My splines too?!?! Arghhh

[KyleD]

Update: The work is in progress at the dealership. I am trying to give BMW and my shop the benefit of any doubt, but they haven't made it easy. They have however, agreed to to rebuild my transmission under warranty. The master tech recommends replacing all tranny bearings while in there, and the shop owner called to get my approval for an additional $200-300 in parts and labor. My request for a replacement tranny was declined.

This is curious, since the service writer told me that the BMW rep specifically requested the tech to check shaft alignment as a possible cause. When I asked if the alignment checked out OK and that my casing was "good" I was told they would check alignment upon reassembly. Huh? He said the rep now says that since my tranny went 28000 miles that the alignment must not be the cause. He says that alignment issues cause failures in the 6000-8000 mile range.

Does anyone know how many / which bearings "have" to be pressed out to replace the input shaft vs. those that might be replaced simultaneously as "good measure"? (i.e. bearings that could remain undisturbed for a typical input shaft R&R).

FWIW, the service writer mentioned that the BMW rep sent a list of things he wanted checked for cause. The only other one I know of was clutch hub hardness.

[russell_bynum]

I believe there's one bearing on each end of each shaft. Three shafts. So six bearings.

 

It seems goofy to me to rebuild this transmission, then check to see if alignment was the issue. If it is the issue, then they have to replace it anyway. And I seem to recall that the cost of the rebuild isn't much different than the cost of a rebuilt transmission.

 

Good luck with this.

[SWB]

Update: The work is in progress at the dealership. I am trying to give BMW and my shop the benefit of any doubt, but they haven't made it easy. They have however, agreed to to rebuild my transmission under warranty. The master tech recommends replacing all tranny bearings while in there, and the shop owner called to get my approval for an additional $200-300 in parts and labor. My request for a replacement tranny was declined.

This is curious, since the service writer told me that the BMW rep specifically requested the tech to check shaft alignment as a possible cause. When I asked if the alignment checked out OK and that my casing was "good" I was told they would check alignment upon reassembly. Huh? He said the rep now says that since my tranny went 28000 miles that the alignment must not be the cause. He says that alignment issues cause failures in the 6000-8000 mile range.

Does anyone know how many / which bearings "have" to be pressed out to replace the input shaft vs. those that might be replaced simultaneously as "good measure"? (i.e. bearings that could remain undisturbed for a typical input shaft R&R).

FWIW, the service writer mentioned that the BMW rep sent a list of things he wanted checked for cause. The only other one I know of was clutch hub hardness.

 

If you let your dealership present your cause, you appear to be screwed. The problem is either normal wear and tear, or an unusal factory defect. There ain't no "in between's" as far as I'm concerned. There are several threads on this forum that will tell you how to check the case alignment using the pins and a dial indicator. Physically remove the parts from the dealership, take it to an independent, and have THEM document the alignment or misalignment. (I'd have to call around; maybe some folks on this forum can help provide references to a machine shop or good cycle repair independent). If there's no alignment problem, again, then you're screwed.

 

If you can document an alignment problem, you need a new transmission, or at least a new case, as well as all the other parts required to repair the spline gears. I'd demand BMW Motorrad pay for parts and labor, based on your documentation of BMW's defect and the nearly-established-fact that it's a systemic factory defect in multiple bikes.

 

Finally: If you haven't already done so, contact Customer Relations at 800-831-1117. Ask to speak with the Manager. I have, and he's aware of the apparent case alignment issue. I'd tell him where your current efforts have taken you, which is basically, into the hole financially with a bike you can't ride. If he can help you, great. If not, tell him you will pursue other legal options available to you, and let his imagination run wild. (What a good class action attorney could learn in the "discovery" phase of a law suit boggles the mind, let alone the "60 Minutes" guys.)

 

But since you just want your bike fixed, and you're not a public advocate, just ask the State of California legal system for relief. Take the documentation and file a suit in small claims court, along with the anidotal evidence in this forum. You don't have to be a big industry lawyer to use the evidence I've seen on this forum to convince a California judge that the "little guy" is getting screwed by BMW Motorrad. And, if BMW Motorrad actually fights the "little guy" in a small claims court setting, they'll just be inviting a class action suit.

 

That's what I'd do, but then I've done a lot of stupid stuff in my life just because it seemed to be the right thing to do. That's how I made my $millions... not.

 

He says that alignment issues cause failures in the 6000-8000 mile range.

 

He's blowing smoke out his a**. He wants your bike back in one piece and out of his garage. He couldn't support or document that claim; how many spline failures has he seen, and absent some sort of BMW service bulletin, how could he know how many BMW R-Series bikes have failed splines at < 6000 miles, versus all those > 6000 miles, versus 6000-8000 miles.

 

That service manager will say anything to get your out of his hair, including making you pay for it. As soon as I got my bike out of that service department, I'd burn it before I'd take it back there.

[DogGone]

It seems they are trying to get you to pay for their experimentation. If the bearings need to be replaced, why aren't they doing it under warranty?

 

It sounds like a shotgun approach. Good luck.

 

pete

[Eckhard Grohe]

There are 2 companies that make a portable measurement machine that could be brought to the bike and the alignment could be measured while it is apart. These machines are quite accurate, 0.002 inches. The companies are called FARO and the other is ROMER. Look them up on the web, find their local rep and maybe he can steer you to a some one who does service work. Talk to this fellow and you may be able to convince them to come out to the bike and inspect the alignment for a nominal amount. Maybe you can convince the rep to do a demo and measure the parts for you.

[nrp]

I was thinking it had been a few weeks since the last spline failure!

 

If we had manufacturing prints of the engine block and the transmission case, yes you could use the above exotic machines at considerable expense to make measurements to confirm the print conformance and hence derive the runout between the engine and the transmission. But you probably don't have either print, and there is really no reason to make a major $$ project out of measuring the part conformance.

 

You simply need to measure the runout between your old crankshaft rotational axis and the old transmission input axis. You can most easily do this with a dial test indicator mounted on a crank extension, reading the input bearing housing bore while the crank is rotated as I described elsewhere. Recognize that errors could be manufactured into either part, but all you care about is that the cumulative net error is small.

 

There is no practical way that I can see to measure the runout once the transmission is assembled. Don't let them put it together until you have this runout information!

[KyleD]

Final (I hope) update: I got my bike back today. The input shaft and bearings, and all rotating clutch parts, were covered under warranty. I paid a little extra to have the other transmission bearings replaced at the same time. The bike passed inspection on the ride home - shifts good (really no change from before) and clutches great. Two year unlimited mileage warranty on replaced parts.

 

I did not get any usable information from the dealership regarding the cause of failure. Despite repeated requests about alignment and runout measurements, all i was told was that it checked OK. There was a comment on the service order that the BMW rep ordered a rebuild vs. replacement since the failure occurred after 6000-8000 miles of use.

 

I appreciated my RT for what it is soon after I hopped back on. I intend to ride it like nothing happened, then inspect it again myself in about 20 months.