Total control "V" position?

[CoarsegoldKid]

I had the opportunity to sit in on Lee Parks discussion of the 10 steps to proper cornering at New Century BMW last week. Unfortunately a persistent cough prevented me from asking a question. I just sat there trying to understand what the heck he was talking about regarding the need for a "V" position angle. He also talked about suspension setup. You didn't miss anything as it's covered extensively on every MC forum. My comments are in bold.

 

10 steps to proper cornering are as follows:

 

Step 1 action repositions the inside foot to the balls of the foot. No issues on this for me.

Step 2 is preposition the body to the inside of the bike centerline for the turn. No issue here either.

Step 3 action pushes on the outside grip to keep the bike from falling into the turn by forming the "V" position. Since step 2 places the center of gravity inside the centerline of the bike drawing it into the turn I see step 3 is needed to counter act the laws of gravity to maintain the bike at an angle slightly outside of vertical but still heading straight. Past experimentation with these actions tells me yes you can hang off and still go straight. Although I wasn't aware of any angle outside of vertical.

 

Mr. Parks goes on to describe this "V" position as creating an angle, however much as you make it, to provide the the bike a margin of "safety" with that much less lean angle needed for the turn. How does that work?

 

Steps 4&5 are about picking turn in point and looking through the turn.Okay we all do that from cornering 101.

Step 6&7 are simultaneous actions relax the outside grip push and push inside grip. Inside grip good

Step 8 is throttle on inversely proportional to lean angle. Certainly a sensible thing to do.

Step 9 action pushes back on the outside grip and with throttle pick up the bike and maintain the "V" position. Still not sure about the "V" position but the other actions are not unusual.

Step 10 reposition body to neutral when bike is vertical. Okay normal.

[leikam]

Turns are accomplished by moving mass away from the vertical.

 

You can do that in one of 3 ways:

1) leaning your body while keeping the bike (mostly) vertical.

2) leaning the bike while keeping your body (mostly) vertical.

3) leaning both.

 

#1 gives the most clearance but doesn't allow for very tight turns.

#2 eats up the most clearance and looks like the rider is pushing the bike under him.

#3 is proper technique and is smoothest if you move the body first and then lean the bike to match the turn you want.

 

You need less lean angle because you're using your body position to place your combined (rider+bike) mass further out than you'd otherwise be able to do. Without putting your body to the inside, the only option you have for a given turning radius is leaning the bike further, reducing available ground clearance and thus your margin for tightening up quickly.

[Bernie]

Step 3 action pushes on the outside grip to keep the bike from falling into the turn by forming the "V" position. Since step 2 places the center of gravity inside the centerline of the bike drawing it into the turn I see step 3 is needed to counter act the laws of gravity to maintain the bike at an angle slightly outside of vertical but still heading straight. Past experimentation with these actions tells me yes you can hang off and still go straight. Although I wasn't aware of any angle outside of vertical.

 

Mr. Parks goes on to describe this "V" position as creating an angle, however much as you make it, to provide the the bike a margin of "safety" with that much less lean angle needed for the turn. How does that work?>

 

Please keep in mind, that you are still going straight, you are not at the corner entry yet, OK?

In Step 2 you lean your body to wards the direction of the the turn, (left for left hand, right for right hand). The moment you move your body of the center of the bike, your bike wants to turn in that direction. To prevent your bike from turning before the corner, you have to perform step 3.

When you push on the outside grip, your bike leans away from you.

In other words step 2 + 3: In preparations for a upcoming left corner, you will be leaning to wards the left and your bike is leaning to wards the right, BUT your tires are still going straight. This causes the bike and your body to form a Large V, viewed from behind.

I know it sounds awful complicated, but it works like power steering, because once you get to your turn in point, relax the push on the outside grip and the bike will fall into the corner almost by it self. It works.

