The Financial Market - Can I Scream Now?

[steve.foote]

But when a Wall Street financial company is looking at going belly-up through greed and stupidity, the taxpayers must save them! "Privatize the profit, socialize the risk". Puke...

 

I hate to say it, Dave, but that's pretty much the position of all of them nowdays. If you can tell the difference, you're a better judge than I am.

[dewtwo]

Some of you understand the issue and some of you need to go back and hide under a rock. I live this sh*t every day. I have made a living in the mortgage industry for over 20 years. There is no 1 person or group to blame. The system is to blame. Banks and mortgage lenders were put on the spot in the 90s to stop all discrimination. It was fashionable to go after lenders, and many lenders were penalized hugely for "discrimation". So they slowly start to do riskier loans. As they do, some dumb a$$ sitting in a desk in New York realizes these loans make great money, so why not go a little further. Next thing I know I am giving a speech to a bunch of section 9 renters on how they can get their own home. Wow! Think about it, we are putting people who rented their entire lives, grew up in rentals in their own home. Yippie! Oh crap, the water heater is leaking, where is the land lord... Oops, the bank will just have to take it back and fix the leak. I don't have any money invested in this house.

 

Our immediate gratification society is also to blame. Customer called me today, can I do a 97% Loan for my borrower on a 40 year, because she can only afford $150,000, but she found this house she loves at $180,000. If I had a nickel for everytime I heard this, I would be rich! No, she can't that is why we are in this mess. To many people want houses they can't afford.

 

Guys, this is a cycle. The market made the problem, and without intervention the market will correct. However, our feel good politicians that want to keep their jobs, feel the need to intervene. Right Spin is correct, they are going to make this worse, and the correction will take longer. You are right about 1 thing. It is all about greed, but think about who are the greedy parties, the borrowers that can't afford the home, the lender that made the loan, the investor that wants the higher rate of return, the politician that wants to make the borrowers "feel good". Trust me, the list is long. I would bet the average loan in origination helps pay for 20 to 25 employees salaries (that is prior to the loan closing).

 

BTW, if you want to refinance, and you have not spent everything you have, it is a great time to refinance. But do NOT pay off any other debt with that refinance.

 

Now with all that said, I hope you don't mind, but I have to get back to work. Because as this market is collapsing, my business is growing so fast I can't handle it all. Sounds funny huh. I know you will continue your bashing, but I won't be back for a while. Maybe by then my blood presure will drop from all the absurd comments made.

 

Rant Over!!!!!

[EffBee]

I love the Republican mindset that says when a lower middle class individual gets into financial distress due to illness or job loss, they should take personal responsibility. But when a Wall Street financial company is looking at going belly-up through greed and stupidity, the taxpayers must save them! "Privatize the profit, socialize the risk". Puke...

 

Dave, comments about things political become political comments when labels are thrown about. It turns discussions into divisions. I don't care whether your label is for the left or right. Your comment would have had just as much impact without trying to attach it to one side or the other. I take it it's the mindset to which you're opposed. Who you believe holds that mindset is not constructive to the discussion and turns this into a politics. We close threads for these reasons.

[dewtwo]

I love the Republican mindset that says when a lower middle class individual gets into financial distress due to illness or job loss, they should take personal responsibility. But when a Wall Street financial company is looking at going belly-up through greed and stupidity, the taxpayers must save them! "Privatize the profit, socialize the risk". Puke...

 

Dave, comments about things political become political comments when labels are thrown about. It turns discussions into divisions. I don't care whether your label is for the left or right. Your comment would have had just as much impact without trying to attach it to one side or the other. I take it it's the mindset to which you're opposed. Who you believe holds that mindset is not constructive to the discussion and turns this into a politics. We close threads for these reasons.

 

Excellent comment!

 

Also, keep in mind many Americans have investments that are tied to wall street. Have a 401k? In all honesty, our economy is so tied to these companies. You want to see how worthless your dollar can become, let these companies go under! Wealth envy will not get you or me anywhere. You and I need to think what is best for us. The regulators are trying to do what is best for the populous as a whole. Whether they are right or wrong, you and I can't judge. Time and history will be their judges.

