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The dreaded R1200RT Fuel Pump Leak Strikes Again


Joe_Rocket

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----the controller looks like new, but I need to learn more about it.

 

 

Afternoon twkBMW

 

 

"Looks" on the FPC can be very deceiving. They don't fail on the outside. Moisture wicks in & ruins the electronics. If it is silver in color your chances of a failure on the road are elevated. If it has short fins the failure possibility is even greater.

 

So far I have heard of one of the later (updated) black FPC's failing but I haven't seen one myself yet & I know of no one in my area or riding groups that have had a black (powder coated) FPC fail.

 

In any case-- on your FPC put a little dielectric grease on the top of the top wire connector then bend the wire harness so the wires don't go straight down into the connector (you don't want water running down the wire harness & sitting on top of the wire connector).

 

Still, with a silver FPC the best thing to do is ALWAYS have an FPC jumper harness with you & know how to use it.

 

 

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Lastly, is the fuel strip failing but you will know that as the gas gauge will quit working.

 

Or you will know it when you run out of gas in the middle of nowhere because the damn thing shows half a tank of gas. DAMHIK :mad:

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DR

I have lately been theorizing that there may be more than one cause for the fpc failure.

I know the humidity in your area, and generally 'back east' but mine failed in a totally dry environment.

Thus I am looking for other possible causes, like the heat, or heat dissipation issue. And I have found I'm not the only one considering the heat issue.

Deline

I never use the fuel gauge. I go by miles traveled.

dc

 

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----the controller looks like new, but I need to learn more about it.

 

 

Afternoon twkBMW

 

 

"Looks" on the FPC can be very deceiving. They don't fail on the outside. Moisture wicks in & ruins the electronics. If it is silver in color your chances of a failure on the road are elevated. If it has short fins the failure possibility is even greater.

 

So far I have heard of one of the later (updated) black FPC's failing but I haven't seen one myself yet & I know of no one in my area or riding groups that have had a black (powder coated) FPC fail.

 

In any case-- on your FPC put a little dielectric grease on the top of the top wire connector then bend the wire harness so the wires don't go straight down into the connector (you don't want water running down the wire harness & sitting on top of the wire connector).

 

Still, with a silver FPC the best thing to do is ALWAYS have an FPC jumper harness with you & know how to use it.

 

 

Here is a good link for the FPC.

 

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2768376&postcount=21

 

Of course, mine is silver with fins. I will pull it and see how it looks. Not much water, but lots of extreme heat where I live.

 

I wil put some silicone grease on the o ring seal if all is clean.

 

Where are you saying to put dielectric grease? On the top of the wires on the connetor?

 

Thanks.

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---- I will put some silicone grease on the o ring seal if all is clean.

 

Where are you saying to put dielectric grease? On the top of the wires on the connetor?

 

 

Evening twkBMW

 

Yes, definitely clean & grease the seal with silicone based dielectric grease.

 

Then bend the harness over so any water landing on the harness doesn't want to run down the wire pig tail & sit on top of the connector. Then put a dab of dielectric grease on top of the connector shown & lightly work it in to seal the top of the connector at the wire entry area.

 

What happens is the electrical connector is sealed but not sealed tightly enough. As the fuel tank & surrounding areas heat up the air space inside the connector & connector cavity also heats up & expands. That heated air expands & slowly escapes until the interior pressure matches the exterior atmospheric pressure. Then (if) some water sits on top of the connector it gets slowly sucked in as the interior of the connector cools & forms a negative pressure (vacuum).

 

Same with the cavity under the FPC, that large cavity is basically sealed so when the fuel in the tank & tank area heats up that forces the air trapped in that cavity to expand & slowly seep out until it neutralizes with surrounding air pressure. Then when everything cools off that cavity goes to negative pressure (vacuum) & can suck in a bit of moisture if moisture is present at the connector or surrounding seal. BMW went to a better seal around the FPC but I still have my doubts that it will withstand a long term vacuum with water sitting around the FPC & seal.

 

I my estimation that well below the FPC should be vented to allow both air expansion & contraction without sucking moisture in.

