pickup driver tries to kill motorcyclist

[upflying]

Southern hospitality

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbTZkZTYkaM

[DiggerJim]

Doesn't seem as clear-cut as the video captioning purports it to be. The first biker passes without pausing on a double-yellow. Cretin trucker does do the sideways push but the biker is safely past & should have left it there. Second biker chasing the truck & the first biker could have called the police to report the trucker but instead chases the pair - and it doesn't seem the truck is able to keep up with the first biker. It's only by stopping & waiting that the 1st biker re-engages with the trucker and only then does the 2nd biker make the phone call.

 

Just like any accident or chain of events, this confrontation could have been avoided or de-escalated if any of a number of things had not been done but the participants forged the links in this story by deliberate action (all parties).

 

If I'm an innocent trucker with 2 hooligans racing up my ass and trying to scare the willies out of me by passing at a high rate of speed unexpectedly in a no-passing zone & I chase said hooligan so I can catch sight of his plate so I can report him to the police - seems like a responsible course of action on my part....sheesh I almost ran him off the road he startled me so much when he blew past me in that no-passing zone when I didn't expect it - he coulda got killed! Stinkin wannabe racers on their crotch rockets setting up innocent drivers going out with their cameras and fancy pants motorsickles just looking for trouble that they could post on the Internet!

 

....different points of view possible all round....

[Quinn]

So, who won the A*hole contest?

 

-----

 

 

[ESokoloff]

 

...If I'm an innocent trucker with 2 hooligans racing up my ass and trying to scare the willies out of me.....

 

Did you watch the same video I did?

I would call the driver of the truck the one trying to scare the willies out of the biker(s).

[BailyD]

First, truck driver is WRONG and will more than likely pay for his actions. Second, first biker is WRONG and will likely pay for his actions too.

 

Why did this happen? You will see more and more of this type of road rage as motorcyclists, specifically sport bikes fail to take responsibility for their actions on the roads (which was the catalyst for this encounter). I doubt any of this would have happened if the bikers were doing what they were suppose to. The captions in the beginning would have you believe a cyclist was just out cruising his favorite road when this happens. Just by watching their video you can see how fast they are traveling.

 

As I watched it I knew what was going on before anyone spoke at the end. The lead in caption talks about being a favorite road of many cyclist, you see multiple sport bikes passing in the opposite direction, you watch the two bikes riding speeds and illegal passing then in the end you hear the truck driver talking about being tired of all the sport bikes ripping up "their" road. He certainly lives there and is tired of the irresponsible motorcyclist going too fast (you all know how fast) and this is the culmination of his (and probably many other locals) feelings.

 

Notice front cyclist is conspicuously silent. He KNOWS what's on the video and knows he is going to be in trouble too! I'd be surprised if he stayed and instead left his friend to provide video and tell the police he doesn't know the front rider.

 

Finally, don't believe for a second that one of the many sport bikes riding their favorite PUBLIC roads couldn't cause a catastrophic crash themselves, just like the truck driver. No driver/rider responsibility anywhere in this video. Truck driver gets arrested, front cyclist gets serious motor vehicle tickets.

[dhanson]

Hate to say it, but if it was my local road to work/golf what have you and MCs flew around me I would call the Sheriff also. I would not hinder, but would try VERY HARD to get the license plates.

 

I can see this happening anywhere there is frequent MCs flying low. I am guilty myself at times, dang it!

[ka5ysy]

Both the trucker and the rider:

 

Reckless Operation, Speeding.

 

 

Trucker: Attempted murder or attempted aggravated battery (either are major felonies).

 

 

After stop:

 

Rider and Driver: disturbing the peace, assault (verbal threats), blocking a public road, illegal parking.

 

Throw everybody in jail issue a book full of tickets and summonses and let the judge figure it out.

 

Worked out fine when I used to do law enforcement. De-escalation works fine in jail!

 

 

[brennaman]

Sure the bikes were going to fast, but that trucker can't take the law into his own hands like that. I know why I enjoy riding, for roads like that. And cages slow bikes down, so I have also passed on a double yellow. If I can see far enough ahead for a safe pass, I'll pass. If I get caught, I will pay the fine. But if a cage tries to be the law on his own like that, I will do everything I can to get his tag and turn him in. That being said, I try to not piss off the cages, and try to present a positive image. But I could see myself in that situation. I would say there are probably a few "spirited" riders here that could also happen to.

