Harley wins C.H.P. bid.

[ben1364]

Can anyone confirm who (which company) won the CHP contract?

[tgrrdr]

Can anyone confirm who (which company) won the CHP contract?

 

There was an article in Sunday's SF Chron about agencies evaluating the Honda ST1300P. (link)

 

SFChronicle 5/7/06 Around California, several departments are either evaluating the new Honda or have already bought a few. The CHP, which uses its 518 motorcycles mainly in urban areas, says for now it will continue with the BMW R1150RT-P.

[SWB]

It's kind of interesting that the article said R1150RTP's, not R1200RTP's. I had speculated that the existing contract between CHP and BMW (which I had linked to) extended beyond the current year. I was wondering if BMW had any remaining capacity to produce a R1150RTP, or if BMW had to offer the R1200RTP at the R1150 contract price. The R1150RTP at the contract price would be a bargain over the new prices of the the R1200RTP, or even the Honda ST.

 

It might be a good short term financial decision for California to simply purchase another 500 R1150RTP's for three more years under the current contract.

[James Clark]

 

It might be a good short term financial decision for California to simply purchase another 500 R1150RTP's for three more years under the current contract.

 

Allegedly, there is no current contract. They are talking about keeping the existing bikes in service for the time being.

[SWB]

 

It might be a good short term financial decision for California to simply purchase another 500 R1150RTP's for three more years under the current contract.

 

Allegedly, there is no current contract. They are talking about keeping the existing bikes in service for the time being.

 

True. I misspoke. There WAS a contract in effect through 4/30/2006.

 

Any contractual leverage the CA CHP had over BMW was lost on the first day of May. All bets are (apparently) now off.

 

However, if the CHP LEO's are willing to ride 3 year old bikes with 60K plus miles on them over a pretty new Harley or Honda, they must either REALLY LIKE their Beemers, or really hate the alternatives.

[leikam]

if the CHP LEO's are willing to ride 3 year old bikes with 60K plus miles on them over a pretty new Harley or Honda, they must either REALLY LIKE their Beemers, or really hate the alternatives.

 

Of course it's not that simple. First off, the motors aren't the ones deciding what to ride so how they feel about it is mostly irrelevant. Secondly, what choice do they have? There aren't any shiny new bikes in the motor pool so the alternative is not riding at all. This situation is also not a vote for the status quo. The procurement process will end up getting new bikes to the officers. It's just unclear when that will be or what will arrive.

[Deans BMW]

The current noises are that HD is trying to angle a re bid and it might happen due to the economic conditions. This story is not over..................

[Roadwolf]

Well, that would indeed be a good move for the CHP if that is so. The ST1300 is an excellent choice for an authority bike. Here in SC, the highway patrol reportedly is using a few in their fleet as well. I am sure that with the budget crisis that California is in, the ST would be the smartest choice as it pretty much bullet proof and maintenance would be minimal compared to a Harley or especially the RTs.

 

Wonder when the decision comes down?

[tgrrdr]

Wonder when the decision comes down?

 

Every year in January the Governor releases his budget and he revises it in May. I suspect if you know where to look you could figure out if there was any money proposed for new bikes. If the recent past is any indication the budget won't be approved until August or September, so no new bikes until the fall (unless the money was allocated last fiscal year).

[James Clark]

There WAS a contract in effect through 4/30/2006.

 

 

That contract was terminated last year amid accusations of an improper business relationship between the contracted dealer and a DGS employee.

[Roadwolf]

Also, posted here are pictures of some STs in action in a Police Competition. Pretty cool.

[SWB]

There WAS a contract in effect through 4/30/2006.

 

 

That contract was terminated last year amid accusations of an improper business relationship between the contracted dealer and a DGS employee.

 

Between A&S BMW and a state employee? Wow! That's good gossip, and the first I've heard about it. Any sources on that?

 

If it was terminated last year, I guess that means that the current CHP bikes are now 1 year and 1,000's of miles past their regular turn in date. Maybe we'll find out just how reliable these bikes are when they start hitting the 100K mile and beyond marks in official duty.

 

And in regard to the other post (by leikam):

 

Of course it's not that simple. First off, the motors aren't the ones deciding what to ride ... The procurement process will end up getting new bikes to the officers. It's just unclear when that will be or what will arrive.

 

It was a tongue-in-cheek comment about the CHP LEO's preferring the Beemers. I was a Navy (USA Federal gov't) Contracting Officer in an earlier life, so I'm well aware of how government procurement works. But I also know that the rank and file will make their preferences known. If HD had gotten their new "Phoenix" into flight successfully, the state might have been able to force the bike on unhappy LEO's - they are after all, state employees. But every problem and difficulty provides an opportunity to dump an unpopular choice.

