Chevy VOLT, soliciting info- is it a GO or a dud?

[SuperG]

I was searching to see what they have in store for the 2014 VOLT,

 

One of the top article was this

 

http://-next-gen-chevy-volt-will-be-thousands-of-dollars-cheaper/

 

It will have the Cady ELR as competition...

WOuld it perhaps worth the wait?

 

Also would it be a better seller if Chevy would just take the $2000 cashback as well as rolling the $7500 green credit fed tax credit and reducing the initial cost of the vehicle to around or lower than $30K? I think it would sell.

 

 

[Selden]

I was searching to see what they have in store for the 2014 VOLT,

 

One of the top article was this

 

http://-next-gen-chevy-volt-will-be-thousands-of-dollars-cheaper/

 

It will have the Cady ELR as competition...

WOuld it perhaps worth the wait?

 

Also would it be a better seller if Chevy would just take the $2000 cashback as well as rolling the $7500 green credit fed tax credit and reducing the initial cost of the vehicle to around or lower than $30K? I think it would sell.

Next year's model of most things is almost always cheaper/better, but at some point you have to make a decision, and accept that whenever you do, what you have bought will be old news in 6 months.

 

Re credits, I don't think the tax laws in various states would permit this. Generally, for any credit/rebate (whether tax-based, or commercial), the sales tax is based on the selling price, and then the credit is applied, so any state with a sales tax would not be happy with such an arrangement.

[moshe_levy]

Selden is correct on all counts.

 

Cost will come down as economies of scale are achieved and the technology can be spread out over many platforms and architectures. Right now we're in "early adopter" mode where guys like Michael and myself take the plunge and most people are still afraid to dip their toes in. Think back to the Prius in 2002 - same story. Except the Volt is outselling what the Prius did in its year 2.

 

-MKL

[SuperG]

Exactly, that means in my state that is an other $562 tax (on the otherwise $9000 rebates) that goes to the state.

 

I am also not thrilled that I need to buy buy a 240V charger if I want it to be charged faster than 9-11 hours for a full charge..

Charger are about $500, I could be wrong there.

 

If the public "BLinky" cost $1/hour -assuming it is fast charge- as some one posted earlier-, then it is same as gasoline cost at $4 a gallon.

 

NOT bashing the VOLT here, but trying to add the odds of ownership or purchase.

 

The little things like that holds back the otherwise impulse buy on the VOLT>

[moshe_levy]

>>>>If the public "BLinky" cost $1/hour -assuming it is fast charge- as some one posted earlier-, then it is same as gasoline cost at $4 a gallon.<<<<

 

Most owners like myself charge at home or at work, not on a public station. At home or work at prevailing rates, again, it's about $1.50 for a full charge, i.e., $1.50 takes you approximately 38 miles in your case. $1.50 in gas very rarely takes you 38 miles.

 

>>>>>I am also not thrilled that I need to buy buy a 240V charger if I want it to be charged faster than 9-11 hours for a full charge.. Charger are about $500, I could be wrong there.<<<<

 

Double the voltage, cut the charging time in half. Them's the rules of electricity. You will never get around that, just like a 600+HP V12's owner may not be thrilled that it doesn't get 50mpg. You have to really scale your expectations to reality here.

 

>>>>The little things like that holds back the otherwise impulse buy on the VOLT<<<<<

 

To some, maybe. Others may question some potential customers being extremely pedantic on any EV-specific costs (a charger, for example) while not calculating that cost over the life of the vehicle, or by the same token giving ICE equivalents a free pass on THEIR costs. Routine oil changes, for example, calculated over the life of the car. There are dozens of other examples.

 

In the end as Michael said, we got these cars because we want them. They make us happy for a variety of reasons. Nobody was sitting there with a speadsheet at the dealership calculating fractions of a cent per trip - nobody buys an ICE car that way. Why buy an EV that way?

 

-MKL

[SuperG]

I like to put a closure to my quest re. learning about the VOLT, its functions, inner workings and value.

 

I like to thank all of the owners or non-owner that chimed in with your experience.

 

I would say it is safe to say (for me!)when summarizing:

 

1) it is not for everybody, mostly for those that want the electric vehicle experience. And perhaps are bold to be early testers of what may come in the future.

 

2) not meant as a commuter (see 4) unless your commute is close to 30-40 miles and possible can charge at work for free.

 

3) it is not about fuel efficiency, or about sticking it to the oil producers, it is about the enjoying the electric vehicle experience.

 

4) considering it's initial cost, special charger needed to shorten charge time, and the way the electric and I.C.E engine work, and its gas-mode operation; from a commuter's point of view trying to minimize vehicle and commuting cost, this is not the vehicle to have compared to a civic or a tdi jetta or other fuel sippers.

 

5) It's longevity of its components has not been proven yet, but so far looking good.

 

6) there were some good lease options in 2012, but it seems those went away in 2013. GM's 0% financing is nice.

 

and still a few questions yet.

 

7) ECO friendly? Not sure.I will leave this part blank.

debate about lithium battery making and disposing should be a different tread.

 

8) service: qualified -GM trained service, will tech that can handle the VOLt maybe far and few in between? Because of its new technology when warranty expires will the VOLT drive-train and electronics be only dealer serviceable, and expensive?

 

in conclusion, I am still "VOLT curious", but not yet ready to sign the papers.

[moshe_levy]

 

(Note: That should be "Rogers'" not "Roger's" after Everett M. Rogers, father of the Technology Adoption Lifecycle I studied to death in grad school. Volt owners, at this stage, are innovators. In a year or two, we'll be early adopters. We do the beta testing, and the masses follow us if we're pleased enough. So far, we are.

 

-MKL

[tallman]

Moshe,

 

Lot's of good information.

 

One aside.

I for one bought my last car, and most definitely my next car, with a spreadsheet in the background.

 

I've saved @$8,830 in fuel cost past 100,000 miles based on

current vs previous ICE car.

 

Expect to save @$4,000 over current vehicle w/next ICE car

for 100,000 miles.

That's w/out going diesel, which I would like but seating

options still being explored (what I can fit into/drive comfortably).

 

So for some of us, bottom line is important.

Best wishes.

 

[moshe_levy]

No doubt. I did not mean to imply it's not important. I meant to imply it's rarely the ONLY consideration. It's a mistake many make, comparing some low rent econobox to an EV and trying to quantify some "break even analysis" even as gas prices are in flux and many other variables threaten any such calculation as being iffy, at best.

 

Obviously, all else equal, going from a fuel swiller to a more efficient machine will increase your bottom line. But I believe to most people, many other factors - styling, standard features, handling, performance, quality, comfort, bells & whistles, etc. etc. all come into play also.

 

When you look at Rogers' chart above, the Volt buyer is the Innovator. He's NOT looking at Civics and VW diesels, because they do not satisfy anything that a Volt does. He can afford pretty much anything he wants, within reason. His average income is $175k. He chooses Volt because of the experience, and what it represents to him. To an extent he takes great pleasure in being one of the first on the block with such new technology, and finds excitement in offering his feedback to the manufacturer and the public.

 

This is the same for all products that are new tech. I'm practically a Luddite when it comes to computers, for example. I know how to turn on one and how to type, but that's about it. I'm pretty content with my old one, so long as it works. I'm a Late Majority there. But when it comes to cars, I appreciate what is new, high tech, and in line with what I consider to be laudable goals in terms of politics, morality, environmentalism, and national security.

 

Look around your house and see where you fall on that chart for all the things you consume. That, in itself, is a Masters Level business class assignment.

 

-MKL

[tallman]

If you go to the thread about cars we've owned, you'll see that all of your criteria were met at one time or another wrt styling etc.

 

Now, safe, economical, reliable, and of course fit.

(Not the Honda )

 

BTDT throughout my life as an early adopter.

Not so much anymore.

My car isn't going to impress anyone so I rely on my good looks and great sense of style.

[moshe_levy]

Just to show a quick example of what happens when you shop around:

 

http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?30289-8-Volts-Selected!-4-000-OFF-MSRP-2-000-Rebate-Now-thru-2-28-13-Leasae-for-185p-m

 

These deals are posted each month at the Volt forum. So some of these Volts are discounted to the low-30s. Subtract the fed credit and you're in the mid to high $20s purchase price. Same price as a base Jetta hybrid or Prius. With exponentially higher levels of standard equipment, and much higher MPGs than either of those two cars.

 

See what I mean about fuzzy math?

 

-MKL

[Stir]

Exactly, that means in my state that is an other $562 tax (on the otherwise $9000 rebates) that goes to the state.

 

I am also not thrilled that I need to buy buy a 240V charger if I want it to be charged faster than 9-11 hours for a full charge..

Charger are about $500, I could be wrong there.

 

If the public "BLinky" cost $1/hour -assuming it is fast charge- as some one posted earlier-, then it is same as gasoline cost at $4 a gallon.

 

NOT bashing the VOLT here, but trying to add the odds of ownership or purchase.

 

The little things like that holds back the otherwise impulse buy on the VOLT>

 

Clipper Creek has there excellent 25 amp charger on sale for $600 this month. 120 charging is a joke, even at 12 amps. So yes, you need a 240 charger. I bought two of them. Seems like quite a commitment but I doubt I will ever go back to a gas powered daily driver. The Volt and future cars based on this technology is the only stuff I am going to buy in the foreseeable future.

 

I find the extensive financial break even exercises amusing. No one does that for ANY other car out there. People buy a car purely because they want it and/or they can afford it. The Yukon was 48K and burned fuel at an amazing rate. But I never gave it a thought, it was just the cost of driving that car. BTW, I loved my Yukon.

 

I understand the hesitation about buying a Volt. I was doing similar things thinking about buying a Prius. I was doing the financial analysis mainly because I didn't like the looks or the comfort level of the Prius. My dad has one and when I drove it, I always came away thinking the comfort was lacking. Therefore, I was looking for another factor to make up for that lack of comfort. My wife mentioned the Volt. I have to admit, I kind of ignored her thoughts. Moshe then posted his experiences with the Volt so I went and took a test drive. The car is hands down more comfortable than a Prius. My dad has driven my Volt and now wants one over his Prius. The car is very fun to drive. I live in the mountains and the car hugs the curves very well.

 

When I pulled the trigger on the Volt, I was still a little apprehensive about if I was doing the right thing or not. I can say that after 6 months of ownership, it was a great decision. My wife loves hers as well.

 

I also had a thought the other day, what if the battery loses capacity after 8 years? Well, then it would pretty much be functioning on the level of a new plug in Prius. :-)

[moshe_levy]

Good point Michael.

 

Personally, I think what GM should look into is the Tesla model of customizable battery pack. On the Model S, the customer can choose between three different battery / charger combos, going from shorter range to very long range, as he pays more.

 

The Volt offers FAR more electric range than any of its plug in competition - about 3x what Prius offers, and almost double what Ford's C-Max can do. Perhaps GM can cut the battery pack of the Volt down to 15 miles or so and save a few grand off the sticker price for those customers that don't want / need that much range (e.g., those with shorter commutes).

 

Scaling down Li-Ion batteries is a relatively simple, pretty linear affair. GM may have what it needs to drop the price of the Volt right under its nose.

 

Harder is scaling up - I would gladly pay more for 50-60 miles of EV range, but that's much more of an engineering challenge than scaling down.

 

-MKL

[SuperG]

Harder is scaling up - I would gladly pay more for 50-60 miles of EV range, but that's much more of an engineering challenge than scaling down.

 

-MKL

 

This is the ticket. More miles on EV.

Without getting into "how the female mind works". I can say this.

After I showed my wife the Caddy ERL and the Tesla, I am confident she will never agree to the VOLT>... wait I should never say never.

She was not impressed with the VOLt , I was.

She hated her Honda civic hybrid. She loves the jetta TDI.

 

As of today, she would not have any problem forking out $80K for the tesla. The good think is as of today, I am the financial manager of the household. In about a year or so (if all goes well).. she will be the top earner in the house. And she will have more say in spending.

With sadness I can also say that she will likely not drive a Chevy of any kind once she is top earner. She would not have a problem paying extra $20K for the caddy badge.

Like I said, lets leave out the "workings of the female mind" form this topic.

 

PS: I would also be happier to drive the Tesla, but Tesla as a company scares me a bit. I would need to do research into warranties and longterm vehicle care.

PS2: I would like to get the VOLT, but I just got a BMW 135i for xmas, she would choke me if I would trade the beemer for the VOLT. That turbo straight-6 is addictive. <--Its human magnetism must wear-off first. I was hoping she would give up the TDI jetta for the VOLT>

[moshe_levy]

The Tesla Model S is absolutely gorgeous, and comparing it (closer to $100k) to a $35k Volt is simply not a fair comparison. It's an incredible car. I know a Tesla owner and he is thrilled, to say the least. Tesla has impressed me greatly, as has Elon Musk in general. They just announced they were paying back the DOE loan in full, 5 years early, and opened a beautiful new boutique store right near my parents' house, which I plan to visit very soon. The Model S has won every award there is to win. A very promising vehicle. Whatever she goes with here - ELR or Tesla - I can't see your wife being unhappy. Surely, compared to a Jetta, she will be in heaven either way. I can certainly understand the need to buy "upmarket" if you can afford it - at least at those dealerships (unlike the ham-and-egger brands) you are usually treated like a human being.

 

-MKL

[Sweendog]

Great information, Moshe, thanks for sharing it! I wish we had purchased one of these for my wife, as her commute is 25 miles, so the Volt would conceivably be able to get her there and back on one charge. We're going to be putting solar in the new place too, so I could certainly wire up the garage for 240v.

 

 

[moshe_levy]

Sween, that is my father's situation almost exactly. He had one of the first Volts in NJ, with a commute that is covered completely by one charge. It's now been 2 years for him, and he's purchased gas (I believe) 5 times total. He got so "into it" that he, too, installed solar and now doesn't even pay for the electricity. Pretty incredible stuff. We're working on my mom now, who's been in BMW 5-Series (a new one every 3 years) since 1999. I think I might be able to talk her into an ELR next time around.

 

-MKL

 

PS - One charge averages at 38 miles. You will routinely get more in the spring and summer, and less in the colder months. Below mid-30s F you will start to see range dropping big time, into the high 20s. It's the reverse of a "regular" car - the heater kills the range, and the A/C doesn't do much to it. Exactly the opposite of what we're used to in a traditional car.

[SuperG]

posted a new tread about the new 2013 line of 40+ mile/gallon car line up, interesting read. The VOLT is in there.

 

http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=823992Post823992

 

[OoPEZoO]

looks like Chevy is interested in clearing some of the inventory. I read that they just released some more incentives for the Volt. An extra $4000 off for 2013 models, and $5000 off leftover 2012 models.

 

$7500 off from federal incentives, plus another $3000 off from PA incentives........I might need to start redoing some math

[OoPEZoO]

Prices, they are a droppin'.......GM announces the MSRP for the 2014 Volt will drop by $5000 when they hit showrooms later this summer. Time to start beating on the brass at work about installing a charging station. If I can manage to get that done, it might be a done deal once the PA incentives renew on the first of the year. That would bring it down to around $24500....

 

LINK

 

I'm also interested to see what this does to the resale values for the vehicles that are already on the road.

 

 

[moshe_levy]

Yup. There are a few demos floating around with less than 100 miles (2012 models) for under $25k. Prices will continue to drop as sales go on, and economies of scale are leveraged. It's a wonderful car - I just passed the 1 year mark with mine, summarized here http://www.mklsportster.com/volt/volt1year.htm

 

My lease is up in 11 months, and I fully plan on getting another one, or an ELR if they're not too expensive. My mom, dad, and some coworkers will be joining me when I shop. I'll be bringing upwards of 4 customers to some lucky salesman.

 

-MKL

[OoPEZoO]

Moshe.....question......how is it that you only racked up a little over 11000 miles in a year with a 106 mile daily commute? Were you intentionally keeping miles off of it due to the lease, riding the bike, or do you do a lot of tele-commuting from home?

 

As things are right now, and JUST counting my commute, I believe I could save about $125 a month on gas by driving a Volt versus our current Corolla. That doesn't count the other 12-15k miles of running around we do that would be almost 100% on the battery. The more numbers I run, the more promising things begin to look........especially with the asking price coming down to the range of other replacement vehicles I had been looking at.

[DiggerJim]

The more numbers I run, the more promising things begin to look........especially with the asking price coming down to the range of other replacement vehicles I had been looking at.

That's the key for these things in term of widespread acceptance - really hard to justify something that takes years to see a benefit vs. the old reliable what you know technology/car/etc.

[moshe_levy]

Keith-

 

Yes, I telecommute a bunch, and I do ride to work as well on a semi-regular basis. This allows me to lease, which was an important financial consideration for me.

 

Re Jim's comment he's probably right, but I never got my Volt to save money (although it does) or for the environment, etc. I got it because I wanted to stop buying gas for political considerations. Whatever your reasons are, give it a look-see - I'm really happy with it.

 

-MKL

[lawnchairboy]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-08-06/gm-cuts-chevy-volt-price-by-5-000-to-spur-sales.html

 

 

And they are getting less expensive.

[Fightingpiper]

I picked one up two months ago after my old dodge truck's motor went. Just yesterday I hit 200mpg. Ive used only 9.1 gallons of gas over the last 1830 miles. What I'm saving in gas is about the same as my payment. Very happy with my purchase. I have added one farkle though....

 

 

[moshe_levy]

Nice! That's how it was for some of my corworkers when I did the math for them. The lease payment equaled their old gas bills, and we let them charge free at work - so it's essentially free transportation, in a brand new car. ALL of them are releasing or buying new Volts - they all love 'em. They were skeptical at first, but experience is a powerful thing.

 

-MKL

[Shaolin Master Sergeant]

I don't have a Volt but I do have a BMW Active E which is a beta tester for the upcoming BMW i3 electric. The Active E is fully electric, BTW.

 

As far as $$$$, the initial cost was hard to swallow but that was alleviated by a federal incentive of $7.5k, no state sales tax and cheaper insurance rates.

 

The real money savings comes from the cost of ownership over the long run. My wife drove a 2001 Lincoln LS V8 which costs about $650/month in premium gas and not even factoring in the cost of oil changes and brake pads. The Active E costs us about $50/month in electricity. We hardly use the regular brakes since electric cars use regenerative braking for the most part. Basically tires and wiper blades are your biggest maintenance expenditures. If you have a solar panel, you could conceivably charge the car for free (as a few of our Active E friends do).

 

Driving experience: different from the Volt, obviously, but the Active E and the Honda Fit EV (which my sister-in-law has) are fun to drive, very quiet, vibration free. You can learn to drive using just one pedal which I love. I've had a few Corvette kill stories, a Subaru STi and a BMW 7-series also.

[moshe_levy]

I know a guy with an Active E - loves it. Around here they were ONLY available for lease, a special term of $499 per month with unlimited miles (unusual). His lease term is almost up and he's going to be looking at i3 and Volt.

 

-MKL

[SuperG]

will it still have the $7000 tax credit?

do we know if anything changed on the 2014 model?

I would like to know if they added the manual regen button to activate regen braking on down hills without touching the brakes?

Are they including a 220Volt charger?

If they want sales numbers to go up, GM should offer an irresistible lease 12K miles/yr 36 mo in the $350/mo range. Last time I inquired it was in the $500 range.

[Fightingpiper]

If they want sales numbers to go up, GM should offer an irresistible lease 12K miles/yr 36 mo in the $350/mo range. Last time I inquired it was in the $500 range.

 

I leased mine with $2000 down for $265/mo 15,000/yr. Just have to shop and pit dealers against each other. I had a nice deal but hated the color of the available car so I went to one last dealer. They had the color that I wanted but said they couldn't meet the other dealers offer. I was driving out of their lot on the phone with the dealer that had best deal but ugly color when I saw the salesman running after me. Needless to say I got the color I wanted at a the price I wanted.

Edited August 15, 2013 by Fightingpiper

[SuperG]

what year was your lease?

Early on they had a good lease deal going, as it was mentioned in this tread earlier, but when I inquired (in the spring of this year) the best I got was in the $500 range. I only checked with 2 dealers.

[moshe_levy]

 

>>>will it still have the $7000 tax credit?<<<

 

$7,500, actually.

 

>>>>do we know if anything changed on the 2014 model?<<<<

 

New color choices and trim changes. Nothing significant.

 

>>>>I would like to know if they added the manual regen button to activate regen braking on down hills without touching the brakes?<<<<

 

That already happens on all hybrids automatically. You do not need a button for it. Lift your foot off the "gas" pedal and you regen. Hit the brakes and you regen more, until you exceed some threshold (usually in the panic braking G-force level, or below some set speed like 6mph) at which point mechanical braking takes over.

 

>>>>Are they including a 220Volt charger?<<<<

 

No. Then again, nobody else does either.

 

>>>>If they want sales numbers to go up, GM should offer an irresistible lease 12K miles/yr 36 mo in the $350/mo range. Last time I inquired it was in the $500 range.<<<<

 

You're looking in the wrong places then. I leased two for my coworkers - completed loaded, 12k / 24mo. leases. $46k sticker price. No money down. $285 / mo. Hell, you can't even get a CIVIC for that kind of money. It's the steal of a lifetime. Leftover 2012 Volts are out there for $23-25k, brand spanking new.

 

If you're serious, talk to me offlist. I'll send you in the right direction. Nobody's paying $500 a month for these!

 

-MKL

[Fightingpiper]

what year was your lease?

Early on they had a good lease deal going, as it was mentioned in this tread earlier, but when I inquired (in the spring of this year) the best I got was in the $500 range. I only checked with 2 dealers.

 

Just leased two months ago for a 2013 volt.

[SuperG]

if anyone knows...

what type of electric motor is in the VOLT, brushless DC?

what would a battery replacement cost, today?

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

if anyone knows...

what type of electric motor is in the VOLT, brushless DC?

what would a battery replacement cost, today?

 

The Tesla uses a permanent-magnet syncrhonous AC motor; I'll wager the Chevy Volt does, too. A synchronous AC motor and a brushless DC motor are pretty much the same thing; the difference is in the current going to the stator windings. In the DC motor, that current is switched, whereas in the AC motor, the current varies smoothly over time. The latter allows for a smoothly rotating magnetic field, eliminating the torque pulses you get in a brushless DC motor (most prominent at very low RPM).

[SuperG]

I do not know much about the AC version of brush-less motors, but I use a variety of DC brush-less in my hobby- flying radio controlled helicopters and airplanes.

they replaced the old brushed motors a while back. They are smaller in size more powerful and efficient (specially on light weight lithium-polymer batteries), higher RPM and so simple, nearly indestructible, and can be so cheaply made.

Nothing can fail on them ( if not over heated over loaded) other than the bearing, since no other electrical part touches another.

No electrical contact, just magnets and windings separate from each other.

9 or so poles winding, energized be a speed controlled and each pole is timed just perfectly.

Further, inrunner and outrunner motor can be simply constructed, as in ...I can have the motorshaft rotate or the motor shaft stationary and the housing rotate. depending where we put the magnets.

Sorry for the venting I had to share.... These things are my passion ( well one of them).

 

I have a hard time resisting buying one of these chevy volts.

How can I justify it? I just got a new car and new bike... somebody hold me back please

[moshe_levy]

Why resist it? Just do it! You're at the right time to grab any remaining 2013 leftovers, a situation that will be good for maybe another week or two at most. Most were blown out over Labor Day weekend. A coworker just bought one over said weekend, and paid (all in, including the tax credit) about $3,000 more than a loaded Civic. For a $43,500 full loaded Volt. Lease rates are ridiculously low as well. It's a no brainer!

 

-MKL

[moshe_levy]

PS re the battery back replacement cost, nobody really knows, or cares - since it's covered for 10 years anyway. By then, the cost will have no resemblance to what it costs today.

 

Naysayers used to say the same thing about Prius when it first came out. "Oh, but the battery packs go bad, and when they do, it's $5,000!!" Turns out, they DON'T go bad, they're good for well over a decade and 300-400k miles are not uncommon on Taxi Prius models which are abused - not only that, but replacements as expected now vary from $600 (junkyard special from a wreck with low miles) to $1200 (aftermarket) to about $2400 from Toyota.

 

The same thing will happen with Volt. In fact, the logical folly of nearly any anti-Volt argument can be refuted easily by history (see Prius, example A) or by using common sense (e.g., not taking an R&D investment which pays out over many years and multiple platforms, dividing it by year 1 sales, and calling it a "massive loss.") Politics has a way of making otherwise reasonably intelligent people say some really dumb things, though...

 

-MKL

[mickeym3]

I never even considered an E, firm believer in diesel with the MB Bluetec and a Cummings in the garage but when I saw the i3 it was love at first sight, can't wait to order one, darn sure it will not be as cheap as Volts mentioned here.

 

Waiting for a i3 thread....

[moshe_levy]

I'm excited to see how it turns out as well. Very interesting design.....

 

-MKL

[SuperG]

The battery is very important to me. After bad luck on the hybrid civic; ours died at 120K miles. We were also told not to worry when we bought it. It was $3000 replacement cost + labor form the dealer. This was a nimh battery pack. Texas heat killed it is what I believe.

10 years or 100K miles warranty means nothing to me.

 

We drive 30K. miles / year. Work commute, chores, kids-> daughter ice skating competition - mostly driving to Dallas and Houston for us , + we are about 30 miles from metro Austin.

We can put 100K in a car in 3.5 year easy, then I would be out of warranty.

 

I don't mind replacing the battery if it needed and served its lifetime, but not if it will cost $5000 to put a new lithium battery in it.

My only hesitation at this point (because we would drive it a lot) is with a standard car we have an engine and trans to deal with. Today engines will go 200k miles easy ( most do), trans can last as long in most cases if not abused.

With a car like the volt, We have a gasoline engine, we have an electric motor that propels the car 100% of the time, (the gas engine revs to run the generator). the we have an other.. the 3rd item which is major $$... the battery. Assuming they will work in unison without much trouble.

 

From my continuous interest, as well as the OP of this tread, you can see I have a great interest in this car/technology; I can afford it, but there is something that makes me hesitate.

 

Also the dealers here don't seem to push the left over 2013s, they sell it for the same "discounted" price (to those that do not know that GM drops the price of the 2014 $5000) as the upcoming 2014 which should be out later this month.

 

Initially I figured we could lease and would share the mileage load between two cars, but I think the volt would be used a lot , so lease would not be good for me.

[moshe_levy]

Alright, fair enough. We all know that Honda Civic Hybrids had a host of problems, battery among them (and not getting anywhere near advertised mileage is another problem).

 

The nice thing about the Volt battery - unlike the Prius, Leaf, Civic, et. al. is that it's a very intelligent design in terms of capacity usage and temperature control. Imagine your Civic battery as one dumb lump which is used full to empty and subject to the whims of the weather. If it's hot outside, the battery is hot - same with cold. The interior air is blown over the battery to cool it, and only when the car is on, and that's about it. Same with Prius. Stone age.

 

The Volt, by comparison, always keeps usage limited to (2013+) 10.5KW usable out of ~16KW available - so it's NOWHERE near stressed out by capacity. As far as temp, it's heated AND cooled with a full liquid thermal management system - so if you leave it plugged in as I do when not in use, when it gets really hot, the car (even when not in use) can use wall power to manage temp in the battery to keep it within regulated range. You can hear it whirring away in the garage sometimes on those +95F days, and the overall draw is tiny for the small coolant pump, so even that's not a concern.

 

Anyone who knows anything about batteries knows the #1 enemy is heat. Because the Volt's battery is temp controlled when in use AND WHEN NOT IN USE (assuming you have it plugged in,) AND that the capacity is never even 70% used, my guess here is that the life of this battery will be exponentially higher than any compact hybrid we have seen thus far. Another thing GM got right that most others (primarily due to cost concerns) did not.

 

-MKL

[moshe_levy]

Forgot the link: http://www.myperfectautomobile.com/general-motors/chevy-volt-thermal-management-system.html

 

Compare that to the tiny little fan you have blowing on your civic battery. In terms of thermal management sophistication, it's like comparing a supercomputer to an abacus.

 

-MKL

[SuperG]

that is some pretty cool stuff there.

[lawnchairboy]

I bought a civic hybrid (2003) with NiMH battery in 2007 with 90k+ on the clock. Now has 176k. It just won't die. Still routinely getting 40-44 mpg on regular gas. Oil and tires + one front suspension bushing. Probably the best car I have owned, behind my 73' Pontiac.

Edited September 13, 2013 by lawnchairboy

[moshe_levy]

Right... And the Civic gets middling reviews (at best) from its owners - actually its owners took Honda to court over the MPGs and other issues which weren't as advertised. Volt owners, by contrast, are the happiest in the industry. For any car, at any price. According to Consumer Reports. Says alot. We ain't happy for nothin'!

 

-MKL

[SuperG]

I started this thread a year ago and now bringing it back from the valley of DEATH

Coincidence of Joe's Tesla thread.

Well I inked the contract about 2 weeks ago and purchased one.

Originally wanted to lease it, but here in Texas lease is not in my favor for two reasons.

1: Trading in my Volkswagen TDI, Tax overflow from a trade simply gets swallowed up in a lease with no reduction in lease monthly payment.

2: I do not get the $7500 Federal tax credit.

 

I had the vehicle (2014 model) for 2 days as a demo. I liked everything about it. Purchased one silver with safety package option 1. <-rear back up camera proximity sensor.

what prompted me to purchase THIS car is that my daily driving now consist of 7 mile trip to drop off my 12 year old at school in the morning and same in the afternoon, plus other school activity sport or my hobby food shopping 30 round trip all in town (kind of).

On a fully charged battery 40 mile range displayed for pure electric drive. If I am realistic with my self 90%+ of my drive will be pure electric. No gasoline. When the battery juice runs out gasoline engine /generator yielded us 38-39mpg on our longer drive. But the combined mileage of electric +gasoline is always much higher.

The car drives smooth, silent, quick(yes), instant heat or cold when needed, rear seat folded down - hatch back offers plenty room.

I did haul a piece of pipe 10 foot long with all windows doors closed- from the footwell of the front passenger area to the back of the trunk a 10 foot item will fit.

All batteries are in the center mas of the car sitting low = the car actually grabs the road very well with minimal body roll. 215/55/17 tires - low rolling resistant- grab better then I expected.

new for 2014 is the "hold" feature, preserves battery juice for city stop-and-go driving is a longer hwy drive precedes it. Mountain mode: fires up the engine/generator, charges the battery for extra juice and also provides electricity to the drive motors.

Weather alerts are displayed on the dash, along with weather forecast via satellite. As well as nearby gas prices or movie theater show times. Incoming Text messages are displayed or can be read out via speakers, custom messages can be preprogramed and have it send back as reply with one push of a touch screen. It reads USB flash drives loaded with MP3 music or can stream from smart phone bluetooth.

 

This car is no slouch, in sport mode it gets up and goes 278 ft/lb torque from dead stop. At first "sport mode" was interesting, but now i found normal mode just as good.

 

I have learned a new thing about his car I find it interesting.

Battery 16.5kWh (10.8 usable)

GM takes an interesting and very conservative approach to battery life. Rather than charging and discharging the battery nearly completely as Nissan and Tesla’s EVs do, the Volt will only use the “middle” 65% of the battery. This means that when the display says it is “full,” the battery is really only 85% charged. When it reads empty, the true state of charge is around 35%. Why? Because batteries degrade more rapidly when they are at high or low states of charge. By never operating the battery at these extremes and having an active thermal management system, I expect the Volt’s battery to have a longer life than other vehicles on the market with the same battery chemistry."

 

Purchasing and prices:

A technique I learned from Katy's thread of buying anew car. A member here suggested to pin the dealers against each other.

Truecar.com I had 6 dealers with a wide margin of prices for the same exact car. I did just that once I find the color and option I wanted. Simply said, "match the lowest on my list and we have a deal!

2014 Volt with safety option 1 (including destination fee)$32487 - $7500 federal credit =$24987. Not bad.

 

lowes price on base model I found was

$31170 -$7500 tax credit = $23670

 

the other goods:

my morning school drop off uses 2KW electricity, my electric rate is10cent/KW so cost me $0.20 - 20 cent. a full recharge 10Kw will cost me about $1.

annual maintenance cost will be super low, no trans low engine hour means it won't need much, oil change interval is 2 years (or sooner if lots or gasoline engine time used), first service is at 50K miles, I can't remember what it was in the manual. next is at 100K some coolant flush.

Only tire rotation is required every 6-10K miles.

My annual mileage will be about average 12-15K miles.

Not sure what fuel saving will be, honestly not concerned about that, but I am really enjoy driving this car. Smooth quiet, quick, no stink!

 

A couple of things that are considered negative:

4 seats only (because of the battery location n the center of the car. Rear passenger leg room not the best.

Fortunately for me/us, 95% of the time it is just I and a passenger - my son drop off at school, or wife and i going somewhere. front passenger legroom is good.

 

A really good write up about the 2013 models is here, compares some hybrid & EV vehicles- prius, ford Cmax, Volt.

 

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/07/review-2013-chevrolet-volt-video/

 

 

 

[SuperG]

Sorry... few more things I forgot, but timed out from editing the above post.

 

fully keyless operation, key stays in pocket, doors open or close with push button on door handle or via remote, same for engine start.

keyless remote also allows for starting climate controls to cool or heat car from my office window, or with onstar sattelite and the "mylink" chevy app from my smart phone from anywhere, Onstar free for 3 years.

 

insuring this car cost about the same as our VW TDI, leasing the VOlt would raise the insurance cost because the 300K/100K limits required.

[moshe_levy]

Congrats, my friend!

 

Soon you will learn all the ins and outs of the vehicle. Get yourself a nice 240V charger from Clipper Creek and you will be all set. Preconditioning before you leave, especially in winter, can add a few miles to your stated range.

 

You are correct re GM's using only a small portion of capacity. It seems to be paying off. The first Volts nearing 150,000 miles are starting to report full trouble free operation. 146k on a 2 Year Old Volt

 

-MKL