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Virginia is out of control


BamaRider

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Look bros, I don't want to start another ticket/revenue thread, but I spend a fair amount of time in Virginia going and coming from the northeast.

 

Looking for methods to feed the coffers of a inept govt dept(road)that is broke (despite millions of tax dollars going to it)the state just put into effect the largest increase in traffic history.

 

Speed limit on Va freeways is already a mundane 65 mph, but get caught doing 20 over and the basic fine is 1050 dollars + 61 dollar court fee + 200 fine for a stunning 1300 dollar final tab.

 

I dunno what the lesser offences are gonna bring (stop sign, improper pass, right of way) but prolly in the neighborhood of 500 dollars.

 

At least they were honest about using fines to increase revenue.

 

I gotta find a way to see my niece in Lorton (just outsdide the Beltway) without actually going in the state. frown.gif

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duckbubbles

I hate to say it, but you might be seeing the way of the future. The locals might not approve a tax increase and this is letting some devil alien biker (or whatever) type pay it instead. Look at your local motel/hotel taxes.

 

Frank

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ghaverkamp
Speed limit on Va freeways is already a mundane 65 mph, but get caught doing 20 over and the basic fine is 1050 dollars + 61 dollar court fee + 200 fine for a stunning 1300 dollar final tab.

 

Actually, you have that backwards.

 

There's a basic fine for the infraction of $200, followed by a $1050 "civil remedial fee."

 

I gotta find a way to see my niece in Lorton (just outsdide the Beltway) without actually going in the state.

 

You're not a Virginia resident, are you? The fees only apply to residents.

 

See here for more.

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In my county our jail stays filled to the max about 90% of the time..Much of the time we are forced to release all midemeanor offenders, including D.U.I. suspects, without jailing them. Apparantly they do not have that problem there yet but I'll bet they soon will..What a shortsighted policy.. bncry.gif Isn't there something that is suppose to protect us from cruel and unusual punishment.. grin.gif

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Lets_Play_Two
Look bros, I don't want to start another ticket/revenue thread, but I spend a fair amount of time in Virginia going and coming from the northeast.

 

Looking for methods to feed the coffers of a inept govt dept(road)that is broke (despite millions of tax dollars going to it)the state just put into effect the largest increase in traffic history.

 

Speed limit on Va freeways is already a mundane 65 mph, but get caught doing 20 over and the basic fine is 1050 dollars + 61 dollar court fee + 200 fine for a stunning 1300 dollar final tab.

 

I dunno what the lesser offences are gonna bring (stop sign, improper pass, right of way) but prolly in the neighborhood of 500 dollars.

 

At least they were honest about using fines to increase revenue.

 

I gotta find a way to see my niece in Lorton (just outsdide the Beltway) without actually going in the state. frown.gif

 

I don't understand the whining. The solution is to drive the speed limit. If you choose to ignore the speed limit then pay the fine rather than whine about it. You have a choice...ride at or below the limit and relax or speed and hope you don't get caught? Seems they may have found the point where speeding is no longer worth it. I wish Florida would raise the fines for traffic violations rather than tax gasoline more or tax newspapers and magazines or all the other hidden taxes we have. Run a red light, get caught pay $2000 fine. Maybe being an extra two minutes late for a meeting or work or lunch will be worth the trade off.

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I don't understand the whining. The solution is to drive the speed limit.
Because they are too slow. Getting them changed would be the perfect solution but that is extremely difficult, so when the punishment for breaking an unreasonable law is unreasonable we complain, it's our right. (See independence of USA from GB, or won't you be celebrating that on Wednesday?)
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I'll whine and the reason I'll whine is because the punishment is not reasonable for the crime. It's extreme and unjust..

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Lets_Play_Two
Yes, and you always ride your Graphite '07 K1200GT at the speed limit. Spare me.

 

You miss my point again. I never said that, but I don't whine about traffic enforcement and if I get stopped I pay the fine. There seems to be some sense of entitlement about being able to adopt whatever speed limits we think apply to us and bitch if law enforcement tries to reign in what I think is out of control adherence to those laws...in the guise of complaining about the revenue aspects of traffic enforcement. I'm not surprised that states and counties and local areas are searching for answers. Too many people have adopted that entitlement attitude and seem to think they are the only ones on the road and everyone else is an idiot.

