Final drive leak/rebuild

[Ladioviro]

I took off my final drive today because it felt a bit grindy when turning it by hand. During the removal I noticed a few tbsp of black oil come out of that rubber accordion boot between the swingarm and the drive. 

 

Am I right in believing that this can come down the driveshaft, or would it be coming from the final drive side given that it's a bit grinds-sounding anyway. 

 

I tried to look up into the shaft (see below) but it didn't really give away anything. 

 

Has anyone rebuilt the drive? Could the amateur mechanic do it? Grinding would suggest bearing and I don't have a press so maybe i could drop it in to the local and hope for the best. 

 

Cheers for any help

Edited December 27, 2019 by Ladioviro
typos

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, Ladioviro said:

I took off my final drive today because it felt a bit grindy when turning it by hand. During the removal I noticed a few tbsp of black oil come out of that rubber accordion boot between the swingarm and the drive. 

 

Am I right in believing that this can come down the driveshaft, or would it be coming from the final drive side given that it's a bit grinds-sounding anyway. 

 

I tried to look up into the shaft (see below) but it didn't really give away anything. 

 

Has anyone rebuilt the drive? Could the amateur mechanic do it? Grinding would suggest bearing and I don't have a press so maybe i could drop it in to the local and hope for the best. 

 

Cheers for any help

 

 

 

Morning Ladioviro

 

That gear oil in the boot is USUALLY from a seeping pinion seal but it can also be from a leaking rear transmission seal.  

 

From the  pictures it doesn't look like it is running down the swing arm tube but not really enough info to tell for sure. 

 

As for rebuilding the final drive at home?, it is possible but takes specials tools & measuring instruments  (most can be made at home but takes some fabrication skills). 

 

The usual failure is the large crown bearing, the actual bearing & seal  replacement  is easy BUT it does need to be properly shimmed  THAT takes special knowledge & precision measuring equipment.

 

Replacing the pinion seal at home is a real pain but  can be done with some tool fabrication. (even a new pinion seal can seep a bit, especially if using modern synthetic gear oil).

[Jim Moore]

I think I'd be pulling that swingarm off and continuing to investigate the source of that leak.

[joeb]

I just went thru having it rebuilt. Considered doing it my self but I fjont have the proper tools and it seems it's real critical to get it shimmer properly. It was suggested that it could be taken off and sent to a rebuild shop,  ( that was recommended by others on this forum ) but I'd still have to remove it , ship it, and install it my self which seemed like a lot of hassle. Also I was pressed for time.

Took it to my local BMW dealer. They changed bearings on both ends for what I thought was a fair price, got it done in time for an upcoming  trip.

[Ladioviro]

On 12/27/2019 at 2:07 PM, dirtrider said:

 

Morning Ladioviro

 

That gear oil in the boot is USUALLY from a seeping pinion seal but it can also be from a leaking rear transmission seal.  

 

 

Thanks

 

Pinion seal is in the axle drive? 

 

Would the transmission seal leak down the inside of the swingarm or down the inside of the transmission shaft...? The swingarm itself is very clean 

[dirtrider]

32 minutes ago, Ladioviro said:

Thanks

 

Pinion seal is in the axle drive? 

 

Would the transmission seal leak down the inside of the swingarm or down the inside of the transmission shaft...? The swingarm itself is very clean 

 

Morning Ladioviro

 

Yes, pinion seal is on the front of the final drive (where the drive shaft attaches).

 

If the transmission rear seal is leaking then it will leak down the inside of the swingarm housing, if that is clean then your pinion seal is probably seeping. 

 

A great number of the BMW 1100/1150 final drives have a little pinion seal seeping (especially if using synthetic gear oil) so even a new pinion seal might not completely stop the long term seeping.  

 

A dripping leak is bad news but a small seep that JUST leaves little gear oil in the rear boot is somewhat normal. 

 

[Ladioviro]

7 hours ago, dirtrider said:

 

 

 

A great number of the BMW 1100/1150 final drives have a little pinion seal seeping (especially if using synthetic gear oil) so even a new pinion seal might not completely stop the long term seeping.  