[lkraus]

Bernie and Michael beat me to it, but here is my interpretation. I have Parks' book "Total Control", but have never attended his course, so I am speculating here. The book details the 10 steps for cornering, but never mentions a "V angle". I think the legs of the V are lines drawn from the bikes center of mass to the tire contact patch and from your center of mass to the contact patch. In the book, there is an emphasis on setting up this angle (step 2) and maintaining it as a constant before, during and completely through the corner - this is to avoid upsetting the suspension by moving your weight on the bike while turning. This angle moves the combined center of mass (you+bike) to a position inside the V.

Suppose you sit straight and centered, and lean around a particular corner at 30 degrees off vertical. Now try it Park's way: pre-position, weight shifts inside, you push on the outside bar to maintain straight travel, your bike and body mass means bike leans 10 degrees to outside, and through the corner the bike now only leans in 20 degrees off vertical. (rough numbers here just to illustrate general principles) That 10 degree difference is the margin of "safety".

[CoarsegoldKid]

Suppose you sit straight and centered, and lean around a particular corner at 30 degrees off vertical. Now try it Park's way: preposition, weight shifts inside, you push on the outside bar to maintain straight travel, your bike and body mass means bike leans 10 degrees to outside, and through the corner the bike now only leans in 20 degrees off vertical. (rough numbers here just to illustrate general principles) That 10 degree difference is the margin of "safety".

Thanks guys, I understand the weight shift and know what it does. I know what the outside push does to the bikes trajectory. I just don't understand how outside push saves lean angle prior to applying inside push. It seems to me that preposition of the body and inside push at the proper turn-in moment would accomplish the same. How to quantify this will be difficult but I'll give it a try.

 

Judging by the illustration Parks used the outside push gives little degrees of angle so your example of ten degrees is close enough. Has anyone seen these steps from racebike onboard cameras?

 

Michael your description is pretty much what I think most riders do that have been riding a long time in twisties. Including me. I believe you are missing that added outside push action for gaining more ground clearance.

[BerndM]

All this is giving me a splitting headache.

It seems to me that the only riders who might gain some benefit from this seemingly illogical procedure are Harley or Harley wannabee riders. Those bikes can't lean for crap.

LOL

[MotorinLA]

All this is giving me a splitting headache.

It seems to me that the only riders who might gain some benefit from this seemingly illogical procedure are Harley or Harley wannabee riders. Those bikes can't lean for crap.

LOL

 

They lean just fine, it's just really hard on the chrome...

[leikam]

Thanks guys, I understand the weight shift and know what it does. I know what the outside push does to the bikes trajectory. I just don't understand how outside push saves lean angle prior to applying inside push. It seems to me that preposition of the body and inside push at the proper turn-in moment would accomplish the same.

 

I guess I didn't understand your question very well so here's a second attempt.

 

The outside push is just counterbalancing your weight as you lean off to the inside. The net effect is that you continue to go straight. That push saves a minute amount of lean angle (which you'd never use) but that's not its purpose. The outside push allows you to fix your body position before initiating the turn. If you scoot over at the same time you dip into the turn, your suspension will be more unsettled and you're much more likely to introduce unintended steering inputs. It works out fine in most cases but if you have time to set up for a turn, there's no reason to choose that method.

[Kinsley]

Step 3 action pushes on the outside grip to keep the bike from falling into the turn by forming the "V" position. Since step 2 places the center of gravity inside the centerline of the bike drawing it into the turn I see step 3 is needed to counter act the laws of gravity to maintain the bike at an angle slightly outside of vertical but still heading straight. Past experimentation with these actions tells me yes you can hang off and still go straight. Although I wasn't aware of any angle outside of vertical.

 

Mr. Parks goes on to describe this "V" position as creating an angle, however much as you make it, to provide the the bike a margin of "safety" with that much less lean angle needed for the turn. How does that work?>

 

Please keep in mind, that you are still going straight, you are not at the corner entry yet, OK?

