Rethinking " loud pipes -save lives"

[SuperG]

Quoting:

"The argument in favor of loud pipes is that because you can't avoid all the idiots out there, you are better off making a loud noise to force them to notice you."

 

I have to say Gosh Darn it! again .. today an other car driver wanted to occupy the same lane same spot I was in, going down in mid Sunday traffic at 45 mph.

Lately it seems to me I am and my bike is a magnet for stupid car drivers that do not check or see a motor cycle in the lane next to them.

 

This time my daughter was in the passenger seat. she said "daddy i almost had a heart attack" when a mid age female driver (not texting) wanted to push us off the road.

 

I am safety minded when riding a bike; I have very bright aux lights mounted and almost always ride just slightly behind the vehicle in the next lane so should they decide to swing over i won't get run over. But often traffic moves and a vehicle ends up next to me. I also normally keep my thumb right next to the horn button in heavy traffic but not this time, I was occupied clutching and focusing on the three lane traffic.

 

Would I have a loud pipe on my bike? Would the driver of this car known that there is a motorcycle near her somewhere and have paid more attention to me?

[russell_bynum]

Ask a fireman if anyone ever pulls out in front of their big ass fire truck when they're rolling with lights, and siren...then decide if a 2-foot aluminum cylinder is going to make any difference on your motorcycle.

 

 

The solution is to stop riding like a cage driver. You don't have mass on your side. You don't have size. You don't have crash protection.

 

What you do have is agility and acceleration...and your narrow width. Use what you've got. When someone starts to move into your lane, move over into the gap between lanes and accelerate away. Sitting there doing passive stuff like wearing bright clothing having extra lights, and a loud pipe might accidentally help you, but why chance it? Take your life out of the other people's hands and put it into your own.

[Peter Parts]

One view you never hear in these interminable oil-thread-sized discussions is: the middle way.

 

For sure, muffler-free bikers are a curse on us all. But equally, there ARE many occasions where I can see that I am getting the attention of other drivers because of noise.

 

I've taken a middle course for the last 40 years or so, using straight-through pipes but with good sound control.

 

Not easy to buy (or build) mufflers with a nice sound that isn't too loud and to maintain that sound control. And acoustics is a science that not too many people understand well. Fortunately, there are great new materials like ceramic foam you can buy today.

 

Ben

[Quinn]

Sounds like you are riding in their blind spot. Even if you're not, they would have to look in their mirrors, see you, recognize that you're a vehicle and threat, and then chose to respect your right to exist.

 

Besides the loud pipes, I see ridings using the a*hole strategy to get driver's attention. Weaving in and out of lanes, irratic speed, etc. can get people to notice you and avoid getting close to you. At least it works on me when I'm in a car.

 

---

 

 

[dirtrider]

Morning Sustengo?

 

If the other driver is “already looking for a motorcycle” then maybe the added loud exhaust will help a bit. As a rule the other driver won’t even hear it until you pass them and if they do it might be coming in from another direction. If you are on the right of a driver but he/she has the left window cracked the noise will sound like it’s on that drivers left side so they might swerve right thinking the noise vehicle is on their left. Always leave yourself an out and you won’t ever have a problem with a cage drive coming over on you.

 

I think Russell explained it in pretty plain language. Don’t ride like a car driver.

 

[johnlt]

You can fix a lot of things, but you can't fix "stupid".

[RockBottom]

Since no government agency or insurance company which does traffic safety for a living subscribe to the notion that loud motorcycles are safer, so logic holds that for the statement "loud pipes save lives" to be true, all of these thousands of professionals would have to be incompetent.

 

Everyone can make their own decision on the probability of this being true.

 

I can also say that in 750K miles or so of driving, there is never a time I avoided an accident with a loud motorcycle that I otherwise might have had.

 

Finally, most of the noise from a loud muffler is at the lower end of the range. The human brain can't locate very deep noises. That's the reason it doesn't matter where you put a subwoofer in a room. So while drivers might know something is out there, the chances of them locating it in a split second are minimal.