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks Dirtrider, I'll get it serviced so and keep an eye on it. Was the fact that it's black an indicator of anything do you reckon?  I only changed the oil about 400 miles before. 

 

Might be a good time to keep stripping and do a spline lube while it's being serviced? (paranoid about spline lube and transmission after watching a video here about it, no service history)

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, Ladioviro said:

 

 

Thanks Dirtrider, I'll get it serviced so and keep an eye on it. Was the fact that it's black an indicator of anything do you reckon?  I only changed the oil about 400 miles before. 

 

Might be a good time to keep stripping and do a spline lube while it's being serviced? (paranoid about spline lube and transmission after watching a video here about it, no service history)

 

Evening   Ladioviro

 

Gear oil color has no real meaning on BMW final drive life or longevity. Some gear oil's have a lot of ant-wear additives that turn black pretty darn quickly.

 

You need to run the removed gear oil though a coffee filter (takes forever) or through a paper towel (takes less time)  then see what is caught in the filtering process. Anything shiny or sharp to the feel is bad news. 

 

The BIG failure point in the BMW 1100/1150 final drive is the large crown bearing, when the bearing ball separator fails then all the balls end up in one place, then the bearing quickly  totally fails. 

 

Spline lube is pretty useless as far as adding much spline life, if you have a spline alignment issue then lubing the splines will not add many miles to spline life & can even shorten the remaining spline life if the clutch disk to transmission spline clocking is not re-installed in the exact same pre-disassembly clocking (very difficult to see in there or to match them back up correctly).

 

If you have an 1100 5 speed then no valid  spline  worries (very/very/very few 5 speed spline failures),  & if you have an 1150 6 speed then remove the starter & simply do a clutch disk rotational test. (see link below).

 

If you have very little rotational movement then no need to disassemble & lube & if you have a lot of rotational movement then take it apart &  repair the alignment problem as adding lube will not help anything to prolong spline life as the wearing (constantly working)  splines will wipe the lube out in very short order.

 

My recommendation on spline lube is to  use the very same spline lube mileage interval as recommended on  the manual transmission vehicle that you, or someone in your family, or a friend is driving. 

 

https://www.bmwsporttouring.com/topic/94581-2002-r1150rt-clutch-replacement/

 

 

 

 

[Ladioviro]

9 hours ago, dirtrider said:

 

 

 

https://www.bmwsporttouring.com/topic/94581-2002-r1150rt-clutch-replacement/

 

 

 

 

Thanks Dirtrider, (do you get paid for this? you should)

 

Great link, must watch more of his videos, fair play for putting them up. Will pull that starter today. 

 

Back to the thread, does anyone know of somewhere I could send the axle drive for a rebuild in Ireland? Or would you trust your local guy? My guy is pretty solid when you can pin him down, but a recommendation is always good

[dirtrider]

4 hours ago, Ladioviro said:

Back to the thread, does anyone know of somewhere I could send the axle drive for a rebuild in Ireland? Or would you trust your local guy? My guy is pretty solid when you can pin him down, but a recommendation is always good

 

Morning Ladioviro

 

I can't help you with anyplace to send your final drive to in Ireland. There are are a couple of places in the U.S. with a good reputation but the shipping would be pretty high from, then back to, Ireland. 

 

As far as trusting a local shop?-- That depends, as it takes special tools & special knowledge to PROPERLY overhaul a BMW final drive. 

 

You need to find a shop that has the proper tools, long standing working  knowledge,  as well as the experience to properly go through your final  drive PROPERLY.   

 

If you can't find an experienced shop with the proper tools then you might as well do the work yourself.

 

Just beware of shops that tell you that they can handle the job but don't have  long standing experience as those are the shops that usually just throw in a new bearing & seal but don't measure or  re-shim properly. 

 

Just about any shop can toss in a new bearing & seal but few shops do the measuring & setup properly.  

 

Maybe Andy knows of a good place closer to your area. 

[Ladioviro]

I was going to drop it in tomorrow and decided to helpfully take off the brake disc. First bolt came out fine, even with threadlock, second bolt was a bit stuck so i heated it up and had an air impact-wrench at the ready. Unfortunately I had left the star-bit on from when I was seeing could I get at the disc from the other side and I tore up the hex-bolt completely....

