throttle body butterfly stop screws and resetting to factory

[Bushytas]

Hi all

 

I have one massive Question

 

I sent my bike to a mechanic who moved the stop screws on the throttle bodies. ( yes the do not touch screws as in the picture)

 

The question i now have is how do i reset them back to factory ANY HELP WOULD BE APPRECIATED

 

[dirtrider]

Morning Bushytas

 

First thing is: HOPEFULLY the blue paint marks are still visible. If so then try to line the blue paint

marking back up.

 

Otherwise you either need new throttle bodies (super expensive) OR use a GS-911, or dealer computer, &

T-R-Y to get the stepper motor steps to be close side to side & to be in the ball park with other similar

1200 bikes using the base idle screws.

 

I haven't ever tried to get the base idle re-factory-matched on the 1200 bikes but think I could get it

close if I really had to.

 

Seeing as you are here asking about "how" then I really don't think it is a job you should try yourself. If done incorrectly it could make it worse yet.

 

Maybe- see if your local BMW dealer can get those screws back close to factory specs & have your

screw-up-mechanic pay for it.

 

Or at least find a local BMW technician that KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE DOING to possibly get it back

close to factory specs.

 

 

 

Edited September 23, 2015 by dirtrider

[Bushytas]

Hi Dirtrider

 

I do have a GS 911 but Ive only just brought it and arrived last week.

I dont really have any other Bmw 1200 around me to get a base. it would be great if someone had a screen shot to post so i could get an idea

yes the mechanic that stuffed it trying to fix it but to be honest its getting worse the more he stuffs with it.

 

I live in a small state of Australia and we dont really have trained BMW mechanics as much as that sounds stupid, BMws aren't a big seller here

 

[dirtrider]

Morning Bushytas

 

Exactly what bike --year,, model,, type,, etc are you working with?

 

Maybe I have a screen dump on the idle actuator positions based on temperature, altitude, & system voltage that is close to yours.

 

Did he mess with any other engine controls???????

[Bushytas]

Edited September 23, 2015 by Bushytas

[Bushytas]

Hi as far as i know no he only moved the TB screws

 

Im trying to upload a screen cap from today but im unsure if i was in the right place

[dirtrider]

Morning Bushytas

 

Exactly what bike --year,, model,, type,, etc are you working with?

[dirtrider]

Morning Bushytas

 

We should probably get Roger involved here also as he might have a newer file on a similar bike to yours.

 

It would be REALLY nice if we could find a file on a similar bike to yours with the data taken with locked steppers.

[Bushytas]

Sorry

 

The bike is a BMW R1200 RT 2007 /9 month

 

 

[dirtrider]

 

Morning Bushytas

 

How long was the engine running before this was taken. Your idle actuator counts are WAY high unless just started & your fuel trims are off.

 

Unfortunately I have to leave for a while so won't respond here for a while. (be back later today)

[Bushytas]

Morning Bushytas

 

We should probably get Roger involved here also as he might have a newer file on a similar bike to yours.

 

It would be REALLY nice if we could find a file on a similar bike to yours with the data taken with locked steppers.

 

When you say locked Steppers do you mean unplugged ? or can i lock them in the GS 911 software?

Edited September 23, 2015 by Bushytas

[Bushytas]

 

Morning Bushytas

 

How long was the engine running before this was taken. Your idle actuator counts are WAY high unless just started & your fuel trims are off.

 

Unfortunately I have to leave for a while so won't respond here for a while. (be back later today)

 

The bike was at operational temp when this was taken. i have a number of them i will try and put up

[dirtrider]

 

When you say locked Steppers do you mean unplugged ? or can i lock them in the GS 911 software?

 

Morning Bushytas

 

 

My last post here for a while-- I'll be back later.

 

You should be able to lock the steppers with the GS-911

 

 

You need to run it long enough to see the lambda voltage start to move around then post that data (if it will go into closed loop that is)

[Bushytas]

Heres all the screen shots i took today

 

you will note the times at the top engine was mostly at temp

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 23, 2015 by Bushytas

[Bushytas]

 

Morning Bushytas

 

How long was the engine running before this was taken. Your idle actuator counts are WAY high unless just started & your fuel trims are off.

