mwood7800 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Dyna beads, anyone tried them? Link to comment
FrankBrown Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 A year ago Motorcycle Consumer News said they were worthless. Link to comment
Ponch Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Wow. I have never used them, but lots of guys did in the KawaNOW forum I used to belong to. Never heard a complaint. Link to comment
Arizona_oldguy Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I have been using them on my rt for 80,000 miles. love them. Ironhorse BMW in Tucson AZ also recommends and installs them if you wish, and they are a very service oriented dealership. Glenn Link to comment
ccii42104 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I have used them on my former 03 and 07 GTs and now on my 09 RT. I am very impressed with them so far. My two friends use them on their RT and GSA respectively. The only drawback is you can't use slime with them and slime works! I use them because i change my own rubber for myself and two BMW riding buddies. After 100k miles combined i recommend them. PM me if you have any questions. Link to comment
Twisties Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I've checked a number of the major moto tire websites. I thought I recalled that some specifically recommended against putting anything inside the tire to balance, including beads. I did not find that, but I don't see any that recommends using beads. You can reach your own interpretations: Dunlop states: Dunlop does not recommend the use of dry or liquid balancers/sealers and will not warrant tires into which these materials have been injected. Tire and wheel assembly balance must be checked with a balance stand or computer wheel balancer. Avon states: Despite the most stringent quality programs, most tyres and wheels have a ‘heavy’ spot that can cause vibration through your handlebars and frame. When fitting new tyres, always have them balanced – on the wheel – by a specialist Avon tyre fitter. Conti States: Balancing and tyre service are best performed by your Continental motorcycle tyre dealer who has the equipment and know-how. Ask your dealer to check the concentricity and balance of your tyre/wheel assembly after mounting. Do not use balancing liquids. Michelin's page is "Under Construction." Metzler states: Always balance each tire and wheel assembly upon installation. Unbalanced tire/wheel assemblies can vibrate at various speeds, resulting in accelerated tire wear. Metzeler does not recommend the use of liquid balancer or liquid balance/sealers. Manufacturing tolerances and normal use a motorcycle tire and wheel assembly can never be guaranteed to be perfectly round and balanced. Accordingly, Metzeler will not extend any warranty consideration for tires which have been injected with any type of liquid balancer or liquid balance/sealers. Pirelli states: Always balance each tire and wheel assembly upon installation. Unbalanced tire/wheel assemblies can vibrate at various speeds, resulting in accelerated tire wear. Pirelli does not recommend the use of liquid balancer or liquid balance/sealers. Manufacturing tolerances and normal use a motorcycle tire and wheel assembly can never be guaranteed to be perfectly round and balanced. Accordingly, Pirelli will not extend any warranty consideration for tires which have been injected with any type of liquid balancer or liquid balance/sealers. Link to comment
johnlt Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I spend a lot of time and ballance the wheel alone first, but only one time. Especially with TPM, the wheel needs to be ballanced. After checking a dozen tires/wheels on 3 different bikes, I've found that if the wheel is ballanced, the tire/wheel assembly stays very close to the same. I think the tire mfg processes are much better these days. IMHO Link to comment
Linz Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I use them in all my bikes. The Triumph was especially hard on tires. I added the beads and have doubled the mileage with a lot more tread to go. The test was done on two sets of PR2's. My BMW chewed through a set of ME880's in under 6000 miles, especially the front. I now run PR2's with Dyna Beads. It's too early to tell if there's any benefit other than a very smooth ride, but I'll report back. My Aprilia RS250 has very soft Pirelli Diablo Corsa's and Dyna Beads. I know that it handles like it's on rails and feels planted. I'm getting a very smooth ride. Tire life will have to be reported on later. Linz Link to comment
boatzo Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 There have been a lot of posts on these things. Based on the comments from those whom I feel are in the know, I do not want to use them. Besides that it looks to me that it is a PIA to insert them and what do you do if you have a tire changed? I bought a Marc Parnes balancer and feel very confident after I have done the balance procedure my self. I also agree with the post above about balancing the wheel with out the tire first. MHO Link to comment
Paul Mihalka Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I would try the Dyna Beads if someone could explain how and why they work. Link to comment
Jerry Duke Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Ya gotta love GOOGLE and YouTube Now whether it's the truth or not, is another question.... http://www.bestrestproducts.com/c-100-dyna-beads.aspx Link to comment
