My splines too?!?! Arghhh

[KyleD]

My buddy Jim and I took advantage of a little rain in God's country to check and lube our splines. His an early '02 with about 40k, mine an '04 with 28k. HIs - fine, mine - NOT.

 

I would post a pic if I could, but they look the same as others posted. The clutch hub splines are worn to sharp knife edges and the transmission input shaft has uneven wear that has eaten into about 1/3 of width of each tooth.

 

There seems to be traces of the original lube left on the clutch hub and at the edges of the mating area, but none in the meshing area of the teeth.

 

My question is - how to go forward from here? M y options seem to be:

 

1. Inform my dealer (Marin BMW) of what I found and ask for their help.

 

Of course, I want a new transmission or input shaft, and a new clutch. But, will they concede that it has failed and deserves warranty replacement? Will they just give me the parts? Will they give me a hard time for ripping into a bike under warranty?

 

2. Put it back together and ride it either:

a. as is and hoping for a qualified failure within the warrnaty period, or

b. with a new clutch and freshly lubed splines - hoping for the best, or

c. something else???

 

I don't have the capability to check shaft to casing alignment, but I can't think of any other cause for my premature wear. I am looking for advice on how to approach and negotiate with my dealer/BMW and what what my goals should realistically be.

 

By the way, we did the two bikes side by side and the disassembly was easy. Our reference was the official BMW service manual printed off CD.

[Tom R.]

Wow. As the owner of a 2003 R1150RT with 25,000+ miles, I always cringe when I read threads like yours.

 

I am confident you will get replies from some of the more experienced folks on this board but if I was acting alone I would talk with the folks at Marin BMW and see where that leads you. I'm thinking that the sooner they know about what you observed the better off you will be.

 

Good luck and keep us posted!!!

[John in VA]

Sorry to hear about this. Stories like these make me worry that I may be riding a time bomb.

 

I don't see how a DIY inspection disassembly could void a warranty on obviously worn splines. I would photograph everything thoroughly, call a couple of dealers to explain the situtation and have the bike towed to the one who wants your warranty business. Email them photo evidence first, if necessary.

 

If the failure and damage are that obvious upon inspection, it cannot be in BMW's interest to make you button it back up and wait until the splines fail on the road (which they WILL do) -- with possible catastrophic consequences.

 

Especially on such a new bike, I would insist on nothing short of a new case/transmission assembly.

 

Please keep us posted.

[DogGone]

I'd say contact them right now, and just tell them what you told us. They can't say that dissassembling the bike caused the wear, but they might say, 5000 miles down the road, that you incorrectly re-assembled the bike, and that caused the wear.

 

This is actually my plan, to have the bike inspected by an independant mech at aroung 33,000 miles, and then go to the dealer with any problems.

 

Or you could just put the thing back together, find out what symptoms you need to complain about in order to get them to look at the splines, and act shocked when they tell you they are shot.

 

Because of the trust I have in my fellow man, I'd go with the truth.

 

Pete

[KyleD]

Update: I talked to Cary of Marin BMW this morning. Unfortunately, my only option sems to be to reassemble the bike and take it in for a trouble report. He says BMW does not have any recommendations for spline lubes, and that the clutch (hub included) is not typically a warranty replacement item. He advised me to document the problem with digital photos and detailed measuremenst of the spline wear, then reassemble the bike and ride it in with copies of all service records in hand. While he didn't assure me that their subsequent disassembly and inspection would result in warranty coverage by BMW, I have faith that they will agree that my wear is abnormal. He told me the responsibility of proving a problem to BMW is theirs. He also told me that he knows of three other R bikes that experienced this problem. I would have thought there would be more.

 

I got the feeling that he felt it would have been better if I had not disassembled the bike myself. However, I then would not have known about a problem until shifting became significantly worse or the splines stripped completely. I wish BMW would at least acknowledge the instances of premature wear and failure so that dealers and owners could openly discuss problems and concerns.

 

I understand why any shop would not want to take on a bilke in parts. I am not sure why I couldn't just show the problem to the shop manager prior to reassembly so that they could see first hand what it really looks like. Wouldn't that be the best way to assure themselves that the problem was real (vs. my claim, photos, and measurements)? Has anyone else had parts in hand and been faced with this issue?