 

What are my options now? Try a rotary tool and cut a groove for a flathead screwdriver? I hadn't ruled out a 2nd-hand axle-drive anyway...

 

IDIOT MOVE 

[dirtrider]

19 minutes ago, Ladioviro said:

I was going to drop it in tomorrow and decided to helpfully take off the brake disc. First bolt came out fine, even with threadlock, second bolt was a bit stuck so i heated it up and had an air impact-wrench at the ready. Unfortunately I had left the star-bit on from when I was seeing could I get at the disc from the other side and I tore up the hex-bolt completely....

 

What are my options now? Try a rotary tool and cut a groove for a flathead screwdriver? I hadn't ruled out a 2nd-hand axle-drive anyway...

 

IDIOT MOVE 

 

 

Evening   Ladioviro

 

That happens to most sooner or later as those bolts can become really stuck. 

 

Usually a simple process to remove, just drill a small hole about .5mm (one half mm) deep in the bolt head about half way between the inner hex & the outer edge of the stuck bolt. OR, just put a nice deep divot in that same spot using a sharp center punch straight up. 

 

Then heat the bolt head.

 

Then use a center punch at about a 45° angle in that shallow hole then drive the bolt head in the removal direction.

 

They usually come loose with a few good hits. 

 

 

[Ladioviro]

5 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

 

 

 

Usually a simple process to remove, just drill a small hole about .5mm (one half mm) deep in the bolt head about half way between the inner hex & the outer edge of the stuck bolt. OR, just put a nice deep divot in that same spot using a sharp center punch straight up. 

 

Then heat the bolt head.

 

Then use a center punch at about a 45° angle in that shallow hole then drive the bolt head in the removal direction.

 

 

 

 

Hmmm...will try that, thanks. Is there a tip for keeping it from rotating? The disc, not the bolt

[dirtrider]

31 minutes ago, Ladioviro said:

Hmmm...will try that, thanks. Is there a tip for keeping it from rotating? The disc, not the bolt

Evening   Ladioviro

 

It shouldn't rotate much as hammer strikes are faster then the disk can move very far.  

 

But if you drill the little hole so that your punch is driving the hole towards the center of the axle then there won't be very much disk rotating force when you strike the punch.

 

You want a very shallow hole so you don't drill through the bolt head taper into the rotor (just enough for the punch tip to bite into).  

 

 

[Ladioviro]

Gonna try this now, excited. 

[Ladioviro]

It worked! You're a hero. Thanks for the tip. 

 

I tried to open it up to see what's going on inside, is there a knack to it?

 

Took out those 8 hex-bolts thinking it'd pop open

 

nothing, 

 

gently tapped with a rubber mallet

 

nothing

[dirtrider]

29 minutes ago, Ladioviro said:

It worked! You're a hero. Thanks for the tip. 

 

I tried to open it up to see what's going on inside, is there a knack to it?

 

Took out those 8 hex-bolts thinking it'd pop open

 

nothing, 

 

gently tapped with a rubber mallet

 

nothing

 

 

Evening Bill

 

The cover should come off with ring gear & crown bearing still attached to it. There is an "O" ring around the cover (inside the drive case) so they can sometimes be tight coming out.

 

First, remove the wheel speed sensor so you don't damage that. 

 

I usually use a stick of hardwood & regular machinists hammer to get the cover off. If it is real stubborn then heat the final drive case around the cover area as that sometimes softens the "O" ring.  Don't drive or beat on the soft alloy case.

 

Once the cover is off you can remove the ring gear/spool/crown bearing by heating the cover to expand it on the crown bearing then the cover will pull or tap off of the big bearing.  (don't lose the  shim or shims)

 

To put it back together just heat the cover & it should drop on the bearing (be sure it fully seats)

[Ladioviro]

9 hours ago, dirtrider said:

 

 

 

First, remove the wheel speed sensor so you don't damage that. 

 

 

None of that fancy stuff round here DR. 

