Harley wins C.H.P. bid.

[RichM]

Because one brand is inferior?

[OldMotor]

I have noticed that CHP motors riding BMW's always return waves.

 

 

 

Must be a NON- SoCal thing

 

... and a non-centCal thing. I've Very Rarely received a return wave from a CHP Motor.

 

As long as you use all fingers I try to wave back. But sometimes we are talking on the radio or something else and we can't.

[radar564]

Come through the west side of Colorado, look for the Grand Junction officers, we wave, even at those who wave at us with one finger.

[bobiverson]

But sometimes we are talking on the radio or something else and we can't.

 

Ummm, yeah. Now THERE is a good idea.

[radar564]

Still no news.

 

The guys on the west coast must have their hands full. From the postings on this site and others it seems to me the CHP is going out of their to make the evaluation as fair as possible.

 

BY the way, many people within my city government think HD or honda would be "just fine". I told them a wheel gun with speed loaders are just fine as well, but we go not seem to go back to those types of guns, so why settle for what would be "just fine"? Got spoke to about that comment!!

 

[SWB]

BY the way, many people within my city government think HD or honda would be "just fine". I told them a wheel gun with speed loaders are just fine as well, but we go not seem to go back to those types of guns, so why settle for what would be "just fine"? Got spoke to about that comment!!

 

Well, we've gone round and round about the HD versus Beemer versus ??? discussion. But for your "people within my city government", take them to a closed course, show them some of the maneuvers that you're expected to be able to do, and then GIVE THEM THE HELMET AND GLOVES, and suggest they compare handing on the HD and Beemer themselves.

 

But of course, that would be neither safe nor practical, but you might get your point across.

[radar564]

Any news from the west coast group? We made a hughe step foward by having a meeting and a ride with our Mayor. He seems to have a better understanding of our needs and really opened up to the idea of using BMW over any other product on the market at this time. We will know in the nest few days as the bids are in.

[OldMotor]

Not a word. Everything is top secret!

[NewMotor]

Now this is just rumor and speculation like everything else regarding this contract.

 

There was a "cleaning house" at the EVOC motorstaff. New people were installed. Now, miraculously, DGS approved HD for another round of testing. HMMMM Good figure. Install a bunch of Yes Men and retest. Guess we are definately getting HDs.

 

Hey OldMotor,

Ive been hearing alot more of this rumor about the motor staff being replaced. Any word?

 

BTW. still waiting for my replacement motor. Trying to get a runout motor from Motor-T in Torrance. Its being 7 weeks now. Man I miss my motor.

[SWB]

Now this is just rumor and speculation like everything else regarding this contract.

 

There was a "cleaning house" at the EVOC motorstaff. New people were installed. Now, miraculously, DGS approved HD for another round of testing. HMMMM Good figure. Install a bunch of Yes Men and retest. Guess we are definately getting HDs.

 

Hey OldMotor,

Ive been hearing alot more of this rumor about the motor staff being replaced. Any word?

 

BTW. still waiting for my replacement motor. Trying to get a runout motor from Motor-T in Torrance. Its being 7 weeks now. Man I miss my motor.

 

7 weeks? Wow, you may have to go back for retraining if you're off your motor any longer.

 

Heck, I'd loan ya my civilianized RTP if I hadn't already removed all the "extra" toys. Hope they CHP gets ya back on the road again soon.

[NewMotor]

Well thats how ridiculous this contact is. We have requested that an old 2000 RTP with the square light, with over 60K miles, be brought out of mothballs and put back into service. Its kinda BS that there are other areas that have 5-6 bikes sitting with no riders and they will not loan them out to other areas. Captians are reluctant to loan out the bikes because they are afraid that they will not get it back. Im ready to work on my motor. I produce numbers and help the public and Im stuck on in a car.

 

Sorry. Just ranting. Im getting a little upset. LOL

[OldMotor]

No, there has been no house cleaning at the academy. Same staff. I think the rumors of a house cleaning is if anything a threat that if they talk about the testing process.

 

Reps from BMW say it's a done deal that H.D. is out of it and that the contract will go back out for bid. I still think this is all rumor. We will just have to wait and see how it plays out.

 

Even if BMW or H.D. got the contract today and their bike passed the tests, it would be 2-3 months before we get any new bikes.

 

At least you have a.c. in that car.

[Deans BMW]

I produce numbers and help the public and Im stuck on in a car.

 

The part of your quote that says, "I produce numbers" is very disconcerting, explain please.