[DiggerJim]

Did you watch the same video I did?

I would call the driver of the truck the one trying to scare the willies out of the biker(s).

 

I'm just suggesting the cops are likely to be presented with 2 conflicting stories :-) The only "truths" you can discern from the video are that the bikers were riding fast (maybe faster than the speed limit but I didn't catch a sign) that you can calculate from the time it takes them to pass fixed distance objects (like the utility poles) and that the initial biker made an unhesitating illegal pass. After that it's he-said/she-said. And if the trucker isn't a total buffoon, he's going to use the "I was scared of hooligans" defense - down to the point where they ganged up on him at the stop and didn't back down until he pulled out a tire iron (which he put away when they went back to their bikes).

 

Who's a jury to believe? Two bikers with a verifiable law-breaking show-off attitude (they even filmed their own lawlessness!) or the poor scared truck driver?

 

Guess who loses?

 

That would be all of us 'cause we get tagged by association with every dimwit motorcyclist's behavior every time we ride.

[James Clark]

The poster is bragging about all the charges they're gonna throw at the trucker. But if their riding is any indication, I don't think they'll be around long enough to testify.

[GRB60]

I understand the frustration of the pickup driver. His actions, though, were over the top.

[Ponch]

Doesn't seem as clear-cut as the video captioning purports it to be. The first biker passes without pausing on a double-yellow. Cretin trucker does do the sideways push but the biker is safely past & should have left it there. Second biker chasing the truck & the first biker could have called the police to report the trucker but instead chases the pair - and it doesn't seem the truck is able to keep up with the first biker. It's only by stopping & waiting that the 1st biker re-engages with the trucker and only then does the 2nd biker make the phone call.

 

Just like any accident or chain of events, this confrontation could have been avoided or de-escalated if any of a number of things had not been done but the participants forged the links in this story by deliberate action (all parties).

 

If I'm an innocent trucker with 2 hooligans racing up my ass and trying to scare the willies out of me by passing at a high rate of speed unexpectedly in a no-passing zone & I chase said hooligan so I can catch sight of his plate so I can report him to the police - seems like a responsible course of action on my part....sheesh I almost ran him off the road he startled me so much when he blew past me in that no-passing zone when I didn't expect it - he coulda got killed! Stinkin wannabe racers on their crotch rockets setting up innocent drivers going out with their cameras and fancy pants motorsickles just looking for trouble that they could post on the Internet!

 

....different points of view possible all round....

 

You're not a cop, you are not supposed to be chasing anyone. If someone wants to blast past you, mazel tov. Some people are control freaks.

[longjohn]

I understand the frustration of the pickup driver. His actions, though, were over the top.

I don't. I could care less if someone wants to pass me, legally or illegally. In fact I usually check my 6 when on the bike or in the cage and try to make it easier for them to pass.

[beemerman2k]

I'm sorry, but what that truck driver did was totally inexcusable and indefensible. Who cares if sport bikers want to ride in a manner you don't like, take down plate numbers and call the cops if necessary. Those riders had no intention of "scaring" that trucker. They simply wanted to pass him and keep on going.

 

Sick and twisted that trucker is.

[russell_bynum]

I understand the frustration of the pickup driver. His actions, though, were over the top.

I don't. I could care less if someone wants to pass me, legally or illegally. In fact I usually check my 6 when on the bike or in the cage and try to make it easier for them to pass.

 

Yup. As long as you're not passing around a blind corner or something, I really don't care. If I have a chance I'll move over as far as I can to make it easier. Why should I care that someone wants to go faster than me?

[beemerman2k]

I understand the frustration of the pickup driver. His actions, though, were over the top.

I don't. I could care less if someone wants to pass me, legally or illegally. In fact I usually check my 6 when on the bike or in the cage and try to make it easier for them to pass.

 

Yup. As long as you're not passing around a blind corner or something, I really don't care. If I have a chance I'll move over as far as I can to make it easier. Why should I care that someone wants to go faster than me?

 

Because they are doing it to belittle you! That's right, they went out and bought sport bikes, got up that morning, hit the road just when you were driving your car, and figured they would insult you by wanting to go faster than you. That completely unacceptable! I am always going as fast as necessary, dammit! I'll learn those hot doggers a thing or two when I run them over! Yeah, nobody passes me dangit! :nutcase:

[russell_bynum]

I understand the frustration of the pickup driver. His actions, though, were over the top.