 

Unfortunately I have to leave for a while so won't respond here for a while. (be back later today)

 

What would cause the above ? im guessing the TB screw and the ecu is trying to complicate ?

[roger 04 rt]

Hi Bushytas,

 

Looking at your log, the short term trims are equal (surprisingly) and in the recent post your engine is at about 100C and your bike is running closed loop. At idle, the long term trims (additive and multiplicative) are fairly far apart.

 

I'm not familiar with the mechanics under the throttle stops but I know there are many moving pieces to getting this right.

 

You want to be hot but not too hot so you should have good fan cooling, and my opinion is that you should make sure the TB bores and valves are clean before you start. You should also be certain that your valves are well adjusted. The reason for these precautions is that you're going to use manifold vacuum as your reference for resetting the TB stop screws (is that mechanically what those screws do?). Also, there must be no VACUUM LEAKS.

 

At hot idle (~100C) you should aim for 1100 RPM with the steppers at ~120 counts at pressure 998.96 kg/cm2 which I believe is about 14.21 PSI. I noticed that your air pressure is 14.88 PSI which is probably close enough. If you're still at 14.88, maybe use 110 as your target stepper count.

 

I noticed your stepper count at the moment is about 200 which from experience is nearer the max for a COLD engine so I would guess that your mechanic backed the TB screws off and now the BMSK has to open the idle adjusters to get idle correct.

 

So DR may disagree with this approach but my first thought is a little different, rather than locking the steppers, use their count as your output and target them to a certain value.

 

--Get the engine hot but keep it cooled.

--Get a vacuum balance tool and GS-911 set up.

--Let the engine idle naturally

--Then turn in the TB stop screws until each stepper is at about 110-120. Exactly equal.

--Keep an eye on your vacuum balance to make sure it stays balanced.

 

WORK SLOWLY and count and record the turns on the TB screws so you can always go back to where you started.

 

When you are all done, reset the Adaptive Values so you can check later. Also, you want to shut off the bike so that the steppers reset, then restart the bike and make sure things are where you want them.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 23, 2015 by roger 04 rt

[Bushytas]

 

Morning Bushytas

 

How long was the engine running before this was taken. Your idle actuator counts are WAY high unless just started & your fuel trims are off.

 

Unfortunately I have to leave for a while so won't respond here for a while. (be back later today)

 

What would cause the above ? im guessing the TB screw and the ecu is trying to complicate ?

sorry that word should be compensate but I'm unable to edit the post 😒

[roger 04 rt]

bushytas, if you go back and see my post, your supposition is likely correct. I red highlighted the area I'm referring to.

[roger 04 rt]

Although I suggested a target of 100-110, if it is a good dry day with higher barometric pressure you could drop the target to 90 +/-. If it is hot and humid or rainy perhaps 100+/-.

[Bushytas]

Although I suggested a target of 100-110, if it is a good dry day with higher barometric pressure you could drop the target to 90 +/-. If it is hot and humid or rainy perhaps 100+/-.

Hi Roger ( Thank you so much first off )

I live in a cold area of Australia most days here at the moment are not over 20c today is 13.2c humidity 53.0% pressure 15.00psi at 9:30am

I will hand your thoughts on to the mechanic,hes coming today to pick the bike up again ( grumpy face )

Im really pissed off he even touched it but hes trying to fix it, so i guess that's good. But its been 3 weeks now he keeps coming back and saying ive got it right one. I ride it and it feels like a rough pig.

Im not into loaning my gear out but i believe i might take my gs 911 to him myself,and work with him to fix the problem.

otherwise he can take the throttle bodies off and send them in to get reset

Edited September 24, 2015 by Bushytas

[Bushytas]

Is anyone able to take a Gs911 reading (log) from there r1200rt while hot so i can get a base reading to go off please.

If i can place both together i can match with any luck.

I've just phoned him and hes coming to me at around 2:30pm my time today.

hopefully with the advice from Roger we should be able to get it right

[roger 04 rt]

Bushytas,

Between dr and myself we have many baseline logs. As long as you follow the outline I provided earlier 90 counts will be fine for a hot engine. If someone else is doing this, make sure they use the GS-911 and vacuum balance.

