Immediate cessation of riding - R1200RT

[MikeNew]

It seems that there are 2 of us in Spain (Alicante and Madrid) who will be going to court shortly - any other takers?

[HootRT]

I tried doing my part and filed an online complaint with Better Business Bureau of New Jersey reference to BMW's handling of the buyback option. I personally believe it's a complete lack of respect and care for their customers that it may take up to 3 months to get one's refund. Maybe if more "buyback" riders voiced their disdain through options like BBB, then BMW and "Mark" would expedite the handling of the buybacks. However, it's my personal belief that if a customer is looking at receiving his/her refund check late September or early October versus having his/her bike repaired mid-August, then BMW will see buybacks being changed to repairs (i.e., money saved).

[Jaqen H'ghar]

How many people have had dealings with other motorcycle company's customer service departments? I had an issue with a radio on an Ultra Classic in the mid 90s. Harley was very hard to deal with. Not like this but it took a lot of effort to get a response. I think the way BMW is handling this is terrible. I like my bike but when I decide to change it most likely will be with another make due to the way this was handled. If I didn't like the way the bike fits my riding style I would say adious amigos in a heartbeat. I wish BMW would get a huge fine from the comsumer protection agency for the way their customers have been treated. Parts are parts but it is how you treat the customer that is important. I do not like government intervention. But in this case BMW needs an incentive to treat us with respect.

 

 

In 2006 I bought a Yamaha Roadliner, nice bike but I wanted the leather saddlebags from the Stratoliner, because both were also brand new models (like the RT) the bugs hadn't been worked out and my new leather bags I received were wrinkled, dealing with Yamaha CS was the very best experience, when I called and complained the Yamaha CS rep had all the power to solve the problem, it was decisive and prompt service and I have never forgotten that, this experience with BMW really makes me appreciate that.

[bdfbeemer]

I'm not sure why BMW is so hard to deal with. I think their business model sucks.

[Ponch]

BMW must think that customer loyalty enables them to do whatever they need to do in their best interests and not in the customer's best interest with impunity. Another word that comes to mind is stupid. Sounds like the bean counters took over the process and it's all over but the crying. Of course they are dragging their feet in the hope that more people wait for the repair and if people continue drinking kool-aid stuff like this will always happen. It really is disheartening.

[bdfbeemer]

I haven't heard anything from BMW in an about three weeks. I am going to talk to the dealer today. I have a trip planned in mid September. Problem is I have someone lined up to fill in at my office during that time. I don't want to sit home paying someone to do my work. I have to make a decision by the first part of August. I have to be fair to the fill in guy.

[Bmwdan]

Just called BMWNA. Said shock would be ready in Mid August officially but could be here in as few as two weeks. Production is ahead of schedule.

[bdfbeemer]

Just talked to my dealer. He said rep told him mid August at the earliest.

[Bmwdan]

Just talked to my dealer. He said rep told him mid August at the earliest.

 

Don't believe what your dealer tells you. Mine said to keep the mileage under 2k. I said, 'per week'?

[bdfbeemer]

Just talked to my dealer. He said rep told him mid August at the earliest.

 

Don't believe what your dealer tells you. Mine said to keep the mileage under 2k. I said, 'per week'?

I'm not going to believe anything until my bike is being wrenched. Especially anything I read on the internet.

[HootRT]

Has anyone been through any other motorcycle recalls from BMW? I was wondering if this was par for the course or if this is exceptional. Just curious to know if any other potential problems with the RT would be handled this slowly or if their track record has been better with other bikes.

[MikeNew]

For those of you in the UK or Europe I received this from the UK European Consumer Centre:

 

"Based on the information that you have provided it appears that you have a complaint regarding a motorcycle that you purchased, since delivery you have been notified by the trader that the product you purchased may be unsafe and you have been advised to not use the product.

 

When you purchase goods and services your rights in law are against the person you purchased from, you may only have rights against the Manufacturer if they have provided you with a commercial guarantee or warranty. If the goods are unsafe then this may be a breach of the contract between you and the retailer as the law states that goods must be safe in order to be considered of a satisfactory quality. Initially you may be able to claim for the product to be repaired or replaced free of charge and within a reasonable time and without causing significant inconvenience. Should a suitable remedy not be provided within a reasonable time or without causing significant inconvenience then you may be entitled to claim a reimbursement of the money paid. When a problem occurs within the first 6 months of purchase the burden of proof falls on the trader to prove that the product you purchased is not defective or unsafe if they wish to avoid their obligations under law.