JayW Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 The tried-and-true method of attaching weights to balance a tire/wheel assembly is much simpler mechanically and seems more elegant to me. Dynabeads offers a solution to a problem that we don't have. Jay Link to comment
bubbamoore Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I've been using them since 06 , smooth riding with never any problem ( 89k miles ) , it's easy to just put them in while installing the tire , no need to go thru the valve stem . Have used them on Metzlers and Michelins .Only cost $6 to try. http://www.innovativebalancing.com/ Link to comment
Twisties Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Well, in the demo video there are a lot of differences from a real tire: A tire might be spinning at a significantly different rpm A tire is a much larger diameter, and a much larger width, and much larger mass A tire has a much softer and stickier interior The amount of beads would be about the same, but spread over a much larger area The weight imbalance might be about the same, but being at a much larger radius would create considerably different, and much larger forces than in the bottle. The beads however would also be at the larger radius and create different forces. It is not clear to me how the bottle demo, with the beads all scrunched together in a thick bed, represents a real world tire. I found the demo unconvincing. I would like to see a demo of a clearly unbalanced moto wheel/tire on a computer spin balancer. Mount, spin, and see what weight the balancer wants to apply. Add beads, spin, see that wheel spins smoothly and computer reads wheel as balanced. Repeat several times, and at various spin speeds (might take a research grade unit). Do this many times and check tire for interior wear, operate valve many times to simulate real use. Check valve for build up of dusts or clogging, or undue wear. I would like to see independent lab tests of this nature. I would like to know why the tire manufacturers are not on board with this. I have a hard time seeing why they would be against it if it worked well. All in all, call me skeptical. Link to comment
Linz Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Twisties, that would sure be a definitive test. I'd like to see it too. I only know what I've experienced and that's only been positive. Linz Link to comment
Twisties Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 There is certainly a large amount of testimonial evidence in favor of the beads, as well as several dealers using them. On the other hand, there are a large number of folk on this board that swear by never balancing at all. This suggests to me that proper balance is not discernible by ride feel. Just my pet theory of the day. Certainly truly poor balance is discernible, but I am talking about the possible presence of a gap between what is discernible, and what is achieved by a well balanced tire and wheel. Presumably this gap depends on tire pressures, load, bike design and type, tire selection, shock settings and shock condition, speed, wind, temperature, road surface and rider. Therefore it may vary all the time, be different for different riders on the same bike, and is certainly different on different bikes. Whether that gap would be significant to wear of anything (tires, wheels, brakes, bearings shocks), I have no idea. I do know that the tire manufacturers are not supporting the beads, and my read of Dunlop's statement is that use of the beads voids your tire warranty in the US (although interpretations of that exact language will certainly vary). I guess my point is that these bead companies have the resources to commission some proper testing, but I don't see the results posted on their websites. Why not? To me the absence is striking and... worrisome. I find their explanations of the technology to be confusing. I can't see that the tire people wouldn't jump on these technologies if they felt that they could. But they are not. Why? So, I am left with the idea that many users swear by these things, but I honestly don't know the value of their experiences, and have no way to judge that. It's that against the tire co's for me. In my book the bead co's have a hill to climb, and I don't see them climbing. Yeah, I would love an easier way to balance. But so long as these questions remain unaddressed, beads will not be for me. YMMV and happy riding! Link to comment
gordiet Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I use them on my 1200RT as well as my 2 other bikes (Valkyrie and a KZ1300, They work!! Always in balance no matter the wear as tires change during there life. Truckers have been useing them for years. GT Link to comment
elkroeger Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I would try the Dyna Beads if someone could explain how and why they work. Well it's obvious: They spread out. They're smart little buggers.... Honestly - I took physics in college. Someone point me to the principle by which they're supposed to work. It's gotta be there somewhere in a 1st year physics text. Link to comment
