"Jap" Used in Referring to Motorcycles

[steve.foote]

Considering that, depending on which source you use, there are between 450,000 and one million words in the english language, and 300 million persons in this country alone, how long will we have a functional vocabulary if we keep striking offending words from our collection?

 

Does the word "the" offend anyone? Just checking so I don't accidently draw the wrath of someone I've never met.

 

How about "or"...

[russell_bynum]

You sure you live in California?

 

I live in California, but I'm a Texan.

 

Well no doubt...I think that is the real point....all of us can assure ourselves we are "one of the good ones" and it is "other people" who mean something offensive when they use a derogative term....but the rub on this entire thread is an Asian person has raised the point that a specific term is offensive to him, and instead of acknowledging that, many folks seem to think they can just assure him they "don't mean it" or that he should "grow up" and frankly that is something I find pathetic.

 

Why is it so unreasonable to expect that to work both ways?

 

Growing up around a bunch of racist folks (of any ethnicity) and then trying to use that as a justification for continuing that type of behavior is equally baffling

 

Or...maybe they weren't racist at all.

[ghaverkamp]

the best post on this entire thread has to be Russell claiming he "didn't know" that saying that you were trying to "Jew them down" was offensive.

 

Why in the hell would that be offensive? It means you beat someone down on price to get the best deal on something. Like I said...I learned that term from Jewish people. I've used it with them and nobody seemed to get bothered.

 

I guess it's only offensive to those who recognize that words can broadly impact society. How nice that your friends aren't offended; they're apparently equally oblivious to the larger issue. It's not just about offense. Despite the nice "sticks and stones" platitudes, the reason the terms are offensive is because they reinforce stereotypes.

 

It's ironic that someone who would suggest immunity to ethnic and racial issues would so freely use a term that has no meaning in the absence of an understanding of the stereotype.

[russell_bynum]

Despite the nice "sticks and stones" platitudes, the reason the terms are offensive is because they reinforce stereotypes.

 

Or maybe they're poking fun at the stereotypes.

[Deadboy]

Despite the nice "sticks and stones" platitudes, the reason the terms are offensive is because they reinforce stereotypes.

 

Or maybe they're poking fun at the stereotypes.

 

You mean the same folks who cannot even acknowledge these issues exist? Give me a break; you simply cannot have it both ways....

[ghaverkamp]

Despite the nice "sticks and stones" platitudes, the reason the terms are offensive is because they reinforce stereotypes.

 

Or maybe they're poking fun at the stereotypes.

 

Do you have an example? Because I haven't seen such an example here yet.

[upflying]

Despite the nice "sticks and stones" platitudes, the reason the terms are offensive is because they reinforce stereotypes.

 

Or maybe they're poking fun at the stereotypes.

 

Do you have an example? Because I haven't seen such an example here yet.

 

How about blond jokes? They are freely and openly thrown around. Why is it acceptable to joke about a blond but not some other ethnicity?

[russell_bynum]

Despite the nice "sticks and stones" platitudes, the reason the terms are offensive is because they reinforce stereotypes.

 

Or maybe they're poking fun at the stereotypes.

 

You mean the same folks who cannot even acknowledge these issues exist? Give me a break; you simply cannot have it both ways....

 

I never said they couldn't acknowledge that these issues existed...I just said they weren't offended.

 

Sure...the stereotype is that Jews haggle prices down. (I'm still not sure why that's offensive, but whatever.) So...when they'd go buy a car or whatever, they'd say they were going to "jew them down" to get a better price.

 

What's the issue?

[russell_bynum]

Despite the nice "sticks and stones" platitudes, the reason the terms are offensive is because they reinforce stereotypes.

 

Or maybe they're poking fun at the stereotypes.

 

Do you have an example? Because I haven't seen such an example here yet.

 

How about blond jokes? They are freely and openly thrown around. Why is it acceptable to joke about a blond but not some other ethnicity?

 

Right.

 

Or pretty much everything that's said on every episode of Family Guy, American Dad, or the Simpsons.

