Keep it or sell it? On the fence over my RT's "issues".

[SnowDog]

Of that number, approximately one third have not posted even once. This takes the potential reporting pool down to about 5000

 

I would safely assume that if 'any' of those members had a spline failure, there would most likely be a post of a tale of woe and/or someone looking for suggestions.

[James Clark]

I know BMW employs engineers that can design a quality product. Look what they did with the V-Rod

 

I hope you are kidding me. Can you say Porsche?

 

 

 

A few years ago, the OTLIntel page had a note about a bunch of BMW Motorad engineers "going over the wall" to seek asylum at Porsche. I wondered what H-D project Porsche was working on at the time. A while later, the VRod was announced, the OTL item dissappeared from the page, and my question was answered.

[Sean]

Just my humble opinion here, but we can talk about Frequency of failure all we want. I really don't care about Frequency, in this case, I am looking at Severity of the failure. Yes, Frequency of failure is statistically low from what we can determine here, but to me anyway, Severity is fairly high. While Severity is not high enough to cause concern for personal safety, the Severity is high, in terms of being stranded on the road and cutting your trip short, then the cost of towing the bike back home, then the cost (upwards of $3500 at a dealer) to repair it. Seems to me that spending a Saturday afternoon, and $10 on a tube of good spline lube to prevent a spline failure is a worthy investment.

 

Don't get so caught up on Frequency of the failure that you overlook the Severity of the failure.

[BucksTherapy]

If it hasn't happened to you then frequency is a pretty good indicator of the probability it will.

 

Of the 5000 I wonder how many actually own one of these bikes? I have exchanged emails with app 20 and 4 of these didn't have a Beemer. This makes it 4000.

 

In reality we don't know the failure rate but it could be as high as 5% and as low as less then 1%. I think it could even be higher for specific models and years like the early 02 RTs.

 

It is really too bad there isn't a way to log these failures as a percentage of the total population but only BMW would know how many complaints were logged and they ain't tellin. It is too bad because it may be getting to a point where it is in their best interest to tell for the following reasons:

 

The failure rate is probably lower then we think because you tend to hear from those who have had the problem and not those who don't.

 

We are left with the perception we can't trust our machines due to BMW's poor quality control. A long haul sport tourer that you are afraid of taking on a long trip for fear of catostophic failure defeats the purpose. I have heard from at least two of the 30 failures that they are off to ST1300s because of this.

 

Ultimately you lose confidence in the brand and BMW sell less and Honda sells more.

 

I think BMW has underestimated the impact of them not addressing these failures by sharing info like failure rates and by not fixing these failures when they occur. I can only speak for myself but I have certainly lost some of my passion and loyalty to BMW and the RT. I have a lot of respect for those of you who wouldn't drive anything else regardless of failures but I like to ride more then I like a brand. Too bad, it is probably a great bike. It is almost like I wish I didn't know

 

Someone should be drawing these kinds of conversations to the attention of BMW. Maybe if they were listening to us they would ease our minds with the facts or with their repair policy.

[270]

I've had fantastic luck over the years with all of my BMW motorcycles, but frankly, shopping for my new RT or LT was tough.

 

My concerns over final drives on both machines, plus spline issues on the RT had me shopping elsewhere. I was nearly run off of the LT list while trying to determine just how serious the problem was! I came to two conclusions;

 

1) While these lists prove to be invaluable sources of information, they are also fertle breeding grounds for mis-information and exagerations. As has been pointed out, there is really no way to get a good statistical idea of any failure through the membership of a list. Many, many have tried to extrapilate it, but it just cannot be done in order to show a true statistical relavance. Which leads to;

 

2) BMW's historical policy of sharing no information at all. I would love to know what the rate of failure is, even it's only for developing some type of modified maitenance interval. Seemingly, and I'm no lawyer, this could actually help brand loyalty in lieu of lawsuits about what BMW knows or does not know.

