The Trayvon Martin Case

[upflying]

 

If two vehicles, both tinted windows, both expired reg. tags :

 

(1) a 2010 BMW 7 series

(1) a 85 Cutlass with 28" wheels

 

Ya pulled over the Cutlass.

 

I think ya profiled.

 

MB>

Nope, I'd stop the BMW. The owner will pay for the expired tags, Cutlass driver, probably not.

If I was hauling dope, I sure as hell would not do it in a vehicle like the Cutlass.

The word is "discreet" when breaking the law. You want to blend in.

[tallman]

That same county arrested one of "America's Most Wanted" criminals a couple days ago.

Traffic stop which led to removing this incestuous child molester from the streets and protecting

our children from this monster.

 

I'm sure some will call this profiling.

 

So, what you're saying is the cops made one stop and nailed one child molester.

I say they probably made (pick any number) 10 - 20 - 50 - 60 illegal profiling stops and "BINGO", we got a child molester.

 

You can "say" what you want.

I'm citing facts.

Your scenario in no way matches the facts of the case.

Seems like your fishing....

[tallman]

 

If two vehicles, both tinted windows, both expired reg. tags :

 

(1) a 2010 BMW 7 series

(1) a 85 Cutlass with 28" wheels

 

Ya pulled over the Cutlass.

 

I think ya profiled.

 

MB>

Nope, I'd stop the BMW. The owner will pay for the expired tags, Cutlass driver, probably not.

If I was hauling dope, I sure as hell would not do it in a vehicle like the Cutlass.

The word is "discreet" when breaking the law. You want to blend in.

 

Actually had a huge bust of dealers yesterday, 20 or more.

Vehicles confiscated ran the gamut of '80's w/huge rims to new BMW's so, whatxha gonna do?

[upflying]

So what do you think, does Leonard Pitts have it correct?

Trayvon was stereotyped as a criminal because we are conditioned to associate black people with crime.

Zimmerman just happened to be the guy with the gun.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/05/2785652/trayvon-killed-by-a-stereotype.html

[tallman]

So, court documents released yesterday showed that George Zimmerman had a nose fracture, 2 black eyes, 2 cuts on the back of his head, marks/bruising on hips, lower back injury.

 

It also describes medications he was prescribed.

 

The earlier debate over claims by Martin's family that images

did not show injury to Zimmerman now seem baseless.

 

[upflying]

Looks like the feds are thinking about charging Zimmerman with a hate crime.

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/fbi-seeks-charge-george-zimmerman-hate-crime/nN5pR/

[pbharvey]

Looks like the feds are thinking about charging Zimmerman with a hate crime.

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/fbi-seeks-charge-george-zimmerman-hate-crime/nN5pR/

 

How does this work? The feds can charge someone on top of the local jurisdiction's charge? So the FBI folks read in the news that a drunk guy tossed a midget, then what - they just show up and charge the drunk with a hate crime?

[tallman]

A quid pro quo, state and fed prosecutors.

Feds throw some gas on the fire to divert the media/public, because the state position seems to be weakening.

Never happen, (fed charges) IMO.

 

[Quinn]

Noone expects the Spanish Inquisition:

 

 

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[upflying]

The second degree murder charge could be in jeopardy.

http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/news-national/20120515/US.Neighborhood.Watch/?cid=hero_media_sfo

[longjohn]

What about Z's meds? Are there restrictions with regard to carrying weapons and ingesting prescription meds in Fla?

 

Z wasn't tested at the time of the killing was he?

[Jaguar]

When I attended my concealed weapons class, there was no talk on prescription drugs. They clearly went over where you can and cannot carry, when you can and cannot carry. Prescription drugs never came into the conversation. So, with that, I would say no, there is no law restricting concealed carry and prescription drugs in Florida.

I would equate it to driving. It is not illegal to take prescription drugs and drive. But, if your taking a particular prescription drug that makes you fuzzy in the head, you can be arrested for driving under the influence. Same as concealed carry, if Z's head was {{{fuzzy}}} from a prescription drug, that's a totally different story. One the legal system would have to figure out.

[tallman]

Will have no effect.