 

If you purchased the motorbike from a UK dealer then you rights are likely to be against that dealer and governed by the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (please note that any rights under EU law is already incorporated in the Sale of Goods Act 1979). As we are only able to provide advice and assistance to consumers in the UK who have a complaint against a retailer based outside of the UK but within the EU, if your contract is with a UK based trader then we may not be able to assist you and you should contact the Citizens Advice Consumer Helpline for advice on best to pursue your claim. The Helpline can be contacted by telephone on 03454 04 05 06."

 

Hope this helps!

[KarlG]

Has anyone been through any other motorcycle recalls from BMW? I was wondering if this was par for the course or if this is exceptional. Just curious to know if any other potential problems with the RT would be handled this slowly or if their track record has been better with other bikes.

To the best of my knowledge, this current action (Do Not Ride) and recall is unprecedented and therefore exceptional for BMW Motorrad. Impossible to predict what other potential problems will occur or how BMW will handle them in the future. Their track record based on the past 15 years, to my knowledge, has been for consistency in providing minimal consumer communication regarding defects based on other bikes. Based on other bike models, BMW (Consumer Reports) in surveyed reliability, ranked dead last with 1/3 bike owners reporting problems.

Motorcycle Reliability Report

[RandyBailey]

Just stopped by my dealer to pick up a parts order for my older RT. The techs were busy removing the rear shock assembly on the new RTs. Basically, they were placing the bike on the center stand, removing the wheel and shock and then pivoting the rear subframe straight up and securing it with a tie down. Quite odd looking to see a row of RTs in this L configuration.

 

Tech told me the suspensions were being sent to BMW for modification. As soon as the parts are returned the bikes would be good to go...but no estimate when that would occur.

[bdfbeemer]

Were these undelivered bikes or bikes already in service?

[RandyBailey]

New, undelivered bikes. There was a customer bike parked nearby that had not been serviced.

[hdf]

Were these undelivered bikes or bikes already in service?

 

This is being done to all bikes - delivered and still sitting in the crate. At least that's the case in Europe. Then the shocks are sent to the Czech Republic.

 

What happens then is still a big mystery. Presumably they will be "repaired" and returned. No news on what "repaired" means.

[bdfbeemer]

If new bikes get fixed before existing customers I think you will see a lot more buy backs. It will piss me off royally.

[Skywagon]

Talked to a dealer, not mine, to see if I could get a story...told me the same...New bike not sold being fixed first so could move inventory...customers who already bought bikes would come second. How do you like that for not giving a flip about the situation the current ownere are in..

 

Somehow that seems over the top of in your face....

[Teddy]

Well in Australia I was told the complete opposite, bikes delivered to customers who were keeping the bike were fixed first.

We are still on track for a repair 90 days from 6th June when we were first notified by phone.

I believe BMW Aus will do the right thing by their customers, mind you the amount of RT's affected by the recall is around 50 or just over so we are talking a smaller number than some other countries.

 

Not to worry in a few months time we (well at least in Aus and some other warmer climes) will all be out enjoying our repaired machines and the rear suspension hassles will be far from our minds.

 

Let's hope so anyway.

 

Teddy

 

[Hoghead]

Were these undelivered bikes or bikes already in service?

 

This is being done to all bikes - delivered and still sitting in the crate. At least that's the case in Europe. Then the shocks are sent to the Czech Republic.

 

What happens then is still a big mystery. Presumably they will be "repaired" and returned. No news on what "repaired" means.

 

My Dealer in Nashville, Tn. told me they were removing the shocks from the new bikes to send for repair or replacement then they would be placed on the sold bikes that was awaiting repair....for some reason I really doubt that....