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Lets_Play_Two
I'll whine and the reason I'll whine is because the punishment is not reasonable for the crime. It's extreme and unjust..

 

What is reasonable? Isn't the idea that the punishment should deter the crime? You don't mind paying the fine as long as it doesn't hurt?

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Living in SE Florida with you I agree since nobody bothers to follow any highway laws in this area. But, we should pressure our politicians to increase these "artificial" speed limits that make no sense.

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In addition to the fee being unjust for a number of reasons, it is moronic as well. As the article pointed out, the fees are so high that everyone will be incented to plead not guilty and get a lawyer. The resultant administrative costs will probably exceed that collected by the fines of those who are actually found guilty at the end of that long process. Unjust, likely to generate immense public anger, and revenue negative. Brilliant.

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Lets_Play_Two
I don't understand the whining. The solution is to drive the speed limit.
Because they are too slow. Getting them changed would be the perfect solution but that is extremely difficult, so when the punishment for breaking an unreasonable law is unreasonable we complain, it's our right. (See independence of USA from GB, or won't you be celebrating that on Wednesday?)

 

You are right. This is a democracy and the rules have to take into account all the people, not just a bunch of speed-junkie motorcycle riders who like to test the limit of their equipment. grin.gif Much as we don't like it the roads also have little old ladies and little old men and mothers with "child on board" signs in the windows of the minivan, people with little or no advanced driving skill and a lot of other people not paying attention. The document we will celebrate on Wednesday also assumed personal responsibility and a willingness to come together for the common good.

 

I obviously won't change any minds here...too many individualists grin.gif so I am going to stay away from speed discussions. dopeslap.gif

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the rules have to take into account all the people, not just a bunch of speed-junkie motorcycle riders who like to test the limit of their equipment.
Apparently you don't drive on the same road system I do, almost everybody exceeds the speed limit.
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What is reasonable? Isn't the idea that the punishment should deter the crime? You don't mind paying the fine as long as it doesn't hurt?

 

The punishment should fit the crime. I can't believe I'm the one arguing for leniency... lmao.gif That is absolutely indesputable evidence that the punishment is extreme..I'm the lock em up and throw the key away guy from the board...

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In addition to the fee being unjust for a number of reasons, it is moronic as well. As the article pointed out, the fees are so high that everyone will be incented to plead not guilty and get a lawyer. The resultant administrative costs will probably exceed that collected by the fines of those who are actually found guilty at the end of that long process. Unjust, likely to generate immense public anger, and revenue negative. Brilliant.

 

 

.....and the lawyers win again!!!

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on a related side note, I believe that VA has a law that if you are ticketed for 100MPH or more, you go directly to jail. They impound your car and take you to jail.

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You are right. This is a democracy and the rules have to take into account all the people, not just a bunch of speed-junkie motorcycle riders who like to test the limit of their equipment. grin.gif Much as we don't like it the roads also have little old ladies and little old men and mothers with "child on board" signs in the windows of the minivan, people with little or no advanced driving skill and a lot of other people not paying attention. The document we will celebrate on Wednesday also assumed personal responsibility and a willingness to come together for the common good.

 

I obviously won't change any minds here...too many individualists grin.gif so I am going to stay away from speed discussions. dopeslap.gif

 

I just wanted you to know that you're not alone in your view. I also don't participate in speed limit discussions (anymore)just as I don't ride with speed-junkies who can not keep it within 5mph of the posted speed limits.

 

regards

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grasslander
I'll whine and the reason I'll whine is because the punishment is not reasonable for the crime. It's extreme and unjust..

 

What is reasonable? Isn't the idea that the punishment should deter the crime? You don't mind paying the fine as long as it doesn't hurt?

 

 

Capital punishment then, that'll slow'em down. No worries - if you don't want the chair, just stay within 5! thumbsup.gif

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Jim VonBaden

You are right. This is a democracy and the rules have to take into account all the people, not just a bunch of speed-junkie motorcycle riders who like to test the limit of their equipment. grin.gif Much as we don't like it the roads also have little old ladies and little old men and mothers with "child on board" signs in the windows of the minivan, people with little or no advanced driving skill and a lot of other people not paying attention. The document we will celebrate on Wednesday also assumed personal responsibility and a willingness to come together for the common good.

