Chevy VOLT, soliciting info- is it a GO or a dud?

[OoPEZoO]

And who knows if these dopes will even set the car up correctly? Demonstrate all 4 drive modes to you? Explain the proper techniques to maximize efficiency or acceleration? There are a thousand questions. I bet they'll mess them all up. Then at the end of the year, they'll call the Volt a "poor seller" on their lot. Imbeciles.

 

So is this GM deliberately setting the Volt up to fail, or are they just unintentionally dopey about telling dealers how to demo the car? Or is it the dealers themselves who are slacking when it comes to a proper demo, despite having been properly instructed by GM?

 

I could believe the last scenario (slacker dealer). Last summer I test-drove a car (not a Volt) at one dealer, and received precious little education from the salesman riding along with me. Later last fall, I test drove the same car at another dealer, and this time the salesman was very interested in educating me about all of the unique features of the car, ranging from the handling, to the nav system, to exactly how to use the rearview camera to come within a fraction of an inch of a parked car behind me. Night and day difference.

 

 

Mitch......have ya ever had to work on a project designed by a different Engineer who wasn't all that interested in their job? I think this might have a lot to do with it. Different animal, but when I bought my Wrangler I had the same situation. I was asking specific questions about the drivetrain, axles, available gear ratios, lockers....etc. The only thing the sales person seemed to know about was financing options. It was very frustrating. I ended up doing my own research and returning to buy a Wrangler they had on their lot. I wasn't really interested in doing business with them, but they had what I wanted at a price that no one else would match.

[BULLman]

I would agree that it is due to specific sales person.

 

When I bought my last bike (HD) - they only thing those guys knew were HD. Not about different bikes coming out.

 

Come to think of it - most of the time when I am buying a vehicle (car or bike) I know more about it than the sales person - due to the research I did or (bikes) the magazine articles I've read.

[moshe_levy]

I could believe the last scenario (slacker dealer). Last summer I test-drove a car (not a Volt) at one dealer, and received precious little education from the salesman riding along with me. Later last fall, I test drove the same car at another dealer, and this time the salesman was very interested in educating me about all of the unique features of the car, ranging from the handling, to the nav system, to exactly how to use the rearview camera to come within a fraction of an inch of a parked car behind me. Night and day difference.

 

Slacker Dealer, without question. This bears repeating: The owners of this car are a passionate bunch. The Volt commands the highest owner satisfaction of ANY car at ANY price, on the Consumer Reports tabulation. Higher than Porsche 911. Higher than Corvette - these are the two usual winners. This is no accident. Its owners - early adopters, to be sure - are highly educated about the car. They research it to death and are "into it" for a variety of reasons (I have stated mine previously). A second rate salesman, which is what GM (and, really, any "average" brand's dealers) seems to employ overwhelmingly, pours water on a customer's peaked interest rather than igniting a fire. The lowest echelon on the totem pole, in other words, may screw things up royally just the same.

 

I am not a salesman for GM. I have no vested interest in their car, and actually for most of my life have ragged on them without mercy for all of the usual reasons we've all heard 1,000 times. But I love my Volt, and, like most Volt owners, am passionate about what it is and what it represents for American design, manufacturing, and engineering prowess. It is a true breakthrough, in every sense of the word.

 

I can - and I HAVE - walked complete strangers through the entire car and gone over all the features, in depth. I have done the same with coworkers, friends, family - anyone who asks, gets the grand tour and maybe even a test drive in my car. I am certain of no less than 8 sales due to these demonstrations I gave since last July, and there are likely more, but I don't keep up with what strangers wind up buying. I don't make a cent - I don't ask for anything. Because I'm passionate, their interests are ignited even more. That's the key.

 

Look at George. His interest is small and delicate, like a small budding plant shooting out of the earth for the first time. Some imbecile salesman comes and, instead of watering that plant, steps on it before it can bloom. This is the opposite of what a salesman SHOULD do.

 

GM sabotaging its own Volt? I don't think so. Not by a long shot. What engineer would want that after pouring so much work into it? What management wants to wait even longer to recoup such high R&D costs?

 

But GM's dealers? That's another story. They've been stupid forever and nothing's changed. But as I said above, these "Volt Advisers" take this stuff seriously. They call us owners regularly. GM is TRYING to change. It's not an overnight process. A story like George's WOULD get dealt with. And I'm willing to get that process started myself, out of frustration with what he's dealing with. It's probably a bigger deal to me than to him, if only for the aforementioned "passion." I absolutely detest the experience he's had.

 

I'm eager to hear his test drive experiences but honestly, am dreading what he will say the salesman said / did to mess it up.

 

-MKL

[Ponch]

Has anyone looked at or driven the Jetta Hybrid?

[lawnchairboy]

Well Mitch, did your better educated salesman get a sale? I'm guessing no.

[DiggerJim]

Last summer I test-drove a car (not a Volt) at one dealer, and received precious little education from the salesman riding along with me. Later last fall, I test drove the same car at another dealer, and this time the salesman was very interested in educating me about all of the unique features of the car, ranging from the handling, to the nav system, to exactly how to use the rearview camera to come within a fraction of an inch of a parked car behind me. Night and day difference.

