Aux on 12RT Radio

[BereIsland]

Now here is my hi-tech drawing on the pins that go the back of the radio that give the right and left channel for the Aux input. Gadgetgaz just asked me if the volume would be the same as the radio, well when I used an old cd player to find the correct pins it seemed about the same or a little less then the radio, but using a two year old mp3 player that normaly lives in my car, the volume did seem to be even more less. I have used a long piece of wire which could be contributing to the volume drop. Could it be me using the body of the radio as the Ground?

[BereIsland]

oops forgot the pic

[gadgetgaz]

I suppose a difference in volume would not be entirely unexpected, although the volumes of the cd and a radio channel are quite similar.

Are there any other nearby pins that are close to ground? There could be a common audio ground pin. I wonder also if there are pins for pre-amp audio out with a common ground pin that is shared with audio ground for the AUX inputs.

I think that the amplifier outputs (speaker wires) must not be grounded or joined due to the floating output stages but I don't think this applies to pre-amp inputs and outputs.

How did you fix the wires in place? Solder or some sort of tiny push-fit connectors?

Thanks for the diagram

[BereIsland]

again more hitech stuff, I used to be a leatherworker, so i used a long thin split rivit with the head taken off, I soldered the wire to the end and then put a double layer heat shrink over the lot, this then pushes over the pin, It was a little late last night when I finished, but just before I went to bed I realised that the pins are the same distance apart as the pins on a computer motherboard. so I supose one could cut one of those plugs down to size.

I am actualy traveling up North on Monday evening to be in Pontefract for Tuesday Morning, If you would like to swap notes then I dont mind leaving earlier

 

Steve

[gadgetgaz]

OK, BereIsland, you caused me to get the back off the radio and start testing

 

My tests show the pinouts to be slightly different to what you stated.

Going back to your diagram - let us say that pin 1 is the top right pin (the one nearest to the large connector but furthest from the aerial). pin 2 is below it and pin 3 is next to it closer to the aerial.

That would make the pin you labelled as R to be 4 and L as 5. OK?

 

I made a list of the voltages on all the pins as follows:-

1 = 12

2 = 4

3 = 5

4 = 1.5

5 = 0

6 = GND

7 = GND

8 = 0.5

9 = 2

10 = 1.8

 

I tested it (very tentatively) the same way as you using the stereo output from a minidisc player.

Initially I used the radio's chassis as audio ground.

I then touched the minidisc's R audio onto pin 3 - the right speaker worked. Pin 5 made the Left speaker work. Pin 4 came through both speakers in mono. Pin 4 worked well as audio ground.

Therefore, I make pin 3 = R, pin 5 = L, pin 4 = audio GND.

 

The audio was really quiet though, even on the minidisc's full volume. I had to turn the BMW radio volume up high and then when I switched to radio or CD it blasted my eardrums!

 

Also, what I don't understand is why the voltages on pin 3 and 5 are different.

Do we have any audio techs reading this that could help us out?

[BereIsland]

Thats great work,

Did you think the same as me the first time you tried to get the radio out that you might have had to take out the tank first.

[gadgetgaz]

Initially, going back to the first time I took it out when I connected the Autocom to the speakers, I thought it looked easy. Then when I couldn't remove the radio box I began to think I needed to remove the tank. It is a good job that the cables are long enough to allow the box to be lifted up and clear of the hole.

 

BTW, your computer connector idea was a flash of inspiration. An IDE connector is indeed the same pitch as the pins on the back of the radio. I cut off the ends of one so I had a 5x2 array with long ribbon tails and it works perfectly.

You may have noticed that I have asked for help from any audio engineers in a separate thread. I hope you don't mind.

[BereIsland]

not at all

[gadgetgaz]

BereIsland, pm me if you want to meet up Mon pm or anytime Tues. We can discuss the cabling.

 

No-one has come forward yet to help out with the voltages and volume

[gadgetgaz]

Steve (BereIsland), thanks for the help. Did you make it back home OK?

Have you swapped over the pins and, if so, can you tell the difference?

