Aftermarket exhaust systems for 1200RT

[Martyn]

BRAVO! Also Mufflers don't pollute, ever!

 

Apart from the muffler, the OP inquired about removing the cat.

 

I'm only grateful he didn't include a question about choice of tyres or oil.............

[Dave_zoom_zoom]

 

 

Fortunately, in the United States, we still have the freedom of choice in this and many other things. That's a good thing in my book even if it means I have to endure a few annoyances in my life.

 

BRAVO, BRAVO, BRAVO

 

So many of us are unwittingly willing, and even insist, laws (and a certian loss of freedom) be imposed upon the populace to regulate most things we feel are disagreeable or annoying to us. THAT JUST ISN'T RIGHT!

 

Thank you for speaking out. It may not change anything but, it just might cause some to think a bit more about that larger problem.

 

Dave

[Indy Dave]

+ 1

[Motodan]

 

I'm missing something here.

 

Exactly. You ARE missing something here.

 

I don't know what you're talking about, but we/I am talking about "street legal" aftermarket mufflers that are, in fact, legal in all but the most restrictive of venues (possibly where you live).

 

Your "logic" that all aftermarket exhaust systems are a bad thing because "most of those who go the non-stock route, do so without attempting to comply with any acceptable standard" could be used as an argument to ban motor vehicles altogether because it could be said that most don't attempt to comply with traffic laws while operating their vehicles. However, based on what I observed during my long career in law enforcement, I can state with some authority that both claims are wrong and stating them as fact doesn't make them any less so. Most do comply with laws and most who use aftermarket mufflers, like the Arkapovic mufflers sold by BMW Motorad and others, do so while being perfectly within the law.

 

People having no interest in and/or not liking aftermarket systems is all well and good. Those who advocate preventing others from buying and using these same systems because it "annoys" them? Well, I say that's just too damned bad for them. I suspect these people would be happier living somewhere where its citizens have already squandered away their personal freedoms.

 

Fortunately, in the United States, we still have the freedom of choice in this and many other things. That's a good thing in my book even if it means I have to endure a few annoyances in my life.

 

Holy Cow...you really take this stuff seriously. I just enjoy the "sky is falling" mentality of it all. That "we" term you are so loosely using, the one regarding street legal mufflers. You need to start reading the branding on those pipes, perhaps again? Most aren't the "legal" type.

 

As a few others have pointed out, you don't need to be on the extreme edge to make a point or offer an opinion. What is it that conjures up the most extreme aspects in explaining your plight?

 

I know, first they take your God given right to the muffler of your choice and then they came for your children. Well, don't squandered your personal freedoms on too small a war. Perhaps lobbying on the part of some group pushing for more noise and pollution can keep those anti-freedom mongers in check. I would have thought all those LONG years in law enforcement would have diluted that "extreme" aspect...shows what I know.

 

From your previous posts, I can't say I'm too surprised at your head in the sand attitude. Also, incorrect personal assumptions seem to be your forte. Shows what you know indeed!

 

Have a nice, "quiet" day.

 

Struck a nerve, did I? Can't give a ticket for being a sand head I guess. Here's to freedom of opinion, may she ever be so "quiet".

[Grumpy-ol-Fart]

I go on record that I said nothing about legislating anything. I did point out that removing a CC is illegal; agree or not. I just miss a time when people were considerate of one another. Even to the point where I might decide to do something that might be offensive to someone, someplace else because I appreciated that same consideration from others. I really do remember that time, and personally I miss it. I feel in general that people are much more selfish and self centered than they used to be. There is much concern about the extent of individual rights and very little about how to get along with one another. Those two don't have to be mutually exclusive, but somehow that's how things seem to be going.

[Motodan]

Calling all cars....calling all cars there is a beemer that might have a non stock muffler on 2nd ave. Book em Motodan.

 

If he's on 2nd Ave I have no problem with it. I'm far enough away from 2nd, I can't hear it. But if he get closer I'll sneak up on him with my quiet bike and he'll be turning state's evidence before his lawyer knows which room to find him in. Thanks for the tip...Crime Stoppers owes you!