 

I obviously won't change any minds here...too many individualists grin.gif so I am going to stay away from speed discussions. dopeslap.gif

 

I just wanted you to know that you're not alone in your view. I also don't participate in speed limit discussions (anymore)just as I don't ride with speed-junkies who can not keep it within 5mph of the posted speed limits.

 

regards

 

I live in VA, and am a mile from Lorton, the worst area of northern VA for traffic.

 

People here regularly do 80 in a 55 zone. The police are stretched very thin, and can do little to stop it.

 

I tend to ride within 15 of the limit, so I am not in much danger of finding myself with big fines.

 

While I think they are out of line with reality, and just another unrealistic tax, I am not totally against some quality enforcement of the law. People here are insane, and drive like it.

 

Jim cool.gif

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Too many people have adopted that entitlement attitude and seem to think they are the only ones on the road and everyone else is an idiot.

 

 

Well, maybe not everyone.... eek.gif

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You are right. This is a democracy and the rules have to take into account all the people, not just a bunch of speed-junkie motorcycle riders who like to test the limit of their equipment. grin.gif Much as we don't like it the roads also have little old ladies and little old men and mothers with "child on board" signs in the windows of the minivan, people with little or no advanced driving skill and a lot of other people not paying attention. The document we will celebrate on Wednesday also assumed personal responsibility and a willingness to come together for the common good.

 

I obviously won't change any minds here...too many individualists grin.gif so I am going to stay away from speed discussions. dopeslap.gif

 

I just wanted you to know that you're not alone in your view. I also don't participate in speed limit discussions (anymore)just as I don't ride with speed-junkies who can not keep it within 5mph of the posted speed limits.

 

regards

 

Let's see, now. . . if you won't ride more than five over (a conclusion I draw from your statement) and they do, then it is a self-resolving situation. See you tonight in the bar - when you finally get there. wave.gifgrin.giftongue.gif

 

Pilgrim

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I hear you, Jim. MarcoPolo and I recently rode through Salt Lake City on our way to Spring Torrey on a blustery Thursday afternoon, cooking along in the HOV lane at around 80 to 85 all the way from north of SLC to almost Provo. At one time I glanced over to see some little old lady blowing past me on the right in her mini van, must have been pushing 90. I thought I was such a speedy bad boy, and Grannie SCHOOLED me! grin.gif

 

This is an interesting article to me since I'm moving to the Lexington/Roanoke, Virginia area next month.... I'll be riding the Blue Ridge Parkway to work, maybe hit the Interstate if I'm running late. I can hardly wait!

 

Doug

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So you're tellin me the fines are Va residents only???

 

I dunno much, but I bet thats got the residents chirping. I do the same 85 and get a 180 fine or so..and they drop the hammer on a lifelong resident? Has Va lost all sense of things?

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but get caught doing 20 over
Well... 20 over is a bit much IMHO. If you were talking these same $$'s for 8 over or something, I might be inclined to be a bit more sympathetic, but 20 over? I'd say either slow down or shut up and pay up.
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Charles Elms

I gotta find a way to see my niece in Lorton (just outsdide the Beltway) without actually going in the state.

 

Send her a plane ticket, cheaper than the ones Virginia now gives out.

 

Also I just heard that the second DUI is 30 grand. Hope they have plenty of jail cells for traffic violators who are just a little short.

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I live in VA, and am a mile from Lorton, the worst area of northern VA for traffic.

 

People here regularly do 80 in a 55 zone. The police are stretched very thin, and can do little to stop it.

 

I tend to ride within 15 of the limit, so I am not in much danger of finding myself with big fines.

 

While I think they are out of line with reality, and just another unrealistic tax, I am not totally against some quality enforcement of the law. People here are insane, and drive like it.

 

Jim cool.gif

 

I would be more "OK" w/ this if VA didn't use "reckless driving" as a catchall for anything. I've had FFX CO and Herndon Police both try to give me reckless b/c they didn't know exactly how fast I was going. (Roughly 30-32 in a 25). After some "discussion", they relented on the reckless, but *I* know the law and what reckless means. I can't begin to imagine all the others who willingly accepted the reckless charge... who then found out what it meant!

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Agent_Orange

"speed-junkies who can not keep it within 5mph of the posted speed limits."