I don't. I could care less if someone wants to pass me, legally or illegally. In fact I usually check my 6 when on the bike or in the cage and try to make it easier for them to pass.

 

Yup. As long as you're not passing around a blind corner or something, I really don't care. If I have a chance I'll move over as far as I can to make it easier. Why should I care that someone wants to go faster than me?

 

Lol.

 

Because they are doing it to belittle you! That's right, they went out and bought sport bikes, got up that morning, hit the road just when you were driving your car, and figured they would insult you by wanting to go faster than you. That completely unacceptable! I am always going as fast as necessary, dammit! I'll learn those hot doggers a thing or two when I run them over! Yeah, nobody passes me dangit! :nutcase:

[BailyD]

I think some posters are missing the point about the frustration of the truck driver (I am NOT defending the truck driver, he needs to go to jail). If you observe the road you'll see many houses and at one point a Church with cars parked along the shoulder of the road on both sides.

 

The pass is not that big of a deal, but the problem arises when a multitude of bikers use the roadway in front of people's HOMES as the Isle of Mann every weekend. You cannot ignore the fact that these bikers are probably going anywhere from 50 to 80+ mph. Everyone here knows they wouldn't want to be sitting in their front yard (some houses were close to the road) with their children playing and having guys riding by like this.

 

I know I wouldn't like to be in my front yard with my six year old daughter and having Joe Rockets BLASTING by all day long. Take it to the track!! The damage these riders do the image of motorcyclists can be terrible. Remember who the jury is and who will hear this case when it comes to court (look at ALL the cars outside of the church). Thumb your nose all you want but that's the reality, most people don't ride.

 

One more quick note. With the investigation into this case the police will also see the ENITRE video from the bikes, including all riding prior to the incident.

[w2ge]

I see three morons in this video...

 

CAUSE > EFFECT. "IF" the sport bike riders weren't riding like this, what "would" have happened?

 

 

No one ever wants to take responsibility for their OWN actions.. BLAME everyone else.. Sad state of our society today. You can only control what YOU do, so... no doubt, Hillbilly truck rider is an a-hole... but so are the riders.. How pissed would I be if I saw guys ride that fast past my house!!! What about people crossing the street, Mothers pushing a baby stroller....

 

ALL ARE WRONG. ALL WILL BE TICKETED.. (and If I shot that video I wouldn't show it to a cop, it's evidence against me!)

[Lawman]

Arrest all three for reckless driving.

 

http://law.onecle.com/texas/transportation/545.401.00.html

 

Put all three in the same cell without any other witnesses.

 

Close door.

 

Go to lunch.

 

Check on them after lunch and provide any needed medical attention to the truck driver, arraign and release all three..

 

At least that's what I've done..

 

[beemerman2k]

If the issue in this video is, "who ever did something illegal needs to face judgment", the both parties will go to court. But if the issue is, "some 'crimes' are worse than others", then that's a different story. Since when is death the penalty for speeding? Since when is taking the law into your own hands and putting motorcyclists in a situation where they endanger their lives having to run from a mad trucker the same level of legal infraction as crossing the double yellow?

 

How anyone can equate the actions of the trucker and the motorcyclists is beyond me.

 

Just because none are innocent doesn't mean all are equally as guilty.

[upflying]

X2 beemerman.

Pickup truck offense: assault with a deadly weapon

motorcycle offense: speeding and passing over double yellow

 

Both: machismo, testosterone fueled, redneck culture, reckless driving road rage

[w2ge]

Beemerman... I don't know if anyone said that (equivalent crimes)

 

I'm not trying to make equivalents of crimes committed.. I'm stating that ALL are wrong, and instigators were the bikers... Simple as that. Let the LAW figure out what is the "crime."

 

Who do I think is the biggest azz-hat: THe Redneck Trucker, no doubt. But You, I, anyone, everyone (in all facets of life) can only control what WE do.. and WE should not ride like this.. Ride like an as*hole, as*hole things happen.

[beemerman2k]

But You, I, anyone, everyone (in all facets of life) can only control what WE do.. and WE should not ride like this.. Ride like an as*hole, as*hole things happen.

 

Funny, but this is my exact point, too! We shouldn't ride like this, nor should we drive like this.

 

Let's hold the motorcyclists accountable for their actions, and the truck driver accountable for his actions!

