BMWST.com....What have we become?

[Dennis Andress]

To Matt's post: if you have a gripe, now is a good time to put it on the table for all of us to consider.

 

@Whip went into this knowing it would be costly. I believe he was asking people about what they'd be willing to spend at Canaan Valley. It took Larry a few months to find a venue at this price point.

 

Last year was the first time I went riding in Colorado, as opposed to just passing through on an interstate. It is a fantastic place to ride! But, it is also borderline 'out west,' meaning distances are longer, speeds are higher (not so much in Colorado) and day rides are longer. With the exception of the Hell A area nothing is only three hours away out here. For most of us Torrey is a two day ride coming and going. Yet, we do it twice a year...

 

So, as an old desert rider, I ask:

• What would make an UN money well spent for you?
• The location of the UN is moved from the east, central and west yearly. As there are more events and weekend rides on the eastern side, how far would you be willing to travel for a 'central' UN?
• How can we make our events appealing to new members?

 

 

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

@Whip asked a similar question three years ago:

 

What has happen to us?

 

It was a good informative discussion, and I think it's at least somewhat relevant to the question of reduced attendance at this Un and at other recent BMWST events.  

 

For my part:

In addition to the physical decline of a body that makes cross-country riding more daunting than it used to be, the circumstances of my life have been changing over the years.  When I started riding, I was 28 and single and I rode a lot, covering 100,000 miles in the first six years (so, 16K/year).  After I got married and continued aging, I covered 36,000 miles in the next four years (9K/year).  Bought a new bike in 2009, and in 14 years I've put about 56,000 miles on it (4K/year).  

 

There's no disputing that the riding in Colorado is awesome, but I just don't have the stamina for crossing the great plains anymore and feeling good when I get there (maybe I need to take off that "World's Toughest Riders" license plate frame???).  It's about 1300 miles from Ann Arbor to Denver, and then 350-400 miles to Durango after that (and the same thing in reverse to get home).  In the last decade or so, I've focused more on regional trips/events, mostly in Wisconsin (DART + solo trips) and also down south (START/FART).  I can get to/from these places in a single day; with three days of fun-filled day rides at the event, that makes for a nice five-day trip.

 

Marriage also changes things.  Leaving Masako on her own for 5-6 days is one thing, but disappearing for two weeks anymore feels like a bit much.    I also want to save some of my paid vacation time for trips with her - most notably, a nearly annual trip to Japan that we've been doing since 2010.  The 13-hour flight to/from Japan is rough on our bank account and our bodies, so when we go, we make it a long trip - a full three weeks.  That limits how much time I have left for moto trips.  

 

 

[RTinNC]

I have never attended the UN but have participated in the ART events over the years.   I find the ART events very reasonably priced with nice locations and hotels that are reasonable and nice.   If my schedule allowed and I could attend the UN I'd be open to about 1000 or so miles.  When I travel solo I travel pretty cheaply so I figure about $200 a day when on the road for all my gas, food and lodging. But staying at an upscale hotel or resort I'd probably be willing to spend $250 a night +/- for the hotel  BUT ... when I am riding with some of my colleagues we share a room which cuts that cost in half.  I just booked the Canaan Resort for the BMWRA National event in September and rooms were $120 a night which I thought were very reasonable.   While I am retired I do watch what I spend and usually fall on the frugal side. 

[RTinNC]

6 minutes ago, Joe Frickin' Friday said:

@Whip asked a similar question three years ago:

 

What has happen to us?

 

It was a good informative discussion, and I think it's at least somewhat relevant to the question of reduced attendance at this Un and at other recent BMWST events.  

 

For my part:

In addition to the physical decline of a body that makes cross-country riding more daunting than it used to be, the circumstances of my life have been changing over the years.  When I started riding, I was 28 and single and I rode a lot, covering 100,000 miles in the first six years (so, 16K/year).  After I got married and continued aging, I covered 36,000 miles in the next four years (9K/year).  Bought a new bike in 2009, and in 14 years I've put about 56,000 miles on it (4K/year).  

 

There's no disputing that the riding in Colorado is awesome, but I just don't have the stamina for crossing the great plains anymore and feeling good when I get there (maybe I need to take off that "World's Toughest Riders" license plate frame???).  It's about 1300 miles from Ann Arbor to Denver, and then 350-400 miles to Durango after that (and the same thing in reverse to get home).  In the last decade or so, I've focused more on regional trips/events, mostly in Wisconsin (DART + solo trips) and also down south (START/FART).  I can get to/from these places in a single day; with three days of fun-filled day rides at the event, that makes for a nice five-day trip.

 

Marriage also changes things.  Leaving Masako on her own for 5-6 days is one thing, but disappearing for two weeks anymore feels like a bit much.    I also want to save some of my paid vacation time for trips with her - most notably, a nearly annual trip to Japan that we've been doing since 2010.  The 13-hour flight to/from Japan is rough on our bank account and our bodies, so when we go, we make it a long trip - a full three weeks.  That limits how much time I have left for moto trips.  

