"New" R1100S - won't start, but that's OK because it won't stop either...

[szurszewski]

9 hours ago, dirtrider said:

 

 

Afternoon szurszewski

 

Try a local (GOOD) auto parts store, most should have a selection of pre-made brake lines with different end fittings. BMW flair is not all that unique so an auto parts store might have what you need pre made in a close length.

Thanks DR. The shop I was hoping to use is temporarily closed (lack of staff??), but I picked up some pipe, some fittings a loaner bender and a loaner flare kit. They didn’t have anything on the shelf that would fit, so I’ll see what I can do. A friend did recommend another shop not too far away that’s open tomorrow and makes custom lines. 

 

Oh - same friend checked on the BMW part for me while I was at work, and found it is only used on the 1100S; I called the dealer and, not surprisingly, they didn’t happen to have one. They did say there are two in the country though, so that’s an option. 

 

 

8 hours ago, 041100S said:

Hello Szurszewski,

 

Don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but if the battery in one of your last pictures is an Odyssey PC680 AGM you might want to consider upgrading the regulator to one that will put out 14.5 v so that the AGM is properly charged all the time. I have read in several posts where guys are doing this in the older BMW. I need to do it but my ABS is still working so I leave it on a charger (CTEK) when not riding. Try Euromotoelectrics.com for the regulator.

 

It was mentioned above, but thank you. I have had a number of PC680s in oilheads and a K bike with no issues, but I will look into it. 

[szurszewski]

I got the rest of the lines installed this am before work, and just have one caliper left to go through. Going to do that now and see about getting that rear line sorted. 

 

Then....I have a big box from beemer boneyard to go through. Eddy says he’ll help (he won’t). 

 

 

Oh - as a quick PS, this is a banjo bolt from one of the front calipers. You know, the circuit that was still working....

 

 

[szurszewski]

I now have front brakes. I failed totally at flaring the piece I got for the rear line, but I found a place locally that advertises making brake lines to order and I'm going to head over there shortly (as soon as they open...why isn't everyone open at 6am on Saturdays? sheesh).

 

I also got the pump related (not vent) internal tank lines replaced (the ones in there actually seemed pretty new - definitely not original - but since I already had it apart...), put in a new fuel filter, added quick disconnects for the external tank lines and got the tank back on the bike. Fired up nicely - really looking forward to maybe actually riding the dang thing today.

 

Oh, I put in a new air filter too, but this one was probably fine....

 

It's amazing what can find it's way into an air intake.

 

 

[Bill_Walker]

2 hours ago, szurszewski said:

Oh, I put in a new air filter too, but this one was probably fine...

It looks like it was ridden on the same kind of roads you recently rode your Ducati on!

[szurszewski]

1 hour ago, Bill_Walker said:

It looks like it was ridden on the same kind of roads you recently rode your Ducati on!

Zing!

 

(But really the grit and gravel on this bike looks more like drizzly commuting road grit than actual gravel - it's kind of impressive how much grit like that can accumulate from pavement-only driving in the PNW.)

 

I've got brakes  front and rear now - my to-do list is just left with regular maintenance now

 

 

Just one employee and no other customers at the hydraulics shop this morning; the guy said he usually worked at their other location and was having trouble finding stuff...like the prices for the fittings, so he just charged me a fee for the line (and maybe for the build service?). Ended up the same as the factory hard pipe, so not too bad for an "I want it now!" sort of thing. I'll probably swap in the BMW part the next time I flush the brakes.

 

 

[szurszewski]

It's alive!

 

Got it all back together - still need to change the transmission oil (don't have the right stub 14mm hex to clear the exhaust, but the engine and fd oil looked good when drained, so I doubt the transmission has been neglected) and plugs and check the valves and adjust the TBs. Took a tiny ride around the neighborhood - seems great. Front brake has more lever travel than I'd like, but once you get to the point of braking it works well. Rear brake seems great. 

 

Going to take it out and maybe get at least halfway through the gears later tonight, and if all is well take it for a spin down the coast tomorrow and Monday. 

 

I did notice a crack in the right header while I was cleaning. Can probably be welded, but also a good excuse to cruise ebay for a used aftermarket or something like that

 

Thanks for all the help everyone - it's much appreciated. 

 

I'll post some pics later.

josh

 

 

[szurszewski]

Bike is running well, maybe a little surge but otherwise very nice. Breaks work well as do the break lights....but no Speedo or odometer. 

 

I did pull the blue “abs” relay as suggested to eliminate one of the dash

lights. Does that need to be in place for the Speedo? I’ll probably try to put it back in tonight and see what happens. 

[dirtrider]

8 hours ago, szurszewski said:

Bike is running well, maybe a little surge but otherwise very nice. Breaks work well as do the break lights....but no Speedo or odometer. 