 

Motorcyclists: speeding and crossing the double yellow

Truck driver: assault with a deadly weapon.

 

***both are ever and only responsible for their own actions*** The trucker cannot argue that it was the riders who made him do it.

[George Brown]

So, who won the A*hole contest?

 

-----

 

A bit of wisdom that I learned many, many years ago from my father, "Never argue with a horse's a** in public, the bystanders can never tell which one is the HA"

[longjohn]

I think some posters are missing the point about the frustration of the truck driver (I am NOT defending the truck driver, he needs to go to jail). If you observe the road you'll see many houses and at one point a Church with cars parked along the shoulder of the road on both sides.

 

The pass is not that big of a deal, but the problem arises when a multitude of bikers use the roadway in front of people's HOMES as the Isle of Mann every weekend. You cannot ignore the fact that these bikers are probably going anywhere from 50 to 80+ mph. Everyone here knows they wouldn't want to be sitting in their front yard (some houses were close to the road) with their children playing and having guys riding by like this.

 

I know I wouldn't like to be in my front yard with my six year old daughter and having Joe Rockets BLASTING by all day long. Take it to the track!! The damage these riders do the image of motorcyclists can be terrible. Remember who the jury is and who will hear this case when it comes to court (look at ALL the cars outside of the church). Thumb your nose all you want but that's the reality, most people don't ride.

 

One more quick note. With the investigation into this case the police will also see the ENITRE video from the bikes, including all riding prior to the incident.

Regarding the frustration of the truck driver. He was trying to take the law into his own hands. If he feels there is a safety situation on that particular stretch of road he needs to tell the authorities and they can start monitoring the area. Give a few tickets to the alleged speeding bikers and word will get around about the LEO presence. Given the fact that there was no LEO presence in the video, and the bikers are using the road on a regular basis, it leads me to believe that there is not a problem on the road, and the trucker was just being a red-neck control freak a-hole, maybe jealous of the guys on the sport bikes. You don't know how fast bikes travel on that road and neither do I. Heck, every time I go up 33 I know there is going to be LEOs present, especially at the top, in fact I'm sure every biker on 33 knows that too.

[w2ge]

But You, I, anyone, everyone (in all facets of life) can only control what WE do.. and WE should not ride like this.. Ride like an as*hole, as*hole things happen.

 

Funny, but this is my exact point, too! We shouldn't ride like this, nor should we drive like this.

 

Let's hold the motorcyclists accountable for their actions, and the truck driver accountable for his actions!

 

Motorcyclists: speeding and crossing the double yellow

Truck driver: assault with a deadly weapon.

 

***both are ever and only responsible for their own actions*** The trucker cannot argue that it was the riders who made him do it.

 

Beemerman, We are on the same page, I knew I liked you! ;-)

 

[BailyD]

I think some posters are missing the point about the frustration of the truck driver (I am NOT defending the truck driver, he needs to go to jail). If you observe the road you'll see many houses and at one point a Church with cars parked along the shoulder of the road on both sides.

 

The pass is not that big of a deal, but the problem arises when a multitude of bikers use the roadway in front of people's HOMES as the Isle of Mann every weekend. You cannot ignore the fact that these bikers are probably going anywhere from 50 to 80+ mph. Everyone here knows they wouldn't want to be sitting in their front yard (some houses were close to the road) with their children playing and having guys riding by like this.

 

I know I wouldn't like to be in my front yard with my six year old daughter and having Joe Rockets BLASTING by all day long. Take it to the track!! The damage these riders do the image of motorcyclists can be terrible. Remember who the jury is and who will hear this case when it comes to court (look at ALL the cars outside of the church). Thumb your nose all you want but that's the reality, most people don't ride.

 

One more quick note. With the investigation into this case the police will also see the ENITRE video from the bikes, including all riding prior to the incident.

Regarding the frustration of the truck driver. He was trying to take the law into his own hands. If he feels there is a safety situation on that particular stretch of road he needs to tell the authorities and they can start monitoring the area. Give a few tickets to the alleged speeding bikers and word will get around about the LEO presence. Given the fact that there was no LEO presence in the video, and the bikers are using the road on a regular basis, it leads me to believe that there is not a problem on the road, and the trucker was just being a red-neck control freak a-hole, maybe jealous of the guys on the sport bikes. You don't know how fast bikes travel on that road and neither do I. Heck, every time I go up 33 I know there is going to be LEOs present, especially at the top, in fact I'm sure every biker on 33 knows that too.