 

As for HD trying for a "redo", I'd think that'd cause a whole lot of law suits. Particularly so, if the terms of the RFP change to favor HD. Nothing demonstrates bias towards one supplier more than to resubmit the RFQ/RFP over and over again until the "best" source (HD) finally wins.

 

That used to be SOP in the Navy. The ranks would fall in love with a particular widget from a particular supplier, and write the RFP requirements in such a way that all but one supplier failed to qualify. Then the procurement became a legally justified "sole source" contract.

 

Somehow, no matter how much Arnold want's his HD's or the state wants to "buy American", I can't believe that such RFP changes would pass without law suits from competing manufacturers, and particularly, Honda. Unless BMW drops the prices on the R1200RTP's, I'd think the market is ripe for Honda to pluck, if they truly want the Authority Moto business. Honda could produce a competitive product (the ST1300ABS) for $4000 to $5000 less than the BMW's, which would be light years better than the HD, even though I myself (were I a CHP LEO) would prefer the BMW.

[James Clark]

Between A&S BMW and a state employee? Wow! That's good gossip, and the first I've heard about it. Any sources on that?

 

http://www.sacbee.com/content/politics/story/13351136p-14192941c.html

[SWB]

Thanks! Good info.

[James Clark]

This is my favorite quote:

 

--------------------------

 

In the most recent contract in 2004, he said, he was called in to deal with problems in the contract and talked to potential bidders. He said he found that the motorcycles sold by the Roseville dealership did not comply with the proposed CHP bid specifications.

 

After they were rewritten and A&S BMW Motorcycles put in the lowest bid, he said, he was asked to make sure the bid complied with the specifications.

 

--------------------------

 

I would love to see how the CHP quantified their "stability" standards or whether the centerstand specs required a wheel to be lofted as some PDs just use the factory "display stand".

 

[Motorfiveo]

I was out in Sac a few months ago and I was told the ST1300 didn't pass the CHP tire retention (aka run flat) test and was excluded.

[Street Tracker]

I was out in Sac a few months ago and I was told the ST1300 didn't pass the CHP tire retention (aka run flat) test and was excluded.

 

Interesting... I just spoke with one of my Honda contacts (who is involved with the proposal) and he has not been told anything about this. Now, BMW's out due to the previously mentioned "conflict of interest" issue and Harley can't get a bike to pass: should be interesting once the real story comes out.

[James Clark]

I was out in Sac a few months ago and I was told the ST1300 didn't pass the CHP tire retention (aka run flat) test and was excluded.

 

Interesting... I just spoke with one of my Honda contacts (who is involved with the proposal) and he has not been told anything about this. Now, BMW's out due to the previously mentioned "conflict of interest" issue and Harley can't get a bike to pass: should be interesting once the real story comes out.

 

The scapegoat who informed the CHP that their specifications excluded BMW was fired by the state.

[upflying]

The latest rumor I heard is the state of California is sticking with the Harley bid. The Harley's will be equipped with the 103 cubic inch Screaming Eagle motor and will have the high speed stability problems as standard equipment.

The rumor also included information that politics was the deciding factor on which bike to buy.

There has been much secrecy and security lately around the CHP motor test area in West Sacramento.

[ESokoloff]

The latest rumor I heard is the state of California is sticking with the Harley bid. The Harley's will be equipped with the 103 cubic inch Screaming Eagle motor and will have the high speed stability problems as standard equipment.

The rumor also included information that politics was the deciding factor on which bike to buy.

There has been much secrecy and security lately around the CHP motor test area in West Sacramento.

 

Bob, to quote your sig. line......

"Anticipate the unexpected and nothing will surprise you."

[SWB]

The rumor also included information that politics was the deciding factor on which bike to buy.

 

Oh my gosh? Politics? "Fixed" procurements? In Kalifornia?

 

That's SOP, for as long as I've lived in California. And, I've worked in federal, state, and local government agencies, both inside and out (i.e. contractor). Nothing surprises me.

 

I have no problem with the state buying American. But looking at Yamaha, Honda, BMW, and Harley, I feel HD is the least appropriate mount for the CHP. God forbid, we lose a half dozen officers plus dozens more injured, in the first year with the HD's. What will the "politics" say then? "Safety stand down" time, with more training to follow?

 

Actions have consequences. Picking HD when it doesn't meet the terms of the RFP, will have consequences.

[OldMtr]

The CHP never tested the Honda. Honda management and CHP legal could not come to agreement on the contract to test the bike. Problems with liability issues.

 

Several local PD's around Sacramento tested the Honda and most like it a lot.

[SWB]

Welcome to the forum, OldMotor!

[James Clark]

. . . politics was the deciding factor . . .

 

 

"Lousy Democrats!"

[James Clark]

On a kinda, sorta, related note . . .

 

 

http://www.sacbee.com/content/news/story/14266683p-15078602c.html

 

Check out some of the reader comments. (Do a text search for "discontinued" after clicking on "View All Comments".)