 

I did pull the blue “abs” relay as suggested to eliminate one of the dash

lights. Does that need to be in place for the Speedo? I’ll probably try to put it back in tonight and see what happens. 

 

Morning  szurszewski   

 

Is fuse #2 still in place & not blown? With the brake lights working then it is probably good though.

 

Is fuse #4 good? That powers up the dash part of the speedometer.

 

Does the  large red wire going into the ABS module have 12v on it?

 

The ABS relay only drives the ABS light, I don't think the ABS controller can tell it's missing but even if it could that shouldn't shut the speedometer off. But, try installing it anyways just to verify that isn't somehow causing your issue.

 

Is the yellow general light on? (no external relay on that one).

 

Otherwise  verify that both wheel speed sensors are working & plugged into the main harness (I think the speedometer runs off the rear wheel sensor but it might need both front & rear working to output the speed signal).

 

In most cases when the speedometer quits on the 1100S it's a wheel speed sensor issue.

 

 

[szurszewski]

4 hours ago, dirtrider said:

 

Morning  szurszewski   

 

Is fuse #2 still in place & not blown? With the brake lights working then it is probably good though.

 

Is fuse #4 good? That powers up the dash part of the speedometer.

 

Does the  large red wire going into the ABS module have 12v on it?

 

The ABS relay only drives the ABS light, I don't think the ABS controller can tell it's missing but even if it could that shouldn't shut the speedometer off. But, try installing it anyways just to verify that isn't somehow causing your issue.

 

Is the yellow general light on? (no external relay on that one).

 

Otherwise  verify that both wheel speed sensors are working & plugged into the main harness (I think the speedometer runs off the rear wheel sensor but it might need both front & rear working to output the speed signal).

 

In most cases when the speedometer quits on the 1100S it's a wheel speed sensor issue.

 

 

 

Good morning D.R. - thanks as always for the suggestions. I'm going to ride today/tomorrow and probably get stuck doing non bike things (or other bike things, actually) for a few days when I get back (probably have Qs on an F800GS next...), but this morning I:

 

Pulled fuse 2 - no change; brake lights still work

 

Pulled fuse 10 - gauge illumination goes out (looks like I need a new lower bulb on the speedo anyway as only the top is lit with fuse 10 in place)

 

I didn't disconnect either wheel sensor, but I did carefully cut and replace some zipties on each when I replaced the brake lines. 

 

When I get back/get time I'll check to make sure those are connected to the harness (a quick inspection makes it seem they are, UNLESS they were the two plugs that connected to the top of the large part of the ABS unit that has been removed (there was the large black connector which is attached to the part still on the bike, and there were two matching smaller connectors (four or fewer wires?) connected near the hydraulic lines on the top of the pump).

 

I don't know how to verify that the wheel speed sensors work, but I'll look into that.

 

I'll also check for voltage on the red wire to the controller.

 

In a quick search last night I found several posts on this issue specific to late S bikes (post 2002?) - all with no speedo/odo after ABS removal. I only had time to scan a few but those didn't seem to have clear solutions (lots of chatter from people wth earlier bikes saying what they did and other random stuff, but nothing helpful).

 

Thanks! I'll post more when I get a chance to check the above!

josh

 

 

[dirtrider]

21 minutes ago, szurszewski said:

 

Good morning D.R. - thanks as always for the suggestions. I'm going to ride today/tomorrow and probably get stuck doing non bike things (or other bike things, actually) for a few days when I get back (probably have Qs on an F800GS next...), but this morning I:

 

Pulled fuse 2 - no change; brake lights still work

 

Pulled fuse 10 - gauge illumination goes out (looks like I need a new lower bulb on the speedo anyway as only the top is lit with fuse 10 in place)

 

I didn't disconnect either wheel sensor, but I did carefully cut and replace some zipties on each when I replaced the brake lines. 

 

When I get back/get time I'll check to make sure those are connected to the harness (a quick inspection makes it seem they are, UNLESS they were the two plugs that connected to the top of the large part of the ABS unit that has been removed (there was the large black connector which is attached to the part still on the bike, and there were two matching smaller connectors (four or fewer wires?) connected near the hydraulic lines on the top of the pump).

 

I don't know how to verify that the wheel speed sensors work, but I'll look into that.

 

I'll also check for voltage on the red wire to the controller.

 

In a quick search last night I found several posts on this issue specific to late S bikes (post 2002?) - all with no speedo/odo after ABS removal. I only had time to scan a few but those didn't seem to have clear solutions (lots of chatter from people wth earlier bikes saying what they did and other random stuff, but nothing helpful).

 

Thanks! I'll post more when I get a chance to check the above!

josh

 

 

 

Morning  szurszewski

 

2 plugs on top were the fluid level sensors (they worked in series). You might try jumpering across both plugs just as a (lets see what happens). The actual braking part shouldn't effect speedometer operation as the speedometer should still work even with the ABS system in residual operation.

