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Harley wins C.H.P. bid.


OldMotor

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BMW is the leader in technology

 

And it's not just in their bikes, it's in everything they build and design. they aren't afraid of stretching the bounds of mechanical design. ever see the hinge on a 2000 328i trunk lid? it's a beauty of a design in itself. There is so much R&D in being at the top that it's got to be hard not to pass the buck.. continuing to be the leader in technology I'm sure requires the utmost demand from their engineers all the way down to their mechanics.

 

just my 2 cents.. thumbsup.gifsmirk.gif

 

Yeah. I'm sure glad they invented the lubeless clutch spline, hit-or-miss, almost just right fuel injection system, and rebuildable rear end.

thumbsup.gif

Pilgrim

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BMW is the leader in technology

 

And it's not just in their bikes, it's in everything they build and design. they aren't afraid of stretching the bounds of mechanical design. ever see the hinge on a 2000 328i trunk lid? it's a beauty of a design in itself. There is so much R&D in being at the top that it's got to be hard not to pass the buck.. continuing to be the leader in technology I'm sure requires the utmost demand from their engineers all the way down to their mechanics.

 

just my 2 cents.. thumbsup.gifsmirk.gif

 

Yeah. I'm sure glad they invented the lubeless clutch spline, hit-or-miss, almost just right fuel injection system, and rebuildable rear end.

thumbsup.gif

Pilgrim

 

yep, and that too grin.gifthumbsup.gif

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The one important statistic that you non-Harley people overlook is the fact that 95% of all Harley Davidsons ever made are still on the road. (The other 5% eventually made it home!) smile.gif

 

I don't think "on the trailer" or "tucked up in the garage" is the same thing as on the road.

 

Personally I'm hoping Harley start flogging their wares to UK police forces. If they could also extend their technical expertise to speed guns and cameras that would be nice too.

 

I'd certainly sleep easier.

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You right the heated seats and stuff are gadgets, but they were the first.

Intergated brakes and servo are for safety if you read what they are for. Remember Dr. Hurts study has show that people do not like to use the front but the rear brakes so BMW and Honda attempt to help those people. We just are in the middle. Same with the servo, people do not like to squeeze the front brake so the servo helps. The ones that use the front brake hate it.

 

Look at Honda with the air bag. Some think that is a crazy idea. But if you read why it is a very understanding idea. The sudden stop is what kills people not the crash. So the airbag keeps the rider from the sudden stop. Yes, they know you probably come off the motorcycle and hit the ground but the speed will be less than if you had the hit the car at speed.

 

What will BMW come with?

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You right the heated seats and stuff are gadgets, but they were the first.

 

Well, thanks be for that..... Good grief, relax man, we know you like BMWs, quit justifying already!

 

What will BMW come with?

 

Hmmm, higher maintenance, fewer dealerships and decreasing reliability would be my guess, but that's just the experiences I've had in the last year!

 

The more I read of splines, transmissions, rear end failures, surging, ABS failures, electrical issues the more I think about buying a Concours. Now that's a solid, proven technology that hasn't needed to have a new tweak but every 4-5 years that I can find a dealer for most anyplace in the US. smile.gif

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Old Fart wrote about "on trailer or tucked away in Garages"

Let's see. If BMW has had less that 2 percent of bikes sold in the USA and Harley has over 20 percent, then I would say that at any given moment in our Country, there are probably hundreds more Harley's on the road that Beemers, even if there are some in Garages or tucked away. When I am on the road, the ratio I have seen is at least 20 to 1 in favor of Harleys, and in fact if all the bikes I see on the road are counted, then Beemers really count for very little, which is part of the allure. It is nice to be riding around on something uncommon.What is interesting to me is that if the stats came out and Harley only had 1.4 percent of sales here, then boy would the doom and gloom boys be out in force, but when it is BMW who only has 1.4 % then it is not really noticed. I understand that BMW is big in Europe, but "that don't cut no ice here". If they want to compete here, then they are going to have to offer something to us that will make Americans WANT to buy their bikes in large numbers. They haven't come up with the formula yet, so only time will tell if their new bikes have it or not.

