Keep it or sell it? On the fence over my RT's "issues".

[Cali Kid]

My most recent experience with my RT and it's failing splines leaves me a lot of doubt. This is the second major problem the bike has had. The first was brake issues that required replacement of brake modulator and wheel sensors. Now the splines. I'm not happy about BMW's reluctance to help either. I want to say that BMWs are over priced junk, but I realize that is based on my sole experience and frustration, and certainly not a balanced view. So the question I grapple with is, do I sell the RT after repair, or keep it?

 

Actually the decision to keep or sell will determine just how much I put into the repair. If I'm selling then I'll do as Sean suggested and slap a new clutch disk on it and it may be good for 30K. Or, I rebuild or replace the trans now and keep the thing with more confidence that it might last. Doing the former and I'm out some time and $150 for parts. The latter, and I dump upwards of $1K. I estimate that by about 110K it will be about a wash as far as cost in either case.

 

I like the RT. But right now, I feel like this bike is the last thing I want to go to Canada on this summer. So what do you long time BMW owners say? What Pros or Cons am I overlooking, or should I be considering?

[ghaverkamp]

I like the RT. But right now, I feel like this bike is the last thing I want to go to Canada on this summer. So what do you long time BMW owners say? What Pros or Cons am I overlooking, or should I be considering?

 

Well, Rick, first and foremost I think you've got to be confident in the bike you're on if you're going to go on a long trip. Therefore, I think the biggest part of your decision-making process is resolving if you're going to be comfortable finding yourself far from a BMW dealer, or if you're never going to enjoy your trips because you're afraid of the bike letting you down.

 

Once fixed, I imagine it's more likely than not you won't have any problems inside of and beyond your forecasted failure window. But that doesn't mean it won't be lingering in the back of your mind. That would not make for many enjoyable miles.

 

If you like what it does and how it performs, and you'll feel okay venturing out on it without constant worries about the splines, fix it up and keep it. If not... Well, don't keep it and find something you can tour on without constant worrying.

 

Greg

[Corkus]

...this bike is the last thing I want to go to Canada on this summer.

I have somewhat the same decision to make about riding to New Mexico and Colorado this summer. My '02 RT has 57K miles on it and I'm starting to think I should take it apart and replace any worn parts I find.

 

Do I take a bike apart that has shown no problems? If I observe the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" rule, do I ride it on a several thousand mile ride and hope for the best? I don't know. We'll see.

 

I've had two warranty claims, a rear end seal failure ($500) and a wiring harness replacement ($1,700). Since then nothing has gone wrong. I've wondered how many failures and how much money I'd pay before I'd want another bike, BMW or otherwise.

 

I'm not sure how much would have to happen before I bailed out but I think I've decided if/when something does go wrong I'll fix the bike properly and ride it awhile before I make a decision. I think I'll know when I've had enough when the time comes to make that decision. Either way, I wouldn't do the minimum to fix the problem. I'd fix the bike properly. If I get stuck fixing an expensive problem and selling the bike, well, I guess that's ok. That's the side I want to err on.

 

These aren't easy questions. I wish you the best with your bike.

[russell_bynum]

What Greg said.

 

Above and beyond all else, if the bike doesn't make you happy (and riding along worrying about it is definitely not a "happy' thing), then dump it and get something else. Riding motorcycles is supposed to be fun, remember?

[ShovelStrokeEd]

If you don't trust it sell it.

 

At 39K my '04 GS Adventure had a rear drive failure. Catastrophic failure of the large bearing. Replaced by BMW under warranty at ZERO cost to me.

 

From my point of view, I can see no reason to get overheated on the topic. These are things mechanical. Sh$t happens. If it breaks, repair it. I don't think BMW's are any more or less prone to breakdown on a per mile driven basis than any other motorcycle. The fact that so much information gets published as a result of forums like this one tends to amplify the appearance of problems.

 

I set out this past weekend on what is to be a 6K mile, 4 week trip with all the travel on weekends. The bike had 49K on it when I left and I had no reservations. Life is too short to worry about crap like that. If it breaks, I'll either fix it, haul or ship it home, or sell it and buy another to continue the trip.