 

The reasons for vacuum balance are two-fold: first it gives you a check that the alignment is working by confirming that the BMSK is doing the right thing and making the vacuum balance. But it does a second thing, it makes you disconnect the purge valve on the left TB so that you don't get tank-purge affecting your alignment.

 

The GS-911 gives you a way to read the stepper count.

 

Your goal is to get the throttle valves where the BMSK expects them to be and for them to be open to the same degree. Open the butterflys too little and the steppers open too much. Open the butterflys too much and the steppers close. In either case the butterfly-angle transfer curve is different from what the BMSK expects. Also, if the steppers are too closed or too open they run out of range for various temp/pressure conditions.

 

All that said I don't believe the difference between 85 and 105 on the count will matter too much.

 

Good luck.

[Bushytas]

Bushytas,

Between dr and myself we have many baseline logs. As long as you follow the outline I provided earlier 90 counts will be fine for a hot engine. If someone else is doing this, make sure they use the GS-911 and vacuum balance.

 

The reasons for vacuum balance are two-fold: first it gives you a check that the alignment is working by confirming that the BMSK is doing the right thing and making the vacuum balance. But it does a second thing, it makes you disconnect the purge valve on the left TB so that you don't get tank-purge affecting your alignment.

 

The GS-911 gives you a way to read the stepper count.

 

Your goal is to get the throttle valves where the BMSK expects them to be and for them to be open to the same degree. Open the butterflys too little and the steppers open too much. Open the butterflys too much and the steppers close. In either case the butterfly-angle transfer curve is different from what the BMSK expects. Also, if the steppers are too closed or too open they run out of range for various temp/pressure conditions.

 

All that said I don't believe the difference between 85 and 105 on the count will matter too much.

 

Good luck.

 

Thank you four the information

 

the mechanic will be coming back today so im going to print out your advice and hand it to him.

hes going to have to follow it otherwise he can remove the throttle bodies and send them off ive had enough.

 

Thank you

Edited September 24, 2015 by Bushytas

[roger 04 rt]

I'm curious why he adjusted the stop screws in the first place. Was there a condition he was trying to correct?

Edited September 24, 2015 by roger 04 rt

[Bushytas]

He said he thought they were like the 1100rt and could use to adjust the idle balance no idea how true that is but its his stuff up not mine thank god

Edited September 24, 2015 by Bushytas

[roger 04 rt]

Well at least he answered honestly. FYI, They are not used for TB balance on any 1100, 1150 or 1200.

 

If he's interested here is the r1150 procedure. http://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php?73962-TPS-Alignment-Idle-Speed-Adjustment-Beyond-Zero-Zero&p=1003851#post1003851

Edited September 24, 2015 by roger 04 rt

[Bushytas]

Well at least he answered honestly. FYI, They are not used for TB balance on any 1100, 1150 or 1200.

 

If he's interested here is the r1150 procedure. http://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php?73962-TPS-Alignment-Idle-Speed-Adjustment-Beyond-Zero-Zero&p=1003851#post1003851

I will pass it on

 

Im about to upload a video to youtube so you can hear what it sounds like

[Bushytas]

engine idle after TB was moved

 

engine idle after being returned 3rd time

[Bushytas]

Hi Bushytas,

 

Looking at your log, the short term trims are equal (surprisingly) and in the recent post your engine is at about 100C and your bike is running closed loop. At idle, the long term trims (additive and multiplicative) are fairly far apart.

 

I'm not familiar with the mechanics under the throttle stops but I know there are many moving pieces to getting this right.

 

You want to be hot but not too hot so you should have good fan cooling, and my opinion is that you should make sure the TB bores and valves are clean before you start. You should also be certain that your valves are well adjusted. The reason for these precautions is that you're going to use manifold vacuum as your reference for resetting the TB stop screws (is that mechanically what those screws do?). Also, there must be no VACUUM LEAKS.

 

At hot idle (~100C) you should aim for 1100 RPM with the steppers at ~120 counts at pressure 998.96 kg/cm2 which I believe is about 14.21 PSI. I noticed that your air pressure is 14.88 PSI which is probably close enough. If you're still at 14.88, maybe use 110 as your target stepper count.