 

[Polo]

There is not one iota of truth in that. (about loud pipes, not about the impossibility to fix stupidity)

 

Yesterday, I went to Kerrville to meet some friends who rode from Monterrey, Mexico to tour the Hill Country.

 

As I was looking for their hotel, I rode a couple of blocks behind two Harleys with open pipes. It was down right uncomfortable to be behind those loud and obnoxious mufflers.

 

I led them on a route to show off our beautiful countryside with some rather mild curves, as one of them was a self admitted novice, and asked to take it easy. I expressed my admiration and reassure him that it was the right attitude, and invited him to ride right behind me and we devised a code of signals with the turn lights for him to communicate his level of comfort or needs.

 

Well, we started off with all the thunderous blipping of throttles that typically surrounds these bikes. I was cursing my Stars for the grueling noise I would endure the next few hours. However, once we started rolling, the noise faded.

 

So, in conclusion, the loud pipes are great if you are trying to alert those behind you. Just think about it for an instant. The exhaust is expelled backwards, and you are moving forward. Noise is projected let's say spherically in waves, so as you proceed forward the noise is left behind.

 

If the drivers you are concerned with aren't sufficiently attentive to observe their periphery, what makes you think they will react to an untraceable rumble, assuming that they can hear it over their radio, or conversation with another occupant.

 

Russel makes a very good point about fire trucks, and those are equipped with sirens many decibels louder than those pipes, and pointing forward to boot.

 

I can't see the logic in "loud pipes save lives". Caca de Toro.

[Dennis Andress]

You can fix a lot of things, but you can't fix "stupid".

 

What he said. I've ridden with a loud muffler and found that it did help, occasionally. Certainly not often enough to justify only to be heard.

 

In the end, there are two rules to long life motorcycling:

1.) Anything that moves can kill you.

2.) Get the f--- out of the way.

 

Dennis

[Firefight911]

Since I actually drive said big red fire truck allow me to chime in;

 

Loud Pipes Kill Our Sport

 

All the lights, sirens, flashy colored clothing, etc. do not make you safe. Being proactive does. Do not ride like a cager drives, never go with the flow of traffic (always slightly faster or slightly slower), never remain in formation with another car EVER and spend your money on a proper riding course performed on a track instead of wasting it on a loud pipe that won't work.

[Danny caddyshack Noonan]

(always slightly faster or slightly slower)

 

+1. Always, if at all possible. This makes you stick out like a sore thumb. When riding a LEO bike I always did this or, and rarely, slow enough that traffic had to move past me (always for a reason). If you are totally stuck in a lemming group and can't get out, change lanes or position in the lane from time to time to make yourself visible.

 

Having ridden loud dirt/enduro bikes and quads years ago I can attest to the fatigue factor that loud pipes also bring to bear. They may hear you but, you may be too tired to react.

 

 

[Costa]

Ask a fireman if anyone ever pulls out in front of their big ass fire truck when they're rolling with lights, and siren...then decide if a 2-foot aluminum cylinder is going to make any difference on your motorcycle.

 

 

The solution is to stop riding like a cage driver. You don't have mass on your side. You don't have size. You don't have crash protection.

 

What you do have is agility and acceleration...and your narrow width. Use what you've got. When someone starts to move into your lane, move over into the gap between lanes and accelerate away. Sitting there doing passive stuff like wearing bright clothing having extra lights, and a loud pipe might accidentally help you, but why chance it? Take your life out of the other people's hands and put it into your own.

 

+1

The best advise I have read in a very long time.

[Peter Parts]

snip

 

I can also say that in 750K miles or so of driving, there is never a time I avoided an accident with a loud motorcycle that I otherwise might have had.

 

I can see Rockbottom has some knowledge of woofers but is struggling to understand proper inference.

 

There are lots of things insurance companies do not study, and that includes the possible value of loud pipes. I am prepared to say with absolute conviction that high beams and loud pipes aid conspicuity.

 

But I find BOTH quite offensive and bad in a larger systems sense.

 

On the other hand, of all the unreliable judgments this side of air filter mods, Rockbottom trying to remember something that never happened seems, ah.... unreliable.

