Aftermarket exhaust systems for 1200RT

[Fran]

I hear what you are saying, and I too agree that some pipes are extremely offensive and loud. With that being said many of the after market exhausts marketed today not all fall into the HD un-muffled staccato category. The mere fact that you can by a good number of exhausts manufactured by outside firms, that carry BMW part numbers or other manufactures part numbers attest to this. I for one have an Akrapovic slip on, with the baffles inserted it is really no louder than stock, un-muffled it was. I tried it for a while with the baffles, and it was louder than a lot of race bikes and had to put the baffles back in. This same system is also available through BMW. I agree in principle with you, but take offense that the bureaucrats, especially in Massachusetts have the need to step in and offer us guidance as to what is right for the masses. I can promise you this, you will not see ape hanger bars on my bike. As the shrinks say, "maybe we should agree to disagree".

Fran

Fran

[gordiet]

Well, it just so happens that I like the sound of my 1200RT with it's after market exhaust!

 

GT

[Grumpy-ol-Fart]

It doesn't have anything to do with disagree...you just said it yourself. "but take offense that the bureaucrats, especially in Massachusetts have the need to step in and offer us guidance as to what is right for the masses" what exactly is it that makes the "bureaucrat" take aim at motorcyclists? Think maybe it's repressed resentment because someone in high school had a bike and stole his favorite girl? I think maybe it's more likely he's receiving a lot of feedback from his constituents expressing their dissatisfaction with those loud obnoxious “bikers”. They don’t bother to distinguish between the V-twin crowd and the more responsible crowd. Unfortunately I’ve seen members of every riding contingent blasting the public with outrageous loud bikes. Crotch rockets, B-twins, and yes even some BMW’s I’ve ridden by that make an objectionable amount of noise. The reaction to those few is what’s driving the public in general to lobby their local “bureaucrats” to enact legislation that dictates how we’ll all behave. That “bureaucrat” knows how to get re-elected. He listens to the majority and does what he can to appease them. They want to protect their right to peace and quiet, so he legislates away our right to make noise. If we continue to do things that are objectionable to the general public, we can expect to find additional legislation “ to provide us further “guidance as to what is right for the masses”.

[SuperG]

I have to agree with grumpy, but I also see the other side as well.

While I advocate for keeping "her" quiet; I can see that this argument can not be won.

Just imagine what the guy feels like when the weekend comes and he jumps on that straight piped/loud/semi-loud Harley or any other bike that he has been waiting a long time to get and rides to meet up with his buddies. Slap on some chaps, a bandanna or a fake helmet and rumble down the road. Heart pounding, feeling like an outlaw( may be like a 1%-er),that is what makes him happy.

He/she does not give a rats a*s. I would do the same if that would be my thing. I think it is a "thing" that people just age out of, just like loud car stereos.

[GDD]

Well, it just so happens that I like the sound of my 1200RT with it's after market exhaust!

 

GT

 

I like mine as well!

[Ken H.]

Well, it just so happens that I like the sound of my 1200RT with it's after market exhaust!

 

GT

I like mine as well!

Yes, but does you’re neighbor with the 2-year old? The 80-year old watching TV? The person one lane over on their cell phone? Etc, etc, etc.

 

The point we’re making, and Tim states it perfectly, is - what YOU think of the sound of your bike is 100% irrelevant. It’s not you, or any of us who ride who’s going to set our riding future. It’s what the neighbor, the 80-year old, and the person on the cell phone think about motorcycles. (Not even what they think about your motorcycle, because there is no distinction. A bike is a bike is a bike.) They are the people who do and are going to continue to complain, write, lobby against bikes to anybody and everybody.

 

The new sign that goes up at the edge of town isn’t going to say, "NO MOTORCYCLES ALLOWED (Except BMW’s with an Akrapovic)" It’s just going to say, "NO MOTORCYCLES ALLOWED".