 

I noticed your stepper count at the moment is about 200 which from experience is nearer the max for a COLD engine so I would guess that your mechanic backed the TB screws off and now the BMSK has to open the idle adjusters to get idle correct.

 

So DR may disagree with this approach but my first thought is a little different, rather than locking the steppers, use their count as your output and target them to a certain value.

 

--Get the engine hot but keep it cooled.

--Get a vacuum balance tool and GS-911 set up.

--Let the engine idle naturally

--Then turn in the TB stop screws until each stepper is at about 110-120. Exactly equal.

--Keep an eye on your vacuum balance to make sure it stays balanced.

 

WORK SLOWLY and count and record the turns on the TB screws so you can always go back to where you started.

 

When you are all done, reset the Adaptive Values so you can check later. Also, you want to shut off the bike so that the steppers reset, then restart the bike and make sure things are where you want them.

 

 

 

 

Ok we followed your instructions no luck im afraid.

 

we got the steppers to 114 at 100c but its till not right still running rough, in guessing we will never get it right unless its benched

[dirtrider]

Morning Bushytas

 

I'm back for a short time this morning then will be gone again this afternoon.

 

I think you guys are going to have to put a U tube manometer on that bike (one manometer hose on each TB nipple)

 

Not only does the stepper counts need to be close (it sounds like you are getting close there). From some of my hexhead data you might still be a little high on the hot idle stepper counts but not far enough off to make it run that bad (especially above idle).

 

Not only do you need to get the stepper counts set correctly (Roger's method above should get you close) -- BUT you need to check & verify that the cross side (hot idle) vacuum balance is close. BMW spec is no more than 25mbar cross side vacuum difference at hot engine idle. 25mbar is about 10" water column.

 

In my past experience that 25 mbar is very generous & most 1200 hexheads I have worked on run no more than 10 mbar (4" water column) difference between sides at stable hot engine idle.

 

Then you need to re-check (AND KEEP RE-CHECKING the above idle (1400-1800 rpm) cross side balance to keep that under 15mbar (6" water) in the 1400-1800 rpm range using the R/H

cable adjuster.

 

You also have to check the stepper count on the GS-911 as the throttle is opened & the steppers link together & follow the throttle. The linkup step counts should be, equal to, or higher than the curb idle stepper position.

 

So --if-- your stepper counts at idle are 100 & 102 counts on each side then they MUST be at or above 102 counts as they link together & follow the throttle (this it prevent engine stall on a quickly dropped throttle)

 

All these adjustments will take some run time so be sure to keep cooling fans blowing on the engine as you make the adjustments.

 

 

[dirtrider]

More follow up--

 

As I said above I haven't ever had to straighten out a 1200 hexhead that has had the base idle screws messed with but do believe I could get it back close to factory if I needed to.

 

I do have one advantage though as I have some trapped data from when my bikes were set correctly.

 

Rogers method above is about as good as any to get it in the ball park so it will at least idle with the steppers operational & controlling the idle rpm.

 

The below is the method I would probably use to fine tune it as long as it proved to give me believable data as I moved along.

 

**First thing would be to make sure there is plenty of slack in both side throttle cables at the throttle bodies. (this is a must to get a good base adjustment)

 

**Then I would get the engine idling on it's own with stepper control of idle & get the engine up to operating temperature. (2 fans blowing on engine)

 

**Then using the GS-911 to read data I would try to get one side to show a stepper count at around 80 steps (once I got it to read 80 counts I would quickly disconnect the stepper plug (that should lock that stepper at 80 counts).

 

** Then using the GS-911 to read data & turning base idle screw (or manual throttle control) try to get the other side to show a stepper count at around 80 steps (once I got it to read 80 counts I would quickly disconnect the stepper plug on that side (that should lock that stepper position at 80 counts).

 

**OK, now that I have a known stepper count on each side of 80 counts (& that can't change due to wires being unplugged)-- I would hook up my U tube manometer to each TB nipple then use the base idle screws to get the idle speed to about 1150 rpms & the cross side vacuum balance to under 10mbar. (this should at least have both sides being equal at idle).