 

You can be frustrated over a real problem, but go about solving the problem incorrectly. Just because you make a really dumb and highly illegal decision doesn't make the initial catalyst any less relevant. You are going to indicate they weren't speeding? I'll use the line another poster said "were you watching the same video I was?" Next, "my" perception regarding the idea that no police equals no problems is more along the lines the police are stretched thin in their area and aren't allowed to chase sport bikes when they run at high speeds therefore they don't address the residents complaints. The conclusion that the lack of law enforcement presence at that particular moment means there isn't a problem is a thin stretch at best.

 

I'll mention it again....the truck driver needs to go to jail....the cyclist needs some serious tickets.

[Skywagon]

One word...YOUTH! With age and wisdom the bikers wouldn't have done that. With age and wisdom the trucker wouldn't have done that. When I was a YOUTH I would get angry when someone did something wrong in traffic. Never happens now!

 

I live in Houston and if I got mad and chased everytime a driver of any vehicle did something like the biker did, I would be mad and driving 100 mph all the time.

 

My point is so what. Big deal. Let the biker fool go. If someone does something wrong to you in traffic, leave it alone. They will eventually pay in a big way. You have a family. Don't deny them the possibility of missing you.

 

In Texas, the probability of shots exchanged would have been about 90%. No traffic incident is worth it.

 

For those who were going to chase to get the license number...you would have put yourself at great risk to do so...Leave it alone.

 

YOUTH...something you have to live through and come out the other side.

[Codeman]

I think it was George Carlin that said anyone driving slower than you is an idiot and anyone driving faster than you is a maniac.

I think the county's response to the traffic on this road was to paint the double yellow line. It looks like it is on every stretch of that road. This is a pain in the buttocks when you are joyriding in the country side as you inevitably run behind slow trucks and farm equipment ( notice the trailing bike and pickup had to stop for the Diahatsu). Sure the guy crossed a double yellow, but it wasn't on some random blind corner. It was on a slight hill with plenty of visual clearance and room to pass. The trucker had an intent to kill or injure. At the end he's so hot he forgets to put his truck in gear. Then he goes back to his truck and pulls out a crowbar because he had a guy telling him he was a jerk for trying to kill him.

Sure the bikers committed some moving violations, but those violations do not merit a vigilante death sentence by pick up or crow bar.

I had something similar happen to me a couple years back where I legally passed a semi on HWY 14 in Washington on the North side of the Columbia river. This is a staight stretch with no shoulders or turnoffs. I passed the semi at about 70. He got mad for some reason and the next thing I knew it was like Speilberg's Duel. I had no where to go but fast and straight ahead. He kept up with me to about 110 before I finally lost him. I don't ride that fast if I can help it and would have pulled over and let him by if there had been a place to do so. I ended up waiting for my friends on the side of the road too. If the trucker had stopped and pulled out a crow bar he would have been directed to get back in his truck and move along...

[tallman]

This reminds me of a nice stretch of roads near here.

Mostly rural, forest, with very fedw inhabitants.

Over time the sport bike riders began to appear.

Speed limits were 55/60 in most places.

I was riding one day when 2 bikes passed me going over 100mph while I was probably 65ish.

The pass was accompanied by a long high pitched whine as they disappeared down the road.

The sound was annoying.

Happened again about a year later and Istopped heading over there as the second time was on a blind curve.

 

Went back about a year later.

Speed limits 45/35 and signs posted all over about children at play anywhere near a residence (isolated usually) and extended stretches of 35mph.

With our new speeding laws if you go through at the 65ish which made for a very nice ride or the 75 or so that made it a bit more fun you now risk losing your license and hefty fines.

Thanks whiny sportbikes.

 

Maybe the truck driver "took the law into his own hands" but so did the rider when he passed on the double yellow (not to forget about the high rate of speed).

Two wrongs...

 

When we are on public roads that go through residential areas we should act like guests and not spoiled brats, IMO.

[longjohn]

 

You can be frustrated over a real problem, but go about solving the problem incorrectly. Just because you make a really dumb and highly illegal decision doesn't make the initial catalyst any less relevant. You are going to indicate they weren't speeding? I'll use the line another poster said "were you watching the same video I was?" Next, "my" perception regarding the idea that no police equals no problems is more along the lines the police are stretched thin in their area and aren't allowed to chase sport bikes when they run at high speeds therefore they don't address the residents complaints. The conclusion that the lack of law enforcement presence at that particular moment means there isn't a problem is a thin stretch at best.