 

The auto companies fought with that same problem with front-of-engine low mounted ignition distributors. All kinds of vents were tried but the problem was finding a way to vent into a moisture free area. On certain vehicles the answer was to vent into the air cleaner housing with a second (restricted) vacuum line into the intake manifold. That allowed continuous venting & purging & no more moisture issues. I was going to do this on my 1200RT until the black updated FPC came out. So far the black FPC seems to be better at withstanding moisture as there seems to be very few failures of the black FPC's.

 

Fulepumppasswire.jpg

 

 

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I also spayed lithium grease all around and over the top/sides.

I hope it does more good then bad.:)

 

Evening I812

 

Remember that FPC has to handle a fair amount of current. That makes heat & is why the FPC has those cooling fins. If you sprayed something on the FPC that hinders the cooling function of those cooling fins that is probably not a desirable side effect.

 

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Well I did the JB Weld thing. Now the bike won't start.

 

Battery is good. Disconnected it while was working on the bike. Something about gasoline and sparks on the outside of the engine that bothers me. Cranks well but won't start. :(

 

Any ideas?

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Evening Trajan

 

First thing, make sure you don't have the side stand down & trans in gear.

 

Then make sure the fuel line quick disconnect it FULLY seated. (partially on will not pass gasoline).

 

Can you hear the fuel pump run at first key on?

 

If still no start did you do a TPS re-learn after reconnecting the battery? Key on (do not start) slowly fully open & close the throttle twice? If not, disconnect the battery for 30 seconds then re-connect & do the TPS re-learn.

 

Did you get ALL the wires back on the battery posts?

 

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Hey DR,

 

In the case of a cracked mounting boss repair, from your experience what would you suggest using as a sealant for the threads? (in addition to a clamping ring for support.)

 

Thanks,

 

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Evening Seth

 

I personally use P/N 12346004 - GM Teflon Pipe & Thread Sealant (with PTFE). That is what we exclusively use where I work for all our high pressure fuel injection systems with plastic to plastic & plastic to metal threaded fittings. It both fills & seals & remains somewhat compliant.

 

The only thing that stuff has going against it is that it is a bit of a lubricant so it is ever so easy to over tighten a tapered thread fitting if not careful.

 

I believe that 12346004 - GM Teflon Pipe & Thread Sealant is the same as or very close to LOCTITE 567 PST THREAD SEALANT WITH PTFE.

 

When Loctite demonstrated their LOCTITE 567 to us years ago they used our 185 PSI line air pressure flowing at full CFM then even with all that air flowing screwed a pipe cap on a tapered pipe thread to just hand tight & it totally sealed.

 

I don't what it is about those PTFE type sealants but they seem to seal securely with very little thread tightness so are ideal for use in metal to plastic tapered threads as long as you really watch the end torque on the fitting. Just a bit more than finger tight seems to be enough.

 

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D.R.,

 

In response to your tips:

 

First thing, make sure you don't have the side stand down & trans in gear.

 

// DOH!! // :D

 

Then make sure the fuel line quick disconnect it FULLY seated. (partially on will not pass gasoline).

 

// This took a little work. There is a sliding metal clip that keeps the QD in place. I am sure one of my kidz could have done it in about 30 seconds but I managed to slide it over without using a hammer. I also slid a 6 inch wire tie under the clip and over the fuel line to keep it in place as I don't have any safety wire handy. // :dopeslap:

 

 

Can you hear the fuel pump run at first key on? // Puurrrr. //

 

If still no start did you do a TPS re-learn after reconnecting the battery? Key on (do not start) slowly fully open & close the throttle twice? If not, disconnect the battery for 30 seconds then re-connect & do the TPS re-learn.

 

// Performed a TPS re-learn anyway. The local dealer said it was a 'myth' but seems to work. When it gets really wonky, I disconnect the battery for a few minutes. //

 

 

Did you get ALL the wires back on the battery posts?

 

// Yep. First thing I checked. //

 

Thank you for the tips. Bike is running fine now.

 

Trajan

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  • 1 month later...