I had the same thing happen to me when I was buying my car last year. The first salesman didn't know where the nav DVD was, what some of the options/buttons did, how to load the CD changer (in the benz it's behind a secret door in the dash that raises up and the changer slides forward if you press the button that doesn't look like a button...wicked cool according to my son )...second dealer's salesman knew everything about the car. Guess where I bought it? Not sure I can trust the dealer to train the service people if they can't train the salespeople.

 

[moshe_levy]

Companies need to understand the salesman is the customer's interface with said companies. The salesman represents the company, and is the first and possibly only impression the customer will get. How they allow some of these clowns in the door to begin with is beyond me.

 

-MKL

[Rocer]

Went back to the dealer today during daylight hour and wanted to drive one with some battery power. The dealer had 8 VOLTs in stock, all had dead batteries.

I asked, why? Answer: Everybody just drives them and nobody plugs it in.

then some babel about construction taking place where the charging stations were... bla-bla-bla.

 

I said please plug one in at the service dept, and please call me when one is fully charged. Then I left.

 

Figured out the oil light thingy.

you scroll through the different options with the wheel on the left on the dash near the driver door. The white oilcan light is just one icon among the many that scrolls around and once you select it it will show you the next oil change interval.

It was the white oil can ( to the left, the green eco stuff was lit up (green s center) and navigation icon was next to it to the right.

 

I must say salesman are clueless. Today the one salesman said it does not have a gasoline engine it has a generator. Argggg.

 

Here's a link to GM's advert. for the (Canadian) 2013 Volt. Note that they make reference to "the generator". There's a lot of confusion out there and none of that bodes well for promoting/selling the product. I'm left with the impression that some car companies have already thrown in the towel and are just going through the paces until the subsidies run out.

[Quinn]

This sounds like you trying to buy a Buell at a Harley dealer.

 

------

 

 

[moshe_levy]

I'm left with the impression that some car companies have already thrown in the towel and are just going through the paces until the subsidies run out.

 

Subsidies aren't driving these sales. The average Volt owner - AVERAGE - has an income of $175k. "Throwing in the towel" after billions in R&D is probably not a serious strategic option for any company. They are focused on economies of scale, and it's not an overnight process. What you need to be looking at instead is marketing, or rather, lack of.

 

When I had my Prius in 2008, it was already an 11 year old concept - the Series / Parallel hybrid. 95% of people who asked me about the car had NO idea how it worked, why it worked, whether it plugged in, whether the battery "died" every year requiring expensive replacement, etc.

 

I blame this "misinformation" on Toyota's timid marketing policy of NOT highlighting the technical details, so that mainstream customers think of Prius as "just like a regular car" but with good fuel economy. Works for them, obviously. Prius is enormously popular and profitable after years of being in the red (Japanese long term thinking: take note of this).

 

I am upset with GM for going down this same road. Its commercials are inane, and its marketing totally devoid of the actual features and benefits of the car, relying instead of personal anecdotes of the owners.

 

There is always a fight with products like this between those of us who want high tech and fact in ads, and those who believe that this can "scare off" mainstream acceptance with too much complexity. I think that's mistaken because early adopters are adopting specifically BECAUSE there's something different here.

 

-MKL

[SuperG]

I'm eager to hear his test drive experiences but honestly, am dreading what he will say the salesman said / did to mess it up.

 

-MKL

 

Ok here it goes... I don't know if this is dumping fuel on the fire or much of same as usual.

 

Call from the salesman yesterday around noon, car charged up in the service bay ready to go.

 

Wife an I both want to drive it but get off work at 7 PM. dealer is open till 8 PM. Salesman said he will not be there at that time but other personnel will help me. Fine.

 

We meet at the dealership at around 7.20

Walin all excited to the front desk , tell the clerk why we are here, this is our 3rd time here checking the VOLT and one is charged up in the service bay.

Now this must be known: this is not a small dealership hidden somewhere, It is right on Interstate-35 in Austin. BUT this is Texas. Truck sales are #1 and priority.

 

The clerk check for my sales person and said he is not here and currently there is no one available , all sales staff is with existing customers.

This is all understandable they are busy- good for the dealership. I can not expect them to treat me different.

I was told to have a seat someone will be with me. I was ok but my wife after a 12 hour shift at the hospital was eager to get home. The front desk clerk was nice and was scaling the floor to find anybody that can bring the car around. And they did.

 

The drive on a fully charged battery:

 

The car parked under one bright parking lot light ready for a test drive light on car is silent. As I walked by it I had the urge to op the hood and see whats under. pulled the hood release got out of the car as I reach in to release the secondary hood release under the hood and started lifting the hood the gas engine started by it self, It spooked me and I drop the hood back and wasn't sure in a quick second it If need to jump out of the way. Just smiled and said what the hell? and popped the hood. Under the hood it looked like a small 4 cylinder engine in a HOnda but to the right of it a giant electrical box with massive red/orange colored wires- several- sneaking out of it. Nut it did not look scary.