 

I have a few miles under my belt too and maybe once a week I see a sign of surprise on a motorist's face when they notice me and sometimes it seems noise related... but who can really tell? Of course, I drive so that I am never too close to anybody who would be surprised to find me there, if you know what I mean.

 

For sure, I see quiet BMWs that do seem to surprise motorists from time to time.

 

But we seem to be getting all polarized on the topic (OK, the loud pipe guys are in hiding mostly). Nobody want to address the middle-way that I find makes sense?

 

Ben

rainy in Toronto

 

Footnote: I combine my somewhat louder pipes with mods to lower my power band. Therefore, I can drive around in built-up areas in lower rpms and make less noise.

[Costa]

Since I actually drive said big red fire truck allow me to chime in;

 

Loud Pipes Kill Our Sport

 

All the lights, sirens, flashy colored clothing, etc. do not make you safe. Being proactive does. Do not ride like a cager drives, never go with the flow of traffic (always slightly faster or slightly slower), never remain in formation with another car EVER and spend your money on a proper riding course performed on a track instead of wasting it on a loud pipe that won't work.

 

+1

Here is another great advise to follow at ALL times even when driving a car.I follow this rule for many years as I drive over 60.000 miles a year in a car because of my job.

[RedMac]

I agree with the previous poster. You are riding *right* in their blind spot if you are slightly behind them on the side. Absolutely worst place to be in terms of visibility.

 

Most people do NOT use their side mirrors as blind spot mirrors as they are intended for.

 

http://www.linquist.net/motorsports/tech/mirrors/

 

The majority of people use them as "auxiliary rear view mirrors" instead of blind spot mirrors. I've been trying to teach my wife this *unsuccessfully* for years. At least I was able to teach my two kids how to properly set their side mirrors.

 

I'll either drop back a ways from a car on my side, or pull up so I'm slightly ahead of them if I can. The two times I've had cars "pull over" on me I was in fact in their blind spot. I avoid that spot like the plague...

[Gregori]

Forget loud pipes, neon clothing, bright lights, etc. You are depending on someone else to notice, care, and respond appropriately.

This may happen if you're a threat or danger to them (ie, a cop) but otherwise most people are too self-absorbed to notice anything that isn't within 12 feet of their hood.

 

My rules for staying alive on a bike are:

(1) Ride like you're invisible - because you are.

(2) It's always their right of way. (Also known as the rule of tonnage.)

(3) Never get mad at them. If cripples your judgement, and they (probably) didn't do it on purpose.

(4) When all else fail, twist the right wrist - hard.

[EddyQ]

I am safety minded when riding a bike; I have very bright aux lights mounted and almost always ride just slightly behind the vehicle in the next lane so should they decide to swing over i won't get run over. But often traffic moves and a vehicle ends up next to me.

 

I'm not sure I have the exact picture here. But it almost seems like you are making a spot ahead of you where a vehicle could fit.

Around here, if a car can fit, it will go there even if it is rather unsafe for you. It works that way in a cage too.

I'd say a better spot would be slightly ahead of the vehicle in the next lane and be prepared for him to come anyway.

 

As for loud pipes. Most the loud sound goes towards your rear and wouldn't help much with getting noticed if the car was ahead of you.

I had a bike that was loud once. It was just an annoyance to me and the folks behind me.

[na1g]

Get horny. Loud horns are a lot more effective than loud pipes. A blast on one of those 138dB Stebel tooters may well be your best bet in getting someone's attention. Why every motorcycle manufacturer doesn't equip their bikes with suitably loud horns is beyond me. It would cost 50 cents more to make the horn loud and another 50 cents to wire it properly. Instead we get the bleat of a dying goat. It's not the place to save a buck.

 

pete

[russell_bynum]

Get horny. Loud horns are a lot more effective than loud pipes. A blast on one of those 138dB Stebel tooters may well be your best bet in getting someone's attention. Why every motorcycle manufacturer doesn't equip their bikes with suitably loud horns is beyond me. It would cost 50 cents more to make the horn loud and another 50 cents to wire it properly. Instead we get the bleat of a dying goat. It's not the place to save a buck.