[Berkley]

Also, keep in mind many Americans have investments that are tied to wall street. Have a 401k? In all honesty, our economy is so tied to these companies. You want to see how worthless your dollar can become, let these companies go under! Wealth envy will not get you or me anywhere. You and I need to think what is best for us. The regulators are trying to do what is best for the populous as a whole. Whether they are right or wrong, you and I can't judge. Time and history will be their judges.

 

Thank you!!

 

Mark pulled out a book "When Genius Failed" on Sunday night - it's a really good book, a really fast read...

 

This should be a very interesting time for the US. This is obviously not the end by any means.

 

In the meantime, enjoy this little slideshow: http://docs.google.com/TeamPresent?docid=ddp4zq7n_0cdjsr4fn&skipauth=true

[Dennis Andress]

Thanks for the slideshow!

[dewtwo]

Thank you!!

 

Mark pulled out a book "When Genius Failed" on Sunday night - it's a really good book, a really fast read...

 

This should be a very interesting time for the US. This is obviously not the end by any means.

 

In the meantime, enjoy this little slideshow: http://docs.google.com/TeamPresent?docid=ddp4zq7n_0cdjsr4fn&skipauth=true

 

Too freeken funny!

 

It pretty much is how is works though. Remember junk bonds of the 80s. Don't hear to much about those now do you (they're still there), how about the tech market rise and subsequent fall, and let's not forget those day traders that gave up their 8 to 5 job to sit in front of their computer and trade stock all day. The free market corrected its error.

 

I can promise you, all over the world if people's basic needs are met, they are looking for ways to increase their wealth, some are just better than others at accomplishing this. People on Wall Street are no different than people on Main Street, they just have more tools at their disposal. Again, this is a generalization, and does not apply to 100% of the people out there.

[Ken H.]

Dianne,

 

Couple of things - First I don't think it serves any purpose here to label various opinions voiced here that you don't agree with as, "...need to go back and hide under a rock" or as , "...absurd comments." Discussion and even discourse is good, offhand dismissal of other people's point of view is not. Voice your views on the subject at hand, make your case, but spare the insults please.

 

That being said, while I agree with much of you are saying about the system and that there is plenty of blame to go around, I don't agree that the root original cause was efforts in the 90's to stop discrimination in lending in the housing industry.

 

Discrimination is when two people with equal ability to pay and one person gets the loan and the other not due to some characteristic of the person (often but not always race) that doesn't have bearing on their ability to pay.

 

Assuming greater risk is giving the loan to one person with a lesser ability to pay over the other.

 

Two very different and unrelated actions. The efforts in the past to eliminate in particular redlining, where to (and rightly so) eliminate discrimination in home mortgages. The decisions by lenders to assume more risk was their own (collectively) driven by the desire for greater profit. It's not valid to blame risk taking on anti-discrimination efforts IMO.

 

Lower the barriers to loans rooted in discrimination = good.

 

Lower the barriers to loans rooted in ability to pay = bad.

[Ken H.]

- Shelter, needs to go somewhere, and owning your own piece of the earth to live on is a symbol of wealth.

But in my opinion you sight the core problem right there, "... a symbol of wealth." This concept that each of us needs to be more wealthy than 'the other guy' is one of the core reasons societies fail.

If you really think your fellow man is such a dufus that they believe whatever the billboard tells them

Well in a word - yes. Including some of my own poor emotion based purchase decisions BTW. People who dismiss it all as, ' but marketing doesn't effect me' efforts are a marketers dream! The most successful campaigns are when the marks don't know they've been persuaded/duped! And anybody who thinks they aren't effected is kidding themselves.

The veggie who's an expert on hamburgers is the same guy that's a renter who's an expert on closings?

What my decision to be a vegetarian to protect my health has to do with my knowledge of real estate is beyond me, but thanks for the insult.

[Matts_12GS]

So, what kind of sand do you folks bury your head in? High silicate like the beach, or more of a clay?

[dewtwo]

Ken,

 

I love discourse with SMEs. I don't know you or what you do, so I don't know if you have any personal experience with lending. These are my opinions from years of lending. Not from what any media tells me to think.

