Youtube videos worth watching

[RTinNC]

LOL ... and here's the Boxflyer version of making maple syrup 

 

[Boxflyer]

I knew one of the pilots that was qualified on this DC-10 doing fire retardant drops.

Obviously, it was VERY dangerous!

[TEWKS]

3 minutes ago, Boxflyer said:

Obviously, it was VERY dangerous

I can’t imagine!  Airspeed? Probably on the slower side of where the plane wants to be? (PS understand that vid was slowed down)

[Boxflyer]

46 minutes ago, TEWKS said:

I can’t imagine!  Airspeed? Probably on the slower side of where the plane wants to be? (PS understand that vid was slowed down)

 

Well...

Currently the trailing edge flaps are at 15°, which is a take-off setting, so the leading edge slats are only extended to the Take-off range. (as opposed to the higher deflection of the Slats for Flaps 35° or 50° which are the landing positions)

The MAX A/S for Flaps 15° is 250KIAS, so that's the fastest he would fly so as not to exceed any structural limits for the DC-10. ( I have no idea what the retardant doors limit speeds are)

Since the reloading time of retardant and cycle times to get the aircraft back at the drop zone are very important, I'd say the staging airport is probably within 30NM or so...meaning that his total fuel load would be low enough to maximize the Payload vs fuel carried.

My guess is that in this video, the DC-10 is making this drop pass at about 175-200KIAS (Knots Indicated Air Speed)

This would be good from a safety margin above STALL, and yet have good flying maneuverability to line up for the critical drop line.

 

@TEWKS Now you owe me a Blackies hot dog for digging this info out of Mr. Peabody's Way-Back Machine!

 

[TEWKS]

Ok two free hotdogs for Brad!  
 

Now, I understand why I’d be the guy on the ground with a rake and shovel. 
 

 

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

57 minutes ago, TEWKS said:

Now, I understand why I’d be the guy on the ground with a rake and shovel. 

 

You'll be fine on the ground, as long as they don't drop the water on you:

 

 

[Boxflyer]

The DC-10 Fire Tanker can drop 9400 gallons, 78,000 pounds in 8 seconds...it only take 8 minutes to load it up in the tanks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DC-10_Air_Tanker

[JC120]

@TEWKS Now you owe me a Blackies hot dog for digging this info out of Mr. Peabody's Way-Back Machine!

 

I just want to know what a Blackies hot dog is and where are they  

[Boxflyer]

Info about Blackies. 
https://g.co/kgs/EPt4P4e

 

Pat and Mitch are trailering down to START at the same time as @Chef Paul and I are. 
We have agreed to meet up at Blackies for lunch before driving with mutual support the rest of the way. 

[TEWKS]

48 minutes ago, JC120 said:

@TEWKS Now you owe me a Blackies hot dog for digging this info out of Mr. Peabody's Way-Back Machine!

 

I just want to know what a Blackies hot dog is and where are they  

 
I’m glad you asked! 

 

@Boxflyer @Chef Paul @Mitch Triumphant and myself have decided to form up a Convoy on the way down to START on the 20th. Our meeting point happens to be right down the street from Blackies Hotdog stand. Now they have been in business for 95 years and their two items they sell are Hotdogs & Hamburgers… Got to be good! 

 

EDIT

Brad beat me to the explanation. 

[TEWKS]

 Future road-trip maybe, luckily we’ll get to judge for ourselves on the 20th!   After seeing this I think I’m a well done dogger. 

 

 

[RTinNC]

WOW .. right up there with Rutt's Hut and Hot Grille in New Jersey! 

[bendbill]

14 hours ago, Boxflyer said:

The DC-10 Fire Tanker can drop 9400 gallons, 78,000 pounds in 8 seconds...it only take 8 minutes to load it up in the tanks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DC-10_Air_Tanker

Boxflyer--

 

Please explain flight physics for dummies [ without laughing ] :  does dropping 39 tons in 8 seconds cause the plane to gain elevation really really quickly?

[Boxflyer]

@bendbill

I was a Captain on the MD-11 for 23yrs of my 32yrs, and at FedEx, we had about 50+/- of those before I retired at the end of 2016.  Pilots were Dual Type Rated (meaning qualified to operate) on the MD-10 as well, since it had what was referred to as a Common Flight Deck.  We had about 40 MD-10-10 and about 20 MD10-30's in the fleet that you were assigned depending on the route segment being flown.

My experiences are actual observations durning cargo operations, NOT Fire Fighting, so I am guessing about a lot of this stuff!

 

Some basic numbers and descriptions first...

 

DC10-30

 

BOW= Basic Operating Weight (parts of the airplane you always gotta take with you) 266k

MTOGW= Max Takeoff Gross Weight.  Total of BOW, and a combination of fuel + Payload.  You can take full fuel, but then you are restricted on payload up to MTOGW, or you can take MAX payload, and then you are limited as to how much fuel you can carry up to the MTOGW again.