I ordered a clamp made by 10OVR and just got around to pulling off the fairing to see if any cracks existed on the fuel pump. Just like the cracks in all the other pictures posted. I added the clamp and some JB weld. Add me to the list that has filed a complaint to the NHTSA.

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2009 RT. NO cracks but put the clamp on anyway. BIke runs great. NO FD issues yet, no fuel strips yet, etc.

 

BUt i did find a dead mouse on the garage floor. :dopeslap:

 

Giddy Up.

 

John

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  • 4 weeks later...

2008 RT. Just to add one more experience on this issue. I did not have cracks, but added the collar as a preventative measure. About a dozen rides or so (400 miles) it cracked anyway. I put some JB Weld on it and it seems to have sealed it up. I guess I have a used collar for sale if anyone wants it. I may have caused the problem since the collar seemed pretty tight to install. In hind sight I probably should have reamed it out a bit to ease the installation. Anyway I hope the weld holds. This is a long thread and I may have missed it, but has anyone had their epoxy fix start to leak again?

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So far no.

So far yes, there are a couple of cases mentioned in this thread alone (check out the last few pages prior to this one.) As was discussed I believe a compound intended to seal against high-pressure fluid would be superior to JB Weld in this application, although JB Weld has worked well for many, at least so far. The problem is once you use JB Weld there's no going back...

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I also couldn't get the collar to slip on so I used a Dremel to remove a small amount of material around the outside of the raised boss. I put JB Weld on the inside of the collar and outside of the boss, slid it on and tightened it. I would think that this is better than a thread sealant since the fitting is already cracked and compromised. Between the mechanical pressure of the collar to prevent expansion and permanent sealing nature of the epoxy the end result looked like it was going to work.

As far a JB Weld being permanent, if this fix doesn’t work then I recommend a replacement with the new housing that has be updated to include a collar around the threaded opening.

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There is a reason why there are different products for different purposes. JB Weld is great stuff but not designed to seal against high-pressure fluids. Case in point, I sealed a radiator leak with JB Weld (mix and installation done properly) but under pressure there was still a slight seepage which I could not stop. I don't know if the epoxy itself allowed the seepage, or didn't bond in a completely fluid-tight way to the surface, or what, but it leaked. There are also several reports of JB Weld leaking in the fuel pump fix application. Compromised or not, my guess is that one of the compounds designed for this purpose will work better than one that is not. And if there are any future problems, a fix with sealant can be re-applied but if JB Weld was used the only option is a new pump. At $500 I would call that a sub-optimal solution if other options are available.

 

If you have already used JB Weld an it is holding then it's all good, I'm just saying that for those yet to do the repair I'd think through all the options first.

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I have to admit I probably screwed the pooch on the repair. It might hold, but I think I will just replace the pump. I don't want it to fail if I am a fairly long way from home. I agree with those who suggest using a better sealant as opposed to JB Weld. So here are the lessons learned (at least for me)

- If the clamp is a bit tight, ream the clamp out a bit, don't force it.

- Use a sealant that is meant for gasoline.

 

 

Still love the bike.

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I just pulled the tupperware and I have the cracks and the leak on my 2005 RT with 32K on the clock. I will be ordering the clamp and a metal replacement disconnect, if that is available. I have read the entire thread and it seems to me the jury is still out on JB Weld. Permatex or something else. Am I right that you get a second chance using something other than JB Weld?

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The Permatex and other thread sealants usually dry to a semi-hard but pliable state. Most formulations are intended for fittings that may have to be separated and reassembled at a later date so yes, you get additional chances if necessary. As DR noted they can make it very easy to overtorque the fitting so use caution when assembling, especially in this application.

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Guest Kakugo
My epoxy repair failed. I replaced the pump.

 

Chris

 

Did BMW supply the new model, Continental-branded fuel pump? If so do you have the parts number?

Thanks.

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Help!I bought the clamp and installed it. Screwed the original plastic fitting in with Permatex 2. There is no leaking until I plug in the quick disconnect. Then it leaks like crazy. It sprays out. This tells me that there is no leaking through the threads or through the cracks in the housing. There is no visible cracking in the quick disconnect male plug. Am I missing something or is the problem now definitely with the quick disconnect male and/or female disconnect components?