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Quit whinning, quit reading and I will quit justifying or you can go ride something else.

 

Whatever John, whatever..... See you in Cedar Key, we can chat more there.

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Quit whinning, quit reading and I will quit justifying or you can go ride something else.

 

Whatever John, whatever..... See you in Cedar Key, we can chat more there.

 

Get on the wrong side of the bed? grin.gif Both my nuts are (go read my v-day post) hurting and you have no sense of humor. grin.gif

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Nah,

I'm in a fine mood, was just waiting for the last of the UPS deliveries to get here so now I can go riding, at least one of us should!

 

Frozen peas man, frozen peas! grin.gif

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BMW is the leader in technology and that is why they have put servo and intergated brakes on their motorcycle. They were the first in 1981 to put ABS on their motorcycles. I sure back then people thought was a stupid idea. Now most motorcycle have ABS.
Actually, most bikes don't have ABS. Most Hondas, Yamahas, Suzukis, Harleys, Kawasakis, Victorys, etc., don't have it.
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butter beans. bro, butter beans. Go ride. bncry.gif You are free.

 

 

Tallman---need one of your visuals here. grin.gif

Uh, Tallman, this would be one of those discretion/valor situations.

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I think about buying a Concours. Now that's a solid, proven technology that hasn't needed to have a new tweak but every 4-5 years that I can find a dealer for most anyplace in the US. smile.gif

 

You will also get (or not get) what you pay for.

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I think about buying a Concours. Now that's a solid, proven technology that hasn't needed to have a new tweak but every 4-5 years that I can find a dealer for most anyplace in the US. smile.gif

 

You will also get (or not get) what you pay for.

 

I don't doubt that, my RT has been a disappointment in most considerations. I had much better hopes for it when I bought it, but it's not been what I expected. I'm shopping a bit more carefully and trying to determine if mine is a lemon or if TADT.

 

I got it used and figured it was a good deal considering the price, but, the amount of things I've had to do with it and contend with (shocks, clutch, transmission input shaft, rear pivot bearings, surging) have been above and beyond what I expected from a bike with only 40,000 miles on it.

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I don't doubt that, my RT has been a disappointment in most considerations. I had much better hopes for it when I bought it, but it's not been what I expected. I'm shopping a bit more carefully and trying to determine if mine is a lemon or if TADT.

 

I got it used and figured it was a good deal considering the price, but, the amount of things I've had to do with it and contend with (shocks, clutch, transmission input shaft, rear pivot bearings, surging) have been above and beyond what I expected from a bike with only 40,000 miles on it.

 

Saying that says VOLUMES.. I can't think of any other make of bike that I would buy with 20,000 miles on it let alone 40K.. I did a ride yesterday with four others.. Honda, Yamaha and two Harleys.. they were taling about ALL the miles they put on their bikes and how HIGH mileage their bikes were, while my GF was stifling a laugh. ALL the bikes were over 5 years but the Yamaha.. NONE had gone over 10K, and they were all boasting how close they were to 2,000 miles for the year.. then I told them about the 2002 with 11,000 miles on it when I bought it this year, and they were SHOCKED,, that bike was ridden HARD, abused even.. then I told them I over doubled that mileage in the last 6 months.. they looked at me like I had lost my mine. Was a fun albeit SLOW ride that day.. my poor bike was chomping at the bit while were riding the twisties at 45MPH..

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Old Fart wrote about "on trailer or tucked away in Garages"

Let's see. If BMW has had less that 2 percent of bikes sold in the USA and Harley has over 20 percent.......

 

I guess this was based on my experience in the UK - relatively speaking those with Harleys tend to be "Owners" and those with BMs tend to be "Riders". Certainly amongst most riders I know the idea of trailering a machine is usually only considered if you've broken your bike.

 

To be honest it doesnt really bother me about how BM does in the US and my own purchasing decisions aren't based on how many units a manufacturer can shift.

 

BMW aint that big a player in the UK - go down the pub and all most "bikers" talk about is relatively new Japanese and italian sporting tackle, these guys would consider a ZX9R a "sports tourer" because it can't keep up with this weeks R1 or Blade. Most have little or no idea of BMs range of bikes and they definitely get confused if I mention my old Panther or Francis-Barnett!