 

 

Well said and it really comes down to personal priorities.  I have ridden more since I retired in 2017 and truly enjoy longer (2-3 week) trips.  My wife is extremely supportive of my MC Passion but I do make sure I allocate time and $$ for vacations with her.   But like me she occasionally heads off on her own to hike of visit family.   It is really hard to please everyone in one event as there is a lot of individual factors in the mix. 

[Dennis Andress]

I found this in the thread @Joe Frickin' Friday referred to. It works as my answer to the questions I asked.

 

On 2/18/2020 at 9:36 AM, realshelby said:

I was telling someone the other day that I have attended two meetings of the Houston BMW club. Never went inside, was never welcomed in the parking lot. 

 

This group has always welcomed me when I arrive, even those that don't know me. Think on that for a while, think of the importance of that. 

 

The UnRally, events like START and FART, tech daze have formed what this group is about. Camaraderie. But I wonder about where the rally part is going. I hesitate to say that, as it will ruffle some feathers. Not my desire. Even talk of us becoming a charter club with BMWMOA. The best times I have had with this bunch had nothing to do with the place we stayed at. I would be just as happy staying at a motel 6 with a place near where we could gather. This group has never cared if you were wealthy, or just spent all your spare money to buy a good used RT. It is still that way. Riding 1500 miles each way to attend an event can get expensive. Motels today not as cheap as they were 15 years ago. Even eating meals on the road adds up. It is a LOT easier to make a decision to go when you can spend $1000 on a trip rather than $2000. 

 

 

[Skywagon]

9 minutes ago, Dennis Andress said:

Houston BMW club. Never went inside, was never welcomed in the parking lot. 

 

Dennis....sorry that happened.  I usually don't attend those meetings as they are across the worst of Houston traffic at prime time commute time.  I do attend some when they have them on the weekends and always attend and participate in Techdays.  I've been in the Houston club since 2007 and it is changing.  It use to be all old farts.  Well now it is a nice mix.  There are 1-2 group ride outs every week.  It's probably 85% younger riders.

 

I'm going to the Kerrville, Texas rally in March.  It's about a 4 hour ride from here which is completely dooable.  I don't know a single person there but hope to make new friends.

 

Back to the question Whip asked, and I posted earlier my view, similar to Terry's.....It's a lovely place but just too far. My Marriott account shows I've spent 1142 days at their fine establishment before I retired.  Extra nights on the road are just not exciting anymore.  It's over 2200 miles round trip plus the great riding in Co. I would likely need a tire change to come home as the current tires are about 5000 miles.  With the extra days to and fro to get there as well as extra hotel stays, it is just more time and body abuse than I'm comfortable doing.  It will be a great event I'm sure.

[Hosstage]

Maybe instead of saying that "20 rooms couldn't get filled", it should be said that "almost 20 rooms got filled!"

[randy]

I could be wrong, but I think Red Lodge might have been the peak for the UnRally event.  Since Red Lodge I believe we have basically gone down to around 85 people in attendance.  I think the Admins keep attendance records, so someone might tell me I am wrong.  But if I am correct, then historical reduction in attendance, Pandemic, Inflation, lodging cost, distance, all has contributed to the lower than normal attendance for this event.

[Rob Nowell]

On 2/3/2023 at 6:29 AM, Whip said:

We can't fill 20 rooms at the Million Dollar Highway in Colorado for the UN Rally with some of the best mountain roads in the world.  WTF?

 

We had almost 200 people at Red Lodge.

 

I think some of the East Coast Un Rally's have been even bigger.

 

Is anyone from the East coming to Colorado?

 

Are we too old, fat, and lazy?

 

Are we riders or are we ex-riders and talkers?

 

I want to hear all the excuses.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The lodging is out of my league, but I am not about to complain.  The few rides I have joined in on with you guys have been great, and you have made me feel pretty welcome (which I appreciate).  I plan to add two new Cali rides this year, plus a repeat.  If my financial obligations were different, I might join you in CO, but, for now, I may go with a couple buddies in September.  We will not be staying at a resort.

Planning large events such as this UN is a huge undertaking, and, as others have alluded to, "you can't please them all."

My complaint is simply that the negative (even nasty) tone of some of the messages I've read this morning are disappointing.

[Limecreek]

4 hours ago, realshelby said:

Think about this. How old were most of us old timers here when we got into BMW's and/or BMWRT/ST? How much disposable income does the average 20-40 year old have? Unless we want to be an exclusive group, we need to think about making it easy to welcome the younger generation. Cost is a bigger factor than most want to admit. I have already been contacted off line by members about the first post I made, then deleted. I seem to have said what others were thinking. Which was what this thread was supposed to be about. Not hijacked......