In Step 2 you lean your body to wards the direction of the the turn, (left for left hand, right for right hand). The moment you move your body of the center of the bike, your bike wants to turn in that direction. To prevent your bike from turning before the corner, you have to perform step 3.

When you push on the outside grip, your bike leans away from you.

In other words step 2 + 3: In preparations for a upcoming left corner, you will be leaning to wards the left and your bike is leaning to wards the right, BUT your tires are still going straight. This causes the bike and your body to form a Large V, viewed from behind.

I know it sounds awful complicated, but it works like power steering, because once you get to your turn in point, relax the push on the outside grip and the bike will fall into the corner almost by it self. It works.

 

Perfect description Bernie

[Jim Moore]

Thanks guys, I understand the weight shift and know what it does. I know what the outside push does to the bikes trajectory. I just don't understand how outside push saves lean angle prior to applying inside push. It seems to me that preposition of the body and inside push at the proper turn-in moment would accomplish the same. How to quantify this will be difficult but I'll give it a try.

 

Has anyone seen these steps from racebike onboard cameras?

 

I don't think he's saying that you ar esaving ground clearance prior to turn initiation. I think he's saying that assuming the V position prior to the turn is one step in the overall process of increasing your ground clearance in the turn.

 

I have never noticed it on an onboard camera. However, I have seen a still shot from the front of a line of superbike riders approaching a turn. All their bodies were positioned to the inside, and their bikes were leaned away from the turn. I puzzled over that pic for a long time.

 

Here's something else you can try. If you have two lefts (or rights ) in a row, simply stay in your "V position on the straightaway. You are already set up for the next turn. Money!

[Kinsley]

Suppose you sit straight and centered, and lean around a particular corner at 30 degrees off vertical. Now try it Park's way: preposition, weight shifts inside, you push on the outside bar to maintain straight travel, your bike and body mass means bike leans 10 degrees to outside, and through the corner the bike now only leans in 20 degrees off vertical. (rough numbers here just to illustrate general principles) That 10 degree difference is the margin of "safety".

Thanks guys, I understand the weight shift and know what it does. I know what the outside push does to the bikes trajectory. I just don't understand how outside push saves lean angle prior to applying inside push. It seems to me that preposition of the body and inside push at the proper turn-in moment would accomplish the same. How to quantify this will be difficult but I'll give it a try.

 

Judging by the illustration Parks used the outside push gives little degrees of angle so your example of ten degrees is close enough. Has anyone seen these steps from racebike onboard cameras?

 

Michael your description is pretty much what I think most riders do that have been riding a long time in twisties. Including me. I believe you are missing that added outside push action for gaining more ground clearance.

 

In the end, you would not lean the bike any less doing it Lee Park's way vs moving your body inside and pushing on the inside grip AT the turn-in.

The difference is that you are getting your body in position BEFORE the turn-in point, so there is more stability at the actual turn in.

In order to get the body in position without turning in early, you have to apply pressure on the outside grip to maintain a straight line.

 

[Kinsley]

Thanks guys, I understand the weight shift and know what it does. I know what the outside push does to the bikes trajectory. I just don't understand how outside push saves lean angle prior to applying inside push. It seems to me that preposition of the body and inside push at the proper turn-in moment would accomplish the same. How to quantify this will be difficult but I'll give it a try.

 

Has anyone seen these steps from racebike onboard cameras?

 

I don't think he's saying that you ar esaving ground clearance prior to turn initiation. I think he's saying that assuming the V position prior to the turn is one step in the overall process of increasing your ground clearance in the turn.

 

I have never noticed it on an onboard camera. However, I have seen a still shot from the front of a line of superbike riders approaching a turn. All their bodies were positioned to the inside, and their bikes were leaned away from the turn. I puzzled over that pic for a long time.

 

Here's something else you can try. If you have two lefts (or rights ) in a row, simply stay in your "V position on the straightaway. You are already set up for the next turn. Money!

 

Yes, and if you have a right then left for example.