 

In the final analysis, I had to determine that my knowledge of these machines and my positive experiences with them outweighed the concern and (internet) data that suggested iminenent failure. This certainly doesn't mean that there isn't a problem; there ARE a few weak points to be sure!

 

As far as splines go, I'd lube them at a reasonable interval. To me, that's 50K. I know there have been failures earlier, but that has been my experience as a good interval. No, the manual does not mention that it needs to be done and shame on BMW. I'd think you'd have a great case if your splines failed. Sue their pants off. Doesnt' cost much to file and you don't need an attorney to do it.

 

Two large pieces of metal that contact each other and bear stress need to have some mechanism to prevent friction and wear, and this mechanism usually needs to be re-newed. It ain't rocket surgery. BMW should come out and say this and say it's a mistake. They won't, so here we are!

[Frank Cloud]

Thirty out of 11,000, means that on this board alone, one out of 366 bikes have had problems. That would assume there are 11,000 active members on the board, and that everyone who's had problems, posted them. Sorry, but one out of 366 isn't anything to brag about.

 

Frank,

 

1 out of 366 is a failure rate of 0.27% or a quarter of one percent. I would be really suprised if the failure rate of anything manufactured is that low.

 

Looking at it another way, one could argue that 335 of 336 bikes had no problems. Wouldn't you agree that a 99.73% success rate is, well, successful.

 

Good point Steve I bet you were a happy camper when you unbuttoned your tranny to find your splines in such good shape.

[steve.foote]

Honestly, this is starting to get a little ridiculous. There is no compelling evidence that there is a systemic problem here at all.

 

Here is what we do know.

 

1. A handful of splines have failed.

2. The vast majority have not.

3. Some bikes examined showed almost no wear.

4. Some bikes examined showed substantial wear.

5. The vast majority of bikes haven't been examined and we know absolutely nothing about the condition of their splines.

 

We don't know how significant the number of failures is or whether anything could have been done to prevent them. For all we know, lubing the splines may be an exercise in futility and may have no effect, what-so-ever, on failure rates.

 

Make no mistake about it, for those who have experienced a failure, their problem is serious. But, for the rest of us, unless you actually look at them, there is really no valuable information to be reported.

 

What we are seeing now is runaway speculation based upon very little data.

[Frank Cloud]

Steve:

 

I don't think that Buck was over the top in his analysis, but I do agree with you that if look at it from the 365 out of 366 bikes are okay, it certainly puts a different light on it.

 

I do also agree that until we see more data, it is truly speculation. Bottom line, like you stated Steve, some have been good (yours ) and some bad (Sean's ), but the vast majority, so far have never been seen. This is the best point overall.

 

I certainly don't take my bike out on a daily basis and worry about it, but after the recent threads, I've been tempted to do the lube, or have it done. (Any takers?) Although, now that some good reports on the R1200RT are starting to show, I do have another avenue.

 

I'm starting to think this thread has run its course. Time to collect data and pick it up another day.

[steve.foote]

As far as splines go, I'd lube them at a reasonable interval. To me, that's 50K. I know there have been failures earlier, but that has been my experience as a good interval. No, the manual does not mention that it needs to be done and shame on BMW.

 

Allen,

 

This is exactly my point above. To my knowledge, almost every vehicle uses splines to couple the engine torque to transmissions. Whether automatic (torque converter) or manual (clutch) all of these devices use splines to mate.

 

Splines are usually present on the output side of transmissions to connect transmission torque with driveshafts and driveshafts frequently have splined shafts to allow for changes in length while the rear suspension compresses. Front-wheel drive vehicles use splines at both ends of the drive axles to mate with the wheel and transaxle.

 

Splines are everywhere and I've heard of very little maintenance requirement for any of them. My Suzuki Volusia had no requirement, nor does my Honda Accord or Chevy Silverado.