 

I worked for many years to ensure borrowers are not discriminated against and to help open barriers to home ownership. If find your views in this matter idealistic. I would love if we lived in a world where there was no prejudices, but that is not going to happen here or anywhere else.

 

Let's say you sit down to apply for a mortgage with me. I am required by law to ask you your race, sex and whether you are Latino or not. Don't want to tell me, OK, by law I must inform you I have to guess at your race, sex (usually not a problem) and whether you are latino or not. Call me on the phone or send an application in via mail or internet, well I don't have to guess your race and sex, but I must again by federal law figure out if you are Latino. Then I record this information on your application that everyone in the process will see. BTW, I am not allowed to copy your driver's license, because it might show your ethnicity. Make sense, think not. Now, the underwriter who approves or denies your loan, is not to take any of these factors into consideration, but how do you by-pass your own personal history?

 

Some lenders have a "Second Chance Committee" (this was fashionable in the 90s). This feel good group is to make sure your loan is not rejected when another person whose factors are similar to yours is approved. I ran this committee for several years. The fact is no 2 borrowers are the same. I can make a case for any loan that it is not similar enough to this other loan for a variety of reasons. We never over turned a decision on a loan.

 

You just can't legislate fair treatment. In most places today, if the loan appears it will be profitable, it will be made.

 

To your argument of this was not the root cause, I would strongly disagree. Here is my personal experience. Back in the 90s, the city of Jacksonville FL started a program to get first time homebuyers loans (MANY communities throughout the country did the same). They first went to the banks and got the banks to agree to give 97% loans to these borrowers, but the banks could not obtain mortgage insurance (protection in the event of default). RISKY no matter whom the borrower is. In addition, the city was going to give the borrower a "soft" second mortgage for the down payment and closing costs. If the borrower stayed in the home for 5 years, the debt would be "forgiven". These people went through classes, and for the most part the program was a success. Why did they get the banks to agree to this in the first place? Easy, banks have to comply with the Community Reinvestment Act. These borrowers would all be CRA credits. Feel good legislation at work.

 

These loans became profitable, and the free market went into action! The market started getting rid of the difficult barriers to getting a home. The first thing to go was the home buyer education. Why put them through this? Next, let’s cut the city and soft seconds out. That will allow more people into the housing market (100% loans). Then you don’t have money for the closing costs? No problem, we will let the seller pay these, and of course he/she will increase the cost of your home. Why would the market do this? Because at the end of the day, real estate always increases in value, and historically has increased 4 to 6%. Also, they received a higher rate of return for these “risky” loans.

 

Now where are we, the initial program is gone, housing values have decreased (only matters if you are buying or selling a home), and many borrowers are willing to walk away from a home they agreed to pay for. Lenders are desperate and will to work with borrowers, but for a life long renter, why bother. It is a mess!

 

Hopefully, you still can afford your home, but before you blame 1 person, at least look at the bigger picture, and be reasonable. You can nail 1 person to the wall, but the problem will still exist even if he were to give back all the money he made. Also, stop with the wealth envy. It is not flattering or productive. You may have more than I, but I really don’t care. Get over it!

[steve.foote]

Sylva, I've been wanting to post that slide show for weeks, but didn't have the guts to do so. It gets pretty vulgar in the language department, but paint's an amazingly believeable picture. Good for you.

[steveknapp]

But in my opinion you sight the core problem right there, "... a symbol of wealth." This concept that each of us needs to be more wealthy than 'the other guy' is one of the core reasons societies fail.

 

Where's the society that failed? England? I suppose they used to be much bigger with the colonies and all, but they seem to be doing OK. Germany had that dark time, but otherwise seems OK... The Swiss love their money right...they're hosed.

 

I've seen the countries that tried to level the playing field fail. Those that took away the "work hard get more" incentive. They're still figuring it out a bit, but they are using our model as their guide.

 

As far as insults go, here is the thread where you offer your opinion on hamburger restaurants when you don't eat them.

[BFish]

did anybody see "dancing with the stars this week?"

 

 

adding some brevity is all.

 

carry on

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

This concept that each of us needs to be more wealthy than 'the other guy' is one of the core reasons societies fail.

 

Who said anything about being more wealthy than others? Certainly people want as much as they can get (and seem to be bad judges lately about how much they can afford), but it would really surprise me if most people had, as part of their house-hunting criterion, "must be bigger/better/more expensive than what any of my friends or relatives have."