How's the air up there? tongue.giflmao.giflmao.gif

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I hear you, Jim. MarcoPolo and I recently rode through Salt Lake City on our way to Spring Torrey on a blustery Thursday afternoon, cooking along in the HOV lane at around 80 to 85 all the way from north of SLC to almost Provo. At one time I glanced over to see some little old lady blowing past me on the right in her mini van, must have been pushing 90. I thought I was such a speedy bad boy, and Grannie SCHOOLED me! grin.gif

 

This is an interesting article to me since I'm moving to the Lexington/Roanoke, Virginia area next month.... I'll be riding the Blue Ridge Parkway to work, maybe hit the Interstate if I'm running late. I can hardly wait!

 

Doug

 

You keep your speed down when you get to Virginia, Cowboy. wave.gif

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Knifemaker

Old Hash....

 

It's simple...

 

#1..If you do not like the cost of the ticket slow it down

 

#2..If you do not like the speed limits..Do what 60% of the population of this great country has forgotten to do VOTE! and get your voices heard...

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GoGo Gadget
on a related side note, I believe that VA has a law that if you are ticketed for 100MPH or more, you go directly to jail. They impound your car and take you to jail.

 

 

Nope. No such law in VA.

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GoGo Gadget
I've had FFX CO and Herndon Police both try to give me reckless b/c they didn't know exactly how fast I was going. (Roughly 30-32 in a 25).

 

BS!

 

You would not even get pulled over for 5-7mph over the limit.

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I've had FFX CO and Herndon Police both try to give me reckless b/c they didn't know exactly how fast I was going. (Roughly 30-32 in a 25).

 

BS!

 

You would not even get pulled over for 5-7mph over the limit.

You were there were you?
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John in VA
I don't understand the whining. The solution is to drive the speed limit. If you choose to ignore the speed limit then pay the fine rather than whine about it. You have a choice...ride at or below the limit and relax or speed and hope you don't get caught? Seems they may have found the point where speeding is no longer worth it. I wish Florida would raise the fines for traffic violations rather than tax gasoline more or tax newspapers and magazines or all the other hidden taxes we have. Run a red light, get caught pay $2000 fine. Maybe being an extra two minutes late for a meeting or work or lunch will be worth the trade off.

 

I'm a Virginian. I don't mind the new "fees" at all. I ride and drive generally at the speed of surrounding traffic, perhaps 5 or so more. If everybody's going 80, I am too. I don't blow by the surrounding traffic and call attention to myself. If a cop picks me out of the crowd, that's the chance I take. I'm not going to whine and yell "no fair!"... I took the chance and got nailed, and I'll pay the fine and take my lumps. I don't feel persecuted; I'm responsible for my actions. Driving is a privilege given to me by the state, which I must earn through testing and maintain by proper and safe road behavior. As I tell my teenagers, when you think about it, the privilege is a contract that entrusts a driver to operate a multi-ton vehicle safely and competently on public roads. You break the contract and you pay the price -- and everybody knows or should know the consequences beforehand, so there simply are no excuses. I can complain all I want and say, well, it's ridiculous that this road or that road has such a low speed limit. But the limit is posted, and for whatever reason that's what it is, and most cops cut some slack for a few mph, but you have to remember that that's what they're doing through their judgment -- cutting slack. If they get complaints in certain residential areas, no slack is cut. Or if "mandatory enforcement" zones are set up and clearly posted on huge signs, like for a few miles of VA I-81 where many accidents occur, no slack is cut and you pay the price. I don't understand what the beef is about.

 

The new fees are high, and they're mainly for increasing revenue because the chcknsht politicians refuse to raise taxes directly to pay for maintaining the clogged roads that everybody whines about (but that's a longstanding VA political issue). But the fees are really focused on chronic scofflaws who build up big points on their license for all kinds of offenses, the worst being the DUIs. I think DUIs should be nailed to the wall. First offense 30 days in jail mandatory and 6 months suspension plus mandatory drug treatment series paid for by the violator. 2nd offense 90 days in jail and 2 years suspension. 3rd offense should be a felony with a minimum 1 year in jail, big fines and suspension for 5 years. Any of these offenses in connection with an accident or injury should get heavy prison time. /rant

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Well I'll look at like this, I get the light fine for 20 over which in a 65 mph state is only 85. I ride I-81 north or south couple times of year (Bristol-Lorton) and usually run 80 mph. 180 dollar fine, out of state ticket, I'll roll the dice and pay the fine if I get busted. Sometimes outta state tickets show up on MVRs and sometimes not. Call it the price of doin business. So far I'm way ahead of Va in the debit, having ridden thousands of miles over the speed limit there last 7 years.