Nor will the low levels of THC found in Martin's blood test.

 

But, Zimmerman had a legal prescription, can't say same for marijuana in Fl.

 

 

[Tank]

Skittles and marihuana .... Whoa, a combination to die for

[upflying]

What about Z's meds? Are there restrictions with regard to carrying weapons and ingesting prescription meds in Fla?

 

Z wasn't tested at the time of the killing was he?

 

Z was not legally required or compelled to give a sample of his blood. Police investigators will strongly suggest Z voluntarily provide a sample of his blood to prove his sobriety.

[tallman]

Yes, would be.

But until this all plays out conjecture all around.

Take care.

[upflying]

So how does declaring Trayvon Martin day at a Washington DC elementary school stop school bullying?

http://www.wjla.com/articles/2012/05/trayvon-martin-day-declared-at-d-c-elementary-school-76327.html

[Jaguar]

So how does declaring Trayvon Martin day at a Washington DC elementary school stop school bullying?

Trayvon Martin day at Malcolm X Elementary. You gotta love Government fed racism.

[MT Wallet]

I see that Zimmerman is back in custody in a Fla. jail. I thought that, in a system that claims innocent until proven guilty, the idea of bail was for the defendant to have enough skin in the game to guarantee his appearance at trial. It seems the prosecution has flagged the judge on another issue (assets) to taint the jury pool against Z. Note the kid showed up on his own to resurrender. It seems irrelevent that he has access to x,y or z dollars. He put skin in the game regardless of assets and was set free. Where's the beef?

[Nice n Easy Rider]

I see that Zimmerman is back in custody in a Fla. jail. I thought that, in a system that claims innocent until proven guilty, the idea of bail was for the defendant to have enough skin in the game to guarantee his appearance at trial. It seems the prosecution has flagged the judge on another issue (assets) to taint the jury pool against Z. Note the kid showed up on his own to resurrender. It seems irrelevent that he has access to x,y or z dollars. He put skin in the game regardless of assets and was set free. Where's the beef?

Even his own lawyer appears to admit that Zimmerman screwed up by misleading the court at his bail hearing.

 

(CBS News) George Zimmerman's attorney said the Zimmerman family must apologize for not being straightforward with the judge about the funds raised online for George Zimmerman's defense - a situation which led the judge to revoke the neighborhood watch volunteer's bond and order him back to jail.

 

Last Friday Judge Kenneth Lester revoked Zimmerman's bond. The judge believed the man charged in the Trayvon Martin shooting, and his wife, had misled him by asking for a low bond - never mentioning their online defense fund had raised $135,000.

 

"He can't sit back and obtain the benefit of a lower bond or circumstances based upon those material falsehoods," Lester said.

[upflying]

Heard somewhere that Z has two passports. He surrendered one but didn't mention he has two.

If true, you gotta be up front or lose credibility in the court of public opinion.

[MT Wallet]

Heard somewhere that Z has two passports. He surrendered one but didn't mention he has two.

If true, you gotta be up front or lose credibility in the court of public opinion.

 

Agreed. Maybe it says something about the confidence he has in the Fla. criminal justice system.

[upflying]

As I watched this story, I am eerily reminded of Trayvon Martin case. Places and names changed but the circumstances are similar. Instead of a neighborhood watch volunteer, we have a cop. Instead of the beating Z suffered, we have a kid who pulled a gun on the cop. Yet the aftermath is strikingly similar to Trayvon. A contact initiated by suspicious activity and then allegations of racial profiling by police. The video devotes three minutes to the outrage and injustice in the community yet only 10 seconds to police comments. I predict visits by community organizers in the near future.

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Police-Shoot-Kill-South-SF-Teen-157645885.html

[Mike]

As I watched this story, I am eerily reminded of Trayvon Martin case. Places and names changed but the circumstances are similar. Instead of a neighborhood watch volunteer, we have a cop. Instead of the beating Z suffered, we have a kid who pulled a gun on the cop. Yet the aftermath is strikingly similar to Trayvon. A contact initiated by suspicious activity and then allegations of racial profiling by police. The video devotes three minutes to the outrage and injustice in the community yet only 10 seconds to police comments. I predict visits by community organizers in the near future.