[beemerman2k]

Just last night on my way home from work I came across an '04 GS Adventure rider in the break down lane southbound on the 405. He was right at the 101/405 interchange, which is a very dangerous place to breakdown as the breakdown lanes are very thin and 8 lanes of traffic are flying by. I learned recently that this is the most busy highway interchange in the nation!

 

Anyhow, I pull over to see if he needs any help, and he tells me something in his drivetrain went. He managed to hobble to the spot he was in. His bike has 34K miles on it. He also told me that BMW roadside assistance was NOT coming to get him, so he'd have to call AAA. Not a happy guy to be sure.

 

Think these bikes have a drive train issue?

[Bob Palin]

He advised me to document the problem with digital photos and detailed measuremenst of the spline wear, then reassemble the bike and ride it in with copies of all service records in hand. While he didn't assure me that their subsequent disassembly and inspection would result in warranty coverage by BMW, I have faith that they will agree that my wear is abnormal.

Bear in mind that you will probably have to guarantee payment for the shop to tear down the bike and inspect. I just went through this at SLC BMW, it was an $1100 gamble and even then I would still have a broken bike. Fortunately mine worked out OK and the warranty paid.

[russell_bynum]

It's a really good thing we all just imagine these problems, and they're all just "internet hype". It would suck if this was happening to actual people with actual motorcycles.

 

 

Sorry to hear about this, Kyle. I don't know what I'd do if I was in your shoes. If they're that bad this soon and you can see original lube on the thing (i.e. it isn't bad because they forgot to lube it at the factory), it isn't likely to be any better when they replace the input shaft and the clutch.

 

Damn, this really sucks. Basically, you're going to have to put your money (Like Bob said, ~$1100) on the line in the hopes that Marin is able to convince BMW that this is a problem that needs to be fixed. Even then, chances are they'll just replace the worn parts (input shaft and clutch) and send you on your way.

 

Like I said...it sure is a good thing that this isn't really a problem.

 

[peterbulgar]

Kyle, sorry to hear of your troubles.

 

Many years ago BMW Marin was my dealer, but the shop has changed hands a couple of times since then. As far as I know they still have a good reputation, however, so they will probably do their best to resolve your situation.

 

I'm sure that the reason you went to the trouble of tearing into the bike to inspect the splines was that you had occasional trouble downshifting, right? Think hard now.

 

If the shop wants the bike assembled and ridden in, then that's probably what you will have to do. They may want to ride the bike and evaluate if there is a shifting problem that would warrant a teardown. If they do not think there is a problem, then you will probably have to pay for the inspection, which will not be cheap. On your dime or theirs, once they have the bike apart they will see the same thing that you did. If your description was accurate, then the issue should be resolved under warranty, including the inspection teardown.

 

Worst case would be that you pay for an inspection and the shop says that the wear is normal and that no work is required. Then you are stuck with a bike in which you will probably not have much faith. The best you can do in that situation would be to go for the extended warranty when your original three year warranty is due to expire - that is still an option.

 

Please keep this thread updated whenever you have more to report. The more I learn the happier I am with my extended warranty.

peter '73 R75/5, '04 R1150RA (24K miles)

[smiller]

Damn, this really sucks. Basically, you're going to have to put your money (Like Bob said, ~$1100) on the line in the hopes that Marin is able to convince BMW that this is a problem that needs to be fixed. Even then, chances are they'll just replace the worn parts (input shaft and clutch) and send you on your way.

Seconded on the sucking. You are the victim of a manufacturing defect... pure, simple, and undeniable. I can see why the dealer may not want to deal with a disassembled bike, but beyond this the repair costs should be 100% covered.

 

Is it possible for the dealer to submit the pics to BMWNA and get a determination in advance?

[nrp]

Did you have fretting debris (looking like rust or thin coating of black dirt etc) around the spline-clutch interface or inside the clutch bell housing? I'm speculating that might be a good way to evaluate a bike by simply looking in thru the starter opening. It was someone elses idea.