 

I'm NOT doin 65 mph on I-81 and make a 5 hour ride 7. I reckon I'll be passing alot of locals trying to get somewhere, but can't cause they're living in fear of 1300 fine. But NOT us outta staters!! The law is just crazy. But it does make sense not to bust tourists with a 1300 fine, imagine what that bit of news does to the tourist industry, and we can't have Va with a reputation for handing out 1300 dollar speeding tickets spreading throughout the country.

 

John- come talk to us brother after YOU get nailed for doing 80 in 55 mph zone on the beltway, and like you said, you were just pulled out of one of thousands, and handed a 1300 fine. On my rides into DC I can't tell ya how many times I'v seen some poor schmuck getting a ticket, while traffic whizzes by at 80 mph, never even checking up. Just wasn't his day. An LEO can virtually empty a citation book out there, but we have the numbers on our side. He can't get us all.

 

I guess Va has lost its southern roots for non govt interference. I can tell ya, here in Alabama if they passed a law, and that let off out of state folks breaking the same law off with a lesser fine, we'd beat the walls of state house down. Virginians are so heavily taxed, they got folks like you begging politicians to raise taxes to fix the roads, when they're already millions and millions pouring into state coffers. Take Tennesse for example NO state income tax, but they have the smoothest, best roads in the country, bar none. Talk about becoming docile.

 

Probably be a lot harder now to find a local to run rabbit for me, lmao.gif But you can always count on a NY mini van to come through for ya.

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John in VA
John- come talk to us brother after YOU get nailed for doing 80 in 55 mph zone on the beltway, and like you said, you were just pulled out of one of thousands, and handed a 1300 fine.

 

The beltway/495 is another story. I avoid it like the plague and use alternate routes, but no way would I do 80 on it, regardless of what others are doing, and I stay out of the left lane anywhere on 495 in MD or VA, period. It's a tailgating madhouse of truly insane, reckless drivers. FYI, there's also been a "smooth operator" campaign lately on VA I-95 to go after the chronic 100+mph crowd.

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John in VA
Virginians are so heavily taxed, they got folks like you begging politicians to raise taxes to fix the roads, when they're already millions and millions pouring into state coffers. Take Tennesse for example NO state income tax, but they have the smoothest, best roads in the country, bar none. Talk about becoming docile.

 

Not to get into a tax/spittin' contest, but let's see... VA has 5.75% max income tax rate, and AL has 5%. VA's state gasoline tax is 19.6c, AL's is 20.3 and TN's is 21.4. -- and VA has lots more cars and a hllofa lot more roads to maintain. Yet hardcore VA throwback politicians won't raise the gas tax a penny to spread the pain to nonresidents, although they do allow a 2% sales tax on gas in No VA where it's needed. And actually, VA roads are generally excellent, especially compared to MD, a comparably wealthy state.

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Aluminum_Butt

6% sales tax on food in TN? Ouch.

 

Yes, but there's no state income tax, and property taxes are frequently in the hundreds, rather than thousands of dollars.

 

They don't tax my food here in Illinois (or it's like 1%), but I pay 3% of my gross pay in income tax, and the property tax on my average suburban home just hit $7500/year.

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John in VA

Yes but at least your state income tax is federally deductible, which lowers the effective rate, as is your property tax. Sales and food and gas taxes generally are not deductible. Also, county/city property taxes usually pay for public schools, and we get what we pay for in VA.

 

This is probably getting O/T so I'll shut my mouth on tax policy (although the VA driving offenders "fee" is actually a tax that only applies to Virginians).

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Sales and food and gas taxes generally are not deductible.
They are in Texas and any other state that has no state income tax. A little gift from W...
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I've had FFX CO and Herndon Police both try to give me reckless b/c they didn't know exactly how fast I was going. (Roughly 30-32 in a 25).

 

BS!

 

You would not even get pulled over for 5-7mph over the limit.

 

Man, sometime I'd really like to visit your world.

