Advice on a Russell Day Long Saddle

[MichiganBob]

Good Evening,

 

I'm thinking of digging deeper into my kid's inheritance by going for a Russell. In your humble opinions, what do you see as the pros and cons of vinyl, versus leather inserts, versus all leather? Also, I always ride solo. Does a Russell front and a stock rear seat look weird?  As always, thanks for your input and stay healthy.

 

Michiganbob

[John Ranalletta]

Go for it.  I've had many types but the RDL is by far the best for me.  Tried beads, sheepskins, etc. but nothing beats the RDL IMO.

[MichiganBob]

Thanks John. Did you do vinyll, leather inserts, of all leather?

 

MB

[TEWKS]

I think you’ll get different opinions on this but vinyl is going to be a little less picky on how it’s cared for. 
 

Riding in gear (stich) neutralizes any comfort benefit the leather seating area gives you.

 

The back seat being “just covered” by Russell is acceptable. 

[Lemans]

I went with vinyl and did the driver seat only. Looks fine. Leave the passenger seat stock and use the $$ for more functional farkles.

[kkm]

Vinyl & rider seat works and looks great. 

[Skywagon]

call them and tell them where you ride, weather, etc.  They will advise.  I have had 3 on 3 different bikes.  I ride solo 100% of the time.  I only do the driver and it looks fine with the passenger seat.  I do vinyl sides, leather seat.  If you eventually wear down the foam they will replace for a fraction of the cost of new.  The leather is more comfortable and less hot for me, but it isn't water proof.  If you use leather you will need to cover it if left outside in the rain.

 

The only con for me is with all that comfort comes a wider seat which will make your reach to the ground about 2 inches longer.

[MichiganBob]

Thanks Skywagon. I'm a little concerned with the height as I'm shrinking fast. Do those Knight Design pegs lower your feet a bit?

 

MB

[realshelby]

I have had several russells. Currently the RT has a Russell with the passenger area built ( sort of like the front ) for comfort. It has leather seating and vinyl sides. I have an all vinyl on the V Strom with double seating and basketweave seating pattern. They don't advertise the basketweave vinyl, but will do it when requested at no charge. I have had ALL leather. With and without backrests......

 

Don't EVER get all leather. The leather on the sides wrinkles and looks like crap after not too much use! Leather just doesn't return to shape as good as vinyl. 

Leather seating surface is good. I think it conforms to your shape and breaks in to be ever so slightly more comfortable. 
Breathability? Don't really see any difference. I do ride in decent riding gear at all times.

When I was at 230 lbs I ordered a "heavy" suspension on one seat. I don't think I like the feel of that! So, don't get that if you think you don't need it.

I have a set of Motoport mesh kevlar pants. They are very abrasive to seats, as they don't have the smooth textile seating area ( all mesh ). They have worn into the leather surface enough to the point I have died it a couple times. Never done that to the vinyl seat surface on the V Strom,  but it doesn't have near the miles on it either. Based on the other leather surface Russells, I think over lots of miles you will have the surface "show some character" from wear. If that is an issue, the vinyl is a better choice. 
 

[MichiganBob]

Great feedback. Thanks folks.

 

MB

 

 

[John Ranalletta]

11 hours ago, Skywagon said:

call them and tell them where you ride, weather, etc.  They will advise.  I have had 3 on 3 different bikes.  I ride solo 100% of the time.  I only do the driver and it looks fine with the passenger seat.  I do vinyl sides, leather seat.  If you eventually wear down the foam they will replace for a fraction of the cost of new.  The leather is more comfortable and less hot for me, but it isn't water proof.  If you use leather you will need to cover it if left outside in the rain.

 

The only con for me is with all that comfort comes a wider seat which will make your reach to the ground about 2 inches longer.

 

"The only con for me is with all that comfort comes a wider seat which will make your reach to the ground about 2 inches longer." 

 

Same here.  The saddle I have is wider under the thighs holding the upper leg higher.  Note: I bought mine used so it wasn't a custom fit.

 

[Ltripreno]

I am on my 4th RDL seat.  I always did both rider and passenger because my wife rides about 20% of the time.  On my GSA I did the Sunbrella canvas-like fabric because it was blue and matched the bike.  I liked it a lot on the GSA.  On my current '19 RT I went with leather inserts and vinyl sides.  I doubt if I could feel the difference between leather and vinyl.  My bikes are stored indoors and I cover it when traveling.