[mistral]

Calling all cars....calling all cars there is a beemer that might have a non stock muffler on 2nd ave. Book em Motodan.

 

If he's on 2nd Ave I have no problem with it. I'm far enough away from 2nd, I can't hear it. But if he get closer I'll sneak up on him with my quiet bike and he'll be turning state's evidence before his lawyer knows which room to find him in. Thanks for the tip...Crime Stoppers owes you!

 

 

 

[Ken H.]

We can preach the mantra of tolerance of others until we’re blue pipes in the face, but its not the motorcycling world / riding world we’re negatively impacting, it’s the non-riding population. And as a result they are negatively impacting us. It’s our responsibility for us to clean up our act, not for them to tolerate our act. WE ARE (the collective we) the problem, not them.

Ken,

 

I understand your reasoning and your valid concerns, but I think the approach is ill-advised. Why? Because history has proven time and again that compromising away personal choices/liberties, rather than leading to the desired effect, more often than not leads to further restrictions.

I’m far more concerned about my rights to ride at all being threatened by the growing anti-motorcycle movement and new ‘No Motorcycles Allowed’ ordinances, driven primarily by the noise issue, than I am by intrusions into my “right” to illegally modify my bike.

 

And removing the stock muffler and replacing it with a non-EPA stamped one (as most aftermarket ones are) and removing the catalytic converter are most definitely illegal.

 

It’s not my annoyance that’s the issue; it’s the non-riding publics THEY’RE the ones that control our riding destiny.

[Ken H.]

I just miss a time when people were considerate of one another. Even to the point where I might decide to do something that might be offensive to someone, someplace else because I appreciated that same consideration from others. I really do remember that time, and personally I miss it. I feel in general that people are much more selfish and self centered than they used to be. There is much concern about the extent of individual rights and very little about how to get along with one another. Those two don't have to be mutually exclusive, but somehow that's how things seem to be going.

Yup, a society that fails to get along, cooperate with one another and compromise individually for the success of the whole; is doomed to collapse. It’s the very core of what makes it as a whole and individuals individually; successful in the first place.

[Indy Dave]

 

And removing the stock muffler and replacing it with a non-EPA stamped one (as most aftermarket ones are) and removing the catalytic converter are most definitely illegal.

 

It’s not my annoyance that’s the issue; it’s the non-riding publics THEY’RE the ones that control our riding destiny.

 

The C.C. and muffler replacement are two different issues, one of them legal, the other not (at least here in Indiana). Non EPA muffler? Not so sure about that, but there are plenty of after-market mufflers available that are very legal and not OEM.

 

BTW - this weekend I was waiting at a light on my RT and a group of HD riders came from my right on the perpendicular road and turned left in front of me. Everyone single one charged off with their straight pipes loud as can be. I'm quite sure all the cars waiting with me noticed how quiet my bike was when our light turned green.

[RT Fan]

My city, Dubuque, Iowa is clamping down on the motorcycle noise this spring. There was an article in the local paper stating that the new chief of police has giving the word to the patrol officers to ticket all motorcycles with out a muffler and the ones with out a stock muffler. There have been many complains from the general public about motorcycle noise. 99% of this noise is from the Harley crowd. These guys dress up like a pirate and run around town showing off there loud pipes. They think people will be impressed. I do not know what there is to impress people with a 60 hp motorcycle with loud pipes and 3 foot tall handle bars. I was at the convenience store getting gas last week and there was 6 Harley's getting gas also. When I pulled up one of the HD guys said "shit another "F"ing BMW - man those things are for wimps". There must be something wrong with all Harley Davidson's because all the Harley riders that I have seen have to constantly rev the motor to keep it running, especially at stop lights.....

[NewBlue]

Food for thought whatever your position

 

http://www.scooternews.net/node/2337

[Gar]

I was just told that my horn was too loud......I knew I should have let that car run me over .......

[Twisties]

Food for thought whatever your position

 

http://www.scooternews.net/node/2337

 

If it's food for thought whatever my position, why did you pick such a ridiculously loaded source for this news? This piece just drips with overt bias. I prefer my news neutral, whatever my position on the subject.