Hi Terry - we've been cultivating a younger group here in the Austin area.  All of them are in their 30's and all of them were completely hooked after their first long cross country trip. 

Nick came with me to Red Lodge. Nick and Neil attended the Fall Torrey in 2021 and Mitch attend the Fall Torrey last year.   Two of them may show up for the Purgatory event - just too soon to make commitments as they juggle vacation schedules and family. 

The cost of hotels and meals is not holding them back.  They share expenses just like us old guys do. From my point of view, its not the cost of what we do that excludes younger riders.    Someone just needs to get them interested at a local level and then invite them along on a short trip and then a long one.   The experience takes care of the rest.   

 

I for one am looking forward to seeing a few faces I haven't seen in a number of years out in the Purgatory parking lot.   

 

Cheers!

 

 

[randy]

So I am a right brain numbers person. And this thread got me thinking.  these numbers are not exact, as I just went to each events historical thread and looked up the information, but I am pretty sure it is close enough to be accurate for this discussion.

2016 Red Lodge 200
2017 Fontana Dam  85
2018 Palmer Gulch  85
2019 Lake George  50
2020  West Virginia  88

I think this shows my initial gut feeling is correct, since Red Lodge depending on location, expense, and maybe some Luck (lots of competing events family or otherwise)  50-90 is the new norm.

With the Pandemic, Inflation, 6 more years since Red Lodge if we hit 50 I think we should consider this UnRally a huge success.  Lake George only had 50.  sometimes events just do not line up one year.  I think Lake George had a similar problem, lots of riders said it just did not line up with family needs etc.  

Just my 0.02

[TSConver]

The overall cost is why we are doing the travel trailer.  Sure we are few miles away but If we stayed at the resort we would have to still trailer our bikes out as my wife would not ride that far.  That means 2 additional nights along the way and during the return for overnight stays.  Plus food along the way.  Plus likely would have to board our dogs.  That really adds up.

 

$1500 for hotels and lodge

$500 for boarding

almost 5000 miles round trip so 250g of diesel so at least $1500

Plus food at bars or restaurants.  $500

So $4000 and probably a bit more.

 

If we travel trailer it

still 5000 miles at worse mpg so $2400 in diesel

Food is normal food as we can buy it here and prepare it ourselves

No boarding fees

Camping fees $377 in Co

Camping on the way $200 for 4 nights along the route.  All though Walmart will let you park in their lots overnight so we could save a few bucks doing that depending on weather, if it is hot would want a full hook up to get ac.

So about $3000 a savings of $1000 for us.  Plus we make a vacation out of it.

 

Also been on the board about 2 years now.  I am definitely in the younger demographic compared to many.  But not too young, :-)

Seems that many are older and I agree attracting younger members is needed or the board will die out.  When I first saw the red banner I was kind of taken back by the tone.  People have lives and other priorities.  Families, children, work.  Taking over 2 weeks off for us is a stretch but we are doing it because our youngest son lives in Vegas and we are planning on seeing him as part of the trip.  But to post and lay a guilt trip on people because they are not committing to coming is pretty low.  With current economy people are struggling and have less disposable income.  I know my taxes are higher this year than I can remember and I made less this year than I did last year.  

 

Hope to see a bunch of people in July and meet some new firends.

[roadscholar]

Wa wa wa.  

 

Let's see, too far (the Great Plains), stamina, my tires will wear out, $$$$, on and on. 

 

Ok it was I5 years ago (I'm 75 now) but I decided I was going to Torrey on the Tuesday evening before the event. By Wed. I had a flight to Denver on Thurs., a GS rental, and a room for the weekend in Torrey. It was one of the most memorable trips I've ever done, the riding spectacular and friends met and made incomparable. I'm still considering this but likely towing a Jeep or similar with a smallish motorhome.

 

A little googling turned up round trip flights from Jax to Denver under $500., BMW rental in Denver from $I06. (RnineT) to 2IO. (700GS) to 260./day (GS/RT),  motels about I00./day if you shared one with someone, so it's possible for under $2k for six days if you did it right. BMW Grand Junction has among others an II50GS they'll rent (would be my choice) and heck you can rent a Grom from Eaglerider in Albuquerque for $25./day (don't laugh I have a buddy that rode one from NJ to Denver once : ) that could make for an epic ride.

 

Just depends on how much you want to do it, where there's a will there's a way. If you're not sure how much wait'll it's over and see the pics, it's when you'll realize you totally messed up.  

 

And another thing, there are just a handful of places in the contiguous 48 that qualify as truly spectacular, SW Colorado is one of them. 

 

 

[Skywagon]

Interesting input....Whip honestly asked for input/ reasons and it has turned into shaming people who gave an opinion on why this particular event isn't the right one for them.  For those who said, including me, the reasons they weren't making this event; here is what I gleamed.

 

Expense, time, distance on older riders like me, extra nights enroute, common meeting area which Whip addressd, and yes I would have to order and change tires during the event.  I've seen others do the very same thing so not sure why that would tweak anyone.