 

You can test the speed sensors with a small voltmeter set to low scale A/C voltage then spin the wheel & see a A/C voltage output. I have some voltage & resistance measurements someplace but  they are from an 1150RT bike with no speedometer output so I  can't say if they would be accurate on your bike's system.

 

Best way to test the wheel speed sensors is to see if both front & rear have about the same basic resistance & see if both front & rear make about the same A/C voltage for the same wheel spin speed. (if both ends are not the same then one end is not working correctly)

 

I can probably help you with the 800GS as I have one (we need the exact year though as there were changes).

 

Hope you don't need to do a valve adjustment as that is a BIG PAIN in the A$$ on the 800GS.  

[szurszewski]

Thanks again! I look forward to putting that information to use soon

 

The F800 was purchased by a German friend a month or so ago for a trip that is almost over - hopefully we’ll just be cleaning it up and changing fluids to prep for sale. I’ll post a new thread if we get stuck (because I don’t know anything about them!). 

 

 

[Lowndes]

Szurszewski,

 

"Oh - do you think that air filter needs replacing? Probably ok, right?"  Blow it with some HP air from the bottom side and see what comes out.  BUT....if you want to add some giddy-up to the old girl's gait put in a San Jose filter and an Induct.  It really helps the engine's asthma, especially mid and up revs.  I like it.

 

"...Those old school chopper guys got by fine with just a rear drum brake - this one front disc should be plenty..."  WHAT??

 

[szurszewski]

Well, it's been a busy week - we did get the F800 ready to sell and then quickly sold, so that was great. But some unexpected family things came up and I haven't had a chance to get back to the S EXCEPT to put the ABS relay back in. As suggested above, the only noticeable result was getting both flashing dash lights back on - still no speedo. I *might* have time tomorrow or Monday to dig deeper, but likely it will be next weekend before that happens. I will come back and update this when I know more. Thanks!

 

[szurszewski]

...and the busy week turned into a busy month, but I finally had time and space to dig into the bike. Short answer - speedo is working! ...and of course, D.R. was right

 

Long answer:

 

I could not get any A/C reading from the rear speed sensor, but I was pretty sure that was my lack of proficiency with a VM (tried two), so I figured I'd check the front sensor as well. The connector for that was under the tank, so off comes the (just filled) tank. Same results - no A/C reading on either the digital or analog voltmeters. Resistance appeared to be the same on both front and rear sensors...and the speedo was working before I messed with the brake system, so I assumed a sensor didn't coincidentally die just then... 

 

I unziptied my "condensed" ABS controller box thingamabob and unclipped the wiring connector ... and....

 

 

do you see it?

 

 

Well, since I didn't have a pin map for the connector I didn't know what that was for, but it seemed pretty likely that it was my problem...

 

I carefully bent it back to straight, plugged in the connector, unplugged it to see if I'd bent it again (nope!) and reconnected it. Gotta say, it was super fun putting all the bike's bits back together not knowing if I'd done anything worthwhile. Fortunately, as I already said - it did work. Very happy about that.

 

Thank you to D.R. and to all the other support and suggestions in the thread and behind the scenes. I'm planning to head to Torrey on Wednesday morning, and looking forward to actually having a working speedo and odo for the trip. ...next I'm going to try to figure out why my license plate light has gone out again, but for this trip my solution is to just not ride at night.

 

 

 

 

[szurszewski]

On 8/20/2019 at 6:17 PM, LBump said:

 

Sorry Josh, But I don't see the OEM feeler gauges.  It's not complete...

 

 

Good news! I was "finally, after much searching" find a set!

 

 

I was so excited, I started a thread all about them here:

 

[Oldrider51]

On 8/16/2019 at 2:34 PM, Lowndes said:

Hey, szurszewski,

 

You didn't buy that bike, at that price you stole it.  Good job.  Ride it that way.

I have a '99 R1100S with ABS (have been told is is the ABS II model).  The ABS is passive until a wheel slips and then does the pulse, as I understand it.  Never had it come on. Can't really say how or if it still works.  Everything else (brake lights, etc) works. 

 

I went the opposite way you did and bought a '00 K1200RS and it gets the most use now.  My bro rides the R11S mostly now as his airheads always seem to be down for some reason (??!!). 

 

Sounds like you are well on the way to getting the ABS resolved so here is my experience with the rest of it.  Not sure how much was corrected before your '04 was built.

 

The HES wiring on mine was the same as the RT (decomposing insulation under the sheath) and '04 was about the time BMW corrected that, I think, but Dirt Rider would know.  If it was not corrected on yours that might be your starting problem.