I am confident you will love your RDL no matter what covers you choose!

[David13]

On the way to Torrey I rode up to Redding, Shasta Lake and got a RDL seat.

 

By the time I got to Torrey I had determined to sell the thing as fast as I could.

 

It was the most horrible thing I ever sat on a motorcycle on.

 

First, it was like sitting in a bucket.  I couldn't move.  I couldn't slide right or left at all. 

 

Second, it had wings on the side that protruded upward.  It made it impossible for me to put my feet down at a stop.  Something I can do on any motorcycle. 

 

Because of the bucket shape of it I couldn't move forward, nor backward. 

 

As soon as I got home I sent it to somebody in PA who wanted it. 

 

And got an original back on, which I now realzie is not bad at all.

 

I would like the original in it's configuration, just a little wider at the sides, but with a curved down shape, down off the sides, so there is more support moving to one side or the other.

 

But I gave up long ago, as most I saw were a bucket shape, like a metal tractor seat.

dc

 

As to leather, I hate it in cars.  It does not 'breathe', it just sweats.  I hate it.  I always look for cloth seats.

[MichiganBob]

Any thoughts on David's comment on the saddle feeling confined?

[Cap]

My advice: buy it

 

I have had several RDL seats.  And several Sargent seats.  I usually start with a Sargent because they are sold off the shelf with their own custom seat pan.  And that means I can send the stock seat to Russell eventually, and never miss a day of riding.  And Sargent seats are good enough that I can ride most of a day before getting uncomfortable.  And Sargent seats are easy to sell, and will hold at least half their value in resale.

 

But if you ride longer distances, you will appreciate the Russell.  I second Terry's advice about avoiding leather.  I have had both, and I have two complaints about leather.  First, they are slick, and I found myself sliding around too much.  And second, if you park your bike outside and get caught in the rain, then leather is sub-optimal.  

 

Cap

[West_Coaster]

This the the RDL seat I have on my bike.  I don't like it. I also have a stock front seat that I use 99% of the time.

 

While I will say that the RDL is a more comfortable seat, it's only more comfortable on long rides with limited stops. I don't like the height increase which makes stopping with a passenger a little more challenging.  I seem to sit further back on the seat, the seat feels like 2 hands holding my butt cheeks. I have to sit in the back part of the seat, it's very uncomfortable for "the boys" if I try and ride up in the seat, it's very wide up front. My experience has been it is definitely a touring seat, not a ride around town or short 2-3 hour ride seat. The stock seat makes me feel more connected with the bike, the RDL you just sit on it. My wife says the back is slippery, though I would take that with a grain of salt.

 

[Pappy35]

1 hour ago, MichiganBob said:

Any thoughts on David's comment on the saddle feeling confined?

 

I have a 29" inseam and, yes, the seat does affect ground reach but, like anything, you adjust (or not). I've had these legs all my life and I've owned multiple liter+ bikes, so I guess I adjusted.

 

I have the "Sport" version of the seat so it doesn't lift as much but it is very wide. Oddly, much to my surprise, the wings aren't that much of a deal for me to work with. As originally delivered, I did find the shape a bit confining and in the year I've had it, I've sent it back twice for adjustments. The first one opened it up fore-aft and that took care of the confinement issue. I was having tail bone pain and we decided that the solution was to flatten it out a bit by taking out the dish so it's not so tractor-like. I have yet to log any miles on that since I just got it back a few days ago.

 

Everyone is different so it's really not possible to answer general "will it work for me" questions. The point of this response is to highlight that Russell is very good about working with you to fit the seat to you. You pay to ship it there and they do the mod and mail it back on their dime. There's no guarantee on the Sport seats but if you've got the legs for the Day Long, that has a satisfaction guarantee so there's no risk (other than shipping cost) to you. The only drawback is they use the OEM seat pan so if it doesn't work out, you'd have to buy a replacement seat of some kind.