[Dennis Andress]

To the best of my knowledge, this current action (Do Not Ride) and recall is unprecedented and therefore

 

exceptional for BMW Motorrad. Impossible to predict what other potential problems will occur or how BMW will handle them in the future. Their track record based on the past 15 years, to my knowledge, has been for consistency in providing minimal consumer communication regarding defects based on other bikes. Based on other bike models, BMW (Consumer Reports) in surveyed reliability, ranked dead last with 1/3 bike owners reporting problems.

Motorcycle Reliability Report

 

Within the first few days of showing up in showrooms, the first K1200 S models were pulled from the showroom and taken back from the few buyers. BMW was far more closed mouthed about that incident that currently, in fact I'm not sure they ever explained why. It was several months before the

[Bmwdan]

We should have a contest to see who can put the most miles on their loaners. LOL

[BitScribbler]

Nearly 4,000 miles on my GS so far. Somehow I don't think I'll win this one though.

[bdfbeemer]

Talked to a dealer, not mine, to see if I could get a story...told me the same...New bike not sold being fixed first so could move inventory...customers who already bought bikes would come second. How do you like that for not giving a flip about the situation the current ownere are in..

 

Somehow that seems over the top of in your face....

Not sure this is true. When confronted my dealer strongly denied this info. He was adamant affected owners would be taken care of first.

[KarlG]

[

 

Within the first few days of showing up in showrooms, the first K1200 S models were pulled from the showroom and taken back from the few buyers. BMW was far more closed mouthed about that incident that currently, in fact I'm not sure they ever explained why. It was several months before the

 

I had one of the first run K1200S 2005s (preordered) that arrived in the states and it was never subject to a do not ride recall. It was years ago and I believe I remember a few recalls like the banjo bolt, but these were not a "do not ride" recall and did not occur shortly after delivery.

 

 

That bike and a friends 2006 had more than its share of problems but it was thrilling to ride and I enjoyed it very much for approximately 5 years. It was a gig step up in performance from my 2003 K1200GT.

 

Perhaps you are thinking about the S1000RR and the 2011=2012 connecting rods recall? There wasn't anything secret about it though.

[BMWLou]

Talked to a dealer, not mine, to see if I could get a story...told me the same...New bike not sold being fixed first so could move inventory...customers who already bought bikes would come second. How do you like that for not giving a flip about the situation the current ownere are in..

 

Somehow that seems over the top of in your face....

 

Guys do you really think BMW would do this? Maybe some low life dealer would but I do believe BMWNA and BMW Corporate will take care of existing customers first. They have put to much into making things right to this point to fix and sell existing inventory before customers are served.

 

Lou

[KarlG]

Talked to a dealer, not mine, to see if I could get a story...told me the same...New bike not sold being fixed first so could move inventory...customers who already bought bikes would come second. How do you like that for not giving a flip about the situation the current ownere are in..

 

Somehow that seems over the top of in your face....

Not sure this is true. When confronted my dealer strongly denied this info. He was adamant affected owners would be taken care of first.

 

My dealer and BMW US CS confirms this as untrue but I can see where an individual dealer could ignore BMW's intention of taking care of customer units first and unsold units second. Some dealers have already elected to no participate with the loaner bike option, or trade in on a new BMW model option effectively reducing the owner's option grid to only two choices.

 

Sucks to have a bad dealer particularly when the chips are down.

 

Customer bikes, that have elected to wait, will see first priority to replacement shocks per BMW's intention and good dealers are planning this.

 

In fact, dealers were asked to voluntarily remove the ESA shocks from unsold units and ship them off by this Friday to BMW to "help speed the process" of obtaining replacement units at an unspecified time in the future.

 

Some dealers are electing to NOT participate in a two stage process and will remove and replace the affected ESA units when the replacement units are actually in hand giving priority to customer bikes before unsold units in dealer's stock.

 

BMW US has a franchise agreement, as is common in the auto and motorcycle vehicle industry, and can not directly control the actions of their independent dealers.

[TEWKS]

Talked to a dealer, not mine, to see if I could get a story...told me the same...New bike not sold being fixed first so could move inventory...customers who already bought bikes would come second. How do you like that for not giving a flip about the situation the current ownere are in..

 

Somehow that seems over the top of in your face....

