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szurszewski

"New" R1100S - won't start, but that's OK because it won't stop either...

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szurszewski

Hello!

 

Useless backstory: I strayed last summer and, after 20 years of BMWs (mostly...) I bought a Ducati and sold the K-hack. Fast forward to a couple of weeks ago: I broke the Ducati. Oops. You can read a bit about it here on ADV if you like. Anyway. It's sort of fixed but then this popped up on CL and I bought it. 

 

1780750723_ScreenShot2019-08-15at2_32_44PM.thumb.png.1f12c67e689bc27d859b7e0082cd3850.png

 

So now I have a 2004 R1100S which is fantastic. BUT...currently it won't start and my understanding is that once I do get it to start it's not going to stop. I think I can handle the starting issue - it's been parked since March and the battery terminals are corroded and gross - but I'm going to need some help with the brakes. 

 

I have been reading a bunch, but this is my first servo braked BMW. The S bikes were a bit different on which years had which brakes compared to the rest of the boxers, but I'm fairly certain the 2004 S has the iABS (also called ABS III, I think). This is the one that Module Masters keeps saying they are *almost* ready to rebuild...for like more than a decade now I believe. 

 

What I'd like to do bypass the servo/ABS system and just have "regular" brakes. My reading so far leads me to believe this is possible, but most of the info is NOT S specific. I'd like to not destroy anything so that in the future, if I can source a replacement unit or get mine rebuilt, I could have the bike back in stock form.

 

I've got the bodywork off, the battery out and the gas tank almost off. I was told that the ABS unit was "leaking" but I can't see it well enough yet to make any assessment. I'll probably not get back to the bike until saturday morning. If any of you have any great wisdom to share, I'd love to hear it. 

 

Specifically I'm thinking I can just route brake lines from the masters at the rear and front brake levers to the calipers and have brakes. I don't know if I will still have brake lights though, and I also don't know - yet - what I need to do to keep the servos from trying to run when I brake. Do they activate because of pressure from the MCs or are they switched on eletronically? (Basically: If I disconnect the plumbing, will they keep running dry and burn out, or will they just rest quietly?)

 

I've had my eye out for an S for nearly ten years, but never sat on one until today (and not even then until after I'd paid for it and strapped it to the trailer!) - I'm really excited about this project I've started...and I hope I actually get to ride the thing someday!

 

thanks all!

josh

 

(PS - don't tell Laura; she and Jeremiah have been back east a couple of weeks and I want to see how long it takes her to notice the new bike in the garage...)

 

 

some pics, 'cause pics are cool -

 

Jeff - bought the bike new in Idaho - seemed a little sad to see it go!

IMG_8032.thumb.jpg.45f381e7568dec0760f5deee3b991d50.jpg

 

my tiny stable of broken bikes - at least I haven't broken the Plymouth (...yet...)

IMG_8040.thumb.jpg.6e5b30aba8be9723351a5ab52861e46b.jpg

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Indy Dave

Looks like you had a great time, enjoyed the ride tale at Adv Rider. Many of those places look quite familiar!

 

Module Master DID start rebuilding some servo's - I'm sure you've checked that already. Couldn't be that easy, right? I only mention it because I'd given up on the rebuild idea, as it seemed like a stalled project of theirs - and then they were rebuilding (some).

 

What's the update on the DuCaddy?

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SANTA

so how do you know that the brakes are junK?   I have the twin ugly sister to your 04 (mine is an 03) get a copy of the brake flush procedure which has been well documented on  bmwst (same as the one r1150rt etc) and do a complete brake flush.  its probably the one maintenance item ignored most often.

then if you have issues do the trouble shooting .

 

on the r1100s if the taillite bulb burns out, it lights the warning bulb but then powers the brake light at reduced output just so you know, could send an illiterate owner in circles...

 

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szurszewski

I have not actually called or emailed MM, but their site, in really big print, currently says DO NOT SEND US YOUR iABS unit now - we are not rebuilding them at this time. 

 

The ducati got me be home, but when I was cleaning up the weld to spay some primer (to keep it from rusting at least) I found that there is less of the break welded than I’d thought. It’s a full perimeter break of the tube, but maybe only 1/3 of that break was accessible to weld. I was going to ride it until it broke, but now I’m thinking that’s not a great plan. 

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lkraus

My understanding is that MM is making iABS repairs now, but have a backlog of work and have chosen not to update their site until they are caught up.  I've seen several posts on different forums from satisfied customers.

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szurszewski
3 hours ago, SANTA said:

so how do you know that the brakes are junK?   I have the twin ugly sister to your 04 (mine is an 03) get a copy of the brake flush procedure which has been well documented on  bmwst (same as the one r1150rt etc) and do a complete brake flush.  its probably the one maintenance item ignored most often.

then if you have issues do the trouble shooting .

 

on the r1100s if the taillite bulb burns out, it lights the warning bulb but then powers the brake light at reduced output just so you know, could send an illiterate owner in circles...

 

 

That is an excellent question - I don't really know much about the brakes other than the PO said they were "leaking at the ABS module up under the tank." He seemed like a forthright fellow but didn't strike me as a wrench turner and I didn't see any tools in his garage...so I'm assuming he took it to the shop and they told him that. Both tank bolts were just finger tight, which made me think the tank had been at least partially "off" recently. 