 

I should also chime in about Sargent. I tried both of their seats (the regular and the low) and true to their word, they refunded my money when if became evident that neither would work for me. They are a great company to work with and, since theirs are stocked items, you can get them quicker than Russell's and you don't have to sacrifice your factory seat pan. If I were you, I'd try Sargent first, then if that doesn't work, go with Russell. 

[Skywagon]

Michigan Bob...as you are learning everybody's butt is different.  Yes it has wings.  I think it helps me stay firmly planted and I don't feel restricted on it at all.  I can still slide to left or right if I feel like I need to.. That doesn't happen often.  Yes as I pointed out and others have too, it does cause your reach to the ground to be further...approximately 2 inches.  For me that isn't an issue.  I can't flat foot with it, but I don't need to.  When I come to a stop, I either just lean a tad so I have one foot flat and one foot on the ball.  I have 30 inch inseam.  The other thing I do occasionally is slide forward when I stop on gravel or something slick and I can flat foot both feet then.

 

See if you can find one someplace and try it.  Seats are expensive no matter who's you buy.  You would hate to drop $4-600 on a seat whether sargent, RDL, or others to hate it.  Again as others posted if you don't mind the slight price hike I would recommend vinyl sides and leather seat.  Leather is much cooler in the summer than vinyl  

 

If you can't decide take off the BMW seat.  Put a mason brick in it's place with a piece of plastic over it and it will be more comfortable than the factory seat.

[9Mary7]

I have tried the RDL seats and do not like the "locked in" position.... feels like sitting in a bucket to me also. I move around when I ride so they don't work for me.

[alexp]

I had RDL on my last two bikes and love it.  The leather is very nice and soft.  I was afraid of getting hot seat with the vinyl and the sun beating on them like my old Sargent.  As soon as I get my new RT I'm ordering a RDL Leather.  I love the high feeling in the front too since I do have long legs.  Its not for the shorty ones for sure. 

[dduelin]

Seats are so personal but threads like this are necessary for general information that you can only get from other riders' experiences.

 

I've learned that I'm not that 'seat particular' for some reason. I can ride long distances and do on every bike I like enough to keep awhile and have done 1000 mile or more Saddlesore rides on stock seats, Sargents, a Corbin, a Rocky Mayer and an RDL. I was able to find all day tank to tank comfort on all of them. A blessing I suppose to not be particular. Currently I have a Mayer on the RT and a leather RDL on the Goldwing. On the shelf I have a Sargent that came with the RT and although my favorite seats in the past have been Sargents, I prefer the Mayer on the RT for now.

 

So if you decide the RDL in vinyl or leather or combination is the ticket and find out it's not what you expected, well you can easily sell it. RDLs are the Holy Grail for some but given my druthers I prefer a firmer seating surface over softer and slippery over tacky. The RDL is tolerable but not my favorite. The dished shape makes it harder to shift position and of course it's softer than the others and soft but thankfully not squishy. Squishy I can't abide and that is the only reason I've not liked a seat (stock ST1300 and hexhead RT).

[ArsenalBryan]

Hi all, just joined today, I have a 2015RT that I bought second hand and it had an RDL on it.  I’m used to riding sports bikes and have now aged, at a seasoned 38 years old, into sport touring bikes and this is the first one I’ve owned.  I’m 6 feet 220 lbs and have to say, the RDL is a really nice surprise...especially coming from my other bike, a Ducati 848.  I admit there’s not as much ‘road feel’ as a stock seat, but you can move around a bit for different feel.  I know it’s kind of an expensive endeavor to just go for it, but I recommend it.  It doesn’t look weird, either; here’s a picture of mine:

 

[Paul De]

I went with a Sargent on my Waterhead, but have a RDL on both rider and pillion saddles of my Oilhead.  The RDL is definitely more comfortable than the Sargent, particularly on longer rides.  I went with the half moon all vinyl and it has held up well for nearly 20 years.  The riders saddle at this point is likely in need of a foam refresh, but still is comfortable for 4 -5 hours before the onset of dead butt.    As other have commented reach to the ground and the sense of sitting more on top of the bike is the price for the long ride comfort, but I never found this spoiling my riding experience.  Where I could flat foot with the stock saddle, I now touch down with the balls of my feet and heels just off the ground.  Having spent my youth on dirt bikes where you only get to put one leg down the semi tippi-toe on the ground doesn't bother me, but I know folks  find anything less than flat foot to ground unacceptable. If that is a big issue for you Russell may be able to shape the front of the saddle narrower to help you get your feet to ground.