I have had an interesting and quite coincidental experience today. I was playing around with a mate's Sony Network Walkman (the hard drive type mp3 player) and in the menus was an option called "audio ouput" when clicked it gave two further choices, either "headphones" or "line-out". When I clicked on "line-out" it nearly blew the headphones out of my ears - it is quite loud. Maybe this is the answer, line-out rather than earphone output. Having said that, £150+ might be a lot to fork out just to make the music louder.

[BereIsland]

Thanks for the tea and bic's, yes got back safe, about 1:00pm. I did pm you whan I got back. I wrote at the time that I had a thought on the way home and wondered if maybe a couple of the pins might have to be bridged with a jumper to set the input volume level. Also I had a little search over the net to see what I could find, and the only bit of info of any use was that some head units have an option in there software that allows the aux input to be raised. btw I will make tonight a cd box leather liner.

 

 

Steve Carter

[Rob_S]

Guys,

Have you seen this? http://www.connects2.com/c2products.asp#CDMD

 

It appears to say that these people supply interface kits for BMW cars with "Professional" series radios. As the radio in our bikes is BMW Professional 2000 I have asked them whether they can help. I'll post the reply as and when it arrives. My radio guru suggests this is the best way to go.

[Rob_S]

Guys - a further link that is of interest as it talks about installing an AUX lead that is a standard BMW Part (Part No given) and shows a photo of a new connector assembly that looks like fitting on to the back of the R1200RT radio as per Berelsland's "fine" drawing. What do you guys think?

 

Link http://www.mattmcnulty.com/325xi/DIY/aux_input.html

[Gkgeiger]

I talked to the people at Dension about an Icelink Plus for my R12RT. They said they had not seen the new RT, but if I would take a picture of the connector on the back of the radio, they were pretty sure that one of their connector packages would work. This would allow you to change tracks and see what is playing on your LCD readout. If anyone has a real picture of the back of the radio and wants to send it to me or tom@densionusa.com, we might be able to use their kit.

[gadgetgaz]

Thanks for all the help guys, we'll get this cracked I just know it

 

Steve, if you are planning to change the wires on the back of yours that might be the ideal time to grab some shots, and also any model numbers from the back of the radio.

 

The diagrams for the BMW part do seem to match our system and it just looks like a 5x2 block with a 3.5mm headphone jack on the end. Sound familiar, Steve?

[Rob_S]

Please also send a pic to me at rsyme@eircom.net Otherwise I'll have to pull mine!! I have a guy working on a solution and he has also asked me for a picture of the back of the radio.

[BereIsland]

My bike is with the dealers at the moment for the first service, I will pull the radio out tomorrow evening and send you all a pic of the back and any Ref. Numbers that might be there.

 

Steve

[David_S]

Great work guys Be sure and keep us updated. Also if anyone want to explore and see which terminals are for the rear speakers it would be greatly appreciated . I would like to connect a headphone jack to the rear audio so I can connect my ear mold speakers.

[gadgetgaz]

I will just update everyone on our progress. BereIsland and I have been doing lengthy (and risky) work to get the AUX port working. Most of the praise goes to BereIsland for all his pioneering work. Thanks also to Rob_S for the enquiries he is making with his mate and a couple of retailers. I have also emailed www.incarexpress.co.uk who sell AUX adaptors for BMWs and they are looking into whether the R12RT radio is the same as the ones fitted to cars.

Both BereIsland and myself have a working AUX port but the volume is very quiet. A diagram that Rob_S tracked down shows a circuit diagram for BMW car AUX adaptors and it uses two 0.22microF capacitors to block the dc voltage on the L and R audio pins and a 600KOhm resistor between them. I believe the resistor is to "tell" the radio that an AUX port is available to it. However, since the AUX is available anyway on the R12RT I don't think it is necessary but it certainly won't harm anything.

BereIsland noticed that the pin spacing on the back of the radio is the same as a computer connector so I chopped down an IDE cable into a 5 X 2 block and it works perfectly as a means of connection.

