Beware of Corbin

January 21, 2009

After a great experience with my first Corbin seat I decided to order a new one for my 2008 KGT.

Three years ago I ordered a front Corbin for my 2005 R1200RT and loved it. It arrived within a few days, fit perfectly and was extremely comfortable after a few break-in miles.

Last month I didn't hesitate to order a new front seat from Corbin for my new KGT. I placed an online order on December 14th and two days later received a call from Corbin informing me they could not produce a seat without stitching in the seat if it was heated. Ok....fine, but what about the request for shipping it without the plugs? You see I ordered the BMW connector and planned to solder them in on my own. The Corbin rep said that was no problem and it would ship wires only.

Today, Jan. 21 the saddle arrived and I found 3 problems:

The seat was supposed to come without plugs—I ordered the BMW connectors and was going to solder them on, but the seat arrived with plugs. This is not a big deal, but my instructions were not followed.

The seat is not compatible with the stock BMW seat. This is not clear when you go to order the seat online like I did. I contacted Customer Service today and they said the compatibility information is disclosed in the notes sections and sure enough when I went there today I found it, but I did not look there prior to ordering-I had no need to. Critical information should be disclosed on the order page, plus this was not an issue when I ordered the front saddle for my R1200RT, so I had little reason to believe it would be an issue with my new BMW K1200GT.

The saddle is a full 1.5” shorter in length and my ass was hanging over the edge--not comfortable. I was considering ordering the rear saddle for another $330, even though I do not ride wiht passengers, but I believe the short seat will be a problem for me.

Customer service would not authorize a return of the saddle and insisted that I speak with an account rep. So off to the account rep.....

I walked through the 3 issues noting the most significant issue was "it doesn't work with my stock rear BMW seat" and the rep. reluctantly said I could return the saddle as long as I paid the shipping $30 + $112 restocking fee! Add that to the shipping fee for inbound leg and I end up out $172 and no saddle. Nice.....

The rep did not care at all that the compatibility notes were not disclosed in any of the purchase paths--from page entry to order page to the ecommerce layer, etc. If an online customer fails to click on the notes tab and scroll to the bottom and read about how the Corbin saddles are not compatible with the stock BMW seats, well they are just shit out of luck. The rep went on to lecture me about how much of their time they wasted and how much it cost them to return an item, etc., etc. Escalation has not helped at all and Corbin completely fails to see how their e-commerce site is the root of the problem, not their customer.

You know I used to defend Corbin when I would hear people piss and moan about the crappy customer service, boy was I wrong.

At this point I have a few options that I will not disclose here. Obviously Corbin doesn't get it and eventually it will lead to declining sales and closure.

January 21, 2009

I have never been impressed with Corbin products or their service. I had a corbin on my K1200LT and I hated it. The stock was better than that. I went to Hollister for Corbin to shape it to me and the service was awful. I felt horrible riding in the rain that distance in order to get that service. I wont ever buy another Corbin product again.

On a side note, not to criticize but I think you proabbaly should have investigated the compatability of the seats a bit more as I know alot of custom seats dont work or work well with the other half. However, the length issue should be disclosed. I personally wouldnt buy an aftermarket seat unless I could sit on one first whether it be at a dealership or another riders bike. But thats me and some think I am overly critical / borderline anal retentive.

January 21, 2009

On a side note, not to criticize but I think you proabbaly should have investigated the compatability of the seats a bit more as I know alot of custom seats dont work or work well with the other half.

You are correct. What sucked me in was my R12RT experience and research. In the case of the RT the Corbin front seats are compatible with BMW rear seats. I assumed, wrongly the same would apply to the KGT.

January 22, 2009

OK, that would seriously tick me off. The lack of a comment or an asterisk or some kind of obvious note (beyond the fine print) that a dual seat is mandatory for a particular application seems pretty indefensible. And one could even get past that error if they were willing to take the seat back, or make this good for you somehow. Bad business, and I'm surprised/disappointed that escalation to a manager didn't clear it up.

January 22, 2009

I don't remember Richard having that issue, I know he only had the front seat.

You can't order from Corbin on-line, I always call and talk to someone. It's the only way to learn this kinda stuff.