 

**Then I would key off, disconnect the battery for about 5 minutes (to clear fueling computer adaptives) , then re-connect battery & do a new key-on TPS re-learn (this should give a fresh re-set to the fueling control)

 

**Now I would re-start the engine & allow it to stabilize & return to a good even idle.

Then re-check the idle rpm's (should still be close to 1150 or so) & the cross side vacuum should still be at or under 10mbar. If it did not go back to 1150 idle rpm & under 10 mbar cross side balance I would re-do those to get that.

 

**Next (with the steppers STILL disconnected) I would check the above idle 1400-1800 RPM cross side vacuum balance & if not within 10mbar use the RH throttle cable adjuster (At R/H throttle body) to get cross side balance at or under 10mbar.

 

**Then (AGAIN) verify that BOTH SIDE throttle cables have a little slack at each throttle body. (if a tight cable is holding a throttle plate open slightly it will REALLY screw up the settings)

 

**NOW-- I would key down then re-connect the steppers then re-start & see what I have when stepper control is back online.

Hopefully the stepper count would be close side to side (in the 75-90 count range), the idle rpm would be stable in the 1100-1150 range, the cross side balance should still be at or under 10 mbar, & as the throttle is opened the stepper counts should link up & follow the throttle at a step count at or above the base curb idle stepper count.

 

**Last thing would be to re-check & maybe re-adjust the 1400-1800 RPM cross side balance with the steppers active to "at or under 10mbar".

 

__Then ride the bike for smoothness & throttle control, then return to shop & re-check stepper counts, idle RPM, & recheck 1400-1800 cross side vacuum balance. (hopefully it is still within original setting ranges)

 

[roger 04 rt]

+1 to DR's comments, that's a good next set of steps.

 

If you have time in the interim, between now and when you next get together with your mechanic, run a realtime, cold-start log with your GS-911. Here's what to do:

 

--let your bike sit for 8-10 hours

--key on, don't start

--set up the GS-911 to log ALL realtime values to a CSV file

--start the bike and run for 3 minutes

--stop logging and save the file

--shut the bike off

 

It looks like you have a GS-911 Wifi. Make sure it is updated to the latest firmware. You can log directly to the GS-911 or to your PC. Then PM me your email address and I'll send you mine so you can send me the file.

 

[roger 04 rt]

I listened to the videos. The bike sounds like it is missing periodically at idle. when were your spark plugs replaced last? Have you tried a set of known-good ignition coils in the primary and secondary?

[dirtrider]

I listened to the videos. The bike sounds like it is missing periodically at idle. when were your spark plugs replaced last? Have you tried a set of known-good ignition coils in the primary and secondary?

 

Morning Roger

 

Good point-- all the settings in the world won't be able to put those TB's back to factory (IF) the engine is not running correctly & firing solidly on both cylinders.

 

 

[Bushytas]

I listened to the videos. The bike sounds like it is missing periodically at idle. when were your spark plugs replaced last? Have you tried a set of known-good ignition coils in the primary and secondary?

 

Morning Roger

 

Good point-- all the settings in the world won't be able to put those TB's back to factory (IF) the engine is not running correctly & firing solidly on both cylinders.

 

 

Hi Guys

 

plugs are only new and no i haven't checked the coils but the bike was running fine before he moved the TB screws.

Strangely enough Roger i was actually going to log it tomorrow morning at a cold restart

I will post the data tomorrow, I do have some from today but its 11:50pm and ive been out fitting a snorkel to my VW Amarok all dam night so im looking forward to bed

Roger I will Pm you later on after i eat my tea

 

Thanks guys im so gratefully for the advice hopefully between me feeding the mechanic your info and me standing over top of him it will be right again

[racer7]

One of those times a real flow bench would be handy for matching (with both off the bike of course). Your local scuba shop if very good might have a flow setup for regulators that would work.

 

But you still need to get 1 at least close for this to do you any good.

[Bushytas]

Hi guys

 

I have send logs to Roger hopefully we can keep a large amount of data in the forum as well for anyone else that has this problem in later years

 

 

[Bushytas]

One of those times a real flow bench would be handy for matching (with both off the bike of course). Your local scuba shop if very good might have a flow setup for regulators that would work.