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Police-Shoot-Kill-South-SF-Teen-157645885.html

 

Tragic for the family and the kid's friends, but what's a police officer to do when an suspect pulls a gun on him?

[upflying]

As I watched this story, I am eerily reminded of Trayvon Martin case. Places and names changed but the circumstances are similar. Instead of a neighborhood watch volunteer, we have a cop. Instead of the beating Z suffered, we have a kid who pulled a gun on the cop. Yet the aftermath is strikingly similar to Trayvon. A contact initiated by suspicious activity and then allegations of racial profiling by police. The video devotes three minutes to the outrage and injustice in the community yet only 10 seconds to police comments. I predict visits by community organizers in the near future.

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Police-Shoot-Kill-South-SF-Teen-157645885.html

 

Tragic for the family and the kid's friends, but what's a police officer to do when an suspect pulls a gun on him?

Whether Derrick had a gun or not is the issue with the family and community. The issue is the confrontation and death would not have happened if the officer had not racially "profiled" Derrick Gaines under the pretext of "suspicious activity". The argument from the community is Derrick was chosen because he was black and was using a gun to protect himself from the police whom he perceived were a threat to him.

Many "disadvantaged youth" in urban areas are taught to stereotype police as racist enemies who cannot be trusted. The gun he had (if true) was his way to protect himself.

No doubt Trayvon had the same thoughts as Z confronted him.

[DiggerJim]

As I watched this story, I am eerily reminded of Trayvon Martin case. Places and names changed but the circumstances are similar.

Check out this story

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-05-27/stand-your-ground-law-trayvon-martin/55208980/1

 

Two months later they're still waiting for charges or even a little help from Al Sharpton's justice brigade. It seems it's not news & not racism if it's a black man vs. a mentally handicapped hispanic and not a 6'2" black teenager with multiple school suspensions for violence & drug issues vs. a 5'8" "white" hispanic...

[Quinn]

Has the latest video of Zimmerman laying out his side of the story changed anybody's armchair jurist opinion? Maybe gotta wait for the forthcoming exposee on why the police chief was canned?

 

Strange to me how these things get dribbled out to the media as if it were a protracted version of the card came War. Maybe the idea is to prolong the story and give the public enough time to cool down and accept a rational verdict.

 

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[Ken H.]

Has the latest video of Zimmerman laying out his side of the story changed anybody's armchair jurist opinion?

No, anyone can make a video.

 

Maybe gotta wait for the forthcoming exposee on why the police chief was canned?

The official reason given what a vote of no confidence in the public, not his specific actions (or lack there of) in the TM case. Maybe just a smokescreen, but regardless; largely irrelevant to the guilt or innocence of GZ.

 

Strange to me how these things get dribbled out to the media as if it were a protracted version of the card came War. Maybe the idea is to prolong the story and give the public enough time to cool down and accept a rational verdict.

Personally I don’t think it’s anything near that conspiratory (sp?) or planned. I think it’s just symptomatic of our society-wide AADD problem. The Trayvon Martin story is so yesterday. Today we have Snooky’s pregnancy to worry about, right?

 

[Quinn]

Has the latest video of Zimmerman laying out his side of the story changed anybody's armchair jurist opinion?

 

No, anyone can make a video.

 

 

In this case, it was the Sanford Police Department that made the video. It was released to the public by Zimmerman's attorney.

 

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[Harry_Wilshusen]

Has the latest video of Zimmerman laying out his side of the story changed anybody's armchair jurist opinion?

 

No, anyone can make a video.

 

 

In this case, it was the Sanford Police Department that made the video. It was released to the public by Zimmerman's attorney.

 

------

 

 

Add to this that Zimmerman Passed a lie detector test if this website is to be believed.

 

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/george-zimmerman-lie-detector-421395

 

Considering all the evidence no wonder it took so long to bring charges. It takes time to marshal that much political pressure.

 

 

[Ken H.]

GZ in a TV interview yesterday, “I feel it was all God’s plan”

 

TM’s father’s response, “"We must worship a different god because no way that MY God would have wanted George Zimmerman to kill my son."