 

With the questionable battery in there, the fuel pump would cycle at key-on and the abs pumps would "whir" when either brake lever was pressed. The tail light actually seemed to DIM when then happened. I don't know what that means, but I have read that having even one of the filaments in the brake light out will cause a fault to show. My experience with the earlier ABS systems was also that even a marginal battery would cause ABS faults to appear. I have ordered a new battery (was surprised to find Autozone, if I went into the store but not online, could order me an Odyssey PC680 for $113 - it's supposed to be here Saturday, but I am suspicious...)  and I'll see if that makes any difference, and I'll also check the bulbs. 

 

I have a cart full of stuff to order from Beemer Boneyard for a full service. I don't have one of the fancy funnels, so I'll add that to the order and I'll plan to do a brake flush and see what comes of that. The front of the battery did have what looked like some corrosion crud on it (apart from the all the junk built up on the negative terminal) so that would point to maybe a leaky ABS unit. 

 

I'm slightly optimistic that maybe a failing battery and a bad bulb coupled with the corrosion from the battery terminal led to a false diagnosis of a dead ABS unit, but I don't want to get my hopes up. ;)

 

2 hours ago, lkraus said:

My understanding is that MM is making iABS repairs now, but have a backlog of work and have chosen not to update their site until they are caught up.  I've seen several posts on different forums from satisfied customers.

 

That's great to hear - I hadn't seen any of those positive reports yet :)

 

 

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szurszewski

PS to @SANTA

I have seen your bike and I don't think it's ugly at all - looks like it's had a good life to me. I'd actually been looking forward to asking you about it at Palmer Gulch last summer, but then you bailed on our campsite to sleep indoors - the indignity!

 

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RogerC60

I had a leaky ABS module on my '03 R1150RT:

  • After filling the rear wheel circuit reservoir it would be completely dry in about 3 weeks. Still had enough fluid in the system for the rear brake to work.
  • No leaks at any fittings.
  • No leaks along any solid or flexible lines.
  • No brake fluid leaking from the caliper onto the pads/rotor
  • Brake fluid all over the tray in which the ABS module rests

Physical examination of the module failed to reveal the location of the leak, so I decided to just remove the module.

I re-plumbed the brake lines so that the front lever and rear pedal master cylinders go directly to the corresponding calipers. I removed the electronics end from the ABS module, fashioned a cover for it to keep moisture out, and left it plugged into the bike; that keeps the brake light working. Pulled the ABS indicator relay from the fuse box to eliminate one of the annoying blinking lights. The other annoying blinking light took care of itself by burning out :-)

 

Been riding the bike this way for a few months and thousands of miles and have had zero problems, either mechanically or in stopping the bike.

 

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SANTA
3 hours ago, szurszewski said:

PS to @SANTA

I have seen your bike and I don't think it's ugly at all - looks like it's had a good life to me. I'd actually been looking forward to asking you about it at Palmer Gulch last summer, but then you bailed on our campsite to sleep indoors - the indignity!

 

not ugly  in the normal sense... but on the r1100s forum back in the day they were referred to as a donkey bike by some... and others would hang their blue max on the windscreen....  maybe next year at the "un", the sister can meet.

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dirtrider
8 hours ago, szurszewski said:

 

 

 

 

So now I have a 2004 R1100S which is fantastic. BUT...currently it won't start and my understanding is that once I do get it to start it's not going to stop. I think I can handle the starting issue - it's been parked since March and the battery terminals are corroded and gross - but I'm going to need some help with the brakes. 

 

 

 

What I'd like to do bypass the servo/ABS system and just have "regular" brakes. My reading so far leads me to believe this is possible, but most of the info is NOT S specific. I'd like to not destroy anything so that in the future, if I can source a replacement unit or get mine rebuilt, I could have the bike back in stock form.

 

 

 

Morning szurszewski

 

On the I-ABS  ABS braked 1100S bikes you can fairly easily bypass then  remove the ABS controller then use a homemade relay/harness &  brake line re-routes  to regain brake light & tail light function & standard braking (basically same as the 1150 bikes).

 

BUT!-- the big problem on the I-ABS 1100S bikes is that the speedometer on the ABS bike is electronically conditioned by the ABS controller so if you simply remove & by-pass the ABS controller you lose your speedometer function.

 

There IS a workaround for that but it involves taking the ABS controller apart then using the  ABS electronic box to condition & send the speedometer signal to the dash. This also involves fabricating a waterproof end cover for the exposed end on the ABS control box.

 

Personally, I think that  once you remove the 1100S ABS (power braking part) you will not want to ever go back to the wizzy braking system as the bike stops so nice & is easy to modulate with conventional braking (you just won't have ABS).  

 

You mention a possible leak at the ABS module-- Possibly just a loose line attachment (not very common) it is also possible that someone cracked the ABS module valve body during a ABS service (especially if they installed speed-bleeders), this is also not real common but it does happen. If the valve body is cracked then no reason to even try to save the ABS module for future repair.

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041100S

Dirtrider, interested in your comment about the use of Speed Bleeders causing the ABS module to possibly crack, how would the use of these cause this problem as they are one way valves? Was thinking of installing these but now have some concern about it.

 

Szurszewski, regarding the possibility of having to ditch the ABS unit I found this website that sells a unit to replace the module and eliminate the ABS but keep all the electronics working, not cheap but maybe an alternative to other methods, https://shop.rhelectronics.de/shop/produkt/motorcycle/new-equipment-en/rh-second-life-kit/?lang=en. My 04 1100S has the same brakes but so far with yearly brake flush it is still working. If I ever lose the ABS module then I will remove it and go to conventional brakes. A note, I just installed the EV14 injectors and adapters from Euromotoelectrics and it is running really well. 