 

You need a runnout measurement mounting your transmission front cover & the bell housing to the engine, mounting a dial indicator on the crankshaft and rotating the crank slowly. This should define the manufacturing error for warranty purposes. But I guess you already know that.......

 

Guys who have been there - How hard is it to do this? It's sick to have to put it together to have the dealer wallpaper the problem for a few miles.

 

Someone elses idea of offering custom offset alignment pins tailor made to a specific runnout measurement error from above would be an economical solution. I'm sure a lot of us could make them - heck even my old Logan lathe could do it. We just need a way to make that measurement.

 

 

I agree - it sucks!

[SWB]

Think these bikes have a drive train issue?

 

Hmm.. anyone know if "60 minutes" is having a slow news week? I'm beginning to think that BMW needs some publicity "help". Just kidding: The only thing that may get BMW to move on this after perhaps a decade of dithering will be a sharp drop-off in resales to existing BMW owners. BMW seems like today's version of a European "Harley" (back in the 70's). The German company is so arrogant about their product that they don't feel a need to respond to their owner base. The market will correct the problem.

 

In fact, "market forces" have already moved me. I've decided against buying another used BMW. I had set my sights on a low-mile 2004 as a replacement for my current 2001 RT(P). It's just too risky an investment. I'm going to R&R my clutch, fix whatever else I find, and ride the one I've got for another year or two, and then starting shopping Honda ST's and Yamaha FJR's (new or low-mile near-new).

 

Kyle: My first thought was to loan the bike to "Bounce" Bynum for a track day, and let him "finish" the problem. It'd be tough to deny the problem with all the broken metal pieces falling out of the rear end. But, since you contacted BMW already, it's too late for that.

 

Good luck with the repairs. I'd use the digital photo's to nail BMW's hide to a wall, attorney in hand if necessary. Maybe there's a independent agent (machine shop, independent dealer?) who can verify the transmission/clutch/rear drive "run out" measurements to ensure that these components are in alignment post-repair.

 

And, I'm not sure I'd buy the extended warranty. BMW should re-warranty the powertrain for 36K miles as part of this settlement. This is going to sound a bit extreme, but if you think about it, BMW will not want to "go to court" about this. That leads to nasty legal things like public "discovery", which could force BMW to reveal failure statistics on transmission/final drives on their BMW R-Series bikes.

 

But I'm mostly just "B.S.'ing" here. Get them to fix it, and then get back to riding.

[russell_bynum]

Kyle: My first thought was to loan the bike to "Bounce" Bynum for a track day, and let him "finish" the problem. It'd be tough to deny the problem with all the broken metal pieces falling out of the rear end.

 

I've stretched my throttle cables pretty good trying to keep Kyle in sight...I don't think he'd need my help with this one.

[KyleD]

Umm, Russell... I don't think you're helping my case with BMWNA.

 

I did not see any sign of fretting or accumulation of shavings or debris. With the mandate to reassemble and submit for diagnosis I have decided to not even pull the clutch plate out for inspection. But even the housing is clean, very little clutch dust.

 

I have taken photos, documented measurements of wear, and compiled my records (all self-serviced, but far more than recommended minimums). All I have to show for maintenance is my notations on the periodic inspection page from the manual, and sales reciepts for parts and fluids. I really don't think this should be an issue though, but I was asked.

[nrp]

" But even the housing is clean, very little clutch dust."

 

Maybe my theory of misalignment exceptions is all wet - although the inside of my housing @ 18000 miles was pristine. There was no clutch dust. There was no sign of distress near the spline either. Come to think of it there wasn't much sign of it ever even having been greased on original assembly..........

[Stan Walker]

I have taken photos

 

So can you post them now?

 

Stan

[DBG]

Spline, splines, splines!!!! I recently asked on another thread on this site about us all collectively getting toghther and mass mailing BMW about the spline issue, not just the unfortunate that have had them but every frigging red blooded American, British, Canadian, and Anzac RT owner that views this site. Come on, Might makes right, always has and always will. Sure the meek with bad splines will inherit the earth, but I just want to ride on it - worry free. Any ideas! DBG

[DogGone]

Nahhh,

 

If it wasn't splines it would be abs, or wheel bearings, or ...