They prolly lost me has a customer because of the way they treated you.

I bet you dispute the CC charge.....just guessin

:thumbsup:

January 22, 2009

Sorry, but I would have assumed a good fit as well unless that information was clearly and openly disclosed somewhere in the process. I agree that buried in the notes is unacceptable.

January 22, 2009

You can't order from Corbin on-line, I always call and talk to someone. It's the only way to learn this kinda stuff.

There in lies the conundrum!

Web site makes it possible to order the seat IF all parameters are followed to the tee then triple checked. Most people don't do that.

A phone call to quadruple check would still be needed. This web stuff aint always as perfect a solution as many think/want it to be.

Sometimes you learn that through a burn.

And I'm sure Richard rode into their shop as it is local for him.

January 22, 2009

I believe a product has to have a "fitness for a particular purpose". Since the seat neither fits your butt, nor your bike (correctly), I think that is where I would be headed....small claims court. But, since you appear to be from Texas, that is probably out of the question.

You have probably cost Corbin about 150 times the disputed amount in lost sales by simply posting your story here.

My last words to you (at least for now) are: Russell Day Long

January 22, 2009

I'm really sorry that things didn't work out for you. Many folks have had positive experiences with Corbin... I'm not one of them.

January 22, 2009

Yep, I have heard too many of these stories.

I have a Corbin on Smokey the 97 Hd that has gotten rock hard over time. The Corbin seat on Bonbon the 97 RT was lousy, plus the backrest irritated my back. I then put the backrest on Smokey which was much worse. Yipes, I still shudder.

I had heard that if you rode in, you could get a fine seat, but it doesn't seem so as much anymore. There are just too many alternatives to give Corbin any more thought as far as I am concerned.

January 22, 2009

Sorry to be the lone dissenter here BUT I think its your fault for not reading all the relevant info. Corbin's website gives the seat dimensions including front to back length. The reason the front and back seat don't work is because BMW changed the seat midway into the 2006 model year; prior to that change, the Corbin front worked fine with the OEM rear seat. Also their notes clearly say the OEM and Corbin seats are not interchangeable. I think you are lucky that they agreed to the return even though its an expensive solution. Nevertheless, Corbin's customer service is generally lousy and many people swear them off. Personally, I have had many Corbin seats over the years and have always been very satisfied with them. But I have always done a ride-in so I could make sure I was happy with the seat before I paid them.

For what its worth, I have been trying to find a decent seat for my 08 KGT and I have finally ended up with a Sargent. But, its also short front to back. Others seem to be happy with the Rocky Mayer seats.

Good luck with your seat effort.

January 22, 2009

Looking at the site it is pretty clear in the notes: 'NOTE: Corbin front and rear saddles will not interechange with stock front and rear components.', and the notes are on a tab, not buried somewhere. But... the ordering section lists individual front and rear components. If they will not interchange why list them separately with no warning on the order page? It is kind of a mistake waiting to happen. I also note that they say 'We will verify all selections with you before starting production.' Did they do that, and if so did they question the order of only a partial seat?

January 22, 2009

As the lone dissenter, exactly how long would Corbin survive, or how much business do you think Corbin would do, if it was limited to ride in only? Not a practical position to even propose, unless Corbin maintained outlets around the country.

The fact of the matter is the majority of the problem, lack of communication rests with Corbin. Any one with any sense of customer service would work to make this a win/win situation, rather than a lose/lose. How about an offer to make a rear section at cost? Or some other arrangement.

Corbin will be taking the seat back, and selling it to someone else, so they are out nothing. While they failed to communicate adequately or to follow specific orders from the customer.

That is why businesses go "out of business". Glad I never considered a Corbin based on reputation, and outrages prices on items. Now I never will.

Thanks to the original poster for the information and education.

January 22, 2009

Man that really sucks Gegory! Maybe I was just lucky living in the Bay area when I bought my Corbin front and rear (heated) about 70K miles ago. I've been very happy with my Corbin but I went in to Hollister and had them custom fit it to my butt. I'm still happy with the seat but I think they really hosed you and also themselves by the way they treated you. It is bad business and they will lose on this one. I'm definitely not married to Corbin and will consider another custom seat on my next bike.