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dirtrider
40 minutes ago, 041100S said:

Dirtrider, interested in your comment about the use of Speed Bleeders causing the ABS module to possibly crack, how would the use of these cause this problem as they are one way valves? Was thinking of installing these but now have some concern about it.

 

 

 

Morning 041100S

 

It's not the speed bleeder operation that causes the problem but the sealant used on the speed bleeder threads.

 

The corners of the ABS module valve block (for the control circuits) are fairly weak & the threads are close to the edge, so the wedging action of the thread sealant can cause the valve block to crack. (not real often but often enough that I have seen a few with cracks).

 

It would be one thing  if you actually needed speed bleeders to do the job but the control circuit bleeders are up top & very easy to access when reaching the hand lever or foot brake pedal  so I just don't see the need for speed bleeders.

 

If you really want a check valve type system then just use a catch bottle with the bleed hose running to  the bottom of the container, once the end of the hose gets below fluid level in the container then the fluid in the container acts like a check valve.

 

If you see small evenly placed tiny air bubbles in the bleed hose  then just raise the container to be above the bleed nipple & the bubbles will go away.  

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szurszewski
Posted (edited)

Thanks guys. I'll get the tank off and check out the ABS module tomorrow morning - hopefully - and see if that gives me any further info, and I'll also send the PO a text and see if he has any more details on what was wrong/who did the diagnosis. (He was also having some plumbing failure repaired yesterday, and the plumber showed up about 60 seconds after I pulled up, so the guy was a little distracted going back and forth between us.)

 

@dirtrider I may hit you up for some more info on what I need to do to keep the speedo if I ditch the controller. I have found a page which I think talks about doing that, but unfortunately it's only partial info as it refers to a video that is no longer available for some of the details (I'm kind of a hands on learner, so I'm thinking it will make more sense once I'm actually in there looking at the hardware). I've helped with a couple of flushes on 1150RTs with servo brakes, but it's been...about twelve years I guess, and the details are vague in my mind. I do have the procedures stored as PDF etc. though.

 

EDIT TO ADD:

One more question: I have read that the units are model specific, so if I were to try to find a used functioning unit it would have to be from an R1100S to work properly (assuming this is maybe related to wheel diameter for speedo/ABS reading function?) - is this true? Specifically I read somewhere that I can't now find that "Dealers are no longer able to recode ABS controllers to work on different models."  

 

And, here's the link I mentioned above but forgot to include:

 

http://www.karlsgarage.com/motorcyclepage/ABS_Delete.htm

 

Edited by szurszewski
I forgot some stuff! It's early!

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041100S

DR, Thanks for the clarification on where the speed bleeders were used. I was not going to use them on the control circuits just use the catch bottle as you said. Was thinking on using them on the calipers only to make it a little easier when operating the ABS pump to flush.

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dirtrider
6 minutes ago, 041100S said:

DR, Thanks for the clarification on where the speed bleeders were used. I was not going to use them on the control circuits just use the catch bottle as you said. Was thinking on using them on the calipers only to make it a little easier when operating the ABS pump to flush.

 

Afternoon 041100S

 

Due to the I-ABS power servos being positive pressure  you really don't need anything more than a catch bottle (with hose to the bottom) for the calipers either.  A catch bottle works just great & if raised above caliper level will prevent air bubbles in the bleed hose. (all I ever use is a catch bottle & standard bleeders)

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041100S

Thanks DR, will go with the catch bottle only as done before. Slowly getting it ready for the yearly flush. Front calipers off and blocks in place to fully compress the pistons back in their bores, then to the rear.

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Indy Dave

from this thread: https://www.bmwsporttouring.com/topic/89018-05-servo-fault/?tab=comments#comment-1002856

 

On 8/19/2018 at 1:21 PM, lkraus said:

This post over at BMWMOA.org says Module Masters is now rebuilding iABS units, though their website has not yet been updated.

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Lowndes

Hey, szurszewski,

 

You didn't buy that bike, at that price you stole it.  Good job.  Ride it that way.


I have a '99 R1100S with ABS (have been told is is the ABS II model).  The ABS is passive until a wheel slips and then does the pulse, as I understand it.  Never had it come on. Can't really say how or if it still works.  Everything else (brake lights, etc) works. 

 

I went the opposite way you did and bought a '00 K1200RS and it gets the most use now.  My bro rides the R11S mostly now as his airheads always seem to be down for some reason (??!!). 

 

Sounds like you are well on the way to getting the ABS resolved so here is my experience with the rest of it.  Not sure how much was corrected before your '04 was built.

 

The HES wiring on mine was the same as the RT (decomposing insulation under the sheath) and '04 was about the time BMW corrected that, I think, but Dirt Rider would know.  If it was not corrected on yours that might be your starting problem.

 

There is NO storage on the bike and a GIVI tank bag with the quick release works really well.  The side cases if you didn't get them are common to several models of that era and are on eBay.

 

An aftermarket seat is MUCH better.  

 

You mentioned possibly replacing the brake lines.  Weather you keep or delete the ABS, you SHOULD replace the OEM flexible lines with Spiegler or Galfer PTFE lines, along with the clutch lines (3).  The OEM lines begin to fail at about 15 years.  