[billS]

 

And removing the stock muffler and replacing it with a non-EPA stamped one (as most aftermarket ones are) and removing the catalytic converter are most definitely illegal.

 

It’s not my annoyance that’s the issue; it’s the non-riding publics THEY’RE the ones that control our riding destiny.

 

The C.C. and muffler replacement are two different issues, one of them legal, the other not (at least here in Indiana). Non EPA muffler? Not so sure about that, but there are plenty of after-market mufflers available that are very legal and not OEM.

 

BTW - this weekend I was waiting at a light on my RT and a group of HD riders came from my right on the perpendicular road and turned left in front of me. Everyone single one charged off with their straight pipes loud as can be. I'm quite sure all the cars waiting with me noticed how quiet my bike was when our light turned green.

 

 

And how many Harley riders get booked for excess noise? If It’s like around here none, asked a local cop once why, didn’t really get a straight answer but I bet if I ride BM or Yamaha dirt bike without muffler the would pounce. That’s what bugs me.

[NewBlue]

Food for thought whatever your position

 

http://www.scooternews.net/node/2337

 

If it's food for thought whatever my position, why did you pick such a ridiculously loaded source for this news? This piece just drips with overt bias. I prefer my news neutral, whatever my position on the subject.

 

Lighten up Francis, I'm referencing the stamp on the muffler and how someone with a hair up his ass can use it to his/her advantage. It needs to be there. If you want an aftermarket exhaust and it's not on there it's for off road/closed course use only, no matter who sells it. This laws not enforced IMO but like I said if that hair is there they can.

 

My bike is stock and I like it that way and I'm not saying in any way shape or form you have to.

 

It's been said and I agree in this case an "individuals choice" can throw a net over the entire motorcycling community.

 

That said how about a nice thread on Religion, you know, something we can all agree on.

[Tim Wilson]

I'm glad to see that this law is being "revised". From the description, it would seem to me to leave too much possibility for abuse. Looking at my RT, the muffler is stamped, but with the cases on, you have to look at it through the wheel from the right side to see it. Given some grumpy LEO with a bug in his bonnet, it would be too easy to say that he "didn't see the stamp" and write a ticket or impound the bike. Even though it could be easily proven that the stamp is there, it would still come at a not-insubstantial cost to the owner, both in time and money.

 

But then again, this is just paranoid speculation on my part.

 

[SuperG]

If you search on the web (or elsewhere),

it is THE #1 reason why most off-road riding areas ( dirt bikes and ATV used) that are close proximity to residential areas get closed permanently.

 

Noise is #1 issue when it is getting voted down by town folks.

#2 is garbage people leave behind after they leave.

 

As a long time "dirt enthusiast" I agree, it annoys the piss out of me when someone is ripping through the parking lot with an open piped or NO-piped ATV or dirtbike.

Same is true on the street; whether its a Harley or a punk with a diesel pickup truck with a semi-truck smokestack sticking through the pickup bed.

 

Just curious, what gain will you get with an aftermarket pipe?

Is it a "cool" factor?

Why you do it Dr. Phil?

 

 

 

[Ken H.]

I was just told that my horn was too loud......I knew I should have let that car run me over .......

If you’re relying on your horn to keep from being run over, me thinks your reliance is sadly misplaced.

[Ken H.]

I'm quite sure all the cars waiting with me noticed how quiet my bike was when our light turned green.

I doubt it. And that’s one of my contentions with this issue – the non-riding public by-and-large doesn’t know a HD from a BMW from a Honda. The only thing they know is motorcycles are loud and they're going to figure out a way to stop the noise. One way or another.

[moshe_levy]

The only thing they know is motorcycles are loud and they're going to figure out a way to stop the noise. One way or another.

 

+1

 

I'm amazed the argument is still on in the first place. Any scan of local headline news (or any Harley forum for that matter) is chock full of information about how municipality after municipality is passing or has passed draconian ordinances or laws which crack down or prohibit motorcycles with other-than-stock pipes. The AMA magazine has such news each month. The time is passed for whether such measures are right or not - it's happening, period, in response to exactly what Ken says above.