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

Sure...the stereotype is that Jews haggle prices down. (I'm still not sure why that's offensive, but whatever.) So...when they'd go buy a car or whatever, they'd say they were going to "jew them down" to get a better price.

 

What's the issue?

 

[Lawman]

Do you think they would take $8.80 / lb. if I buy them all?

[Francois_Dumas]

What strikes me most about this entire thread is that most 'regular posters' do NOT seem to live in zones with current wintery bad weather......

[russell_bynum]

 

Now that's funny.

[Dave McReynolds]

I think we all draw the line somewhere. Finding out where people draw the line or even to get them to admit there is a line, seems to be a difficult thing to do.

 

For example, if I say I'm sensitive about my bald spot, and I would appreciate it if people would refer to it in the future as "differently hirsuted" rather than a bald spot, most people at first would just think I'm being ridiculous to make a point and would ignore me.

 

But if I pressed the issue, and convinced people that I was sincere, most people, even those who have been so appalled by some of our responses here, I suspect, would probably recommend personal counselling or something to help me solve my problem rather than banning the words "bald spot" throughout our society.

 

On the other hand, I doubt that those on the other side of the issue are going to run around freely saying the "N" word (I can't help but feeling a bit ridiculous having to put the N in quotes that way rather than just stating the word; kind of makes me feel like the characters in Harry Potter who wouldn't say the word Voldemort).

 

Everyone, I suspect, draws the line somewhere. It kind of tickles me to see some folks get so sanctimonious just because they draw the line in a different place than someone else does.

[Lawman]

What strikes me most about this entire thread is that most 'regular posters' do NOT seem to live in zones with current wintery bad weather......

 

Francois,

Makes perfect sense to me..Wintery weather leads to depression which causes one to withdraw..Good weather gives one a real zest for life and willingness to engage which is what we are seeing here...

[Francois_Dumas]

What strikes me most about this entire thread is that most 'regular posters' do NOT seem to live in zones with current wintery bad weather......

 

Francois,

Makes perfect sense to me..Wintery weather leads to depression which causes one to withdraw..Good weather gives one a real zest for life and willingness to engage which is what we are seeing here...

 

I guess that's ONE way of looking at it ......

[SeanC]

Despite the nice "sticks and stones" platitudes, the reason the terms are offensive is because they reinforce stereotypes.

 

Or maybe they're poking fun at the stereotypes.

 

You mean the same folks who cannot even acknowledge these issues exist? Give me a break; you simply cannot have it both ways....

Sure you can -- and do, we all do. Stereotypes are fun. The key is knowing they're stereotypes, knowing you're having fun with them and knowing your audience knows the same. I tend to be careful with them in places like this, and with writing in general, because you never know who that audience might be. It's mostly about context, but a lot of people, it seems to me, go around looking to be offended, completely ignoring context. And while I believe such people deserve what they're looking for, it doesn't benefit me to be the one who'll deliver the offense.

 

With a name like "Cavanaugh," I'm a Mick. Micks like to drink and fight. But I'm also from Montana, so that makes me a Hick, too, and a Redneck. In college once I had to go to the student health center to have my hand x-rayed for a possible fracture. The nurse in the exam room looked at her clipboard and said, "Cavanaugh, huh? Did you break it in a fight?" It caught me off guard for a moment and I felt a wee twinge of offense. But then I saw her name tag... WISNEWSKI.

 

"Yeah," I replied. "I cracked it on some dumb pollack's block head."

 

She laughed and told me it was her married name, that her maiden name was MORAN, but that her husband was in fact a dumb pollack.

 

It's part of life. Sometimes we tell jokes and sometimes we're the butt of jokes. The people who regard stereotypes as factual are at the same level as those who claim they should be avoided at all times. Bigots on one side and Compassion Fascists on the other. They deserve one another -- they exist to annoy -- but they don't deserve the rest of us, those who can go with the flow and enjoy the ride, and it's too bad when we feel it necessary to pussy-foot around them. But we roll with that too.

[Dave McReynolds]

Bigots on one side and Compassion Fascists on the other. They deserve one another -- they exist to annoy -- but they don't deserve the rest of us, those who can go with the flow and enjoy the ride, and it's too bad when we feel it necessary to pussy-foot around them. But we roll with that too.