 

May require registration - although Google has dropped the notification. If so, I recommend BugMeNot.

[SWB]

The contract was signed after what state officials described as a round of competitive bidding overseen by the Department of General Services.

 

Yet there was nothing competitive about the bidding, according to memos and bid documents obtained under the state Public Records Act.

 

A rush to quickly fill the holsters of new recruits may have been the reason why the CHP wanted Smith & Wesson.

 

Assistant CHP Commissioner Kevin Green said his agency was running out of older 4006 duty pistols. The Highway Patrol had fewer than 200 in stock, with more recruits ready to graduate from the academy, Green said.

 

CHP administrators said they believed they didn't have time to run a formal evaluation process involving several competing guns.

 

"If we had done a study, it would have taken several months to complete," Green said.

 

Yep, that's my state and their efficient bureaucrats. "Oh my gosh, the handgun cupboard is 'suddenly' bare! We need more handguns. Quick, go buy 9700 new ones for $6.6M US (i.e. $680.00 a piece!). We don't have time to listen to any other bids that might save us maybe 33%, or a couple of million dollars."

 

Option "b", if a FEDERAL Contracting Officer was running the bid (it's in my background): "Quick, go let an RFQ for a 30 day turn around, specify a limited selection list of the miltary or police standard weapons now in use, i.e. Glock, Sig, S&W, Beretta, etc., for a maximum of 1000 handguns, or $600,000. Take bids from all comers, and then qualify the bidders for their ability to ensure delivery of 200 handguns within 10 days, and the balance within 60 days after the ink on the contract is dry. Then get to work with the CHP to let a parallel 18 month RFP for studies, testing, qualifying bid rounds, and final delivery of 9700 handguns. Stipulate delivery of 1000 handguns up front, and a varied delivery schedule for the balance over five years. When the first shipment of handguns arrive, replace the "stopgap" handguns with the new ones, and offer the "stopgap" handguns for sale to (a) CHP officers, (b) local state agencies, or © any police agency in the US at 2/3's the original purchase price - liquidate them from the CHP inventory."

 

Savings: At least $2,000,000.

Delivery: Within 75 days from the date of my signature (and less, if the CHP really needed it)

 

Umm ... not in Kalifornia. Arnie and Commissioner Mike have an "S&W" image in their mind's eye, so that's what they're going to buy. (Plus, S&W has been the most "anti-gun" lobby friendly; surely that couldn't be a reason for picking S&W via sole-source... naw... Or maybe it was just "buy American - at whatever the cost!").

 

This stuff is SO transparent.

 

Then there the argument of: "If I'm a CHP LEO on patrol in the San Bernardino area, Riverside, or central valley area, where there's no one around for 30 miles, DO I WANT a .40 cal peashooter on my hip?" Hey, I own one, and they're probably a bit better than a 9MM for knock down power, but a .40 cal for CHP duty? My preference would be a .357 for highway use, and .45 cal for urban use, and IF I were a LEO, I'd sort of like my choice of sidearm - within reason. It's a PERSONAL self-defense weapon. I don't need Arnie directing the contract for my sidearm to the most "anti-gun lobby friendly" gun company as a sop for "thinking the right way" on "gun safety".

 

Anyway .... don't get me started.

 

</end off-topic rant>

 

And returning to our current topic, from everything we've heard about the CHP motorcycle contract, it's heading down the same political road as the gun contract. Not that I'm bragging about federal contract regulations, but that's one reason they have them, to prevent endless lawsuits and years of delay everytime a multi-$million dollar and higher contract is awarded. I've dealt with both the State of CA and County of San Diego contractually (directly and/or indirectly), and both systems are a joke. There's so much arbitrary, politically influenced decision-making going on in the awards that for private businesses, it matters more which politicians you know and whose campaign wheels you grease, then on the quality or value of the services or goods you provide.

 

< /end second rant>

[James Clark]

But we're getting a "closeout price" on the S&W!!!

[NewMotor]

Ive been lurking for a long time waiting for this debacle to end. Any news regarding the contract?

[OldMotor]

The only "new news" that I have heard, is that the HD has been re-tested by Academy staff. Still no "new news". Everything is still being kept secret.

[radar564]

I have tried, but no one is talking. They were suppose to be done by mid July with the testing.

[NewMotor]

Now this is just rumor and speculation like everything else regarding this contract.

 

There was a "cleaning house" at the EVOC motorstaff. New people were installed. Now, miraculously, DGS approved HD for another round of testing. HMMMM Good figure. Install a bunch of Yes Men and retest. Guess we are definately getting HDs.

[ESokoloff]

 

Now, miraculously, DGS approved HD for another round of testing. HMMMM Good figure. Install a bunch of Yes Men and retest. Guess we are definately getting HDs.