 

The drive.

One words to describe it: A glorified and fast golf cart. in a good way.

The car is silent through out the drive.

Because there is no transmission, there is no gearshifting lurch forward, it is smooth. Gas/acceleration pedal is smooth and transmits linear power pull from the electric motor. very smooth and predictable. Stumping on the pedal gives a different kind of acceleration then what we were used to.

As a driver the accel did not feel monstrous but as a passenger it will push you back in your seat a bit, but it does not feel fast. However looking at the speedometer it accels quick. TO enhance this acceleration feeling, at night the head light beams and the whole front of the car will lift quiet bit like you would see on a powerfull car when you floor it. It is impressive.

 

Passing on highway speed or going around a truck gets the car going but for some reason does not feel confident, I am guessing for the same reason mentioned before- because we are used to different feedback from the car when the pedal is floored.

We started out with 37 miles on battery juice on the dash we drove it hard for about 13 miles and it when we came back it showed 15 miles left on battery power. We had seat heater on, 2 people in the car, so the extended power draw was justified as I floored most of the time.

With no engine noise what so ever, the road noise was more noticeable but not more than our VW jetta.

 

Other things notable:

2 bucket seats in the back are very comfy. but it makes this car a 4 seater.

 

current financing options. I checked with 2 dealers at least.

0% for 72 months payment around $511

lease Chevy promo only on the base model $5000 down, $299 month. If I let the dealar calculate regular finance with no money down for example it is $499/mo for a standard 36 mo/12000miles lease. Moshe... sent you a PM about this.

 

Other negative. I was told that in this lease.

I would not get the $7500 federal ecotax credit and I would not get the $2000 GM cash back- the leasing company would get it.

Also in Texas there may be property tax is assessed on this lease.

 

My short time with the VOLT is very positive. I like it and I could easily get used to it.

Pricing is a bit high at this time, but debatable.

Obviously payments or financing would be beneficial with substantial down payment, specially with 0% interest offered by GM.

 

The wife factor.

I mentioned to her an upcoming Cadillac ELR, and that may damper the Chevy volt buying experience, because she would rather drive a Caddy emblem with possible power seat with lumbar adjust avail. If I fork out that kind of money I may better with for the Caddy.

I am sold on the VOlt/ELR but its purchase has to be carefully justified. Specially, considering that our 2012 Jetta TDI is just about paid off.

 

PS: this report may be full of spelling error, grammar and fat finger typos but I am in a hurry. got to go. likely can not edit it later, due to time out feature.

[moshe_levy]

Fair enough.

 

With regard to acceleration, this is a 3 mode driving system. Normal, Sport, and Mountain. You likely had it in normal, which is FAR less responsive than sport. If you wanted fast acceleration, at the cost of range of course (just like anything else - more work eats more energy) you should put it in sport-mode. Not sure what kind of bike you have but if you have ESA, think of the difference between "comfort" and "sport" settings. Same here - just apply to acceleration.

 

Re the lease, no, of course you don't get a tax credit on a lease. You don't own the car - the bank / finance company does. They get it. In theory they apply some of it toward the lease price to get the monthly lower, in a perfect, efficient free market system anyway. Whether they're actually doing it or not is another story.

 

Re ELR that's a BIG difference in price. They're going to start around $65-70k and top out around $80k. I personally cannot see anything to justify this increase, other than maybe the Caddy's far prettier styling. That lease would easily top $800-900 - that's what other cars in that price range lease for.

 

OK, anyway, glad you enjoyed it. Wish you had a real salesman who could've shown you how it works in sport mode and the features, etc.

 

-MKL

[moshe_levy]

PS - For leasing the rule of thumb is every $1k you put down reduces the monthly nut by about $35-40. So when you put down $5k you're knocking about $175-200 off the monthly payment. That can help you figure things out also. $500 a month to lease a $45,000 car is not a bad deal, at all.

 

-MKL

[SuperG]

Re ELR that's a BIG difference in price. They're going to start around $65-70k and top out around $80k. I personally cannot see anything to justify this increase, other than maybe the Caddy's far prettier styling. That lease would easily top $800-900 - that's what other cars in that price range lease for.

 

-MKL

 

If that would be the case than Caddy would kick it self in the rear for sure,

Also I hope it will not be like the Caddy Cimmarron / upscale chevi cavalier, back in the 80s.

If it will be an upscale Chevy VOLT for $80K it better will have a massaging driver AND passenger seat, double lithium batteries, 4 traction motors -1 per wheels- so it will be a true 4 wheel drive.

Adjustable suspension (preferably magnatic) a diesel engine to run the gen. a back gasoline engine in case diesel station is not near by, and many other things not needed in the car of such caliber.

 

Or one could just get a tesla if they are after a good electric car. NO?

 

 

 

[moshe_levy]

George-

 

The details of the ELR are out, so there is no need to guess. The drivetrain is essentially identical to the Volt. There are of course a few bells and whistles here and there, but nothing in my mind to justify a near doubling of the price.

 

Csaba Csere on the ELR

(when you find $25k worth of extra goodies, you let me know)

 

Tesla is a pure electric vehicle. It's a great car, but range anxiety is there if you plan long trips. The ONLY car that allows such high mileage with no range anxiety is the Volt. That's why it's so wonderful.

 

-MKL

[SuperG]

I like the "hold" feature. and the paddle shifter style regen. braking. nice.

 

now the $80K price tag.

Without getting into a trolling mode for the Tesla.

If anyone want to fork out a $80 for a green car.

This is the car to have. Tesla S.

 

Talking about a good lookin' car.

And the "0-60 time: 3.9 seconds (Tesla official number is 4.4 seconds) acceleration would make it a not so boring drive either.

Getting around town or to work, meeting or what not, should be not problem it has 260 mile or so range on a single charge. if you know you need to go more, mine as well get into your other car.

 

Just saying that Caddy ELR will be hard to justify.

 

 

PS: just showed the Tesla to my wife, I said "you can drive it to work". She immediately smiled and said: ok get it.

I think she was just joking and not serious, but so was I.

 

[moshe_levy]

Apples and oranges. The Tesla is a pure electric car. If you want 260 mile range, you need to spring for the top of the line version, and that's closer to $100k, not 80k. Tesla's building a network of charging stations all over, but the charging station for a Tesla is a serious piece of equipment, around 20KW if I recall.

 

The Volt / ELR powertrain is not a pure EV. You can never charge it, theoretically, and use the gas 100% of the time. There is thus no range anxiety, and for people like me who routinely make very long trips or commutes, that's a better choice "just in case."

 

Naturally, the Tesla is a high performer with great acceleration, but I bring you back to your original post about your main alternate choice, namely a diesel VW. A diesel VW will have its lunch eaten by a Volt in an acceleration contest, so there's no reason to lament performance of it. If you're comparing to a Tesla - especially the top line Model S - sure, it's nowhere close. But compared to a diesel VW, it's not only faster, but on your wife's commute, roughly twice as efficient on gasoline.

 

-MKL

[Rocer]

I'm eager to hear his test drive experiences but honestly, am dreading what he will say the salesman said / did to mess it up.

 

-MKL

 

...The drive on a fully charged battery:

 

The car parked under one bright parking lot light ready for a test drive light on car is silent. As I walked by it I had the urge to op the hood and see whats under. pulled the hood release got out of the car as I reach in to release the secondary hood release under the hood and started lifting the hood the gas engine started by it self, It spooked me and I drop the hood back and wasn't sure in a quick second it If need to jump out of the way. Just smiled and said what the hell? and popped the hood. Under the hood it looked like a small 4 cylinder engine in a HOnda but to the right of it a giant electrical box with massive red/orange colored wires- several- sneaking out of it. Nut it did not look scary...

 

Could you explain the unexpected / unprompted start of the "gas engine" while you are opening the hood?

[SuperG]

I can't, may be Moshe know. It had full battery so it was not charging related. I guess maybe to provide heat in the cabin?

[OoPEZoO]

From the manual

 

Hood

To open the hood:

1. Turn the vehicle off before

opening the hood. If the vehicle

is on, the engine will start when

the hood is opened.

 

No explaination as to why, but looks like it is intentional

 

[moshe_levy]

I believe this is a change for 2013. Mine does not do this. The ONLY time the engine turns on in my car assuming there is battery capacity is when the temp dips below +25F, and even then it is only for a few minutes. I am not sure why opening the hood should prompt starting the motor. Perhaps the guys on the Volt forum would know.

 

-MKL

[moshe_levy]

After a bit of research, some possible reasons for this feature include:

 

Maintenance. For example, when you finally have to change your oil, the dealer could change the oil then push the start button to turn the car on, then open the hood to check the oil pressure.

 

Charge Sustaining (CS) ICE/GG running diagnostics - they want to plug into the OBD connector and run the ICE/GG.

 

Emissions Testing.

 

There are a few other reasons. Essentially, the dealer once again demonstrated something incorrectly. If one wants to open the hood without the engine running, simply do not turn the car ON. Just like in your plain ICE car. If the car is ON and the hood opens, apparently the ICE turns on for these and other reasons.

 

Now it makes more sense.

 

-MKL

 

[moshe_levy]

Forgot to post this....

 

An easy primer on the drivetrain for you, George: http://www.popsci.com/cars/article/2010-12/demystifying-chevy-volt

 

The 7 times the ICE turns on in the Volt:

 

-MKL

[SuperG]

Lovely, lovely,

 

thank you for posting those two links Moshe, it is bar far the best explanation how the VOLT actually has 3 motors and how they work together. 2 electric and 1 I.C.E.

 

I like the VOLT , I am considering it, I will give up our Jetta, I will likely trade an other car in for it.

 

I must de-mystify the cost of driving VOlt- vs. Jetta ( using the scenario posted for my wife's drive to work. I think your numbers are wrong.

 

28 mile drive to work one way.

Hilly at some places, mostly 55-65 mph speed limit, about 5 miles is 45mph urban speed limit. Add 10mph spped to that she is led footed and drives close to 5-10mph over to speed limit -when possible and safe.

 

we know that our jetta allways get min 40 and up to 45 miles/gallon diesel when she drives it. and the diesel is not a slouch/ it is fun. Further proof our longterm average mpg counter - which we never reset, Trip2 counter- shows average 42.8 mpg. ALso this is Texas, A/C is on 9 months per year. does not bother the diesel engine much.

 

28miles x 2 = 56 miles round trip.

56 miles / 43 mpg = 1.3 gallon fuel needed, diesel fuel at current rate of $3.89 will cost $5.06 in fuel.

 

ALso keep in mind, the our 2012 jetta diesel has 23000 miles on the odo. now. Diesels break-in and settle in at around 50K miles when the rings fully seat and engine compression settles , till then compression keeps increasing and the fuel milage will/should keep improving.

 

VOlt, our fully charged battery on the new car showed 37miles when it was pulled from the service bay. Full battery showed on dash.

Because of the hill and A/C I think she can make it to work 28 miles on battery. but I think we are getting optimistic.

 

The drive home will burn gasoline, again I am confident she will not get the EPA estimated 37mpg on the 1.4 liter engine on the hills and with A/C on. Again I am confident she would burn at a least 1 gallon fuel.

If this is all correct. a full charge of battery from electricity was quoted something like $1.60 and one gallon fuel here today is $3.50

$3.50 + $1.60 is $5.10, the jetta was at $5.06.

The jetta burned 1.3 gal. diesel and the Volt used estimated 1. gal regular gasoline + what electricity needed to recharge the battery at home.

 

Even if I am wrong or slightly off with the numbers that is a wash at best.

Also true that all rechargeable batteries will loose holding capacity over time. 8 years and 100K mile warranty is nice, but will Chevy warranty a battery that only hold 75% (or less) of promised charged after 8 years? At which point will they say ok we will replace it for free.

 

I say this with all honesty. I will ask the dealer to let us take one VOLT home to let us try it on the hilly terrain and see what mileage and performance we get.

 

 

[moshe_levy]

You are off, yes, but you're involving yourself in a calculation which, to me, isn't very important to begin with. If the Volt saves you a dollar or two a trip, or is within 50 cents or whatever, it's not enough to become the primary factor of buying a car to begin with.

 

There are so many other factors, even if cost is per trip is equal (which it's not,) that you can consider. Standard equipment, styling, features, etc. etc.

 

In the end this sort of calculation is faulty for a number of reasons, not the least of which is you assume that the entire life of the car is spent on this commute when, as I showed you above in my own case, it's not true. I showed you I have a 106 mile commute per day - that means I'm driving about twice as long as your wife is. And I burn 1 gallon TOTAL - you are assigning 1 gallon use for half of what my direct experience shows.

 

Further, again, my lifetime is hovering around 130mpg, because as I explained above, many other trips besides commuting - local errands, driving the kids to school, food shopping, et. al. fall into the Volt's electric range radius of 35-40 miles. So they ALL wind up on electric, dramatically increasing overall MPGs. If I was on my commute alone, I would be around 75-80MPG, which is where your wife will end up as well. There is no chance you will achieve this with a diesel VW.

 

-MKL

[moshe_levy]

One more note: I have seen people "test drive" these which amount to them flooring it at every opportunity, braking like maniacs, and otherwise simply not replicating how they drive in "real life." Then they're surprised when they get less range or less MPGs than they thought they would.

 

In the end, it's like anything else. If you drive this car like you drive any other, you will get the positive results people talk about. If you beat the living crap out of it to see what it can do in a short test, do not be surprised by the less than stellar efficiency results.

 

-MKL

[SuperG]

you forgot to mention that you are charging your vehicle at work.

1 full battery only gets 37miles and the gas engine EPA rated at 37mpg so max it would be 74miles , but data shows that the gas engine kicks on at 30% battery capacity.

 

Yes shorty trips under 37 miles would be all electric. which is nice. that is the idea for me to have or own a VOLT as we do driving in town only to haul kids around for this and that. but the majority of our drive is to and from work.

[moshe_levy]

Yes, I charge at work. So if I use 1 gallon in 106 miles, stands to reason I'm using a half gallon each way. That's half your estimate for your wife, on a similar length trip.

 

Those little trips hauling kids and such around town add up, and none of them will use gas whereas a diesel's always using some. That's why my average is so high, compared to what it would be if it was just the work commute.

 

-MKL

[Stir]

I bought one in September. My wife liked mine so much, she bought one in October. We both love our Volts! Due to my ability to charge at work, I average 280 mpg for fuel usage. My wife and I both fill up, 9 gallons, every three weeks. We live on Barona Mesa. If you know the area, you know I live at the 1800 foot level commuting to sea level with a lot of hills between. Going from my home to work, I travel the 50 miles on one charge. Coming back, I travel ~40 miles on the charge. I don't run the air because I need the distance. If I were to use the air, my guess is I would only get 30 miles on the charge.