[NewMotor]

Sure no problem. By me saying I produce numbers, I meant that I do my job. I write tickets. I assist people on the side of the road that need help. I respond to the accidents and document them. I arrest DUI drivers and put them in jail. All these activities are documented and tabulated by our department. I get paid for 8 hours so I put in 8 hours of work. I take pride in my work ethic.

 

If you are indirectly refering to a quota then I can tell you that it is against California law for a police department to require thier officers to meet a prescribed number of tickets.

[onedae]

Thanks for the response - and keep up the good work. By the way, as both a HD and BMW rider, there is no doubt in my mind that the RT is a far superior machine for CHP duty. Maybe not for big city duty, but certainly for freeway type of service. It seems absurd that the selection process is as burdensome and apparently political as it is but I guess the big $ involved make it so.

[NEOHMark]

If you are indirectly refering to a quota then I can tell you that it is against California law for a police department to require thier officers to meet a prescribed number of tickets.

 

Yeah - but is there no subtle, unwritten, covert influence being pushed upon officers to 'produce'? Or are the swarms of speed traps around here that seem to pop up magically on/around the 28th/29th of every month just my imagination?

 

At least in OH, that's the case.

[bakerzdosen]

If you are indirectly refering to a quota then I can tell you that it is against California law for a police department to require thier officers to meet a prescribed number of tickets.

 

Yeah - but is there no subtle, unwritten, covert influence being pushed upon officers to 'produce'? Or are the swarms of speed traps around here that seem to pop up magically on/around the 28th/29th of every month just my imagination?

 

At least in OH, that's the case.

I asked this question at a traffic school (yeah yeah yeah...) here in UT and the officer had perhaps the best answer I've heard on the matter. He something along the lines of:

"While there is no "quota" per se, as with basically any job in this country, you can't expect to keep your job if you don't produce some kind of results." We as taxpayers aren't employing LEOs to just roll around and make us feel safer - although if you're receiving a ticket, you probably wish that wasn't the case at that very moment.

 

Having said that, I was at traffic school because I "rolled" a stop sign on New Years Eve (aka the 31st) at 6pm. There was a lot of ice/snow on the road, so I actually slid through. Hence the question.

[NEOHMark]

We as taxpayers aren't employing LEOs to just roll around and make us feel safer

 

Quite frankly, I think they'd do MORE for public safety if they 'rolled' more and 'trapped' less. Any aggressive driver with a decent set of eyes and a radar detective can breeze through a speed trap like a good little schoolboy - and then start up the NASCAR 'Chase' again a mile down the road.

 

If they (LEOs) are out and about in decent numbers in the traffic flow, there just might be a few less 'Dale Jrs.' on the freeways. JMHO of course.

[DiggerJim]

If you are indirectly refering to a quota then I can tell you that it is against California law for a police department to require thier officers to meet a prescribed number of tickets.

That's not quite the same as saying "we do not have quotas, specific or suggested". Do they keep track of tickets issued by each officer? Do they publish in any form (like your annual job evaluation) the numbers you achieve vs. averages or other officers?

 

There's an old management maxim that you only get what you measure and an old employee one that you'll only get from me what you reward me for.

 

Jim

[AdventurePoser]

Sure no problem. By me saying I produce numbers, I meant that I do my job. I write tickets. I assist people on the side of the road that need help. I respond to the accidents and document them. I arrest DUI drivers and put them in jail. All these activities are documented and tabulated by our department. I get paid for 8 hours so I put in 8 hours of work. I take pride in my work ethic.

 

If you are indirectly refering to a quota then I can tell you that it is against California law for a police department to require thier officers to meet a prescribed number of tickets.

 

In the department I worked for, we didn't have quotas per se, but one year I did issue enough cites to qualify for a microwave oven...

 

Steve in So Cal

[PRC]

I got a toaster once!

[Warren_H]

The Ventura, CA PD is riding R12RTPs, saw one today doing 90MPH on the freeway, in pursuit of fun.

[upflying]

 

If you are indirectly refering to a quota then I can tell you that it is against California law for a police department to require thier officers to meet a prescribed number of tickets.

 

A few years ago, the lieutenant told us motor grunts he had a "performance expectation" of 120 tickets a month from each of us. I challenged the expectation and told him that it sounded like a ticket quota. Naturally it didn't get too far. Some wrote more and some wrote less with no consequences.

[motorman587]

 

If you are indirectly refering to a quota then I can tell you that it is against California law for a police department to require thier officers to meet a prescribed number of tickets.

 

A few years ago, the lieutenant told us motor grunts he had a "performance expectation" of 120 tickets a month from each of us. I challenged the expectation and told him that it sounded like a ticket quota. Naturally it didn't get too far. Some wrote more and some wrote less with no consequences.