Antimatter Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I have a hard time visualizing how something inside a tire wouldn't move towards the heavier side of the tire, making the balance situation worse rather than better. I guess I'm a heretic - I don't balance street tires. I just slap them on and go. I do balance track tires, but I try to do so with the minimum of lead so as to reduce unsprung weight. Link to comment
elkroeger Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 ...Only cost $6 to try.... you can buy a can of bb's for $3. Link to comment
jjg3 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I don't balance street tires. I just slap them on and go. +1 I doubted there was any science behind these things, and like many other things in the motorcycle world (and elsewhere) there are some that swear by it, and some who call it snake oil but will concede your right to keep the economy going. I'm in the latter camp, but after having reviewed a thread on Mythbusters, I question my doubts about the science behind this product, but at least recognize that there may be some science behind it. But if they do work, even theoretically, then wouldn't any substance that flows work? Like simply dumping water in the tire, or Slime? I mean, why would little ceramic (or whatever they are) beads work and BBs (as was suggested before) or any other readily available but cheaper product not? Or is it that it only works if you spend enough money on the product? If BBs don't work but Dynabeads do, simply based on cost, then I imagine little balls made of gold would probably work really, really well. Mytbusters link I've used RideOn before which is purported to have some balancing properties. Not why I used it, but that's what they claim. Whatever else it may have or not done, it did not preform balancing for me. Link to comment
Twisties Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Good Link. No final answers, but good link. Link to comment
CoarsegoldKid Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 We should be able to put this balance no balance bead balance issue to rest. Why is this so difficult to confirm? There must be someone on this forum that has a high speed spin balance machine at their disposal. I don't or I would have done it already. New tire on wheel, insert beads, spin, determine where weight must be added. No weight needed for balance it must work. Try another wheel tire combination when available and do it again. Take a worn wheel/tire combination that has weights on the wheel and spin test it. If it needs weight then we know balance changes as tire wears. Add beads and re-spin. Post results. For the record I static balance my tires. Not every manufacture marks the valve stem spot. I have had several with no spots. Every tire I have installed on my bikes or other bikes has required weight. Some more than others. Weight is usually added at the same place time after time. Balancing the wheel and leaving that weight on forever should mean less weight needed for new tires. Would I know a balanced tire from a unbalanced tire? I'm not sure. Are worn tires out of balance? Slapping on a new tire without balancing and riding a few miles then remove and balance and test ride for comparison so too much work. Link to comment
Paul Mihalka Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I agree with the suggested testing procedure and I wonder why Dynabeads did not submit to a controlled motorcycle magazine test. Link to comment
elkroeger Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 ...or any other readily available but cheaper product ... Maybe a blob of good Louisiana mud? Or if you live West of the Rockies, California beach sand.... We could charge $6 a handful. Boy, if I had $6 for every scoop of sand I played with as a kid... Link to comment
bubbamoore Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 If given the choice between relying on a "scientific" test or the perfect balance I've already achieved on 10+ sets of tires I'll take the real world experience. Their web page tells the product is very small ceramic beads , being small they wont damage the tire from the inside and can spread out in a more uniform manner than say a can of BB's. Being ceramic they are very hard and not likely wear down. $6 may seem like a lot to some but compared to having your mechanic balance them or buying your own machine , it seems this would be a no brainer. You can even reuse them "once" . I've yet to hear 1 person with experience with this product say anything negative , everything else is just uninformed speculation. Try it once , if your experience is bad then we finally have something to talk about here. Link to comment
Twisties Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 If given the choice between relying on a "scientific" test or the perfect balance I've already achieved on 10+ sets of tires I'll take the real world experience. Their web page tells the product is very small ceramic beads , being small they wont damage the tire from the inside and can spread out in a more uniform manner than say a can of BB's. Being ceramic they are very hard and not likely wear down. $6 may seem like a lot to some but compared to having your mechanic balance them or buying your own machine , it seems this would be a no brainer. I've yet to hear 1 person with experience with this product say anything negative , everything else is just uninformed speculation. Try it once , if your experience is bad then we finally have something to talk about here. Did you read the last post of the mythbusters link? Link to comment