[MichiganBob]

Good Morning,

 

Now I got it. Saddles are like tires and oil.

 

MB

[Paul De]

Hahah, but unlike the oil threads where seat of the pants impressions are little more than unfounded opinions, for saddles it is the true piece of data and inversely related in the number of Advil tablets you take after a long ride.

[SpokaneJim]

Hello.  I have RDL on my last 6 bikes going back to the 1980's.  I even have a RDL on my DR650 which I ride in the Idaho on Forest Service Roads.  I prefer the leather option as I found it breathes vs the RDL vinyl.  On my FJR the RDL increases the seat height about 1-2 inches.  This gives me some relief in my hips and knee and I can get my feet on the ground - it is perfect - any higher would be too much.  The seat height and seat depth around the "wings" are custom fit.  My RDL on my FJR has about 85k on it.  It has been wet but dried out just fine.  It shows very little wear.  I cover my bike overnight when on trips.

 

I am new here and have a down payment on a R1250RT.  I live in Spokane Washington and the local BMW dealer doesn't have an RT in stock.  Would someone be so kind as to measure the distance from the top of the foot pegs to the top of a stock seat?  Thanks in advance.

[dduelin]

2 hours ago, Paul De said:

Hahah, but unlike the oil threads where seat of the pants impressions are little more than unfounded opinions, for saddles it is the true piece of data and inversely related in the number of Advil tablets you take after a long ride.

Speaking of unfounded, seat comfort based on time in the saddle is often undefined. A long comfortable ride for some is to lunch in the next county, some the RTE is to the next state, and to someone else it's to a lunch gathering in the next time zone.

[Pappy35]

9 hours ago, MichiganBob said:

Good Morning,

 

Now I got it. Saddles are like tires and oil.

 

MB

Finally! Took you long enough!!! 

[MichiganBob]

Welcome to this fine Board SpokaneJim. I'm not sure if my 2018 RT is the same as what you will find on your new ride. From the edge and horizontal center of my stock saddle in the low position to the edge of the footpeg is 17.25 inches.

 

My oldest lives in Leavenworth, WA. Next time I ride out, I'll let you know and buy you a coffee or brewski in your fine city..

 

MichiganBob

[BamaJohn]

11 hours ago, SpokaneJim said:

Hello.  I have RDL on my last 6 bikes going back to the 1980's.  I even have a RDL on my DR650 which I ride in the Idaho on Forest Service Roads.  I prefer the leather option as I found it breathes vs the RDL vinyl.  On my FJR the RDL increases the seat height about 1-2 inches.  This gives me some relief in my hips and knee and I can get my feet on the ground - it is perfect - any higher would be too much.  The seat height and seat depth around the "wings" are custom fit.  My RDL on my FJR has about 85k on it.  It has been wet but dried out just fine.  It shows very little wear.  I cover my bike overnight when on trips.

 

I am new here and have a down payment on a R1250RT.  I live in Spokane Washington and the local BMW dealer doesn't have an RT in stock.  Would someone be so kind as to measure the distance from the top of the foot pegs to the top of a stock seat?  Thanks in advance.

I'd measure the seat height on my '17RT, but I have an RDL on it.....(my 5th one)  

[MichiganBob]

Good Evening,

 

Thanks everyone for your feedback. After weighing it all, I'm ordering the RDL this week with vinyl, leather insert, and rain cover. Looking forward to it. Hope I won't need high healed sneakers. 

 

Tommy Tucker sings it right:

 

Put on your high-heel sneakers, Lordy
Wear your wig-hat on your head
Put on your high-heel sneakers, child
Wear your wig-hat on your head
Ya know you're looking mighty fine, baby
I'm pretty sure you're gonna knock 'em dead

 

MichiganBob

 

 

[Skywagon]

I think you will like it.  One thing you need to ask about...Maybe someone else will have a better memory than me.  There was someone here who ordered one and they put the seat heater up pretty high.  It was so high even on low it was too hot.  When I ordered mine they were aware of the issue and placed mine further down in the foam and it works great.  You might ask them about that issue.

