Stripping out gear box drain plug, how do I get it out?

[KDeline]

A little history on the bike. I picked up a 98RT with 3500, (yes hundred), miles on it. It has been stored for seven years, and I am doing the full tune up. Every bolt has come out with a SNAP as it breaks free, so I know they are all very tight. I can feel the drain plug to the gear box starting to strip out so I have stopped at this point. What should I do at this now?

[Win3855]

Do you mean the threads in the gear box are stripping or the hex part of the plug?

[Paul Mihalka]

You think the thread is stripping or is the hex for the wrench stripping? Sometimes a few hard wacks on the bolt or plug helps.

[hootowl]

I can feel the drain plug to the gear box starting to strip out so I have stopped at this point. What should I do at this now?

 

Add HEAT. Heat gun or torch

[KDeline]

It is the hex part, I can see it when I shine a light in there.

[KDeline]

I can feel the drain plug to the gear box starting to strip out so I have stopped at this point. What should I do at this now?

 

Add HEAT. Heat gun or torch

 

Won't the heat expand the bolt? What about a hot engine? All though it was warm.

[Paul Mihalka]

Add HEAT. Heat gun or torch

 

Won't the heat expand the bolt? What about a hot engine? All though it was warm.

The aluminum casing expands more than the steel bolt. A warm engine is not nearly hot enough to make a difference. You want it HOT. The placement of the drain plug in the back of a big hole makes it convenient for heating with a heat gun. Just blow the hot air into the recess. A hair dryer held close may do the job.

[Tool Man]

Yep,

Heat is your best friend for this problem. Unfortunately a hair dryer or even a heat gun isn't going to acheive the temp's you need to get the cases to "grow" enough. The al. cases will expand quicker than the (soft) steel drain plug. Try a Mapp gas torch (available at any home improvement store) and focus the flame in a circular motion around the area of the drain plug. Do not hold the flame one position...keep it circular. You can tell if your up to temp. if you flick a little water (or spit ) in the area and it sizzles quickly. Once you get it hot enough, have a buddy remove the drain plug while you are still holding heat in the area.

 

Good luck

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

Once you get it hot enough, have a buddy remove the drain plug while you are still holding heat in the area.

 

Hope he's got a long extension for his ratchet...

[KDeline]

Once you get it hot enough, have a buddy remove the drain plug while you are still holding heat in the area.

 

Hope he's got a long extension for his ratchet...

 

Hope I don't burn my buddy Kate........

[4wheeldog]

I would give the head of the plug a couple of hard smacks......Use a brass piece, or a steel one for that matter.....The plug is toast anyway. The idea is to compress the gasket slightly, removing tension. Good Luck!

[Gary S]

First make sure your using a good quality socket and that it's in like new condition. Then apply valve lapping compound to the bolt head. The lapping compound is gritty and will help keep the socket from slipping. This has worked many times for me in the past. Also like what was said in the earlier posts apply heat to the transmission case as close to the drain plug as possible. Good Luck

[nrp]

Even a radial tap (in contrast to an axial tap) with a very light hammer and punch when you are at max torque will help crack it loose. Be sure your wrenches and the plug are externally completely degreased. If you have a buddy there, at the same max torque & heat time, have him momentairily (sp?) hold an ice cube on the plug if it is accessible.

 

I give you a lot of credit for not taking it all the way to stripping out. Good luck! You'll get it out.

[Eckhard Grohe]

There may not be a washer under the head. On my 98 I dont' have a washer. The head of the plug is round and has a 6 or 8 mm internal hex(allen bolt). I'd go for the heat.....

[KDeline]

There may not be a washer under the head. On my 98 I dont' have a washer. The head of the plug is round and has a 6 or 8 mm internal hex(allen bolt). I'd go for the heat.....

 

It's a 6mm hex head. Since it is recessed about 3 inches into the frame and motor, heating will be interesting. I like the ice idea. I guess I will try all the suggestions, but I will wait till next week as I will be going out of town on it this weekend, to the MOA rally. Keep the ideas coming and thanks. BTW, what is valve lapping?

[Gary S]

Valve lapping compound is paste that is available in different lets say grit. It is used for creating a sort of rough band on the machined surface of a valve and valve seat. The compound is applied to the machined surface of the valve and the valve is rotated back and forth while it is seated in the valve seat of the cyclinder head. Once the surface of the valve and seat have been lapped the compound is removed and the two surfaces now match each other. This creates a better seal during the initial breakin of the engine. It eventually wears away.

[Paul Mihalka]

With a 6mm hex-head allen, if the plug is somewhat stripped you may be able to tap in a 1/4" allen head for a very tight fit. 1/4" = 6.35mm.

[Art..]

Ken, be careful with the heat as the cases are painted, and too much heat will burn the paint.

 

That drain plug is wayyyyyyyy in there, getting heat in there is going to be a bitch. Give it a shot.....

 

try :

 

a) Buy a new drainplug, and the crush washer in case you need it. Be ready.

b) Insert the correct allen, and tap in into the plug with the lapping compound, maybe even some sand would work...??Tap it in with a 6# hammer.