 

I think that pretty much sums up how I feel too!

[ghaverkamp]

On the other hand, I doubt that those on the other side of the issue are going to run around freely saying the "N" word (I can't help but feeling a bit ridiculous having to put the N in quotes that way rather than just stating the word; kind of makes me feel like the characters in Harry Potter who wouldn't say the word Voldemort).

 

Everyone, I suspect, draws the line somewhere. It kind of tickles me to see some folks get so sanctimonious just because they draw the line in a different place than someone else does.

 

It's not about sanctimonious line drawing. There are no hard-and-fast lines. There are issues of politeness, decency, and recognition of historical significance. Most f the counter arguments to the original post have suggested there should be no lines whatsoever. Intent is all-important, and if they don't personally intend any harm or offense, the rest of the world be damned.

 

However, whether Russell's oblivious or doesn't care, there have been very real effects from the stereotype of Jews as money hoarders and usurers. There are still ill effects from years of disparaging terms used toward blacks, and depending on who you believe, whole new problems based on more recent usage. You said earlier that you don't care about "mick," and that's fine and dandy. Fortunately, there's far less white-against-white discrimination today than there has been in the past, which makes it far easier to ignore the broader implications of the various derogatory ethnic and racial terms.

 

Don't try to pin it on sanctimonious line drawing. That's oversimplifying the issue in an attempt to rationalize the unwillingness of so many to consider the bigger picture.

[ghaverkamp]

The people who regard stereotypes as factual are at the same level as those who claim they should be avoided at all times. Bigots on one side and Compassion Fascists on the other. They deserve one another -- they exist to annoy -- but they don't deserve the rest of us, those who can go with the flow and enjoy the ride, and it's too bad when we feel it necessary to pussy-foot around them. But we roll with that too.

 

If the world involved only people who rolled with the flow, that might be a fine position to take.

[Deadboy]

Despite the nice "sticks and stones" platitudes, the reason the terms are offensive is because they reinforce stereotypes.

 

Or maybe they're poking fun at the stereotypes.

 

You mean the same folks who cannot even acknowledge these issues exist? Give me a break; you simply cannot have it both ways....

Sure you can -- and do, we all do. Stereotypes are fun. The key is knowing they're stereotypes, knowing you're having fun with them and knowing your audience knows the same. I tend to be careful with them in places like this, and with writing in general, because you never know who that audience might be. It's mostly about context, but a lot of people, it seems to me, go around looking to be offended, completely ignoring context. And while I believe such people deserve what they're looking for, it doesn't benefit me to be the one who'll deliver the offense.

 

With a name like "Cavanaugh," I'm a Mick. Micks like to drink and fight. But I'm also from Montana, so that makes me a Hick, too, and a Redneck. In college once I had to go to the student health center to have my hand x-rayed for a possible fracture. The nurse in the exam room looked at her clipboard and said, "Cavanaugh, huh? Did you break it in a fight?" It caught me off guard for a moment and I felt a wee twinge of offense. But then I saw her name tag... WISNEWSKI.

 

"Yeah," I replied. "I cracked it on some dumb pollack's block head."

 

She laughed and told me it was her married name, that her maiden name was MORAN, but that her husband was in fact a dumb pollack.

 

It's part of life. Sometimes we tell jokes and sometimes we're the butt of jokes. The people who regard stereotypes as factual are at the same level as those who claim they should be avoided at all times. Bigots on one side and Compassion Fascists on the other. They deserve one another -- they exist to annoy -- but they don't deserve the rest of us, those who can go with the flow and enjoy the ride, and it's too bad when we feel it necessary to pussy-foot around them. But we roll with that too.

 

Well put, but (as you noted) the examples you cited were in person situations, and I will be the first to admit that sometimes what I say in person (among friends) would most likely be offensive to someone who did not know me....but this is a public forum and even though many of us do in fact know each other it is still not the same...

 

And anyone who thinks blonds are an actual ethnic group has larger problems....