 

I enjoy making things (bike farkles, furniture, tools, etc.) because it gives me a sense of ownership that's greater than just having paid for it. Likewise, owning a home (or at least making progress toward owning it about thirty years from now ) is more satisfying than renting. I can point to my house and really feel it when I say "this is my home."

[EffBee]

This concept that each of us needs to be more wealthy than 'the other guy' is one of the core reasons societies fail.

 

Who said anything about being more wealthy than others? Certainly people want as much as they can get (and seem to be bad judges lately about how much they can afford), but it would really surprise me if most people had, as part of their house-hunting criterion, "must be bigger/better/more expensive than what any of my friends or relatives have."

 

I enjoy making things (bike farkles, furniture, tools, etc.) because it gives me a sense of ownership that's greater than just having paid for it. Likewise, owning a home (or at least making progress toward owning it about thirty years from now ) is more satisfying than renting. I can point to my house and really feel it when I say "this is my home."

 

Mitch, I feel much as you do. However, home ownership requires commitment and comes with a great deal of responsibility. That can be overwhelming to some. I don't understand that, but I accept it exists and I neither try and force my vision on them, nor accept that their vision should be mine. I just collect their rent checks and use the money to pay off my mortgage.

[MattS]

...home ownership requires commitment and comes with a great deal of responsibility. That can be overwhelming to some. I don't understand that, but I accept it exists and I neither try and force my vision on them, nor accept that their vision should be mine. I just collect their rent checks and use the money to pay off my mortgage.

I don't know about the vision thing, but in certain instances very responsible and underwhelmed people choose to rent for the ... freedom of choice.

 

You can move any time you like. To another neighborhood, or city, or state.

 

When the water heater breaks or the roof caves in, it's someone else's problem. Yay!

 

In certain high dollar markets, real estate taxes and/or common charges can easily exceed ten thousand dollars a year. That's before the mortgage payment.

 

So don't lump all renters in with the overwhelmed and irresponsible, because it's not always quite like that.

[russell_bynum]

...home ownership requires commitment and comes with a great deal of responsibility. That can be overwhelming to some. I don't understand that, but I accept it exists and I neither try and force my vision on them, nor accept that their vision should be mine. I just collect their rent checks and use the money to pay off my mortgage.

I don't know about the vision thing, but in certain instances very responsible and underwhelmed people choose to rent for the ... freedom of choice.

 

You can move any time you like. To another neighborhood, or city, or state.

 

When the water heater breaks or the roof caves in, it's someone else's problem. Yay!

 

In certain high dollar markets, real estate taxes and/or common charges can easily exceed ten thousand dollars a year. That's before the mortgage payment.

 

So don't lump all renters in with the overwhelmed and irresponsible, because it's not always quite like that.

 

The renter is paying for the caved-in roof and the property taxes....they're just doing it a little at a time every month rather than having a big expense all at once.

[steve.foote]

I don't know about you guys, but I would like to know where the line is which separates evil rich people from the nice responsible non-rich ones? I feel like I should know which side I'm on.

[SageRider]

I don't know about you guys, but I would like to know where the line is which separates evil rich people from the nice responsible non-rich ones? I feel like I should know which side I'm on.

If you haven't given me all your money then you are obviously one of the evil rich.

After you give me all your money, you will no longer be one of the evil rich, but one of the responsible non-rich.

I, on the other hand, may become one of the evil rich. (but I'm OK with that! )

[Ron_B]

I don't know about you guys, but I would like to know where the line is which separates evil rich people from the nice responsible non-rich ones? I feel like I should know which side I'm on.

 

 

 

 

[dewtwo]

A Smart Blonde

A blonde walks into a bank in New York City and asks for the loan officer. She says she is going to Europe on business for two weeks and needs to borrow $5000.

The bank officers says the bank will need some kind of security for such a loan, so the blonde hands over the keys to a new Rolls Royce, parked on the street, in front of the bank.

Everything checks out, and the bank agrees to accept the car as collateral for the loan. An employee drives the Rolls into the bank's underground garage and parks it there.

