R1200ST is dead

[jaySTrider]

Exactly what happened with me Greg! I made the mistake of riding the ST then the GS. a week later the ST, then the RT. The ST gave me all the grinz and giggles n stuff

 

 

Same route as me I set out wanting a 1200GS to replace my 1150GS - the ST won!

[ClearwaterBMW]

you can't go wrong with a GS or ST

good for you

greg

[jaySTrider]

let me ask you...

isn't the nightime visibility of the ST far superior to that of other BMW's? doesn't that "funky" light arrangement render the bike much safer in the dark?

A "little" safer may be. "Much" safer, no way. Not even if you look like a Christmas tree. I think there is always too much importance given to passive safety while the key is active safety: the rider!

 

 

Active safety or passive safety, the headlights on my ST are FAR superior to those on my previous GS. Riding in the dark and being able to see where you are going is the most important thing to me!

[ClearwaterBMW]

Active safety or passive safety, the headlights on my ST are FAR superior to those on my previous GS. Riding in the dark and being able to see where you are going is the most important thing to me!

 

thanks

that's EXACTLY what i was asking.

we all agree that active safety should be our primary concern.... but, working 100 hours/week i do a LOT of riding at night and seeing better is something i cherish

greg

[Bry]

i think the bike looks great..... i admit it is an acquired taste from the front end....

but, the motor is my favorite (i have the gs) and the bike is a hoot to ride

one of those bikes that if you go into the dealer wanting to buy a bike and you ride the ST.... you'll end up buying it for sure, i think

greg

 

 

2nd that also Greg! Went in looking at the K12R... walked out with the ST, I can live with that much easier!

 

Bry

[ClearwaterBMW]

that K-R is sweet... but i can't imagine it being a bike that i'd get enough use out of to warrant the cost, unless i was ultra-rich and had 3 other different bikes in my stable. i think you made a wise choice (no offense to the K-R owners)

 

greg

[wilsons]

Yea, that head light kicks ass at night time!!! Allows me to see the road very easily, but even still I wont ride at night due to the other headlights coming AT me. My poor eyes cant handle that, and I have trouble seeings signs n stuff. So I just avoid that little hazard

[ClearwaterBMW]

at 43, and now 4 years post-lasik surgery i can see my nocturnal vision beginning to diminish. i know why folks older than me on this forum spend less time at night. it's happening to me... but i hope i still have more safe night rides to come because available daytime slots are getting harder and harder to find.

 

greg

[wilsons]

Night time under the moon light is one of the best stress treatments I can get. More so on the bike if I can get away with it.

[YamadogR1]

The headlight is definitely very good at night. It is by far the best headlight on a bike though my 04R1 has a very good headlight also. I agree with Clearwater, you do not use the words grab and whack around an R1. It is a brutally fast bike, you just have to learn the word SMOOTH with it.

[Ozrider]

Hi all. I am a new member. I came to this site to do some research on the R1200ST. I have a terrific K1100RS, that I have considered upgrading for the RST. I have had a test ride and loved it. I didnt think much of the headlight style at first, but the rest of the bits won me over and now I'm getting to like the overall styling. I've been studying the brochures and options, and boring the crap out of my mates.(all bikers). I'm on the verge of ordering one and working out the best way to liquidate my K, when I read all this stuff the ST is gone. My stomach feels empty. I rand my local dealer and he reakons that BMW Australia have production dates for 2006. I'm concerned to buy such a new model (and we all know how cheap they are, optioned on road $27500.00 in Aust), if BMW are not going to carry on with it. After market stuff wont be produced if the numbers are not there. On the other hand, I can understand the posts where some people are keen to own one if they are going to be rare.

Then I read in another section about poor swing arm bearings and poor handling in the rear end. Damn, and I loved the test ride so much.

