BMWST.com....What have we become?

[Whip]

We can't fill 20 rooms at the Million Dollar Highway in Colorado for the UN Rally with some of the best mountain roads in the world.  WTF?

 

We had almost 200 people at Red Lodge.

 

I think some of the East Coast Un Rally's have been even bigger.

 

Is anyone from the East coming to Colorado?

 

Are we too old, fat, and lazy?

 

Are we riders or are we ex-riders and talkers?

 

I want to hear all the excuses.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RandyShields]

It's a fantastic location to ride and I would love to attend.  Unfortunately, for me, I have a family vacation previously planned for those dates.

[lawnchairboy]

I’ll be riding from the east coast.   Look forward to seeing whoever shows up.  
 

red lodge is a tough act to follow.   

[9Mary7]

START and DART this year for me.......that's all that fits into my schedule, for now anyway.

Things may change.

[TSConver]

Planning on coming but we are bringing our travel trailer / toyhauler for an extended vacation so we are camping nearby.

[Skywagon]

I would love to come.... envious actually...but it's 2 days up, 2 days back and 2400miles roundtrip plus the rally.  It's too far for me solo.  Great place though.

[9Mary7]

5 hours ago, Skywagon said:

It's too far for me solo

If I can fit it in, I'll be towing the bike there. Yup, too far.

[Skywagon]

Come get me😁

[Scott9999]

1 hour ago, Skywagon said:

Come get me😁

Lol, you just gave Alan ( @9Mary7) a reason.  Now he HAS to go.  😁

[RTinNC]

Great location for sure!   For me just too many other riding trips planned for 2023.   Lot's or riding options. 

[MikeB60]

Wouldn't miss it! We are trailering out to Denver, lots of hot boring space between Georgia and Colorado, and riding over from there.  

[realshelby]

"We can't fill 20 rooms at the Million Dollar Highway in Colorado for the UN Rally with some of the best mountain roads in the world.  WTF?"

 

I gave my thoughts......and yes I have been there several times. 

[Dave_in_TX]

I have been thinking about attending but agree with realshelby regarding venue and motels.

[Whip]

1 hour ago, realshelby said:

I may attend. But it will be a decision made a couple weeks before. Some here know that I care very much for this forum and those that make it up. So by NO means is what I am going to write anything BUT constructive criticism. 

Having been in that area before, it just isn't that good of riding for an RT. If you have not been there, it certainly is a wonderful area. But there is one road that an RT can travel on and even when you get quite a few miles in either direction it is still the same main road. No little loops or off track backroad communities, etc. This is GREAT for off road riding!!!  BUT even so it is not where I want to be on a GS taking a chance on a pig like that 1100 miles from home. If I had a true off road bike I could trailer....that would be great. 

Next is the venue. Beautiful. But spread out. That means fragmented groups. While I get the "meeting areas", look at this from a newcomer prospective. NOT so welcoming as many events. Even for those attending regularly, the fragmentation is to me an issue. Cost? I get $175 for a nice room isn't a lot these days. But I also have to get rooms on the road to get there. So I am in for over $1200 just in Motel rooms. Dining isn't cheap in the Durango area. While I am quite able to spend that and not miss it, that isn't how I got that way either. 

I think we are more worried about the venue attraction/status than we are about the riding experience. The riding experience and comradery that comes with that is what built BMWRT/BMWST over the years. Think about that angle. I am just as happy in a decent ( meaning clean and not much more ) motel and talking with others in the parking lots or picnic areas than I am in a lodge. 

Yes, we are getting older and lazier! At one time I would have loved to tent camp for a trip like this. That adventure is missing from our rallies and has been for years. Campers at best are typically off site and seemingly not even thought much about in planning. 

The area is remote enough that there is going to be a lot less "local" ( under 500 miles to me ) members able to attend. East coast is hard to be for having great riding, food, AND lots of members fairly close. West Coast can be the same as it simply has the population. But lower Colorado won't compete in the numbers challenge I think. 

 

My good man you are a great supporter of this board and your thoughts and concerns are very important to ME!

 

Obviously I am not doing a good job of describing the event… my bad. 