 

-MKL

[RT Fan]

The local Harley riders are screaming bloody murder about the noise enforcement. They are claiming that they have paid up to $1,000 for there chrome straight pipes and they should be allowed to use them. They were stupid enough to get rid of there original mufflers so I guess the local Harley dealer will make some money selling them back there original mufflers. If there was a nationwide law banning loud exhaust I believe Harley Davidson would go out of business. The main reason most people buy a Harley is they like the sound of the straight pipes. That is probably the main reason that the V-Rod is a poor seller. It does not sound "cool" with loud exhaust. I guess Porsche forgot that when they designed the motor. They should have known that 90% of Harley riders have no mufflers or an aftermarket loud muffler.

[10ovr]

What the hell dose Harley Division have to do with BMW after market exhaust sys. Thats like comparing apples to oranges,, I have an aftermarket system on my bike and it is about the same noise level as the stock system,Just a little bit low pitch + I took off about 10+ lbs off the bike,,,It passes our emission test with flying colors,,If your worried about are reputation with people, I think the way most of us hoons ride pisses off the people more then the noise,,,Just say-en,,, I have yet to see or hear a set of straight pipes on a BMW...Have you ???

[SuperG]

Good point RT fan...

My riding bud drilled out his muffler on his Vstrom to give it a bit more whoomp sound he said it was too quiet , he could not hear the motor at speed.. but ended up buying a used stock pipe on craigs list because he said he lost torque.

Loosing weight on a 500+ pound touring bike that was designed to haul weight/gear (factory side cases) is illogical.

If you have a rice burner and want to beat your buddies at the drag strip on a 1/4 mile...yeah I can see that dumping some $$$.

 

Putting aftermarket pipe on an RT is like putting magna-flow on a Cadillac deville... just does not make sense.

 

But farkling any bike is always a "thing" among riders

 

 

[JayW]

What the hell dose Harley Division have to do with BMW after market exhaust sys. Thats like comparing apples to oranges...

 

Well, they're both fruits.

 

I think they have a lot to do with each other since it is possible to install loud pipes and/or a muffler that does not muffle on either brand.

 

Jay

[Ken H.]

What the hell dose Harley Division have to do with BMW after market exhaust sys. Thats like comparing apples to oranges,,

Simple – If you’re increasing the noise your bike makes, by any amount; your contributing to the problem. The fact that others are doing it more, doesn’t absolve those that are doing it, but less, too.

[Ken H.]

I'm amazed the argument is still on in the first place.

Actually I’m not. People’s ability to look at their actions from the eyes/perspective of others is astonishing low. And seems to be diminishing.

 

Throw in this constant din of “personal rights” mantra that is so prevalent these days, and is it any surprise this argument still goes on?

 

I read on another board somewhere (if I could find it again, I’d post a link) where a guy was arguing that restrictions on his loud pipes was a violation of his 4th Amendment right to free speech. The (new Denver) ordnance was restricting his right to express himself via his motorcycle. This wasn’t a guy just spouting off either, he sounded like he had the plan and wherewithal to bring forth a challenge on those grounds.

 

Shish...

 

[Indy Dave]

 

I read on another board somewhere (if I could find it again, I’d post a link) where a guy was arguing that restrictions on his loud pipes was a violation of his 4th Amendment right to free speech.

Shish...

 

Well . . . I guess he does have the right to bitch about it! Maybe he'll YELL it to make his point better . . .

[Matts_12GS]

I'm amazed the argument is still on in the first place.

Actually I’m not. People’s ability to look at their actions from the eyes/perspective of others is astonishing low. And seems to be diminishing.

 

Fortunately, people are still overly willing to judge others so the balance of the world is maintained...

 

I think that legal challenge would be a wonderful thing... He could build a coalition of ricers, boom cars, kids "rollin coal" and then once and for all get their collective asses kicked in one big showing that would allow that segment to have the truth laid to it.

 

I used to like louder bikes and have had several. Even when I was riding big twins I learned the value of reducing noise with regard to fatigue on long trips.

 

Maybe if we preach less and try to encourage people to make their motorcycles parts of their lifestyles; get them to commute or travel on them instead of creating shiny fashion accessories we will all be better off.