 

All things considered I think I’ll go with Mr. Martin’s God.

 

[upflying]

Since there are about 20 major religions in the world, the chances of us worshiping a different God is highly likely.

I would assume most of those Gods would support the right to self-defense.

[Huzband]

GZ in a TV interview yesterday, “I feel it was all God’s plan”

 

TM’s father’s response, “"We must worship a different god because no way that MY God would have wanted George Zimmerman to kill my son."

 

All things considered I think I'll go with Mr. Martin's God.

 

If you had just had your nose broken, & subsequently had your skull pounded into the sidewalk, would you still go with Mr. Martin's God?

 

BTW, were either of us there?

[Marty Hill]

What Danny said!

[Ken H.]

GZ in a TV interview yesterday, “I feel it was all God’s plan”

 

TM’s father’s response, “"We must worship a different god because no way that MY God would have wanted George Zimmerman to kill my son."

 

All things considered I think I'll go with Mr. Martin's God.

 

If you had just had your nose broken, & subsequently had your skull pounded into the sidewalk, would you still go with Mr. Martin's God?

 

BTW, were either of us there?

I’m just appalled at the statement that anyone would say killing someone was God’s Will. I’m not drawing judgment on how the situation unfolded, like you say, I wasn’t there. It’s GZ’s callus dismissal of his part in the event, right or wrong, as it was the fulfillment of God’s Will that I find so ridiculous.

 

That’s the problem with this whole god thing, everybody can and does use it to justify most anything and everything. It’s the ultimate scapegoat. "God made me do it." Yeah, right.

 

[Mike]

GZ in a TV interview yesterday, “I feel it was all God’s plan”

 

TM’s father’s response, “"We must worship a different god because no way that MY God would have wanted George Zimmerman to kill my son."

 

All things considered I think I'll go with Mr. Martin's God.

 

If you had just had your nose broken, & subsequently had your skull pounded into the sidewalk, would you still go with Mr. Martin's God?

 

BTW, were either of us there?

I’m just appalled at the statement that anyone would say killing someone was God’s Will. I’m not drawing judgment on how the situation unfolded, like you say, I wasn’t there. It’s GZ’s callus dismissal of his part in the event, right or wrong, as it was the fulfillment of God’s Will that I find so ridiculous.

 

That’s the problem with this whole god thing, everybody can and does use it to justify most anything and everything. It’s the ultimate scapegoat. "God made me do it." Yeah, right.

 

It's a phrase I've heard others utter scores of times in the face of circumstances they find inexplicable.

 

While I agree that it was a little dumb, you have to consider the fact that it came from a young guy from an average background whose been thrust into the limelight--and not in a good way--speaking before an audience of millions. Experienced politicians, preachers, and renowned personalities have said far worse.

 

I interpreted it to mean that he could not fully grasp the confluence of events that led him and Martin to the point where one killed the other. Faced with something that most would find daunting, he turned to a trite, oft-used phrase of no real meaning.

[upflying]

I agree with Mike, GZ did not mean it was God's will to kill Trayvon. It means it was God's will to use the incident as an example for others and to learn from it.

BTW, LEO's are never trained to kill someone. LEO's are trained to "stop" a person. Occasionally stopping someone results in their death.

During my 30 yr career, I tried to stop two people which unfortunately resulted in their death.

[beemerman2k]

I agree with Mike, GZ did not mean it was God's will to kill Trayvon. It means it was God's will to use the incident as an example for others and to learn from it.

BTW, LEO's are never trained to kill someone. LEO's are trained to "stop" a person. Occasionally stopping someone results in their death.

During my 30 yr career, I tried to stop two people which unfortunately resulted in their death.

 

For the record, this is exactly how I understood his meaning to be as well. So I was quite dismayed to see this alternate translation run amok on Facebook and in the news. People don't listen anymore. We get a wiff of what someone is saying and then we fill in the rest with what we fantacize them to be saying. We morph their words to fit our own prejudices. Terrible.

[Ken H.]