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Afternoon Phase_III

 

Unless you firmly held the trigger in on the quick disconnect (fully depressed) during entire removal or reinstallation there is a good chance you nicked the "O" ring inside the quick disconnect.

 

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Thanks DR. Went to the shop and bought a new o ring. It still leaks, but only when the quick disconnect is connected. The BMW parts guy told me that the female part of the disconnect is not a replacement part. You can only get the male part. At this point, I am thinking I should buy a metal disconnect on the after market unless I am missing something.

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Afternoon Phase_III

 

I really don't know what you have there. It's usually the "O" ring that causes the problems.

 

Look at your disconnect (both sides) carefully with a magnifying glass for signs of a crack or the trigger not working properly.

 

Otherwise are you getting it pushed ALL the way on? It takes a pretty good push to get it completely seated all the way down. Should seat with a distinctive click.

 

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My 07 RT with 10k miles checked out fine with no cracks. Added the clamp anyway as a preventive measure. The clamp went on easy enough for me. But mine looks like it has a wider gap in the split than the photos posted here. It didn't take much to get it snug either. About the time the bolt/nut had tension, the clamp was snug.

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  • 3 weeks later...

My new to me 2007 R1200RT with 6,300 miles on it has 3 cracks. It is a Connecticut bike, not a hot season bike and I didn't expect to find this. Added the clamp to prevent future fuel leaks. My plastic part was oversize compared to the clamp, had to drill out the bolt hole so the bolt could attach and tighten. Myrl's 2009 from Reno with 25,000 miles has no cracks at this second. Have ordered another clamp for some prevention.

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Haven't been any posts to this thread in a while. Is the consensus that the BeemerBoneyard clamp is the fix?

 

Dealer called me and indicated he would need to repace my fuel pump because of a "leak". Seems like it might be more of a "crack".

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I'm not sure the clamp would stop an existing leak, but it could prevent any cracks from becoming leaks (at least that's the hope).

 

As a side note, not every R1200 model is getting the same upgraded part as the RT. I had the pump on my 2007 ST replaced (under extended warranty) due to cracks in the bung around the threaded hole. The new part for the ST has the same part number as the old one, but the bung into which the quick disconnect screws is 2 mm larger in diameter. As a result, my existing clamp won't fit. BMW apparently feels the added material will prevent cracking. Only time will tell.

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I'm not sure the clamp would stop an existing leak, but it could prevent any cracks from becoming leaks (at least that's the hope).

 

As a side note, not every R1200 model is getting the same upgraded part as the RT. I had the pump on my 2007 ST replaced (under extended warranty) due to cracks in the bung around the threaded hole. The new part for the ST has the same part number as the old one, but the bung into which the quick disconnect screws is 2 mm larger in diameter. As a result, my existing clamp won't fit. BMW apparently feels the added material will prevent cracking. Only time will tell.

About 1 out of 100 pumps has a larger bung all the way back to 05,,It well still crack,Thats why BMW now puts on the metal ring ,I have installed the clamp on the larger bung by opening up the clamp ,,,You mite have to get a longer bolt,,,but it dose work,,,
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Haven't been any posts to this thread in a while. Is the consensus that the BeemerBoneyard clamp is the fix?

 

Dealer called me and indicated he would need to repace my fuel pump because of a "leak". Seems like it might be more of a "crack".

If it is leaking from a crack in the bung it can be repaired ,,I used JB weld on my pump and I have over 45K miles on the repair,,,No Leaks,,, Install clamp,,Coat inside female pump treads and male treads on the quick release fitting with JB weld,,Screw in fitting as tight as you can by hand,,Don"t wipe of Excess coming out of the top,, Tighten clamp,( just snug it up ) let dry for 24 hours ,,Plug in you fuel line and ride,,,,Have done this repair on over 20 bike and not one has leaked,,,
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About 1 out of 100 pumps has a larger bung all the way back to 05,,It well still crack,Thats why BMW now puts on the metal ring ,I have installed the clamp on the larger bung by opening up the clamp ,,,You mite have to get a longer bolt,,,but it dose work,,,

 

Thanks for the information. I guess the ST doesn't get an upgraded part because of its smaller numbers. I'll see if I can find longer bolts.