 

Also that ham photo is just too funny....

[SeanC]

Right. It's not about drawing lines.... it's about the "bigger picture."

[russell_bynum]

Everyone, I suspect, draws the line somewhere. It kind of tickles me to see some folks get so sanctimonious just because they draw the line in a different place than someone else does.

 

Yeah, that's what I find so funny about this as well.

[SageRider]

Also that ham photo is just too funny....

and yet it is extremely likely that someone somewhere is highly offended by the photo and what it may imply. Was the object of the photo created out of malice or ignorance. Once again context and intent matters.

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

Also that ham photo is just too funny....

and yet it is extremely likely that someone somewhere is highly offended by the photo and what it may imply. Was the object of the photo created out of malice or ignorance. Once again context and intent matters.

 

Why would anyone be offended? All it implies is that the proprietor of the store (or the stocking clerk) is clueless.

 

Once when I was in school, the print edition of The Onion ran a full-page "ad" with a photo of Arnold Schwarzenegger and the following caption:

 

"I just want to wish everyone a merry Christmas and happy new year. Oh, and to all you jews out there, happy Chewbacca."

 

I thought it was hilarious. Showed it to a friend of mine, and her knee-jerk reaction was that it was offensive because it made fun of jews. I thought it had nothing at all to do with jews, and that the only one who ought to have been offended by it was Schwarzenegger.

[Deadboy]

What would be offensive is if the store owner refused to to remove the sign and told the offended person to "grow up" if they requested it be removed...otherwise it is just an honest mistake....and a funny one at that....

[russell_bynum]

What would be offensive is if the store owner refused to to remove the sign and told the offended person to "grow up" if they requested it be removed...otherwise it is just an honest mistake....and a funny one at that....

 

I swear...some of you folks would be offended by your own shadows.

[gottago]

[general copment, not responding to anyone in particular]

 

One may not see the harm in use of the term 'Japanese' if is isn't meant in a derogatory way but my view would be that if any group is offended for any rational reason then I avoid use of a specific term/image/etc. If it offends someone then why not just avoid use of the term? Seems like the polite thing to do.

+1 and I think the key word here is "rational".

[TyTass]

Fortunately, there's far less white-against-white discrimination today than there has been in the past, which makes it far easier to ignore the broader implications of the various derogatory ethnic and racial terms.

 

Greg, you are indeed drawing lines ... timelines and probably lines of severity.

 

How recently must a "group" have been oppressed for it to pass your litmus test of "worthy of being sensitive?" As a reader of American History I submit that discrimination of European immigrants occurred well into this century. The effect of that discrimination of those families arriving just prior to WWII is still being experienced by those families today. Granted, one could argue that because they were not rounded up and put into internment camps, their pain and suffering would clearly be less than the Japanese-Americans. But then we are drawing a line on the degree of their suffering.

 

What are your criteria for identifying when a person can "rightfully" be offended?

[Deadboy]

What would be offensive is if the store owner refused to to remove the sign and told the offended person to "grow up" if they requested it be removed...otherwise it is just an honest mistake....and a funny one at that....

 

I swear...some of you folks would be offended by your own shadows.

 

Trying to take into consideration other people feelings and religious beliefs is not something I wish to make fun of nor take lightly...you clearly have a different opinion and are free to act accordingly...then again you could just type the word Japanese....or say you want to get the best price/deal, but that would apparently be asking too much of you...

[steve.foote]

Right. It's not about drawing lines.... it's about the "bigger picture."

 

Sean, he's too busy drawing sanctimonious lines about sanctimonious lines to understand your point.

[steve.foote]

Why would anyone be offended? All it implies is that the proprietor of the store (or the stocking clerk) is clueless.

 

Using the logic of many on this thread, couldn't the case be made that the clueless proprietor or stocking clerk could be offended?

[Firefight911]

Regardless of the outcome of this thread, Frank got what he wanted.

 

12 pages and he hasn't been heard of since page 3.

 

Some pretty good free advertising irrespective of your opinion/thoughts/stand concerning the subject matter.

[steve.foote]

Regardless of the outcome of this thread, Frank got what he wanted.

 

12 pages and he hasn't been heard of since page 3.

 

Some pretty good free advertising irrespective of your opinion/thoughts/stand concerning the subject matter.

 

Considering his primary stock and trade, I'd say he is getting exactly what he had hoped for.

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

Why would anyone be offended? All it implies is that the proprietor of the store (or the stocking clerk) is clueless.

 

Using the logic of many on this thread, couldn't the case be made that the clueless proprietor or stocking clerk could be offended?

 

IMHO You could make a case for embarrassment, but not offense.

[russell_bynum]

Trying to take into consideration other people feelings and religious beliefs is not something I wish to make fun of nor take lightly...you clearly have a different opinion and are free to act accordingly...then again you could just type the word Japanese....or say you want to get the best price/deal, but that would apparently be asking too much of you...

 

Nah...I try not to take very much seriously, and I think one of the most important things we can do as a society is learn to laugh at ourselves and each other.

 

I forwarded Mich's "And to all the Jews out here, happy Chewbacca" bit to a friend at work who's wife is Jewish. He forwarded it to her and I can hear her laughing on the other end of the conversation over the phone 3 cubes away.

 

Racism, bigotry, and religious intolerance are very important issues, but that's just fun.

 

If you want to find offense in something, you probably will. Perhaps those who find malice and wrongdoing in everything are merely feeling guilty about their own personal prejudices?

 

And given that I type "Japanese Bike" to save time, I think I'll just call them "J-bikes" from now on. It seems that would solve the problem on all fronts since it avoids the word in question with it's negative connotations from 60+ years ago, and saves me even more time.

[TyTass]

You sure you live in California?

 

"only to those who find it offensive"

 

Well no doubt...I think that is the real point....all of us can assure ourselves we are "one of the good ones" and it is "other people" who mean something offensive when they use a derogative term....but the rub on this entire thread is an Asian person has raised the point that a specific term is offensive to him, and instead of acknowledging that, many folks seem to think they can just assure him they "don't mean it" or that he should "grow up" and frankly that is something I find pathetic.

 

Growing up around a bunch of racist folks (of any ethnicity) and then trying to use that as a justification for continuing that type of behavior is equally baffling....my grandmother had another term for Brazil nuts that I will not post here, nor will I use it the next time I am at the store….but apparently that is all the justification needed for some of us....sad really....

Do you have some idea of the amount of stereotying you have engaged in with your first statement?

 

I doubt you really presume all Californians think alike? I doubt that you feel so adequately sensitive that you presume yourself qualified to speak for all Californians (unless they elected you)? Might I not infer from your post that you feel Californians have a better handle on speaking without giving offense?

 

My point is that stereotyping is what people do - good or bad ... just like you did. I'm sure you didn't mean to imply that Russell should think like you (and the rest of California) because Californians are better in tune with sensitivity than the rest of the country. Despite your not meaning to say it or even imply it ... your meaning was unmistakable (because I am looking for such a statement as justification of my position). Now what do you do? You either justify your actions as ignorance of the offesive nature of your language or you apologize and tell the person that you gave offense to that you didn't mean what you said. Your sincerity of your apology would be all you have (just as Fernando was getting at - he didn't mean to give offense).

 

From this and a few of your subsequent posts, you seem to believe that race/enticity the only reason for watching what you say (e.g., dumb blondes are not an ethnic group.). If you are so sensitive, so cautious with your speach (while the rest of us are pathetic ), how could you dismiss the centuries of discrimination and yes, subjegation of women which can still be argued as ongoing? Why do they not hold a special place in your way of thinking?

 

<A bit of sarcasm here ...> Please enlighten us all with an updated set of words and rules that would give us such a grasp of the English launguage that no words I/we speak could ever be interpretted any other way by listener.

 

My point is, you are arguing that this is so tremendously obvious when it truly is not.

[Lawman]

Regardless of the outcome of this thread, Frank got what he wanted.

 

12 pages and he hasn't been heard of since page 3.

 

Some pretty good free advertising irrespective of your opinion/thoughts/stand concerning the subject matter.