Have you tried moving up the food chain at Corbin and talking to someone in a supervisory position?

Anyway good luck on pursuing your other options.

January 22, 2009

Another suggestion in dealing with Corbin. Copy and forward the responses from this website. Maybe it will help enlighten the customer representative as it appears it is dark wherever his head is located.

January 22, 2009

Sorry to be the lone dissenter here BUT I think its your fault for not reading all the relevant info. Corbin's website gives the seat dimensions including front to back length. The reason the front and back seat don't work is because BMW changed the seat midway into the 2006 model year; prior to that change, the Corbin front worked fine with the OEM rear seat. Also their notes clearly say the OEM and Corbin seats are not interchangeable. I think you are lucky that they agreed to the return even though its an expensive solution. Nevertheless, Corbin's customer service is generally lousy and many people swear them off. Personally, I have had many Corbin seats over the years and have always been very satisfied with them. But I have always done a ride-in so I could make sure I was happy with the seat before I paid them.
For what its worth, I have been trying to find a decent seat for my 08 KGT and I have finally ended up with a Sargent. But, its also short front to back. Others seem to be happy with the Rocky Mayer seats.

Good luck with your seat effort.

I jumped directly to the purchase page, given the previous experience with my Corbin R12RT seats. I made the assumption they were compatible and there wasn't anything in the purchase path to lead me to believe otherwise. If you look at the R12RT and K12GT purchase paths you will notice they are nearly identical.

Good e-commerce sites lead the customer to the purchase path as fast as possible (make the pitch and entice the customer to make the purchase), but good sites also call out critical items somewhere in the purchase path to alert the customer of other needed parts, compatibility requirments, limitations and so on.

You are right about the dimensions. They are in specs at the bottom of the page.

You know, I think I'll call Corbin tomorrow and tell them forget the whole thing. I screwed up and will try to do a better job navigating their website in the future, assuming they will still let me shop after wasting the reps time today. :grin:

Seriously, it is just a saddle and I was initially pissed off about it not so much because of the sloppy website, but about the arrogance of the Corbin rep.

January 22, 2009

Any one with any sense of customer service would work to make this a win/win situation, rather than a lose/lose. How about an offer to make a rear section at cost? Or some other arrangement.

Corbin will be taking the seat back, and selling it to someone else, so they are out nothing.

Even easier for them: WAIVE the d@*d $112 "RESTOCK CHARGE". WTF is that??? They're gonna stick it back on a shelf until someone else orders one?? That charge is plain and simple a customer punishment charge, for wasting their precious time. And they just lost another customer--me. I was close to ordering one for my R12RT, as I recently purchased an 07 F650GS that came with a Corbin on it and I liked the way it felt. But I'll not do business with any company that treats their customers like dirt. :mad:

Edit: when times get tough, as they are, businesses like Corbin that "don't get it" and gouge customers will fall by the wayside.

January 22, 2009

I like the way a Corbin and Sargent LOOKED on my RT but ultimately decided on Bill Mayer for comfort and the customer service. They custom made front and rear saddles for me that fit right, feel right and are made for me and my pillion specifically. It was also way cheaper and done right the first time from California to Florida.

January 22, 2009

Greg,

Glass half full now? :grin:

Sounds like a problem that could've been avoided, but then they could have made it easier to reconcile.

If the quality of the saddle is what you want, order the rear and enjoy.

If you want to go another route, you could probably sell the saddle to someone w/the earlier version and let them enjoy it.

Hope it works out and I think you're right, it is just a saddle.

Best wishes.

January 22, 2009

You have probably cost Corbin about 150 times the disputed amount in lost sales by simply posting your story here.

Add me to the list. Back in Y2K I returned a Corbin saddle twice before the third one fit properly. In between I got lied to about ship dates, stuff got horribly delayed, and on and on.

The saddle has been fantastic on my 11RT for the past eight years. It's looked great, and felt great after ultra-long days on the road. But Greg's story suggests their customer service has not improved in the past eight years.

New bike coming up this spring; maybe the stock seat's good, maybe not, but if it ain't, Corbin probably will not be on my list of candidates for an aftermarket saddle.