 

It’s the old axiom, “You’re either part of the solution or you're part of the problem.” By maintaining/arguing it’s a rights issue, or that a particular bike is not as noisy as some other particular bike, you’re certainly not part of the solution, at best. We can be as indignant about our “rights” (and actually there are no rights in play here at all) as we want, but that’s just spitting into the wind of reality.

 

Rather, as riders we can and should as much as possible continue to lobby long and hard our fellow riders against any increase in the noise of a bike. I don’t want to see that sign go up at the edge of my town. Heck, I don’t want to see it go up at the edge of any town. But unless we bikers continue to work to try to influence we bikers to police ourselves, those signs are going to go up as sure as it’s going to rain again.

 

Side note – I’m personally quite disappointed that BMW is caving to marketing pressure/desperation with the Akrapovic pipes and the sound control value on the new boxers designed to circumvent noise tests. It smacks of the idioticness of HD and their Screaming Eagles pipes for years. Short-term sales gains at the expense of better long-term acceptance of motorcycling. Disappointing.

 

[Ken H.]

Heart pounding, feeling like an outlaw( may be like a 1%-er),that is what makes him happy.

He/she does not give a rats a*s.

And therein lies the crux of the matter. He doesn’t give a rats a*s about who he annoys, and they don’t give a rats a*s about letting him continue to ride. They outnumber him 10:1. Any guesses who’s going to win?

[SuperG]

The new sign that goes up at the edge of town isn’t going to say, "NO MOTORCYCLES ALLOWED (Except BMW’s with an Akrapovic)" It’s just going to say, "NO MOTORCYCLES ALLOWED".

 

There are signs in many towns in my area that say: NO engine or jake brakes by city ordinance" ( for diesel trucks).

The deep - low frequency sound a jake brake travels far, same goes for a loud Harley or rice burner.

 

But there is no way that it will say No Motorcycles, not in America, not in our lifetime!!! May be in communist China or North Korea.

 

 

Or it will be like in the movie Demolition man (with Sylvester Stalone) where the "civilized and quiet" society lived above ground and the rest were outlaws. That movie rocks!!!

 

[Indy Dave]

The new sign that goes up at the edge of town isn’t going to say, "NO MOTORCYCLES ALLOWED (Except BMW’s with an Akrapovic)" It’s just going to say, "NO MOTORCYCLES ALLOWED".

 

Ken - I understand your strong feelings about this issue. To suggest that this type of sign, however, is even remotely possible - except in some remote burg with a population of something like 20 - where ANY kind of ridiculous sign might be possible (no mohawks, colored hair, tattoo's etc) - is a complete stretch.

 

 

It’s the old axiom, “You’re either part of the solution or you're part of the problem.”

 

Well, then I guess we're all part of different problems and solutions - everyone of us on an almost infinite scale . Let's say dandelion's are a 'problem' in my neighborhood to some. To a few, they feel they are a BIG problem, and they might become so consumed with this issue that if it was in their power, they would require and mandate everyone to weed kill and fertilize their yards several times a year.. irregardless of the environmental consequences. However, in the grand scheme of things, the 'problem' isn't so significant in that many peoples lives and their list of concerns or problems; so such a mandate is highly unlikely. [i'm sure in some neighborhood somewhere, this is a gripping issue]

 

People exist on the fringe of both sides of any issue. I, for one, have a hard time extrapolating existing and possible future noise ordinance issues with a baning of motorcycles.

 

 

 

[jwt67]

Ken, the problem is with the people making the noise pollution. Not the people making a IC engine sound good. There is a big difference. To let a sound wave just come "bouncing" out of a pipe without any baffling or control is noise pollution.I have driven several Porsche flat 6 powered cars over the years. Porsche spent good money getting the sound of that engine just right. And I'm not talking about just the exhaust noise but also the intake sound! Is it electric motor quiet, no. Does it sound good yes. Does it makes some noise when you really get after it yes it does. I have never driven a Ferrari but the same thing applies. I have heard them at cruising speed and when driven hard, are they quiet no. Do they make noise pollution, no. Should we muzzle these cars and companies also? The sign at the edge of town banning motorcycles would never stand up in any court. Now to put a sign up stating "Noise laws strictly enforced" is what I see most of the small towns doing. And it appears to be working from what I have seen. The cruiser guys are putting through these towns as quietly as they possibly can. This sign also gives the officers in these towns the ability to enforce the law on the spot becuase you have been warned.