 

To assume that BMW "failed" to mention a maintenance schedule for splines does not integrate with the reality of spline maintenance in most applications (industrial applications excepted).

[Spike]

Interesting reading. I do think though that the fleet is too young to really use the numbers of 1 in x to dismiss the potential issue. I would love to get a sample of 1000 bikes that have 100,000 miles on them as I think that would be a better indication if the problems were systemic. Personally, I do think there is a problem, though I dont think it will be very prevenlant on low mileage machines. I heard about spline issues on airheads, now were hearing about it on the oilheads, and frankly, with BMW's habbit of denial I personally dont hold much hope out for the hexhead engines either. But thats just MHO.

 

-- Spike

[David]

Steve, I haven't really paid enough attention to this issue like I did surging. But I, too, wonder if you aren't being too optimistic. And correct me if I'm wrong (because I've misunderstood the data), but haven't a number of people pulled the splines without any symptoms of failure and nevertheless found them in poor condition, on the way to failure? If that's the case, we really have no idea how many other bikes are ticking time bombs.

 

If, however, there are always symptoms before failure, and if few bikes have those symptoms, I'll buy your argument.

 

Anyway, what does the data tell you?

[Frank Cloud]

This is my personal and final opinion on this issue until further data comes in on the survey. Personally, I believe that the failures, particularly early failures and damaged splines have more to do with a manufacturing problem rather than lubrication issue. If I am not mistaken, some folks have found dry/rusted but otherwise good splines while others have found problems with a particular wear pattern.

 

It all boils down if you are in the "lucky spline club".

 

Seriously, I'd like to see a big crowd take the survey for some more understandable results.

 

I don't necessarily think the sky is falling but I do think the jury is till out.

[steve.foote]

David,

 

At this point, the data really doesn't tell us anything. The point I am making is that most bikes haven't been inspected and without a reasonable sample (say 10%), we can't honestly make any assumption one way or the other.

 

My personal feeling is that there may be a cluster of bikes within a narrow serial number range that may be more likely affected. In my major powertrain failure survey there have been 26 documented failures of which six are actual clutch spline failures and two are substantial wearing of the splines uncovered during an inspection.

 

The most interesting information gleaned so far is that three out of five of the 1150 spline failures were from '02 RT's which span a serial number range of less than 400 (86201, 86470 & 86567). This might, and I use that term loosely, indicate a problem with bikes in that SN range. The reality is that we still don't have enough evidence to prove it.

 

Hopefully, more folks who inspect their splines will report their findings. Until then, I feel we may be making more of this than is warranted.

[David]

Thanks, Steve, but that still doesn't answer the question I posed: how many of the spline problems did not exhibit symptoms beforehand? Do you recall from the discussions we've had? (I've not been paying close attention.)

[steve.foote]

Ah, now I understand your question.

 

Answer: I don't know. I don't think that question has appeared in any of the surveys.

 

[edit]I think there have been a few comments about shifting problems prior to a failure, but I can't recall who and where. In my own case, I began to develop a shifting issue where the clutch handle began to engage closer to the handgrip. During my inspection of the splines, I found that the clutch slave cylinder throwout bearing had disintegrated. So my problem was the slave cylinder and not the splines.[/edit]

[Spike]

I have been following the survey that Howard started and have found the data to be interesting. I think we are missing the picture a bit by only looking at mechanical failures. Its my opinion that even if you lube the splines due to some performance reason (say, difficult shifting) and the splines are 'a ok', that in itself was also a failure. I am not willing to believe that having to remove the transmission of these bikes for any reason is anything other than a failure. Of course I do believe that this could very well be just my opinion.

 

Anyway, looking at the data Howard has collected, 83 people have taken the survey as indicated by question 1. Between question #1 and question #4 35 out of 83 owners have either had a failure or have performed the spline lube. Assuming that people are not going to generally pull apart their bikes to perform a lube without some indication that it may be necessary, that is a 42% failure rate (using my definition of "failure") of the clutch / input shaft assembly. Even if the splines never ever stripped, having to pull apart 42 out of every 100 bikes to "lube" them for preventive service is (IMHO) atrocious.