 

I'll mention it again....the truck driver needs to go to jail....the cyclist needs some serious tickets.

I'll say it again, you don't know how fast they were going and neither do I. Am I right or wrong?

 

Well are police stretched thin? I don't know do you? If there was a problem and the inhabitants of this town were fearing for the lives of their children because of the speed of the motorcyclists on that stretch of road you would think they would contact the local enforcement agency. Speed traps are easy to set up. Or in the case of some Utah towns, put up a cruiser with a reasonable facsimile of a LEO in the driver's seat, it sure works on me.

 

Yep these motorcyclists may have been speeding, but it is a stretch to think the town's folks are squeezing their sphincters every time a motorcyclist goes by.

[BailyD]

I've been visually estimating and confirming speeds via my radar unit for nearly 20 years and riding motorcycles for a long time (including for work). I'll take a guess and say they were going over the speed limits (any takers on this one?) Figuring their speeds would be VERY easy to calculate using their video, being at the location and a simple time over distance calculation (and the truck driver's testimony regarding his speed). Of course I'd look at their ENTIRE video not just their snippet to get a good, fair calculation.

 

As for the police being stretched thin, that was my way of saying my example OR yours could be true. I know for a fact that where I work my example is spot on accurate. EVERY neighborhood wants us nearby, but we do not have enough officers to address anything but the most serious problems (the rest wait til we get a chance).

 

I'd be willing to bet a large sum of money that "if" we were capable of going to that particular road (maybe stop by that church full of parishioners?) and ask if they think the bikes are a problem we would find plenty of locals willing to bend our ears. Heck, besides the two involved I saw three more in the opposite direction in just that short video. Take your video camera out, turn it on and ride down a road and see if you come across five sport bikes in nine minutes. Not too likely.

[4wheeldog]

I'd be willing to bet a large sum of money that "if" we were capable of going to that particular road (maybe stop by that church full of parishioners?) and ask if they think the bikes are a problem we would find plenty of locals willing to bend our ears. Heck, besides the two involved I saw three more in the opposite direction in just that short video. Take your video camera out, turn it on and ride down a road and see if you come across five sport bikes in nine minutes. Not too likely.

 

Another way to verify whether the problem is real or perceived would be to review a couple of year's worth of accident data for that stretch of road. If there are not accidents to back up people's feelings, the problem is more one of viewpoint. Most people do not have the advantage of your experience for estimating speeds, and just decide that all those bikes are going "Way to fast". And they might be........But untrained witnesses are not the best source of hard data. Just sayin'.

[longjohn]

 

I'd be willing to bet a large sum of money that "if" we were capable of going to that particular road (maybe stop by that church full of parishioners?) and ask if they think the bikes are a problem we would find plenty of locals willing to bend our ears. Heck, besides the two involved I saw three more in the opposite direction in just that short video. Take your video camera out, turn it on and ride down a road and see if you come across five sport bikes in nine minutes. Not too likely.

Yes, if you ask them they will respond. My point is that when I see or experience problems in my city I call the authorities, and my city is small enough that it usually doesn't take long for them to respond. You don't have to come and ask me. So maybe that town is being inundated with complaints about bikers on that road, or maybe not. I didn't see evidence, other than one red neck pickup truck driver, that people there think there is a problem. If the parents on that road are telling Jenny and Bobby to get inside when the bikers ride by maybe there is problem there, and they should contact the authorities.

[Linz]

OK, I acknowledge that the first biker overtook on double yellows and that, that's illegal. He did do it on a relatively straight section for what was the briefest of moments. It possibly would have been even briefer if the truck hadn't tried to run him off the road.

 

Did anyone else see the amount of time the truck spent on the wrong side of the road for the rest of that video? I also noticed the overtaking biker have to really speed up to get away from the truck. The guy with the camera wasn't going to attempt an overtaking maneuver after seeing what happened to his buddy.

 

I also noticed that even the truck slowed through the more heavily populated zones. Not making a judgement, just an observation.

 

Nobody is right here, they should probably all be dealt with according to the severity of their crime but that truck driver should be jailed.