It is the volume that is proving to be a problem. I have trawled the discussion groups that refer to AUX input adaptors and it seems that the BMW cars have a means of adjusting the input volume on the AUX port but I have tried to find a similar function on the R12RT radio without success. We have tried several music devices such as mp3 players, minidisc players, palmtop computers and small FM radios but, while they differ, the volume is still too low. I have also tried a Sony harddrive mp3 player that has a "line-out" facility and, whlist it is slightly louder it is still far too quiet.

BereIsland is removing his unit again this weekend to fit the caps and resistor and try to establish whether pins 7,8&4 from a wiring diagram we have are the same ones we are using or whether there are other input pins.

BereIsland, we don't know that the numbers I wrote on your diagram are the correct ones so pins 7,8&4 may well not be as I drew them. If we were to change the numbering so that pin 1 is on the bottom right with pin 2 nect to it then 7&8 would be the two we are using for L&R audio.

I had another thought also, The K1200LT (same radio/cd) has an option for a cd multi changer in the off-side pannier. This most certainly needs audio input lines and an audio ground. Does anyone have, or know anyone with, the multichanger who could check which plug it uses and which pins are connected?

Also, BereIsland (He's a good lad ) is taking some pics of the back of the unit and noting down any reference numbers whilst he has his unit out this weekend.

N.B. if anyone else wishes to try this please note that we have changed the pins from the ones BereIsland showed in his diagram near the top of this thread. The pin that is shown as R is actually audio ground and L is the pin directly above it in the diagram.

[Rob_S]

Gadgetgaz,

The bloke I spoke to in Edworthys said that the key, as far as he was concerned was whether or not the radio unit had a connector for a CD changer. If we can be sure that the radio unit does have the capacity to connect to a CD Changer then I think we are in business. I am awaiting the picture from Steve to send to this chap. He seemed very hopeful as follows:

 

 

Hi There

 

Can you tell me if this radio has a CD changer port?

 

If it does then we should be able to help you

 

Cheers

 

-----Original Message-----

From: contactus@edworthys.co.uk [mailto:contactus@edworthys.co.uk]

Sent: 01 June 2005 20:42

To: sales@edworthys.co.uk

Subject: Contact Us Submission

Importance: High

 

Information request

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Can you supply an Ipod interface to connect to the BMW professional 2000

radio which is installed in my BMW R1200RT motorbike?

 

Name: Robert Syme

Company:

Email: rsyme@eircom.net

Phone: +353-86-2423031

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

[BereIsland]

Hi all heres a picture of the back

[BereIsland]

And heres a pic of the name plate, On the other pic I showed the pin nos that are shown next to the pins on the head unit itself.

 

Steve Carter

[gadgetgaz]

Thanks for the pictures, Steve. It is very handy that you managed to spot the pin numbers but it might mean that the 10pin connector in the diagram from BMW is not the same as ours since the diag uses pin 7 as an audio in and pin 7 is ground on the unit. However, if the diag shows the pins on the plug rather than the back of the radio then they would be the reverse (mirror image) of the back of the radio. That means that 7&8 ARE the same as the ones we are using and the audio ground is on the pin on the bottom row second from the left. (i.e. labelled 2 on your photograph). Does that make sense

[gadgetgaz]

I'm replying to myself here, sorry.

I made a mistake in the last post. I was referring to pins 7&8 - that was a mistake. The diagram HERE (look for the connector X18805) states that the audio input is on pins 8&9 and audio ground is on pin 4. Looking at BereIsland's photo of the connector pins then these are exactly the same pins that we are already using.

[lmats]

Some of the high end radio stores carry the plug for the back of the radio, a little pricey $45

[CraCol]

There also is an "Intercom" selection available on the R12RT radio controls. Has anyone had any luck figuring out the secret for this one, as well as the AUX setting>?

[Rob_S]

Guys,

I'm told that this is a setting which BMW want to use in conjunction with the new bluetooth System 5 helmets, my "source" said that there are plans in BMW to use it but nothing has emerged from the R&D office as yet. I would suspect that the radio system is perfectly ready for use as an intercom, but BMW will want you to only use it with their product which will, as usual, cost megabucks!!! and therefore they will NOT release the information to allow normal mortals access!!! I think the same applies to the AUX, but we are on the case there and I am confident that a solution for MP3 players at least, will be found!