 

I loved my RT, and dont really look back at it with bad memories. I think its a great bike, and having been one of the "spline lubers" Im still very glad that Ive owned it. I do think though that the fact that I and so many others have had to disassemble their bikes because of poor engineering is quite a poor testament to BMW.

 

-- Spike

[Cali Kid]

Well it seems that my original topic has left the building.

It is interesting reading however.

 

So let me add my two cents as one that has the problem. First off I havee shown the pics or splines to a number of my friends, they are liscensed mechanics, ex-mercedes/bmw mechanics and I am a liscensed A&P. Everyoner that looks at it says, "there is something really wrong here".

Obviously, but what they mean is that it is far more than a simple lube job.

Form everthing I have seen on this board there is 1) NO LUBE ON ANY SPLINES. What is found is sadly insufficient. I don't think anyone can argue that. I'm not stupid and if you have half a brain you know that NO LUBE IS BAD! Period. Why is it that I have 161K on my ford Ranger and never had a light bulb burn out, but BMW spline are at best marginal. Whatever the reason my advice is that anyone running an 1150 RT SHOULD take it apart and inspect/lube the splines.

Sorry but BMW screwed up somewhere and the ONLY protection IS lube. We can't redesign the damn bike. So if your runnin around and the splines are dry YOU WILL at some point have a spline failure.

 

Now those that have failed early like mine, I believe are suffering from other issues that exacerbate the dry spline issue. Maybe clutch runout, bad bearings, misalignment, poor heat treating, God knows....but the only step we can take is to lube the splines. We shouldn't have to, but, BMW doesn't specify an interval which implies that the splines should be good for somewhere near the life of the bike. And so we're left in the dark. Runnin bikes and tearing up splines sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly, but we are tearing them up until they get lubed. No one on this board can now convince me otherwise.

 

Don't be dumb with an expensive repair, just lube it.

Warning: There may be NO symptoms prior to failure.

[steve.foote]

Rick,

 

While I completely agree with you that lubing the splines can only help, I don't agree that not lubing them WILL cause them to fail. The abnormal wear you and Steve discovered was likely caused by an alignment problem of the clutch plate or transmission housing. It is this cause that we should be focused on.

 

I'm sure that spline inspections will likely turn up more bikes with problems. However, I'm not ready to accept, as fact, that lubrication alone would prevent the problem in the first place.

 

As time passes and these models continue to age, the picture will become more focused. We are barely in the discovery phase of this issue.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

OK, at last we are headed in a constructive direction. What is the real cause of the spline failure?

 

I think that alignment is the key but, after some examination of the problem, mental only to be sure, I no longer think it is the mating surfaces of the major components. It is too easy these days to provide parallel surfaces and excellent concentricity.

 

What about the input shaft support bearing? An examination of the assemblies sets the responsibility for maintaining transmission input shaft alignment with the two bearings supporting the input shaft. I know this design to be in fairly common usage in the automotive industry as opposed to the older design that uses a pilot bearing in the crankshaft to support the input shaft. However, I did look at a couple of parts assembly drawings and I have noted something.

 

It appears that the length of unsupported shaft on the 6 speed transmission is quite a bit longer than that on the 5 speed. I'm not that model savvy but isn't the 6 speed model over represented in the failure analysis thus far? Now add a bit of tolerance stacking in the fit on the clutch end of the shaft bearing either on the shaft or in the cover or both and you might have the formula for inadequate support of the clutch spline leading to wobble. The wear patterns sure indicate there might be a wobble.

 

'Course this is just more speculation. To prove it would require disassembly of two transmissions, one with a failed spline and one that showed no symptoms. Some careful measurement of components after that could lead to some information.