 

Ya, but be the guy that writes the least amount of tickets on the squad. See what happens.

[Pilgrim]

 

If you are indirectly refering to a quota then I can tell you that it is against California law for a police department to require thier officers to meet a prescribed number of tickets.

 

A few years ago, the lieutenant told us motor grunts he had a "performance expectation" of 120 tickets a month from each of us. I challenged the expectation and told him that it sounded like a ticket quota. Naturally it didn't get too far. Some wrote more and some wrote less with no consequences.

 

Ya, but be the guy that writes the least amount of tickets on the squad. See what happens.

 

Sorta like running away from a bear, huh? You don't have to be fastest, but you sure don't want to be slowest.

Pilgrim

[motorman587]

 

If you are indirectly refering to a quota then I can tell you that it is against California law for a police department to require thier officers to meet a prescribed number of tickets.

 

A few years ago, the lieutenant told us motor grunts he had a "performance expectation" of 120 tickets a month from each of us. I challenged the expectation and told him that it sounded like a ticket quota. Naturally it didn't get too far. Some wrote more and some wrote less with no consequences.

 

Ya, but be the guy that writes the least amount of tickets on the squad. See what happens.

 

Sorta like running away from a bear, huh? You don't have to be fastest, but you sure don't want to be slowest.

Pilgrim

 

Yup, but I have found out, getting older, that being in the middle is tough too. These young bucks can stoke out some tickets and there is no ticket count. They do it for fun. Crap.

[SWB]

re: ticket's and quota's

 

Obviously, there's a relationship between funding for the motor's and the tickets, directly or indirectly. I've seen that cited by local PD's when requesting funding for motor units. It's not an unreasonable expectation that the "average motor officer will write an average of ### tickets a year, ## percent of which comes back to the department, providing $### revenue..". However, that's on the BUDGETING , not the enforcement side of government.

 

I think that motor officers ought to have a quota, because as one member here mentioned, you reward the desired behavior, and just like any other job, there ought to be metrics involved. It not only provides supervisors a guideline but also provides the officers with goals of what "good performance" means.

 

However, I think the quota ought to be based upon the number of "vehicle stops", rather than tickets issued. I know that officers record every stop in detail in their logs, so the "quota" could be something like one-half to a dozen stops per day, including tickets, safety stops, warnings, and security checks or calls. If, for example, an officer writes only one ticket a day, but makes 24 total stops giving warnings, writing "fix it" tickets, and so forth, he's working pretty hard in behalf of public safety, in my opinion.

[radar564]

The youg guys on our team tried but can not keep up with the olds guys or "dinosaur" as many of these young officers lilke to call us. I then remind them that someday they will be like me, old, that is if they stay with it, HA HA HA

 

Throw down a challenge only to be humbled by an "old guy" someday they will learn. May not be much a victory but staying in the Key Hole or 18 foot circle for 8 times around and then exiting compared to that of 4 times by the new motorguy. A little dizzy afterwards, but the new motor officer had to curtsy after that challenge.

 

We challenge each other on ridding skill, not on the street as someone could get hurt trying to do too much for that one extra summons.

 

By the way 1200RTP on order and on the way!!!!!

[motorman587]

The youg guys on our team tried but can not keep up with the olds guys or "dinosaur" as many of these young officers lilke to call us. I then remind them that someday they will be like me, old, that is if they stay with it, HA HA HA

 

Throw down a challenge only to be humbled by an "old guy" someday they will learn. May not be much a victory but staying in the Key Hole or 18 foot circle for 8 times around and then exiting compared to that of 4 times by the new motorguy. A little dizzy afterwards, but the new motor officer had to curtsy after that challenge.

 

We challenge each other on ridding skill, not on the street as someone could get hurt trying to do too much for that one extra summons.

 

By the way 1200RTP on order and on the way!!!!!

 

That is why I like going to these rodeos. Puts the young bucks in the place. Keeps me on my toes.

[motorman587]

re: ticket's and quota's

 

Obviously, there's a relationship between funding for the motor's and the tickets, directly or indirectly. I've seen that cited by local PD's when requesting funding for motor units. It's not an unreasonable expectation that the "average motor officer will write an average of ### tickets a year, ## percent of which comes back to the department, providing $### revenue..". However, that's on the BUDGETING , not the enforcement side of government.

 

I think that motor officers ought to have a quota, because as one member here mentioned, you reward the desired behavior, and just like any other job, there ought to be metrics involved. It not only provides supervisors a guideline but also provides the officers with goals of what "good performance" means.