 

While doing the clutch lines you might consider replacing the slave cyl (3 screws) and drilling a weep hole in the housing. That can be done ON the bike without removing exhaust, shift linkage, etc, but best done when the slave cyl is out.  My slave leaked and killed the clutch.  BIG prob.

 

The BEST and LEAST EXPENSIVE improvement to all around engine performance I made was an AFXied by NightRider.  

 

A Boxer Performance Induct along with a San Jose  Air Filter really improved the upper end breathing.  These bikes only put about 80 HP on the ground so you need all the help...and they have asthma not constipation.  I use the rev limiter as the shift point now.

 

The EV14 injectors sure helped the smoothness of the engine.  Quicker throttle response too it seems.

 

Can't tell from the pics but if it still has the OEM shocks they are over due.  Call Ted Porter and talk to him.  He has (or had three years back) a R11S and put Wilber units on it.  He set mine up at it transformed the bike.  It handles and rides SOOO much better.  WELL worth the $$$, imho.  The Michelin PR4'sdo very well on it, too.

 

If you are using an AGM battery (PC680, Westco, etc) you might want to replace the voltage reg with a 14.5v reg from EME to keep the battery fully charged.  The battery will last longer and the Motronic will like it better, too.

 

If the 44K on your bike is accurate and I'm sure it is, then you have most likely passed the clutch spline issue window (25-35K).  Good thing.

 

You'll wish you had the quick disconnects on the tank gas lines very quickly.  Also, you might want to replace the gas filter and internal flexible gas lines if that hasn't been covered in a service.

 

LED bulbs EVERYWHERE, Headlights, brake/tail, turns.  See and be seen.  EZPZ.

 

All this sounds like a lot and it is, but easily done in a garage, one step at a time.  If you need sources or details, pics, links to discussions, please let me know.

 

Congrats on the new ride!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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SANTA

you can use the side case of a r1150rt. i added a givi topbox which required a givi mounting frame. i prefer that to the side cases, but also have some softside pannier bags.

 

i don't think you can monkey with the voltage regulator since its built into the alternator like on a car.?

 

barbacks might be nice , does it have the direct 12v postive post mod at the starter? if not add one. i can tell you about being on atrip and having the battery die with now way to boost start it.

shocks yeah... still need to consider that upgrade...

 

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szurszewski

@Indy Dave thanks - looks like about a year ago that module got repaired - but only after they were told, in February, that it would be done in a month! I'm hoping to figure out by Monday if the thing really is toast, and if it is I'll go from there. I will probably send MM a message in the meantime to see what's up.

 

@SANTA The bike did come with a set of keyed cases in great shape - and a spare rear tire - and the original bill of sale and paperwork envelope. It also has the positive battery post on the starter (and ground near the throttle body); I thought that was maybe stock to this bike - but, in any case, it's there.

 

I found, on ibmwr this morning, a fellow in Kelowna BC selling a 2004 S as a parts bike - apparently it fell off a truck at 30k kilometers and broke the frame/steering neck. Unfortunately for me it's a non ABS bike...but still tempting at such low mileage - has Ohlins shocks too!

 

@Lowndes Wow - that's a lot :)

 

I'm pretty happy with the price - especially for a single owner bike - but then we'll have to see how much I put into it before I get to actually try riding it. I don't think it's quite so crazy low as repairing the bike to stock, assuming the ABS  unit is really dead, would cost anywhere from one to three thousand bucks just for parts. Hopefully I'll be able to get things going for less than or at least close to the low end of that.

 

I don't think the start issue is HES - everything seems to work consistently (fuel pump, starter, etc) but it just doesn't catch. I already have the (BMW branded) battery out and the - terminal was really corroded. I am expecting - maybe foolishly - that when I put the new battery (PC680) in the bike will fire...but we'll see.

 

Once I know what I'm doing with the electronic part of the brakes all the non-hard lines will be replaced; thanks for reminding me about the clutch lines! I also haven't even looked at the clutch slave, but I'll do that.

 

I will need to get a tankbag, and maybe a tail rack. We'll see about the seat.

 

Ted set up custom shocks for our sidecar rig and it was great - as I'm sure you won't be surprised he and I talked quite a bit about bikes (and other stuff) in the process of setting that up. I'll be going to him for steel brake and clutch lines, so I can ask about shocks then...but that and any performance mods can wait until after I see what it's like in stock form. I'm a pretty pokey rider, so I may be happy with it just as is...

 

The PO said the transmission output splines had sheared and been replaced. Hopefully the repair holds up and it doesn't shear them again right away at least...

 

Quick disconnects are ordered, and I've already got a set of in-tank lines so those will be replaced along with the fuel filter and all fluids, follwed by a valve check/adjust and throttle body synch...assuming I can get it to start ;) and stop. 

 

 

 

 

All great stuff - keep it coming and I'll post up when I've got info on the brake system.

 

 

 

 

 

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Lowndes

szurszewski,

I think I read somewhere the crappy HES wiring issue was corrected in '03.  It's easy to check on a boxer, just pull a spark plug cap, stick an old plug in the cap and ground it while cranking (kill switch ON).  Do it in the shade so you can see any spark.  The starter AND fuel pump will work with a good or bad HES, but if it's bad you won't get spark or fuel spray as the HES signals the Motronic for both. 

 

You could check the fuel system by removing an injector and putting it in a clear plastic coke bottle and cranking (kill switch ON and plug cap back on the installed spark plug - NO open sparks, please).  THAT simple two-screw test will tell you if you're getting fuel all the way to the piston.