 

But you still need to get 1 at least close for this to do you any good.

 

great advice but I don't have a factory setting to go by plus I'm unsure if my local dive shop would let us use there bench.

But I am very grateful any advice is is helpful

 

Edited September 25, 2015 by Bushytas

[roger 04 rt]

Bushytas, I've been through your GS-911 log all the sensors, and the BMSK's control of fueling and timing are working and the BMSK is doing the best it can to keep your engine running.

 

There are a couple behaviors, which can be seen in the sensor charts as they progress in time, that may shed light on the problem.

 

If you look at the Engine RPM log, it starts at about 1450 RPM and drops smoothly while the engine temperature rises from 13C to 60C (end of log). This means the BMSK is able to control the steppers and ignition timing to reach desired RPM.

 

The Lambda Sensor Voltages and Lambda Control Factors (LCFs, short term trims) and behaving exactly as I'd expect. Fueling is rich for 30 seconds or so and then the O2 sensor come on line and your bike is running good Closed Loop on each cylinder. The LCFs are only making small adjustments. Everything's good.

 

The stepper motors start at 204 (normal) and drop to 160 (good) but after about 10 seconds, quickly run out to 204 again. It stays at 204 (max I believe) for about 3 minutes while the engine warms and then the BMSK is able to reduce them normally. Other R1200s I've looked at seem to drop the steppers more or less smoothly from around 160 to 100 as the bike warms, without having to run them out fully as yours did.

 

The ignition advance behaves normally for the first 30 seconds, but at the same time the stepper motors are moved from 160 to 204, the ignition advance starts to bounce around, indicative of an engine that's slightly misfiring. That seems to last for the first minute.

 

After about 2 minutes, everything looks okay and your engine seems to be idling better.

 

That's about it from the log. To me, I think you've gotten the TB Stop Screws close enough for the moment and it's time to focus on other possibilities.

RB

[dirtrider]

Morning Roger

 

What is the system voltage doing when the steppers advance? The BMS-K has the ability to bump up the engine RPM's if the system voltage is low.

 

Also- does his data show the stepper count as the throttle is advanced? That must stay at or above the curb idle stepper counts or the curb idle stepper count is set too high.

[Bushytas]

Bushytas, I've been through your GS-911 log all the sensors, and the BMSK's control of fueling and timing are working and the BMSK is doing the best it can to keep your engine running.

 

There are a couple behaviors, which can be seen in the sensor charts as they progress in time, that may shed light on the problem.

 

If you look at the Engine RPM log, it starts at about 1450 RPM and drops smoothly while the engine temperature rises from 13C to 60C (end of log). This means the BMSK is able to control the steppers and ignition timing to reach desired RPM.

 

The Lambda Sensor Voltages and Lambda Control Factors (LCFs, short term trims) and behaving exactly as I'd expect. Fueling is rich for 30 seconds or so and then the O2 sensor come on line and your bike is running good Closed Loop on each cylinder. The LCFs are only making small adjustments. Everything's good.

 

The stepper motors start at 204 (normal) and drop to 160 (good) but after about 10 seconds, quickly run out to 204 again. It stays at 204 (max I believe) for about 3 minutes while the engine warms and then the BMSK is able to reduce them normally. Other R1200s I've looked at seem to drop the steppers more or less smoothly from around 160 to 100 as the bike warms, without having to run them out fully as yours did.

 

The ignition advance behaves normally for the first 30 seconds, but at the same time the stepper motors are moved from 160 to 204, the ignition advance starts to bounce around, indicative of an engine that's slightly misfiring. That seems to last for the first minute.

 

After about 2 minutes, everything looks okay and your engine seems to be idling better.

 

That's about it from the log. To me, I think you've gotten the TB Stop Screws close enough for the moment and it's time to focus on other possibilities.

RB

 

Hi Guys

 

My bike was fine before being touched by the mechanic, the only problem I had,and the reason it went to him in the first place was to balance the throttle bodies as I have vibration in the handle bars making my finger tingle massively at the end of a 4 hour ride.