Agreed..He comes to a BMW motorcycle forum, initiates a thread, and without any context given for his being offended by the term"Japanese bike" he suggests we should all stop using it, (because the term offends HIM), when referring to bikes that are made in Japan. He's not offended.. He's offending..He's trolling to start a controversy regarding an issue that he well knows is highly charged. He has a cause, a mission if you will and he throws it out there as if it is hardly more than a passing thought....He wants to change people..I'll bet he is quite happy here..

[SeanC]

Well put, but (as you noted) the examples you cited were in person situations,

Do you really think the only times I've encountered stereotypes regarding Irishness were in person? A cop appears in a cartoon... Quick, what's his accent? How about the priest? A large, well-known midwestern university has as its mascot a little red-haired man (his stunted growth quite possibly the result of fetal alcoholism) with his fists up looking for a fight. Their nickname? The "Fighting Irish." Where does the Rainbow Coalition stand on this?

 

A lesser-known but nonetheless large university in San Diego are called the Aztecs. Their mascot was a tall, dark-skinned, fierce-looking, well-muscled warrior who would gallop into the stadium carrying a spear and wearing little more than his headdress and loincloth. Critics were offended by the historical inaccuracies. The Aztecs didn't have horses for starters, but Aztec kings also apparently wore long robes adorned with brightly-colored feathers, and would never carry on in public, gesticulate wildly, etc. Ignore for the time being that as a race, there are no Aztecs walking the earth. Yet somehow certain people -- none or very few of whom attend said university -- found this mascot offensive. Offensive. I guess because the Aztecs once lived in a region that is now Mexico, a small but vocal group known as La Raza -- the race (is there only the one, I wonder?) -- led a charge to abandon the ferocious warrior mascot and adopt a "culturally sensitive" and more historically accurate one. Enter pudgy guy in flowing robes and Vegas-esque headdress who walked respectfully and reverently about the stadium. The students hated it. Hated it.

 

So what's the difference here? Well, for starters, the Irish immigrant population in this country established itself before the Era of Victimization, before people went to great lengths to find ways to be offended, before Americans lost the ability to laugh at themselves. I'm sure had the Irish immigration occurred much later than the 1850s, people would not tolerate Fighting Leprechauns, either as school mascots or breakfast cereal pitchmen. But as history played out, such things don't offend us. We're not looking to be offended. We've found a squelch knob to adjust the cultural sensitivity on our receivers (rather than cranking up the signal way past Ridiculous).

 

Besides, the volunteer docents of the "bigger picture" don't really consider the Irish as part of the Cultural Collection.

 

And anyone who thinks blonds are an actual ethnic group has larger problems....

Uh-oh... we've long referred to my mom and her relatives as the "blond side of the family." At least we stopped calling her "meat-head."

[Deadboy]

You sure you live in California?

 

"only to those who find it offensive"

 

Well no doubt...I think that is the real point....all of us can assure ourselves we are "one of the good ones" and it is "other people" who mean something offensive when they use a derogative term....but the rub on this entire thread is an Asian person has raised the point that a specific term is offensive to him, and instead of acknowledging that, many folks seem to think they can just assure him they "don't mean it" or that he should "grow up" and frankly that is something I find pathetic.

 

Growing up around a bunch of racist folks (of any ethnicity) and then trying to use that as a justification for continuing that type of behavior is equally baffling....my grandmother had another term for Brazil nuts that I will not post here, nor will I use it the next time I am at the store….but apparently that is all the justification needed for some of us....sad really....

Do you have some idea of the amount of stereotying you have engaged in with your first statement?

 

I doubt you really presume all Californians think alike? I doubt that you feel so adequately sensitive that you presume yourself qualified to speak for all Californians (unless they elected you)? Might I not infer from your post that you feel Californians have a better handle on speaking without giving offense?

 

My point is that stereotyping is what people do - good or bad ... just like you did. I'm sure you didn't mean to imply that Russell should think like you (and the rest of California) because Californians are better in tune with sensitivity than the rest of the country. Despite your not meaning to say it or even imply it ... your meaning was unmistakable (because I am looking for such a statement as justification of my position). Now what do you do? You either justify your actions as ignorance of the offesive nature of your language or you apologize and tell the person that you gave offense to that you didn't mean what you said.