 

John

[Indy Dave]

 

Side note – I’m personally quite disappointed that BMW is caving to marketing pressure/desperation with the Akrapovic pipes and the sound control value on the new boxers designed to circumvent noise tests. It smacks of the idioticness of HD and their Screaming Eagles pipes for years. Short-term sales gains at the expense of better long-term acceptance of motorcycling. Disappointing.

 

Here's where the freedom issues come in Ken. BMW is free to market products as they choose - irregardless of how you or I feel about it. I'm sure we all share some degree of disappointment in all kinds of things daily - from politicians we elect to some of the decisions our kids may choose to make that don't mirror our exact values, outlook, or prejudices. Sometimes when we own or like something, we can have a tenancy to superimpose our belief and value system over theirs, becoming surprised or even outraged when they don't live up to our imposed standards or view of how we feel they should do things; when all along only a portion of their values have overlapped with the customers or constituent.

 

There certainly must be a significant enough number of potential riders to justify the marketing of such products, indicating a opposing view (to some extent anyway) to your own. Many, however, would not draw the same conclusion as to the ultimate effect. In general, even if all motorcycles were whisper quiet, the number of converts from unfavorable to favorable impression of motorcycles based solely on noise I'd bet would be negligible.

[gordiet]

I wonder how it will sound with the straight pipes going to put on it?

 

GT

[Ken H.]

To suggest that this type of sign, however, is even remotely possible - except in some remote burg with a population of something like 20 - where ANY kind of ridiculous sign might be possible (no mohawks, colored hair, tattoo's etc) - is a complete stretch.

 

But there is no way that it will say No Motorcycles, not in America, not in our lifetime!!! May be in communist China or North Korea.

Hate to be the barer of bad news, but it already has happened in the USA – Canyon Lake, CA (population 11,000). No motorcycles are allowed anywhere in the city.

 

In Myrtle Beach, SC (population 22,000), while hasn’t specifically banned all motorcycles, there is a whole raft of related regulations that make riding one there all but impossible.

 

Beyond that, there are an estimated 8500 locations in the USA of some sort or another - communities, parks, campgrounds, other specific areas, etc. where motorcycles are currently banned.

 

[Ken H.]

Ken, the problem is with the people making the noise pollution. Not the people making a IC engine sound good.

What part of - others don’t think it sounds good - don’t you get? You many think your engine (BMW, Porsche, whatever) sounds like 20 virgins beckoning your call. But you (nor the 20 virgins!) aren’t making the ordnances making riding harder.

 

Why is it so totally impossible for bikers to consider, even for a moment, that others might not like what they like?

[Ken H.]

Here's where the freedom issues come in Ken. BMW is free to market products as they choose.

I never said BMW wasn’t free to market (within the constraints of the law) whatever they wish. I said I was disappointed that they have chosen to do so. I would have hoped BMW would rise above it all and be a manufacture that championed quite bikes in the interest of promoting acceptance (or at least slowing the degradation) of riding amongst non-riders. But alas, they haven’t.

 

In general, even if all motorcycles were whisper quiet, the number of converts from unfavorable to favorable impression of motorcycles based solely on noise I'd bet would be negligible

Well we can’t roll back the clock, so we’ll never know, but I, and many others, still think the noise issues is a large part of the unfavorable impression of motorcyles today.

[ollka]

Why is it so totally impossible for bikers to consider, even for a moment, that others might not like what they like?

 

You said it! Why wont you let other bikers like what they like?