When you're coming out of the right hander, keep the bike leaned to the right by maintaining pressure on the inside grip, move your body across the bike and that inside pressure now becomes outside pressure and you are set up for the Left hand corner ahead. The bike's line and suspension travel should be very smooth as you dance across the bike from side to side.

[Kinsley]

I want to clarify an earlier point.

When coming out of the Right hander described above, you would not actually be MAINTAINING pressure because there should be no pressure once you've set your line on the turn-in. When starting to move the body across the bike, pressure should be applied to the right grip to counter the weight transfer and maintain your line.

The hardest part of all of this is NOT using the handlebars for leverage to move your body.

[tallman]

I was thinking that.

With the slightly forward cant on the GT, compared to RT/GS,

it is harder to keep bars out of the moving/leverage.

Would imagine the S/RS a bit also.

[Bernie]

That is why you need to support your upper body with your legs and knees. By squeezing the tank with you knees, you should be able to support your upper body and prevent any input into the handle bars, by shifting your body from one side to the other. I think Keith Code call it "Knee 2 Knee" or something like that.

[Kinsley]

Yes, sport bike guys do it, so it can be done, but it requires good core and leg strength/endurance.

It's an unrealistic goal to attain for a 300+ mile sport touring rider to do all day, but upon entering specific twisty sections of the ride, it's a great goal.

 

Keith Code does call it Knee to Knee, but his instructors do not teach the outside handle bar pressure and pre-positioning of the body before the turn-in.

Not every Code instructor may do it exactly the same as I have seen some sneak the body inside before the turn-in, which would require outside handle bar pressure to keep a straight line, whether they realize it or not.

 

[CoarsegoldKid]

Hanging off inside of vertical- we've all done it so I think we're all talking about the same technique. And to prevent the trajectory of the bike from heading inside an outside push is necessary. However I swear I heard him state that the angle outside of bike vertical when pushing outside grip as the rider is hanging inside of vertical is the margin of less lean angle. I need to hear from the man himself. I'll try to make contact.

 

Anyway yesterday I took my RT out to apply the push outside, hang off inside, push inside technique. I have plenty of 70 mph right, right, left, right, left corners one after the other to ride for experimentation. My conclusions were that there is no way I can quantity the lean angle decrease for a given turn at the same speed cornering in my normal way compared to the Lee Parks way(if I was doing it correctly). And that a concerted push on the outside grip while prepositioning was more thinking than I wanted to use during the moment. I must already be applying a slight outside push but never gave it any thought. As we have noted in all these posts is if you hang weight to the inside of the curve the bike will move toward the inside of the turn. To prevent that you push the outside grip. So I have no issue with that technique and never have. It's the "saves lean angle" part of the description that I do not understand. Thanks for playing.

[Bernie]

Works for me. I think the folks on here used to call it "the Master Yoda" position. It promotes a very loose grip on the bars. And yes, the first few times you do it, you will be sore in your legs and core, until those muscles develop. Position of your feet is also very important.

As for the pre positioning before the corner entry, showed it to a fellow on an LT at the last STS school at Jennings. He loved, said it is like power steering, the bike just wanted to turn by it self. The is space for track techniques on the street, even at slower speeds. It creates safety margins, for just in case or the occasional oh sh*#t moment.

I know several folks, that would have benefited of some of these techniques lately.

There is a reason George follows me on his GS, then on his RT.

 

[Kinsley]

I do think Lee's technique makes the turn-in quicker and possibly more predictable, but not less lean angle than say Keith Code or any other sport or track oriented riding technique.

A quicker turn-in will reduce the amount of time you need to stay leaned over.

When Lee mentions less lean angle, he may be comparing it to cross controlling, in which case he would be correct.

[Bernie]

Well, what we do is by the seat of our pants. It is not a scientific test.

You would have to make sure you use the same speed, turn in point , etc. Then maybe you could see the difference.

Also if it turns easier, you naturally will go faster, because you can.

 

 

[FLrider]

the only riders who might gain some benefit from this seemingly illogical procedure are Harley or Harley wannabee riders. Those bikes can't lean for crap.

LOL

 

Whaaaat ?

 

I take exception to that remark. Bring on your GS and I'll bring my Fatboy and lets' see which bike leans easier and better. The bike you need a step ladder to mount or the one whose center of gravity is go kart height.

 

 

[FLrider]

I do think Lee's technique makes the turn-in quicker

 

Bingo. That's the value of the outside push prior to the inside push. ...and, I did take the Lee Parks course.

[Kinsley]

the only riders who might gain some benefit from this seemingly illogical procedure are Harley or Harley wannabee riders. Those bikes can't lean for crap.

LOL

 

Whaaaat ?

 

I take exception to that remark. Bring on your GS and I'll bring my Fatboy and lets' see which bike leans easier and better. The bike you need a step ladder to mount or the one whose center of gravity is go kart height.

 

 

Any day...any tight road...the Fatboy will be smoked by even a decent rider. A good rider will leave you after 2 tight corners.

[Bernie]

Please, can I watch.

[Huzband]

the only riders who might gain some benefit from this seemingly illogical procedure are Harley or Harley wannabee riders. Those bikes can't lean for crap.

LOL

 

Whaaaat ?

 

I take exception to that remark. Bring on your GS and I'll bring my Fatboy and lets' see which bike leans easier and better. The bike you need a step ladder to mount or the one whose center of gravity is go kart height.

 

 

Any day...any tight road...the Fatboy will be smoked by even a decent rider. A good rider will leave you after 2 tight corners.

 

Not so quick, Ken. I happen to know a rider that had a loaner Soft Tail Heritage that could leave the best rider for dead in the curves, floor boards & all. Meet him in Brevard on April 1st. You know him.

 

[Kinsley]

the only riders who might gain some benefit from this seemingly illogical procedure are Harley or Harley wannabee riders. Those bikes can't lean for crap.

LOL

 

Whaaaat ?

 

I take exception to that remark. Bring on your GS and I'll bring my Fatboy and lets' see which bike leans easier and better. The bike you need a step ladder to mount or the one whose center of gravity is go kart height.

 

 

Any day...any tight road...the Fatboy will be smoked by even a decent rider. A good rider will leave you after 2 tight corners.

 

Not so quick, Ken. I happen to know a rider that had a loaner Soft Tail Heritage that could leave the best rider for dead in the curves, floor boards & all. Meet him in Brevard on April 1st. You know him.

 

 

Sorry Danny, there are great riders we all know on this board, but every bike has limitations.

Are you telling me the Hardley has the same or more ground clearance as a GS? It will need it to go fast in the tight stuff.

[tallman]

Fatboy

31 degrees lean angle

GS is over 50 I think....

 

[Huzband]

 

Sorry Danny, there are great riders we all know on this board, but every bike has limitations.

Are you telling me the Hardley has the same or more ground clearance as a GS? It will need it to go fast in the tight stuff.

 

No, Ken, that's not what I was saying.

[Kinsley]

 

Sorry Danny, there are great riders we all know on this board, but every bike has limitations.

Are you telling me the Hardley has the same or more ground clearance as a GS? It will need it to go fast in the tight stuff.

 

No, Ken, that's not what I was saying.

 

Danny, I know you're talking about riders and a great rider can do a lot with a less than perfect bike.

This thread is about cornering methods and ground clearance.

The same great rider will not do as well on the Hardley as he will on the GS (or similar), that's all I'm saying.

[tallman]

At the Michigan State University police vehicle tests, all of the riders had their fastest times for the driving course on the BMW's.

test results motorcycle dynamics

[FLrider]

.... I never said anything about faster. I said easier. I didn't say anything about which one leans more. I said better. OK, so if, to you, faster and more is better, then your right. But I can tell you from having ridden and owned about 20 bikes of almost all flavors, Harley's are not the pigs people make them out to be in the turns. Ask any of the LEO's who run them in the rodeos......