 

pete

[nrp]

Wheel bearings are cheap to fix & they give plenty of warning. You can still get home with an ABS failure. Premature spline failure has essentially no warning, it isn't convenient or cheap, and you can't get home when it happens.

 

It is apparently a manufacturing quality issue - although I still suspect with a fairly small fraction of the bikes. The shame of it is not admitting it nor coming up with a fix to prevent it from rehappening.

[DogGone]

My point was just that there would always be something to occupy the number one worry position.

 

pete

[russell_bynum]

My point was just that there would always be something to occupy the number one worry position.

 

pete

 

Yes, but wouldn't it be nice if that position was occupied by something that doesn't cost >$2500 to fix and will leave you stranded in the middle of nowhere with no warning no matter how diligent you are with your maintenance?

[DogGone]

My point was just that there would always be something to occupy the number one worry position.

 

pete

 

Yes, but wouldn't it be nice if that position was occupied by something that doesn't cost >$2500 to fix and will leave you stranded in the middle of nowhere with no warning no matter how diligent you are with your maintenance?

 

Oh, now what fun would that be? You can't get all worked up into a frenzy about something that doesn't leave you stranded in the middle of nowhere (how does it know?) and cost you thousands of dollars (except for the ones under warranty).

 

I mean really, could we work ourselves into a proper fit if, say, our valve stems were prone to leaking if the bike sat for too long? Or the heated handgrips failed regularly?

 

Nope, we need the threat of a sudden, catastrophic, life threatening failure hanging over our heads, preferably with an element of callous corporate greed to get full value out of our misery.

 

... now, about those pnuematic tires!

 

pete

[peterbulgar]

Absent anything official from BMW (beyond the statement that there is not a problem) the best theory is that an unfortunate combination of manufacturing tolerances causes a misalignment between the crankshaft and transmission input shaft that, because of a marginal design to begin with, results in premature spline failure. Probably only a small percentage of machines will be affected. Most owners will reach the magic 80-100K mile mark before they have a problem. (I have a problem with the fact that people seem to think that it is OK for such a basic part to fail at 100K miles, but I seem to be in the minority.) For a few happy owners the manufacturing tolerances will be such that they will have perfect alignment, and their grandchildren will be riding the bike 60 years from now with the same transmission.

 

For the vast majority of owners who will never have a problem, or who are confident that they never will, this endless spline discussion probably seems annoying and pointless. For those of us who have had a problem, or who have 25K on our '02 or '04 oilhead and are a little concerned about setting off on a long trip without some reassurance that we are riding a timb bomb, then we can't get enough information.

 

Any chance that a sub-category for "splines" could be added under "wrenching"?

[Stan Walker]

Any chance that a sub-category for "splines" could be added under "wrenching"?

 

Could that go right next to surging, and final drives, PTR, etc?

 

Sometimes I think that BMW stands for BITCH, MOAN, and WHINE. <sigh>

 

Of course if my splines had been bad...... I'd be right there too!!!!!

 

Stan

[DogGone]

Any chance that a sub-category for "splines" could be added under "wrenching"?

 

Could that go right next to surging, and final drives, PTR, etc?

 

Sometimes I think that BMW stands for BITCH, MOAN, and WHINE. <sigh>

 

Of course if my splines had been bad...... I'd be right there too!!!!!

 

Stan

 

 

Stan, I can't believe I hadn't heard that one before

 

I think bmw dealers should be authorized to distribute prozac.

 

pete

[smiller]

Pete you know if you are ever looking for a career change you might want to look into working for Customer Service or tech support for BMWNA. I think you'd do well there.

[DogGone]

Yeah, I'm a real people person.

 

anyway, my current job suits me well. I deal with cold hard numbers and people who understand them. Emotion has no place in engineering.

 

pete

[smiller]

Emotion has no place in engineering.

 

And if you worked for BMW that's what you could tell an angry customer who just had his splines fail for the third time! (That and to go buy some Prozac.) You're a natural I tell ya!

[tio168]

Sorry about the spline Kyle. Looks like its the classic case of lubrication failure or perhaps lack of lube in the splines at the factory assembly stage. I would put it all back together and bring it back to the dealer and complaint of "tranmission slack" and let them take on from there.