 

The car is very comfortable and fun to drive. It is fast and handles extremely well in the curves.

 

We got 15000 for the Federal credit. Thankfully because otherwise, we would have owed $6K. So we got a refund instead. We bought the 43K versions. Hers and mine are identical except for the color.

 

As far as saving, figure your electric bill will go up $50 a month. Maybe less, CA's electrical rate starts at .15 cents a Kwh. However, in my case, I eliminated a $900 month fuel bill, replacing it with a $45 a month fuel bill. So that savings makes the car payment and then some.

 

Would I buy it again. Hell no. I would get the Tesla. :-) Seriously though, I am sold on electric technology. The cars are fast and efficient. I believe the car is more reliable than gas engines. It rarely uses brakes instead using regen to put the energy back into the vehicle. There are less moving parts. No transmission. Just a motor that delivers uniform torque from 0 to 15000 rpms.

[Quinn]

Are these cars getting free charges at work? If not, how do you pay for them?

 

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[Stir]

It is a hatchback so cargo area seems plenty specially withthe rear seats folded down.

Upon opening the doors and the rear hatch, it was pointed out that the car has no spare tire. This would have been a shock to me but I recently learned that my BMW also does not have a spare, but the BMW comes with runflat tires.

Comes with an inflater/mini air compressor.

 

The inflator has a goo mode which will seal punctures and not mess up the TPS.

 

 

 

115V electric charger and connector comes standard, but the salesman did not know how much the 230V rig cost.

 

 

The 120V charge estimate was for 1 amp charging. You can set it to 12 amps. Just make sure the outlet is up to the task.

 

I installed two chargers, myself. It is very easy to do. I bought the Clipper Creek model for $750. They work very well with a fully depleted charge taking 4 hours.

 

Entering the vehicle. (This was a fully equipped model)

Telescopic steering wheel was nice.

Seat adjustment only manual, no lumbar adjust - this is a problem for me.

 

I have spine problems. The seat is VERY comfortable to me. I am as happy with it as I was my Yukon's front couch.

 

Seat heater was available, and necessary, as my wife will not purchase one without. ( she is mildly cold blooded even by Texas standards).

 

You need the seat heater!!!

 

 

 

As of now the problem I see is the lack of ability to charge the vehicle (outside of our home).

Example. My wife's work place is 28 miles away and they park in a dedicated parking spots at the hospital. there is no charging opportunity as of yet. She would be only able to drive on E power one way to work.

 

My wife can not charge at work. She runs gas. Her MPG is 140.

 

One stall with E charge with a credit card meter. what they charge /watt I do not know. Was it 230V? I did not investigate.

Will the E charge stations spread in popularity? How fast? Not sure. I guess it will grow with the number of E cars on the road. What will the owners of the station charge /watt?

 

That is a Blink charger. They are becoming more common. I don't use them because a four hour charge is equivalent to a gallon of gas. I'll just burn the gas.

 

 

 

About 300 miles on gas tank on running the gas engine. COuld be painfull on a trip to longer distances. In comparison my suburban and jetta will do over 500 miles/ gastank, the VW passat claim over 700 miles on TDI.

 

Would you make the same analysis with a Prius? The Volt operates as a hybrid when the power runs out. Breaking puts energy back in the battery. The car gets 40 mpg on fuel. But when you can charge, you are traveling on inexpensive fuel. If I am going to take a longer trip, I'm going to rent a large car. I did this before I ever had a Volt

 

Battery: it has 8 years and 100K warranty. Li-on battery if I am correct. I am not an expert but comparing laptop and cell batteries they fade and die fast. I am sure the car's battery is made differently and better to last longer. I hope so.

 

My dad had the first Prius in 2001. His batteries show no sign of failing. The Volt has 6 k overhead. I expect them last as long as my dad's Prius. And if they don't so I replace the battery pack. Over my Yukon, I'll have saved $80k in fuel over 8 years, so what's a 4K battery pack?

A bit of caution.

In compassion to our civics Ni-mh battery which died in 4 years and about 120K miles. We were told no worries it will last.

Also upon trading the vehicle, appraising the car, the appraiser err on the side of "it may need a battery" or "we don't know what shape the battery is in", so they protect them self and price the trade accordingly.

 

The car is innovative and a leap in the right direction.

But as a cautionary measure I would only lease the vehicle at this point, if I can find an attractive lease. My local dealer's offer on lease is far from attractive. Moshe was kind enough to point me in the direction to check other places for pricing I will check it.

 

Let me finish with a bit of controversy.

when electric vehicles take off in sales and become more popular, will the cost of electricity go up and follow what gasoline and oil companies do? Will electric companies bump up the price of electricity to all customers because now they have to build new infrastructure and larger transfer stations update equipments? Will operating an electric car be less expensive?

 

Electricity is definitely going up. About 8% a year over the next three years. That is why I bought solar panels. A 2kW solar panel system can provide all the electrical needs for a Volt. A 3 kW system will cost you ~8k to install. You will get 3K back. So not only will you charge your car, you will reduce your electric bill.