 

BTW, somebody is missing the boat here in not offering a transmission repair service. You send in your tranny, we replace the input shaft, bearing and seals and return to you. The job does not look that difficult nor are the parts all that over priced considering the source. If this really is a big problem, a nice buck could be made undercutting dealer labor costs by doing this on a production basis.

[steve.foote]

The wear patterns sure indicate there might be a wobble.

 

I think the clutch plate is the part we should be examining closely in Rick's and Steve's cases. It would be interesting to see if there is any misalignment in the mounting of the splined hub on the clutch plate or any warpage of the clutch plate itself.

[Frank Cloud]

That analysis would sure help explain why there is some RT's that show excellent splines and some that don't. After reading, looking at countless pictures and hearing the testimony, I lean more and more toward an alignment issue of some sort. (For whatever that's worth) which to me puts your statements spot on. It will be interesting to see where this goes in the future.

[BucksTherapy]

I sent an email to BMW Canada to ask about the failure rate and whether I should do a so=pline lube on my 02 RT with 16000 miles on it.

 

They replied with the following note. This has not changed my decision to do a spline lube but has eased the concern. Guess I'll find out when I crack it open.

 

Here is the response:

 

Subject: RE: Message from BMW.CA

 

Thank you for your email.

 

We haven't seen a number of failures that would concerns us. I spoke to the head technician at our largest and busiest retailer in Canada and he said that he has done 3 in the last 4 years that he has been working on BMWs. He is originally from France and he said that he's done a few there also.

 

As far as greasing the splines, that is a lot of work. You will be doing the same work if it does fail. Internet users are proned to discuss problems on motorcycles. For the 5 or 10 failures reported, there could be hundreds or thousands of people on that website that never had such a problem. I have checked our parts system for the components you are concerned about. They are the same components that we have used sinced the change over to the 1150 boxer engine on all models. There were no changes to these parts.

 

I cannot guarantee that this item will not fail;however, given the data I have, I would not be to concerned about it.

 

Regards,

 

 

XXXXX XXXXX(I don't think its fair to publish the name)

Aftersales Coordinator

BMW Canada

[Cali Kid]

Steve,

I'm sure that spline inspections will likely turn up more bikes with problems. However, I'm not ready to accept, as fact, that lubrication alone would prevent the problem in the first place.

Nor am I.

 

I think the clutch plate is the part we should be examining closely in Rick's and Steve's cases. It would be interesting to see if there is any misalignment in the mounting of the splined hub on the clutch plate or any warpage of the clutch plate itself.

 

Clutch plate, I don't think it likely, but the pressure plate mount that attaches to the flywhell is only a stamped part. That I can measure for runout and will before I reassemble the bike.

 

Ed,

To prove it would require disassembly of two transmissions, one with a failed spline and one that showed no symptoms. Some careful measurement of components after that could lead to some information.

I think that would be a very good idea. Also, If BMW could get out of denial they could also source the parts of the failures that we do have and see if any of the critical compnents have similiar batch numbers. They must keep records for parts an serial/model numbers in case of recalls.

 

Until then all we have is speculation, conjecture and maybe some good educated guesses, but we may never know.

By the way, I have decided to keep the RT for a while.

[steve.foote]

Clutch plate, I don't think it likely, but the pressure plate mount that attaches to the flywhell is only a stamped part. That I can measure for runout and will before I reassemble the bike.

 

Excellent! I'll be very interested in hearing the results.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

So long as the transmission input shaft and, consequently, the clutch disk are concentric with the shaft driving the flywheel, runout at the pressure plate should have no impact on spline wear.

[Cali Kid]

So long as the transmission input shaft and, consequently, the clutch disk are concentric with the shaft driving the flywheel, runout at the pressure plate should have no impact on spline wear.

 

I think we're talking apples and oranges

Maybe I'm mincing terms here, but your refering to what I would call Lateral runout. (i.e. runout perpindicular to the crank axis) in which case you are absolutely correct.