We have a group meeting area to hang out in every night called “Hoodies”. The map of the area makes it look big but no rooms are more than a couple hundred yards from each other.

This location is 100% RT friendly.

 

There are several half day and full day loops with multiple mountain passes in all directions.

 

Million Dollar highway is a bucket list ride for anyone with a bike.

 

Everything is more expensive than it used to be. 
 

Colorado has the greatest concentration of mountain passes and twisty roads west of the Mississippi. 
 

 

 

Edited February 4, 2023 by Whip

[Matts_12GS]

On 2/3/2023 at 10:13 AM, lawnchairboy said:

I’ll be riding from the east coast.   Look forward to seeing whoever shows up.  
 

red lodge is a tough act to follow.   

I'll be there.  Booked at the lodge.

 

Having run some 15 events and two UN Rallies, cost is always a factor.

 

The business travelers complain if they can't use their hotel points.  The coastal dwellers complain about the distance. The cheapskates and some of the retirees complain about the cost of hotels and the lack of freebies (ask me for examples... PLEASE).... The RT riders complain that routes were made He Man GS riders who go forever and might see some dust from the shoulder.  The young GS guys just want to get dirty.  The young families that want to include the wives or kids are made to feel like lepers.

 

This group used to regularly ride coast to coast.  Five hundred miles for pie and a good story was the norm.   All on bikes without the creature comforts that are now standard.

 

Just the same...  I'll be there with my wife, my pup and my GS riding one of the most stunning places in the country, celebrating life after my laryngectomy...  Get out and live, there are fewer days left to do it then ever before.

Edited February 4, 2023 by Matts_12GS
More to say

[** Chris **]

I agree with Matt.  The area is a spectacular area to ride with lots of cool little towns to stop in and eat.  
To me, these events are more about the people.  I’ll ride across the barren wasteland of West Texas to visit with my friends.  
This is definitely a case of you can’t please everyone.  While I’ve never organized one of these events or really active on the board, I love attending these events to visit with old friends and meet new friends.  

People who haven’t been there and people who have been but not in a while, should come out and ride in one of the nicest areas to ride in the heat of summer.  
 

I will be the one drinking beer hanging out with Matt.  

[hANNAbONE]

I have ridden Colorful Colorado for decades and it NEVER EVER gets old.

 

Durango//Ouray area and the Million Dollar Highway is everything you've ever heard about riding the mountains and hitting the corners and small towns on the way through.

 

You simply cannot find a bad road or a wrong route.

 

Point yourself N E W S and you will find a terrific pathway to lead you to 2-wheeled Nirvana.

 

I've made many a memory in Colorado and I plan on doing it yet again this coming Summer.

 

Chris ^^up there^^ hit it on the head...I'd travel states away to meet up with my friends both old & new.

 

There isn't anything better than have a long ride from early morning til sunset and have a cold one (*one..??*) and tell all the lies near a campfire or a dinner table.

 

There aren't going to be many more of these for old guys like me (*turning 70 in 2023*) but while I can still get gear on and swing a leg over my 2-wheels I'm gonna make it.

 

Now any of you on the fence about the area or the hotel digs or the time of year - just STOP IT.!! The planners have done, yet again, a wonderful job in securing a fabulous place to gather.

 

Give yourself the inner "OK" to go and jump with all of us - you will make memories that will hold up for your lifetime and beyond, I guarantee it.....

 

PM me if you are on the fence.

[hANNAbONE]

On 2/3/2023 at 10:13 AM, lawnchairboy said:

I’ll be riding from the east coast.   Look forward to seeing whoever shows up.  
 

red lodge is a tough act to follow.   

 

LCB : if you are riding from the EAST COAST, why not ride WEST with me.?

 

I have a planned stay @ my daughters in Des Moines (*570 miles from my door*) in Versailles, IN

 

And the next day would be an easy 750-ish ride to Colorado.

 

Doable..?

[C_Williams]

In and booked

 I for one would not miss a chance to ride some of the best roads in the country and meet up with old friends and making new ones.

 Anyone on the fence for this great event should really consider, the effort gone into organizing and planning, what surely will be full of fun roads fantastic scenery and socializing with some very fine people.