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I had a small leak (microscopic weep) in the collar and several visible cracks. I made the decision to not disturb the threads and fittings and solely apply the Beemer Boneyard collar and tighten.

 

I will report back as to how this works periodically as to how this works out.

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Do it your selfers can buy clamps here www.mcmaster.com Look for shaft collars $7.00ea and just bore out to fit.

 

Hi, I'm new here & i just found this thread from another forum..

what are the measures of the specific shaft collar that fits? (there are more than few there that cost 7$~..)

thanks,

Eran

its for a K1200S 2007

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  • 3 weeks later...

I was under the impression that the cracked flange problem only occurs on the fuel pump side despite the fact that the poor design is virtually the same on both sides. For those of you who had the same false impression, it does NOT only occur on one side...

 

IMG_2055_sm.jpg

 

That's the "sucking jet pump" flange on the right side of my 2007 GSA which seriously started leaking on my last ride. I'm not sure how many other models use the same flange since the GSA tank is unique. However, the fiche leads me to believe that the GS uses it as well but possibly in a different orientation (mounted on the side of the tank rather than the top).

 

The pump itself (left side) was upgraded when my regulator died so I have the new design with metal collar. And yes, I know, old style regulator. :(

 

GSFuelPump.jpg

 

Does anyone know if an upgraded BMW design exists for the white RH assembly on GS/As? The dealer is ordering me a replacement and I'll post up when I find out what I get.

 

If I don't receive an upgraded part, does anyone know if the 10ovr clamp fits this flange?

 

With a collar on this side, a collar on the pump side, a sealed regulator (and bypass wire in my tool kit), and some metal quick disconnects; I think I will have addressed all the commonly occurring fatal failures of the fuel system on this bike. :phew

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Cracks in the female fitting aren't restricted to R models- there are a few for the K1200 2nd gen that would presumably apply to K1300 too. I recently bought an 06 K1200GT and will be looking at mine to see if it needs a clamp as preventative, fuel fittings changes, etc..Instead of being on top, the K has the flange on the front of the tank.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Well... this looks like the end of the road for this problem for me. A few days ago, BMW stepped up and paid to replace my fuel pump, fuel pump controller, and fuel pump controller gasket.

Here is my first email to my BMW representative:

Hi Anthony,

 

I wanted to touch bases with you just to check and see if BMW would be willing to cover my costs to replace the defective fuel pump. I purchased a new fuel pump assembly yesterday, and I noticed that BMW has redesigned the defective part to eliminate the failure mode I and other owners experienced. Given the implicit recognition of a defective part precipitated by the redesign, and the scores of other owners who have experienced this failure, it is my hope that BMW will be happy to cover my costs for the replacement of the part.

 

The reason I am contacting you almost a year after our last contact is because the repair I made to my fuel pump assembly failed recently. I believe I mentioned to you in a previous email that I applied a repair to the failed area (adding an epoxy reinforcing collar around the failed fuel pump outlet flange) and, as I expected, the repair was not permanent as the epoxy weakened due to the constant contact with fuel at high pressure. This repair failed three days ago, precipitating my purchase of a new fuel pump assembly.

 

Please let me know if there is any hope for me to be compensated for this part. I purchased it yesterday at BMW Motorcycles of Scottsdale, 480-609-1800, Ticket number 119998, total cost $547.10

I do not need to be compensated for my labor, but would very much appreciate any help BMW might be willing to provide with the cost of the part.

 

Kind Regards,

 

Joe

 

Here is their reply back:

 

Hi Joe,

 

More than happy to look into reimbursement for you. Can you provide me with a copy of the part sales receipt?