Can anyone help me out with some words of wisdom. Is it possible to get a definitive answer what the future holds from BMW. I guess they are not going to say much while they have stock. There is still stock available in Oz. We have a R1200ST-SE model here, which is basically an optioned up version. Do you folks have that model. Thanks

Marty

[Bry]

Gee Oz, don't fret too much about what you read in forums, you gotta remember the ones the problems happen to usually post harshly. You just don't see many posts,

 

"hey I went for a ride today and nothing happened!" (if you do you're probably in the Ural forum accidentally)

 

or

 

"gee, 8 months without a glitch..."

 

The new drivetrains have to be fairly rugged for the ST, when you consider both the KS/KR and GS share them and those are exposed to a)more power b)more bad roads, then the ST is ever likely to see!

 

The motors strong enough, This is my tenth BMW, (and no they didn't break down) been lucky had a good run..

 

Look around You'll find a good one.!

 

 

Bry

[Marty Hill]

Welcome Marty,

 

Sounds a bit odd!

 

Buy the bike and enjoy...no worries.

[wilsons]

Ozrider,

 

I'm not too sure about the whole bearing thing myself. It almost sounds to me like it was a particular batch that was shipped off to New Zealand. Just MHO.

 

All the other things I have read about the ST. SAve that one thread I posted. I haven't heard of anyone with any troubles with these ST's yet. They mostly all have 9 to 15,000 miles racked up on the ones that I have heard of (on this forum). Mine has almost 6,000 (1500 of my own). and I haven't had a lick of trouble yet.

 

 

I love this bike, and can't wait for the weather to shape up a little so I can ride it this weekend

 

As far as convincing you to buy one? Do it! Do it! Do it!

[ClearwaterBMW]

Hello other Marty

glad to have you here

i have the GS/same motor and other stuff

that ST is a fantastic machine that will give you years of pleasure.

they'll make the bike again.

the front end may be different, but the headlights are some of the best every made... so there are advantages

buy the bike if you are so inclined and then you can post some great pictures of the bike and the rides in your area of the world

 

greg

[sardineone]

Hi Marty, welcome to this board. In answer to your question of a R1200ST-SE, that's pretty much what I bought here in the states as an 06' model. I have one of six in the US to have the ESA option from the info I have gotten on this site. I have way too low of miles to verify reliability of the drivetrain. I can verify the bike handles well. IMHO the ESA is worth the $ as my suspension has more adjustability and is well controlled. Strangely I still had to have a center stand added to the bike as it hadn't been included. As to the style issue, all I can do is to reiterate what I have said in a previous post. I have gotten numerous complements on my bikes appearance. So there!

[Deans BMW]

Over 17,000 miles of extremely hard riding on my ST and not the slightest glitch. Reliable as a rock and runs like a fine watch.

[YamadogR1]

I would like to take this opportunity to sincerely apologize to everyone here and in the BMW community for starting this thread as I am completely wrong and full of hot air regarding the discontinuation of the ST. In the future I will wait for BMW to release in writing their plans regarding discontinuation of a bike. I would hope nobody regarding the purchase of an ST would pay any attention to my hot air. I want only continued success for BMW and the R1200ST. Anybody desiring revenge can meet me at the ON Rally in Burlington, VT and we can fight it out with water pistols at 50 yards.

[wilsons]

Dude no worries. The people that really have the desire for the bike will get the bike, as I did. Marty seems to show signs of this. Even if they DID go away, the internals are the bike are the basically the same as the RT so its no real big deal, the externals (plastics, hex light), may be hard to get, but alas we needith not worry about now. Even though they will come back for 2007, I'm still glad I got mine! with probably about 40 left in the US. I got one before they ran out! Then I would have had to wait for 2007. That would have sucked

 

And to be all honest, TowJam had a thread about this before, and that inspired me to look a little harder. I'm glad he found out what he did. I have no regrets

[jaySTrider]

Anybody desiring revenge can meet me at the ON Rally in Burlington, VT and we can fight it out with water pistols at 50 yards.

 

Fire hoses at 100 yards

[TowJam]

And to be all honest, TowJam had a thread about this before, and that inspired me to look a little harder. I'm glad he found out what he did. I have no regrets

And I'm sticking to the story.

My dealer is still telling me that production is scheduled to pick back up in August. If that turns out to be the case, I envision an ST in my garage shortly thereafter.