I have e-mailed Becker (The makers of the radio) about the AUX but I suspect that BMW may well have gagged them as they tend to do with suppliers of accessories!

 

All Good fun when one has nothing else to do!! (I wish)

[Rob_S]

I have had a reply from Becker as follows:

 

thank you for your inquiry. The equipment specified by you concerns a so-called OEM-product for BMW. Marketing and sales is in the responsibility of BMW. We ask for your understanding, that we are not able to give you product informations or technical instructions. For further information please contact your BMW dealer.

 

As I suspected they are gagged by BMW!! I have e-mailed BMW direct in Germany asking for instructions as to how to use the feature they have mentioned in the manual ps 12 & 13. I mentioned that I felt it was a reasonable query given the cost of the radio and the bike overall.

 

We shall see whether or not a reasonable answer is forthcoming.

 

[gadgetgaz]

That's almost word for word the reply they gave me also. When I persisted they eventually told me that there is no such feature!

[Rob_S]

I am going to see if I can buy the BMW AUX interface cable part number 65 120153501 and try it - it seems to be a $40 part. It looks to have the same pins as the photo suggests. I am pretty happy that it will do the trick.

[gadgetgaz]

That would certainly answer the question, Rob, but I think you would still have the volume problem. The cable that BereIsland and I made up is the same (component wise). I think the secret is locating the (software) function in the radio to increase the AUX volume.

[Rob_S]

Did you guys try the radio tone settings while the AUX was being used? Some radios I have come upon use these to alter the AUX inout sound.

I may know by mid week whether or not the adapter works

[Rob_S]

Guys,

Got the part this evening -- the pins are the same as you have been using - 7&8 ground 4 I will pull the bike apart at the weekend and see how I get on

[fotis]

After Rob's suggestion I have tried the AUX interface cable and fits perfectly into the unit. Tomorrow I'll test it with my mp3. This is the photo of the part.

[fotis]

It works. I have tested with my mp3 (Creative Muvo N200) and it works well. The only problem is that the signal seems not so loud as the radio or the cd but maybe this is because of the certain mp3. The point is that the signal comes normally to the system via the aux button.

[David_S]

Where is a place to purchase? If it's in one of the posts I missed it and apologize.

[Rob_S]

Fotis,

I have tried it too - confirm it works . Problem with sound level seems to be due to the sound output limit on personal stereos. I am getting a Sony MP3 player on which this limit can be cancelled. Otherwise I think it may be necessary to use an inline preamp such as a Boostaroo.

 

Also, some BMW radios can increase the volume of AUX inputs - I am trying to find out if this can apply to the radio in the R1200RT so far BMW Ireland are trying to get the info, BMW Germany are being particularly UNHELPFUL. I'll let all know if I get the information

[fotis]

At any BMW dealer ask for the part number 65 120153501. Notice that the part is for automobile and not for the motorrad.

Fotis

[fotis]

Rob

What Sony do you plan to get? With the hard disk or the mini disc? Because on my older RT1150 when I used the Sony mini disk with the cassete adaptor after 20-25 min. when trevelling in the highway the minidisc stopped, because ot the high temperature. Thats why I took the flash player with 1GB memory. Of course if any mp3 player with hard disc can work properly under these temperatures would be excellent.

Fotis

P.S. Have you notice the big fun under the unit?

[Rob_S]

Fotis,

Sony NW-HD5 20 GB black MP3 player. This has a battery life of 40Hrs which is why I selected it. Yes, I did notice the large fan below the radio, quite where it gets any fresh air from is a bit of a mystery!!

 

I have been using a small mp3 player to-day which,when using normally, the sound is only acceptable at full volume. When connected to the bike, if I turn up the radio volume to full it is a very reasonable level of sound through my Starcom unit, so I expect the proper mp3 player will be OK and if it is still too low I will use a Boostaroo amplifier to increase the input volume to the AUX connector.

 

All in all I am happy with what I have done, despite the VERY shabby treatment by BMW Germany, who will not answer any questions on the radio either to me or to BMW Ireland on my behalf!!