[Ken/OC]

Any chance that a sub-category for "splines" could be added under "wrenching"? Could that go right next to surging, and final drives, PTR, etc?

 

And add "measuring oil level." Other thoughts: Oil usage, vibration, cost of service, comparisons with FJR... We could have quite a sub-menu!

[Stan Walker]

Emotion has no place in engineering.

 

I'm truly sorry to hear that.

 

I guess I'll quit striving to be the best at what I do, to be proud of my work. I'll try to change and quit caring about the hundreds of thousands of people who use the medical products I've helped develop. Maybe I'll no longer get a tear in my eye when I hear about someones life I've helped change, or perhaps even saved.

 

In a pig's eye!!!!!

 

Stan Walker

Sr. Principal Software Engineer

Medtronic Corporation.

[David]

Emotion has no place in engineering.

 

I'm truly sorry to hear that.

 

I guess I'll quit striving to be the best at what I do, to be proud of my work. I'll try to change and quit caring about the hundreds of thousands of people who use the medical products I've helped develop. Maybe I'll no longer get a tear in my eye when I hear about someones life I've helped change, or perhaps even saved.

 

In a pig's eye!!!!!

 

Stan Walker

Sr. Principal Software Engineer

Medtronic Corporation.

 

Please don't quit. You've had a profound influence on my wife, who is an insulin-pump depedent diabetic.

[Stan Walker]

Please don't quit. You've had a profound influence on my wife, who is an insulin-pump depedent diabetic.

 

Not a chance that I would quit! I moved to Calif. to continue my relationship with this company, and I don't even like Calif.

 

If 30 years ago someone had told me that the satisfaction that comes from helping people would become so important to me, I wouldn't have believed them. I would have been wrong.

 

The next couple of years are going to be exciting times for anyone using an insulin pump.

 

I'm sorry for stealing this thread, we can go back to discussing splines again.

 

Stan

[DogGone]

Emotion has no place in engineering.

 

I'm truly sorry to hear that.

 

I guess I'll quit striving to be the best at what I do, to be proud of my work. I'll try to change and quit caring about the hundreds of thousands of people who use the medical products I've helped develop. Maybe I'll no longer get a tear in my eye when I hear about someones life I've helped change, or perhaps even saved.

 

In a pig's eye!!!!!

 

Stan Walker

Sr. Principal Software Engineer

Medtronic Corporation.

 

Stan, it's fine for emotion to be the driving force behind why you do what you do. But you don't let emotion change the facts or rearrange the numbers.

 

You might really want something to work a particular way, but if your research and testing don't prove that out you don't change or ignore the numbers.

 

Look at the smoking gun thread where Mark talks about his experience. He tells what he encountered, how he got the facts he got, and what he did to correct what he perceived to be the problem.

 

He even went so far as to poijt out that he really didn't even know if this misalignment was the root of the problem.

 

No Bitching, Moaning or Whining. He made no sweeping generalizations. He experienced a failure, found a possible cause, corrected the problem, and commenced testing.

 

A calm, orderly, intelligent, non-emotional response.

 

pete

[mountainred]

Cycle specialties in Modesto has taken good care of me when I had warranty issues (complete rebuild at 13000miles). It wouldnt hurt to give John a call @ 209 524 2955. Is it ok to give this kind of info on this site?

[KyleD]

I reasembled the bike and rode it in to the shop on friday. Upon viewing the photos the shop manager acknowledged the wear and told me she would contact the BMW area rep to seek approval for replacement under warranty. She mentioned that my records package would help support the claim. I find this interesting because none of the recommeded services have anything to do with the problem at hand. However, I am encouraged by their response and attitiude. I should hear something early this week about what comes next.

[smiller]

She mentioned that my records package would help support the claim. I find this interesting because none of the recommeded services have anything to do with the problem at hand.

 

That seems to show that she has absolutely no understanding of the problem since as you note, no maintenance you could have done (or failed to do) could have caused this problem. But hey, they don't have to understand it... just as long as they support you...

 

Good luck!