[ClearwaterBMW]

keep the faith, my man

it shall be in that garage.... i have NO doubt

 

greg

[SAAB93driver]

OTL will report that the ST is NOT out of production. Moles say that this rumor arises from the fact that BMW NA won't be importing any 2006 STs (as long as 2005 models remain numerous).

 

Sources say that BMW attributes slow sales to the "funky headlight treatment."

 

Robert at OTL

I'm one person that didn't buy an ST because of the weird harold headlight styling. I'm hoping they will have a retreat to reason and change it.

[jaySTrider]

[quote

I'm one person that didn't buy an ST because of the weird harold headlight styling. I'm hoping they will have a retreat to reason and change it.

 

They will ruin it if they do! It's the most distinctive bike they make at the moment!!

[SAAB93driver]

[quote

I'm one person that didn't buy an ST because of the weird harold headlight styling. I'm hoping they will have a retreat to reason and change it.

 

They will ruin it if they do! It's the most distinctive bike they make at the moment!!

 

IMO it's distinctive in a Pontiac Aztec Bangle butt 7 series kind of way. They've already ruined it for my taste. If they don't change it then I hang on to my timelessly attractive R1150RS and hope the Guzzi brings over the Norge to the US in a few years.

[TowJam]

keep the faith, my man

it shall be in that garage.... i have NO doubt

Greg,

You've got email.

 

[sardineone]

I agree with JaySTrider on this one. I favor a bike of distinction. Those that don't like it don't have to endure the complements I have been getting on my ST. A matter of taste, but there are actually many out there that do like it. And that's without any knowledge of how competent a machine it is. Afraid to say if this bike is slow, it's the rider.

[wilsons]

Greg,

You've got email.

 

 

ohhhh! now im curious!!! It wasn't anything bad about me was it?

[TowJam]

[ohhhh! now im curious!!! It wasn't anything bad about me was it?

Not to the best of my recollection.

 

But... I just got back from my dealer (see my updated sig). Apparently they've just been told that the August production date itself is now in doubt and that in all probability, the ST is done. Nothing official yet though so take it for what it's worth.

[wilsons]

Yea I'll believe it when I see/hear it from the horses (BMW's) mouth

[hngininthr]

If the ST is done, then we who have them have one of the most scarce, unique, distinctive, and beautiful (to us)motorcycles ever built. Also, most, if not all of the running components are common to other models so future parts will not be a problem. Did I mention that it's currently the highest performing boxer twin available? The new S, when it arrives will take over that title, but won't be nearly as versatile.

 

No matter what happens, we who have the ST are winners.

[rideLD]

Yea I'll believe it when I see/hear it from the horses (BMW's) mouth

 

Thats the problem with BMW, there is no one horses mouth, just a bunch of jackass's at the dealerships spreading BS. If BMW dumps the ST it would be a huge blunder on their part. BMW model runs are already so small that it takes BMW 1-3 years on most models just to hit profitablity and recover their R&D and tooling costs. I would think their share holders would have something to say about that huge R&D and tooling waste. IMO its just more dealer BS.

[ClearwaterBMW]

the ST will be back....

it'll be made in the fall, according to sources at BMW posted a lot of places on the 'net. they are NO interest in ending the production forever...

there's just no room on the line right now because of the RELATIVELY MORE POPULAR other bikes.

the

K1200R

K1200S

R1200GS

R1200GS Adventure

R1200S

etc....

plus making the new K1200GT and friends

BMW is NOT HONDA...

they don't have UNlimited assembly line space

(hey.... it's a good thing for BMW to have to stop making one great bike to concentrate on others.... it means that it is selling bikes.... something about which we should all be glad)

 

the ST will be back

greg

[Paul Mihalka]

Thats the problem with BMW, there is no one horses mouth, just a bunch of jackass's at the dealerships spreading BS.

You are generalizing a bit. Somebody like me might get offended, even if you have a smilie behind it

[tom collins]

Thats the problem with BMW, there is no one horses mouth, just a bunch of jackass's at the dealerships spreading BS.