 

Guys do you really think BMW would do this? Maybe some low life dealer would but I do believe BMWNA and BMW Corporate will take care of existing customers first. They have put to much into making things right to this point to fix and sell existing inventory before customers are served.

 

Lou

 

I talked to my dealership today and they confirmed this story about the unsold units getting fixed first. They were not in agreement with it but it was what they were being told to do.

 

My patience pool is drying up.

 

Pat

[Bmwdan]

I don't believe that the unsold units will be fixed first. This makes no sense. If true, they are going to get a 1600GT with a lot of miles on it back.

[Firefight911]

I don't believe that the unsold units will be fixed first. This makes no sense. If true, they are going to get a 1600GT with a lot of miles on it back.

 

History lesson 101;

 

When the new wafer switches came out on the K1300GT/K1300S, they all started failing in heat environs. Once the fix pieces came out, they put them on the delaer units (unsold) first and then rolled the sold units through. The workaround for mine as she sat in the service department unrideable??????? The one that came off the unsold unit (yes, the old design) was put on mine until the supply chain caught up to allow my SOLD unit to be fixed. The UNSOLD units were SOLD by that time.

 

End of history lesson for the non-believers.

[KarlG]

I don't believe that the unsold units will be fixed first. This makes no sense. If true, they are going to get a 1600GT with a lot of miles on it back.

 

History lesson 101;

 

When the new wafer switches came out on the K1300GT/K1300S, they all started failing in heat environs. Once the fix pieces came out, they put them on the delaer units (unsold) first and then rolled the sold units through. The workaround for mine as she sat in the service department unrideable??????? The one that came off the unsold unit (yes, the old design) was put on mine until the supply chain caught up to allow my SOLD unit to be fixed. The UNSOLD units were SOLD by that time.

 

End of history lesson for the non-believers.

 

Are you in the area where the dealers are also not participating in the loaner and/or trade in with $1000 cash incentive options? I've seen several people mention the dealers in CA doing this to their customers, but it is a very big state. The type of dealer behavior you mention would be consistent with this type of customer support.

[DonB]

I am in Ohio and my dealer refused to work with me on a loaner. Loyal BMW customer with that dealer since 1986. No longer.

Only trades they had on 14s were a single GS and GTL. BMWNA refused to offer one as well.

So I was down to wait indefinitely with no date/plan on the replacement part (still to this day there is only speculation and no fact) or buyback.

I chose buyback. Going on three weeks now with no response from BMWNA after I sent the "packet" in.

Bad joke, bad company. Completely disgusted. I am offing my 335i. Anyone interested?

[HootRT]

I'm in same boat as DonB. Today marks 3 weeks and absolutely no communication from BMW regarding my buyback. When I confirmed they received my "packet" I was told on two occasions someone would contact me in 3-5 days. On third call to BMW-CS, I was told it may be 7 days. Finally reached someone in New Jersey who advised it would take up to 6-8 weeks to merely receive the buyback agreement, then another period up to 30 days to receive your money. So, it may take up to 3 months to get your money once the buyback process was selected. That is complete BS. As much as I love the RT, this is the old "shit on my once" concept. There won't be a "shame on me".

 

The "franchise" deflection boggles my mind with BMW. The dealerships are franchises so they can refuse to offer loaners or honor the trade-in option. These are two options set forth from BMW (NA) that the dealerships can refuse to honor??? If I went to a Pizza Hut and discovered they only sold tacos, how long do you think that would be tolerated before it was rectified or a new franchisee was brought in?

 

I commend the owners that have a stable of motorcycles to tap into. However, this sucks for us that this was our only bike. To make matters worse, possibly waiting 3 months to get my "buyback" funds severely dampers me salvaging a Midwest America riding season.

[KarlG]

For people stuck in buy back hell, and caught between a unresponsive dealer and BMW promises, pursuing individual legal options can be very costly.

 

However, most states' AG offices have consumer protection and fraud departments as does the Federal Trade Commision. Filing reports with these offices/departments is free and relatively painless and always results in an investigation.