January 22, 2009

Add me to that list.

I flat loved my Corbin on my R12 GS Adventure. Jamie's old F800ST was even the test mule for their new seat for that bike netting us a Corbin for free for her.

If their service involves this type of stuff, I will not be next in line for one of theirs if/when the time comes to get one in the future.

January 22, 2009

BMW changed the seat configuration on the GT in Nov. 2006. I ordered a Sargent for an '07 GT and was told their front seat only was not compatible with the new seats...I eventually bought both front and rear. With Sargent, notice was in big, bold highlighted box right on front seat page!!

January 22, 2009

My own experience with Corbin is that they are overrated. Had one on my ST PE 6 months before selling it for a much better suited Yves Morillo. There are beter saddles AND service for the money.

January 22, 2009

Sending them this thread is an excellent idea. Maybe they will learn something in time to save themselvess.

I had a Corbin on my K75RT and thought it was a fine seat. However, after reading this thread, they are not in the running for a replacement on the GT. I am also going to link this over to the K-Bike forum. No sense in any of those folks getting burned.

January 22, 2009

I had good success with Rick Mayer. He used my seatpan so the fit was perfect. In addition, he took the BMW heated seat components and made my new Rick Mayer seat a heated seat--at no extra charge!

January 22, 2009

Sending them this thread is an excellent idea. Maybe they will learn something in time to save themselvess.

I had a Corbin on my K75RT and thought it was a fine seat. However, after reading this thread, they are not in the running for a replacement on the GT. I am also going to link this over to the K-Bike forum. No sense in any of those folks getting burned.

I have to disagree, at least, don't send this thread until the situation is resolved. Really a shame the way they've reacted, Greg. I hope it gets worked out.

January 22, 2009

Russell Day Long Saddle +1.

The best seat I ever had, and I've had one on 5 bikes. Valkyrie, BMW F-650, VFR Interceptor (Looks rather odd, but boy is it comfortable for 500mile days), R1100RT and R1150RT. Sometimes they get backed-up a little, and there are delays. There customer service is great--and if there's a problem they will make it right.

January 23, 2009

I learned a valuable lesson. Corbin does not care about their customers.

Yesterday they were willing to take the saddle back along with a restocking fee for their trouble. Today that offer was off the table and it was either purchase a rear saddle or pursue a few other options I had at my finger tips.

I decided to make a business decision; one that resolves the problem for the least amount of trouble, time and money. I purchased a new rear seat and Corbin graciously offered a 20% discount to ease the pain.

During my conversation with the rep today, he admitted that I had not been the first customer to make the mistake of ordering just the front seat....."keeps happening all the time". Amazing. I offered some free advice in an area that I have a great deal of experience in; e-commerce and customer facing web pages, but I believe it was all lost on him and his manager.

My mistake was assuming I could purchase only the front based on my first purchase of a Corbin seat for my R12RT. So I guess you could find me, the customer guilty of stupidity.

Well it is over, and I hope I enjoy this saddle as much as I did the first Corbin I purchased 3 years ago, however I will never, ever purchase from Corbin again. I like their products, but the risk is too high in the event of an error, mistake or other issue that requires Corbin to be a customer advocate.

Cheers!

January 23, 2009

Caveat emptor?

Sucks that it didn't work out with out the additional hassle, but you should be glad that they didn't penalize you 100% for making your mistake.

January 23, 2009

I went to their site this afternoon to do a simulated order just like you did. I guarantee I would have made the same mistake you did. Even knowing your mistake, I went to the notes page and missed it the first time.

I am ordering a new seat for my ride this weekend. I was debating Corbin vs.s Rick Mayer Day Long. The decision is now easy.

Hope the new seat works out to be really good.

January 23, 2009

I just started thinking about this again. If the front seat isnt compatable with OEM, then why allow someone to buy just the front seat? The ore I thought about it, when you see the front and rear required then its sold as a pair. It does sound a bit fishy the more I think about it.

January 23, 2009

During my conversation with the rep today, he admitted that I had not been the first customer to make the mistake of ordering just the front seat....."keeps happening all the time". Amazing.

Staggers the imagination, dunnit?