 

Even tho Ted is the largest Ohlins distrib, he recommend Wilbur because they have adjustable comp and rebound damping where Ohlins only had rebound.  Plus they were much less $$. I'm very happy with them.  Got another set for the K bike, same result.

 

LOTS of discussion on the cause of the dreaded clutch spline problem.  One theory is a bent clutch assy (wobbles on the shaft), possibly caused by dropping the crate too hard in shipping.  Easy to check thru the starter hole or timing mark hole.  The main theory is misaligned engine/tranny (crankshaft and tranny input shaft are not concentric or in-line).  You can do a visual of the tranny splines thru the starter hole.  Esmir makes a spacer for an OEM friction disc (won't work on a Siebenrock disc) that gives full spline engagement if you ever have to go back in there.

 

I had a Cortec "twist-on" tank bag that was a real PITA and sat up too high.  Went to the GIVI quick release which is MUCH better and a better bag.

 

 

 

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RoanokeRider
On 8/16/2019 at 9:53 AM, szurszewski said:

 

 

@dirtrider 

 

EDIT TO ADD:

One more question: I have read that the units are model specific, so if I were to try to find a used functioning unit it would have to be from an R1100S to work properly (assuming this is maybe related to wheel diameter for speedo/ABS reading function?) - is this true? Specifically I read somewhere that I can't now find that "Dealers are no longer able to recode ABS controllers to work on different models

 

That's to bad as I have a working one from an 04 R1150RT that I would sell for $250.

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szurszewski
43 minutes ago, RoanokeRider said:

That's to bad as I have a working one from an 04 R1150RT that I would sell for $250.

 

My new battery is yet to arrive so I haven’t really had a chance to start the bike or flush the abs. 

 

If the abs unit is out and your unit would work I’d be very happy to buy it. I’ll do some more research and see what I can find. 

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dirtrider
28 minutes ago, szurszewski said:

 

If the abs unit is out and your unit would work I’d be very happy to buy it. I’ll do some more research and see what I can find. 

 

  

 

_________________________________________________

EDIT TO ADD:

One more question: I have read that the units are model specific, so if I were to try to find a used functioning unit it would have to be from an R1100S to work properly (assuming this is maybe related to wheel diameter for speedo/ABS reading function?) - is this true? Specifically I read somewhere that I can't now find that "Dealers are no longer able to recode ABS controllers to work on different models

 

_____________________________________________________

Afternoon szurszewski   

 

Check the cross usage of that 2004 1150RT ABS controller very closely as your 1100S uses the ABS controller to condition the wheel speed input then send that to the dash for the speedometer.

 

The 1150RT has a speedometer cable for dash speed input so doesn't use the ABS for speed signal input, I don't think the 1150RT I-ABS controller will work on your S for that reason.

 

Plus the 1150 I-ABS controller is fully integrated & I can't remember but I think your late 1100 S   is only partially integrated.  

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szurszewski

I had tried a fancy new intelligent jump pack the other day and it registered a fault when I hit the starter. 

 

Was waiting for the family to get in the car today and being bored hooked up my oldest presumably dumbest jump pack. Bike fired right up and idled nicely :thumbsup:

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szurszewski

Thank you DR - I will find out what I can. So far the bits I’ve seen have indicated it will not work. 

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dirtrider
10 minutes ago, szurszewski said:

Thank you DR - I will find out what I can. So far the bits I’ve seen have indicated it will not work. 

 

Afternoon szurszewski   

 

If you can get that bike ridable (even a little) then take it for a short ride to see if speedometer functions.

 

If it does then you can do the ABS (pump part) removal & convert it to conventional (non power)  brakes.

 

Unless you are really set on having ABS (but the possibility of servo failure at about any time) then I think you will REALLY like the braking better with the ABS servo pumps removed.

 

If you are set on having the power assist & ABS then give module masters a call & talk to them  as  there is a possibility that your ABS black control box (that contains the speedometer function) will bolt on that 1150RT controller (this will only work if your bike presently has fully integrated braking)-- A quick looks shows that you do but I'm not 100% sure as some 1100S bikes were only partially integrated -- but that might have been the early 1100S bikes.  (you need to carefully check this out)

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szurszewski

Thanks for the additional input D.R.

 

I think I will have it rideable tomorrow (assuming I have at least the residual brakes) enough to run around the block. 

 

I’ll post back back after that. 

 

 

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SANTA
On 8/17/2019 at 2:38 PM, dirtrider said:

 

.. (this will only work if your bike presently has fully integrated braking)-- A quick looks shows that you do but I'm not 100% sure as some 1100S bikes were only partially integrated -- but that might have been the early 1100S bikes.  (you need to carefully check this out)

  i beleive my 03 activates the rear brake when operating the front brake lever. is that partial or fully integrated?

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dirtrider
Just now, SANTA said:

  i beleive my 03 activates the rear brake when operating the front brake lever. is that partial or fully integrated?

 

Evening   SANTA

 

That could be either. It's (IF) the REAR pedal activates the front brake that tells the story. 

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SANTA
1 minute ago, dirtrider said:

 

Evening   SANTA

 

That could be either. It's (IF) the REAR pedal activates the front brake that tells the story. 

any idea when bmw made that change?  mine is a late 03 with dual plugs...

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dirtrider
10 minutes ago, SANTA said:

any idea when bmw made that change?  mine is a late 03 with dual plugs...