[Ponch]

I'm in same boat as DonB. Today marks 3 weeks and absolutely no communication from BMW regarding my buyback. When I confirmed they received my "packet" I was told on two occasions someone would contact me in 3-5 days. On third call to BMW-CS, I was told it may be 7 days. Finally reached someone in New Jersey who advised it would take up to 6-8 weeks to merely receive the buyback agreement, then another period up to 30 days to receive your money. So, it may take up to 3 months to get your money once the buyback process was selected. That is complete BS. As much as I love the RT, this is the old "shit on my once" concept. There won't be a "shame on me".

 

The "franchise" deflection boggles my mind with BMW. The dealerships are franchises so they can refuse to offer loaners or honor the trade-in option. These are two options set forth from BMW (NA) that the dealerships can refuse to honor??? If I went to a Pizza Hut and discovered they only sold tacos, how long do you think that would be tolerated before it was rectified or a new franchisee was brought in?

 

I commend the owners that have a stable of motorcycles to tap into. However, this sucks for us that this was our only bike. To make matters worse, possibly waiting 3 months to get my "buyback" funds severely dampers me salvaging a Midwest America riding season.

 

I was pleasantly surprised when BMW was so forthright about this and since then it seems to have turned into a five way finger pointing four star CF. There's not enough Kool-Aid to fix this kind of crap.

[fourteenfour]

[

 

Guys do you really think BMW would do this? Maybe some low life dealer would but I do believe BMWNA and BMW Corporate will take care of existing customers first. They have put to much into making things right to this point to fix and sell existing inventory before customers are served.

 

Lou

 

Yes, my dealer told me the same when I asked while having bike in for service. He was not happy about it one bit and a bit astounded that this was the case. They are putting wilburs on a few of their customer's bikes even after getting advice against even that. BMW Corporate does seem to be a bit off these days

[Firefight911]

I don't believe that the unsold units will be fixed first. This makes no sense. If true, they are going to get a 1600GT with a lot of miles on it back.

 

History lesson 101;

 

When the new wafer switches came out on the K1300GT/K1300S, they all started failing in heat environs. Once the fix pieces came out, they put them on the delaer units (unsold) first and then rolled the sold units through. The workaround for mine as she sat in the service department unrideable??????? The one that came off the unsold unit (yes, the old design) was put on mine until the supply chain caught up to allow my SOLD unit to be fixed. The UNSOLD units were SOLD by that time.

 

End of history lesson for the non-believers.

 

Are you in the area where the dealers are also not participating in the loaner and/or trade in with $1000 cash incentive options? I've seen several people mention the dealers in CA doing this to their customers, but it is a very big state. The type of dealer behavior you mention would be consistent with this type of customer support.

 

No, I can assure you that is not the case. The local dealer is a very large, well funded outfit.

[KarlG]

Phil, what they did to you sounds like a very dick move, IMO. At least they got you back on the road (with known high failure rate switches) but the new should have gone into your bike first.

[Firefight911]

Phil, what they did to you sounds like a very dick move, IMO. At least they got you back on the road (with known high failure rate switches) but the new should have gone into your bike first.

 

I'm going to be very careful to not cross any lines but let us just say that I have a vast experience with BMW, dealers, BMWNA, et. al. and well, my sig line says enough.

[mickeym3]

Phil, what they did to you sounds like a very dick move, IMO. At least they got you back on the road (with known high failure rate switches) but the new should have gone into your bike first.

 

I'm going to be very careful to not cross any lines but let us just say that I have a vast experience with BMW, dealers, BMWNA, et. al. and well, my sig line says enough.

 

Yea Phil, we get it. You don't think much of BMW.

[Alfred02]

Jim

You should have left what you wrote originally. There was nothing wrong with your statement.

Phil

You don't seem to own or ride BMW's anymore, nor do you own a R1200RT-LC.

So why are you determined to continuously stir up as much shit as you can?

There appears to be enough riders out there that seem to have gotten a raw deal by their local dealers and/or the importer, to make them feel miserable.

They don't need somebody else to make them feel even worse.

Specially when that person is not effected in any way by the situation.

[BitScribbler]

Jim

You should have left what you wrote originally. There was nothing wrong with your statement.

Phil

You don't seem to own or ride BMW's anymore, nor do you own a R1200RT-LC.

So why are you determined to continuously stir up as much shit as you can?

There appears to be enough riders out there that seem to have gotten a raw deal by their local dealers and/or the importer, to make them feel miserable.