[BrianT]

I wouldn't miss this UN as some of my favorite riding is in this area.  Like Chris said, the people make these events special, not just the roads.  When I ride through or stay at some of the places we've held previous rides or UN's and I'm solo or with a few friends, it doesn't feel the same.

 

The million dollar highway isn't even the appeal for me.  Seems like every time I'm on it, I'm stuck behind slow jeeps and RV's or waiting for a construction sign man to allow me to proceed.  So I just look at that road as enjoying the scenery and not hooning it up.  I also enjoy the towns along that road.  However, there are other good RT roads for day rides from Purgatory.  Yea they take more than a few hours to complete but the riding and scenery are worth it.

 

San Juan Mountains west of the million dollar highway.

 

 

 

Unaweep Tabeguache Scenic Byway.  It's like riding in a mini Grand Canyon.  There's a nice lunch spot at Gateway, CO at the resort and a car museum.

 

 

 

The infamous Black Canyon never gets old.

 

 

There are a ton of other great roads in Colorado that are farther out but make for great routes to and from the UN location.  The good riding for me isn't just during the days of the event but tying in great roads to and from while avoiding the boring interstate.

 

As for the original question about thinning numbers of members at events, I think it's a combo of things.  Most of the riders I started out with here either don't ride any more by choice or cant due to medical issues.  Some moved on to other brands and fell away from this site or just do local rides.  A small chunk of that group have also passed away as the years go by.  Let's face it, there aren't many youngsters joining our group as some of us age out or move on to other hobbies or just cut back on days on the road.  Whether it be lifestyle choices or cost, I think we're loosing more active riders than we gain.

 

The other part of this is cost.  Not specific to the event location but travelling in general.  After Covid, hotels jacked up rates.  Gas is more expensive.  Restaurants have staffing shortages and increased prices.  Without turning this into a political discussion, a dollar today does not go as far as it did in heyday of UnRallys.  I definitely feel the pinch now that I didn't back in the day.  Especially now that I'm retired and not seeing the raises I did while working.  Don't ask what my credit card bill was after 18 days on the road covering 7000 miles going to and from the WV UN last year.  But it's still money well spent for my mental and spiritual health.  But I also understand why others who aren't as fortunate as I am can't travel like they used to.

 

Riding is my addiction and you all are my brothers in arms.

[chrisolson]

A few of thoughts :

• Some of the "usual suspects" who haunt the UnRallies are getting a bit older (as in me) and longer distances now are more of a challenge than in prior years.  Its one reason I'm Jeeping and not riding but I still get to re-unite with old friends  and maybe make some new ones... with the bonus that there are some spectacular trails to run in the area
• I also think the perception of the venue is more spread out than it actually is has been a factor... along with the different lodging choices vs a standard lodge/hotel room accomodation adding some additional concern.
• And yes, an earlier reveal of a common meeting area and a group dinner (and time and date for both) might have been more enticing.

 

Everything is more expensive which does disadvantage longer events ... but even Best Western in Durango is $237 a night for the July dates

 

Last thought is folks don't have to book the entire event at the resort.  Come for two or three days, stay in town,  and enjoy the riding in the area,  and meet up at the resort for the social aspect of BMWST events.

 

I'm looking forward to it !

 

 

 

 

[Dennis Andress]

I just need to get off my ass...

 

Whip led three of us around Colorado on the way to Canaan Valley last year. These routes will make buying tires for your RT worthwhile

 

The Gateway Auto Museum for lunch.

https://goo.gl/maps/vFAXnqXK7W8mYCMa7

 

The Black Canyon of the Gunnison. North of Maher, CO State Rt. 92 is also a worthy ride. Making a loop back to Montrose not so much. Turning around and going to Gunnison would be better, but there's nothing in Gunnison I can speak well of.       OR  ....

https://goo.gl/maps/NJQpNxSWTfgeVpoh8

 

....  This could be the way back to Purgatory. But google maps tends to ignore roads closed because of winter -  @Whip What do you know about State Rt 149?

https://goo.gl/maps/BoSKsTviJQwtaKNe9

 

This looks like a fun day

https://goo.gl/maps/RcomqVQ4QuGKFWXQ9

 

If you think making  this a two day trip sounds like fun then do I have a deal for you!

https://goo.gl/maps/UL9Ui3CtjXv9eQur7

[chrisolson]

48 minutes ago, Dennis Andress said:

The Gateway Auto Museum for lunch.