 

pete

 

Again...talk to a fireman and ask if people ever pull out in front of their fire truck when they have their huge siren and horn blaring...then tell me how a pathetic little plastic horn is going to make any difference.

 

Besides...for a horn to work, the person has to not only hear it, but then figure out where it is coming from, look in that direction, recognize what's going on, and then react appropriately.

 

That's an awful lot of stuff that has to go your way. More than likely they either won't hear it, won't know where it is coming from, or you'll just startle them and they'll jerk the wheel in a random direction. I saw that happen a few weeks ago. A car in the carpool lane tried to make a lane change to the right...where another car was. The other car honked. The car in the carpool lane swerved violently...into the K-rail...then rebounded right back out into traffic where they were hit broadside by the car that honked at them in the first place. Good thing the other car was a car and not a bike with a loud horn.

 

The time you spend honking could otherwise be spent getting away from the threat.

[SuperG]

I am trying to ride behind the back bumper of the car, should they need to make a lane change they have space and don't run me over, but as it was just mentioned it lets people sneak in Chicago style( yes I lived there i know how they drive).

 

When it is busy traffic often I don't have the luxury to negotiate my position in the lane - fore and aft- simply because lanes of traffic shift and the car front of me or behind does not always allow to slow or speed ahead. the traffic in the next lane may have moved forward where a car is directly next to me now.

 

It is simply unavoidable. Finger on the horn and sound it on the first sign of movement. I hear ya about the horn not being adequate, but if you are boxed in there is not much that can be done.

 

[russell_bynum]

It is simply unavoidable. Finger on the horn and sound it on the first sign of movement. I hear ya about the horn not being adequate, but if you are boxed in there is not much that can be done.

 

Very few drivers are comfortable driving so close together that a motorcycle will not fit between them. As a result...being truly "boxed in" is extremely rare.

 

Like I said...stop thinking like a cage driver. You don't need a spot that is six and a half feet wide like a car does. You need need half that...at most.

[beemerman2k]

Like I said...stop thinking like a cage driver.

 

I would argue that this is the most common problem among motorcyclists I see on the roads. I observe how they ride and it is often quite obvious that they are riding that motorcycle in the same way they would drive a car. They assume that if they simply stay in their lane and in their spot, like they would in their car, that other traffic will follow suit. They exhibit the same passive attitude, the same lack of active situational awareness, the same following of the herd.

 

Then I see the BMW rider, usually on a GS, and that person is the epitome of an active rider with an active mind actively observing traffic and actively taking matters into his/her own hands by riding actively and not passively. "now that's what I'm talkin' about" is what I think to myself.

[russell_bynum]

I haven't really noticed any brand/model correlation, but I definitely notice that commuters are much more likely to "get it" than people who ride on the weekends for fun.

 

Living somewhere that splitting is legal probably helps because you get used to looking at that space between lanes as a perfectly viable place for you to go.

 

It's about making two conscious decisions:

1. The only person responsible for my wellbeing is me.

and

2. They're not going to F***ing get me. Period.

[WaXD]

Since I actually drive said big red fire truck allow me to chime in;

 

Loud Pipes Kill Our Sport

 

All the lights, sirens, flashy colored clothing, etc. do not make you safe. Being proactive does. Do not ride like a cager drives, never go with the flow of traffic (always slightly faster or slightly slower), never remain in formation with another car EVER and spend your money on a proper riding course performed on a track instead of wasting it on a loud pipe that won't work.

 

+2, I always ride slightly faster... always. I've found if I ride slower that I'll find the jerk that is texting on his phone and I've had many close calls doing this. Plus there is the added problem of getting boxed in, if you ride a little faster than traffic you can control your own surroundings much better.

 

Now if I could only figure out how to keep teenage girls and deer from pulling out in front of me!

[RockBottom]

 

There are lots of things insurance companies do not study, and that includes the possible value of loud pipes. I am prepared to say with absolute conviction that high beams and loud pipes aid conspicuity.