[racer7]

This thread is really funny.

 

Wonder how many folks wanting to spend money on pipes even know how to run a dyno and read the data. Fact is pipes at best add a tiny bit of power way up the rev band. Not very street useful. The only other changes are more noise and maybe a slightly useful amount of weight reduction. Cost/value relationship is way out of line almost all of the time.

 

Basically, a lot of money for squat worth of real world utility unless sound has some substantial value to you.

 

Only machine I operate with a non-stock pipe has a turbo the size of a dinner plate and lives on track. The very large non stock pipe is needed to flow the air from its hogged out exhaust ports that were done to get enough flow to run that big turbo. It makes multiples of power compared to stock condition and manages to still be quieter than a Harley with no mufflers by a lot- turbos eat sound pulses as good as mufflers so why not spend your money on something that delivers a big result?

 

Like arguing about whether blonds are better than redheads....

 

FWIW, my version of the perfect machine that does not exist has the following properties

1) It converts thought to velocity immediately

2) It makes no noise

3) It is invisible on command

If someone ever makes it, I'll buy 3...Closest thing I've seen so far is the Enterprise shifting into warp and its not for sale...

[slipknot]

There are GS owners over at ADV Rider that say installing a complete performance exhaust system "wakes up" the motor and is worth every cent. As for noise, good performance systems are not necessarily loud. I suspect that the slow moving cruisers (HD and loud stereos in cars) are more likely to piss off the public than what I've heard on airheads and oilheads. On the road, most everyone now is inside an air conditioned car with a radio playing so the real problem we have is how we ride in traffic. What is easy and safe for us is shocking to a lot of cage drivers. I've only seen people get hostile when a rider is reckless (by the cage drivers point of view), never when a loud exhaust goes by. Really loud exhausts are more of a problem in residential areas, parks and sidewalk cafes. The average Staintune or Remus cannister is not a threat to them or us.

[Gar]

A complete used Remus system plus a frk module and pipercross filter will

be listed in the classifieds. The gains are surprising. Best offers

 

 

 

[Ken H.]

Wonder how many folks wanting to spend money on pipes even know how to run a dyno and read the data.

Of course you’re right, a large percentage of bike owners who change their pipes, including those with ‘woken up motors’ on AVRIDER, have never even seen a dyno I’d bet. Let alone before and after tested their bike on one. People's ears and butts, especially after having just dropped a few hundred $$ on pipes, are notoriously bad judges of actual performance.

 

But then this isn’t about actual performance is it? It’s about persona.

 

 

PS: - You can have the Enterprise, I just want the transporter!

[Ken H.]

The gains are surprising.

That, in and of itself, is probably quite true!

[JayW]

The gains are surprising.

That, in and of itself, is probably quite true!

 

Especially the gain in your credit card balance.

 

I'd rather use the money for more rider training myself, but that's me.

 

Jay

[Matts_12GS]

But then this isn’t about actual performance is it? It’s about persona.

 

Your point was well made without this Ken.

 

This smacks of a "you must be compensating" remark that even I think is beneath you. Not attacking just saying...

[Gar]

Roll on performance against a stock R1200RT is surprising...this I know from real testing....This is how you would measure real world gains. I do not believe that companies such as REMUS,Pipercross,FRK etc...do not do testing.You can improve performance of a BMW.The manufacture settles on cost effective items........seats shocks etc....timing and fuel curves can be improved as well.....you have not tested.... you do not know.... however you do have strong opinions ......and everyone has one so enjoy your ride

[Ken H.]

But then this isn’t about actual performance is it? It’s about persona.

 

Your point was well made without this Ken.

 

This smacks of a "you must be compensating" remark that even I think is beneath you. Not attacking just saying...

No, actually “persona” is a bigger word than just 'over compensating.' Various groups of motorcycle riders tend to converge (yes even BMW riders) around a certain style, type, image of riding, and I think the loud pipes crowd is at least as much about cultivating a perceived image in the eyes of others, as it is about actual performance improvement of the bike.

[NewBlue]

But then this isn’t about actual performance is it? It’s about persona.

 

Your point was well made without this Ken.