 

 

Been there, and I'd say the museum is worthy of the ride over    ... 

 

https://www.gatewaycanyons.com/gateway-auto-museum/

[C_Williams]

1 hour ago, Dennis Andress said:

Whip led three of us around Colorado on the way to Canaan Valley last year. These routes will make buying tires for your RT worthwhile

 

I can attest to that

 

Just an example or the scenery

Lake.HEIC

[Dennis Andress]

3 minutes ago, C_Williams said:

I can attest to that

 

Just an example or the scenery

Lake.HEIC 2.74 MB · 4 downloads

 

HEIC is foreign to the real world...

 

 

 

[lawnchairboy]

cottonwood pass?

[lawnchairboy]

cottonwood pass?

[BrianT]

12 minutes ago, lawnchairboy said:

cottonwood pass?

Good eye.  Yes.

[BrianT]

1 hour ago, C_Williams said:

I can attest to that

 

Just an example or the scenery

Two more shots from same area.

 

Taylor Park Reservoir below Cottonwood Pass

 

 

 

View in the other direction of where Carl took his pic on Cottonwood pass.

 

[Dennis Andress]

21 minutes ago, lawnchairboy said:

cottonwood pass?

That was fun!

[RTinNC]

3 hours ago, Dennis Andress said:

I just need to get off my ass...

 

Whip led three of us around Colorado on the way to Canaan Valley last year. These routes will make buying tires for your RT worthwhile

 

The Gateway Auto Museum for lunch.

https://goo.gl/maps/vFAXnqXK7W8mYCMa7

 

The Black Canyon of the Gunnison. North of Maher, CO State Rt. 92 north is also a worthy ride. Making loop back to Montrose not so much. Turning around and going to Gunnison would be better, but there's nothing in Gunnison I can speak well of.       OR  ....

https://goo.gl/maps/NJQpNxSWTfgeVpoh8

 

....  This could be the way back to Purgatory. But google maps tends to ignore roads closed because of winter -  @Whip What do you know about State Rt 149?

https://goo.gl/maps/BoSKsTviJQwtaKNe9

 

This looks like a fun day

https://goo.gl/maps/RcomqVQ4QuGKFWXQ9

 

If you think making  this a two day trip sounds like fun then do I have a deal for you!

https://goo.gl/maps/UL9Ui3CtjXv9eQur7

State route 149 is awesome!

 

took it from US 50 all the way through Lake City and Creede.  Creede is my new favorite town 😁.  Then on to Great Sand Dunes NP.

[Dennis Andress]

If you have to go east to get home this is a place to stop and contemplate crossing The Plains

 

Skyline Drive
https://maps.app.goo.gl/afgrxNLi9jWZ15YY7?g_st=ic

[randy]

I have commented offline to a post but will say some things here.

As noted above, NOT Political, but the 2.5 years of the economy shut down did affect a lot of people.  I know my company laid off almost 20% of its work force.  Now 2 years later we are stronger than ever, and management did the correct thing getting ahead of the curve back then, but for the 20% of employees I am sure they were affected.

Life changes, and money allocation changes, my youngest Son decided to go back to college and is doing great, but college is expensive.

No doubt inflation is affecting a lot of us, food, Gas, Motel, car prices (I have not owned a car since 2020) etc.

Lots of other options, in the EAST we have START and FART and winter lunch rides and monthly rides, to be honest we can ride pretty much every weekend with some small group and do it all for about the cost of one UnRally

My Son lives in Colorado and I have not seen him since 2019.  I am coming, but in order to have the funds to attend this event I had to give up a family vacation.  Luckily my wife understands this is a one-time thing and spending a week riding with my Son (last done in 2008) should not be missed.

just because i am comfortable giving this information out, my budget is (and I am assuming gas prices will rise come summer)
Gas to CO and back to Atlanta. 750.00 - 800.00 (that is a vehicle pulling a trailer with three bikes cost split two ways so 400.00 for me)
Gas for bike in CO   175.00 -225.00
Motel costs 8 nights 1,850.00 - 2,100.00
Food costs (generally we eat very reasonably) 225.00 - 275.00 (this could be much higher for other people)
missed work pay (I do not get paid time off)   250.00

New set of tires 350.00

Entrance to National/State parks I plan to visit 100.00+
Minimum cost is 3,250.00 - 3,500.00

An east coast START or FART will cost me 600.00 total.  so, I could do 5-6 East coast events in 2023 for this 1 Unrally.