I was quite dismayed to see this alternate translation run amok on Facebook and in the news. People don't listen anymore. We get a wiff of what someone is saying and then we fill in the rest with what we fantacize them to be saying. We morph their words to fit our own prejudices. Terrible.

I don’t think there’s any morphing going on at all. Watch the video of the interview. I think it’s quite clear that he still doesn’t recognize the gravity of what happened or his role in it. He simply dismisses it all as “God’s Will.”

 

OTHO, I do see (sort of) the ‘what else is he going to say?’ point. With his attorneys sitting 3 feet away it’s not like he’d say anything to incriminate himself. But if their goal of the little putting him on TV stunt was to improve GZ’s position in the ‘trial by public’; I think it backfired more than a bit with the God comment.

 

[DiggerJim]

[Experienced politicians, preachers, and renowned personalities have said far worse.

Including one who said if he had a son he'd have been like Trayvon. Of course that was before it turned out that Trayvon was not the cute little 12 yr old of the photos but older and also a much bigger (6" and many pounds) man than Zimmerman...or that he had traces of marijuana...or a history of trouble in school including 2 assaults...The usual conversation around this would have been along the lines of "black man with a history of drug use and violence was killed by Hispanic man in...." if the professional rabblerousers of Sharpton & Co. didn't smell blood in the waters with a Jewish sounding (e.g. probably white) surname and FL stand your ground law as bait.

 

I was just surprised he was talking. His lawyers had to hate that. No good can come of his talking in this atmosphere.

[pbharvey]

Could this cause a mistrial?

 

AUGUST 9--In an embarrassing screw-up, Florida prosecutors today accidentally distributed a post-mortem photo of Trayvon Martin as well as copies of George Zimmerman’s college records, material that Florida law considers confidential and exempt from disclosure.

 

Admittedly the source is shaky but still...is there such a thing as sabotaging a case so you can start over?

[upflying]

It's hard to see any detail in that grainy photo.

Mistrial or not, the charges would simply be refiled by the DA.

I don't see an issue here.

[Peter Parts]

[Experienced politicians, preachers, and renowned personalities have said far worse.

Including one who said if he had a son he'd have been like Trayvon. snip

 

I thought Obama said if he had a son he would look something like Trayvon. Fair enough.

 

What does your mis-remembering say about your attitudes? Or am I my mis-remembering?

 

That and his other remarks at the time were pretty close to mainstream puzzlement at the time in being somewhere between curious and concerned. Fair enough - maybe even remarkably judicious - given the outlines of the story as known at the time which disgusted everyone except the NRA.

 

I also think your mentioning traces of marijuana in Trayvon's bloodstream as justification for his murder puts your views of murder, marijuana possession, and marijuana behavior somewhat off-center.

 

I guess we all agree with Mike's original comment about politicians. There used to be a leading guy who always ended his words with "God bless." Umm, always makes me laugh when a football player thanks God for a goal... as if humbling and beating down the other team was in God's plan.

 

Ben

[upflying]

Might as well resurrect this thread before someone starts a new one. Trial begins in one week.

 

[Fubar]

Thanks for the update and resurrect. I, for one, will be following the developments.

[upflying]

Not guilty but Z has a lot more to worry about on the civil side.

[Roadwolf]

Not guilty but Z has a lot more to worry about on the civil side.

 

As he should.

[upflying]

Prosecutors almost seemed relieved it's over, like they were saying, "now you can blame the jury not us".

Quick jury decision suggests the deliberation consensus was easy. In the 35 yrs I've been around criminal cases, prosecutors usually don't charge cases they can't prove. Waste of time and money to do so.

Knowing they had a weak case, why would the DA charge second degree murder?

[DiggerJim]

Knowing they had a weak case, why would the DA charge second degree murder?

Because they had to - with the political and media pressure they had no choice. There would have been riots. They were planning how to deal with civil unrest in the event of a "not guilty" verdict so we'll see tomorrow whether they were right.

[Mike]

Not guilty but Z has a lot more to worry about on the civil side.

 

As he should.

 

True enough, but the affirmative defense of self-defense applies with equal force in a civil case:

 

776.012/8195;Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:

(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony....