Der Kaiser Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 neat fix, let me know if your selling them and how much !! Link to comment
longjohn Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 neat fix, let me know if your selling them and how much !! +1 Some cracks are apparent already. Link to comment
10ovr Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 neat fix, let me know if your selling them and how much !! +1 Some cracks are apparent already. Dam work keeps getting in the way,,but I'll get her done,,,, Link to comment
Dave_in_TX Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Looks like I'm getting my money's worth out of my extended waranty. This was a very timely thread for me. I have less than three weeks left on the extended warranty. Thanks to this thread, I decided to check my fuel pump outlet - yep, the cracks are there on my 07 RT. Surprisingly, with 133k on the bike, the cracks are smaler than many of the bikes with much less mileage. BMW must been aware of the problem since there is a new updated part with reinforcement around the outlet. Here's a couple of pictures of the new unit, courtesy of Robert at Lonestar. Link to comment
w2ge Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I wonder when that part became a production piece? I guess I could go to the microfiche? Link to comment
TestPilot Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Dave, Do you have a part number? Link to comment
David13 Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I think I am looking at a metal ring that is the reinforcement of which you speak. I don't see the right item on the MaxBMW parts fiche. I am also looking at Continental on the assembly, rather than Siemens. So is this not also a different manufacturer? dc Link to comment
StuGotz Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 And why wouldn't it be a different manufacturer? To come up with a fix for the Siemens part would be admitting guilt. Wonder who the blame lies with now, BMW or Siemens..? Jus' sayin' MB> Link to comment
Kitsap Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 And why wouldn't it be a different manufacturer? To come up with a fix for the Siemens part would be admitting guilt. Wonder who the blame lies with now, BMW or Siemens..? Jus' sayin' MB> In the world of supplier management BMW would be seen as at fault; they would buy off the supplier design as meeting the BMW fit, form and function requirements. Link to comment
ragtoplvr Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 A supplier change on that part is very interesting. That looks to be a injection molded part, the die to mold that part is very expensive. There could be a several dollar per part cost just for the tool to make it. BMW must have made the former supplier pretty mad. Rod Link to comment
Guest Kakugo Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Very interesting, thanks for sharing. My late 2009 RT has the usual Siemens fuel pump hence this must be a later fix. Could you please provide the Continental pump parts number, just out of curiosity? With the number at hand I can ask my BMW dealership if it's a US specific fix or not. This could well be a similar fix to what Honda did with the first FI Varadero. They developed a new ECU to solve low rpm stuttering and idling issues but fitted it not as part of a recall campaign but on a one on one basis. Link to comment
TestPilot Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Very interesting, thanks for sharing. My late 2009 RT has the usual Siemens fuel pump hence this must be a later fix. Could you please provide the Continental pump parts number, just out of curiosity? With the number at hand I can ask my BMW dealership if it's a US specific fix or not. This could well be a similar fix to what Honda did with the first FI Varadero. They developed a new ECU to solve low rpm stuttering and idling issues but fitted it not as part of a recall campaign but on a one on one basis. If BMW plans to replace defective units as necessary, there may be a Service Bulletin to that effect. The bulletin may also describe how owners who replaced defective units at their own expense could get reimbursed. Does anyone have access to BMW Service Bulletins? Link to comment
Guest Kakugo Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Karl, I have the 50000km service coming up soon (I am delaying in case of troubles of ESA since I am waiting for the Wilbers to turn up). Be assured I will ask my dealer about service bulletins. I was asking about the parts number because I have to go order new bolts for shocks and since I know the people down at the spare parts service I can have them running a search for me, no questions asked. Link to comment
TestPilot Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Just a comment on the Continental vs. Siemens name on the fuel pump assembly - Continemtal bought Siemens VDO in 2007. Link to comment
CoarsegoldKid Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I checked mine today. Not leaking yet but it doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling. Complaint with NHTSA submitted. Link to comment
Dave_in_TX Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Dave, Do you have a part number? Sorry, no I don't. I was just sharing what I got from the dealer. Link to comment
David13 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 So I have heard. http://www.bmwmoa.org/forum/showthread.php?p=742196#post742196 Link to comment
CoarsegoldKid Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I could be wrong but I don't think the new version will be directly compatible with the older bikes. My '05 has two rubber hoses going to the system. The picture only shows one as far as I can tell. Link to comment
dbrick Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I could be wrong but I don't think the new version will be directly compatible with the older bikes. My '05 has two rubber hoses going to the system. The picture only shows one as far as I can tell. There are two connections, and both show: one has a six-inch length of rubber hose connected to it, and the other is the screwed-in female half of the QD. David Brick Santa Cruz CA 2007 R1200R Link to comment
TestPilot Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I think what Joe meant was that, in addition to the quick disconnect, there are two hoses connected to the fuel pump flange by hose clamps. The hose with the quick disconnect is the supply line to the fuel pressure regulator. One of the two other hoses is the fuel return line, and the last hose is the vent line that drains from the small hole in the flange just inside the fuel filler cap. Link to comment
John in VA Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Yikes, the 3-year extended warranty on my '06 RT runs out February 17. I'd better pull the tupperware and take a look soon. I wonder if heat under the tupperware is a factor or if it's just age? Link to comment
CoarsegoldKid Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I think what Joe meant was that, in addition to the quick disconnect, there are two hoses connected to the fuel pump flange by hose clamps. The hose with the quick disconnect is the supply line to the fuel pressure regulator. One of the two other hoses is the fuel return line, and the last hose is the vent line that drains from the small hole in the flange just inside the fuel filler cap. What he said. Makes me wonder if the new improved flange is now available in an upgraded part for the older bikes. Link to comment
ESokoloff Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Makes me wonder if the new improved flange is now available in an upgraded part for the older bikes. I have to think that would be unlikely until an official recall. Link to comment
TestPilot Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Looking at the second picture that Dave_in_TX provided in post #754389, I believe the vent line would attach to the small conical shaped bump between the return line and the fuel level sensor plug. This position matches what I've seen in the BMW RepROM. Link to comment
dirtrider Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Looking at the second picture that Dave_in_TX provided in post #754389, I believe the vent line would attach to the small conical shaped bump between the return line and the fuel level sensor plug. This position matches what I've seen in the BMW RepROM. Evening Karl The vent line comes out of the top front of the tank (doesn't pass through the pump assembly), then goes on to the evap canister up in the right front. The line that passes through the fuel pump assembly is the water drain from the filler cap area not a vent line. Link to comment
TestPilot Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 DR, I agree. But there is also a vent from the flange inside the fuel filler cap. I believe the small hole in that flange is supposed to allow water to drain. The vent tube runs down into the tank and exits through the fuel pump assembly flange. Link to comment
dirtrider Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Evening Karl Not vent line, that's a water drain line, it drains water off the fuel filler cap ring depression. Link to comment
TestPilot Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 True, but the parts fiche calls it a breather line, which sounds like a vent to me. Link to comment
Limecreek Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Well I knew it was just a matter of time. My K1200GT is leaking. I have an extended warranty that should cover replacement. I filed a report with the NHTSA. Link to comment
Guest Kakugo Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I can confirm the problem also affects European bikes and it's well known on our shores too. I am still waiting for a reply whether or not BMW will shoulder at least part of the costs and reimburse owners who replaced the part at their expenses. Link to comment
10ovr Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Well I knew it was just a matter of time. My K1200GT is leaking. I have an extended warranty that should cover replacement. I filed a report with the NHTSA. When you bring it in ,Ask to see the new pump and see if it has the new metal collar ,,,,,,,,,, Link to comment
Lone_RT_rider Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I am also looking at Continental on the assembly, rather than Siemens. So is this not also a different manufacturer? Continental and Siemens merged. It is most likely the same division and plant, just with a different sign on the building. Shawn Link to comment
wsg112 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Filled report with the NTHSA today. My 2005 with 24000 miles has the same problem. What's it going to take for BMW to step up and fix this issue? Link to comment
CoarsegoldKid Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Filled report with the NTHSA today. My 2005 with 24000 miles has the same problem. What's it going to take for BMW to step up and fix this issue? A decrease in sales, complaints to local dealer's General Manager? I have no idea. Don't hold your breath. Link to comment
basilr Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Joe, when or if you are talking to your lawyer about this issue, ask him if Canadian owners of bikes with this problem can join a class action suit. I know it has been done in other cases, but each one may be unique. If there is strength in numbers, the Great White North may be able to help. Basil Link to comment
black99S Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Joe, when or if you are talking to your lawyer about this issue, ask him if Canadian owners of bikes with this problem can join a class action suit. Basil My 06 shows signs of cracks initiating - saw this when I replaced the failed Fuel Pump Controller I just called TRANSPORT CANADA and registered a complaint. http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/roadsafety/safevehicles-defectinvestigations-index-76.htm The guy was very professional and interested - seemed like it made his day interesting! During the call he searched and turned up multiple threads on the issue - I gave him the link to this thread. So if you are in Canada - call 1-800-333-0510 (toll-free, Canada only) or 1-819-994-3328 (Gatineau-Ottawa region or international) and lodge a complaint. Link to comment
TestPilot Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Joe, when or if you are talking to your lawyer about this issue, ask him if Canadian owners of bikes with this problem can join a class action suit. Basil My 06 shows signs of cracks initiating - saw this when I replaced the failed Fuel Pump Controller Is there a Canadian Equivalent to NHTSA we can register complaints to? I did a little searching and found the Transport Canada web site (English version): Link. Click on "Road" in the menu across the top. On the following page, under "I want to", click on "Report a manufacturing-related problem with my vehicle." Link to comment
Bruce H Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Some good photos and fix at this link; http://www.gunsmoke.com/motorcycling/r1200gs/quick_connects/index.html Link to comment
lawnchairboy Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Yep.... 2006 RT, nov 05 built I think. 55k miles. multiple cracks. will submit per the thread. ODI # 10445258 Link to comment
longjohn Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Some good photos and fix at this link; http://www.gunsmoke.com/motorcycling/r1200gs/quick_connects/index.html Haha, yeah if you're a machinist. Rather alarming statements in that link about the plasticizers being leached out of the plastic parts of the fuel components causing them to become brittle, and Bmw knowing about it when they contracted for the parts. Sheesh. Link to comment
TestPilot Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Some good photos and fix at this link; http://www.gunsmoke.com/motorcycling/r1200gs/quick_connects/index.html Haha, yeah if you're a machinist. Rather alarming statements in that link about the plasticizers being leached out of the plastic parts of the fuel components causing them to become brittle, and Bmw knowing about it when they contracted for the parts. Sheesh. If the information could be verified, it would make an excellent supplemental report to NHTSA. Link to comment
Rob L Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 You guys got me worried! I have 38000 miles on my 2006 RT and was expecting to see cracks. Just checked...no cracks I used a mirror and a flashlight because I didn't feel like pulling the tupperware completely off again. I had it off last weekend to check valves, plugs and throttle synch. This is something that I will keep an eye on every time that I do service from now on Link to comment
w2ge Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2010-BMW-R1200RT-Fuel-Tank-Used-OEM-LKQ-9015058K26KA-/200698630270?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item2eba92107e#ht_3060wt_1139 This might be of interest to someone.. 2010 fuel tank with fuel pump, but pick-up only.. $99 BUX!, buy-it-now Great if your by Topeka, KS. Link to comment
okennon Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 My'07 RT began leaking in the fall '09. Please allow a few tips for those of us non machinist/engineers. No need to remove the fuel tank or the pump assembly. No need to tip bike attempting level.Four minute setup liqui-weld stuff eliminates that need.Acetone scrub after rough up(I used a dremel).I bought a piece of 3/16 aluminum from Lowes and used a 1"spade bit. 1" is a little larger than the flange but it worked well in allowing the epoxy to squeeze up and fill. Word of advice..I got a little glue on the underside of the quick release mechanism..that crap gave me a fit before I managed to cleaned it so protect that with tape or something. Sorry don't know how to poat a pic. Link to comment
eej1 Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Checked mine, a 2005 R1200RT, and It has cracks but not leaking yet. Filed the report with NHST. Link to comment
Paul Mihalka Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 After all the comments here and on ADVrider, I checked mine. '05 R1200GS, many miles, no cracks! I wonder why some crack and some don't. I hope having posted this, mine does not start leaking tomorrow. Link to comment
Nice n Easy Rider Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 After all the comments here and on ADVrider, I checked mine. '05 R1200GS, many miles, no cracks! I wonder why some crack and some don't. I hope having posted this, mine does not start leaking tomorrow. Paul, I'm guessing that you're much better at avoiding the potholes than most of us! Link to comment
mrzoom Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Cracks on mine too. Report filed. Boy ,the pre-flight check list gets longer and longer. Link to comment
OoPEZoO Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 After all the comments here and on ADVrider, I checked mine. '05 R1200GS, many miles, no cracks! I wonder why some crack and some don't. I hope having posted this, mine does not start leaking tomorrow. It could have to do with how tight the original parts were torqued together at the factory. Mine has 6 cracks, one directly below each of corner of the hex on the threaded quick disconnect insert. When I removed it from the bung on the fuel pump flange it was easy to tell that it had been over torqued. The plastic was deformed on the face of the threaded bung, and the bottom of the threaded insert. Over torquing, soft plastic fittings, gasoline, a bad design to begin with........I think all of it combined together is causing the failures. If yours was torqued properly and didn't damage the bung, then it might never have a problem. Link to comment
Alan D Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 After all the comments here and on ADVrider, I checked mine. '05 R1200GS, many miles, no cracks! I wonder why some crack and some don't. I hope having posted this, mine does not start leaking tomorrow. It could have to do with how tight the original parts were torqued together at the factory. Mine has 6 cracks, one directly below each of corner of the hex on the threaded quick disconnect insert. When I removed it from the bung on the fuel pump flange it was easy to tell that it had been over torqued. The plastic was deformed on the face of the threaded bung, and the bottom of the threaded insert. Over torquing, soft plastic fittings, gasoline, a bad design to begin with........I think all of it combined together is causing the failures. If yours was torqued properly and didn't damage the bung, then it might never have a problem. Mine is exactly the same. Link to comment
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