[Dennis Andress]

Yeah, that didn't help. Let it go and press on being helpful.

[roadscholar]

If it was aimed at me it helps if you want to save $300/400. on tires, a few nights in a motel, 4 extra days of boring riding from the East, just pointing out an alternative that worked great for me. It's a different world now but the same formula applies. Sorry if it shamed someone (not intentionally) but all the excuses could be remedied if you really wanted to go. Tires, really.. : )

[Dennis Andress]

Have ya'll ever contemplated herding cats?

 

[Rob Nowell]

6 minutes ago, Dennis Andress said:

Have ya'll ever contemplated herding cats?

 

Is that anything like "chasing pussy?"

[Dennis Andress]

1 minute ago, Rob Nowell said:

Is that anything like "chasing pussy?"

No

[TEWKS]

33 minutes ago, Dennis Andress said:

Have ya'll ever contemplated herding cats?

 

 

26 minutes ago, Rob Nowell said:

Is that anything like "chasing pussy?"

The old homestead where I grew up had some feral cats in one of my father’s work sheds. Every spring I use to try to collect the kittens and find them homes. IIRC, it was nothing like chasing pussy! 

[KDeline]

Sadly it's my wife's health issues for me. She can no longer ride or be left alone. We would have gladly spent the money, take the time, change the tires, and cross the plains to get there as we did for so many years. 

[Matts_12GS]

Please give Kate my best 

[Dennis Andress]

14 minutes ago, KDeline said:

 

 

Hugs

[roadscholar]

20 minutes ago, Matts_12GS said:

Please give Kate my best 

 

Sorry to hear Ken and likewise.

[Cap]

The original question was, “why can’t we fill the rooms?”  
 

And reading this, I think I see a couple of trends.  For those who would need to travel a long distance, they find it hard to justify both the effort of getting there AND the high cost of lodging once there.

 

For those of us who live nearby… like me… I ride these awesome roads every year, usually at least twice.  I disagree with @realshelby somewhat that these aren’t great RT roads.  They are.  But @realshelby is correct that returning to the same lodging every night implies that you can only hit a few of the great roads before you repeat.  And the cost of lodging in the chosen venue is simply not a great value.  There are many cheap motels in Durango just a few miles away.  So, for me, the cost of lodging is just as much a deterrent as those who live much farther away.

 

I think Colorado has the best RT roads in the US.  But it does not lend itself to a fixed venue.  Colorado is too big and spread out.  Rather, the riding in Colorado is best experienced as something that old timers remember as a ‘Gypsy Rally,’ in which there is a different gathering point on each night, with multiple routes possible between the rally points.  This type of riding affords a chance to cover more ground, without repeating rides. And also to split into smaller riding groups by interests and abilities, while still gathering in the evenings for social events.  And a Gypsy Rally has an additional advantage that each rider can pick their own lodging at a price that suits their budget — the rally point can be a restaurant or a bar.

 

I hope to meet many of you at START… I am flying out to turn wrenches with Boxflyer.  Perhaps some of you will reconsider the long trip to Colorado between now and July.  It offers the best long distance sport touring in the country.  If so, I would be pleased to show you around my adopted home state — but we won’t be staying in Purgatory.

 

Cap

 

 

[Rob Nowell]

3 hours ago, Dennis Andress said:

No

...sorry, Dennis!  Simply trying for a bit of levity.

[randy]

1 hour ago, Cap said:

The original question was, “why can’t we fill the rooms?”  
 

And reading this, I think I see a couple of trends.  For those who would need to travel a long distance, they find it hard to justify both the effort of getting there AND the high cost of lodging once there.

 

For those of us who live nearby… like me… I ride these awesome roads every year, usually at least twice.  I disagree with @realshelby somewhat that these aren’t great RT roads.  They are.  But @realshelby is correct that returning to the same lodging every night implies that you can only hit a few of the great roads before you repeat.  And the cost of lodging in the chosen venue is simply not a great value.  There are many cheap motels in Durango just a few miles away.  So, for me, the cost of lodging is just as much a deterrent as those who live much farther away.

 

I think Colorado has the best RT roads in the US.  But it does not lend itself to a fixed venue.  Colorado is too big and spread out.  Rather, the riding in Colorado is best experienced as something that old timers remember as a ‘Gypsy Rally,’ in which there is a different gathering point on each night, with multiple routes possible between the rally points.  This type of riding affords a chance to cover more ground, without repeating rides. And also to split into smaller riding groups by interests and abilities, while still gathering in the evenings for social events.  And a Gypsy Rally has an additional advantage that each rider can pick their own lodging at a price that suits their budget — the rally point can be a restaurant or a bar.

 

I hope to meet many of you at START… I am flying out to turn wrenches with Boxflyer.  Perhaps some of you will reconsider the long trip to Colorado between now and July.  It offers the best long distance sport touring in the country.  If so, I would be pleased to show you around my adopted home state — but we won’t be staying in Purgatory.