Reminds me of a Dilbert cartoon I once saw. It featured a woman who was followed everywhere by a cloud that kept zapping her with lightning. Thing was, she had absolutely no sense of pattern recognition.

Each time she got struck, she said "Ouch! I'm glad that won't happen again!"

January 23, 2009

...there might be a market for a Corbin seat "filler" strip... :grin:

MB>

January 23, 2009

Gregory.

Enjoy the new saddles.

The information is there n the Corbin site. But it is not obvious unless you read everything.

As pointed out, the difference between the Corbin and Sargent site is night and day.

The Sargent site has numerous disclaimers and reminders.

It certainly would seem to be easier (as I'm sure you pointed out) to revise the web page one time and not have to deal w/this issue "all the time". :dopeslap:

Best wishes.

January 23, 2009

During my conversation with the rep today, he admitted that I had not been the first customer to make the mistake of ordering just the front seat....."keeps happening all the time". Amazing.

Staggers the imagination, dunnit?

...

Seems to me that most in this situation will choose the option Limecreek did, of also adding the rear seat. I am sure this is what Corbin desires.

Corbin is being very short sided as the bad taste left in the mouth of these customers will most likely prevent any repeat business.

Corbin had already lost my business by making a pretty but otherwise worthless seat for my R1100-RT.

January 23, 2009

I learned a valuable lesson. Corbin does not care about their customers.

Yesterday they were willing to take the saddle back along with a restocking fee for their trouble. Today that offer was off the table and it was either purchase a rear saddle or pursue a few other options I had at my finger tips.

I decided to make a business decision; one that resolves the problem for the least amount of trouble, time and money. I purchased a new rear seat and Corbin graciously offered a 20% discount to ease the pain.

During my conversation with the rep today, he admitted that I had not been the first customer to make the mistake of ordering just the front seat....."keeps happening all the time". Amazing. I offered some free advice in an area that I have a great deal of experience in; e-commerce and customer facing web pages, but I believe it was all lost on him and his manager.

My mistake was assuming I could purchase only the front based on my first purchase of a Corbin seat for my R12RT. So I guess you could find me, the customer guilty of stupidity.

Well it is over, and I hope I enjoy this saddle as much as I did the first Corbin I purchased 3 years ago, however I will never, ever purchase from Corbin again. I like their products, but the risk is too high in the event of an error, mistake or other issue that requires Corbin to be a customer advocate.

Cheers!

Greg, did they tell you why the return option was "off the table?"

January 23, 2009

Seems to me that Corbin's policy worked just as they intended it. They sold the front and the rear. The 20 percent reduction was just a minor cost of doing business. It would be really easy to post a note for R1200RT customers. The only problem is that it would likely result in fewer sales.

Corbin was never on my radar as a possible seat supplier when I was in the market. They still are not and this thread provides even more reason for that to continue.

January 23, 2009

They have made so many persons non-plussed about them, plus the fact that Mustang has taken a big shot at their Cruiser business, that I half way expect them to fold just like their ill fated electric car company did. I think they also made one or more cars with a Vtwin engine also as future projects. All gone now.

January 23, 2009

Somebody mentioned Mustang- the history of these two companies is intertwined. Al Simmons (found of Mustang) used to work for Mike Corbin. I interviewed Corbin himself for a American Iron a little over a year ago - see http://www.mklsportster.com/Articles/aircorbin.pdf

My take on this? Too many stories like this about their crappy customer service for my comfort. Mustang makes a far superior seat, but they don't cater to the BMW crowd. The Corbin on my wife's 1971 R60/5 is excellent in terms of fit, quality, and value - but I made sure to order it on the phone and go over everything before finalizing my payment. I don't buy big ticket customizable stuff online, to avoid these very problems.

-MKL

January 23, 2009

I called Corbin to get some replacement bumpers for under a seat. A couple were worn out (10 years old...) and cracked.

They asked how many I needed.

I asked how much they were going to cost.

They said "nothing, we'll just mail them to you"

And I said "please send me 8 so I can just do them all".

A few days later an envelope full of bumpers with rivets showed up.

They're batting 1.000 with me.