 

Linz

 

[tallman]

I'd be willing to bet a large sum of money that "if" we were capable of going to that particular road (maybe stop by that church full of parishioners?) and ask if they think the bikes are a problem we would find plenty of locals willing to bend our ears. Heck, besides the two involved I saw three more in the opposite direction in just that short video. Take your video camera out, turn it on and ride down a road and see if you come across five sport bikes in nine minutes. Not too likely.

 

Another way to verify whether the problem is real or perceived would be to review a couple of year's worth of accident data for that stretch of road. If there are not accidents to back up people's feelings, the problem is more one of viewpoint. Most people do not have the advantage of your experience for estimating speeds, and just decide that all those bikes are going "Way to fast". And they might be........But untrained witnesses are not the best source of hard data. Just sayin'.

 

And this sounds like the naysayers from N Ga a couple years ago wrt sportbikes.

News/tv crews went out w/radar and detected bikes in excess of 130mph.

Don't need to be an expert sometimes to observe the truth.

 

[w2ge]

^^Amen... C'mon, if ANY of you think they were within the speed limit... you're just lying to yourselves...

 

I'm not fast at all (well.. a little, but compared to some I ride with) and I'm over the speed limit... THEY WERE FLYING! Would bet all the money in the world... (and I know that is a SAFE bet!)

[BailyD]

 

I'd be willing to bet a large sum of money that "if" we were capable of going to that particular road (maybe stop by that church full of parishioners?) and ask if they think the bikes are a problem we would find plenty of locals willing to bend our ears. Heck, besides the two involved I saw three more in the opposite direction in just that short video. Take your video camera out, turn it on and ride down a road and see if you come across five sport bikes in nine minutes. Not too likely.

Yes, if you ask them they will respond. My point is that when I see or experience problems in my city I call the authorities, and my city is small enough that it usually doesn't take long for them to respond. You don't have to come and ask me. So maybe that town is being inundated with complaints about bikers on that road, or maybe not. I didn't see evidence, other than one red neck pickup truck driver, that people there think there is a problem. If the parents on that road are telling Jenny and Bobby to get inside when the bikers ride by maybe there is problem there, and they should contact the authorities.

 

It has been my experience most people do not want to bother the police, but instead just live with a "quality of life" issue. They feel they are being bothersome by calling the police, but when I make it into their neighborhoods and make myself open to face to face encounters I find they have much to say. It gets back to "getting out of the patrol car". People see a police car and that is their only perception, a marked car not a person. Many times I put myself in their neighborhood, dismounted from my bike next to their sidewalks. When this is done they LOVE to stop and talk about their problems.

 

Just my experience.....

[4wheeldog]

I'd be willing to bet a large sum of money that "if" we were capable of going to that particular road (maybe stop by that church full of parishioners?) and ask if they think the bikes are a problem we would find plenty of locals willing to bend our ears. Heck, besides the two involved I saw three more in the opposite direction in just that short video. Take your video camera out, turn it on and ride down a road and see if you come across five sport bikes in nine minutes. Not too likely.

 

Another way to verify whether the problem is real or perceived would be to review a couple of year's worth of accident data for that stretch of road. If there are not accidents to back up people's feelings, the problem is more one of viewpoint. Most people do not have the advantage of your experience for estimating speeds, and just decide that all those bikes are going "Way to fast". And they might be........But untrained witnesses are not the best source of hard data. Just sayin'.

 

And this sounds like the naysayers from N Ga a couple years ago wrt sportbikes.

News/tv crews went out w/radar and detected bikes in excess of 130mph.

Don't need to be an expert sometimes to observe the truth.

 

So get the news crews out, or a cop with a radar gun. My point was, how much of a problem there is or isn't should not be decided by asking subjective witnesses. Ask me if old people drive slow, and I will remember every old man in a hat I have seen in 6 months. That is not objective data.

Were they speeding? Of course they were. Most of us do, to one degree or another. Safety and legality are not necessarily synonymous.

[Mike]

If the issue in this video is, "who ever did something illegal needs to face judgment", the both parties will go to court. But if the issue is, "some 'crimes' are worse than others", then that's a different story. Since when is death the penalty for speeding? Since when is taking the law into your own hands and putting motorcyclists in a situation where they endanger their lives having to run from a mad trucker the same level of legal infraction as crossing the double yellow?

 

How anyone can equate the actions of the trucker and the motorcyclists is beyond me.