 

You won't hear me extolling the virtues of every new fangled idea that BM has (I hate catalytic converters and evo brakes stopped me purchasing the 1150RT 1200RT and K1200LT) but you'd also find it pretty hard to convince me that Harleys are little more than a triumph of style over substance. Especially if the argument is based on how many are kicking around.

 

To bring things back on topic - I understand that UK police forces used a domestic volume manufacturer (Rover)to supply patrol cars in the past and the seat design was so appalling that they lost a lot of "sick days" and some officers were left with long term problems. Probably another example of the "bean counters" winning out to the detriment of those who had a job to do.

 

Rover probably sold a lot of those cars one way or another.

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Saying that says VOLUMES.. I can't think of any other make of bike that I would buy with 20,000 miles on it let alone 40K.. I did a ride yesterday with four others.. Honda, Yamaha and two Harleys.. they were taling about ALL the miles they put on their bikes and how HIGH mileage their bikes were, while my GF was stifling a laugh. ALL the bikes were over 5 years but the Yamaha.. NONE had gone over 10K, and they were all boasting how close they were to 2,000 miles for the year.. then I told them about the 2002 with 11,000 miles on it when I bought it this year, and they were SHOCKED,, that bike was ridden HARD, abused even.. then I told them I over doubled that mileage in the last 6 months.. they looked at me like I had lost my mine. Was a fun albeit SLOW ride that day.. my poor bike was chomping at the bit while were riding the twisties at 45MPH..

 

I think that times are changing.

I sold a two year old Kawasaki Vulcan with 31,000 miles on it not long after I bought the RT. It was the right thing to do for personal reasons, but I wish I hadn't had to do it.

 

The big cruisers out there are as durable and reliable as any other bike out there, it is more a case of those who prefer to cruise covering fewer miles than those who tour. Neither is inherently more virtuous than the other, just different. I rode the cruiser as much as the RT, I was just looking for some different amenities than the Vulcan had available. Seems that too many on both sides of the equation are unable to accept that.

 

Such is life though.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Just an update. Yesterday Harley delivered an Electra Glide with the 103 engine and an aftermarket center stand. Weather permitting the Academy staff will start testing it this week or next.

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OK, maybe I missed it what is the 103 engine. Is this an up grade that nobody can get??

 

I rode a Road King today through the police course. It really isn't that bad. It was fun, scraping the floorboards etc..........

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The 103 is available to the public and it comes on the Sceaming Eagle standard I think. a friend of mine had it on a limited edition Roadking.

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Just an update. Yesterday Harley delivered an Electra Glide with the 103 engine and an aftermarket center stand. Weather permitting the Academy staff will start testing it this week or next.

 

Latest rumor I heard floating around, however, is that the HD dealer who won the bid now feels that if they have to "build" 103ci Electra Glides, that they can't do it for the price they bid, i.e. they'd lose money on each bike. So whether the bike passes the field test or not, there is still a question as to the possiblity of them being built.

 

Also, do not forget that the CHP uses a VERY complicated radio and radio system. To get the BMW RT-P to meet the radio requirements probably took in excess of $100,000 in R&D costs. Amortize THAT over 400 units and add it to the price.

 

This is all still very much up in the air. The bike may or may not pass. If it doesn't, the state may or may not lower the requirements so that the bike DOES pass. Then the dealer may or may not feel the project is a worthwhile go-ahead. A BMW dealer was second-lowest bid.

 

If one gives any credence to the rumors out there, much still remains to be seen.

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I was checking things out on my rt-p and I noticed extra wireing harnesses that had bmw numbers on them and the plug wires looked a little different. The coil was in a metal shielded enclosure too. I know that tere is alot more added to these bikes than just a few lights. Some is from the factory like the right hand switch with a different use than stock. They added 4 switches and two amplifiers too. Anyone need a couple of free amplifiers?