Again, that is my budget, but I suspect it is probably pretty close for anyone coming east of the Mississippi.

 

I work a part time second job, my day job, pays our bills, puts money into retirement, pays for my son's college etc.  the Part Tim gig pays for my bike, tires, farkels, and events.  For me, even with this being a chance to spend a week with my son, I would not be able to attend if I did not have a second job.

Not sure about your experience, but generally speaking, in my small circle of friends right now money is tight for most of us.  

[randy]

is 742 to Taylor park Trading post paved?  or is the a GS/dual sport only road?

[Dennis Andress]

1 hour ago, randy said:

is 742 to Taylor park Trading post paved?  or is the a GS/dual sport only road?

 

Paved. Fast. 

[hANNAbONE]

18 hours ago, BrianT said:

I wouldn't miss this UN as some of my favorite riding is in this area.  Like Chris said, the people make these events special, not just the roads.  When I ride through or stay at some of the places we've held previous rides or UN's and I'm solo or with a few friends, it doesn't feel the same.

 

The million dollar highway isn't even the appeal for me.  Seems like every time I'm on it, I'm stuck behind slow jeeps and RV's or waiting for a construction sign man to allow me to proceed.  So I just look at that road as enjoying the scenery and not hooning it up.  I also enjoy the towns along that road.  However, there are other good RT roads for day rides from Purgatory.  Yea they take more than a few hours to complete but the riding and scenery are worth it.

 

San Juan Mountains west of the million dollar highway.

 

 

 

Unaweep Tabeguache Scenic Byway.  It's like riding in a mini Grand Canyon.  There's a nice lunch spot at Gateway, CO at the resort and a car museum.

 

 

 

The infamous Black Canyon never gets old.

 

 

There are a ton of other great roads in Colorado that are farther out but make for great routes to and from the UN location.  The good riding for me isn't just during the days of the event but tying in great roads to and from while avoiding the boring interstate.

 

As for the original question about thinning numbers of members at events, I think it's a combo of things.  Most of the riders I started out with here either don't ride any more by choice or cant due to medical issues.  Some moved on to other brands and fell away from this site or just do local rides.  A small chunk of that group have also passed away as the years go by.  Let's face it, there aren't many youngsters joining our group as some of us age out or move on to other hobbies or just cut back on days on the road.  Whether it be lifestyle choices or cost, I think we're loosing more active riders than we gain.

 

The other part of this is cost.  Not specific to the event location but travelling in general.  After Covid, hotels jacked up rates.  Gas is more expensive.  Restaurants have staffing shortages and increased prices.  Without turning this into a political discussion, a dollar today does not go as far as it did in heyday of UnRallys.  I definitely feel the pinch now that I didn't back in the day.  Especially now that I'm retired and not seeing the raises I did while working.  Don't ask what my credit card bill was after 18 days on the road covering 7000 miles going to and from the WV UN last year.  But it's still money well spent for my mental and spiritual health.  But I also understand why others who aren't as fortunate as I am can't travel like they used to.

 

Riding is my addiction and you all are my brothers in arms.

 

 

Give me Delores Canyon Road every time..!! Made some serious memories with sIRrODNEY on that hardtop many many times.

[ltljohn]

If I did not have a family wedding the very same week I would be going.   A bit of researck reveals lots of spectacular riding.

[randy]

6 hours ago, Dennis Andress said:

 

Paved. Fast. 

I forgot to be specific 

is 742 from Gunnison to Taylor Park Trading Post paved

thanks 

[roadscholar]

Yes it’s paved. It’s why they paved the west side of Cottonwood Pass so people could take the more direct route from Buena Vista to Crested Butte.