Two weeks later, the blonde returns and repays the $5000, and the interest, which is $15.41.

The loan officer says, "We are very happy to have had your business, and this transaction has worked out very nicely, but we are a little puzzled. While you were away, we checked you out and found that you are a multimillionaire. What puzzles us is why would you bother to borrow $5000?"

The blonde replied, "Where else in New York City can I park my car for 2 weeks for $15.00?"

 

 

A Not- So- Smart Blonde

A blond guy with two badly burned ears went to the emergency room for medical treatment.

"What happened" asked the doctor.

"Well, my wife was ironing while I was watching the ballgame on TV," began the man.

"She put the hot iron near the telephone and when the phone rang, I answered the iron."

The doctor nodded, "But what happened to the other ear?"

"Well, no sooner had I hung up," said the man, "when the same guy called again."

[steveknapp]

I don't know about you guys, but I would like to know where the line is which separates evil rich people from the nice responsible non-rich ones? I feel like I should know which side I'm on.

 

 

 

 

 

So Ron, you're on the side of the line that can pick Ken up from the train, right?

[EffBee]

...home ownership requires commitment and comes with a great deal of responsibility. That can be overwhelming to some. I don't understand that, but I accept it exists and I neither try and force my vision on them, nor accept that their vision should be mine. I just collect their rent checks and use the money to pay off my mortgage.

I don't know about the vision thing, but in certain instances very responsible and underwhelmed people choose to rent for the ... freedom of choice.

 

You can move any time you like. To another neighborhood, or city, or state.

 

When the water heater breaks or the roof caves in, it's someone else's problem. Yay!

 

In certain high dollar markets, real estate taxes and/or common charges can easily exceed ten thousand dollars a year. That's before the mortgage payment.

 

So don't lump all renters in with the overwhelmed and irresponsible, because it's not always quite like that.

 

Thanks, Matt. I accept that some people prefer not to own. I prefer owning but I'm not going to get into litanies of the pros/cons of each. I simply accept that there are, for whatever reason (and it's not always about money), renters and owners. I happen to have some tenants who are happy that way. And I'm happy to have them pay my mortgage for me. It's not that they couldn't buy. It's that they'd rather spend the money elsewhere. That's fine with me. I'll fix the water heater and the roof if needed.

 

I'm not passing judgment. I'd prefer that they (and those like them) not do so as well. Each of us, in our own way, is happy. Where I have a problem is with those who choose to be either renter or owner, and then have a problem because others choose differently. Vive le diference!

[Lets_Play_Two]

"It pretty much is how is works though. Remember junk bonds of the 80s. Don't hear to much about those now do you (they're still there), how about the tech market rise and subsequent fall, and let's not forget those day traders that gave up their 8 to 5 job to sit in front of their computer and trade stock all day. The free market corrected its error."

 

I was doing some recollecting about this Wednesday and going over the not insignificant time I have been on this planet.

 

During my life it started with the Korean War which disrupted the post-WWII prosperity. Next came all the unheavel with Viet Nam which was very quickly followed by our first taste of higher gas prices (OMG $1 a gallon). Then we really hit a bad spot and everyone was predicting that Japan was going to take over the world and the Yen would be the "new" $. We suffered through double digit interest rates which impacted the "new" adjustable rate mortgages and everything else with the prime rate and unemployment in double digit territory. On top of that the powers that were decided price controls were the answer to run away inflation...man was that a nightmare. Things rebounded, the Japanese did not buy us out, and things improved until we ran into some economic trouble in the last '80s that in fact led to a change in political philosophy in the White House. Life was good again then as you point out we thought the tech boom would go on forever until WHAM!!! Following that in the late '90s, we get whack by fanatics and the economy struggles and turns around for a while and NOW THIS!!! OMG, will we ever survive...only 2 1/2% away from the $ being worthless as someone stated. IMHO, the reason we recover from all the dooms days is because many people simply move ahead and deal with the issues and trust our way of life. We make progress because people aren't willing to simply be a victim and instead move on, doing what needs to be done, looking for the next opportunity to grow and prosper.

 

Whew, I think I'll take a nap...call me when the cycle starts again.