 

 

We'll agree to disagree. I find it inconceivable that it hasn't occurred to organizations whose primary mission is to reduce accidents--not only insurance companies but government traffic safety boards and the Motorcycle Safety Foundation--to study and endorse something that is known to increase safety.

[w2ge]

Loud Pipes ANNOY Lives... (and are killing our sport) I.E. Regulation from every little piss ant town to come up with their own legislation about loud pipes..

 

They DO NOT save lives.. that is tomfoolery to believe that.. as was said the sound only comes from behind. I lead groups of riders all the time (I'm the Ride Captain for a Club) Do you think I can hear at all the bikes behind me?? Not a chance..

 

I am certainly not being as nice, or eloquent in my argument as Rockbottom and others... Why, cause it doesn't warrant it. This has got to stop; the LOUD PIPES argument... Myth.

 

AW, what the hell.. I did some googling for you:

 

The American Motorcyclist Association, The Hurt Report, and many riders and bikers themselves oppose loud pipes. The AMA has gone so far as to make a policy statement on the issue which reads " The [AMA] believes that few other factors contribute more to misunderstanding and prejudice against the motorcycling community than excessively noisy motorcycles". They then go on to say, "Shifting blame and failing to adopt responsible policies on a voluntary basis can only result in greater prejudice and discrimination against motorcycling. The consequences of continuing to ignore this issue will likely result in excessively rigorous state and federal standards, ……[and] abusive enforcement of current laws and other solutions undesirable to riders and the motorcycle industry"

 

What this shows is that there is a bigger issue at hand, namely, the noise issue, and it's impact on all of us who ride. And sadly too, their prediction has come true in many cases, I found several articles within just the first hour of researching this issue, on jurisdictions that have enacted noise related ordinances directed against motorcycles while other vehicles remained less regulated. Several sources noted events from the last Sturgis rally, an event noted for it's tolerance and even open acceptance of the biker crowd. It seems the state and local authorities really cracked down on violators, more so than in previous years and the biggest offence cited and fined was for excessive exhaust noise. As one writer put it, it must have been just like shooting fish in a barrel (for the police).

 

And: According to the Hurt report is was determined that 77% of motorcycle accident hazards come from in front of the rider, while only 3% approach from the rear. What's interesting here is that motorcycle pipes direct the vast majority of sound backwards where the least danger is, so for loud pipes to be truly effective safety measures they would need to be pointed forward where the greatest danger lies. That doesn't do much to support the proposition that loud pipes are a safely factor. The other serious problem I have with this supposition is that it is, at best, a secondary safety measure, not a primary or proactive measure. Assuming that the other driver will act with caution once you have identified your presence by the sound of your bike roaring up from behind is foolhardy at best. That's like assuming that if you were to wear a bright yellow safety vest, or full riding gear, you can relax because now you're protected! Lets face it, the best protection you have is that 3 pounds of grey matter between your ears, that and a constant awareness of your surrounding, and acting on the supposition that the rest of the motorists in the world are all idiots and its up to you and you alone to ensure your safety on the road. Relying on the other guy to act reasonably or safely just because you're making more noise than those around you is just asking for trouble!

[Matts_12GS]

Loud pipes wake wives...

How the hell can you sneak home drunk on your bike with a set of house rattling pipes?

 

BMW should market their bikes that way...

 

My vote is with Russell on this one... Don't think like them. They can't hit you if you aren't there, so stay where the cars aren't

[Groanup]

Forget loud pipes, neon clothing, bright lights, etc. You are depending on someone else to notice, care, and respond appropriately.

This may happen if you're a threat or danger to them (ie, a cop) but otherwise most people are too self-absorbed to notice anything that isn't within 12 feet of their hood.

 

My rules for staying alive on a bike are:

(1) Ride like you're invisible - because you are.

(2) It's always their right of way. (Also known as the rule of tonnage.)

(3) Never get mad at them. If cripples your judgement, and they (probably) didn't do it on purpose.

(4) When all else fail, twist the right wrist - hard.