 

Will try heating it up later, and persuade it out, thanks. I'll post some pictures of the gory innards and maybe put up a video of the grinding I'm hearing in case anyone comes up against that in the future

[Ladioviro]

On 12/30/2019 at 10:11 PM, dirtrider said:

 

I usually use a stick of hardwood & regular machinists hammer to get the cover off. 

 

This work, thanks Dirtrider

 

I have it open now and can hear the grinding under the crown bearing (this is the large spiraled-bevel gear? ), I presume this isn't natural, if someone could take a listen here?:

 

https://imgur.com/gallery/nUl5Fg2

 

I noticed on the drain plug there's lots of extra fine metal gunk gathering and on some of the gear teeth also, so I presume that's the trouble. I don't think I'll take it apart and further as I don't have the means or knowledge to repair it properly so I'll just drop it in the the local I reckon. 

[dirtrider]

56 minutes ago, Ladioviro said:

 

This work, thanks Dirtrider

 

I have it open now and can hear the grinding under the crown bearing (this is the large spiraled-bevel gear? ), I presume this isn't natural, if someone could take a listen here?:

 

https://imgur.com/gallery/nUl5Fg2

 

I noticed on the drain plug there's lots of extra fine metal gunk gathering and on some of the gear teeth also, so I presume that's the trouble. I don't think I'll take it apart and further as I don't have the means or knowledge to repair it properly so I'll just drop it in the the local I reckon. 

 

 

 

Morning Bill 

 

I have junk speakers on my computer here but even with the lack of fidelity that doesn't sound good.

 

On the "gunk" on the magnet, that is somewhat normal as it is usually just a combination of gear oil additives mixed with fine wear particles from the ring to pinion helical wiping.

 

What you need to do is scrape that junk off the magnet then run it between your thumb & fore finger. If it feels smooth then that doesn't usually point to a problem, if it feels gritty, or especially if it feels sharp,  THEN you DO have a problem (usually a crown bearing failure).

 

But with that grinding noise it sounds like you DO have a problem & should have it repaired.

 

Just be sure that whoever does the repair knows how to properly shim the crown bearing.    

 

Ask the repair shop HOW they are going to set the bearing preload up???? Have them be SPECIFIC (ask LOTS of questions) , if they are not a BMW dealer then they probably don't have the proper tools & fixturing to set the preload correctly.

 

If they have done a few BMW final drives before & have built some homemade, or shop made, tooling, or have a viable procedure,  then  it CAN  be done with non BMW fixturing. (ask LOTS of questions to have them convince you that they 'can' properly shim that crown bearing preload).

 

If they seem like they haven't a clue on how to PROPERLY shim the bearing preload than find another shop. (or might as well do it yourself)

 

Don't allow them to offer you a standard "don't worry it has a warranty period" , as even a monkey can install crown bearing to last a short normal warranty period.  Poorly shimmed crown bearings don't usually re-fail until after most (normal) warranty periods expire. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dirtrider]

More__

 

If you want to take it apart farther just set the cover edges on a some blocks of wood, or on something non-damaging. Set the cover on the blocks  with ring gear  facing down & about 50-75mm from the bench top (or floor). 

 

Then place a few folded rags, old towels, or soft wood under the lower bearing (so when the spool & ring gear drop out the lower bearing falls on something soft).

 

Then use a heat gun (or maybe even try a high output hair drier) to heat the cover around the large bearing. 

 

Once hot then  try  hitting the top of the spool (where the brake rotor was mounted), if it is hot enough the spool including ring gear & large bearing  will usually just drop right out with a few hits with a large rubber mallet, or block of wood, & regular hammer.

 

You will probably need a gear puller to pull the large bearing off  the spool (sometimes you can heat the bearing &  get them off).

 

Even if you can't remove the bearing you can clean the inner part of bearing, then using a good strong light, usually see any pitting or race/ball damage. Also look closely at the ball separator as that is usually the place that the bearing starts to come apart.

[Ladioviro]

I got a quote today of €1200 euro

 

??

 

My bike cost €1500, for reference.

 

They said they have to replace every seal and bearing because they all get damaged during disassembly. Other places said they'd want the whole bike to guarantee their warranty of service. 

 

My local guy was closed so I'll talk to him about it in the morning. 