[Kinsley]

When I'm in the mountains on the tightest roads, I don't want the bike to be the limiting factor. I always want my bike to be more capable than I am and I do like to ride in a spirited fashion.

 

Rodeos are another world, and I do appreciate the skill required.

It's not high speed and they slip the clutch for much of it....I hate that smell on my GS

[motorman587]

.... I never said anything about faster. I said easier. I didn't say anything about which one leans more. I said better. OK, so if, to you, faster and more is better, then your right. But I can tell you from having ridden and owned about 20 bikes of almost all flavors, Harley's are not the pigs people make them out to be in the turns. Ask any of the LEO's who run them in the rodeos......

 

I would respectfully have to disagree on that one. Harley's are pigs and hot ones too. I rode a Harley for work 5 years and a BMW for 10 years. Guess which one I believe is the best work bike??

 

Also I am sure that motor officers would ride something other than Harley. A lot of the guys ride them because they have too and they make the best of it.

 

I do have to say that Harley does give Law Enforcement 100% support and that is why departments keep buying them. Departments do not care about who's goes the fastest, brakes the shortest, the big pictures is money and support.

 

Good example is last rodeo I did not have a motorcycle ride in. Harley factory gave me a brand new 2011 to compete in. Do you think Honda, BMW or Kawi would have done the same???

[leikam]

When I'm in the mountains on the tightest roads, I don't want the bike to be the limiting factor. I always want my bike to be more capable than I am and I do like to ride in a spirited fashion.

 

I think most harley riders would agree with you. In my experience, many people who choose cruisers favor a less spirited pace and don't experience their bikes as a limiting factor.

 

Harleys aren't the best performers in the twisties but I also think they're underestimated. Perhaps it's because many (on both sides) assume that the sedate pace they're often ridden at is all that they're are capable of. It's a self-fulfilling image.

[Kinsley]

When I'm in the mountains on the tightest roads, I don't want the bike to be the limiting factor. I always want my bike to be more capable than I am and I do like to ride in a spirited fashion.

 

I think most harley riders would agree with you. In my experience, many people who choose cruisers favor a less spirited pace and don't experience their bikes as a limiting factor.

 

Harleys aren't the best performers in the twisties but I also think they're underestimated. Perhaps it's because many (on both sides) assume that the sedate pace they're often ridden at is all that they're are capable of. It's a self-fulfilling image.

 

While I know they can be ridden harder than we typically see them ridden, but there is a point where ground clearance will become an issue no matter how good a rider may be on it.

When hard parts start hitting, when suspension is too soft, etc., then the bike is not more capable than the rider (when ridden correctly, which is not what we typically see either).

[leikam]

Oh I agree. When a good rider consistently drags hard parts, he's on the wrong bike.

[Highway41]

 

While I know they can be ridden harder than we typically see them ridden, but there is a point where ground clearance will become an issue no matter how good a rider may be on it.

When hard parts start hitting, when suspension is too soft, etc., then the bike is not more capable than the rider (when ridden correctly, which is not what we typically see either).

 

Ground clearance was never really an issue with the '98 FXDX I rode. The flexing frame had me doing sine curves in a curve long before any shiny bits drug.

Bill

[Huzband]

Oh I agree. When a good rider consistently drags hard parts, he's on the wrong bike.

 

Not necessarily.

[Bernie]

Oh I agree. When a good rider consistently drags hard parts, he's on the wrong bike.

 

 

He maybe operating it the wrong way, there a different ways to skin a cat.

I have seen plenty of Hogs run wild in the mountains. But those are usually the locals, and they know the what's around the corner.

[lkraus]

Oh I agree. When a good rider consistently drags hard parts, he's on the wrong bike.

 

 

He maybe operating it the wrong way, there a different ways to skin a cat.

