Mahle Filters

[terryofperry]

Ya'll are probably aware but the following company now has Mahle filters for our bikes. Air and oil.

 

http://www.vallantinemotorworks.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=6&zenid=v3k6223hh95dku5j4ibvk12jt5

 

Ride safely

 

 

 

 

[bobbybob]

Well, its nice that they can save us about $2 each over the OEM filters, but its still about 6 TIMES the cost of the Wally World filter I have used in my 07 RT since new (30K miles).

[Tetz]

I thought the Walmart brand was a little longer and stuck out the bottom a little more?

[bobbybob]

About 3/4"--not a problem.

[tallman]

And just a reminder for those under warranty, we had a board member have an issue w/repair because the substitute filter wasn't OEM.

 

Save the yadyayada, specs call for X and if you use Y and have a failure related to that, may be an issue.

Best wishes.

Carry on...

[Jerry Duke]

Why buy make a $15,000+ bike and then go cheap on a $20 item?

[Matts_12GS]

I like the Mahle filters I have used so far. Never an issue and they seem to fit the GS well.

[Boffin]

OEM filters are Mahle - at least, I have received Mahle branded filters from my UK BMW dealer in BMW boxes.

 

Andy

[JimD]

The factory filters I think are Mann not Mahle. You can get them cheaper from beemerboneyard.com than these filters are. It is always nice to have another vendor available.

[bobbybob]

Why buy make a $15,000+ bike and then go cheap on a $20 item?

 

Why pay more than is necessary--for *anything* ?

[tallman]

Andy,

I'm not arguing one way or another, just reminding the peoples who may not have been around for his postings.

I'm OOW, but still use OEM, just for the record.

 

 

[Jerry Duke]

Why buy make a $15,000+ bike and then go cheap on a $20 item?

 

Why pay more than is necessary--for *anything* ?

 

A man with 2 BMW's asks that question??

[soggybottom]

What is the part number on the wallyworld ST filter?

[Sailorlite]

I think you would find several filters at Wally's that "will fit" the 1200's (Fram, Mobil, Bosch?). In general what fits the 1150's fits the 1200's but sticks out a little. I don't recall the part numbers but think they're in the parts data sticky here in the "Oilhead" section.

[jm1515]

... In general what fits the 1150's fits the 1200's but sticks out a little. I don't recall the part numbers but think they're in the parts data sticky here in the "Oilhead" section.

 

& here's where you can the OE 1150 filter reasonably priced.....

 

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=11421460845

[bobbybob]

What is the part number on the wallyworld ST filter?

 

The Wallyworld # is ST3614. Less than $3. Its made by Champion Laboratories in Illinois. Yes, right here in the US. They also mfgr. filters under AC Delco, Bosch, Deutsch, K&N, Mobil, and STP, to name a few.

 

 

[philbytx]

Andy,

 

I believe Mann and Mahle (along with Hengst and Bosch) are OEM for BMW filters (both cages and bikes) .

 

 

[Grumpy-ol-Fart]

Don't be fooled because they're made by the same company. All filters are not equal. There is noting you can look at from the outside that will give you an indicator of what the media pcakage in the filter is made of, and what it's filter rating is. Some of the filters made by Champion are cheap crap...because that's what the customer specified. Cheap crap costs less than the really good stuff. If you're not very well versed in filter media, you would be hard pressed to tell the difference between a wet laid cellulose media vs. a high tech fully synthetic media. Just is case you are good enough to tell the difference between those two, I promise you won't be able to tell the difference between a polyester media and a synthetic without some very sophisticated test equipment.

 

Go ahead and buy a cheap filter...I won't.

 

[tallman]

Tim,

You raise good points.

The "fit" factor is one thing.

The "flow/particulate filter" factor something else.

 

Best wishes.

[bobbybob]

Don't be fooled because they're made by the same company. All filters are not equal. There is noting you can look at from the outside that will give you an indicator of what the media pcakage in the filter is made of, and what it's filter rating is. Some of the filters made by Champion are cheap crap...because that's what the customer specified. Cheap crap costs less than the really good stuff.....

 

Go ahead and buy a cheap filter...I won't

.