 

Cap

 

 

Cap has helped me tremendously 

I am basically doing a gypsy rally

In order to ride all the roads I want and keep the daily mileage around 300 this is working out the best for our group 

But 100% sure we will be there for the group dinner 

Friday Durango 

Saturday. Gunnison 

Sunday. Fruita

Monday. Moab 

Tuesday/Wednesday Purgatory 

[szurszewski]

10 hours ago, randy said:

2016 Red Lodge 200
2017 Fontana Dam  85
2018 Palmer Gulch  85
2019 Lake George  50
2020  West Virginia  88

 

Well, here's the problem: Laura and Jeremiah haven't been since 2016 - clearly they were the draw. 

[Matts_12GS]

@TyTass and I had discussed doing some of the early BRR events as gypsy rallies but there was not much interest in humping all your gear around every day for 4-5 days at a time.  Times change I suppose. 

[realshelby]

9 hours ago, Cap said:

The original question was, “why can’t we fill the rooms?”  
 

And reading this, I think I see a couple of trends.  For those who would need to travel a long distance, they find it hard to justify both the effort of getting there AND the high cost of lodging once there.

 

For those of us who live nearby… like me… I ride these awesome roads every year, usually at least twice.  I disagree with @realshelby somewhat that these aren’t great RT roads.  They are.  But @realshelby is correct that returning to the same lodging every night implies that you can only hit a few of the great roads before you repeat.  And the cost of lodging in the chosen venue is simply not a great value.  There are many cheap motels in Durango just a few miles away.  So, for me, the cost of lodging is just as much a deterrent as those who live much farther away.

 

I think Colorado has the best RT roads in the US.  But it does not lend itself to a fixed venue.  Colorado is too big and spread out.  Rather, the riding in Colorado is best experienced as something that old timers remember as a ‘Gypsy Rally,’ in which there is a different gathering point on each night, with multiple routes possible between the rally points.  This type of riding affords a chance to cover more ground, without repeating rides. And also to split into smaller riding groups by interests and abilities, while still gathering in the evenings for social events.  And a Gypsy Rally has an additional advantage that each rider can pick their own lodging at a price that suits their budget — the rally point can be a restaurant or a bar.

 

I hope to meet many of you at START… I am flying out to turn wrenches with Boxflyer.  Perhaps some of you will reconsider the long trip to Colorado between now and July.  It offers the best long distance sport touring in the country.  If so, I would be pleased to show you around my adopted home state — but we won’t be staying in Purgatory.

 

Cap

 

 

Cap, I think you said it perfectly. I didn't word my original post as well as I should have. Yes, the roads are really good. But like you said, you are on the SAME road so much of the time. That was what I was getting at. There just aren't many side roads you can take when going North or South! At least on an RT.

 

[randy]

2 hours ago, Matts_12GS said:

@TyTass and I had discussed doing some of the early BRR events as gypsy rallies but there was not much interest in humping all your gear around every day for 4-5 days at a time.  Times change I suppose. 

I think this is just a unique situation for me.  We have 4 riders in our group, and two of them are not into long riding days.  For this event, to cover the roads we want to ride, and to visit the National Parks we want to visit, a modified Gypsy style event is going to work best for us.  Staying at Purgatory, and trying to ride all the roads we want to ride, and locations we want to visit, was pretty much 400 - 500 mile rides each day, plus not a lot of time to spend at each place, Arches, Gateway Musuem, Canyonland, Colorado Park, Butte, Taylor Park etc.  So the Gypsy still works for us, for this event.  

In general unless it is like a one time lets try it, I do not think in Gypsy type routes would work.

[Indy Dave]

On 2/3/2023 at 9:29 AM, Whip said:

We can't fill 20 rooms at the Million Dollar Highway in Colorado for the UN Rally with some of the best mountain roads in the world.  WTF?

 

We had almost 200 people at Red Lodge.

 

I think some of the East Coast Un Rally's have been even bigger.

 

Is anyone from the East coming to Colorado?

 

Are we too old, fat, and lazy?

 

Are we riders or are we ex-riders and talkers?

 

I want to hear all the excuses.

 

 

Casting aspersions on others isn't exactly laying out the red carpet. Criticizing  people for talking to each other off board about trip and event plans?

 

I agree with the topic: What has happened to us? 

 

 

[Rob Nowell]

11 hours ago, szurszewski said:

 

Well, here's the problem: Laura and Jeremiah haven't been since 2016 - clearly they were the draw. 

that is one HAPPY kid there!

[randy]

One item I liked about Red Lodge (I think it was Red Lodge) was the morning breakfast.  It was so nice going to breakfast and meeting other riders and picking up or joining a group of riders for that day.  If I am remembering correctly that was a great benefit at Red Lodge.