 

Just because none are innocent doesn't mean all are equally as guilty.

 

I pretty much agree with everything you've said. As discussed in another thread here, there's a fundamental problem with the level of anger and aggression on the road. The bikers were clearly going waaay fast, easily in the range where speeding tickets would be justified. However, the law does not give Joe Sixpack the right to act as an executioner of those whose driving/riding happens to piss him off.

[pokorskij]

"Since when is death the penalty for speeding?" Your question.

 

Answer: Ask any of the family members of those motorcyclists who have lost control due to excess speed (above the speed limit) that have crashed and died.

 

Too ofter we forget that a simple careless action can have deadly consequences. Not always, but the possibility is always there.

 

JMHO

 

[Mike]

"Since when is death the penalty for speeding?" Your question.

 

Answer: Ask any of the family members of those motorcyclists who have lost control due to excess speed (above the speed limit) that have crashed and died.

 

Too ofter we forget that a simple careless action can have deadly consequences. Not always, but the possibility is always there.

 

JMHO

 

Undoubtedly. I wouldn't suggest that the type of riding exhibited in the video should be engaged in on public roads. It certainly carries risks for the rider and others with whom he shares the road. But, the truck driver decided that it was appropriate for him to "enforce" the law by intentionally putting a speeder at risk of death. There's simply no justification for that.

[pokorskij]

And in my opinion I just want everyone to take responsibility for their own action. I do not want to debate who is wrong or right, or the magnitude of the wrong. Some one asked the question of "When is death the punishment for speeding" and I offered an answer.

 

 

[beemerman2k]

And in my opinion I just want everyone to take responsibility for their own action. I do not want to debate who is wrong or right, or the magnitude of the wrong. Some one asked the question of "When is death the punishment for speeding" and I offered an answer.

 

 

Plenty of people crash and die simply by driving a car or riding a motorcycle well within the speed limit, are they being punished too?

 

And by whom are all these people being punished in your mind: God? Father Physics? Who?

 

And given that this same agent (God, Father Physics, etc) failed to punish these motorcyclists in this video, what are we to conclude about this "system of justice" you promote?

 

Is this pickup truck driver in the video the deliverer of the "punishment" you espouse?

[pokorskij]

As I stated "take responsibility for your actions", so the punishment seems to have been handed out by the individual, not anyone else. Not looking for, nor interested in a debate on morals, religion or any other subject.

 

You used the term punishment in your question, not I. I gave you an example. Now you want to add that others suffer a deadly fate and were not doing anything illegal, so what? It doesn't change my position, take responsibility for your own actions.

 

These are my last comments on the discussion, and are JMHO.

 

 

[beemerman2k]

I'm trying to make sense of your position.

 

Who is failing to "take responsibility for their actions" in that video? The motorcyclists? Is the fact that they made this video of the rogue trucker and released it to the public evidence in your eyes that they are not taking responsibility for their actions? There does not seem to be any apparent acknowledgement on their part at any point in the video of any wrong doing they may have engaged in.

 

Is the pickup truck driver responsible for any consequences for his flagrant violation of several laws in that video?

 

If your ultimate point is that all of them are guilty of something and need to pay for it, then we are in total agreement. If your point is, the motorcyclists deserved to have that trucker run them off the road as fitting punishment for their actions, then I suppose we do differ on this issue.

 

btw: death is often a consequence of speeding, but I think it's a stretch to say it's a punishment. To have a punishment, there has to be a punisher and a punishee.

[Mike]

Looks like pokorskij has stepped out of the conversation, but I'm also a little puzzled by his posts. Maybe he's answering a different question than what I saw in your post.

 

I see it the way you do--death or serious injury is often the consequence of driving or riding like a nincompoop. However, an attempt to kill or hurt another, born of anger over bad driving or riding, is simply evil.

[w2ge]

You guys should see how this "issue" is being discussed on another forum I'm on... A Cruiser forum. Everyone their is talking how they "all-carry" and when the trucker got out of his truck, they would have killed him...

 

(Not sure if you guys will be able to read thread because certain parts of the forum are for members only)

 

http://www.volusiariders.com/54-general-motorcycle-discussion/215103-here-vid-we-all-need-watch.html

[GRB60]

So...go from almost being a victim (but completely unharmed) to going to jail for a long time? I don't think I want to hang out with those guys; they aren't very smart.