 

Anyway I found a set on throttle bodies on line tonight for $200 Australian so ive sent him a message saying this would be the cheapest way to fix the problem hopefully he goes for it.

 

mind you if we put them on and it does the same thing I'm going to look like a turkey

 

I am going to look at replacing the coils just to be on the safe side unless there is an easy way of checking them ????

 

Edited September 25, 2015 by Bushytas

[dirtrider]

Morning Bushytas

 

My bike was fine before being touched by the mechanic, the only problem I had,and the reason it went to him in the first place was to balance the throttle bodies as I have vibration in the handle bars making my finger tingle massively at the end of a 4 hour ride.

--

That vibration (more of a buzz) is in all the boxer bikes. The RPM where it happens is above the RPM range that a TB balance has much effect (in the RPM range that you get the tingle it is just about all engine mechanical not fueling/air control)--Things like heavier handlebar end weights, working at tuning the handlebars using washers & one less bolt on each side can make that bar buzz much less of a problem on longer rides.

 

Anyway I found a set on throttle bodies on line tonight for $200 Australian so ive sent him a message saying this would be the cheapest way to fix the problem hopefully he goes for it.

Hopefully that restores your base idle quality. At least you will have a known good baseline to work from.

 

I am going to look at replacing the coils just to be on the safe side unless there is an easy way of checking them ????

No good way to test them as the secondary windings are isolated with no good way to measure them--Substituting known good coils is a good test.

 

You can sometimes find blatantly bad or shorted coils by seeing IF the engine will run on JUST the upper coils or on JUST the lower coils. This usually won't show bad coils with internal arcing under engine load though.

 

Added: Have you done a TPS re-learn???? If not be sure to do that!

Edited September 25, 2015 by dirtrider

[Bushytas]

here you go guys todays run to go with the GS 911 Log TB RESET RUN COLD START

Plus this was taken two days before the mechanic

Edited September 25, 2015 by Bushytas

[Bushytas]

Morning Bushytas

 

My bike was fine before being touched by the mechanic, the only problem I had,and the reason it went to him in the first place was to balance the throttle bodies as I have vibration in the handle bars making my finger tingle massively at the end of a 4 hour ride.

--

That vibration (more of a buzz) is in all the boxer bikes. The RPM where it happens is above the RPM range that a TB balance has much effect (in the RPM range that you get the tingle it is just about all engine mechanical not fueling/air control)--Things like heavier handlebar end weights, working at tuning the handlebars using washers & one less bolt on each side can make that bar buzz much less of a problem on longer rides.

 

Anyway I found a set on throttle bodies on line tonight for $200 Australian so ive sent him a message saying this would be the cheapest way to fix the problem hopefully he goes for it.

Hopefully that restores your base idle quality. At least you will have a known good baseline to work from.

 

I am going to look at replacing the coils just to be on the safe side unless there is an easy way of checking them ????

No good way to test them as the secondary windings are isolated with no good way to measure them--Substituting known good coils is a good test.

 

You can sometimes find blatantly bad or shorted coils by seeing IF the engine will run on JUST the upper coils or on JUST the lower coils. This usually won't show bad coils with internal arcing under engine load though.

 

Added: Have you done a TPS re-learn???? If not be sure to do that!

hi Rider

 

Yeah we did a reset plus i went for a ride on the bike to let the on board re-learn

 

I wish it was all better but its not

[dirtrider]

Morning Bushytas

 

Yeah we did a reset plus i went for a ride on the bike to let the on board re-learn

 

Are we talking the same thing here (it's not a re-set but a re-learn)

 

TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) re-learn procedure-----

 

*Disconnect the cable to the battery's positive post for 30 seconds.

Then

*Reconnect the positive lead to the battery's positive terminal.

Then

*Switch on the ignition. (do not start engine)

Then

*Without starting the engine, fully open & close the throttle once or twice so that the control unit of the BMW engine management system can register the throttle-valve positions.

Then

*Switch off the ignition.

 

[Bushytas]

Morning Bushytas

 

Yeah we did a reset plus i went for a ride on the bike to let the on board re-learn

 

Are we talking the same thing here (it's not a re-set but a re-learn)

 

TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) re-learn procedure-----

 

*Disconnect the cable to the battery's positive post for 30 seconds.