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I was checking things out on my rt-p and I noticed extra wireing harnesses that had bmw numbers on them and the plug wires looked a little different. The coil was in a metal shielded enclosure too. I know that tere is alot more added to these bikes than just a few lights. Some is from the factory like the right hand switch with a different use than stock. They added 4 switches and two amplifiers too. Anyone need a couple of free amplifiers?

 

<hijack>

Be REAL careful with that coil and plug wire set. That "metal enclosure" is the shielding for the coil, and the coil and shielding are integrated, i.e. that box IS the coil.

 

The replacement price of the coil is something like $300, and the wires are $100 a piece. And ****alert**** the (female) compression nuts on the "Official" (RTP) coil will twist the (male) threaded fittings right out of the coil with not much pressure. The RTP wires don't have conventional rubber caps; the bare wire slides into the coil, and the compression nuts hold it in. I believe that a dealer service guy must have put loctite red on the retaining nuts on my bike, because even with heat on the fitting in a vice (off the coil), I couldn't get that nut off the fitting. And, once the two fittings come out, the rubber insultators inside tend to crumble as well, making the entire coil unusable.

 

All of which is to say that, yes, the coil and wire sets for the RTP are virtually "one-off" components, and REAL expensive to replace. I intended to replace a bad plug wire, but ended up having to replace the coil as well because as I said, the wire retaining nuts were "welded" onto the coil. I went with an after-market Nology coil and wire set to replace mine, creating a bracket to retro fit the Nology coil into the BMW mount. It was a PITA.

 

</end hijack>

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There were three H.D. dealers who all won the bid. Then BMW in second and followed by Honda. The first H.D. dealer from the L.A. area dropped out of the process approximately two to three weeks ago for the reason you stated. The second dealer took the baton and delivered the bike with the 103 engine to the academy yesterday.

 

We will see how it does on all of the tests. The main concerns now are the stability at high speeds due to the type of fairing and the radio test. You are correct BMW invented a system, which I am sure cost a lot of money, to boost the reception of the radio. Prior to this invention there was a long piece of braided wire which ran up and down the frame of the bike. Not high tech, but it did work. If memory serves me last time H.D. had the bid they had a problem with the radio test.

 

All of this is very interesting and it is not over yet. I'm still holding out for the 1200 RTP.

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Thanks, Mike. All I've got is rumor coming in through the CHP who bring their bikes into our shop. To a man, they DEFINITELY don't want HD to get the bid, even though several of them own Harleys as their personal bikes. Most have expressed a desire to stay with the BMW. As one who doesn't own a personal bike said, "all you have to do is get back on one of the old Kawis or Harleys and you understand how much better the Beemer is for what we do out there."

 

A few have expressed an interest in trying the Honda. They like the reduced maintenance schedule. As one also said, "you don't want to be due for service when they start handing out overtime assignments."

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In the US car world it is common practise to offer at least two engines. Usually a six, and then an eight. Harley offers the base engine of 88 c.i. If you want the "95, the dealer builds it for you, and if you want the "103, the dealer builds it for you, or you can buy it from the factory at a tremendous cost increase over the stock bike. Since I would like more power, I am for anything that will induce good old Harley to issue the 103 in their stock bikes as maybe a small price option. Paying over 10K just for a 103 inch engine with a few more chrome do dads just doesn't cut it for me. So, if they win the chp contract with the 103 incher, in my mind that may make my hope that much closer. If they don't ultimately end up with it and BMW gets the various contracts: Good for them, as I really enjoy seeing the boys and girls in the force riding the RT. Win win for me! clap.gif

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I was talking to a CHP officer at A&S when I icked up my bike. He stated that he wanted the honda st1300. He said it was faster than the othe bikes, smooth and more reliable. I personally hope harley gets it so there will be used 103 inchers in a few years at a reduced price for us.

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OK, maybe I missed it what is the 103 engine. Is this an up grade that nobody can get??

 

I rode a Road King today through the police course. It really isn't that bad. It was fun, scraping the floorboards etc..........