Deadboy Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Who says you achieved a perfect balance? Link to comment
Brick Pilot Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 I have used these in aircraft tires for years. I had to replace the front tire on the K1100Lt twice at less than 7500 mile because of cupping. After the first tire it was recommended to rebuild the front struts. I had that done. And the front tire started to show cupping again, started at about 2500 miles. Replaced the tire at 7020 miles. I installed the beads when this tire was installed. There is now 4560 on this tire and it looks like new. It just works, I know there is a Physics lesson I have been given, but I realy do not care, it works. Link to comment
Deadboy Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 http://www.nomartirechanger.com/products/9 I plan on using Dynabeads for balancing my tires. If I use the paste that comes with your m/d bar, I am worried that the beads may stick to the paste following installation and not allow the beads to work as intended. Can you offer any other suggestions for installing without paste, or does the paste sort of dry out after a short time period?-------------------------- Dean, Dynabeads do not work on motorcycle tires despite their faithful followers opinions. They can't work and it has been proven in published tests in Motorcycle Consumer News a few years ago. **What happens to the beads under hard acceleration? **What happens to the beads under Hard Stopping and re-acceleration? **What happens to the beads when there is a heavy spot in the tire that elongates the tire. They certainly don't move to the opposite side. **Have you ever tried to install a tire without tire lube? **Tests prove that there is better results with no beads and no weights than adding the beads. **It is faster and less frustrating using a static balancer than feeding the beads through your valve stem. **If they actually worked, or even worked better, Don't you think they would be the preferred way to balance a wheel? The beads were designed for non-pliable, non high speed rated Tractor Trailer tires which have a square tread design. (Which probably don't matter much anyway). Trailer companies generally do not balance trailer tires. It would be equivalent to balancing an ATV tire or a kids dirt bike tire. Many people want to believe the beads work like a "Magical Goo" spreading themselves amongst the tire and evening everything out. The only basis for this "wish" is the hope of an "easier softer way", instead of learning something new. There should not be any mystery in wheel balancing after kindergarten. It is the same principle as the "Teeter Totter". If two kids of equal weight are on each end they balance. If one kid is fatter, then he sinks to the ground. The fat kid won't lose weight (we've seen that before)so we need to add some weights to the skinny kid's side to get it to balance. It is the same with a wheel and tire on a static balancer. Heavy spot sinks to the bottom. Add weights to the top. Turn it a little and adjust the amount of weight until it will not move on it's own. Pro-Race teams have been using this method for years. It is fast, simple, and perfect. Steve ~Dean S. Link to comment
rocks Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 All in all, call me skeptical./quote] Glad you clarified Link to comment
SageRider Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Dean, Dynabeads do not work on motorcycle tires.... Nothing more than an opinion by the seller of a competing product. Hardly proof. An interesting video for a similar concept product: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skY6qvzpNXI&feature=related Link to comment
Twisties Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Interesting proof of concept for constant straight line speeds. Not clear what happens with acceleration, deceleration, or turns. There may be some differences with product confined to a race vs. free floating product however. Movement in two dimensions, wear on the tire interior, any issues with dusts or breakdown products, or sticking are not addressed, but still, I'd give this a major plus for progress. Thanks for finding that. Link to comment
SageRider Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 A competing product to DynaBeads: http://www.counteractbalancing.com/counteract/index.php This company specifies 1/2 ton or higher for vehicle applications so most motorcycles are out. Also differs from Dynabeads in that their product claims electrostatic cling between the beads, which might address Twisties questions as far as cornering / acceleration. Link to comment
Deadboy Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 A very credible seller with a long history of proven products in the mc market. I find it interesting how every time this product comes up a bunch of new members with very few posts appear to tell everyone how great these things are. Show me a video of a big time racer using them, or some other endoursement from a rider with sponsors and technicians who have decided this is a valid/credible prodict. Link to comment
tomk99r11 Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Well, I am not a new guy here and have used dyna beads on three bikes now, 2 tubeless, 1 tubed. The beads work. I find it interesting that some here don't understand something that others use and like and thereby infer it can't/doesn't work because they don't understand it. Comical at a minimum. Link to comment