[MichiganBob]

Will do. Many thanks.

[realshelby]

Rain Cover? I didn't write about that earlier. I bought one with one of my builds. Used it on one trip. Never again. They don't fit all that well and are VERY slick to sit on. 

 

On the other hand, my bike sits overnight at motels and such with the BMW travel cover so the seat isn't going to sit in water all night. Yet it HAS been in water most of a day on a few occasions as well as the downpours you are going to have at any time when riding. 

 

Never has the seat seemed to get soggy or push out water when you sit on it. I do park on the side stand when I am in rain and run into a store or restaurant to keep puddling to a minimum. These seats have a plastic layer under the cover, so the only water intrusion is through the stitching. I keep my seat treated with leather conditioner and I think that tends to help seal the threads some too. I wouldn't buy another rain cover personally. 

[strataj]

My RDL is all leather, I either use the cover I purchased with the seat or an Aerostich bike cover at night.  I apply https://www.montanapitchblend.com/ a couple of times a year and have never had a soaked seat.  Water doesn't seem to penetrate the leather or seams.  I've been using this product since 2003 on my leather bike saddles.  The RDL is the best all day saddle in my opinion.

[MichiganBob]

Good Morning,

 

Anyone else have thoughts about the RDL rain seat cover?  Many thanks.

 

MichiganBob

[MichiganBob]

Or  are using another seat rain cover that you recommend.

 

MB

[Skywagon]

I don’t have a rain cover. I keep the leather conditioned with McGuairs. I carry a small half bike cover if I know I’m going to be out in the rain. I keep a plastic garbage bag in the pannier year round. I use it in the summer to rewet my cooling vest and if caught out in the rain unexpectedly I cover the seat with it so I don’t get wet. My RDL’s have been drenched many times with no ill effects or apparent water retention 

Buy it if it gives you peace of mind but honestly don’t think you need it

[John Ranalletta]

4 minutes ago, Skywagon said:

I don’t have a rain cover. I keep the leather conditioned with McGuairs. I carry a small half bike cover if I know I’m going to be out in the rain. I keep a plastic garbage bag in the pannier year round. I use it in the summer to rewet my cooling vest and if caught out in the rain unexpectedly I cover the seat with it so I don’t get wet. My RDL’s have been drenched many times with no ill effects or apparent water retention 

Buy it if it gives you peace of mind but honestly don’t think you need it

 

Have a full cover for overnights but keep a plastic trash bag in a side to cover seats for occasional use.  I tow a lot and put both seats in a separate trash bag and reinstall the seats.

[MichiganBob]

Good Evening,

 

I put in my RDL order. Looking forward to it. Ordered vinyl with leather insert. Under quilting choice, I was debating the half moon versus the rectangles. Since I am retaining my stock passenger saddle, I was thinking that the half moon would look better. Also, I was thinking the fewer seams the better for comfort and rain protection. But I wonder if the rectangle would give a little more cushion support and perhaps allow for a little more air flow than the half moon. I know that some of you have one RDL and some have had many. Do you experience any differences between rectangle and half moon other than the visual?

 

Many thanks and wishing you a joyous and healthy Christmas.

 

MichiganBob

 

 

[Rinkydink]

I’ve had both in leather. 6 of one half a dozen of the other. I used rain cover every time just in case. 

[realshelby]

I have both the half moon and the large rectangles on the two bikes I own. Hard to be exact because the bikes are different. But I have had those two patterns on the other bikes over the years too. 

 

IMO the large rectangles look better on the RT. The half moon looks good on the V Strom. While it might look like the rectangles have more padding....I don't think there is any difference in comfort or air flow. 

 

Buy what you like and all will be good. 

[Dingo55]

Hi everyone

How to go about getting a RDL in down south Western Australia for a 2017 r1200rt?

I'm 6'4" so no reaching ground problems

Has anyone bought a second hand RDL and found it useable

How individual are these seats 

Appreciate all opinions

Cheers

Mark

[realshelby]

I have written before that I would buy a used Russell over a new aftermarket ( insert brand here ) every time. I have bought used Russells and while there may be slight tweaks that could be done they are still more comfortable than any other seat. So don't let the "built for this rider" worry you too much unless it is some oddball build. The basic design is similar in about all the Russells. Tweaks in angle, how far back or forward you sit, how much foam, etc. are the differences. I find you adapt to the seat even if not built for you. There was one I bought that had a too far forward sitting position, but it still worked well enough. That one had a backrest built  into it. I have had two of the backrest seats. Never again!