[Stir]

Are these cars getting free charges at work? If not, how do you pay for them?

 

------

 

 

The Blink Network put in the chargers. Normally it would cost $1/hour to charge, My work pays for it. It is an employee perk. It is much less than the free sodas that are provided to us.

[ESokoloff]

Are these cars getting free charges at work? If not, how do you pay for them?

 

------

 

Free perhaps, but not necessarily hassle free......

 

[moshe_levy]

Are we now saying that a 10 second operation of plugging in constitutes a "hassle?"

 

-MKL

[SuperG]

Moshe , If I am correct what Eric's picture shows is one charger and two vehicle need charging, one must wait.

They can always arm wrestle for the plug and cord

 

The leaf is eating the juice and Tesla say: FEED ME! - charge door open.

[moshe_levy]

Ahhh, I misunderstood. I actually had an argument with a family member who saw me parking my Volt and charging up in my garage, and asked me "Who has time for that?" My response is too political to post in this sensitive form.

 

By the way, is that a Tesla? Looks more like a Fisker Karma to me.

 

 

-MKL

[Oldironken]

If i remember correctly the engine starts on purpose if you open the hood with the car on. That way a mechanic doesn't get hurt if they are working on the car and forget to turn it off. That is according to my brother who works at a Chevy dealership in Ohio.

[moshe_levy]

Yes, that was covered above. I've got to test if mine behaves this way.

 

-MKL

[BrianM]

My dad had the first Prius in 2001. His batteries show no sign of failing. The Volt has 6 k overhead. I expect them last as long as my dad's Prius. And if they don't so I replace the battery pack. Over my Yukon, I'll have saved $80k in fuel over 8 years, so what's a 4K battery pack?

 

Really? You spend more than $10,000 per year on fuel? How much do you drive?

 

Most I have driven/ridden in a year was 20,000 miles and would cost a little over $2000 at $4/gallon. I doubt I have spent $80,000 on gas in the 34 years I have been driving.

 

 

[tallman]

We probably spend $5k/yr.

Some of us have long commutes.

[moshe_levy]

Michael has a commute and was driving around in a V8 Yukon, so he could easily reach the figures he listed. For drivers like him, the Volt pays for itself rather quickly.

 

-MKL

[OoPEZoO]

Michael has a commute and was driving around in a V8 Yukon, so he could easily reach the figures he listed. For drivers like him, the Volt pays for itself rather quickly.

 

-MKL

 

Yup. I save over $300 a month in gas alone by commuting in our Corolla versus my Wrangler. My commute is about 600 miles per week. Between that, and Danielle using it to run errands, we put just shy of 45k miles on it last year

 

Plus 3k miles on my Wrangler, 15k miles on Danielle's Grand Cherokee, and another 12k miles on my 1200GS. That's a lot of seat time, and a lot of gas. That's why I have a 6 page spreadsheet dedicated to my fuel costs and what my next commuter vehicle will be

[moshe_levy]

People like you, me, and Michael do well with Volts. My two coworkers also, who got killer deals in the summer. Their Volts are totally loaded with every option on the checklist, and GM was giving them away for $275/mo., no money down, 24 month leases at the time. Their gas bills were $350.00 a month, and they charge at work for free (because we have solar there, so electricity costs nothing). Can't beat that kind of deal. Even at $500 a month it still makes sense to many people, depending on your circumstances.

 

-MKL

[BrianM]

Maybe I am fortunate. The only reason I drive a car is because of snow. Otherwise I ride. I really do not like driving very much at all. Have always ridden more miles than I drive in a year.

 

My wife buys our cars. One of her requirements is a manual transmission.

 

I do find the discussion interesting, but a Volt would not work very well for us.

[Stir]

Moshe , If I am correct what Eric's picture shows is one charger and two vehicle need charging, one must wait.

They can always arm wrestle for the plug and cord

 

The leaf is eating the juice and Tesla say: FEED ME! - charge door open.

 

Blink notifies you that your charge is done. You go down, unplug yours and plug the next guy in. Three cars can get a charge during a work day. I arrive at 7 and by 11, I am done and the next guy is charging. It takes me a few minutes.

[Stir]

My dad had the first Prius in 2001. His batteries show no sign of failing. The Volt has 6 k overhead. I expect them last as long as my dad's Prius. And if they don't so I replace the battery pack. Over my Yukon, I'll have saved $80k in fuel over 8 years, so what's a 4K battery pack?

 

Really? You spend more than $10,000 per year on fuel? How much do you drive?

 

Most I have driven/ridden in a year was 20,000 miles and would cost a little over $2000 at $4/gallon. I doubt I have spent $80,000 on gas in the 34 years I have been driving.

 

 

My commute is 100 miles a day. I have three boys who need driving to ball games and school functions. Their school is 25 miles away. Their mother, who I share custody with on a 50/50 basis is 20 miles away. I know exactly what I spent because I can go online to my bank and ask, how much did I spend in 2011 on fuel. It was over $10k. I was driving a Yukon XL that got 16 mpg.