For the DC10-30, MTOGW=555k

Max Fuel capacity= 36.6k gallons x 6.7#/gal= ~244k   I'm guessing that during fire fighting operations, they keep the total fuel onboard around 50% for extra safety margin to maneuver above the stall speed, so that's about 122k pounds of fuel during this operation.

Fire Retardant for release= 78k

 

 

Adding together BOW, 50% fuel, and water based Fire Retardant, that would give an approximate weight approaching the drop zone of 466k.  About 84% of MAX operating conditions.

When they drop the total load of Fire Retardant, 78k, in about 8 seconds, the new weight would now be 388k.  This would be a reduction of operating weight of about 16% in 1G flight.

 

This is where a comment about Wing Loading might be useful.

In turbulent conditions...where up and down moving air changes the angle of attack on the wing quickly...the effects are VERY different on say a Cessna 172 vs a DC10-30.

C-172 MAX Weight is approx. 2550# and the wing area is 174 sq ft.  This give a wing loading of about 14.6 pounds per square foot.

DC10-30 MTOGW is 555,000# with a wing area of 3647 sq ft.  Now this is a wing loading of about 152 pounds per square foot.

Navy A7-E  MTOGW 42,000#, wing area 375 sq ft.  Wing loading 112# per sq ft.  I once dropped 8000# (4xMk84) on one pass and didn't feel much because as soon as you released in a 45° dive, you pulled out with up to 7G's.

 

If you hang a feather and a brick from a similar string and watch the effect of wind gusts, you will see that what you would feel if you were riding on the brick would be dramatically different than if you were riding on the feather...you might even get air-sick or spill your drink!

 

Whenever you are maneuvering and aircraft (not just straight and level equilibrium) you are always aware of the effects of acceleration (G's) on the airframe.  

I'm sure that the folks doing the Fire line drops are very, very careful not to be "loading" up the wing too much if possible before release due to the possibility of an accelerated stall or structural damage.

https://youtu.be/dqAzIgHIMtg

 

....the quick answer would be...it depends on whether or not the plane is pulling up at the same time as it unloads.  If the pilot is pulling up with the force of 2G's during the drop, then as above, the change in operating weight would be a smaller percentage and felt less overall.

466k x 2G's = 932k - 78k retardant = ~8% change in maneuvering weight.

 

So, it just depends... 

 

 

[Skywagon]

I have about.0000001% of Brads flight experiences, and nothing in big planes, but stop flying with about 8000 hours in GA. I flew Skydivers for a while. We flew with just above minimum fuel so we could carry 8 divers in a Cessna 206. Max weight 3600lbs. All 8 would be out in a few seconds. Because most of them were behind the center of lift, the plane would begin to nose up as they exited. It wasn’t dramatic, but because the nose was going up, and you were flying just above stall for the divers, you needed to be mindful to slowly nose over to keep from entering a stall

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

56 minutes ago, Boxflyer said:

You can take full fuel, but then you are restricted on payload up to MTOGW, or you can take MAX payload, and then you are limited as to how much fuel you can carry up to the MTOGW again.

 

Singapore Airlines runs the longest regularly scheduled passenger flight in the world, from JFK airport in New York non-stop all the way to Singapore - about 10,000 miles in about 19 hours (there's another flight between Newark Liberty and Singapore with similar time/distance).  I recall reading somewhere that they fit up the entire cabin as business class.  This reduced the passenger capacity, but the lower head count (compared to a more common cabin configuration with lots of economy class passengers) meant that they could carry enough fuel for the whole trip.  

[Boxflyer]

I have the most experience with the MD-11, and it had a BOW of about 260k, and a fuel capacity of about 258k and a MAX Payload of about 200k.

The MTOGW was 630k, so you always had to take basic airplane parts, 260k, but if you wanted to fly MAX Range, you would top up the fuel and restrict the Payload...so, 630k - 258k = 112k Payload.  The other option would be to fill the plane up with Cargo of 200k and limit the fuel, and therefore Range, to 170k of fuel. 

I routinely flew from KIX (Osaka, Japan) to OAK, Oakland, CA...this was a topped off fuel capacity, then cargo so that you would arrive at the destination with minimum fuel reserves. Only about 4700 miles, about 11hrs with 112k payload.

Another common flight on the MD-11 was from Paris to Hong Kong, about 6000 miles and 13.5 - 14hr. 

The B777 is now the Long Range preferred aircraft at FedEx.

[TEWKS]

2 hours ago, John Ranalletta said:

 

 

 

 

[bendbill]

Thanks to Boxflyer and Skywagon for explaining how much goes on in flight with weight, speed, G forces, and angles of attack.

[TEWKS]

Speaking of flight! Nailed the landing…
 

 

[Hosstage]

What in the hell?!

 

[Ron-M]

Holy crap.  I have always wondered about the dynamics of people being ejected from a vehicle when not wearing seatbelts. That explains it..........