 

This smacks of a "you must be compensating" remark that even I think is beneath you. Not attacking just saying...

No, actually “persona” is a bigger word than just 'over compensating.' Various groups of motorcycle riders tend to converge (yes even BMW riders) around a certain style, type, image of riding, and I think the loud pipes crowd is at least as much about cultivating a perceived image in the eyes of others, as it is about actual performance improvement of the bike.

 

Okay, enough already with the barbs back and forth, eh? I think we’ve established the various ways people use an exhaust system and/or do damage.

 

Yes a hammer can cause damage most anywhere -

 

[Matts_12GS]

But then this isn’t about actual performance is it? It’s about persona.

 

Your point was well made without this Ken.

 

This smacks of a "you must be compensating" remark that even I think is beneath you. Not attacking just saying...

No, actually “persona” is a bigger word than just 'over compensating.' Various groups of motorcycle riders tend to converge (yes even BMW riders) around a certain style, type, image of riding, and I think the loud pipes crowd is at least as much about cultivating a perceived image in the eyes of others, as it is about actual performance improvement of the bike.

 

Fair enough Ken. I appreciate your explanation.

[jwt67]

I have been to the dyno. Here is the motorcycle bone stock:

 

Here are the results on the same dyno with the same operator after I added the following:

Remus Header

Leo Vince Slip On

Techlusion Fuel Controller

 

 

That is a pretty nice gain, 8% on hp and 9% for torque. The throttle now has a real nice progressive response. Much easier when doing tight maneuvers. The whole bike is just glass smooth with nice power everywhere in the rpm's. The bike is a 2005 R1200ST.

 

The whole load pipes thing would not be an issue if the people riding the cruiser style bikes had not decided they could just run "open" pipes. The minute they open the throttle is just makes noise. They cannot even "putt" though a small town without making noise. My bike at anything but wide open throttle is a touch louder than stock. Friends of mine were following me down a 2 lane road this last weekend when I went to pass a car. I was at wide open throttle when I was passing the car. They commented at the next gas stop how nice the bike sounded. I asked them (as a couple of cruisers went by) load like that or just a good not obnoxious sound. They laughed! They said your bike at wide open throttle was no where near as load or obnoxious as the cruiser style bikes that just went through the town "revving" there engines! My point about the noise aspect is that I can control it with my right hand. The cruiser stlye riders cannot because they have taken the whole thing to far! And even when I do go to WOT it is not that bad.

 

John

[RamblinBoy]

Wow. Nice post JWT. I wonder if you have any thoughts as to how much help the techlusion provided. I have a remus full system on my ST, no techlusion, though. In real world performance against another ST before and after results show the Remus provides a cear advantage. Just wondering the value of the techlusion. Thanks

[SuperG]

It is interesting to finally see some dyno readout.

While it is nice to see that there is some gain after it is tinkered with and some $$$ dumped in, but here is my take:

 

1)The second chart, torque is calibrated/printed on 0-100FT-lb vs. the first which is 0-125ft-lb., so that torque curve "looks" a little steeper on the second.

2)Gain shows up after 6K RPM. ( I myself never/hardly ever ride it in that range - to save fuel and tires)

3)R12s are mellowed from the factory to meet EPA and to satisfy customer's gas mileage expectation.

You can wake up an R12 by simply persuade your dealer ($$) to program your fuel management to R12 police specs.

Ask a cop buddy, they will tell you the same thing.

Gas mileage will go down , but she will move.

[Ken H.]

Oh there is little doubt that dumping more fuel in it (via the Techlusion) can increase power. At the expense of fuel consumption and increased emissions.

 

In addition to the differences in scale, what were the operating conditions of the second run? Missing from your second chart shot.

 

Interesting but I’d like to see one for just a muffler change, w/o eliminating the catalytic converter or changing the fuel mapping too.

 

 

[jwt67]

In my opinion and my experience the Techlusion does add value. When I disconnect the device the difference in driveability and throttle response is very noticeable. And yes the scales are different from one run to the next, but the area under the curve from 5500 rpm to redline is where the big changes are. It's really that and not the peak numbers that make the difference. There are small gains from idle to 5500 but they are pretty small. I did do a run last year with just a slip-on and an FRK module. If someone wants to see it I will post it. There were some nice gains there also. Here are the parameters from the second run that Ken wanted to see.