Then

*Reconnect the positive lead to the battery's positive terminal.

Then

*Switch on the ignition. (do not start engine)

Then

*Without starting the engine, fully open & close the throttle once or twice so that the control unit of the BMW engine management system can register the throttle-valve positions.

Then

*Switch off the ignition.

 

mmmmmmmmmm NO we didn't do that

 

I better do that tomorrow to see if it changes anything ( Embarrassed face here)

[roger 04 rt]

Morning Bushytas

 

Yeah we did a reset plus i went for a ride on the bike to let the on board re-learn

 

Are we talking the same thing here (it's not a re-set but a re-learn)

 

TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) re-learn procedure-----

 

*Disconnect the cable to the battery's positive post for 30 seconds.

Then

*Reconnect the positive lead to the battery's positive terminal.

Then

*Switch on the ignition. (do not start engine)

Then

*Without starting the engine, fully open & close the throttle once or twice so that the control unit of the BMW engine management system can register the throttle-valve positions.

Then

*Switch off the ignition.

 

Morning DR, For my knowledge, will the BMSK reset in 30 seconds with the battery disconnected?

 

Also, can the GS-911 be used (reset Adaptive Values) to accomplish the same thing?

 

And I see that the BMSK requires throttle reregistration, same as the MA 2.4 Motronic, right?

RB

Edited September 25, 2015 by roger 04 rt

[dirtrider]

Morning Roger,

 

For my knowledge, will the BMSK reset in 30 seconds with the battery disconnected?

---They always have for me, maybe not the full adaptives but the TPS seems to go into the re-learn mode with a 30 second battery disconnect.

 

 

Also, can the GS-911 be used (reset Adaptive Values) to accomplish the same thing?

---As far as I know the GS-911 can be used but I still do it the way I always have & disconnect the battery.

 

And I see that the BMSK requires throttle reregistration, same as the MA 2.4 Motronic, right?

---Yes, (at least the earlier BMW 1200 BMS-K bikes) --only difference I can see is it only takes (1) open/close cycle rather than (2) (at least according to the service manual) --

 

From the 2007 BMW riders manual--

 

Switch on the ignition.

Without starting engine,

hold throttle twistgrip in fully

open position for at least

one second so that electronic

engine management

system can register throttlevalve

settings.

Switch off the ignition.

 

From the BMW 1200 (hexhead) service manual--

Switch on the ignition. Without starting the engine, fully open the throttle once or twice, so that the control unit of the BMW engine management system can register the throttle-valve positions.

Switch off the ignition.

 

 

My early 2009 has the above in the owners manual, the later (very late 09) has that re-learn info omitted from the riders manual --not sure if it was just an oversight in manual translation , or a running change in the learning software.

 

 

 

I have seen the 1200 BMS-K lose it's TPS learn in just a cold morning engine cranking with a cranking voltage drop to under 10 volts during cranking.

 

 

Edited September 25, 2015 by dirtrider

[Bushytas]

first off good morning all

 

hes come back again today and hes done it by ear

 

hes looked at both sides and adjusted to sound i have today it sounds really good but we will see tomorrow morning.

 

we also removed both covers off the TB screws and also found the blue paint, the bike sounded at its best when it lined up strangely enough.

 

I am going to buy the two bodies as well just because they are cheap $200au is really cheap since ive been quoted $900 2nd hand

 

Anyway hes asked me to ride it for a while to see if it corrects its self but i think i should know in the first 20kms

 

at the end of they day its only the idle hes moved the computer works out the rest; high revs. (Correct) ???

 

[dirtrider]

Morning Bushytas

 

we also removed both covers off the TB screws and also found the blue paint, the bike sounded at its best when it lined up strangely enough.

---If you can line it back up to the blue pint matching then that is a very good sign.

 

at the end of the day its only the idle he's moved ,the computer works out the rest; high revs. (Correct) ???

---Sort of, the basic stepper position is mainly for idle but the steppers lock counts & follow the throttle so they are also for dropped throttle stall prevention & they do carry up to higher RPMs & can effect the TB balance at higher RPM's.