[JamesW]

Kyle, I have been following this thread with interest and could you answer a few questions for me about your riding style? For example, do you do a lot of stop and go riding and do you regularly accelerate rapidly from a complete or near complete stop? Also, do you when coming to a stop down shift and let out the clutch in each gear as you slow down or do you disengage the clutch and simply click all the way down through the gears just before you stop? To sum it up would you consider yourself to be an agressive rider? Oh,and how well do you synchronize or match engine RPM to your speed before engaging the clutch?

 

I have some theories of my own concerning these spline failures. I believe regular spline lubrication will have no affect or retard spline failure at all, not even a little bit. When a particular motorcycle needs clutch replacement then at that time the splines should be lubricated and all parts cleaned and inspected in a manner consistant with good workmanship, simple as that.

 

To tell the truth I think that a large percentage of these failures relate to the kind of riding environment the subject motorcycle is exposed to. For example, a motorcycle that spends its life riding the back roads of Wyoming will probably never have a spline wear issue as opposed to a bike that is forever used to play stop light bingo in say, one of the congested areas of California.

 

Well, for what little it's worth just my 2 penneys worth.

[peterbulgar]

JamesW wrote:

"To tell the truth I think that a large percentage of these failures relate to the kind of riding environment the subject motorcycle is exposed to. For example, a motorcycle that spends its life riding the back roads of Wyoming will probably never have a spline wear issue as opposed to a bike that is forever used to play stop light bingo in say, one of the congested areas of California."

 

I've followed the various spline wear/failure threads on this and other forums, and, while there is no smoking gun that points to a single reason for the failures, there does seem to be very strong indications that the following are true:

1) The design of the clutch disk and input shaft spline interface is marginal in that it depends on perfect alignment of those components for the system to work properly and for a long time.

2) That quality control at the factory is probably not catching the misalignment.

3) That unfortunate combinations of production tolerances are what lead to misalignment, which would explain the seemingly random nature of these problems.

 

As with any marginal design (or even a good design), high stress or abuse will lead to premature failures. However, many riders on this and other boards claim perfect splines after 60-80 thousand miles. These are people who say they use their bikes for track days, commuting, and hard riding with heavy loads.

 

The spline failure shows up more often on this board, which has mostly RTs, than another board I frequent, which is composed primarily of Roadster owners. This would seem to lend credence to the theory that the design is not up to the task, and that the heavier RT, which is more likely to carry a heavier load as well, will fail more often and sooner. Or, perhaps there are just more people on this board who put more miles on their bikes.

 

The driveline on a bike that spends it's life commuting in San Francisco will have a shorter life than one on a bike that racks up the miles on the interstates, but neither one should fail at 20K miles. I think that the type of riding and the riding environment can be exacerbating factors in the driveline issue, but that the overwhelming factor that will determine whether or not you have a failure is the luck of the draw as to how good the alignment is when the bike comes from the factory.

Peter '73 r75/5, '04 R1150RA

[Redbrick]

It's like waiting for a bomb to drop.....Not all are going to have a spline problem but there is definitely a big problem with some BMW drive lines, alignment or whatever......Does my wife's '04 1150 have a hand granade in it?...When is it going to go off?...Warranty runs out in June....Sure makes one think twice before getting another one......

 

Phil..........Redbrick

[smiller]

but that the overwhelming factor that will determine whether or not you have a failure is the luck of the draw as to how good the alignment is when the bike comes from the factory.

 

While we don't know that for sure that does seem likely to be the case from all I've read here. It seems that the early assumption that lack of lubrication was behind the spline failures may have been wrong, and I know that in my case (and several others I've seen reported) the splines looked great at high mileage (>50k) with no maintenance even though they were bone dry. I'm not sure that lack of lubrication is so much of an issue and perhaps BMW is right when they say that no spline lubrication is requited as a part of normal PM... seems like maybe it isn't such a big deal if everything is aligned properly at time of initial assembly. I suppose if alignment is poor then extra lubrication might delay the inevitable but it may well be that lack of lubrication in itself was ever really the culprit here.

[Ken H.]

It's like waiting for a bomb to drop.....Not all are going to have a spline problem but there is definitely a big problem with some BMW drive lines, alignment or whatever......Does my wife's '04 1150 have a hand granade in it?...When is it going to go off?...Warranty runs out in June....Sure makes one think twice before getting another one......