I'm refering to longitudinal runout (i.e. runout parallel to the crank axis)

that would cause the clutch plates to wobble like a bent wheel. This can be measured with dial indicator against the clutch plate surface near each attach point.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

The only component that could cause that would be the flywheel, the pressure plate is bolted to that with a flex connector and can only follow the surface contour of the flywheel. The housing cover could possible cause what you are talking about. You would have to use a height gauge and a surface plate to insure that all the standoffs were at the same height and the plate itself was flat.

 

Take a look

here

[SageRider]

...As far as greasing the splines, that is a lot of work. You will be doing the same work if it does fail....

Not quite...

If the splines fail, the transmission will require replacement of the input shaft.

If the splines are lubed while still in good condition, no replacement of the input shaft is required.

BIG difference in the amount of work involved!

[steve.foote]

Ed & Rick,

 

I have been misusing the term 'clutch plate' for 'clutch disk.' If the clutch disk is warped, or the splined hub is incorrectly rivited to the clutch disk, this could cause the abnormal wear that Rick and Steve's input shafts demonstrated.

 

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Steve,

Now that we have the terminology straight. I doubt very much that the disk or hub are at fault. The parts connecting the hub to the outer friction ring are made of spring steel and their purpose is to compensate for any mild misalignment and uneven engagement that might occur. A racing clutch disk for this application used to be available and had none of that, just 3 ears coming off the hub with ceramic lining. Way harsh for street use. More like a light switch than a clutch.

 

The wear patterns shown would indicate, at least to me, either the transmission input shaft is wobbling or its axis is not concentric with the axis of the flywheel. The former caused by bearing problems in the transmission, the latter by machining errors in the mating parts of the drive train.

[James Clark]

Ed & Rick,

 

I have been misusing the term 'clutch plate' for 'clutch disk.' If the clutch disk is warped, or the splined hub is incorrectly rivited to the clutch disk, this could cause the abnormal wear that Rick and Steve's input shafts demonstrated.

 

 

I can twist and flex the friction disc on my K100 with my bare hands. If the same is true on your oilhead, lateral runout shouldn't be a problem.

[JonathanE]

Rick,

 

Nobody has brought up a concept that has been tickling my pea-brain every time I read one of these "spline" posts. I'll get to it in a moment.

 

After having pulled my tranny just to take a look at these heavily panned tranny input splines, as well as to glop on some fresh lube, It seemed obvious to me that this should be considered a regular maintenance item. After all, the clutch plate slides along this shaft, (perhaps) under load, every stinkin time you shift! Metal on metal with 75 ft-lbs of torque (guesstimated) with no lube is a bad thing. Obviously, this interface needs to be inspected and cleaned/lubed regularly. Especially since this is not a sealed environment. Water can and does enter here and contaminate the grease as well as rust the steel parts.

 

. Assuming that people are not going to generally pull apart their bikes to perform a lube without some indication that it may be necessary, that is a 42% failure rate (using my definition of "failure") of the clutch / input shaft assembly.

 

I, and probably several others don't fit into this estimate of Spike's. My bike felt fine, and showed absolutely no signs of wear to the splines on either the tranny input shaft or the clutch plate. I just tore my RT apart because I'm a . . . well, let's just say I wanted to see what I could see if I took it apart.

 

My actual point, which I'm sure isn't at all apparent yet, is that operating the clutch under any kind of load is a very bad thing with this goofy design. If the splines are clean and lubricated, you can probably get away with it for a while. Unfortunately, the splines don't appear to have been consistently lubed by the factory as evidenced by all the reports of "bone dry and rusted" splines when some of these bikes have been torn down. My splines had a small amount of sorta clear waxy goop that may have been grease when applied back in '99.

 

The following is my opinion.