SageRider Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Show me a video of a big time racer using them, or some other endoursement from a rider with sponsors and technicians who have decided this is a valid/credible prodict. From Dynabead's web site: "Can I use Dyna Beads for motorcycle road racing? No. The inner liner compound of motorcycle road racing tyres is too soft to allow Dyna Beads to perform properly. (this does not apply to off-road motorcycle racing)" Convenient for Dynabeads. One thing I have not seen: any proof or video that the beads do NOT work. I admit curiousity regarding: Performance of beads while cornering / leaned over. Effect on inner tire / rim surfaces from long term bead use. Effect on beads of NoMar's tire installation system which involves lubing the rim's wheel well. Link to comment
johnlt Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 I've changed several RT tires for a friend who swears by them. I was able to dismount the tire without loosing the beads, then he just removed them from the carcass and re-used them. I looked at the inside of the tire and did not notice any unusual wear. I do use no-mar past on the wheel "well" but the beads seem to stay in the tire area and do not touch the wheel anywhere. I've never used them so this is not a testimonial, just some additional info/comments. Link to comment
SageRider Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Thanks for the info, John. Brain fade on my part: "wheel well" should have been "wheel drop center". Glad you were able to understand anyway. Link to comment
Deadboy Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Don't "understand" or don't buy the hype.....it has been asked repeatedly every time this product is mentioned.....prove it works, it is an easy question that no one can provide a clear and easy link to. The folks that have used them are happy, that is great, however that is far from scientific or even a valid test. MCN says they don't work, numerous other credible sources say they don't work, but a small core group of believers insists they do......that is cool for them, but hardly convincing. This reminds me of the never ending K&N debate....long on rhetoric, short on evidence.... Link to comment
SageRider Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 From my earlier post: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skY6qvzpNXI&feature=related Proves to me the concept, which Dynabeads share, is valid. Link to comment
spdyjr Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Here's AN explanation. The heaviest part of the tire makes a greater footprint than the rest of the tire. imagine cutting through the tire across the tread at a point along the circumference. Then, stretching it out flat with the tread on the ground and the tire beads (where it meets the rim) stretched out above like handrails at the top of a trough. Now imagine the distortion of this tire trough at the footprint. Varying sized footprints are caused by centrifugal force and unequal mass along the tire strip. The unequal mass creates a traveling wave of a varying size that runs along the inner surface of the tire at road speed. The Dyna Beads, little ball bearings made of a hard ceramic having substantial mass, are displaced in proportion to the size of the wave. Once the wave is the same size along the length of the tire, it's balanced. I don't know if that explains it but I have a headache. Link to comment
spdyjr Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Man, I came in on the wrong part of this discussion. Link to comment
spdyjr Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Luckily, it's doubtful anyone will read this far on this subject, but for what it's worth, I've had good results with them and wouldn't balance my tires any other way. Link to comment
Kitsap Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 If it makes you happy use them. I find my bikes proximity to soapy water makes it run smoother. Link to comment
Chip Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Enough on Dyna Beads...how 'bout Deer Whistles? Link to comment
CoarsegoldKid Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Can you hear it? How bout now? One more pass. Link to comment
bubbamoore Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I have found that deer whistles make for lousy tire balancers , however the noise they make may actually scare the critters. Link to comment
Brick Pilot Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 The Military has used this method of ballancing highspeed tires for years. It is not new. I use it in my aircraft, I have 3. I also have a K1100lt that was eating front tires (cupping) in 7-8000 miles max. The cure was susposed to be rebuild the front forks, very expensive, and did not work. I had the bike at the hanger when a Good Year rep came by, and his remark was "you'r a dumb asse, you treat these just like you were going to fiy it". I put Dyna bead in it and it has 6000 and not the first sign of cupping and it improved the ride to boot. Tire mfgs are begining to see the light. The physics go to the Dyna bead web site. Link to comment
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