 

From this and a few of your subsequent posts, you seem to believe that race/enticity the only reason for watching what you say (e.g., dumb blondes are not an ethnic group.). If you are so sensitive, so cautious with your speach (while the rest of us are pathetic ), how could you dismiss the centuries of discrimination and yes, subjegation of women which can still be argued and ongoing? Why do they not hold a special place in your way of thinking?

 

<A bit of sarcasm here ...> Please enlighten us all with an updated set of words and rules that would give us such a grasp of the English launguage that no words I/we speak could ever be interpretted any other way by listener.

 

My point is, you are arguing that this is so tremendously obvious when it truly is not.

 

Spare me the lecture, and yes, I do speak for all of California...didn't you get the memo? It was in Spanish so you may need a translator....

 

As for "the list" of words that are offensive, it changes, as society does....or some of us do....and instead of trying to defend our right to say something that others find offensive perhaps it would be useful to try and understand their perspective and ask why if we truly do not understand (which I seriously doubt was the case in most of the posts) instead of telling them to "grow up" as many felt the need to do here...

[beemerman2k]

I swear...some of you folks would be offended by your own shadows.

 

Why? 'cause they're black?

 

I demand an apology from everyone on this board!

 

How about blond jokes?

 

Uh...nevermind...

 

[Joel]

Regardless of the outcome of this thread, Frank got what he wanted.

 

12 pages and he hasn't been heard of since page 3.

 

Some pretty good free advertising irrespective of your opinion/thoughts/stand concerning the subject matter.

Agreed..He comes to a BMW motorcycle forum, initiates a thread, and without any context given for his being offended by the term"Japanese bike" he suggests we should all stop using it, (because the term offends HIM), when referring to bikes that are made in Japan. He's not offended.. He's offending..He's trolling to start a controversy regarding an issue that he well knows is highly charged. He has a cause, a mission if you will and he throws it out there as if it is hardly more than a passing thought....He wants to change people..I'll bet he is quite happy here..

 

Disagreed. Frank's been a member for nearly 6 years (longer than most of the responders), is an academic with respectable credentials and a published author, dares to use his full real name to identify himself here, and writes well and in a respectful tone. Hardly seems like a troll to me. This thread wouldn't make credible research, nor is it likely to stimulate law school enrollments, donations to endowments or book sales, so I'm having a hard time seeing what is gained here other than expressing a viewpoint and encouraging thought and discussion about the use of a term that many people consider derogatory or racist. He certainly got us all thinking, didn't he?

[TyTass]

My point is, you are arguing that this is so tremendously obvious when it truly is not.

 

Spare me the lecture, and yes, I do speak for all of California...didn't you get the memo? It was in Spanish so you may need a translator....

 

As for "the list" of words that are offensive, it changes, as society does....or some of us do....and instead of trying to defend our right to say something that others find offensive perhaps it would be useful to try and understand their perspective and ask why if we truly do not understand (which I seriously doubt was the case in most of the posts) instead of telling them to "grow up" as many felt the need to do here...

Lecture? Hmm, well perhaps that could be said of many posts throughout this entire thread, your previous not withstanding in the least. I was trying to point out that your reduction of all viewpoints opposed to your own are not obviously pathetic.

 

To wit:

 

- No one challenged the use of "Japanese" as an obvious racial slur until after Frank brought this issue up.

 

- No one wrote the offending party(ies) - which inludes you, me, and Frank) - to tell them their words were obviously ill-chosen.

 

- No one from the board edited them.

 

- We now know Frank finds that offensive.

 

And you and others say it was obvious. But the conclusion is clear ... it simply wasn't obvious to many, many people because no one did anything about it. We can now choose as individuals to heed Frank's request or not (and beware the wrath of Les and the moderators).

 

And no ... I didn't get the memo!

[SeanC]

Sean, he's too busy drawing sanctimonious lines about sanctimonious lines to understand your point.