 

I agree about the naked cat, but consistently operating a bike the wrong way does not meet my definition of a good rider.

[Kinsley]

Danny and Bernie, The point to be taken is when the "good rider" is doing everything right, but still drags hard parts....the bike has reached it's limit.

 

I can't imagine a Cruiser of any brand having the same limits as any Sportbike or most Standards, so given the same expert rider on the same road, the cruiser will reach it's limits sooner.

 

In the end, given equal rider skills, are you putting money on the Cruiser or the GS on Deal's Gap

[Bernie]

Of course the GS.

[Dave_zoom_zoom]

While I know they can be ridden harder than we typically see them ridden, but there is a point where ground clearance will become an issue no matter how good a rider may be on it.

When hard parts start hitting, when suspension is too soft, etc., then the bike is not more capable than the rider (when ridden correctly, which is not what we typically see either).

 

Ground clearance was never really an issue with the '98 FXDX I rode. The flexing frame had me doing sine curves in a curve long before any shiny bits drug.

Bill

 

+1

It can be a bit like riding in a rodeo if you have it laid way over and the road surface isn't smooth.

 

Ask me how I know!

 

Dave

[Horse]

Ground clearance was never really an issue with the '98 FXDX I rode. The flexing frame had me doing sine curves in a curve long before any shiny bits drug.

Bill

 

 

The old airhead Beemers, with wobbly forks and the bolt-on rear subframe, could be 'entertaining'. They certainly teach you the benefits of setting a bike up early for corners!

[UberXY]

 

10 steps to proper cornering are as follows:

 

Step 1 action repositions the inside foot to the balls of the foot. No issues on this for me.

Step 2 is preposition the body to the inside of the bike centerline for the turn. No issue here either.

Step 3 action pushes on the outside grip to keep the bike from falling into the turn by forming the "V" position. Since step 2 places the center of gravity inside the centerline of the bike drawing it into the turn I see step 3 is needed to counter act the laws of gravity to maintain the bike at an angle slightly outside of vertical but still heading straight. Past experimentation with these actions tells me yes you can hang off and still go straight. Although I wasn't aware of any angle outside of vertical.

 

 

If I had to think about 10 steps every time I cornered, I think I would just stay home.

[leikam]

If I had to think about 10 steps every time I cornered, I think I would just stay home.

 

You're over-thinking it.

[UberXY]

If I had to think about 10 steps every time I cornered, I think I would just stay home.

 

You're over-thinking it.

 

Maybe. My primary rule of cornering is "late apex".

[Kinsley]

If I had to think about 10 steps every time I cornered, I think I would just stay home.

 

You're over-thinking it.

 

Maybe. My primary rule of cornering is "late apex".

 

This concerns HOW to corner, not WHERE.

It all becomes natural without taking "steps", but you have to know what to do and what you may be missing in order to get it all.

In the above "steps", actually steps 2 and 3 have to happen at the same time. In order to maintain a straight line, you can't move your body to either side without adding some pressure to the handle bar to compensate.

[notacop]

I was at the Lee Parks talk also. A couple weeks later I saw Kieth Code at Pro Italia. They both expound the same principles for hustling ones bike around the corners. The only limiting factors I see in these race course vs highway tactics is that at the posted speeds for highways, one rarely needs to changes one seat position to negotiate the roads.

If you are riding the pubic highways in the attack mode using all your newly learned tactics the ride becomes an adrenaline rush at supra legal speeds. I hate getting awards from Leo's

Not that rushing pell mell isn't fun but when you are on a new , to you, road should you be working on keeping a knee puck on the ground in the corners?

Personally I'm not endowed with reproductive equipment large enough to facilitate having my butt on the foot pegs and my knee skidding along the ground.

Never mind where my elbows are pointing.

[CoarsegoldKid]

If anyone is riding to the North Meets South in the Middle event in April and has Parks' book please bring it.