 

I dont like loud bikes either, just havent heard first LOUD BMW in Europe at least.

[Marty Hill]

OLLKA, he just can't let several issues go. Perhaps there is a contest for most posts in any given year.

[NewBlue]

A small town view of loud exhausts, irregardless

http://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/251889

 

 

[Indy Dave]

Hate to be the barer of bad news, but it already has happened in the USA – Canyon Lake, CA (population 11,000). No motorcycles are allowed anywhere in the city.

 

Seems things have changed a little Ken since you last checked. Seems cycles are permitted now - scroll down the page.

BTW - This is a gated community - hardly the norm, typical or average "town".

 

linky

[10ovr]

To suggest that this type of sign, however, is even remotely possible - except in some remote burg with a population of something like 20 - where ANY kind of ridiculous sign might be possible (no mohawks, colored hair, tattoo's etc) - is a complete stretch.

 

But there is no way that it will say No Motorcycles, not in America, not in our lifetime!!! May be in communist China or North Korea.

Hate to be the barer of bad news, but it already has happened in the USA – Canyon Lake, CA (population 11,000). No motorcycles are allowed anywhere in the city.

 

In Myrtle Beach, SC (population 22,000), while hasn’t specifically banned all motorcycles, there is a whole raft of related regulations that make riding one there all but impossible.

 

Beyond that, there are an estimated 8500 locations in the USA of some sort or another - communities, parks, campgrounds, other specific areas, etc. where motorcycles are currently banned.

Canyon Lake is a gated community,,,Motorcycles are not aloud on the privet roads,But are aloud on the public roads,,If tax dollars are used for the road,,You can't keep motorcycles off it,,,PS I love my aftermarket exhaust,,,

[IanW]

Here's where the freedom issues come in Ken. BMW is free to market products as they choose.

I never said BMW wasn’t free to market (within the constraints of the law) whatever they wish. I said I was disappointed that they have chosen to do so. I would have hoped BMW would rise above it all and be a manufacture that championed quite bikes in the interest of promoting acceptance (or at least slowing the degradation) of riding amongst non-riders. But alas, they haven’t.

 

In general, even if all motorcycles were whisper quiet, the number of converts from unfavorable to favorable impression of motorcycles based solely on noise I'd bet would be negligible

Well we can’t roll back the clock, so we’ll never know, but I, and many others, still think the noise issues is a large part of the unfavorable impression of motorcyles today.

 

Ken, mate

"Well we can't roll back the clock etc", Ken, I think most on this site agree with you, let it go. I have an RT with a Staintune slip on and it is quieter than stock with the baffel in and still legal in Australia with it out (and we have very strict noise legislation) I have never heard a BMW in Australia that I consider offensive and I hate loud exhausts.

Ian

[Grumpy-ol-Fart]

IanW's post demonstrates perfectly how subjective this whole argument is. I had a Staintune exhaust, the whole thing on my R100RS. On one of my around the country jaunts, the baffle tube fell out in Colorado. I knew just when it fell, I saw it cartwheel off the road in my rearview mirror...there was no way I could retrieve it cause it fell off the edge of the world. I hated the noise, in fact I can honestly say it offended me. Every time I came into a small town and opened my visor, the racket bouncing off the buildings was purely obnoxious...to me. When I got home, I called the vendor I got the exhaust from and told him I needed a baffle tube. He didn't know how long it would take to get one and remarked that most buyers don't run theirs with baffles in anyway, I should just leave it that way. I took the exhaust off and put a stock one back on.

 

So, when it comes to arguing what is offensive and what isn't; there's no point. What is offensive to one person may not be to another...and vice-versa, and therein lies the problem. If I think my bike sounds awesome with my brand new farkle exhaust, and all my buddies agree...your next door neighbor might not.

 

[Boffin]

This thread seems to be going around in circles and has strayed away from the OP. I think therefore, that the time has come to close the thread down.