 

Evening   SANTA

 

I do & I don't-- I have conflicting info on when the S went to fully integrated (if they ever did) so I don't trust the info. (the info might be your riders manual).

 

I have always thought all the 1100S with the I-ABS (wizzy) system were partially integrated (I just don't have anything to confirm that except BMW info vs parts book info & some old spec sheets.

 

Easy enough to confirm,  just raise the front wheel, turn the key on,  then see if the front brake applies with the rear brake pedal.

 

 

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szurszewski

New battery is in, bike starts right up and idles great. Rides great too - as far as I was willing to test it with the current brake situation.

 

The speedometer DOES work. 

 

The taillamp bulb appears to be fine (and the correct bulb) - I don't have a spare on hand to replace it with just to check, but I'll grab one in the morning.

 

The front brake works - not sure if it's full power or not as I have not ridden much or recently on other bikes with the iABS/servo brakes. It does stop the bike fine from 30mph, which is as fast as I was willing to go, and the ABS even works (tested on the gravel driveway); the pulse time seems slow, but that's consistent with what I've read about this system.

 

The rear brake doesn't seem to work AT ALL, so I can't say if it's integrated in any way with the front. 

 

The rear pedal has what I consider to normal resistance to pressure, but it doesn't seem to activate the rear or front brakes. The front lever will activate the front brakes only at this time.

 

When turning the bike on, after the test cycle, the dash/failure light flashes relatively slowly (1-2 per second?). Pulling the front brake lever activates the servos AND the flash rate increases (doubles?); pressing the rear pedal does not get any servo response (that I can hear) but does also increase the flash rate.

 

That's where I'm at now. I suppose you can't hear it at speed, but I have to say the servo noise is pretty annoying already and that is helping to push me further towards your advice @dirtrider to just ditch the whole pump/abs portion of the system (knowing the way my brain works, I know every time I heard that I'd think: is that pump/system about to go out again???).  

 

My plan for tomorrow is to pull the tank, visually inspect for any obvious leaks, and then attempt a flush - I borrowed a funnel from a friend today and I've got all the rest of what I need.

 

My plan for right now it to more carefully read up on the process for separating the controller from the pump and keep the brake lights and speedo working.

 

 

 

 

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dirtrider

Morning szurszewski   

 

The speedometer DOES work. --  This is a good sign & tells us that you can probably remove the servos &  ABS part but retain the electronics box for speedo & brake light function (you just need to waterproof the rear of the box & mask the general & brake warning lights in the dash).

 

The taillamp bulb appears to be fine (and the correct bulb) - I don't have a spare on hand to replace it with just to check, but I'll grab one in the morning.--  A bad rear bulb will ONLY put the general  warning light on not the ABS warning & definitely won't cause a rear brake failure to operate.

 

The front brake works - not sure if it's full power or not as I have not ridden much or recently on other bikes with the iABS/servo brakes. It does stop the bike fine from 30mph, which is as fast as I was willing to go, and the ABS even works (tested on the gravel driveway); the pulse time seems slow, but that's consistent with what I've read about this system.

 

The rear brake doesn't seem to work AT ALL, so I can't say if it's integrated in any way with the front. --  This, you need to figure out. Possibly in the servo rear wheel circuit  part (you would think that you would have had a soft rear pedal if the control circuit side was low on fluid or had a problem)

 

The rear pedal has what I consider to normal resistance to pressure, but it doesn't seem to activate the rear or front brakes. The front lever will activate the front brakes only at this time. --  See above

 

When turning the bike on, after the test cycle, the dash/failure light flashes relatively slowly (1-2 per second?). Pulling the front brake lever activates the servos AND the flash rate increases (doubles?); pressing the rear pedal does not get any servo response (that I can hear) but does also increase the flash rate. -- This is pretty normal with a single end failure.

 

That's where I'm at now. I suppose you can't hear it at speed, but I have to say the servo noise is pretty annoying already and that is helping to push me further towards your advice @dirtrider to just ditch the whole pump/abs portion of the system (knowing the way my brain works, I know every time I heard that I'd think: is that pump/system about to go out again???).--  This is definitely one option & does give great feeling quiet braking (just no ABS available).

 

My plan for tomorrow is to pull the tank, visually inspect for any obvious leaks, and then attempt a flush - I borrowed a funnel from a friend today and I've got all the rest of what I need. --  Yes, this should answer some questions & possibly give you a direction to go. Also verify (IF) the brake light works from the rear pedal only. Also verify that the rear brake pedal switch is working & adjusted somewhat correctly.

 

My plan for right now it to more carefully read up on the process for separating the controller from the pump and keep the brake lights and speedo working.-- Hopefully you can find some info  on doing this to the late 1100S bike, for the most part it is fairly straight forward but the S has that speedo input to deal with & you do have to kill the dash 'general' & 'ABS' warning  lights.  What I am unsure of is if you will still hear clicking from the ABS black box as it tries to flash the dash lights (even with the lights not connected).

 

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Indy Dave

Glad you got the 'ole gal running and one of the two original main issues resolved! I have a 06RT with servo brakes and a 10RT without. I'm not aware of the Wizz when I'm riding the 06, and I prefer the reduced lever/pedal travel of the servo brakes vs non-servo.

 

Just sayin'.

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szurszewski

Got up early and ended up actually working a few hours this morning instead of working on the bike. But I did at least determine that the rear brake lever activates the brake light :)

 

I will hopefully be able to actually do some bike work after lunch. 