 

However, I think the quota ought to be based upon the number of "vehicle stops", rather than tickets issued. I know that officers record every stop in detail in their logs, so the "quota" could be something like one-half to a dozen stops per day, including tickets, safety stops, warnings, and security checks or calls. If, for example, an officer writes only one ticket a day, but makes 24 total stops giving warnings, writing "fix it" tickets, and so forth, he's working pretty hard in behalf of public safety, in my opinion.

 

First our city does not get any money from tickets we write. Our city makes money for their utility plant that they own and run. Know the couty makes money and the state, but the city cops write for tickets. County guys do write tickets because it ticks off the votes for the Sheriff. Go figure.

 

I just go my yearly evaulation and there was nothing about ticket writing. I was told behind close doors that my ticket count was down, but I do a lot of other duties, being the senior motor guy, so it does not bother me. Just makes work a little harder.

[Motor Po-Po]

At the same time, though, if we have one of our newer guys go crazy and write a ton more than the rest of us, we tighten him up a bit and get him more in line with what the rest of us do per day. Senior Motors can have a lot of influence on the new motors !

[motorman587]

Our unit is made up with different motor positions. They are motors, but they may be assigned to an agressive driving position, which means they have to stroke out tickets for the grant to stay affective. They also have "ticket printers" in the cars they have assigned also. So if they get behind in numbers, they hop in cars and continue to do damage.

 

Me, however, am also a THI investigator, no ticket printer and get all the other "duties" my supervisor gives that may be to much involved for the younger guys. Which is do big deal, just do not rub it in when my numbers are not with rookies.

 

I do try to tell the new guys to "pace" yourself or you will get burn out. People recieving citations are nasty and rude. Out of 10 stops, about 5 are just plain nasty. I know that getting a $100++ is the greastest, yes I know I picked this line work, but you do not have jerk the pen out my hand, get off the phone, do not tell me, I hope you met your quota, leave before my foots clears underneath your car, spin tires, turn down the music, have your passengers tell my I am wrong.

 

But I love my job.

[PRC]

Know the couty makes money and the state, but the city cops write for tickets. County guys do write tickets because it ticks off the votes for the Sheriff. Go figure.

 

 

John, I love big guy. You know I do and how I stand on a lot of things, but.....The money from the citations us "county" guys write goes to to fund the court system. This changed two years ago. You failed to tell folks about the 187 money you used to get for your retirement. As for stroking ticket to make the Sheriff mad, well that's just not true. He is the president of the Sheriff's association and they just backed the recent DUI wave. He doesn't care how many someone writes, just that they are quality tickets....not 9 MPH over or the like. We use common sense when we write. I stop you for speeding, Ilook for something else to write (i.e.- registration, insurance, seat belt, etc..) so instead of a wickedly unreasonable fine (set by the state and local gov's) of $185.50 for 15 over, I'll try to write the $12 go show your registration or insurance (dismissal fee) or the more reasonable $76.50 seat belt violation. We in green don't like bust people's cajones.

 

** For those of you unfamiliar, Florida had a program in place for many years where if a ticket was written within city limits (FS 316 .187), the city would get 75% of the ticket revenue to be set aside of retirement funds in addition to regular retirement payouts. Knew a guy at Coral Gables PD in Miami that got a check for 850K when he was done at 25 years.

[Agent_Orange]

Sweet. Sounds better than a five year drop or a payout.

[radar564]

Can that program be brought to my state? Get a check at retirment based upon the dollar figure raised writting summonses? Sounds a little fishy to me. Does this really take place in Fl. or is this just a stretch?

[PRC]

Can that program be brought to my state? Get a check at retirment based upon the dollar figure raised writting summonses? Sounds a little fishy to me. Does this really take place in Fl. or is this just a stretch?

 

Really happened....however, that program has ended. And yes, it's better then the drop (6 more years!) but I doubt I'll do that...but then again....

[motorman587]

Know the couty makes money and the state, but the city cops write for tickets. County guys do write tickets because it ticks off the votes for the Sheriff. Go figure.

 

 

John, I love big guy. You know I do and how I stand on a lot of things, but.....The money from the citations us "county" guys write goes to to fund the court system. This changed two years ago. You failed to tell folks about the 187 money you used to get for your retirement. As for stroking ticket to make the Sheriff mad, well that's just not true. He is the president of the Sheriff's association and they just backed the recent DUI wave. He doesn't care how many someone writes, just that they are quality tickets....not 9 MPH over or the like. We use common sense when we write. I stop you for speeding, Ilook for something else to write (i.e.- registration, insurance, seat belt, etc..) so instead of a wickedly unreasonable fine (set by the state and local gov's) of $185.50 for 15 over, I'll try to write the $12 go show your registration or insurance (dismissal fee) or the more reasonable $76.50 seat belt violation. We in green don't like bust people's cajones.