Yup, that pretty much covers it...

[FLrider]

 

and almost always ride just slightly behind the vehicle in the next lane ...

 

Maybe you are in their blind spot? Maybe ride a little further behind? Just thinking about what you said.

[Peter Parts]

Well, I seem to be the only here who thinks a bit of noise is a good thing. And I'm still chuckling about the guy who loves the research the insurance industry, our buddies, do on bike safety. Moreover, it is hard to take seriously people who deny that noxious gestures like high beams and loud pipes aid conspicuity; not nice to say silly things just because it supports your argument. They do aid conspicuity and they are noxious.

 

Perhaps I should add that I am also someone who might just be profoundly disadvantaged by loud pipes in the here-and-now:

 

we just bought a condo in a place in Delray Eeach, Florida, where nobody is quite sure what to do about bikes, but everyone is quite certain that the rules officially prohibit them.

 

Very few bikes in that part of Florida have working mufflers. Maybe one in 15. Can you blame the other condo owners, mostly elderly, if they bitch about my machine when I bring it down next winter?

 

So if anybody has reason to worry about loud pipes, its got to be me.

 

Ben

yup, I remember when we were barred from the Garden State Parkway near where I lived at the time. Bad old days. Umm, the "right" to loud pipes has to be part of the thinking by the people who think it is their right to surgery and rehab at public expense if they have no helmet when they crash.

 

 

 

 

[ThomasJ]

Since I actually drive said big red fire truck allow me to chime in;

 

Loud Pipes Kill Our Sport

 

All the lights, sirens, flashy colored clothing, etc. do not make you safe. Being proactive does. Do not ride like a cager drives, never go with the flow of traffic (always slightly faster or slightly slower), never remain in formation with another car EVER and spend your money on a proper riding course performed on a track instead of wasting it on a loud pipe that won't work.

 

+2, I always ride slightly faster... always. I've found if I ride slower that I'll find the jerk that is texting on his phone and I've had many close calls doing this. Plus there is the added problem of getting boxed in, if you ride a little faster than traffic you can control your own surroundings much better.

 

Now if I could only figure out how to keep teenage girls and deer from pulling out in front of me!

 

Have a couple related questions...

 

will officer friendly also feel that riding slightly faster is the best approach?

The first superslab ride with my wife was from Auburn to West Sacramento on a Saturday afternoon a couple years back...ended up doing 80+ trying to stay just ahead of the flow...wife wasn't overly pleased and I was forever worrying about getting pulled over.

 

The other question...I see many comments about taking control of the riding situation: "What you do have is agility and acceleration...and your narrow width. Use what you've got. When someone starts to move into your lane, move over into the gap between lanes and accelerate away. Sitting there doing passive stuff like wearing bright clothing having extra lights, and a loud pipe might accidentally help you, but why chance it? Take your life out of the other people's hands and put it into your own."

How do you do this without being overly aggressive?

 

Thanks...good thread

Tom

[russell_bynum]

On what the Law thinks about it...I will very happily be alive to have that conversation with any LEO who decides that my speed and/or maneuvers are not up to his/her standards.

 

That said...I have received one ticket on the bike in over a hundred thousand miles...much of that while commuting. That one ticket wss for going close to 100mph all by myself on the freeway.

 

I've only been pulled over one other time on the bike and that was for moving through fairly heavy traffic at around 85 (traffic speed was probably 55ish). I did not get written for that because I was the first rider he'd pulled over all day who had a license and insurance...not to mention protective gear.

 

In other words...in my miles, the LEO's don't seem to care if I go a bit faster than traffic. And if they do...well...like I said...I'd rather be alive to have that conversation than for them to put "at least he didn't break any traffic laws" on my headstone.

 

As for how to do it without being aggressive...it's your life...be aggressive.

 

 

[moshe_levy]

Russ' point hit home today. I literally saw a woman pull out and cut off a fire truck, screaming down the road, all horns and sirens blazing. By the time she realized what she had done, said truck had to swerve (a scary sight) into oncoming traffic, which in turn swerved to avoid said truck. She wasn't on the phone, or very old. Just completely ***unaware.*** So my retina-melting jacket color, Stebel horn, and all the whiz-bank lights... Puhleeze!