 

 

[SuperG]

I hope when Caddy releases its ELR they will also allow Chevy to have some of "features".

 

TO name a few form the Caddy ELR video:

1) In Moshe's ELR video link shows better performance/ efficiency simply by software or programing using the same drive train.

 

2) HOLD feature , lets you hold the battery's electric charge till you get to the city and let you use the gas engine on hwy speed where it it claimed more efficient at high speeds.

 

3)Regenerating brake override. via paddle on the steering wheel when you need to slow( say... down hill or to coast to a red light) without stepping on the brakes. the paddle would activate the electric motors generative mode creating electricity and slowing the vehicle at the same time.

 

From the examples above:

clearly, you will save fuel if you are close to 30-40 miles to your destination and can recharge frequently because a charge station is provided and the only ay to get overall long term 100+ mpg rating. Obviously just by coasting or regenerating will not get you those miles because eventually you will also need to up on the same hill you just coasted down.

 

Using comparison of "how much fuel I saved by switching from a Full size yukon to a VOlt" is a no brainier, as fuel saving would have occurred by switching to anything smaller than the yukon. Imagine the fuel saving if we would compare it to a TESLA. I am sure you got the Yukon (at the time) because you needed the extra room to haul or pull something with it.

 

I am really digging the VOLT but its efficiency or cost effectiveness must be based on commute length, terrain and ability to charge (other then at home) may not make the volt a good purchase for everyone.

 

Resale value also could be an issue,

NOt sure why but this car seems awful cheap for a 2012 with 21K miles for $26.9K

http://www.carmax.com/enus/view-car/default.html?AVi=0&id=8648735&D=90&ASTc=VOLT&zip=78645&pD=0&pI=0&pT=400&pC=200&pB=0&No=0&Ep=homepage:homepage&Rp=R&PP=20&sV=List&Q=dee917bb-a538-45d1-8bd7-95133b3d9f03

 

 

[HeliMark]

All this has been interesting, and thanks to everyone. I have been very interested in the Volt since it came out. But the cost does not justify it yet, at least for me, unless someone someone could show me where I may be wrong in my thinking.

 

I commute 700 miles a week (20K miles on my 11 month old RT + 95K on the car), and unless it is raining or snowing use the bike. I have a Jetta TDI and it consistently gets 41-42 mpg, bike is 48 mpg. Recharging at work would not be a problem, so looking at this, I would save very ideally (volt at 37 mpg) 8 gallons of fuel for the week, being 20% of the driving is hills, and the car/bike is a known mpg. That would be saving about $29 a week ($4 a gallon + $1.50 for 4 days in electricity a day at home), $116 a month. Obviously a lease would not work due to the amount of mileage, and buying one at $300+ a month would mean it would cost me more. I am for the environment, just not that much out of my depleted pockets.

 

 

Mark

[OoPEZoO]

Mark. That is generally the same calculations I came up with. Different numbers, same result. Due to the upfront cost premium of the Volt, I would never recoup my investment compared to buying another Corolla or a TDI. It would have to solely be based on the fact that I want a Volt and would be willing to spend more to drive one. I don't have the current desire to spend any of my discretionary income on a commuting vehicle. I'd much rather spend it on my weekend toys.

 

I'd love to see the tech trickle down to some other vehicles. Give me that power train, heated seats, A/C, and cruise control for $10k less and I would go buy one tomorrow. Probably not a reality, but hopefully that's where it is heading

 

[moshe_levy]

>>>I hope when Caddy releases its ELR they will also allow Chevy to have some of "features".<<<<

 

Don't count on it. As is, we have a hard time justifying a $25k premium over the Volt. Give the Volt the Caddy's bells and whistles, and why would anyone ever get one to begin with?

 

>>>In Moshe's ELR video link shows better performance/ efficiency simply by software or programing using the same drive train.<<<<

 

The difference is very little, and if it's software, you can bet that someone will find the hack and sell it to owners who want it.

 

>>>>HOLD feature , lets you hold the battery's electric charge till you get to the city and let you use the gas engine on hwy speed where it it claimed more efficient at high speeds.<<<<

 

That's already standard in the 2013 Volt.

 

>>>>Regenerating brake override.<<<<

 

I agree, that should be there. I gave a GM Volt manager an earful about the fact that the Volt has no real "transmission," but wastes an enormous amount of interior space on a conventional looking shift lever, with detents, etc. Again, someone high up said "we better make this feel like a 'normal' car or we'll scare people off." Dumb.

 

On my Prius, the transmission was actuated by a beautifully simple (and very small) lever:

 

 

The benefits are twofold: First, all the space now occupied by the Volt's fake "transmission" lever can be turned into a storage cubby. Second, as you say, you can copy the Prius design which allows shifting to "B" Mode on the fly, activating engine braking and regen mode. Think of it the same way you think of a "downshift" in a conventional transmission.

 

That's one area Chevy needs to copy from the Prius, for sure.

 

As for the math bandied about here, as Michael said, for some of us it works out VERY well. We also bought or lease Volts because we want them, not necessarily because they save us 43 cents a trip.

 

-MKL