They don't need somebody else to make them feel even worse.

Specially when that person is not effected in any way by the situation.

 

+1

[bdfbeemer]

Too much of this S**T going on. A lot of dicks on the internet.

[EffBee]

OK, I'm calling a halt to the personal attacks. Let me tell you something about Phil, and then let me tell Phil something.

 

I believe Phil to be a man of integrity. It was his misfortune to have to do TWO buybacks from BMW, for reasons he tried mightily and relentlessly to have repaired. Yes, the experience is WAY out of the ordinary, but it was HIS experience and thus the only one from which he can personally speak. If he has an axe to grind, we should understand that. He has experienced more personal dissatisfaction with BMW than anyone should. If you have a BMW and it runs perfectly, and you understand the law of averages, Phil's experiences are why you've got one of the 99.5% good ones. You're in his debt.

 

Phil, we get the message. Repeating it isn't helping. You know the collective pain because you lived it on this board and shared it with all of us. We all know that BMW isn't perfect, and that there will be other such situations down the road. But as for now, basta. No mas. Por favor.

 

We now return everyone to their lawfully entitled kvetching.

 

 

[HootRT]

I finally received my repurchase agreement from BMW via email. Just a heads up to everyone, it was in my junk folder. In summary, I confirmed BMW received my documentation on 6/27/14 and the repurchase agreement was sent to me on 7/18/14.

[Bmwdan]

I don't believe that the unsold units will be fixed first. This makes no sense. If true, they are going to get a 1600GT with a lot of miles on it back.

 

History lesson 101;

 

When the new wafer switches came out on the K1300GT/K1300S, they all started failing in heat environs. Once the fix pieces came out, they put them on the delaer units (unsold) first and then rolled the sold units through. The workaround for mine as she sat in the service department unrideable??????? The one that came off the unsold unit (yes, the old design) was put on mine until the supply chain caught up to allow my SOLD unit to be fixed. The UNSOLD units were SOLD by that time.

 

End of history lesson for the non-believers.

 

Are you in the area where the dealers are also not participating in the loaner and/or trade in with $1000 cash incentive options? I've seen several people mention the dealers in CA doing this to their customers, but it is a very big state. The type of dealer behavior you mention would be consistent with this type of customer support.

 

I have 4000 miles on the loaner. It will need tires shortly. and I am not paying for them.

[Teddy]

Hehe I guess it is your summer holidays in the Northern hemisphere and BMW should expect that their loaners will rack up the miles.

Me I am nearly up to 1,000kms on my loaner and the first service is due, dealer said to bring it in for its first service, it will be their expense after all back in April I paid for my first service. Well I didn't actually as I negotiated the first service with my dealer.

 

Teddy

[KarlG]

You gentleman are making the perfect use of a loaner bike. The more miles you rack up, the better youre compensation from the use of a loaner.

 

It would cost (in the USA), far more than $1500 to buy a new GS or K16, rack up 4-5000 miles and trade it back as a used bike. It would also cost substantially more than that to rent for this prolonged period of down time for the repair.

 

On the whole, that option would seem to provide the owner with the highest compensation value of the options presented in the US provided one got the loaner and rode it extensively or even moderately for 2-4 months. Even if it sat in the garage, rental costs would quickly exceed $1500.

[Norm LeFevre]

I visited my dealer in Raleigh yesterday. He confirmed that they have taken the shocks off the unsold inventory and they are being sent to BMW to, I believe, replace an actuator. By doing that, the shocks - with no mileage - will be returned to the dealer for replacement on the unsold units.

 

At the same time, NEW shocks willl be assembled for replacement on the owners' bikes that elected to have them repaired. The dealer didn't mention the logistics of the ESA "stuff", or how it would transpire, but I did not get the impression that inventory bikes took any precedence over customer bikes.

 

It seems like there are two different tasks being performed, simultaneously.

 

As someone who is in manufacturing and relies on parts and subassemblies from outside vendors, I understand the process and, while it would be good to get more, official information, from BMW, I believe we will get the desired result in a reasonable time from now.

 

It's kind of a bummer though. The weather here has been absolutely perfect for riding!