[szurszewski]

14 hours ago, Rob Nowell said:

that is one HAPPY kid there!

He had a pretty good time there. Of course now, he's a surly 14 year old....

 

 

Nah - that's unfair. As 14 year olds go, he's pretty not surly. Most of the time. What he IS though, is just a teensy bit taller than he was in '16....

[Matts_12GS]

4 hours ago, szurszewski said:

He had a pretty good time there. Of course now, he's a surly 14 year old....

 

 

Nah - that's unfair. As 14 year olds go, he's pretty not surly. Most of the time. What he IS though, is just a teensy bit taller than he was in '16....

I last brought this one around to Fontana Valley. He was 14 then.  He really loved doing the dragon.  Now he's taller than me and a college senior. If it wasn't for internships he might be there with us 

[Matts_12GS]

20 hours ago, Indy Dave said:

 

Casting aspersions on others isn't exactly laying out the red carpet. Criticizing  people for talking to each other off board about trip and event plans?

 

I agree with the topic: What has happened to us? 

 

 

It's funny... I see those as questions not "cast aspersions "

[Whip]

38 minutes ago, Matts_12GS said:

It's funny... I see those as questions not "cast aspersions "

I don't think the comment was directed at the questions, I think Dave is trying to get us back on topic. 

 

I could be wrong?

 

 

[TEWKS]

1 hour ago, Matts_12GS said:

 

 

 

 

Hey, is that David Keith with Matt’s son? Yeah, no, maybe a little?  

[W8NONU]

I’ve had health issues for years, but was able to make Torrey last year.  Fortunately when I feel good enough for a ride distance isn’t an issue.  I haven’t committed to the UN because I don’t know if I’ll feel well enough, but I intend to be there if I can.  I will end up bringing my toy hauler/rv and staying at a campground near the resort and staying in Colorado for 2-3 weeks after the UN.  So, if healthy, I’ll be there and looking forward to it.  Colorado and Utah are some of my favorite riding areas. 

[Calvin (no socks)]

I have done one long ride nearly every spring for the last 20 years... from the East Coast.   I blitz out in 2 1/2 days, stay a day or two and turn for home... Not to look at the bikes in the parking lot and shoot the bull, not just for the ride,  or the sake of getting away... but to see old  friends...  Brothers and Sisters one might say. And welcome newcomers into our group. Years ago someone I never met in person.... Glenno  threw out a challenge  to the BMWST group! (Get off your butts and get to Torrey)  Sadly he never made it that year... I came to Torrey anyhow and have never regretted my decision based on the passion Glenno exuded over the keyboard. Passion enough to induce me to ride 2400 miles out for his last ride.  A lot of changes since then,  we lost some dear friends and made some new ones. Each time I show up somewhere I have family, I hope ya'll feel the same.

[60Aviator]

5 hours ago, TEWKS said:

 

 

Hey, is that David Keith with Matt’s son? Yeah, no, maybe a little?  

 

TEWKS, getting old and eyesight going or do you owe him money?

[Twisties]

Hey Larry, 

 

Looks like you have had many thoughtful responses.  I haven't read them all, so forgive me if I am being repetitious of some.  

 

First, I want to say we will likely be there in some form for at least part of the time.  We want to see the folk we consider friends or even nearly family, and meet the new riders. Thinking we'll show up the morning of the group dinner, stay the night, ride some the next day and finish up at home, but nothing is set in stone for us yet.

 

We live on the southwestern edge of the San Juans and I was excited when you said the rally would be in the San Juans, our backyard. But, I had visions of something on the north side of the range in one of our historic mountain towns with restaurants, shops and proximity to fine dirt and street riding:  Ouray, Ridgeway,  or perhaps Telluride.  The wind kinda went out of my sails when I read it was Purgatory, and it was full on doldrums when I got a quote for a room at over $200/nt after all the taxes and fees.   

 

So, why?

 

1.  Certainly The Million Dollar Hwy is an attraction for those who haven't ridden it.  It is so spectacular that it takes my breath away every time I ride it, and it feels like I've never been....  but, it has gotten congested and once you've ridden it a time or two it stands as an obstacle to the great riding in the area which is all on the north side of the San Juans (145, 92, 65, and 149).  The location on the south side adds 2 hours round trip to any of the other listed roads.  Far better to have been based at the north end of The Million Dollar Hwy.

 

2.  Purgatory is isolated.  I really don't like being 35 minutes from any town with a variety of restaurants.  I'm not a fan of being captive at a resort's facilities.  So, so, so very much in our wonderful mountain towns.  I guess we'll enjoy them for lunch. 

 

3.  Purgatory base elevation is at 8800' amsl.  It's ok for us, but I know riders that might have come, but can't handle this.  It's one thing to ride over the pass and have the rest of the day and evening at lower elevation, it's another to base it so high.  By contrast, Ouray is a thousand feet lower at 7800', Ridgeway is at 7000', and Durango is 6500'.  IDK how many riders have made a decision based on the elevation, but I know it makes it impossible for at least one.