 

** For those of you unfamiliar, Florida had a program in place for many years where if a ticket was written within city limits (FS 316 .187), the city would get 75% of the ticket revenue to be set aside of retirement funds in addition to regular retirement payouts. Knew a guy at Coral Gables PD in Miami that got a check for 850K when he was done at 25 years.

 

Pete, I have know you too long to get in a debate like this. I will not address, just kick your ass when I see you, Love John Motormen rock

[motorman587]

Green sucks.

[motorman587]

Pete you know I am just kidding, love John

[Motor Po-Po]

I just tell them "4 more tickets and I get a toaster."

[PRC]

I just tell them "4 more tickets and I get a toaster."

 

Heck with the toaster, I want the Big Screen TV!

 

John, you da man...me lub ya long time round eye.

[upflying]

Well enough of the ticket quota hijack stuff. I heard from a reliable source today that the CHP motor instructor evaluation staff at the academy still don't know what is going with the bid.

They DO know that they keep finding problems and issues with the Harley test bikes and Harley is allowed to correct and repair the problems without fear of losing the bid to the next bidder. They do know this is unprecidented and any other manufacturer who provides test motorcycles that fail any portion of the test would have been history and adios long ago.

What CHP staff also knows is that the current fleet of 1150RT-P's are far exceeding their mandatory 60,000 mile retirement mileage because of the delay in getting HD to pass the tests.

It just confirms once again that politics decides what motorcycle the officers will be riding.

[motorman587]

Green sucks.

 

First sorry for the hijack

Second sorry for the qoute above. Stupid Stupid stupid on my part.

Third can Califoria not make up there minds????

[Ken H.]

Well enough of the ticket quota hijack stuff. I heard from a reliable source today that the CHP motor instructor evaluation staff at the academy still don't know what is going with the bid.

They DO know that they keep finding problems and issues with the Harley test bikes and Harley is allowed to correct and repair the problems without fear of losing the bid to the next bidder. They do know this is unprecidented and any other manufacturer who provides test motorcycles that fail any portion of the test would have been history and adios long ago.

What CHP staff also knows is that the current fleet of 1150RT-P's are far exceeding their mandatory 60,000 mile retirement mileage because of the delay in getting HD to pass the tests.

It just confirms once again that politics decides what motorcycle the officers will be riding.

Incredible. At the rate they're going, they'll have 60,000 on the HD test bikes!

[NewMotor]

Third can Califoria not make up there minds????

 

Yes we have! We want the R1200RTP!!! Ive heard the same as above. I have been told by our union area rep, as told by the state union rep, that he was sworn to secrecy but all that he could say was, There is no end in sight.

 

BTW I am also guilty of the hijack but I am also a victim of this HD debacle.

 

Also. After 2 months in a patrol car, I finally got a motor to ride. Its a 2003 R1150RTP. I got it from another CHP office. It has 65K miles on it. At 60K the motor and tranny were replaced. It could have 90K miles, I DONT CARE. It has two wheels, a radio, lights and its a BMW.

[Deans BMW]

Why don't your Union go to bat for BMW's strictly on the safety issue. The Boxer Beemers are the safest M/C on the road as the cylinders are for all practable purposes an industructable safety bar proceting your legs from any type of side impact and a low side as well. Study how exposed your legs are on a Harley. If I were riding a bike daily in traffic in an inforcement situation, I would want the safest. Remember the big hub bub over gas tanks in the Ford sedan patrol cars some time ago. Why do you wear bullet proof vests, etc. I think that your union could make a good argument for the Beemers, after all aren't they supposed to represent you guys.

[James Clark]

Well enough of the ticket quota hijack stuff. I heard from a reliable source today that the CHP motor instructor evaluation staff at the academy still don't know what is going with the bid.

They DO know that they keep finding problems and issues with the Harley test bikes and Harley is allowed to correct and repair the problems without fear of losing the bid to the next bidder. They do know this is unprecidented and any other manufacturer who provides test motorcycles that fail any portion of the test would have been history and adios long ago.

 

 

Harley didn't create the procedure. Complain to the state.

 

You don't think the new, convoluted procedure was related to the 3 month delay in getting the R1200RTP to market, do you?

[motorman587]

I tried with our department and they said, Mercedes is the safest car out there and you do not see cops driving Mercedes.

[Agent_Orange]

Methinks Princess Di and a few others would argue the point: if able.

[tallman]