 

Seems crazy to me, maybe that's the going rate though

[dirtrider]

34 minutes ago, Ladioviro said:

I got a quote today of €1200 euro

 

??

 

My bike cost €1500, for reference.

 

They said they have to replace every seal and bearing because they all get damaged during disassembly. Other places said they'd want the whole bike to guarantee their warranty of service. 

 

My local guy was closed so I'll talk to him about it in the morning. 

 

Seems crazy to me, maybe that's the going rate though

 

Evening Bill

 

That's crazy, that is well over 1300.00 US dollars. 

 

Sounds like they are afraid of working on that drive so trying to chase you away. 

 

You might check on shipping to & from the US as it would probably be cheaper to send it here even with the shipping. 

 

Or just bite the bullet & do it yourself. 

[Ladioviro]

I might do, at least I'd learn something, maybe have some 'fun' along the way. I'll see what the local says first anyway

 

Are there any videos or threads detailing it that you know of? 

[AndyS]

Where are you based.

I had mine rebuilt in Spain for around 400 Euro's 2 years ago.

Have you considered a secondhand one form the likes of Motorworks / James Sherlock?

As to the need to replace all the gears and seals, that is doubtful.

Indeed, they would need to dismantle, clean, inspect, lube, and test but most often it is just that large crownwheel bearing that has died.

So that bearing, plus the main housing O ring, plus maybe a shim or 2.

I can see no reason for the cost to be anywhere near that much.

There are video's online, but as has been mentioned above. The ability to measure and measure accurately is critical for the longterm sucess of these Final Drive units. 'Close enough' isn't close enough!

[Jim Moore]

How many miles on the bike?

[dirtrider]

5 hours ago, Ladioviro said:

I might do, at least I'd learn something, maybe have some 'fun' along the way. I'll see what the local says first anyway

 

Are there any videos or threads detailing it that you know of? 

 

Morning Bill

 

There a number of final drive videos on-line with just as much bad information as good information. They can give you some idea on how to get it apart & back together but no way that I personally know is fool-proof as there is still a lot common sense in the set-up if you don't have the BMW tooling & fixturing.  

 

The crown bearing area is not bad with a few different ways to do the shimming measurements, it's the pinion seal that takes some more robust fixturing & special homemade sockets with good working knowledge. 

 

You seem to have caught your problem early enough to not have a lot of crown bearing crud in the other bearings so it is very doubtful that any other bearings are damaged. 

 

If the smaller (off-side) tapered spool bearing still looks good (no roller damage or race damage) then your pinion bearings probably look the same. 

 

If you have some basic machinist tools (precision caliper & micrometers) with some working knowledge on using those tools then the final drive is not that intimidating.

 

When it comes to the pinion area you will need either a good high power impact wrench, OR,  a good solid fixture to hold the drive tightly while you remove & retorque the large castle nut. 

 

If your drive is a fighter you will also need a decent high temperature heat gun. 

 

If you haven't done similar before & your pinion seal, or pinion area seep (might not be the actual pinion seal seeping) is only a slight seep then my suggestion is to only do the crown bearing & not mess with the pinion seep.  (even with a new pinion seal you could still end up with a slight seep in that area)

 

Then switch to conventional gear oil in the final drive (if your bike now has synthetic gear oil in the final drive just a switch to conventional gear oil could slow or stop the pinion  seep).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ladioviro]

4 hours ago, AndyS said:

Where are you based.

I had mine rebuilt in Spain for around 400 Euro's 2 years ago.

Have you considered a secondhand one form the likes of Motorworks / James Sherlock?

 

I am in Ireland, where did it for you in Spain? 

 

I had considered 2nd hand, why not, just didn't know where to get one, nowhere here seems to be breaking them

[Ladioviro]

1 hour ago, Jim Moore said:

How many miles on the bike?

 

62,000

[Ladioviro]

1 hour ago, dirtrider said:

 

Morning Bill

 

There a number of final drive videos on-line with just as much bad information as good information.

 

 

I'll definitely research it a bit and see what's needed, thanks. 