 

4.  No camping option.  The Haviland Lake Campground is across the street, more or less.  The USFS opens reservations 6 months in advance.  I went on rec.gov the 28th, which was the first day I could have reserved a block for the whole event and found the early days were already full.  That place fills up fast!   The Unrally was traditionally a camping event, as I understand it.  By the time I started in there were cheap hotels and camping.  Now, it's high end resorts.  

 

5.  That brings me back to price.  I don't recall what we paid at Red Lodge, but I'm thinking it was less than half of what Purgatory wants after tax and fees.  People are riding for days and it's already expensive without adding these kind of prices.  Several of the folk I've spoken to are just an outright "no" when they hear the lodging price, even before all the taxes and fees.  As for us personally, we could do it, but it's more than we like to pay and a big hit to our annual travel budget.  I'll call it a turnoff at least.  Possibly a deal breaker.  Haven't decided yet... but if you wanna know why we haven't reserved yet, price is the thing that stopped our reservation in it's tracks.  I get that the cost of travel and dining is up, and the area is expensive, and it's hard to find a facility in the area in the summer... It may just be the new reality, but that doesn't make me wanna do it.  

 

6.  It's early yet.  I actually thought you were doing pretty good at 45 people on the list so far.

 

7.   US-50 construction was supposed to be finished by now.  However, the website currently says construction will resume in the spring and continue through the summer.  The website says 

Quote

Travel impacts for motorists will be consistent throughout the project. For much of the roadwork, motorists should plan for single-lane closures, and full roadway closures reduced speed limits and narrowed roads. Signficant delays are anticipated.

 In the past this has meant full closure during the daylight hours on weekdays.  If US-50 is a problem at event time it will further complicate matters for nice day rides.

 

8.  Dirt riding.  The top tier dirt riding on the big name passes that people come to the area for is on the north side of the range.  People are not going to want to ride dirt bikes for 40 - 60 minutes each way on pavement to access the dirt roads.  Trailers will be needed, or riding will be for the big beasts more than dirt bikes.  There may be some near Purgatory, but I am not familiar with it.  Could turn out great if we can find some closer and maybe less congested routes.  Trying to be optimistic.  Never the less, style me disappointed to be an hour from Engineer or Yankee Boy/Imogene.  Pretty much limits doing those.  

[RandyShields]

3 hours ago, Calvin (no socks) said:

 I blitz out in 2 1/2 days, stay a day or two and turn for home...

Met Calvin on his way out of the parking lot in Torrey after his short visit in 2019.  Saw him again for a few minutes in Cedar Key a few weeks ago before he blasted for home; after learning that he captured the geocache that RightSpin and I hid after the event almost 20 years ago.  Hoping I have the opportunity to share an evening beverage with this peripatetic rider while we still can.

[Dennis Andress]

1 hour ago, Twisties said:

Hey Larry, 

 

Looks like you have had many thoughtful responses.  I haven't read them all, so forgive me if I am being repetitious of some.  

 

First, I want to say we will likely be there in some form for at least part of the time.  We want to see the folk we consider friends or even nearly family, and meet the new riders. Thinking we'll show up the morning of the group dinner, stay the night, ride some the next day and finish up at home, but nothing is set in stone for us yet.

 

We live on the southwestern edge of the San Juans and I was excited when you said the rally would be in the San Juans, our backyard. But, I had visions of something on the north side of the range in one of our historic mountain towns with restaurants, shops and proximity to fine dirt and street riding:  Ouray, Ridgeway,  or perhaps Telluride.  The wind kinda went out of my sails when I read it was Purgatory, and it was full on doldrums when I got a quote for a room at over $200/nt after all the taxes and fees.   

 

So, why?

 

1.  Certainly The Million Dollar Hwy is an attraction for those who haven't ridden it.  It is so spectacular that it takes my breath away every time I ride it, and it feels like I've never been....  but, it has gotten congested and once you've ridden it a time or two it stands as an obstacle to the great riding in the area which is all on the north side of the San Juans (145, 92, 65, and 149).  The location on the south side adds 2 hours round trip to any of the other listed roads.  Far better to have been based at the north end of The Million Dollar Hwy.

 

2.  Purgatory is isolated.  I really don't like being 35 minutes from any town with a variety of restaurants.  I'm not a fan of being captive at a resort's facilities.  So, so, so very much in our wonderful mountain towns.  I guess we'll enjoy them for lunch. 

 

3.  Purgatory base elevation is at 8800' amsl.  It's ok for us, but I know riders that might have come, but can't handle this.  It's one thing to ride over the pass and have the rest of the day and evening at lower elevation, it's another to base it so high.  By contrast, Ouray is a thousand feet lower at 7800', Ridgeway is at 7000', and Durango is 6500'.  IDK how many riders have made a decision based on the elevation, but I know it makes it impossible for at least one.