 

Whether greased, or not, operating the clutch under any kind of load will destroy the splines sooner or later. This design requires you to carefully roll off the throttle to reduce/eliminate engine torque as you engage the clutch, and then to carefully roll the throttle back on to match clutch plate rpm as you release the clutch.

 

If this type of behavior is standard nature for you, and you clean and lube your splines regularly (more often if you ride in wet weather often), then your tranny input shaft(and clutch too probably) will last the life of the bike.

 

 

Just my 2 cents. Please debate!

[bmwmick]

I think the clutch plate is the part we should be examining closely in Rick's and Steve's cases. It would be interesting to see if there is any misalignment in the mounting of the splined hub on the clutch plate or any warpage of the clutch plate itself.

 

Clutch plate, I don't think it likely, but the pressure plate mount that attaches to the flywhell is only a stamped part. That I can measure for runout and will before I reassemble the bike.

 

Rick,

That is exactly what I suggested back on the original post you made. Paul Glaves has the same theory here: http://www.bmwmoa.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4605&page=1&pp=15

You might want to take a couple of measurements, one at the carrier and one just outside of the clutch hub itself on the spring material that mates the hub to the friction surface. You could also check that the tranny input shaft is perpendicular to the front face of the transmission.

Good luck,

Mick

[Ken H.]

is that operating the clutch under any kind of load is a very bad thing with this goofy design.

Why do you say that it is under load though? The very act of pulling the clutch disengages the load. The load being all the combined factors impeding the vehicle from moving forward that are transmitted back up though the drive train to the engine. When you pull the clutch that load goes away simultaneously.

 

Guess I'm not quite following why you think this clutch mechanism design is any more loaded during a shift than any other manual transmission in any vehicle?

[bmwmick]

Just curious if anyone knows how Vonnie Glaves 300k plus RS has faired in the tranny area? And, if spline lubes were done on a regular basis?

 

Frank,

I just traded notes with Paul on another subject and asked about Voni's RS. At 50K, new transmission because of a torque compensator (think shock protector) problem. At 100K, same problem and another new tranny. At 300K (200K on this tranny) the input shaft splines died along with the clutch hub. No periodic spline lube procedures were carried out.

At 200K, the input shaft splines were mostly worn on the nose of the shaft. There was no 'ring' at the rear edge of the clutch hub contact area.

 

Mick

[mark_dhs]

In the clutch picture there are no "shock absorbing" springs to the clutch disk. You usually only see clutch disks like that in the blow up photo on multiplate clutches or high performance clutches on cars. This may be a contributing factor to the spline wear. Why did BMW or Getrag make that decision? Also how much of the drivetrain is really BMW design? There are very little probelems with the engine, only the cog box, clutch and driveshaft.

 

One other thing that hasn't been discussed is the idea of "mechanical sympathy". Not to question people riding skills but how many riders are matching revs on downshifts and how hard are they letting the clutch out on up shifts????

[James Clark]

In the clutch picture there are no "shock absorbing" springs to the clutch disk. You usually only see clutch disks like that in the blow up photo on multiplate clutches or high performance clutches on cars. This may be a contributing factor to the spline wear. Why did BMW or Getrag make that decision? Also how much of the drivetrain is really BMW design? There are very little probelems with the engine, only the cog box, clutch and driveshaft.

 

There is a cush-drive inside the transmission. The friction disc is designed to act as a flex-drive to allow for some missalignment during manufacture. If the hub or shaft splines aren't straight, the hub can wobble a bit on the shaft without damaging parts.

[TWEETY BYRD]

I put MOBILE 1 IN THE TRANS AT THE START BECAUSE THE 1150

RT SHIFTED LIKE A DOG. This trans fluid helped it shift about 40 percent better. Could it be that it might help the longevity of the trans? Bob

[John Moylan]

That's because your /2 was overbuilt.

 

Your newer bikes are overengineered

 

...you know what they say.........

measured with a micrometer....

marked with chalk.......

cut with an axe!!