 

Pinion does seem ok, i could live with a little seep given the age and condition of the bike anyway, plus the gaiter is catching it. 

[Michaelr11]

Ladioviro, I just recently did this repair.  You'll need the big bearing, oil seal, o-ring, two new rotor screws and the two o-rings that seal the ABS speed sensor.

 

I recognize that DR does not like what I'm going to say next.  If you got 62,000 miles on the bearing the first time, chances are very good that you will get about 60-70,000 miles on the bearing if you use the shims as they are now.  My original big bearing started to fail - metal shavings - at a little over 90,000 miles.  I left the shims alone. The big bearing failed again - just some shavings - at just about 200,000 miles.  It's not a terrible repair job.  No doubt about it, the proper way to do this repair is to measure the play and set the preload with the right shims.

[AndyS]

1 hour ago, Ladioviro said:

I am in Ireland, where did it for you in Spain? 

 

I had considered 2nd hand, why not, just didn't know where to get one, nowhere here seems to be breaking them

In Spain I was down at Cartagena.

 

As I say. My 'go-to' used parts suppliers are: Motorworks ( https://www.motorworks.co.uk/vlive/AboutUs/index.php )

 

https://www.motorworks.co.uk/vlive/Shop/Parts.php?T=5&NU=10&M=30&Ct=EA&SbCt=BA_10_30_EA_10

 

https://www.motorworks.co.uk/vlive/Shop/Parts.php?T=6&Q=R1100RT final drive&search=SEARCH&spPage=2

https://www.motorworks.co.uk/vlive/Shop/Parts.php?T=5&NU=15&M=30&Ct=EA&SbCt=BA_15_30_EA_50

 

and James Sherlock (  https://www.james-sherlock.co.uk/  )

[Jim Moore]

6 hours ago, Ladioviro said:

 

62,000

It's likely that your final drive was incorrectly shimmed at the factory. The bad ones normally fail around 50K miles. Like Michael said, if you put it back together with the same shims you'll probably get another 50K-60K miles out of it.

[Ladioviro]

5 hours ago, AndyS said:

In Spain I was down at Cartagena.

 

As I say. My 'go-to' used parts suppliers are: Motorworks ( https://www.motorworks.co.uk/vlive/AboutUs/index.php )

 

https://www.motorworks.co.uk/vlive/Shop/Parts.php?T=5&NU=10&M=30&Ct=EA&SbCt=BA_10_30_EA_10

 

https://www.motorworks.co.uk/vlive/Shop/Parts.php?T=6&Q=R1100RT final drive&search=SEARCH&spPage=2

https://www.motorworks.co.uk/vlive/Shop/Parts.php?T=5&NU=15&M=30&Ct=EA&SbCt=BA_15_30_EA_50

 

and James Sherlock (  https://www.james-sherlock.co.uk/  )

James sherlock looks good, I think a whole drive is overkill, when I could get a bearing and seals and try sort it out?

 

Are you in Ireland? Or is UK just the best you've found in EU? 

[Ladioviro]

57 minutes ago, Jim Moore said:

It's likely that your final drive was incorrectly shimmed at the factory. The bad ones normally fail around 50K miles. Like Michael said, if you put it back together with the same shims you'll probably get another 50K-60K miles out of it.

 

I'd be happy with that result

 

[Ladioviro]

So I watched this video :

 

 

Not sure what the consensus is on it, but from what I gleaned, I can just replace the crown bearing with the shims that were in it, along with the output seal and the O-ring, he even reckoned the tapered bearing would be ok without replacing. 

 

Thoughts? Should I buy some shims anyway? 

 

I have no bearing puller, can these be fashioned easy enough? Must research it. 

 

I found the bearing, O-ring and seal for €100 so that wouldn't be too bad. Won't pull the trigger on anything yet

 

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, Ladioviro said:

 

Not sure what the consensus is on it, but from what I gleaned, I can just replace the crown bearing with the shims that were in it, along with the output seal and the O-ring, he even reckoned the tapered bearing would be ok without replacing.  
  
Thoughts? Should I buy some shims anyway?  
  
I have no bearing puller, can these be fashioned easy enough? Must research it.  
  