You are generalizing a bit. Somebody like me might get offended, even if you have a smilie behind it

 

I think Karl has a point, but that it does not really have to do with dealership personnel, but higher up the chain. BMW corporate really does not understand its audience in this country. People who ride these bikes are generally very curious about the machines, the history and all things BMW. As a whole, they are very interested in what is happening and in general, flip, off the cuff answers just don't cut it for this group. "Because we say so" will actually be accepted by people who follow other brands, but not BMW. Our folks and especially anyone who takes the time to be involved with this board just won't accept that. Aside from being aggreived, people will start trying to dig out their own answers and when that doesn't work, I think you see the frustration show. For what it is worth, I worked with german car companies in the 80s and can tell you that they were just as arrogant with their customers then as well.

Paul, personally, I appreciate the things you have to say on this site, thanks. I hope I have shed a little light on the subject. If I am full of it, then fire away.

 

tom collins

04 r1150rt, 06 HD fxdwgli (the alphabet bike)

[wilsons]

It wont go away. There are about 220 ST's that need to be sold.

 

You think they wanna put more of them out when they need to sell the current bikes? no

[wilsons]

I guess it's kind of suprising to me that a (BMW) dealership would say something like that without knowing whats really going on. BOTH dealerships that I deal with here in Ohio, haven't giving me any BS over it, just their honest opinions on whats going on which, if you think about it, really DOES make perfect sense (see above post).

[SAAB93driver]

One way to increase short term demand is to put out the word something won't be available anymore. Anyone on the fence with the means will jump on it.

[TowJam]

One way to increase short term demand is to put out the word something won't be available anymore. Anyone on the fence with the means will jump on it.

Agreed.

 

I usually take anything a dealer's sales and/or service department tells me with more than a little grain of salt. However, I'm giving my dealer the benefit of the doubt on this one (ST production being halted for now). When they informed me of this, they knew they would lose the order and deposit I had with them. I had not given them any indication that I would consider another BMW in its place. In fact, I had told them previously that I was not interested in a GS or RT.

 

As it stands now, I have a "tentative" order on an '06 GS in place but I'm holding my options open in the event that BMW makes some type of official announcment regarding the future of the ST.

[wilsons]

True, thats what prompted me to look at getting one a month ago. Those rumor's, and it so happened that the deal was there, and the boys in Columbus helped me make it work. All honesty, I didn't think I was going to get the bike til next spring. I didn't even bring tie down's to bring in home! However, I have absolutely no regrets what-so-ever about getting it now over waiting for next spring. As much as I love this bike that would have drove me toward insanity

[wilsons]

shawn,

....I got off the bike and just had to lean over and hug it, kissing the seat... and thanking it for one of the most exiting experiences of my life.

greg

 

I sooo know that feeling. Heck I go out in the garage just for kicks and hug it every now and again

[NakedRider]

i was just wondering if the UP SIDE to that "nontraditional" styling was a more lit up road in front of you?

 

Greg...this is a little late but...

 

It does make a huge difference. I have an '05 GS with both headlights replaced with H7s and also a pair of motolights. The ST is compareable to the GS in it's current state with the stock bulbs. I also have a KR which I also upgraded to the H7 bulbs and the ST clearly outshines that bike in the dark.

 

I, too, have a HUGE problem seeing in the dark. The only two bikes I've been comfortable with lately at night are my GS with the Motolights on and the ST.

 

I really don't get all of the negative comments posted everywhere about the looks of the bike. I think it looks better than a GS...and remember I own a GS also. There are plenty of bikes out there that I think it looks better than. Hoping to to offend anyone but the Tuono is a perfect example. The build quality of this bike looks very good but exposing that engine...well it just didn't work. Then there is the Multistrada. Great handling bike and a terrific way to have a Duc but not pay a painful consiquence in riding position. I don't think the Multistrada looks better than the ST. How about the Yamaha FZ1?? Not that pretty either. Some of the KTMs. Kinda strange looking...great bikes...but a little different looking compared to "standard" looking motorcycles.