 

There is NO storage on the bike and a GIVI tank bag with the quick release works really well.  The side cases if you didn't get them are common to several models of that era and are on eBay.

 

An aftermarket seat is MUCH better.  

 

You mentioned possibly replacing the brake lines.  Weather you keep or delete the ABS, you SHOULD replace the OEM flexible lines with Spiegler or Galfer PTFE lines, along with the clutch lines (3).  The OEM lines begin to fail at about 15 years.  

 

While doing the clutch lines you might consider replacing the slave cyl (3 screws) and drilling a weep hole in the housing. That can be done ON the bike without removing exhaust, shift linkage, etc, but best done when the slave cyl is out.  My slave leaked and killed the clutch.  BIG prob.

 

The BEST and LEAST EXPENSIVE improvement to all around engine performance I made was an AFXied by NightRider.  

 

A Boxer Performance Induct along with a San Jose  Air Filter really improved the upper end breathing.  These bikes only put about 80 HP on the ground so you need all the help...and they have asthma not constipation.  I use the rev limiter as the shift point now.

 

The EV14 injectors sure helped the smoothness of the engine.  Quicker throttle response too it seems.

 

Can't tell from the pics but if it still has the OEM shocks they are over due.  Call Ted Porter and talk to him.  He has (or had three years back) a R11S and put Wilber units on it.  He set mine up at it transformed the bike.  It handles and rides SOOO much better.  WELL worth the $$$, imho.  The Michelin PR4'sdo very well on it, too.

 

If you are using an AGM battery (PC680, Westco, etc) you might want to replace the voltage reg with a 14.5v reg from EME to keep the battery fully charged.  The battery will last longer and the Motronic will like it better, too.

 

If the 44K on your bike is accurate and I'm sure it is, then you have most likely passed the clutch spline issue window (25-35K).  Good thing.

 

You'll wish you had the quick disconnects on the tank gas lines very quickly.  Also, you might want to replace the gas filter and internal flexible gas lines if that hasn't been covered in a service.

 

LED bulbs EVERYWHERE, Headlights, brake/tail, turns.  See and be seen.  EZPZ.

 

All this sounds like a lot and it is, but easily done in a garage, one step at a time.  If you need sources or details, pics, links to discussions, please let me know.

 

Congrats on the new ride!!

 

To Lowndes, 

Lowndes, you indicate that you changed the voltage regulator in your 1100S to the one from EME that puts out 14.5 V, do you know or have you checked the output after the bike has been ridden and is at operating temperature? I have seen others comment that their output but not with the voltage regulator drops when the engine is warm (hot). Also, did your bike have ABS and if so how hard was it to get the replacement unit installed? Thanks

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lowndes]

Hey, Szurszewski,

 

To ilucidate my earlier comment: "While doing the clutch lines you might consider replacing the slave cyl (3 screws) and drilling a weep hole in the housing. That can be done ON the bike without removing exhaust, shift linkage, etc, but best done when the slave cyl is out.  My slave leaked and killed the clutch.  BIG prob."

 

The reason for my clutch replacement on my '99 S back in '17 was because the clutch slave cylinder piston seal failed and dumped all the DOT4 that then traveled up the clutch rod hole into the clutch.  

 

Save yourself a BUNCH of potential trouble and drill a 1/8" dia weep hole in the bottom of the slave cyl housing on the rear of the tranny.  It works just like the weep hole on a water pump on your car.  It won't save the slave cyl but it will save your clutch.  BMW did NOT do it for some reason.  It can be done from the outside without removing anything, but you have to know where and how to do it.  See my raw pics here: https://goo.gl/photos/Aqdx8nEN6rjbZvw17

 

Actually, there are several ways to do it but the weep hole is to me the best. 

 

The throw-out bearing is very small and sits in the slave cyl piston.  The push rod (and throw-out bearing) ARE TURNING AT THE SAME SPEED AT ALL TIMES WHEN THE ENGINE IS TURNING,  NOT just when you grab the clutch handle.  If/when that little bearing fails it spins the slave cyl piston at engine speed and IT IS NOT MADE FOR THAT. The O-ring on the piston then fails very quickly, DOT4 goes up the push rod and the clutch starts slipping badly immediately.  The next step is to start removing parts from the bike at the license plate and stop when you get to the rear of the engine.  Big mess.

 

It's actually lots of fun.

 

Just something else to think about!!

[szurszewski]

Thank you - I considered but did not do this last summer. Now that I have a pair of Ss I’m probably going to swap the exhausts and that seems like the perfect time to get at the slave cylinder. Consider it added to my to-do list. 

[szurszewski]

Well, I'm a dumb ass and totally forgot to check on the slave cylinder while I was exhaust swapping! The "new" exhaust does sound great...

 

 

Fortunately thanks to COVID-19 I've got lots of time to tinker, so I'll get back in there and check the clutch slave.