[lawnchairboy]

when it is dry it is a fun slalom ride, particularly W-E from the lake to BV.  

 

It used to be 'interesting' when it was dirt and raining and you went from the BV side (paved) to the lake side (dirt).  

[TEWKS]

9 hours ago, randy said:

Gas to CO and back to Atlanta. 750.00 - 800.00 (that is a vehicle pulling a trailer with three bikes cost split two ways so 400.00 for me

Oh, I think you’re being a little conservative on that money. Last year trucking down and back to Maggie Valley cost me $600 x 2 in an ecoBoost F 150 pulling a two place and two bikes. 
 

As to Larry’s original question… I’m gonna have to go with just fat and lazy.   No, I really want to get back out to Colorado but… Sad because “but” is the only thing really stopping me. 

[roadscholar]

As long as we're reminiscing, here's a ride tale in pics of Edd riding the Cottonwood/Cumberland Pass loop (mostly dirt Salida>BV>Pitkin>Salida). I miss Edd, he was one of a kind.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[randy]

5 hours ago, hANNAbONE said:

 

 

Give me Delores Canyon Road every time..!! Made some serious memories with sIRrODNEY on that hardtop many many times.

what is the road number for Dolores Canyon Road?

I am assuming it is 145 between Dolores and Placerville ?
is that correct?

[drswift]

If we have over 40 attendees,  I don't understand why we haven't hit the 20 room goal. (Just my 2 cents worth).

 

That said... This is an awesome location, with amazing roads and riding choices. It does't get much better. I haven't been to an UN in a while due to vacation and travel schedule conflicts, so this year worked out for us and were looking for to seeing old faces and some great riding.

 

Maybe we are getting older, or have health limitations we didn't have in years past. I'm blessed to still be an active rider at 73. But it's obvious we're a shrinking group of active members with not a lot of new participants. 

 

Also, for most my age, living on fixed incomes in retirement has become aggravated by inflation and rising costs. Hotel costs are not cheap anywhere. But I do believe this is the big elephant in the room when discussing attendance. Originally we looked a a 3 night booking through the resort reservation system. With taxes and fees it was going to cost nearly $1,000. Fortunately,  we found an VRBO listing for $95 a night, so that was a big help.

 

Unfortunately, I think the group will continue to see the impact of an aging membership and the increasing costs of traveling. Having run one of these events in the past, the location will never make everyone happy regardless of the venue.

[lawnchairboy]

1 hour ago, randy said:

what is the road number for Dolores Canyon Road?

I am assuming it is 145 between Dolores and Placerville ?
is that correct?

I believe 145 is the road. Fun road.  

[hANNAbONE]

13 minutes ago, lawnchairboy said:

I believe 145 is the road. Fun road.  

 

[roadscholar]

141. Rikki don’t lose that number, it’s the only one to own. You’ll be glad you used it, when you get home : )

[randy]

I have Gateway Musuem on one of my routes, so I am good to go with 141, thanks

[realshelby]

Think about this. How old were most of us old timers here when we got into BMW's and/or BMWRT/ST? How much disposable income does the average 20-40 year old have? Unless we want to be an exclusive group, we need to think about making it easy to welcome the younger generation. Cost is a bigger factor than most want to admit. I have already been contacted off line by members about the first post I made, then deleted. I seem to have said what others were thinking. Which was what this thread was supposed to be about. Not hijacked......

[Matts_12GS]

I joined the board at 41 in 2005.  Disposable income is a pretty subjective issue as pretty much any motorcycle and related expenditure is disposable in the US.  

 

I think @whip is expressing is shock that such a home run of a location is at risk of losing our block of rooms. During my two UN Rallies, we had to beg for more rooms both times, and we ultimately sold out the entire Switzerland Inn during UN X.

 

To Randy's point, the east coast events are mostly 3 hours from home for the Atlanta crew so there is no stress getting there.  Even when lived in Jacksonville I was a full day away.  When I brought my family for a weekend event it was still $400 in gas then food, then souvenirs for the kids.  None of this cheap, just some events cost less.

 

I'm more disappointed that people felt the need to PM you instead of feeling they could contribute to the broader discussions.  Maybe that's the sense behind the thread title...?