 

How do you know you're not? What kind do you use? BMW ? You assume it is of the highest quality, right? Whatever would make you think that?

 

But in another sense of the word, you were definitely right--you are NOT buying a cheap filter.

 

[Paul Mihalka]

Oh well, another oil filter thread. Yes, I know, I'm frugal, penny-pinching, cheap, whatever you want to call me. The way I ride I use a lot of everything, like tires, plugs, oil, oil filters, etc.

I don't know much about filters, except they are supposed to filter. My use on R1100RT sold with 175K miles, R1150R gone with 75K miles, now my R1200GS with 120K miles: Purolator L10241. No problems, no engine wear, in my use could not get better.

[philbytx]

quote

You assume it is of the highest quality, right? Whatever would make you think that?

unquote

 

Err! Because BMW actually spec's out the filter ??

 

HERE , here and here are some anecdotal and testing stuff for ya .

 

[philbytx]

+1 on Purolator's (esp the Pure One's). Excellent filters.....

[bobbybob]

Oh well, another oil filter thread. Yes, I know, I'm frugal, penny-pinching, cheap, whatever you want to call me. The way I ride I use a lot of everything, like tires, plugs, oil, oil filters, etc.

I don't know much about filters, except they are supposed to filter. My use on R1100RT sold with 175K miles, R1150R gone with 75K miles, now my R1200GS with 120K miles: Purolator L10241. No problems, no engine wear, in my use could not get better.

 

+ +

[terryofperry]

Did not expect to start an oil filter debate, just wanting to give our friends in the Pacific Northwest an option if they wanted to avoid the dealer while in warranty and a chance to avoid shipping. I live in the Southeast so it doesn't help me much.

 

Ride safely

 

Terry

[tallman]

Phil,

 

All of those tests are bunk.

 

All that matters is if it fits.

 

Don't worry about anything inside the filter, no engine failures have ever resulted from an oil filter issue.

 

If it fits you must acquit!

 

[bobbybob]

Did not expect to start an oil filter debate, just wanting to give our friends in the Pacific Northwest an option if they wanted to avoid the dealer while in warranty and a chance to avoid shipping. I live in the Southeast so it doesn't help me much.

 

Ride safely

 

Terry

 

Well then; just let this be a lesson to you, young man!

 

Actually this happens every time the word "filter" appears in a post. We just love a good debate around here.

[Rinkydink]

Thanks Paul. I trust your judgement most since you have probably seen or heard them all in your career dealings.

[Sailorlite]

Since we're now discussing the Purolator 10241, I notice than Amazon has two models: PL10241 (gold) and L10241 (white). I recall that other manufacturers, e.g. Fram, also offer two lines of filters. Are the cheaper ones 50% as good as the "premium" ones, or 99%, or what? What's the smartest way to not buy OEM filters?

[terryofperry]

The PL10241 is a better filter. It has synthetic media.

 

PL10241 at Advance Auto $6.49.

 

L10241 at Advance Auto $3.59

 

Both great filters, as is Wix.

 

 

[TestPilot]

The Purolator web site recommends AGAINST using PureONE filters on motorcycles.

[tallman]

But it fits!

 

Sorry,couldn't resist.

 

I'll go to my room and change my filter now.

[bobbybob]

The Purolator web site recommends AGAINST using PureONE filters on motorcycles.

 

 

Link to Purolator's moto filters-->>

 

http://www.purolatorautofilters.net/document/Documents/ATV_MotorcycleApps.pdf

[Grumpy-ol-Fart]

I'm sorry I didn't respond any sooner...I was on vacation.

 

Tallman's comment on all testing being "bunk" is so bogus I won't comment...

 

I wrote this originally back in 2008...