[Cali Kid]

Once fixed, I imagine it's more likely than not you won't have any problems inside of and beyond your forecasted failure window. But that doesn't mean it won't be lingering in the back of your mind. That would not make for many enjoyable miles.

 

Ya, that is my feeling. If I've done the repairs, learned about the bike, know the history, then there is little else to go wrong that I would really worry about. It's just now that I'm intimately aware of the issue with splines I have this gut feeling that the problem may not be gone once repaired. And yes riding should be FUN not clouded with concern for the unknown.

 

I guess the problem is that I really do like the RT. If I were to trade this one for another RT I may end up with some other issue, or a perfect ride. Decisions, Decisions...

 

[KDeline]

I have put over 470,000 BMW miles under my belt over a period of 23 years. I had my first stranding this year going to the UNRALLY, on a bike that at the time had 92000 miles on it. The HAL failed. I now have over 100,000 and my wifes bike has 90,000. I will take these bikes all over the country this year and not give it a second thought. Mindset or confedence, I don't know, but I still trust the bikes, and will keep them for a few more years at least. (If I don't get the itch for the new 1200RT).

[whicks]

I think I've come up with an answer to all these drive failures,it's called a chain! The whole idea in the first place was to have reduced maintenance by using shaft drive.As I look at yet another spline lube to be done,modern chains are looking better and better.They go about 30K or so,and a chain and 2 sprockets of the highest quality won't set you back even $200.My 2002 R1150RT only has 7K on it,and I'm already nervous!I'm starting to wonder about the build quality of today's BMW's.My 68 R60/2 is less trouble than my 2 newer machines.Good luck!

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

I think I've come up with an answer to all these drive failures,it's called a chain! The whole idea in the first place was to have reduced maintenance by using shaft drive.As I look at yet another spline lube to be done,modern chains are looking better and better.

 

 

Not sure what chain drive has to do with gearbox input shaft spline failure.

[Ken H.]

I think the kind of personality a person is enters into these kind of decisions. Are you the type that will worry for every one of the next 100,000 miles that something else is about to happen? In that case you should move onto something else. Even if it's another BMW. Like mentioned, motorcycling is suppose to be fun after all.

 

Or are you the '_hit happens', things break, deal with it, and go on type? If so, fix it just like you would anything else in your life that breaks and never look back.

 

Are you the type that if you get stranded somewhere it is a catastrophe, or it is just part of the adventure?

 

How does one react when their cage quits? Fix it and trade? Fix it and stew about it for months? Fix it and grumble as you write the check, then go on with the next thing in life?

 

Bottom line, BMW motorcycles break. So do Yamahas, Hondas, _________ fill in favorite brand here. BMWs more so than _________? Who knows? We don't have the objective data here to answer that. The question is at least partially one of, 'How much tolerance do I have for the inconvenience / excitement of when they do?

[jjohnson24]

The problem with Forums are they can scare you from all of the problems you see on them. When a drug company runs an ad for a new medicine and describe the symptoms the next day the doctor's offices are full of people with those symptoms. Without a scientific survey and the disassembly of several hundred BMW's with roughly the same mileage and people with the same riding style riding them it is impossible to say whether or not there are any real systemic problems with them. If the bike makes you happy and you can ride without sweating every clunk you hear keep it. If not dump it. Life's too short to ruin the fun stuff with worry's like that.

[SteveHebert]

As one of the recent winners in the spline damage category, I say this: Look at the bike from a different standpoit. We, meaning Rick, Kenny, Batsquatch, and I are the recent and publicly known spline related problem posters, while Ted, Steve Foote and Chris K (72K miles), are the recent splines OK posters.

 

I believe that the problem is not overly huge (unless it happens to you).

 

There are thousands of RTs with millions of miles on them that do not have problems. Would I set out for a Mexico adventure with 57K on an 02 RT that exhibits no signs of problems whatsoever? Absolutely! But, if you have had any shifting difficluties, think long and hard now, then no way. I would spend 5 hours and make sure. Break downs in foreign countries are much more catastrophic on the wallet and logistical planning I am sure.