 

4.  No camping option.  The Haviland Lake Campground is across the street, more or less.  The USFS opens reservations 6 months in advance.  I went on rec.gov the 28th, which was the first day I could have reserved a block for the whole event and found the early days were already full.  That place fills up fast!   The Unrally was traditionally a camping event, as I understand it.  By the time I started in there were cheap hotels and camping.  Now, it's high end resorts.  

 

5.  That brings me back to price.  I don't recall what we paid at Red Lodge, but I'm thinking it was less than half of what Purgatory wants after tax and fees.  People are riding for days and it's already expensive without adding these kind of prices.  Several of the folk I've spoken to are just an outright "no" when they hear the lodging price, even before all the taxes and fees.  As for us personally, we could do it, but it's more than we like to pay and a big hit to our annual travel budget.  I'll call it a turnoff at least.  Possibly a deal breaker.  Haven't decided yet... but if you wanna know why we haven't reserved yet, price is the thing that stopped our reservation in it's tracks.  I get that the cost of travel and dining is up, and the area is expensive, and it's hard to find a facility in the area in the summer... It may just be the new reality, but that doesn't make me wanna do it.  

 

6.  It's early yet.  I actually thought you were doing pretty good at 45 people on the list so far.

 

7.   US-50 construction was supposed to be finished by now.  However, the website currently says construction will resume in the spring and continue through the summer.  The website says 

 In the past this has meant full closure during the daylight hours on weekdays.  If US-50 is a problem at event time it will further complicate matters for nice day rides.

 

8.  Dirt riding.  The top tier dirt riding on the big name passes that people come to the area for is on the north side of the range.  People are not going to want to ride dirt bikes for 40 - 60 minutes each way on pavement to access the dirt roads.  Trailers will be needed, or riding will be for the big beasts more than dirt bikes.  There may be some near Purgatory, but I am not familiar with it.  Could turn out great if we can find some closer and maybe less congested routes.  Trying to be optimistic.  Never the less, style me disappointed to be an hour from Engineer or Yankee Boy/Imogene.  Pretty much limits doing those.  

Ouray quoted $300 a night…

[roadscholar]

23 minutes ago, Dennis Andress said:

Ouray quoted $300 a night…

 

Exactly, we're not in Kansas anymore, ie post pandemic is a different world these days. Somebody said they'd bypass the resort and get a cheap room in Durango, I checked for those dates, avg motels range from I40-200. there was one under a hundred but I'd bet it's a fleabag. GF and I were forced to get the last room in Durango ten years ago late one night to avoid driving to Ouray at 3am on one of world's most dangerous highways in the dark (look it up : ) It was so nasty she wouldn't walk across the room w/o shoes on, but have at it to save fifty bucks : )

 

Larry's put in countless hours and several trips over there trying to give everyone a great experience at the most reasonable rates possible, as you may have deduced by now it's an area of high demand and rightly so, if you've never seen it you'll understand why. 

 

As far as dirt riding all the major passes to the north have become pretty difficult over the last 5-I0 years from being overrun by SxS and Jeep traffic, the dirt gets washed away leaving nothing but rocks and to me takes the fun out of it not to mention being more dangerous unless you're an expert and I haven't seen many of those around here lately, no offense : )

I'll put up some scenic easier dirt routes together later for anyone that may want them.

[Twisties]

26 minutes ago, roadscholar said:

As far as dirt riding all the major passes to the north have become pretty difficult over the last 5-I0 years from being overrun by SxS and Jeep traffic, the dirt gets washed away leaving nothing but rocks and to me takes the fun out of it not to mention being more dangerous unless you're an expert and I haven't seen many of those around here lately, no offense : )

I'll put up some scenic easier dirt routes together later for anyone that may want them.

 

I always thought of Ophir Pass as pretty easy.  I believe you and Danny (Huzband) rode it with us one year going over and back.  Joe (Coarsegold Kid) and I attempted it last summer from the town of Ophir on the west.  We had to turn back due to exactly what you say.  As well I think when all those big suv's encounter one another going in opposite directions the one on the inside will get it's wheels up on the cliffside and knock down a lot of loose rock.  We rode another "shelf road" that is much less trafficked without difficulty, but Ophir was deep in loose rock and had a high center with a foot or more of the stuff.  As well, the route was actually congested with traffic.  IIRC the day we were all on it the only vehicle we encountered was that ranger running radar on the pass.... which was shocking enough.  :-)

[drswift]

47 minutes ago, roadscholar said:

 

Exactly, we're not in Kansas anymore, ie post pandemic is a different world these days. Somebody said they'd bypass the resort and get a cheap room in Durango, I checked for those dates, avg motels range from I40-200. 

 

[drswift]

Check VRBO. We found one at the resort for $95/nite.

[roadscholar]

Good find and that was sort of my point, there are rooms there on this site for $138. why would you go to Durango.