[Dingo55]

Thanks for that 

Do these seats come on the market often ? If so where to look?

Funny you mention about dislike of the backrest

I've sworn I'd never have another ride that didn't have a backrest

Guess we're all different

Cheers

Mark 

[migrant]

I've bought 3 Russell seats from other riders...one for a '99 GS, one for a KLR and one for a WR250R (still have that one)...before doing a "ride-in" on my '18 RT to have one built for me. Before that, I'd done 3 "ride-ins" with Rick Mayer (the son of the Russell originator) and was pleased with those. Corbin and Sargent seats were on the firm side and didn't appeal to me. In my opinion, the Russell was the better choice, used or new. As Terry stated, you can adapt to a range of seating positions, but I'd stay away from a seat built for a really short person given your height. I'm not a backrest guy either.

 

No, they don't come on the used market often. One reason may be that Russell, Laam, Meyer and possibly others are built using the stock seat as a base and will likely be sold with the bike. Corbin and Sargent are built using their own bases. When it comes to selling their bike, an owner can decide to put the stock seat back on the bike and sell the Corbin or Sargent seat separate.

 

Where to look? MOA, this site, BMWLT, Craigslist, Facebook, ADV Rider. I never thought I'd find one for my WR250R, then one day...

[Rinkydink]

I just sold an RDL, not for an RT but a F900XR. The buyer, a veteran of RDL usage didn’t care for it as it put him “too close to the gas tank.” He told me he may resell it for that reason. We were basically the same height, weight, and inseam. It is a custom seat after all and what’s good for the goose is not always good for the gander. 

[MichiganBob]

I'm not sure I ever reported on the RDL. I love it. It's the most comfortable seat I've had in my 50+ years of riding. Of course I don't know how it compares to other custom saddles as it is not feasible to try different mounts.  And as with everything else, there's is no shortage on opinions as to what is the best and worst.

 

The rain seat works great, especially overnight in a motel. No wet seat in the morning. True, a garbage bag works as well but it was the cost of a lunch and dinner or half a tank of gas so what the hell.

 

There was a lot of talk on how the RDL is taller than the stock seat. I agree but not so much that it is an issue on getting on and off. When stopping, you adapt by sliding forward a tad (sometimes) to increase pavement contact but it is more subtle than abrupt.

 

I'm pleased with the purchase.

[lkraus]

If a used RDL does not work for you, it's easy to re-sell.  

 

After looking about six months, I found my front and rear RDL seats either here in the classifieds,or in the BMWMOA Marketplace, can't remember.  Came as a set, though the rider seat is a little older and the vinyl is slightly different than the passenger seat. Made for a rider of my height but about 25 pounds lighter, it has allowed me to ride up to 1500 miles without a thought for my butt. The stock seat becomes painful after as little as 200 miles, though I do use it if I will be running errands in the city with stop and go traffic.

[Skywagon]

Ive owned 3 on different bikes and sold 2.  I never heard anything back from the buyers so assume they were happy with them.

 

Write to Russell and ask any questions you might have.  They are good folk.

 

What I remember about their process is about weight, building up the front, and reducing size for some shorter folks.  From memory if you weigh more that 220lbs, they add springs.  If you owned one of the 1100 or 1150's the factory seat made you sit forward and it was uncomfortable.  Most people with 1100's and 1150's asked Russell to build up the front to make the seat level...I did and it worked.  If you were shorter you could ask them to make it less tall but that didn't really help much as the wings on the side cause your legs to spread out.

 

They do use your seat.  What I always do is find a cheap original seat on ebay and send it to them.  That way I have my original seat and I can resell the Russell when it is time for a new bike.  If you want heat in the seat you have to let them know.  It is an option.

 

As migrant said .... MOA, this site, BMWLT, Craigslist, Facebook, ADV Rider.  One will come along.  I'll try to keep an eye out for you.