It's a 103 cubic inch stroker motor instead of the standard 84 cubic inch engine. It's an expensive option, ($30,000!) How can HD beat BMW in pricing? We will see.

http://www.harley-davidson.com/PR/MOT/CVOP/en/05_FLHTCSE.asp?locale=en_US&bmLocale=en_US

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  • 1 month later...

Mate, it's floundering because the products are not up to scratch compared to those "other" countries products.

 

I have nothing against HD's but the fact is they are mutton dressed up as lamb.

 

I think an American motorcycle cop should be riding an American motorcycle. In fact, I think all U.S. national, state and local government branches should only purchase American made vehicles. I am always amazed that many people who are critical of American made vehicles conveniently forget that the governments of Germany, Japan and Korea actually support their home-based vehicle manufacturers and help them to thrive. Here in America, that seems to have become a foreign idea. No wonder our auto industry is floundering.
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Rumor. Just a rumor. Supposedly the last of the three HD dealers who had the lowest bids pulled out over the weekend.

 

If true, I don't know if it goes to the next lowest bidder (which would be a BMW dealer), if they are going to ask for new bids under the same specs, new bids under different specs, or what. If it does go to the next lowest bidder, I believe they bid it based on 1150RT-P's which were still availabe to order back when the bidding process started. Those are NLA, so it would go to the first BMW dealer who bid the contract based an R1200RT-P's.

 

This was told to me by a CHP officer in our shop today, and I'm sure he got it third hand from someone else who got it third hand.

 

So take it all with a couple of grains of salt. It'll all shake out soon and we'll see what really happened/happens.

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motorman587
Mate, it's floundering because the products are not up to scratch compared to those "other" countries products.

 

I have nothing against HD's but the fact is they are mutton dressed up as lamb.

 

teeth.gifthumbsup.gifteeth.gifthumbsup.gifteeth.gif

 

I think an American motorcycle cop should be riding an American motorcycle. In fact, I think all U.S. national, state and local government branches should only purchase American made vehicles. I am always amazed that many people who are critical of American made vehicles conveniently forget that the governments of Germany, Japan and Korea actually support their home-based vehicle manufacturers and help them to thrive. Here in America, that seems to have become a foreign idea. No wonder our auto industry is floundering.
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Fernando,

That would be the first BMW dealer who could get the R1200 RT-P prices so they could bid.

Our dealer has tried for months to no avail.

We may lose our local authority contracts (3 univerities and 2 law enforcemnet agencies) because we can't get the prices to bid. (insert dopeslap)

Wake up BMWNA. frown.gif

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riding4work
I second that. FRANK STEVENS wake up. bncry.gifbncry.gifbncry.gif BMWNA wake up, come to some rodeos, show that you want to sell. bncry.gifbncry.gifbncry.gif

 

Get'em hooked on a 3 year buy back lease when you know your the only game in town. HD is not serious competition when the 1150rtp cost matched a comp FLHTPI. So wait till HD can't make the grade, then announce your price.

 

 

R1200rtp competition is really Honda's ST1300 but they've sat on their hands to long.

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James Clark
I second that. FRANK STEVENS wake up. bncry.gifbncry.gifbncry.gif BMWNA wake up, come to some rodeos, show that you want to sell. bncry.gifbncry.gifbncry.gif

 

Get'em hooked on a 3 year buy back lease when you know your the only game in town. HD is not serious competition when the 1150rtp cost matched a comp FLHTPI. So wait till HD can't make the grade, then announce your price.

 

BMWNA got a short term contract by submitting a money-losing bid. Then got the specs changed - ABS required, curb-proof wheels deleted - and jacked up the price.

 

The old bidding process required the bikes to meet specific standards and then award the bid to the lowest qualified bidder. Now they allow the "preferred" bidder to submit an astronomical bid and then nitpick the lower bids out of contention.

 

 

 

R1200rtp competition is really Honda's ST1300 but they've sat on their hands to long.

 

I described an encounter with a chippie on a BMW to an ST1300 rider outside a Harley shop. The chippie swerved out of an otherwise empty HOV lane, across 2 empty lanes, passed me by riding down the middle of my lane - just missing my left bar end - and swerved at my front wheel before swerving back over to the HOV lane and racing off into the distance.