 

[Hall Vince]

3)R12s are mellowed from the factory to meet EPA and to satisfy customer's gas mileage expectation.

You can wake up an R12 by simply persuade your dealer ($$) to program your fuel management to R12 police specs.

Ask a cop buddy, they will tell you the same thing.

Gas mileage will go down , but she will move.

 

I've often wondered why Dealer demo bikes seem to go so well. Now I'm thinking the above could be applied to demo bikes, makes you want to buy one maybe.

 

On the other hand it might be because they were ragged from new and are now run in nice and early ;-)

\v/

Akrapovic makes a few for the RT. this brand comes highly recommended by a BMW mechanic friend of mine. he rides a loud burly Ducati. i'm putting one on my '09 RT in a week or two...will let you know...

 

Motodan that's funny...super passive agro but whatevers clever! the image of you/anyone riding down the street on their Schwinn with a 'constant-on air horn' and a shit eating grin is hilarious. Does indeed provide a good example of why it is not only unsafe but annoying.

 

Ken I completely agree with the body of your post, and love the zen-like composure of your signature...but for some reason i want to smash that turtles face in! Kidding, KIDDING!

 

[R Shortley]

 

If it's performance you want, buy a K1300GT or an S 1000 RR. If it's noise and excitement that turns you on, move to a war zone.

 

[Fran]

Just have to add my 2 cents, why is everyone so concerned about someone wanting to spend some cash to make a bike more of a personal statement? To all those concerned about pollution get a self propelled bike, for those concerned about the noise when you buy the self propelled bike do not use cards, cloths-pinned to flap against the spokes. Last time I checked we still enjoy freedom of choice. If for some reason you don't like something that someone does its really a personal issue, why is it so necessary to convince everyone that you are right? Live and let live! Like they say in New Hampshire "Live free or die"

--------Disclaimer-------

This rant is not directed at any individual(s), religious or cultural groups, wholesalers/retailers, radicals or people that just don't get it.

Fran

[Grumpy-ol-Fart]

Fran,

 

You so perfectly summed up what is wrong with much of the motorcycle riding contingent. “I have a right to make all the noise I want, it's a free country”.

 

You're absolutely correct, you do have that right; and the exercise thereof is what's going to end up legislating motorcycling out of existence. It has nothing to do with trying to prove my personal preference to ride a quiet bike is right and your decision to make noise is wrong. The fact of the matter is that I’m realistic. I realize that 90% of the citizens I share this country with don’t ride motorcycles, and don’t care a hoot for those of us that do. Furthermore a significant percentage of that non-riding public absolutely HATE those extremely loud obnoxious motorcyclists who all wear look alike leather and look alike do-rags, and all have their truckers wallets with the chains attached to their belts. Those non riders who so much dislike those described “bikers” will lump all of us into a single category and chastise all of us alike. Those non riders will lobby and write letters to our congressional representatives to have laws like the Denver law passed all over the country. Once they get that far, they will continue to lobby for more and more restrictive legislation and eventually we’ll all lose some of the freedom we have today…All because what is a minority of the motorcycle riding contingent felt that their right to make noise trumped the majority of the populations right not to have to listen to that noise. That is also a fact. Just as you have a right to make noise, I have a right to be offended by it. If those who are offended outnumber those who exercise their right to make a bunch of noise; you may rest assured that in the end, we’ll (responsible motorcycle riders) all pay.

 

That’s the problem with exercising individual rights as individuals. We’re all individuals, but we’re also a part of a larger community. We all have to do our part to get along with the others who share our community. That’s pretty much the whole gist of the Golden Rule. Don’t offend me by exercising your individual rights and I won’t offend you by exercising mine. (paraphrase by me) All I’ve said all along is not that I’m right, but that we need to consider the impact of each of our decisions. Every choice we make has ripples that effect others…consider those ripples…

 

“What we do in life echoes in eternity.”

(Maximus, from Gladiator)