 

What I will do is this: If BMW helps me, well that would be great. If not, I will replace my tranny with the used one I found and be on my happy way for whatever comes next.

 

I agree with Ken - break downs are part of the adventure - heck, look at all the help Adam had with his recent fiasco! The network on this board should give everyone here a piece of mind, knowing that there are "friends" everywhere who are willing to help. If you are an MOA member, or have access to the anonymous book, that is a wonderful resource as well.

 

I just put $700 into my daughter's car, front discs, calipers, break lines etc. I paid that on a car with only 48K and didn't complain much at all. That problem is well documented and should have been covered - again I am out of warranty. One of the costs of owing a vehicle.

 

Don't sweat the small stuff, just have a plan for the uh oh!

 

I bought this RT used, just like my first one. I am over the warranty period and really don't expect any help from BMW. If these problems keep surfacing, I am sure that BMW will do something about it.

 

As far as other bikes breaking more or less than BMWs, well all I can say is this: How many other brands x owners put the miles on the machines that we do? There are others, yes, but a small percentage.

 

Live life, be happy and enjoy the ride!

 

A proud BMW owner,

 

Steve

[James Clark]

My 68 R60/2 is less trouble than my 2 newer machines.

 

That's because your /2 was overbuilt.

 

Your newer bikes are overengineered.

 

My grandfather was a plant manager at Douglas Aircraft. They needed a pipeline built between two buildings. They let the engineers design it. They designed it perfectly and then dimmensioned all of the individual components - being aircraft engineers - at +0"/-.03". Want to take a guess at why one end of the pipeline missed its target by 3 feet?

[James Clark]

I think I've come up with an answer to all these drive failures,it's called a chain! The whole idea in the first place was to have reduced maintenance by using shaft drive.As I look at yet another spline lube to be done,modern chains are looking better and better.

 

 

Not sure what chain drive has to do with gearbox input shaft spline failure.

 

Perhaps a chain drive primary would be a good idea.

[leikam]

I'm also of the opinion that if you don't trust it, sell it. There's no joy in riding with anxiety.

 

One option, that I don't know if you've considered, is to trade bikes. If you generally like the RT but are less than confident about your particular one, how about swapping for another?

 

Or there are lots of fine non-BMW alternatives that will take you where you want to go.

 

Good luck with the decision.

[Corkus]

Would I set out for a Mexico adventure with 57K on an 02 RT that exhibits no signs of problems whatsoever? Absolutely! But, if you have had any shifting difficluties, think long and hard now, then no way. I would spend 5 hours and make sure.

Steve, your comments are very much appreciated. So are jjohnson24's. I'll probably change my mind a few more times, but right now, this second, I'm thinking of observing the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" rule and waiting for at least one sticky shift.

[powerman]

If I'm selling then I'll do as Sean suggested and slap a new clutch disk on it and it may be good for 30K. Or, I rebuild or replace the trans now and keep the thing with more confidence that it might

Cali on yours, you probable could flip the clutch disc add 10 cents of lube and get 30K more mikes, just no wheelies, I would keep it.

 

I'm of the club that every vehicle will have its problems and or weak areas. Once those issues are resolved and proper maintenance schedules are determined future failures can be reduced to close to zero. It’s what you don't know that hurts you. In my book it’s part of the bikes “Character” and each bike is different base on who “Hand Crafted” each bike. I think a lot of things manufactured depend on the “little old Lady” who may of left and the "New Guy" used the "Wrong Stuff" or not enough, since it was never documented properly. You do have to have basic faith in the air frame though. With Knowledge of the collective, I think we are getting to know these things. Some of us have to do it the hard way. Some harder than others. I was taught long ago that you need to understand the equipment you depend on so you can anticipate problems and to determine work a rounds during a failure. You alone with have to determine your own level of risk/comfort. Just be realistic of the perceived risk with real risk of a particular failure happening.