 

Filters

 

All filters are not created equal, they are much more complicated than cutting them open and looking at them would indicate. Automotive (and bike) filters are classified as depth filters, the media is the basis for the filter. The media in standard filters is made from a wet laid cellulose material that is composed of long strand fibers of very uniform size. From filter to filter, the fiber size (diameter) and density are made to the specifications of the manufacturer, who is supplying a product to meet the specifications stated by the customer. Premium filters are now made with a synthetic fiber, which is generally more uniform in diameter than cellulose fibers. In both cases, the material is laid in sheet form with the fibers oriented randomly, and then rolled to the design density and cooked to stabilize in sheet form. The final product is a 3 dimensional sheet of randomly oriented fibers that create a matrix of uniformly sized openings. The size of these openings control the mean diameter of the particles the filter retains, and define the clean filter pressure drop. The more dense the media, the higher the initial pressure drop and the faster the filter loads. The less dense the media, the lower the initial pressure drop and the filter loads much slower. There are only 2 ways to design a high capacity filter; add more media or increase the mean diameter of the pores in the media. The physical size of the housing (can) limit the amount of media that can be used before the pleats begin to obstruct adjacent pleats and the intent of adding additional media are actually counterproductive.

 

Another factor of filter construction that is crucial to its performance is the structural rigidity of the media pack. Most domestic filter manufacturers are finally beginning to pay attention to this. If the structure is not rigid, the media flexes as fluid passes through at high velocities and causes contaminate that has been captured, to be released back into the working fluid by migration. Look at the media pack in almost any European manufactured or Toyota filter. Compare this to most domestically manufactured filters. There are some really good domestic manufactured filters, but they're usually much more expensive than commodity grade filters. You get what you pay for.

 

Contaminate

 

There are 5 main sources of contaminate in internal combustion engines, 1 diminishes rather quickly, 1 is supposed to be filtered out by the supplier; the remaining 3 are fairly constant. First, there are irregularities in the surfaces of castings that are manufactured into engine blocks and heads, there are also some particles left behind from machining operations. Some make it all the way through the assembly process only to finally break free as the engine is operated and the metal is repeatedly thermal cycled. These usually only occur early in an engines life, which is why most manufacturers recommend an early initial oil filter change. Second, gasoline is usually contaminated by the distribution through buried piping, subsequent transport, and underground storage. This is supposed to be filtered at the point of delivery, but again particles 3- microns and smaller usually remain in suspension; these will be delivered into the engine and can be deposited on the wetted surface of the cylinder wall and wiped into the crankcase by the oil rings. Third, all internal combustion engines product carbon as a by-product of combustion. Some of this carbon adheres to the wetted surface of the cylinder wall and is wiped into the crankcase by the oil rings. In fuel injected engines, this carbon is usually very uniform and very small, 4-microns and smaller. In carbureted engines, some of these particles become quite large, and only find their way into the crankcase through large oil galleries like those found beneath the intake manifold on V-engines with sealed intake manifolds. Fourth, Intake air, though filtered, contains contaminates. The size of these contaminates is dictated by the air filter. High efficiency filters capture smaller particles but are more restrictive and therefore limit horsepower. High flow filters are less restrictive and capture only larger particles, but result in higher horsepower. In any case, the particles that make it by the air filter make it into the combustion chamber and can be deposited on the wetted surface of the cylinder wall and wiped into the crankcase by the oil rings.

 

People, filters are so much more complicated than any of these discussions recognize. The "Oil Filters Revealed" article was very well written and has some good observations, made by someone with no background in filter science. I'm not going to educate you either...I don't have time and most of you really don't want to know.

 

All filters are not created equal, they are much more complicated than cutting them open and looking at them would indicate. Automotive (and bike) filters are classified as depth filters, the media is the basis for the filter. The media in standard filters is made from a wet laid cellulose material that is composed of long strand fibers of very uniform size. From filter to filter, the fiber size (diameter) and density are made to the specifications of the manufacturer, who is supplying a product to meet the specifications stated by the customer. Premium filters are now made with a synthetic fiber, which is generally more uniform in diameter than cellulose fibers. In both cases, the material in laid in sheet form with the fibers oriented randomly, and then rolled to the design density and cooked to stabilize in sheet form. The final product is a 3 dimensional sheet of randomly oriented fibers that create a matrix of uniformly sized openings. The size of these openings control the mean diameter of the particles the filter retains, and define the clean filter pressure drop. The more dense the media, the higher the initial pressure drop and the faster the filter loads. The less dense the media, the lower the initial pressure drop and the filter loads much slower. There are only 2 ways to design a high capacity filter; add more media or increase the mean diameter of the pores in the media. The physical size of the housing (can) limit the amount of media that can be used before the pleats begin to obstruct adjacent pleats and the intent of adding additional media are actually counterproductive.