 

Phil..........Redbrick

Keep in mind that a small % of BMW riders hang out here and a small % of them have spline issues. Odds are in your favor of having 200,000 trouble free miles.

[JamesW]

Ken, I agree totally with you and I wouldn't let this thing about drive train failure (splines) influence my decision to buy one of these machines at all. I know it probably sounds like I work for BMW but I really think the common denominator here is the environment in which the machine is operated and the manner in which it is operated in this environment.

[Ken H.]

It's like waiting for a bomb to drop.....Not all are going to have a spline problem but there is definitely a big problem with some BMW drive lines, alignment or whatever......Does my wife's '04 1150 have a hand granade in it?...When is it going to go off?...Warranty

[KyleD]

I ride like the little old lady from Pasadena. I never exceed the posted limit. All turns are slow in and slow out. I coast to a stop in sixth gear and shift down one gear at a time matching revs with immaculate perfection, each shift a quiet little snick into gear, using just a tad of compression braking in conjunction with perfectly harmonized use of the beatifully servo-enhanced fully-linked antilock brakes.. I accelerate from a stop with the lightest touch of throttle and precision clutch engagement, accelerating calmly through the gears with silent and smooth upshifts at precisely 4450 rpm. I never ride in city traffic and I never ride in any twisties. My body weight is perfectly matched with my BMI, and I never carry a pillion or put anything in any of the three hard cases. My BMW and I share an intrinsic harmony of spirit that obligates me to treat it with the utmost of respect and pure love. I would never do anything like Sweeper Madness or Skaggs Springs Raceway on my baby. No no, not me.

[2wheelterry]

JamesW wrote:

I've followed the various spline wear/failure threads on this and other forums, and, while there is no smoking gun that points to a single reason for the failures, there does seem to be very strong indications that the following are true:

1) The design of the clutch disk and input shaft spline interface is marginal in that it depends on perfect alignment of those components for the system to work properly and for a long time.

2) That quality control at the factory is probably not catching the misalignment.

3) That unfortunate combinations of production tolerances are what lead to misalignment, which would explain the seemingly random nature of these problems.

 

It’s often the case where a combination of factors or flaws coincides and leads to a failure. In this instance the alignment seems to reoccur as a suspected cause. Secondly, there appears to be a harness issue as the input shaft fails before the clutch disk. Maybe other issues also contribute. Unfortunately, without a true failure analysis, we can only speculate. Fortunately, as Ken points out this is only occurring in a small number of our population.

[TPadden]

I really think the common denominator here is the environment in which the machine is operated and the manner in which it is operated in this environment.

Damn - I think you have it - they have all been ridden on the street. Keep them in your garage and the problem goes away!

[JamesW]

That's exactly where mine is (in garage) what with this never ending rain here in the Pacific North Wet.

[Couchrocket]

As another owner of an 04 RT w/ 21k on the clock, which has had a burned valve at 15k, and mysteriously warped rotors at 18k (not covered under warranty to the tune of a few hundred bucks) -- I'm sure glad I have a shaft drive and don't have to mess with a messy O-ring chain on top of my other woes! Barf...... gag.... puke on shoes.

 

I know the raw numbers are still very small as a % of the RT's out there... but this ain't exactly confidence inspiring for a guy who rides 99% alone, and often in the boonies of "Far North" CA.

 

Sure hope mine explodes with less than 36k on the clock and before my warranty expires in September, and somewhere where there is cell phone service.

 

Come on, some of you guys out there with 03 and 04 RT's with two hundred and fifty thousand kazillion trouble free miles get on here and make us all feel better... PLEASE!

 

I can say with honesty, and frankly sadness, that my very first BMW has had more trouble in 21k miles than all the other bikes I've owned in my entire life put together. I wish I hated the bike, it would make it easy to get rid of... but I don't hate it -- I like it. Dang. More than that, I like the BMW folk I've met since owning it more than most of the folk I've met through all my riding years.

 

Oh, and Kyle... good luck to you in pursuing the fix.

[K^2]

Dude, now you have to go to confession. I've ridden with you on both those roads. Good luck with the repairs (and with BMW stepping up and doing the right thing).

 

K^2