 

Kind regards,

 

I am unsure what precipitated their change of heart. While I began the preparations for a lawsuit about a year ago, I did not file it (I am still finishing my Ph.D. and there was no way I could fight a lawsuit battle until I finished my Ph.D.). When the epoxy repair on my fuel pump finally started leaking a few weeks or so ago, I contacted the BMW customer service rep that I had been working with a year ago and asked if they would now consider reimbursing me for the fuel pump on my 2005 R1200RT (no mention of a lawsuit). A few days later, they agreed to reimburse me if I would sign a release. Once I dug into the fuel pump, I discovered that the fuel pump controller and gasket had been compromised by the leaking fuel, so I purchased replacements. I sent another email to my customer service rep asking if they would mind covering the FPC and gasket and it took approximately one day for them to agree. I have a check on the way covering my costs. I did not ask for labor costs since I did the work myself.

 

Here is my request for coverage of my FPC and gasket:

 

Hi Anthony,

 

I have attached the release form signed and notarized. It is in pdf format, and if I remember correctly, you had problems reading or receiving a pdf file. If you cannot read the attached file, let me know and I will send you an image file.

I am also including a receipt for two more parts that I needed to purchase when I replaced the fuel pump, but I didn't know it at the time because I had not actually done the work when I sent you the original receipts.

 

By way of explanation:

When removing the fuel pump, you must actually remove the fuel pump controller and fuel pump controller gasket from the old fuel pump and put it on the new fuel pump. Unfortunately, the old fuel pump controller gasket had been saturated with fuel for so long that it was expanded... when I removed it, it expanded so much that there was no way to reuse it. The second part was the fuel pump controller itself. When I removed it from the fuel pump housing, there was fuel inside the well where it sits (from the fuel leak getting past the expanded sealing gasket and into the fuel pump controller assembly. The fuel degraded the potting material at the base of the fuel pump controller so much that instead of being a hard epoxy, it was a pliable black goo. Although the fuel pump controller had not yet failed, it was surely just a matter of time before it did... so I replaced it.

 

I will leave it up to your discretion whether or not you feel it is appropriate to pay for these parts, and I will abide by your decision. Thanks again for all your help Anthony.

 

Kind Regards,

 

 

Joe

 

Here is his reply back:

 

Hi Joe,

 

We can reimburse the total cost. Please sign and notarize the attached and scan/e-mail a copy back to me. Once received, you should expect a check in 2-3 weeks.

 

Anthony

 

While I cannot help but think that perhaps the NHTSA investigation helped motivate BMW, it seems fairly clear to me that they could have easily denied my request and waited for the outcome of the NHTSA investigation.

 

If you are reading this, and have had a fuel pump failure, here's what I would recommend:

 

1. Call BMW's Customer Service Number and tell whoever you talk to that you read about the NHTSA investigation (assuming you have... and if you haven't... do so before you call) and that you had a fuel pump failure that you would like to be reimbursed for. If you also replaced your FPC and FPC gasket, let them know you would like to be reimbursed for that as well. If you paid for the installation of the new parts, ask to be reimbursed for that as well. The calls are recorded so MAKE SURE you have EVERYTHING ready to go when you call. Have all of your associated receipts and a grand total for reimbursement that is derived from your receipts. In all likelihood, they will take down your number and have a senior representative call you back.

 

2. Wait for a phone call back. When you speak to the senior representative, tell them the EXACT same thing you told the first representative. Ask them for their email address so you can email them copies of your receipts.

 

3. Email the senior representative your receipts. I would suggest that you include a recap of your position, perhaps something similar to the first email I sent them (near the top of this post).

 

4. Wait to hear back. I would recommend you not take an aggressive stance with BMW, and certainly do not get angry with them if things do not go your way. I honestly believe that this issue will ultimately end in a recall and you will probably be taken care of at that time... however, the recall may not be as kind to you as dealing with BMW now... so you may want to heed my advice and be nice to whoever you deal with. Remember... it is highly unlikely that the representative you are dealing with is calling the shots on this one, so be nice to them and let them do their job. They most certainly did not design the faulty fuel pump so it will do no good to vent your frustration on them.

 

Whether or not BMW takes care of you, I would love to have everyone who follows my recommendations indicate their success or failure on this forum. I would like to see if there is a trend.

 

Warm Regards,

 

Joe

 

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