 

Edit to add: 

 

The PO said the full tool kit was under the seat, but I’ll admit to not actually checking before buying the bike. It is there and complete. This morning I took a second to open the cover I assumed would hide the manual. The manual is there looking pristine other than the 1000km service stamp, AND the full tire repair kit is there too!

 

E77CB020-1461-435A-B85F-9C0A49A73DE3.thumb.jpeg.34aa42dbc69c04599506714c82f548ad.jpeg

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SANTA

Us BMW owners tend to be like that... "here's the manual read it, i never did!, thats why i ask all the questions...."  i can say i read it at least once... and the tools well we tend to have garage full already..

 

the one tool that is most valuable is the sparkplug wrench. hole is to tight for a normal one.

 

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szurszewski

ABS unit is out - controller and pump are separated - most brake lines are removed and replacements are hopefully on their way (Porter didn't have them in stock but Spiegler is supposed to be shipping them directly). Next step is figuring out how to close up the controller. I hadn't looked at it (or pics online) carefully and was expecting a flat interface, but it actually has open lobes/semi circles on two sides. I don't have anything thin enough to bend on hand...so that and cleaning up crud from where the ABS used to live are the morning's projects.

 

Just for fun here're some pics.

 

parts coming off...

IMG_8098.thumb.jpg.65d87a73e044f7676ee3e2529ffb6ba1.jpg

 

 

fluid looks a *little* questionable

IMG_8091.thumb.jpg.1f9266e9356237dfb9982a4d15df5982.jpg

 

perhaps this crud is related to the pump issues?

IMG_8092.thumb.jpg.66b2645afde92306a3a6f725c1ceee86.jpg

 

 

The top of the pump looked like maybe the "metering" circuit (freely admit I don't know exactly what that circuit does) was leaking, but the only crusty areas were on the bottom.

IMG_8111.thumb.jpg.b4a0d97560fff4461eb25470fa77ccfa.jpgIMG_8109.thumb.jpg.aa49dcbecccc5327794a89093c2a0143.jpg

 

I have a big set of security/tamper resistant bits which I thought had the pentabular torx (Torx Pro security, says the internet) but it did not. From what I've read these were only used for a short part of production and most units have the one-way drive screws. The Dremel made some quick slots and they were then quite easy to get out - seemed easier than drilling them out as others have suggested online.

IMG_8108.thumb.jpg.3a785ccb002ffecf8ba85d6e6925081f.jpg

 

...hopefully later I'll have some pics of the control unit back in the bike and a report on whether or not the brake lights work (should probably wait until the new brake lines are it to see if the speedo works ;) )...

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AndyS

What a mess, it's little surprise you had braking issues!

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wbw6cos

Looks like used cooking oil and bits of lard.  Oh, my.

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SANTA

almost looks like somebody pi$$ed in it... gives a general indication of said PO's maintenance abilities...

 

think you made the right decision, who knows how long it would take to get all the crap out,... you may have to also get into the brake calipers as well, because they would likely have some of the same gunge..

 

Definition: GUNGE  - a semi liquid  mixed with  lumpy solids resembling piss, vinegar and mayonnaise, allowed to ferment and rot  for a period of at least a year. cannot be cleaned with any caustic, acid or bio agent know to man...

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LBump
On 8/19/2019 at 9:43 AM, szurszewski said:

Got up early and ended up actually working a few hours this morning instead of working on the bike. But I did at least determine that the rear brake lever activates the brake light :)

 

I will hopefully be able to actually do some bike work after lunch. 

 

Edit to add: 

 

The PO said the full tool kit was under the seat, but I’ll admit to not actually checking before buying the bike. It is there and complete. This morning I took a second to open the cover I assumed would hide the manual. The manual is there looking pristine other than the 1000km service stamp, AND the full tire repair kit is there too!

 

E77CB020-1461-435A-B85F-9C0A49A73DE3.thumb.jpeg.34aa42dbc69c04599506714c82f548ad.jpeg

 

Sorry Josh, But I don't see the OEM feeler gauges.  It's not complete... :)

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SANTA

my 03 does not have feeler gauges in the factory kit..

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szurszewski
49 minutes ago, LBump said:

 

Sorry Josh, But I don't see the OEM feeler gauges.  It's not complete... :)

Ok, it is missing something, which I noticed after posting and now that I am looking at the spot it sure could be a set if feeler gauges. I thought you were kidding ... but is that really what goes here?

 

Edit: there’s supposed to be a picture there. I’ll have to find it. 

 

Second edit: image search online shows that the spot I have empty could hold feeler gauges. The kit seems to have changed over the years so no idea if this bike came with them or not. 

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LBump
1 hour ago, szurszewski said:

Ok, it is missing something, which I noticed after posting and now that I am looking at the spot it sure could be a set if feeler gauges. I thought you were kidding ... but is that really what goes here?

 

Edit: there’s supposed to be a picture there. I’ll have to find it. 

 

Second edit: image search online shows that the spot I have empty could hold feeler gauges. The kit seems to have changed over the years so no idea if this bike came with them or not. 

 

Here is a crusty example.... lower right  holds the feeler gauge.

 

s-l1600.jpg

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szurszewski

Controller is sealed up and back in place. As I said earlier the brake

lights work but don’t know about the speedo yet. 