[steve.foote]

[steve.foote]

If you haven't given me all your money then you are obviously one of the evil rich. After you give me all your money, you will no longer be one of the evil rich, but one of the responsible non-rich. I, on the other hand, may become one of the evil rich. (but I'm OK with that! )

 

Michael, I had no idea that you were a wealth therepist?

[Ken H.]

This guy summed it up this morning better than I can - http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=88732651

[David]

Bill, that's very well stated. I'm not at all worried about the long-term picture, and because we have had hopeful "solve it" leaders for generations, we can continue to be hopeful. I honestly don't know where this sky is falling stuff is coming from. I'm just plugging ahead, doing good work, making good money, and laughing at the worry warts while I reinvent myself one more time. My own wellbeing is not going to get hitched to the decisions made by others, at least more than I can help it. I have terrific family, friends, hobbies, and business opportunity and I will do whatever it takes to survive, with a smile, even if that means delivering pizzas.

[MattS]

I will do whatever it takes to survive, with a smile, even if that means delivering pizzas.

David, make mine a large ... with anchovies.

 

Thanks!

[Matts_12GS]

I will do whatever it takes to survive, with a smile, even if that means delivering pizzas.

David, make mine a large ... with anchovies.

 

Thanks!

 

Reminds me....

How do you get a guitar player off your porch?

 

 

 

Pay for the pizza

[David]

Yeah, aren't you the guy who complained at Eureka Springs that we missed anchovies? I'm putting little worms on yours instead.

[MattS]

Yeah, aren't you the guy who complained at Eureka Springs that we missed anchovies?

Don't remind me! I'm still smarting over that.

 

But given your recollection of fifty-month-old gastronomical details, I'm thinking "waiter" rather than "driver".

[Lets_Play_Two]

Bill, that's very well stated. I'm not at all worried about the long-term picture, and because we have had hopeful "solve it" leaders for generations, we can continue to be hopeful. I honestly don't know where this sky is falling stuff is coming from. I'm just plugging ahead, doing good work, making good money, and laughing at the worry warts while I reinvent myself one more time. My own wellbeing is not going to get hitched to the decisions made by others, at least more than I can help it. I have terrific family, friends, hobbies, and business opportunity and I will do whatever it takes to survive, with a smile, even if that means delivering pizzas.

 

Like you I am not worried about the long-term picture, except to the extent that as I grow up, long-term takes on a different meaning!!! I have lived in the same house for 20 years. I will only worry about what the market is doing when I am seriously a seller. But after 20 years, the real estate "crash" has a way to go to bother me.

 

In the meantime I am doing what I like, helping some people, and getting ready for that day when I try something else.

[dewtwo]

Bill, that's very well stated. I'm not at all worried about the long-term picture, and because we have had hopeful "solve it" leaders for generations, we can continue to be hopeful. I honestly don't know where this sky is falling stuff is coming from. I'm just plugging ahead, doing good work, making good money, and laughing at the worry warts while I reinvent myself one more time. My own wellbeing is not going to get hitched to the decisions made by others, at least more than I can help it. I have terrific family, friends, hobbies, and business opportunity and I will do whatever it takes to survive, with a smile, even if that means delivering pizzas.

 

IMHO the sky is falling stuff is coming from the media. Think about it, it is their job to sell advertising, and to do that they need people to watch or read their stories. If their stories are all about good things, then why would you keep tuning in. Doesn't matter what party is in control, they are going to find something bad!

[EffBee]

We make progress because people aren't willing to simply be a victim and instead move on, doing what needs to be done, looking for the next opportunity to grow and prosper.

 

Amen, Amen brother, Amen! There are some negativistas out there in this world, professional victims and doom/gloom martyrs for whom that should be engraved on their bathroom mirrors so they can start their days with the proper frame of mind.

[Ken H.]

IMHO the sky is falling stuff is coming from the media.

I for one would like to see you convince the record number of people in foreclosure that. Or the number of first time appliers for unemployment that is higher most every month than the one before. Or the people struggling with 9.2% inflation rate of core goods and services. Or a 40% increase in medical cost. Or 9 trillion dollars in federal debt and 2.3 trillion dollars in total personal debt in the US. Or the US dollar that has lost 20% of it's value in a year. The list goes on...

