Oil Filters evaluation

[Lowndes]

This is an interesting piece by Russ W. Knize.  He was curious about the internals of different brands of oil filters so he purchased 20 different brands of filters and standardized on a filter for a Ford 5.0L V8 engine, a popular size. 

 

Of particular interest are his findings on who actually makes the filters sold by different brands, AND, the quality of construction of the various components inside.  In particular, it explains some possible causes why Fram filters don't have a good reputation when used on BMW motorcycle engines

 

 

https://www.austincc.edu/wkibbe/oilfilterstudy.htm

[wbw6cos]

Lots of info to digest.

 

So, would this fall in the same category as an oil thread?  (Asking for a friend)

 

 

[AZgman]

This study has aged. Specs and manufacturing locations have changed since then. I would not use this as my sole means to make a filter choice. 

[dirtrider]

34 minutes ago, Lowndes said:

This is an interesting piece by Russ W. Knize.  He was curious about the internals of different brands of oil filters so he purchased 20 different brands of filters and standardized on a filter for a Ford 5.0L V8 engine, a popular size. 

 

Of particular interest are his findings on who actually makes the filters sold by different brands, AND, the quality of construction of the various components inside.  In particular, it explains some possible causes why Fram filters don't have a good reputation when used on BMW motorcycle engines

 

 

https://www.austincc.edu/wkibbe/oilfilterstudy.htm

 

Morning Lowndes

 

Unfortunately this was tested & published almost 20 years ago so a lot has changed since then. Assembly procedures could be much different in todays world, materials could be different, country source of materials could be different, oil's have changed significantly  in this time frame  so filter media might have been updated.

 

This was worth reading at the time & we had many discussions on it but  I'm not sure how accurate it is today. 

[Lowndes]

Thanks, DR.  I looked for any dates and the earliest I found was 2017 but that was a reference to this piece.

 

Edit: found it - Copyright © 1996-2003.  Almost 24 years old.  I should have looked further.  I don't guess there's any way to delete it

Edited October 27, 2019 by Lowndes
More info

[dirtrider]

7 minutes ago, Lowndes said:

Thanks, DR.  I looked for any dates and the earliest I found was 2017 but that was a reference to this piece.

 

 

 

Morning Lowndes

 

I remember this article from years ago (we discussed it heavily back then) , if you scroll down to the very bottom of the article there is the copyright info. I think it was originally published back in 1996 then updated a few times until about 2003.  

 

 

[Bud]

I have been a member here for many years and can not remember one thread where a FRAM filter was documented as the cause of engine damage or destruction.

 

The same study has been posted thousand of times on MC forums.

 

It's a variation on the oil thread. Lots of opinions, little fact. How good is good enough for a filter? If you are changing oil every 6K or less IMO any filter will do. If you run synthetic oil and want longer oil change intervals, then a more expensive filter may or may not make a difference.

 

Some people change every 3,000 saying oil is cheaper than and engine. I ask if 3,000 is good, why not change at 1,500 miles which would be even better?

 

When my dad bought his 1953 Chevy he changed oil every 3,000. Why?  Because his dad did.

 

Years ago a member (Mitch???)sent off oil for analysis. IIRC The results showed at even 9,000 miles, regular dino oil was still good.

 

If I'm wrong, I stand corrected.

 

YMMV

 

[RandyShields]

Lots of videos out there of guys cutting open and analyzing the quality of the insides of oil filters, although the ones I have seen are all automotive filters.  Still, instructive to see what companies cut corners and which ones do not.

[Lowndes]

14 hours ago, Bud said:

I have been a member here for many years and can not remember one thread where a FRAM filter was documented as the cause of engine damage or destruction.

 

The same study has been posted thousand of times on MC forums.

 

It's a variation on the oil thread. Lots of opinions, little fact. How good is good enough for a filter? If you are changing oil every 6K or less IMO any filter will do. If you run synthetic oil and want longer oil change intervals, then a more expensive filter may or may not make a difference.

 

Some people change every 3,000 saying oil is cheaper than and engine. I ask if 3,000 is good, why not change at 1,500 miles which would be even better?

 

When my dad bought his 1953 Chevy he changed oil every 3,000. Why?  Because his dad did.

 

Years ago a member (Mitch???)sent off oil for analysis. IIRC The results showed at even 9,000 miles, regular dino oil was still good.

 

If I'm wrong, I stand corrected.

 

YMMV

 

Hey, Bud,

 

I did search for this study on this forum several different ways and came up empty and I wondered about it.  Does the search not work well going back past the big change??

 

I totally agree on the oil change interval.  I put 400K on a Ford Tarus with the correct weight of Walmart brand oil every 5K and the engine was still going strong when I gave it away.  I like 5K with dino and 10K with synthetic just because it's easier to keep up with.  All my autos have had 2-300K and no oil related issues.  Since '72 I've always added and maintained 1 qt extra (over full) with good results in all my auto engines. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Patallaire]

I was part of a study with SAAB changing the oil every 2000 miles, 1500 on the first change,  the found it to make a difference in engine wear.  When I bought my Lexus they told me they would see me in 10,000 miles for an oil change! I could not wrap my head around that, Synthetic or not, so I had it changed at 4800 after arguing with the service team that this is what I wanted, they tried to convince me it was unnecessary.  I will go every 5000 miles, which is a stretch for me.  On the bike I have gone 2- 3000 miles.  ON a big trip I may stretch it, with synthetic, to 5000 miles.  For me it is inexpensive insurance, in my mind. 