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

30 minutes ago, Ron-M said:

Holy crap.  I have always wondered about the dynamics of people being ejected from a vehicle when not wearing seatbelts. That explains it..........

 

Yep.  Tumbling cars can launch you higher than a high-side on a track bike,  minus the race leathers and helmet.  Once you're ballistic, you have very little control over how you land.  That guy is lucky he didn't land head-first on the sand.

 

Even if you do stick the landing, then you're out in the open on a road with high-speed traffic coming at you.  

 

Search YouTube for "ejected from car", and you'll see more than you probably want to.  

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

I liked Dune, but I watched it at home.  Haven't been to a real movie theatre since 2007.  Is the audio experience everything they claim it is?

 

 

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

From June 9, 2011:

 

 

[RTinNC]

1 hour ago, Joe Frickin' Friday said:

From June 9, 2011:

 

 

Paging @Indy Dave 

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

Anyone who has wired up electronic circuits might appreciate this:

 

 

[Hosstage]

8 minutes ago, Joe Frickin' Friday said:

Anyone who has wired up electronic circuits might appreciate this:

 

 

My wife assembled circuit boards for years. I watched her a few times, she was incredible. She could solder like no one I'd ever seen before, taught me how to solder so much better.

That vid brought it all back. 

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

What are you supposed to do when your retired bomb dog alerts on the car next to you?

 

 

 

[RTinNC]

16 minutes ago, Joe Frickin' Friday said:

What are you supposed to do when your retired bomb dog alerts on the car next to you?

 

 

 

RUN !! 

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

Go ahead, turn the volume up.  I dare you.  

 

 

[RandyShields]

4 hours ago, Joe Frickin' Friday said:

What are you supposed to do when your retired bomb dog alerts on the car next to you?

Oh, I would love to see the end of that story!  

[RandyShields]

55 minutes ago, Joe Frickin' Friday said:

Go ahead, turn the volume up.  I dare you.  

 

There is a reason those planes are still flying.  Went to a local air show a couple of years ago with a pilot friend (retired naval fighter pilot) and several P-51s did some strafing and bomb drop demos (with flour bombs).  It was way cool; those planes are awesome sounding!  Then, met up with another local pilot who was there and had an aviation app that recorded the speeds of all the aircraft.  The P-51a were 300+, but nowhere near their full speed capability.  Still looked pretty fast to me!

[John Ranalletta]

3 hours ago, RandyShields said:

There is a reason those planes are still flying.  Went to a local air show a couple of years ago with a pilot friend (retired naval fighter pilot) and several P-51s did some strafing and bomb drop demos (with flour bombs).  It was way cool; those planes are awesome sounding!  Then, met up with another local pilot who was there and had an aviation app that recorded the speeds of all the aircraft.  The P-51a were 300+, but nowhere near their full speed capability.  Still looked pretty fast to me!

Many moons ago, at a charity auction, we bought a ride in a P-51 for our son's high school graduation gift.  The flight lasted ca. 30 minutes in beautiful but very warm weather.  Exiting the plane, our son was green and dizzy.  He tried to describe the rolls and loops and how very hot the plane's interior was.  He wobbled to the car to lie in the back seat as we drove to the local Coney Dog restaurant where his mother and I enjoyed lunch.  

[RandyShields]

35 minutes ago, John Ranalletta said:

we drove to the local Coney Dog restaurant where his mother and I enjoyed lunch.  

Oh, I bet that didn't end well.  Hard to imagine that the voodoo was over 100 miles an hour faster than the standard P-51 with the Merlin engine.  Approaching early jet engine speeds.

[wbw6cos]

Pilot Doug Matthews got high in a P-51D

[JCtx]

On 4/19/2024 at 12:02 PM, Joe Frickin' Friday said:

Go ahead, turn the volume up.  I dare you.

Hey, this little jet seems to fly A LOT faster than that one... and it's 'only' 450+ mph. Man, you need some fast reflexes to fly that thing at those speeds. Enjoy:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPGDAZyQ44k

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

 

 

[wbw6cos]

Wow, it did that with a snow board.   That was cool.  Figuratively and literally.   

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

9 minutes ago, wbw6cos said:

Wow, it did that with a snow board.   That was cool.  Figuratively and literally.   

 

I was impressed that the bun stayed oriented and committed to getting all the way to the far side.  Talk about eyes on the prize!

 

Also thought it was fitting that the filmmaker listed the bun in the end credits ("Kamchatka Rabbit").  

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

Funny dogs:

 

 

For them what are bored, there's an entire channel with hundreds of compilation episodes like that one:

https://www.youtube.com/@FunnyDogszk/shorts

 

Here, want some more?

 

 

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

Don't be this guy:

 

[Rougarou]

1 hour ago, Joe Frickin' Friday said:

Don't be this guy:

 

 

If walking after a rain,.....be leery of being close to me,.....I might just take a heavy step in a puddle

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

Never, never bet against the honey badger:

 

 

[scout6]

I always liked the simple melody line of this song.  The video is pretty interesting.