[gadgetgaz]

Hi, Rob, I tried a Sony HD1 (similar but older) that has a menu function to swap the headphone output to line-out and it still wasn't very loud.

A booster might be the answer although the Boostaroo is only 40% increase. That might not be enough.

[David_S]

I just checked and it's a $72.00 part here in the US. I think I'll let you guys work the bugs out of the volume before shelling out that kind of cash

[Rob_S]

Gadgetgaz,

Have you unshackled your mp3 player? - it is possible to cancel the AVLS - seek on the internet and you will find the instructions for your player. At worst you can get the codes to unlock them on E-Bay for £1. Try that before the Boostaroo. I intend to do so once I get the mp3 player!

[DickCW]

Fotis has given a BMW part number presumably for the connector. Can someone give me some definitive advice on what I (or someone who knows what he is doing) needs to do to get my ipod working through Aux? And where do you put the player? It is too big (with some protection) to go above the CD player, or can the CD unit be removed?

[Rob_S]

The part that fotis mentioned provides an AUX input to the radio. The connector fits the radio exactly and the lead has a 3.5mm stereo jack socket at the other end. You then need a Male/male 3.5mm lead to connect the mp3 player to the AUX lead socket. You can mount this socket wherever you like - I put mine on the black inner face of the RHS top fairing. I carry the mp3 player in my tankbag. I expect you could put the socket on the inside of the radio box above the cd slot and put your Ipod on top of the cd player - it should fit.

 

Be aware that the volume of the AUX input is low - you may well ne a pre-amp between the player and the AUX to get sufficient volume into the radio.

 

Fitting the connector to the back of the radio is quite simple - remove both the upper (cheek piece) and lower fairing pieces on the RHS of the bike. Remove the radio box lid before removing the lower fairing piece! Then remove the three screws holding the radio box in. Free the wire retaining clip on the side of the radio box and lift out. Open the radio box (remove the 4 screws on the side). Slide the radio out and remove the wiring connector from the back by rising the black surround. Slip the 10 pin block connector into the block and insert the blue retaining clip. Pass the socket and wire out the bottom of the radio box through the grommet.

Then re-assemble and mount the socket where you wish.

 

Hope this helps!

[fotis]

Fotis has given a BMW part number presumably for the connector. Can someone give me some definitive advice on what I (or someone who knows what he is doing) needs to do to get my ipod working through Aux? And where do you put the player? It is too big (with some protection) to go above the CD player, or can the CD unit be removed?

 

I suppose you are asking how to use the AUX connector without the dedicated cable. If so Berelsland has made an excellent demonstration how to do it. Also with foto.

The other thing "where to put" the player is the problem. I personally prefer when riding to not have any obstructions such a wire into the jacket or the tankbag. Thats why I took the litle creative muvo n200 (25gr)just to put it into the radio compartment and forget it when riding.

The 12RT has a lot of space above the unit so I think you can put into the Ipod. The question is how the hard disc of your Ipod or other Mp3 will respond after some travelling time because of the temperatures into the compartment. I had this problem with a Sony minidisc.

Fotis

[fotis]

Hey don't forget the 5th International BMW Biker Meeting in Garmisch-Partenkirchen from 1-3 July. The Europeans than will not come are inexcusable. Do you hear Rob, gadgetgaz, berelsland?

Of course we also wait the American friends.

Fotis

P.S. Maybe this is irrelevant to the topic but after all we all love riding

[Rob_S]

Relax, Fotis! I will be there along with a few of my Irish buddies. Perhaps we will meet there!

[fotis]

I will be very glad to see you there

Fotis

[fotis]

This morning I have tested the Sony NW-HD5 20 GB that you mentioned and the output level from the loudspeakers is the same with my Creative Muvo N200 that is to say unacceptable. So I suppose that every mp3 player works the same with the AUX of our system. The solution is to put an amplifier between the source and the system.

If someone uses an intercomunication system with amplifier like the Baher system maybe will have the wanted level of sound. I have the Baher Ultima XL and when I will install it I'll let you know.

Fotis