I found the bearing, O-ring and seal for €100 so that wouldn't be too bad. Won't pull the trigger on anything yet 

 

 

Evening Bill 

 

It might work OK but then again it could fail the new bearing in a few thousand miles, you just don't know without measuring the shim & preload  requirement.

 

There were 4 different crown bearings used in those 1100 final drives over the years so (IF) your original bearing was shimmed to the middle of the specification, & (IF) your new replacement  bearing is the exact same thickness as the old bearing, & (IF) it has the same inner race to outer race offset as the old bearing, & (IF) has the same "C" rating as the old bearing, & (IF) the R/H tapered bearing on the other side hasn't  worn a little changing the spool preload,  then in theory it should be OK as it should end up someplace within the preload specification that it was originally built with. (But what if one or more of those match-up's is not the same?)  

 

If all above isn't the same (or all added together are not within a few thousandths of the old preload ) then you can get another bearing failure.

 

If you don't catch the bearing failure in time then it can take out the other bearings (THEN) it gets expensive. 

 

It just might work, or it just might fail in a few thousand miles, you just don't know unless you check & verify the shimming. 

 

Depending on (IF) you decide to check/verify the preload & if/how you want to check the preload then you might need to buy a few shims to allow both  preload adjustment & to verify correct preload is properly figured.  

 

In any case you might be able to  work that bearing off with some heat & prying, or borrow a gear/bearing puller, or even make one from bent steel straps & threaded rod & nuts.  If the bearing is a fighter & on real tight then it will be a problem for you to remove,  if it isn't on too awful tight then you can probably get it off with heat & a couple of pry bars.

 

Get the spool & ring gear out of the cover first (before making any decisions)  if it looks like the bearing outer race has been spinning in the cover then you WILL have to measure & re-shim unless you are a true gambler. 

 

 

 

 

[Ladioviro]

18 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

 

Evening Bill 

 

It might work OK but then again it could fail the new bearing in a few thousand miles, you juts don't know without measuring the shim requirement.

 

 

 

In any case you might be able to  work that bearing off with some heat & prying, or borrow a gear/bearing puller, or even make one from bent steel straps.  

 

 

Who's Bill? 

 

I'll try get it off and look further into it, either source a puller or pry. 

 

I went out for a drive once after forgetting to torque down the wheel nuts (i know, i know), I'd say that was the start of my troubles with the crown. 

 

Where I can I find out how to verify the shimming? 

[dirtrider]

2 minutes ago, Ladioviro said:

Who's Bill? 

 

I'll try get it off and look further into it, either source a puller or pry. 

 

I went out for a drive once after forgetting to torque down the wheel nuts (i know, i know), I'd say that was the start of my troubles with the crown. 

 

Where I can I find out how to verify the shimming? 

 

Evening  Ladioviro

Sorry, I somehow got you confused with someone else that I was working with, that sometime happens when the threads get long  & I don't go back up far enough to verify the OP (won't happen again).  

 

A loose wheel should have had no effect on bearing life. It's way outside the bearing area. 

 

As far as the shimming info goes, there are a number of different ways posted on line  (some better than others) so you  need to sniff around on-line then find a method that fits your tool access & measuring instrument collection. 

 

If you have access to a precision micrometer then the crushed soft solder method seems to be as good as any.  
 

Over the years I have tried a number of different methods & none have totally impressed me  but most are better than just using the original shim. 

 

Personally I set the drive up on my granite block then use precision height gauges to measure/set the preload as that is about as accurate as you can get (as long as the setup is  precise & level)  

 

 

[Ladioviro]

On 1/3/2020 at 11:33 PM, dirtrider said:

 

Sorry, I somehow got you confused with someone else that I was working with, 

No worries, thought it was just a nickname for me. 

If you have access to a precision micrometer then the crushed soft solder method seems to be as good as any.  
No meter, and while I can find info on the solder method for other bikes and systems, I can't get one for the R1100, so I'm not too happy going for it. 

Personally I set the drive up on my granite block

Is a granite just a flat and level surface to work off? 

 

I'm considering getting a 2nd hand one, there's some reputable sellers in Germany offering them up for around €160 including postage. Might just save the time and effort and risk of messing it up myself also. 