 

D5D145EB-4387-4577-9B3D-5440FE9A143B.thumb.jpeg.0cdfbf113952526ea0beac16f478b23e.jpegFE3A0E71-408D-42BE-AD4E-470B2D08FF77.thumb.jpeg.a30a82684d591bca0f5a6c506f3746c2.jpeg

 

Lots of extra space now - too bad it’s not more easily accessible, otherwise it would be a great place to put a pump or jump pack etc. 

 

I figured the clear acrylic would let me see if crud/moisture was getting into the  controller, and I thought it would look cool/fun...but mostly it was just what I had around. 

 

Not much else else accomplished yesterday, but I did get the license plate

light replaced and I cleaned a bunch of built up commuting crud off various parts of the bike. 

 

Found another thing to take care of:

 

1B26A027-E4F2-4BEA-BB09-D117E2E41157.thumb.jpeg.e170d4a74891a37fecb151ab0642e44c.jpeg

 

Hoping I can fix that with a two dollar o-ring. Just kidding - I’m sure it’s a $7 o-ring ;)

 

Got to work today and Friday, and making a run to Portland tomorrow. If I’m lucky all my supplies and parts will arrive on/before Friday and I can get the rest of the 22 things on my to-do list accomplished Saturday ... and then maybe ride this thing Sunday. Maybe. 

 

 

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szurszewski

While I was hanging out in Portland doing fun things (like going to the dentist...ok, and also like having a burger at my favorite used-to-by-my-neighobrhood tavern) I was also watching the UPS driver get closer and closer to my house with a package from Spiegler. 

 

I have to say I'm once again super happy with Ted Porter's Beemer Shop. This is the second time I've called them and wanted brake lines for a bike more than a decade out of production, and the second time they've got them to me a day BEFORE my requested delivery. (This time they had them drop-shipped direct from Spiegler 2-day air; last time Ted took them to the post office himself just before closing.)

 

So I got home and had toys waiting. 

IMG_8137.thumb.jpg.98e58c4ceb4409ad29b355ae932f8b8f.jpg
 

If you look closely you'll see in addition to the brake line set a USB outlet/voltage meter. I'll add fuseblock later to wire in a heated gear outlet and a couple of other things, but this will do fine for the rest of the summer.

 

Oh - do you think that air filter needs replacing? Probably ok, right?

 

I just had a few minutes to spare between family things, so I figured I'd pull the rear caliper and brake hose to get that ready to go. I'll go into this later maybe, but the PO sent me an email with some service history and one of the things was taking the bike in for "noisy rear brakes" - he said the shop said the pads were fine/lots of life left, and didn't do anything. You think this pin was maybe causing some issues with pad movement?

 

IMG_8138.thumb.jpg.3d6109c8cd0c6c8db9d0eaad8e642848.jpg

 

I spent some time with fine grit wet/dry, brake cleaner and emory cloth and it's much better - will get replaced with the next pad set (pads do have a lot of life left!). As it started I could barely drive it out of the caliper.

 

I went to put on the new rear line...and...shit. It doesn't fit. Did they send me the ABS line in a package for the non-ABS? If it were three inches longer OR had a straight banjo fitting on the MC end it would be perfect. A quick check of the fiche (should have done this before!) shows the issue:

 

451148695_ScreenShot2019-08-22at10_53_03PM.png.b8b357aa2687953be43610a9f23978a1.png

 

I don't have #3. On the ABS bike the MC feeds a hard line to the ABS pump, and another hard line comes back to part #6. So, good job Spiegler and Beemer Shop - you sent me the right part. Bad job me for not knowing what I needed. I'd like to get this running Saturday and I work tomorrow. I'm going to try stopping by, early, a brake shop nearby that used to make custom lines and see if they can create that pipe for me either in pipe or just a steel line...

 

I did match up the front pieces and it looks like I should be all good there at least!

 

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szurszewski

Finishes refreshing one front caliper and installing shortest bit of new brake lines at 0612; questions the necessity of doing the remaining calipers and lines...

DCA24AD5-CD3A-457F-AECB-BDDA5CCCA9F3.thumb.jpeg.2e305ac9907ea33b4f618e19c90f15ee.jpeg

 

...Those old school chopper guys got by fine with just a rear drum brake - this one front disc should be plenty...

 

 

Thinks better of that, draws handy little diagram for brake line guy, 

D9FBACBA-5058-43BF-B226-006C23156EA1.thumb.jpeg.ece3d48a4ba461ec2a6fce1260c281bf.jpeg

starts oven preheating for breakfast scones and moves on to second front caliper. 

 

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dirtrider
11 hours ago, szurszewski said:

 

I don't have #3. On the ABS bike the MC feeds a hard line to the ABS pump, and another hard line comes back to part #6. So, good job Spiegler and Beemer Shop - you sent me the right part. Bad job me for not knowing what I needed. I'd like to get this running Saturday and I work tomorrow. I'm going to try stopping by, early, a brake shop nearby that used to make custom lines and see if they can create that pipe for me either in pipe or just a steel line...

 

 

Afternoon szurszewski

 

Try a local (GOOD) auto parts store, most should have a selection of pre-made brake lines with different end fittings. BMW flair is not all that unique so an auto parts store might have what you need pre made in a close length.

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041100S

Hello Szurszewski,

 

Don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but if the battery in one of your last pictures is an Odyssey PC680 AGM you might want to consider upgrading the regulator to one that will put out 14.5 v so that the AGM is properly charged all the time. I have read in several posts where guys are doing this in the older BMW. I need to do it but my ABS is still working so I leave it on a charger (CTEK) when not riding. Try Euromotoelectrics.com for the regulator.

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