 

c) be ready with the 1/4 allen next. Tap it in with a 6# hammer.

 

d) you may have to drill and insert an easy-out

[DavidEBSmith]

I've also heard of using a Torx bit in place of a hex bit to get a bit (no pun intended) more grip, but I've never tried it.

[KDeline]

The quarter inch bit and the torx bit sound promising. Heat will be the issue as it is such a small area that I think I can only heat it dead on.

[Dan Gleebitz]

A piece of 3/4" steel on the gas cooker for a while, then press it onto the plug head

[Paul Mihalka]

A piece of 3/4" steel on the gas cooker for a while, then press it onto the plug head

I don't think so. That will heat up the plug before the housing, and we want it the other way around.

[Dan Gleebitz]

Yup .. you're not wrong .... then do it twice.. get the gearbox area nice and hot ... then place the cold end on the plug

[4wheeldog]

Actually, you want to deform the plug by heating it so that it will try to expand when heated, be thwarted by the case, then shrink when it contracts. It then is (Theoretically) smaller in diameter when you are done. So you heat the plug, then let it cool before loosening. The plug has to get pretty hot for this to work, especially since the aluminum alloy case has such good heat transfer qualities.

 

Since the problem is not around the diameter of the plug, but should be the clamped gasket, I believe impacts on the head of the plug, flattening the gasket, should be the most effective. Good Luck!

[Eckhard Grohe]

That would be cold end on the plug , hot end in the hand..

 

Perhaps freeze spray or canned air for cooling Integrated Circuits.

[KDeline]

Well keep them coming, I will be out for the next four days, so I will check back on the 25th, maybe attempt on Tuesday or Wednesday. Thanks guys.

[KDeline]

O.K. so now I have a hex that is giving me very good bite on the bolt. I have turned/twisted the hext 90 degrees and I still can't get it to break. I'm afraid to apply more pressure as I have been known to strip a thread or ten. I have not applied heat yet since this is the drain plug and all I can do is apply it dead on the bolt, expanding it only. Also I will burn up the paint/powdercoat that is in there, not that it matters. So do I use the heat, let it cool and try again?

[ShovelStrokeEd]

First, you need to correct your thinking about heat. It should be warm, you can't, or shouldn't use an open flame, that's why they make heat guns, a hair dryer won't do it. You can usually rent a heat gun from a tool rental place. Otherwise, a good sized on can be had at your local Home Depot or Lowes. Look in the paint department or tools. They are not all that expensive.

 

Apply the heat to the body of the transmission in the vicinity of the plug, not directly on the plug. You have a lot of aluminum to heat so this could take a while.

 

The original plug was torqued in their pretty good. Factory spec is 55 Nm. With the width of the flange and bearing area its gonna take a pretty good pull on the wrench to get it off. Yes, I said pull, if you push, when the thing breaks free, which it will do suddenly, you are going to punch whatever is in front of you.

 

So, get a pretty good (about 18") lever on the thing, apply a steady, increasing pressure, without twisiting, until the plug breaks free. Silly question but, you are turning in the right direction aren't you? With the handle protruding out the right side of the bike, you should be pulling toward the rear of the bike.

[Jay B]

I'm getting in late here, but the Torx bit thing has worked for me. Find one slightly bigger and drive it in, so the points of the bit cut into the plug. the hammering should help loosen things also. You may be sacrificing a bit, but sometimes that's what it takes.

[Gary S]

I don't know if it's already been said or not but the biggest problem your going to have applying heat is the oil is going to soak up most heat. You could problably remove most of the oil through the fill plug with a mighty vac. Or go all the way and drill through the center of the drain plug draining the oil. Then use heat and an easy out to remove the plug. Gary

[ShovelStrokeEd]

You don't have to get it that hot. 140 - 150 degrees F is more than enough.

 

Another good old trick is a good, square smack with a heavy hammer right on the face of the plug. The flex of the plug will tend to help with the 'stick'.

[indy]

You don't have to get it that hot. 140 - 150 degrees F is more than enough.

 

Another good old trick is a good, square smack with a heavy hammer right on the face of the plug. The flex of the plug will tend to help with the 'stick'.

 

Wow, Ed ya just sparked my memory banks. It might be worth investing in one of those impact drivers you hit with a hammer. That with the right sized hex key socket and a good hard whack.

 

Indy

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Not the same thing at all, although it might do the job.

 

The impact drivers work by using a cam action sparked by the blow from the hammer. There is no actual impact transfered to the fastener.

 

The thing I'm driving at is actual deformation, less than the plastic limit, of the sealing surface and maybe the threads. A good belt with a heavy hammer will move stuff a couple of thou' and could break loose some corrosion that might be contributing to the stick.

[steveknapp]

What about an air fired impact gun?

[KDeline]

When I said twisting, the hex is still biting in the bolt, the arm of the wrench is deforming 90 degrees. I don't want to damage the bolt as long as I have a good grip on it at this point. I'm going to wack it, hard, with a brass punch and try again. Otherwise I will try the heat. What a project this is turning into.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

What???