 

Still waiting for monday to come and get advice from the local   

 

[catskill]

To use the Solder Method, you will need the following items:

• 1mm thick solder
• Digital micrometer with 0.0001" (0.001mm) accuracy. About $50 for an inexpensive one.
• Heat gun (or you can use an oven at 200F)
• 2-arm or 3-arm puller (about $25)

1. Use the puller to pull the old bearing off. You may have to grind down the arms to fit under the bearing.

2. Heat the bearing up some. Then drop it onto the crown gear hub. If it is hot enough, it should drop to the bottom instantly.

3. Let the bearing cool down to room temperature.

4. Next cut small pieces of solder and place it in a number of places.

5. Put the cover on and torque down the bolts to 35 Nm.

6. Remove the cover and carefully remove the squished solder pieces.

7. CAREFULLY measure each solder piece with the micrometer (write down the values of EACH solder piece). Be careful not to squish the solder more.

8. Disregard any values that are out of a reasonable range.

9. Calculate the Average Thickness of all the pieces. That value will give you the amount of play between the bearing and the cover. Lets say the average is 0.35mm.

10. Now add the pre-load value (Low=0.05mm and High=0.1mm (0.00197...0.03937in)) to your Average Thickness value (0.35mm) in step #9.

11. Lets say that your Average Thickness value was 0.35mm. Your range should be: 0.40 to 0.45mm after adding the low and high Pre-Load to it.

12. You need to buy a shim to fall into that range. In this case you would need to order a 0.40mm shim (about $20).

13. Put the correct shim in and torque down the cover to 35 Nm.

 

The whole process should take less then an hour. You can also find some more limited information in the BMW manual on page 33.20. The BMW manual uses a different method with BMW tool #332601 (No longer available).

[dirtrider]

Afternoon Ladioviro

 

If you have access to a precision micrometer then the crushed soft solder method seems to be as good as any.  
No meter, and while I can find info on the solder method for other bikes and systems, I can't get one for the R1100, so I'm not too happy going for it.-- Not that difficult,  Catskill pretty well covered it, he left  a couple of steps out but he covered the basics of the process. 

 

Personally I set the drive up on my granite block

Is a granite just a flat and level surface to work off? -- Yes, a very precision heavy level surface so no matter where the height gauge is placed it is very accurate to the work at both height & angle. 

 

I'm considering getting a 2nd hand one, there's some reputable sellers in Germany offering them up for around €160 including postage. Might just save the time and effort and risk of messing it up myself also. -- That would be a good deal if the used drive is in good shape with good bearings (do verify that it is the same gear ratio, ratio is next to the vent on top, see picture below). Problem is, there is no good way to verify the condition inside the new drive until you ride it for a while or take it apart.  

 

Still waiting for Monday to come and get advice from the local--  Let us know how that turns out. 

 

[Ladioviro]

I smacked the gear out of the housing today, wasn't really as chewed up as i thought it would be. Feels less grindy too...will put up a pic tomorrow. 

[catskill]

I have a R1100RT. Solder worked fine on it. Was as accurate as the #332601 BMW plate with a 0.0001" depth gauge.

 

Using a flat granite block with a dial indicator & base is excellent also.

 

 

[Ladioviro]

Update time. 

 

I dropped my axle drive into my local mechanic on february 6th. He assured me that shimming it was no problem and he'd take a look at it and give me a call yadda yadda yadda. 

 

Last week I called in and he said he hadn't even looked at it and he'd call me that evening. Didn't hear anything. 

 

Called in the next day. Nothing. 'I'll call you'. 

 

Covid-19. Closed for 2 weeks. 

 

This is one guy in a city where there is only one motorcycle mechanic, and he is a grumpy f**k. He takes on work but then just picks and chooses what he wants to do based on his mood. 

 

What can I do though? It'll have been more than 2 months in with him by the time he's open again. No other option where I am. 

[Ladioviro]

Finally got my axle drive back, almost 6 months waiting, covid aside

 

Looking forward to getting it on and up and running

 

[Tush]

That’s a long wait to be sure.  
 

cheers

Tush