 

I haven't been commuting this year. Third daughter on the way and I've cut my riding down quite a bit. I will say, it's having the opposite effect. When I do go out weekend warrior, I'm dull compared to when I was commuting, dodging semis on the NJ Turnpike in rush hour for 110 miles per day. That makes you sharp, in a hurry. And your awareness of danger, when practiced, is indeed your first line of ***active*** defense. Russ is right - commuters get it, others do not.

 

-MKL

[WaXD]

 

Have a couple related questions...

 

will officer friendly also feel that riding slightly faster is the best approach?

Tom

 

I have close to 100K on a bike and my results are pretty much the same as Russell's. I have one ticket and that was while out in the open away from traffic. I don't speed all the time only when the conditions require it, typically I'm riding about 65-70 mph, maybe 5-10 faster than the flow.

[ellaguru2u]

I'm in two minds over the loud pipe question.

The majority of times when cars have pulled out in front of me have been heavy traffic/urban environments.

I've hurried through traffic like this with twos n blues going on a very visible bike and they have still pulled out on me (like the fire truck).

At times like that I cant see that a loud pipe would have made a difference.

My wife offers the explanation that in built up areas its difficult to know where the siren sounding vehicle is coming from as the buildings reflect the sound.

On the open road at any speed most of your sound is left behind you so on a motorway/highway I would turn off the sirens and rely on blue lights/flashing headlights. Now I'm retired I rely on bright LED position lamps on the front and changing position on the road so cages can spot lights & movement and hopefully I stand a better chance.

[RockBottom]

Well, I seem to be the only here who thinks a bit of noise is a good thing. And I'm still chuckling about the guy who loves the research the insurance industry, our buddies, do on bike safety. Moreover, it is hard to take seriously people who deny that noxious gestures like high beams and loud pipes aid conspicuity; not nice to say silly things just because it supports your argument. They do aid conspicuity and they are noxious.

 

 

The issue under discussion isn't whether noise makes motorcycles more conspicuous. It's whether it makes them more conspicuous in a way that significantly increases safety. And like I said, if it makes sense to you that people who do traffic safety for a living haven't thought to look into something that is widely claimed to increase safety, knock yourself out.

[dirtrider]

The very last thing I want a cage driver to do is to hear or see me AFTER they start some stupid move. Once they commit to a move I want them to follow through be it a good or bad move. At least that makes them more predictable and easier to deal with or quickly get around. This is one reason I never use my horn or flash my lights at an errant MOVING driver.

 

If riding heads up it is a simple matter to ride around almost any intruding vehicle, it’s the darty unpredictable moves that are more difficult to deal with as not only don’t you know where they are going neither does any of the other 8+ vehicles around them.

 

The only thing worse than a driver that pulls out in front of you is a driver that pulls out in front of you then hears or sees you and STOPS short.

 

Let them do their stupid things I’ll just simply ride around them thank you.

 

 

 

 

[Bologna]

Loud pipes wake wives...

How the hell can you sneak home drunk on your bike with a set of house rattling pipes?

 

BMW should market their bikes that way...

 

My vote is with Russell on this one... Don't think like them. They can't hit you if you aren't there, so stay where the cars aren't

 

+2

[beemerman2k]

The only thing worse than a driver that pulls out in front of you is a driver that pulls out in front of you then hears or sees you and STOPS short.

 

Let them do their stupid things I’ll just simply ride around them thank you.

 

Big time +1. Ain't that the truth :smirk:

[tallman]

 

and almost always ride just slightly behind the vehicle in the next lane ...

 

Maybe you are in their blind spot? Maybe ride a little further behind? Just thinking about what you said.

 

NO.

Instead move forward where you are slightly ahead of the car next to you.

I try to avoid riding "next" to another vehicle for very long.

Nothing good comes from that.

.02

 

Loud Pipes?