 

You think all this stuff is just in people's heads???

[steve.foote]

Ken, throughout human history, there have always been tough times. Our country and these times are no different. We'll get through this episode, just like all the others, and brighter days will follow. They always do.

[smiller]

Ken, throughout human history, there have always been tough times. Our country and these times are no different. We'll get through this episode, just like all the others, and brighter days will follow. They always do.

Yes, things get better, and usually because some number of capable people recognize a problem and act on it.

[DavidEBSmith]

Ken, throughout human history, there have always been tough times. Our country and these times are no different. We'll get through this episode, just like all the others, and brighter days will follow. They always do.

 

I think Romulus Augustus gave the same speech.

[David]

Yes, things get better, and usually because some number of capable people recognize a problem and act on it.

 

Yeah, but I don't think any of these capable people learned what needed to be done from a discussion board.

[Boffin]

Yes, things get better, and usually because some number of capable people recognize a problem and act on it.

 

Yeah, but I don't think any of these capable people learned what needed to be done from a discussion board.

 

There's always a first time....

 

Andy

[smiller]

Yeah, but I don't think any of these capable people learned what needed to be done from a discussion board.

No, discussion boards are only for criticizing those people.

[steve.foote]

Yes, things get better, and usually because some number of capable people recognize a problem and act on it.

 

Yeah, but I don't think any of these capable people learned what needed to be done from a discussion board.

 

Yeah! This group of capable people are going to save us from the problems the last group of capable people got us into. It's looking better already.

[Matts_12GS]

I think Romulus Augustus gave the same speech.

 

Maybe he'd have done better if the Dalys had helped w/his "campaign"

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

Yes, things get better, and usually because some number of capable people recognize a problem and act on it.

 

Yeah, but I don't think any of these capable people learned what needed to be done from a discussion board.

 

There's always a first time....

 

Andy

 

Perhaps we need a "Finance Well" forum?

 

 

[steveknapp]

Ken, throughout human history, there have always been tough times. Our country and these times are no different. We'll get through this episode, just like all the others, and brighter days will follow. They always do.

Yes, things get better, and usually because some number of capable people recognize a problem and act on it.

 

So where are people acting on this here, in this group?

 

All I hear is crying of the problems and broad statements about the ignorance of the general population.

 

If you think there is a serious problem, fixing it at home is step one, and should be assumed. What would be helpful would be discussion of fixing for others.

 

All the energy put here, to a group of folks who are all old and "successful" enough to buy some German motorcycle and ride it for pure fun.

 

It's frustrating for me. I know there are people out there who need the help, the advice, the encouraging. "They" aren't some subclass of people.

 

Go volunteer somewhere, put the energy towards good.

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

What would be helpful would be discussion of fixing for others.

 

All the energy put here, to a group of folks who are all old and "successful" enough to buy some German motorcycle and ride it for pure fun.

 

It's frustrating for me. I know there are people out there who need the help, the advice, the encouraging. "They" aren't some subclass of people.

 

Go volunteer somewhere, put the energy towards good.

 

What can be done? donate money toward free copies of this book for anyone contemplating buying a house?

 

 

Not joking. FWIW, my sister bought me a similar book when I started shopping for my first house, and it was pretty helpful.

 

What else? Sign up to teach a course on personal finance and/or risk management at the local community college?

 

These would be helpful things for keeping the next generation out of financial trouble, but for those about to lose their home to foreclosure after a long string of really bad financial decisions, I'm not sure what we can do to help.

[Ken H.]

I think Romulus Augustus gave the same speech.

My thoughts exactly. History is littered with societies/cultures that collapsed completely and are gone forever. What makes us so darn sure this one is impervious?

[Ken H.]

I've got several suggestions, but most of them cross the, "no politics" line here.

 

But I'll through out one without naming names - Support the candidate in this fall's election that will put the highest priority on returning the education system in this country to the best in the world.

 

Because in my mind the poor education everyone receives in the USA these days is core to a lot of problems. Everything from not understanding how personal finances work ("Johnny can't add & subtract"), to poor communications skills ("Johnny can't read or write"), to poor understanding of the sciences & technology (Johnny can't... well, I can't think of a metaphor at the moment!).