 

I just don't get why this bike was so singled out for it's looks. I read about 6 or 7 magazines each month and this bike has just been ripped apart by the press. Yet if you look in "Performance Bikes" it posted a killer time around their track, especially in the technical part. The December 2005 Cycle World devoted a whole page to one writers opinion that the bike was like a stilletto.

 

I'm hoping I haven't offended anyone that owns one of the bikes that I've mentioned but I think the ST is much more attractive than some of the other bikes out there.

 

I continue to believe that this is the most underated bike in production today.

 

Dave

[wilsons]

Oh man, I think the 2006 FZ1 is just rediculous looking!!

 

 

I agree that the ST is underappreciated, unlike the K12S which has gotten some great reviews. I think its a bike you have to ride for a week or two to really get it.

[NakedRider]

I think its a bike you have to ride for a week or two to really get it.

 

Good point. Seems like they guys that spend the most time on this bike are also the ones giving it the best reviews.

[ClearwaterBMW]

It wont go away. There are about 220 ST's that need to be sold.

 

You think they wanna put more of them out when they need to sell the current bikes? no

 

well, over the years i've given up trying to understand the BMW-mindset about such issues.

i used to think to myself, "they must know what they are doing"

now, however, i'm probably wrong about that

greg

[ClearwaterBMW]

One way to increase short term demand is to put out the word something won't be available anymore. Anyone on the fence with the means will jump on it.

 

that isn't what's going on here...

the word from europe is very clear.... they aren't making them right now... not because they never will again, but because there is no room to do so

 

greg

[ClearwaterBMW]

Greg...this is a little late but...

 

It does make a huge difference. I have an '05 GS with both headlights replaced with H7s and also a pair of motolights. The ST is compareable to the GS in it's current state with the stock bulbs. I, too, have a HUGE problem seeing in the dark. The only two bikes I've been comfortable with lately at night are my GS with the Motolights on and the ST.

 

I really don't get all of the negative comments posted everywhere about the looks of the bike. I think it looks better than a GS...and remember I own a GS also.

I just don't get why this bike was so singled out for it's looks. I'm hoping I haven't offended anyone that owns one of the bikes that I've mentioned but I think the ST is much more attractive than some of the other bikes out there.

 

I continue to believe that this is the most underated bike in production today.

Dave

 

it's never too late to help ENLIGHTEN us about visibility at night.

i think that the GS and the ST are BOTH very nice looking bikes.

i'm glad about your lighting comments

greg

[Stan Walker]

they aren't making them right now... not because they never will again, but because there is no room to do so

 

I hope that means they are busy building F800ST's!!!!!!!!! While not an oilhead, that bike is going to be in my stable if they import it!!!! Spec wise, it will be close to perfect. And good looking too!!!!

 

Stan

[SAAB93driver]

One way to increase short term demand is to put out the word something won't be available anymore. Anyone on the fence with the means will jump on it.

 

that isn't what's going on here...

the word from europe is very clear.... they aren't making them right now... not because they never will again, but because there is no room to do so

 

greg

 

The word from Europe, is seldom very clear. I've seen both possibilities posted here so it isn't crystal clear to me what is really going on and who is saying what, but perhaps the dealer is trying to increase some demand at the local level? See how much one dealer's comment has people buzzing. No such thing a bad publicity.

 

I remember in 1998 when the some major magazines and my dealer said the same thing about the R11RS - it was the last year of production which fueled a few short term sales - I was one.

 

In any case I doubt BMW will continue making a bike for the long term that doesn't sell well. I'd be surprised if it died after the first year but I could see it dying after 3, or there could be a lapse year in production like we see now while they do some changes to turn demand around? It's all speculation but from an economic standpoint it would generally be unless they can turn the sales around the bike will not continue, or not in its current form - look to the cruiser (cancelled) and the oringal funky R1100R/R850R which got restyled instruments and headlight a couple years after it appeared.

[jaySTrider]

........the oringal funky R1100R/R850R which got restyled instruments and headlight a couple years after it appeared.

 

 

I use to have one of those - must explain why I'm attracted to the ST so much