 

Are you turning in the right direction? What is keeping the bike from spinning around? Bent a 14mm wrench handle 90 degrees?

[DavidEBSmith]

Wasn't there somebody here who, in the discussion about the nuts that hold the taillight on, recommended glueing them in place? Maybe that was the previous owner of this bike. Or maybe the PO mixed up the anti-sieze and the Loctite?

[squints]

This is what INDY is refering to. The force of the inmpact is directly tranferred the the head of the offending bolt along with the cam action of the tool turning the bolt.

[redryder]

When I said twisting, the hex is still biting in the bolt, the arm of the wrench is deforming 90 degrees.

 

Where did you get the wrench? A professional mechanic friend of mine showed me the difference a good tool makes. Most of the tools for us weekend mechanics (Craftsman, Husky, NAPA etc.) are good quality tools, but don't use the best metal in the world. My friend was pulling a starter off a front wheel drive car and was using a 2 1/2 foot long extension. He pulled out a Craftsman extension and put it on his impact gun and the bolt wouldn't break loose. You could see the extension flexing, but it was absorbing so much of the torque that the torque needed didn't get to the bolt head. He then showed me the same set up with an expensive SnapOn extension of the same length. The bolt broke loose right away. The SnapOn uses a different steel alloy and transfered the torque to the bolt head where it was needed. Now I'm not a SnapOn dealer and in fact I still don't own any SnapOn tools, but I would suggest that you get a good "high quality" allen wrench for the plug. I have an electric impact wrench and a few different size bits for it (torx and allen). You might try that with a good impact quality socket with a good impact quality hex head wrench. It just might do the trick.

 

If not, I've always had pretty good luck working on the pot metal fasteners and plugs on the old Honda by giving them a sharp, hard rap with a good heavy hammer.

[KDeline]

Yes, righy tighty, lefty losey. I'm beginning to think this bolt is welded in. It is a standard 6mm thick L shaped allen wrench that is deforming, like the ones in the tool kit, only longer. I put a bar on it to extend where I turn it and the allen will twist. I actually run out of turning room as I hit the foot peg. Now I am putting a lot of pressure on this. I tried a 6mm allen in a 6mm socket, Craftsman no less, and broke the socket. Back to trying to wack it tommarow with a drift and a sledge hammer.......

[KDeline]

What about an air fired impact gun?

 

Can those be rented somewhere that you know of?

[ShovelStrokeEd]

6 mm??????

 

The transmission drain plug takes a 14 mm hex wrench. Item 12 in THIS drawing for the 6 speed. Or item 6 in THIS one if you have a 5 speed.

 

Sorry, just checked the URL's and they don't go directly to the drawings. Click on gearbox and then look at the case pictures. The items are called plugs.

[DavidEBSmith]

Naw, it's not a 14mm hex socket. Might be a 14mm thread on the plug. I don't even own a 14 mm hex wrench or socket, so I know it's not that. 6 mm sounds right, from memory.

[FlyingFinn]

Me, me, me pick me! I know!

 

14mm hex in R1100S and 8mm hex in RT.

 

--

Mikko

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Interesting, I'm pretty sure the GS is 14mm as well. Even 8mm should be plenty strong enough, find the SnapOn truck and buy a wrench from them or better yet, a socket. Good news is 8mm and 5/16 are pretty well interchangeable with the SAE size being slightly larger.

[Ken H.]

Ken,

 

I still haven't heard that you've tried the heat trick yet, have you? Heating with a heat gun has always worked for me. Even if you have to take off the foot plate to get there.

[bmwmick]

What about an air fired impact gun?

 

Can those be rented somewhere that you know of?

 

Ken,

I have used one of these:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=37530

on many a tough to remove bolt. I remember splitting the case on my '83 GPz1100 and without this tool, it would have NEVER come apart. If you have a Harbor Freight store close by, it would be a great investment. About $7.00

 

 

Mick

 

Sent you an E-Mail too.

[KDeline]

Ken,

 

I still haven't heard that you've tried the heat trick yet, have you? Heating with a heat gun has always worked for me. Even if you have to take off the foot plate to get there.

 

Not yet, I'm trying to find a place that rents one. Back to wacking.

 

Ed, it is indead a 6mm hex.

[steveknapp]

Ken, I've got a heat gun and an impact wrench (air, not manual as many are suggesting). You're welcome to try em. You have a compressor by chance? Or just bring it by.

 

I've also got a bunch of sockets and stuff that are probably stronger than the L-key you're using.

 

You're welcome to the tools. You probably don't want me working on it. I would have either gotten it out or busted it, probably busted it, long ago.

 

Oh, any good rental shop should have the heat gun. There is one on Rollins in Round Lake, and one on 120 just west of the 120/134 split. I'm sure Gurnee has one too...just can't think of em.

 

Wasn't there somebody here who, in the discussion about the nuts that hold the taillight on, recommended glueing them in place?

 

That was me. I used RTV, just a wee bit. They came off just fine later.

[KDeline]

Dang it now I'm screwed. I broke off the hex in the bolt. $(^%@$#()^$.