I remember riding thru Orlando on a limited access road heading to a cloverleaf.

I heard it.

It was loud.

Very loud.

Very, very loud.

Where It was was a mystery as I could not see IT while actively looking for It.

It was loud for a long time but I never saw It.

There was very little traffic and I could see several parts of the various roads.

Never saw It.

I did hear It for over a minute.

Musta been Wonder Woman on her Invisible Bike...

[James Clark]

 

and almost always ride just slightly behind the vehicle in the next lane ...

 

Maybe you are in their blind spot? Maybe ride a little further behind? Just thinking about what you said.

 

NO.

Instead move forward where you are slightly ahead of the car next to you.

I try to avoid riding "next" to another vehicle for very long.

Nothing good comes from that.

.02

 

Loud Pipes?

I remember riding thru Orlando on a limited access road heading to a cloverleaf.

I heard it.

It was loud.

Very loud.

Very, very loud.

Where It was was a mystery as I could not see IT while actively looking for It.

It was loud for a long time but I never saw It.

There was very little traffic and I could see several parts of the various roads.

Never saw It.

I did hear It for over a minute.

Musta been Wonder Woman on her Invisible Bike...

 

[RPG]

the argument for loud pipes falls apart IMHO when you factor in that most cars aren't loud and are easier seen. If Loud Pipes do indeed save lives/make more noise, why not point them forward to warn us to get out of the way? Which the doppler effect would restrict anyway.

 

Instead, its an excuse to make your bike sound bad-ass and reinforce the poser attitude.

 

We have a Harley dealer right down the road from my cottage. So across the lake all day Saturday and Sunday, I get to listen to the reverberation of that V-Twin thunder bouncing off the walls as bikes travel east and west down US-12.

 

Not very pleasant I must admit.

 

"a quiet machine is a testament to complete Engineering"

 

RPG

[tallman]

 

[Ponch]

Loud pipes make me deaf(er). 

[MT Wallet]

I agree with Ponch, Loud pipes wreck ears.

[Dan5620]

Hey, just saw an ad in the recent VFW Magazine. For $29.95 you get a 30 day supply of BIG GROW pills. It says they really work...it enhances the male member beyond belief...they even send a measuring instrument to record the breath taking changes. HOWEVER, one major draw back: As one's member enlarges, one's motorcycle pipes get quieter. Apparently there's a reverse effect at play here?

[mrduck]

http://www.aerostich.com/loud-suits-save-lives.html

 

 

For my upcoming charity ride with my Harley riding co-workers !

 

 

 

 

Don J

 

 

 

 

[w2ge]

http://www.aerostich.com/loud-suits-save-lives.html

 

For my upcoming charity ride with my Harley riding co-workers !

 

Don J

 

 

PERFECT!

[FLrider]

Only those people who have never ridden a bike with loud pipes would argue that it doesn't get a cagers attention. Even if they are in front of you.

 

I know this because I routinely saw heads turn up and twist around, in cars ahead of me, as I approached because, yes, I had loud pipes and they apparently heard me coming.

 

I don't care what the insurance companies or AMA says. I doubt that they ever did a scientific study that could measured accurately.

 

Loud pipes may not save lives, but they sure help get you noticed.

 

I've had more close calls from cars pulling into my lane while riding what my HD friends call my "sewing machine", than I ever had on my Harleys.

[Peter Parts]

+1... but loud pipes (and high beams) are still noxious and when really loud, truly bad for your hearing.

 

There seems to be some confusion about directionality of sound with some people thinking the muffler sound kind of shoots out the back like a cannon!

 

There are some loose shadowing effects from bags and other pieces of the bike that slightly shape the loudness iso-contours, but generally the exhaust sound is pretty much in the round.

 

The situation is different with horns and the looney way they are rated - almost entirely commercial fantasyland. With one exception. True horns are quite directional. So I have a pair of "Maserati" air horns and compressor tucked behind the oil cooler. The blast forward is profound but the sound back to the rider is much more subdued.

 

Of course, there are times when I'd like to give the jerk tailgating behind me a blast of something.

 

Ben