 

Some of the observations made in the OFR article are valid and very good...the ADB and relief valves are not equal in all filters, generally silicone being a much better product for longevity after many thermal cycles. The spring for relief is another very critical part that is usually overlooked. Many manufacturers use a stamped steel piece for the spring load against the relief seal. These work fine…until they’ve been cycled once or twice. Filters often go into momentary bypass at cold start-up. The thicker the oil, the more likely this is to occur…now I’ve started an oil thread…I’m not going there. The lower number in your oil rating defines the base oil viscosity. This defines how the oils behave at cold temperatures…usually. Dino and synthetics behave pretty much the same…at the temperatures any of us are going to ride in. At extremely low temperatures, synthetics maintain their viscosity where dino oils go infinite. (that means they essentially freeze)

 

My biggest problem with the OFR report is his criticism of the Pure1 filter based on his observations. This is the best performing filter I have ever tested. There are other good filters, but none I’ve ever tested are better. See the second paragraph, it describes why the tester observed so much media in the filter…the media is so efficient there has to be a lot of it or it would load too fast. There is substantial flow testing performed on the filter before manufacturing. The filter loading pressure is tracked from clean to fully loaded, there isn’t any guessing. The manufacturer (none of them) just stuffs a bunch of media in a can and hopes it doesn’t restrict the flow too much before it gets changed…

 

Stick with a good filter, I don’t personally care what brand name you choose, unless it’s Fram. Once they went with a cellulose end cap, I never subjected a Fram media pack to a bubble point test that didn’t show bypass at the end caps…they all leak internally when brand new. Granted, it’s been a number of years since I tested one, but I go with what I know. The biggest difference in filters that effects their price is one you can’t identify based on visual observation…the medial. Re-read the second paragraph; really good media is much more expensive than cheap media. That’s a fact that has little to do with volume sales, it has to do with media development and testing.

 

I swore I wasn’t going to go all wordy again…it doesn’t seem to make much difference anyway. People hold on to opinions pretty hard…

 

[tallman]

Apparently you haven't ascertained the tone of my comments.

Or the emoticoms.

So, I'll be specific.

To Phil I said the tests were all bunk.

Which obviously they aren't, and obviously my whole tone has been there is more to the selection of a filter than "it fits".

Perhaps being facetious isn't working, so I'll just say it again.

 

There is more to the selection of an oil filter than fit.

There are plenty of good test results to show the diffs.

I've linked numerous test results about oil, oil breakdown, and oil filters over the years.

I originally posted just to remind folks that there are documented cases of warranty being refused due to the use of a non-approved filter.

What people choose, once informed, is up to them.

 

Best wishes.

 

[bobbybob]

.....there are documented cases of warranty being refused due to the use of a non-approved filter.

 

 

 

Can you fill us in on the details of some of these? I wanna make sure I avoid the offending filters.

[Paul Mihalka]

I would guess that if the filter is not listed for the vehicle you are using it by the filter manufacturer, it can be objected to by the vehicle manufacturer.

[chaparral]

I keep a real BMW filter on hand if/when I were taking the bike in under warranty. The nice thing about RTs is ya can take off the filter with minimal fuss and put on an original, Ya lose about 6 ounces of oil which can be topped off prior to going to the shop. If you are a Cheapie you can go back to your OEM filter and use the BMW filter for the "take it to the shop" filter. My .$02.

[Grumpy-ol-Fart]

Tallman...sorry...I even enjoy tongue-in-cheek comments...when I catch them. So I'm slow sometimes (except on my bike).

 

I agree with Chaparral. The absolute only way to be safe with respect to warranty issues is to keep a OEM filter on hand to install when you bring your bike to the dealership for work. Otherwise you're in for a fight, one which you may or may not win.

[JayW]

The absolute only way to be safe with respect to warranty issues is to keep a OEM filter on hand to install when you bring your bike to the dealership for work...

 

Isn't this deceitful? What if an aftermarket filter really did cause said problem? If the dealer asks directly if other brands of filters have also been used, you are then forced to either fess up or lie (not recommended).