January 23, 2009

I've bought Corbins for my old R1100RT and my current R1200RT. They're heavy and they're finicky to mount sometimes, but I like them better than any other seat I've tried. I guess it's good that I've never had a problem that required dealing with customer service, but I've heard (here) that their reputation is awful. I like the product, so I'd buy another.

January 23, 2009

I purchased a Smuggler's Trunk for my 1200RT (now sold) and it was suppose to be color matched to my bike (red). It was red, but far from the same red. I could get no satisfaction for customer service so I just lived with it. I loved the product although it is very heavy but don't care for their customer service.

January 24, 2009

My own experience with Corbin is that they are overrated.

Totally agree.

January 25, 2009

Hmmmmm, not a very good result Greg. On long trips you're gonna want to slide back for a change of position and won't be able to.

Not a very honorable business practice either.

I'll cross Corbin off my list of places to shop for saddles. When you mess with Limecreek, you're mess'in with all of us!

January 25, 2009

When you mess with Limecreek, you're mess'in with all of us!

+1

January 25, 2009

I'll add my 2 cents. I've purchased 3 Corbin seats. All new from the factory, I'll will never buy another.

snip

They know their customer service sucks and they just don't care.

There, I feel better now.

This is it exactly.

They sell too many seats to care. i believe they sell more seats than all other companies combined.

The have the name recognition.

If you look at the Internet BMW riders web page, they have a page for rating vendors.

Corbins responses are 50% good, 50% bad.

No other saddle maker even comes close to that, the next closest is seargent at 12 posative, 4 negative, 3 to 1.

I looked at Corbin before I ordered my saddle for my R1100RS, their web site says their seat is equal tot he stock seat in the lower position, and they will not modify it until they send a seat out to you and you try it. You can send it back to be fixed then, but they will cjarge you for the new cover you will need. I knew my seat was too low in the lowest position, I didn't want to do the run around, so i went with Bill Mayer (didn't want to be without the bike for three weeks but..) That saddle is great.

For my K 1200 RS i am going to try a seargent before going back to Bill Mayer. it is a little cheaper, but they offer a 100% money back guaranty, worth the shot I think for the savings and no down time.

My $.02

January 25, 2009

When I was unhappy about the comfort of my Sargent seat, all they offered was to take more of my $ to work on it more. I had ordered the premium seat upgrade with modified foam. They put a nice looking cover over most of the poorly shaped stock foam. Still uncomfortable and I'm sorry to say not in the same league of comfort as the Corbin on my Moto Guzzi. I too have had customer service (warranty) troubles with Corbin as well.

January 25, 2009

I ordered a Sargent front seat for my '07 K12000GT when they first started offering them. The seat was beautiful but since BMW had changed the seat design midstream the Sargent seat didn't mate with the new style factory rear. I called Sargent and they apologized for the inconvenience and offered to take back their seat and refund the full amount or to sell me a Sargent rear at a discount. Contrast Sargent customer service with Corbin's as described in the original post. Guess who I would deal with in the future.

January 25, 2009

Well it is over, and I hope I enjoy this saddle as much as I did the first Corbin I purchased 3 years ago, however I will never, ever purchase from Corbin again.

I made that descision 12 years ago when I purchased a seat for my Yamaha FZR1000. It was supposed to be a direct bolt up to the bike. It was, after I used a round file and slotted the mounting holes a full 1/4" in order to get the hardware to line up properly. :eek:

I was actually thinking about a Corbin for the 2008 R12RT for about half a second, but then remembered my experiences in the past. Greg, thanks for the reminder that my decision had warrant. My seats are being shipped out on Monday to Russell for a Feb 5th build date. :thumbsup:

Almost time to burn some miles.... :grin:

Shawn

January 25, 2009

Corbin reminds me a lot of Sprint. A couple of years ago in a paper article Sprint was bemoaning it's low in most aspects customer service ratings and kept iterating how hard they worked on it (unlike Corbin). Corbin really does not care period. A Sprint executive involved directly in customer service was quoted in the article stating "perception lags reality" we really aren't that bad. Sprint continues to get killed ny the competition but while Corbin has an increasing number of competitors it does not matter to them What a deplorable business model.

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