 

Figures don't lie but liars figure

[OldMotor]

Have not heard about any cleaning house going on. I'll find out in the morning.

[radar564]

Keep us posted. At my agency, we ride BMW's and are involved in a "slight" disagreement with the HD dealer who wants to put us back on HD's. No one who rides wants to switch brands. Our HD dealer keeps throwing out the fact the CHP has made the switch and are taking delivery of their HD's.

[Motor Po-Po]

If HD was serious, they would make a dedicated police bike using the liquid-cooled V-Rod motor with ABS and a large fuel tank in a cop-designed frame ... I'm not up to speed with that engine's reliability but it seems to me that Kawasaki was able to keep a strangle-hold on the market for years and if I was HD, I would shoot for that kind of market domination. Of course there are going to be many CHP motors that are not going to be happy handing over the keys to their BMWs for Harleys ... at least in this part of California. They already have a good market share with their current police bikes.

[dwb]

On Saturday I watched a San Diego County Sheriff Deputy (in civvies) take delivery of first R1200RTP from BMWNC. It’s a very impressive, well-integrated package which includs a dazzling array of lights plus other enforcement goodies. I want one but I’m told I don’t qualify.

[OldMotor]

I've asked around and have been unable to confirm that anyone has left the academy staff. I think it's a rumor floating around. Apparently, HD is pretty upset at some of the instructors who tested their bike and seem to think that they have a bias towards HD.

 

From what I understand the second testing of Harleys has already finished. Do not know the outcome yet, but I think I will know in the next two days. Apparently head cams on the motors and patrol cars following the bikes were used with dash cams mounted.

[OldMotor]

The CHP is not taking delivery of any bikes yet. Regardless of who ends up with the contract, it is still at least three months out before any bikes can be delivered. Sounds like the HD rep. is a little premature.

[NewMotor]

Re: San Diego Sherriff R1200RTP

 

I saw that same motor 2 weeks ago before they put on the Code3 lights. It was an awesome looking motor. The owner of NorthCounty BMW was a little miffed that I was sitting on the bike. Nice guy though.

[NewMotor]

The CHP is not taking delivery of any bikes yet. Regardless of who ends up with the contract, it is still at least three months out before any bikes can be delivered. Sounds like the HD rep. is a little premature.

 

Thats too bad. I had my motor taken out last week and I am anxiously waiting which bike we are going with. Since there are no new bikes, I am in a car for now. Im not a happy camper.

 

I was stopped on the right shoulder impounding a vehicle. I kicked the kid loose and was waiting for the tow. It was hot, so I took off my helmet and put it on the motor. There was a tree with shade about 30 feet away. I walked over there to get out of the sun. Waiting for about 10 minutes then I hear a "CRUCH" I look up towards the the lanes and see 2 car spinning out of control. I see the van that started the accident skidding towards my parked motor. The van hits the left saddle bag and crash bars and sends my motor up in the air about 4-5 feet in a barrel roll. The motor lands on the ground and strikes the impound vehicle in the rear. 6 vehicles total involved.

 

Estimate to fix my motor: $11,000. I doubt the department is going to fix my motor. Stuck in a shiny box for now until this contract gets fixed. There are no spare motors around that I can use.

 

Oh Well!

[OldMotor]

I think you're living my nightmare. At least you were not on it or standing next to it.

[radar564]

Any news on this yet?

[Coop_Jr]

I was wondering myself

[tallman]

On the right coast,

The Tallahassee Police Department chose to stay with the BMW's

and is ordering new machines.

Motor Unit very happy campers.

[RichM]

I hope BMW wins.

I have noticed that CHP motors riding BMW's always return waves.

 

When they were riding the HD's they would never do that.

[ESokoloff]

I have noticed that CHP motors riding BMW's always return waves.

 

 

 

Must be a NON- SoCal thing

[OldMotor]

Well, there is really no new news on this yet. Noen of the officers at the academy have been replaced. On the last go around of testing HD reps were recording the tests and CHP was recording everything. There is currently no new news. Everyone is still waiting to see how all of this plays out.

[YesMan]

I have noticed that CHP motors riding BMW's always return waves.

 

 

 

Must be a NON- SoCal thing

 

... and a non-centCal thing. I've Very Rarely received a return wave from a CHP Motor.

[RichM]

Redding CHP has two and they both wave, at least when I'm on the RT, they have. Can't say as I have waved at them while in the car or pickup.

Last week while passing through Eugene on I-5, I had a Oregon State Trooper wave my way as I passed him. He was parked behind a bridge, radar gun in one hand and waving with the other. I waved back, then kissed my hand and patted the V-1.

[radar564]

Attempting to buy two more in my town but the hd dealer does not like this. In-fact he was even able to block a side by side evaluation of hd and BMW. One has to ask why?