 

If avoiding potential warranty denial is the goal, the best strategy is to actually use the OEM filters exclusively until the warranty runs out.

 

Jay

[philbytx]

quote

If avoiding potential warranty denial is the goal, the best strategy is to actually use the OEM filters exclusively until the warranty runs out.

unquote

 

Absolutely correct.....I do this with all my vehicles and keep records and receipts.

 

[Grumpy-ol-Fart]

quote

If avoiding potential warranty denial is the goal, the best strategy is to actually use the OEM filters exclusively until the warranty runs out.

unquote

 

Absolutely correct.....I do this with all my vehicles and keep records and receipts.

 

I've always held to this also...until I got a good look at the OEM filter. I haven't seen any loading information on the OEM filter, but based on physical size alone, I don't see how it could possibly be as efficient as a Pure1 and have the capacity necessary to go 6000 miles.

 

[tallman]

.....there are documented cases of warranty being refused due to the use of a non-approved filter.

 

 

 

Can you fill us in on the details of some of these? I wanna make sure I avoid the offending filters.

 

You participated in one theread that Dick posted in back in April.

His original saga predates that time period.

Search using his board name.

Best wishes.

[JayW]

...based on physical size alone, I don't see how it could possibly be as efficient as a Pure1 and have the capacity necessary to go 6000 miles.

 

Why not? Physical size has nothing to do with the quality or the filter media, and often does not correlate well with the total surface area of the filtering material. It also has no bearing on the quality of the internal valves or other construction parameters. Bigger is not always better .

 

Jay

[bobbybob]

.....there are documented cases of warranty being refused due to the use of a non-approved filter.

 

 

 

Can you fill us in on the details of some of these? I wanna make sure I avoid the offending filters.

 

You participated in one theread that Dick posted in back in April.

His original saga predates that time period.

Search using his board name.

Best wishes.

 

Yeah, I remember that one and even Dick & his dealer both agreed no way the filter could have caused the piston scuffing. Too bad he didn't put the correct oem back in before taking it in for the problem. But yeah, you're right about that one--as we all know NA is always looking for an "out" when it comes to paying service claims. Thank GOD my warranty ran out last May!

 

And I'll avoid the 1150 filters too.

[Grumpy-ol-Fart]

Filter media is rated in pressure drop (psi) and capacity per unit area (g/cm2). The more efficient a filter media is, at smaller particle sizes, the higher it's clean pressure drop and the lower its capacity per unit area; filters that capture small particles as well as larger particles simply load faster…which makes sense. All filters, regardless of what size particles they capture, have a life that’s defined in filter design as 8-psi over clean pressure drop (terminal pressure; this is where the internal valve in the filter bypasses to prevent oil starvation). The amount of challenge the filter captures before it achieves terminal pressure drop defines its capacity in grams of challenge. There are only two ways to extend the life of the filter. 1) More media. Media remember is rated in g/cm2, the more cm2, the more contaminant the filter can hold. So for a given efficiency media, more is indeed better…in terms overall ability to hold a large amount of contaminant before going into bypass. 2) Use a media that only retains particles large enough to be determined potentially harmful by the manufacturer, and basically disregard all particles smaller. Personally I never liked that idea much, for reasons I won’t belabor here.

 

So, sometimes size does matter. Small filters can have a very high beta rating at a small particle size, but they would have a relatively short life. 6000 miles in my book isn’t a short life, so I can only wonder just how they do that with such a cute little bitty filter…???

 

[Paul Mihalka]

Just my HO, but if cars with "need service" indications that come on between 10K and 15K miles including oil/filter changes, 6.000 miles is a short filter life.

[Grumpy-ol-Fart]

10-15000 mile service intervals are set by the manufacturer of the automobile. Quite frankly, they really don't care if the vehicle makes it much past the factory warranty period. Most people in the auto world recycle their cars every 2-3 years anyway. Besides, every automobile that has 10-15000 mile recommended service intervals holds a lot more oil than our bikes. Way to compare apples to oranges…

[E30TECH]

which oil filter is best?

[bobbybob]

which oil filter is best?

 

That depends on how you define "best".

 

We need to stick a fork in this one.