[Patallaire]

Quote

Since '72 I've always added and maintained 1 qt extra (over full) with good results in all my auto engines. 

 Doesn't the oil, if overfilled, bubble like a detergent, and burn itself off and make the remainder minimize its effectiveness because it thins itself out? 

[AZgman]

Overfilling an engine's rated oil capacity can cause "windage", explained in this article.

 

I am constantly baffled why many think they know more than the engineers who designed and tested things...

[taylor1]

Since this is kind of an oil filter thread, I was wondering of the wisdom on a reusable filter, or if anyone is running one.

I have been eyeing one up on fleabay from PC Racing. Though extremely pricey, it does seem to be of high quality.

Your thoughts ?

[Lowndes]

Well, Mr. AZgman,  I'm definitely not saying I'm smarter "than the engineers that designed" the engines, although I'm a civil engineer myself.  I do know what my actual experience is "testing" a variety of my engines with well over a million total miles.  

 

I'm constantly baffled by naysayers who have never tried it but think they are smarter.

[Lowndes]

15 minutes ago, taylor1 said:

Since this is kind of an oil filter thread, I was wondering of the wisdom on a reusable filter, or if anyone is running one.

I have been eyeing one up on fleabay from PC Racing. Though extremely pricey, it does seem to be of high quality.

Your thoughts ?

 

Taylor1,

 

I'd think "reusable" also means "cleanable".  Maybe on certain types of air filters, but the mess involved in really cleaning an oil filter would nix it for me.  Cans and cartridges are cheap enough to offset the cost of the cleaning fluids, time and any equipment necessary.

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, taylor1 said:

Since this is kind of an oil filter thread, I was wondering of the wisdom on a reusable filter, or if anyone is running one.

I have been eyeing one up on fleabay from PC Racing. Though extremely pricey, it does seem to be of high quality.

Your thoughts ?

 

Afternoon  taylor1

 

As long as that reusable is up to task, tested for the BMW usage requriremnet  then all that remains is the pain in A$$ to clean it (completely) at every oil change. 

 

The things that you need to be aware of is: does that reusable oil filter have the flow capacity to meet the BMW oil flow requirement when using cold 20w50 oil?  Does that reusable filter have the proper  by-pass valve pressure/flow rating to meet the BMW boxer needs?, does that reusable have enough filter media to maintain proper oil flow at high RPM's when the filter is part way through it's  mileage cycle.  

 

If it meets the  BMW requirements/ needs then it should work, if you can't ascertain that it DOES meet the BMW boxer requirements then it is a crap shoot on it protecting your engine.  

[Bud]

From the Time for a full blown scream fit oil thread

 

"I've had Blackstone analyses done on the R1100RT ('91) I owned, and on three Harleys. I've always used Mobil One regular, not their bogus "motorcycle" oil.

 

Random comments:

 

• About the BMW - based on a Blackstone report that said my oil was still in great shape at 7,000 miles, I ran the next load of oil for 9,000 miles (adding 1.5 qts along the way). That mileage was accumulated in both Seattle urban traffic and a 4,000 mile road trip. They told me the sample was still okay, but barely, so thereafter, I changed at 7k miles.
• Using the analyses to track metals in the oil, I could see that the wear-in on the engine was finally complete at around 30k miles.
• The pattern for wear-in on the 96 cubic inch engine (the latest iteration of the V-Twin) in my Harley is similar, but appears to be complete at around 25k.
• Blackstone's last analysis on the 96" mill reflects that oil should be good for at least 6k miles. That tracks with the case on the 107" S&S engine I had in my now-gone FXRT. The stock 80" engine in that bike used its oil up by around 4-5k miles.
• As someone said here, the primary purpose of analysis is not to see how long your oil can last, but to detect abnormal metal wear in the engine and sources of external contamination (water, fuel, antifreeze, dust) before they become a failure. Oil condition reports are a happy side effect that can allow you extend your intervals. That can make the price of the analyses a wash - in effect, the money saved on oil changes can be applied to the insurance of a look at what the engine is doing inside.
• Once analyses show that wear-in is complete and I have a "normal" baseline of contaminants, I switch to having them done with every other change.
• If extraordinary circumstances dictate prudence, I change my oil sooner regardless of what the last analysis said. F'rinstance, I just discovered that (never mind why) my air filter had been bypassing some unfiltered air since sometime after the last service interval when I had looked at it. So, I will change the oil now, well ahead of schedule.

 

So you can depend on service interval changes and hope that nothing is going wrong down there, or you can let the oil tell you that all is well - or not. I like to know.

 

Pilgrim"

 

If you want to see more threads search for "Blackstone".

 

Oil change intervals are like a religion. You are either a believer or not. Most people are not swayed by test data.

 

 

 

 

[elkroeger]

Where did I hear that story about a guy that bought a BMW and never changed the oil?  Or is that an urban legend?

[steve.foote]

Here are three oil filters I cut open back in 2004.  I haven't used a Fram product since.

 

 

 

Fram.

 

SuperTech from Wally World.

 

BMW OEM.

[Pappy35]

There are some things I won't go cheap or gimmicky on ("high flow" or "more power" are red flags), oil and oil filters are right at the top of the list. These images show why.