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If VA really wanted to slow traffic down, they would simply enforce at a lower speed. The last couple of times I drove through VA, average speeds were about 80 mph. Although there were plenty of LEOs to be seen all over the interstates, people would blow by them at 80 mph without much concern. So if they don't enforce at 80 or below, and getting caught doing 85 costs $1300, guess what speed people are going to drive?

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GoGo Gadget
I've had FFX CO and Herndon Police both try to give me reckless b/c they didn't know exactly how fast I was going. (Roughly 30-32 in a 25).

 

BS!

 

You would not even get pulled over for 5-7mph over the limit.

 

Man, sometime I'd really like to visit your world.

 

Visit anytime you want. You and I are riding/driving the same roads. Why are you getting pulled over and I am not? I generally go 10-12 over which is the flow of traffic or a bit more. I do EXACTLY 25mph in school zones, and no more than 5 over in residential zones. I don't cut in and out of traffic and draw attention to myself. Feel free to come visit my world anytime. You might like it. I get to my destination safely and without getting pulled over.

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GoGo Gadget
Isn't there something that is suppose to protect us from cruel and unusual punishment.. grin.gif

 

A class 1 misdemeanor is punishable by 1 year in jail and a $2500 fine. The offenses that are getting this $1000 civil penalty tacked on fall into that category (Reckless driving, DUI). We are not talking about a tail light out.

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I don't understand the whining. The solution is to drive the speed limit. If you choose to ignore the speed limit then pay the fine rather than whine about it. You have a choice...ride at or below the limit and relax or speed and hope you don't get caught?

 

How would you like to be busted for engaging in oral sex? Last I checked, it was illegal in several states, including Florida. If you get caught doing it, are you going to take your lumps and pay up without complaint? Of course not.

 

Posted speed limits are no more enforced than oral sex laws. If the VA state police are only going to cite people doing over 80 mph, then I would argue that the posted 65 mph limit is meaningless and your suggestion to drive it is akin to suggesting that people refrain from oral sex.

 

Dave

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GoGo Gadget
In addition to the fee being unjust for a number of reasons, it is moronic as well. As the article pointed out, the fees are so high that everyone will be incented to plead not guilty and get a lawyer. The resultant administrative costs will probably exceed that collected by the fines of those who are actually found guilty at the end of that long process. Unjust, likely to generate immense public anger, and revenue negative. Brilliant.

 

 

Nope. Those $1000 fees are for the Class 1 misdemeanor offenses (Driving on Suspended O/L, Reckless, DUI Etc) Those offenses required a court appearance and a lawyer anyway. Simple speeding tickets are not affected by this law. So the courts will be no more backed up than normal.

 

The only incentive to fight a speeding ticket would be for those folks who cannot manage to avoid speeding tickets time after time. If your demerit points get to -8, there is a fee for every point above that. Or below since we are talking negative points. You get a positive point for every year without a ticket, up to +5. So you could get -4 point speeding ticket (19mph over the limit) Every 5 years and never go into the negative. Even if you have a bad year and get 3 in one year, you are still not at the -8 point yet. Take a defensive driving course, that gives you +5, and drive clean for a few years and you are nowhere close to the bubble.

 

 

The jails will not be filled with folks who cannot pay either, as someone suggested. This is a civil penalty, collected by the DMV, if you can't pay, they will send it to a collections agency, or sue you in civil court.

 

 

I agree that it should be enforced equally, not just on VA residents. IF an out of state resident does not pay up, suspend their privilige to drive in VA and if they get caught again, they go to jail until it is paid.

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Visit anytime you want. You and I are riding/driving the same roads. Why are you getting pulled over and I am not? I generally go 10-12 over which is the flow of traffic or a bit more. I do EXACTLY 25mph in school zones, and no more than 5 over in residential zones. I don't cut in and out of traffic and draw attention to myself. Feel free to come visit my world anytime. You might like it. I get to my destination safely and without getting pulled over.

 

And we're riding the same way. Eeeny, meeny, miney, motorcycle, and you're sitting talking to Officer Luc for :50 as he explains that there's "heightened awareness" for motorcycles. Give me a break...

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Nope. Those $1000 fees are for the Class 1 misdemeanor offenses (Driving on Suspended O/L, Reckless, DUI Etc) Those offenses required a court appearance and a lawyer anyway. Simple speeding tickets are not affected by this law. So the courts will be no more backed up than normal.
So 20 mph over is a Class 1 misdemeanor requiring an attorney?
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