Well, Greg's a friend. I don't think he's any more sanctimonious than I am. It looks to me as if he's trying to present evidence of a logical source, a single undeniable rationale to guide all behavior with regard to cultural sensitivity, one that encompasses yet transcends individual bias and experience, accounts for all of history and arrives at some neutral center. I don't think such a rationale exists. I don't think any one big picture exists either. Someone show me the big picture, and I guarantee I can show you an even bigger one. So for an issue like this, I think it really is all about drawing lines as Dave said.

[russell_bynum]

I swear...some of you folks would be offended by your own shadows.

 

Why? 'cause they're black?

 

I demand an apology from everyone on this board!

 

 

Dude...you're a class act.

 

That's some funny stuff right there.

[Firefight911]

So, has anyone seen To Kill A Mockingbird ????

 

Let's find the relevance and benefit of this conversation and relate it to this fine example!

 

Their is no sarcasm in my voice. Attempting a serious addition to this post. That may, in and of itself, offend many!

[beemerman2k]

THIS is diversity is action! James is James. He relies on his mind to define himself.

 

TyTass: Somehow, I missed this post until you pointed it out to me in your PM. Thank you, kind words indeed.

 

I'll tell you what I am, and these are the most sincere words I have ever expressed on this forum. I am truly, seriously, so so grateful to be an American, and to live in a free society. I really am.

 

Everyday, I see news reports of impoverished people dying at the hands of tyrants or begging for food or risking life and limb just for the hope that their children can live in a free society! As a parent, I can appreciate what drives them to do that, and I respect them for it.

 

As a parent, I am also so grateful that I can look my 3 little black daughters in the face and tell them honestly, without blushing or shame, that they live in a country where they can truly become anything they desire -- so long as they're willing to work hard and to pay the price in terms of personal sacrifices. Yes, there is discrimination, but in the grand scheme of things, if you don't make it to the top, it will likely be for reasons having nothing to do with your race or gender.

 

So I thrive as an American. I really do. And I am so grateful to this country for all it has done for me and mine since even prior to the Civil War! (How's that for a major un-PC position to take)

 

No, in the grand scheme of things, I have no problems that would make God's top 10,000,000,000 list of prayers to answer today.

 

Honestly, this is what drives me more than anything else. I am just grateful to raise my beautiful girls in this great country.

[Firefight911]

THIS is diversity is action! James is James. He relies on his mind to define himself.

 

TyTass: Somehow, I missed this post until you pointed it out to me in your PM. Thank you, kind words indeed.

 

I'll tell you what I am, and these are the most sincere words I have ever expressed on this forum. I am truly, seriously, so so grateful to be an American, and to live in a free society. I really am.

 

Everyday, I see news reports of impoverished people dying at the hands of tyrants or begging for food or risking life and limb just for the hope that their children can live in a free society! As a parent, I can appreciate what drives them to do that, and I respect them for it.

 

As a parent, I am also so grateful that I can look my 3 little black daughters in the face and tell them honestly, without blushing or shame, that they live in a country where they can truly become anything they desire -- so long as they're willing to work hard and to pay the price in terms of personal sacrifices. Yes, there is discrimination, but in the grand scheme of things, if you don't make it to the top, it will likely be for reasons having nothing to do with your race or gender.

 

So I thrive as an American. I really do. And I am so grateful to this country for all it has done for me and mine since even prior to the Civil War! (How's that for a major un-PC position to take)

 

No, in the grand scheme of things, I have no problems that would make God's top 10,000,000,000 list of prayers to answer today.

 

Honestly, this is what drives me more than anything else. I am just grateful to raise my beautiful girls in this great country.

 

That right there makes me so very proud of this country and fills me with pride, as a veteran and the first born American of my family.

 

[Laura]

Do tell...why is "Oriental" now offensive? And what would the correct term-du-jour (hopefully I didn't offend any French people) be?

 

According to my Korean friend......oriental is a rug, Asian is what is preferred.

[hANNAbONE]

iS tHIS thread STILL going..!! daaaaaaaaaaaaaang