 

The Honda pilot told me he had experienced similar behavior.

 

It makes one wonder if their desperation to keep BMWNA as their supplier is based more on the fear that they will encounter one of their victims at a Harley or Honda shop. Especially if they pull this kind of sh*t on the guy that ends up working on his bike.

 

Maybe that's why they steered clear of Marty's?

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I haven't heard that all the Harley dealers have pulled out. If that is true then it would go to BMW who is next in line. I'm still holding out for the 1200.

 

Hasn't been a lot of reliable info. out in the last month since the Harley took the stability test. Rumor is that the bike failed the high speed stability test in the low 90 mph range. Right after the test was done there was a gag order issued to everyone riding the bike, working on the bike and sweeping the floors around the bike. Everyone was told not to talk about the bike or they could have a problem.

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For what it's worth, this morning I saw what looked like CHP motors on the freeway riding side by side. One was on an RTP and the other on an E-Glide. No idea of the displacement of course and I didn't detect a wobble from either of them.

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I really doubt that you saw a CHP motor on an Electra-Glide in the L.A. area. Not one has been issued to the field yet. The only CHP motors who have ridden an Electra-Glide are stationed at the CHP Academy in W. Saramento and that was for evaluation purposes.

 

I just did some inquiring and apparently Harley fixed the stability problem, re-submitted the Electra-Glide about two weeks ago to the academy and it passed the stability test.

 

Hoping that, like stated earlier, the Harley dealers have pulled out of the bidding process.

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They were in the oncoming lane and could have been local PD. I didn't get a good look, but they were definitely LEOs, one on a BMW and the other on a Harley.

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I just did some inquiring and apparently Harley fixed the stability problem, re-submitted the Electra-Glide about two weeks ago to the academy and it passed the stability test.

 

Cool! I guess that means that HD has decided to install a new Telelever front suspension and Paralever rear suspension, to go along with their ABS "panier package" brake system. Their bikes should handle GREAT now! thumbsup.gif

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To add more fuel to the fire, I have reliable information that a LEO went down and injured himself while doing quaterly training on a 2005 Harley police Road King equipped with ABS.

While he was doing the "40 decel", he grabbed the brakes and the front wheel locked up...the ABS failed to activate.

All of that agencies' ABS equipped HD motors have been taken out of service and trucked to a local HD shop for an examination.

I understand HD is nervous about this development and Harley's ABS engineers have flown out from Milwaukee for a look.

This information was also passed along to the CHP academy motor intructors.

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A contac told me that they had to add an SE kit to get the Hardly up to snuff then they couldn't pass the noise test. HD then added "real" mufflers that then knocked them back under spec!

 

This all must be some sort of sick joke.....

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Lots of nice 3rd hand info....A contact says that H-D's blow up when looked at funny. But he can't talk about it because Harley paid him off.

 

This all must be some sort of sick joke.....

 

What's the joke? That BMW can't quote the R1200RT-P and can't build R1150RT-Ps? They don't show up at Rodeo's? They don't pursue the business? The officers are begging them to better support this industry, and they aren't listening?

 

As far as the rest, I guess I don't understand the point of a police motorbike.

 

If you want safety, get in a car. When I ride I take the risk of injury in exchange for pleasure. Is the same true here?

 

If you want performance there are better picks than the RT or the HD. And while you're at it, upgrade the fleet of cars too. CrownVics and Impala's aren't performance vehicles either.

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Oh pleeeeeese! Not one of ours, not ONE of ours (out of 10) would pass 108 mph! And that was a slow grind from 100 upwards, the poor old bike flailing away on the freeway raingroves like there was no tomorrow! Man, I was so glad to get off of the HD. You must be remembering "the good ol days of HD" (if there was one).

 

Curious.

 

Was my 1150RT a lemon? I had it on US50 in Nevada. It wasn't really hot, say 70F. Bags had ~1wks full of stuff, probably similar load to a RT-P's radio and the like.

 

WOT, never hit over 108 on the GPS. The speedo was up at 120+, but it never was that accurate.

 

I could either hit redline in 5th, or bog in 6th.

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