[Black_Hoof]

My .02, when my '97 R1100RT stranded me for the 3rd time

last summer I decided to go backwards 4 years & give up the

high tech for the stone axe. I love my GS/PD & will ride it

to the ends of the earth. Life is too short to put up with

a bike that leaves you at the ice cream shop.

[Marty Hill]

 

"Live life, be happy and enjoy the ride! "

 

A proud BMW owner,

 

What Steve said.

 

Me worry?

Never, it takes too much energy.

[Spike]

Besides Marty, you change bikes quite a bit. I would be suprised if you were hit with any of this stuff.

[Marty Hill]

Spike,

 

I've also seen guys post that they would not take a brand new bike on a long trip. Some people just worry too much. Since 99% of my riding is solo, I think it's fair to state that I don't worry...I just do it.

 

If you are prone to worry, I'd say...bail out. Life is too short.

[Sean]

Hi Rick,

 

You need to do what you feel comfortable with, but allow me to share my experience with the same problem. I recall feeling exactly as you did when my splines failed--couldn't trust the bike, should I keep it or sell it, etc. I decided to keep it, and initially I installed a used (60K miles) transmission with good splines. 10K into the donor transmission, the input shaft bearings in that one failed. So then I made the decision to rebuild my original transmission, and swap in the good input shaft from the donor transmission into my original transmission. Russell Bynum came over and with his help the entire job was done, start to finish, in one weekend. Since then, my RT has been to last year's Death Valley Days, where I spent the weekend chasing Russell Bynum through the desert at triple-digit speeds, and then to last spring's Torrey gathering, where again, I spent most of my time wailing on my RT and chasing Russell through the mountains at ultra-stupid speeds. Add to that, it's served well as a commuting vehicle and for day rides. I wouldn't hesitate to take it on a cross-country trip tomorrow if needed. I recently changed the gear oil, and it came out of the transmission in that nice golden color, just like it looked when it was poured from the bottle. I will of course tear it down again in the future to lube the splines again, but it appears solid and reliable.

 

At only 36K, the rest of your transmission is relatively new. The internals should still be in good working order. I don't think I'd want to tear down a perfectly good transmission until it's really necessary, and I don't think yours warrants it just yet. Once you tear it down, you're pretty much committing to replacing all the seals, washers, bearings, etc. when you do it, and I don't think yours needs that yet.

 

Regardless of whether you rebuild your current transmission, just lube and reinstall your current transmission, install a new transmission, or install another used transmission, no matter what you'll still need to tear it down in 30K-40K to inspect and re-lube those splines anyway. Given that, if it were me, I'd lube up those splines and put it back together. Then plan to tear it back down at 70K (which you'll do--or should do--regardless of what decision you make now) and decide what to do at that point.

[akasjl]

About four months ago, I was in the same frame of mind. I had a wiring harness, RID and clutch problem to the tune of $3,000 plus and have not even had the bike for two years yet. The service people even noted that my bike had more problems than normal. Fortuntately, my bike was still under warranty. Had it not been, I would not have been happy.

 

I went back and forth about either tradining it or getting a non BMW bike. What bothered me most was that I had three Japanese bikes prior to the RT, and never had an major issue w/any of them. I believe still that Japanese bikes are more reliable machines. This stated, I love my RT and decided to keep it.

 

This is the first bike I've owned that I loved at first site. And when I test rode it, that was it. It is a BMW, and you're going to have to pay more to service the bike b/c it is.

 

You will make the choice that is best for you. Just don't make a hasty one.

[whicks]

I should have added to my post about chain final drive.The typical UJM uses,as we all know,a unit construction engine/transmission set-up.Of course you still have to get the engines'output to the trans,it just seems the gear driven or HI-VO multi'link primary drive in modern bikes gives a lot less trouble than a "dry" spline to clutch disc.Given clean engine and trans oil,these unit systems seem to go on forever.My old Silverwing never gave any final drive problems in almost 20 years of use.Honda put a grease fitting in the final drive case right where the driveshaft and pinion shaft slid back and forth.Bmw could do this for us,eliminating this potential problem spot.Taking a look at the K1200S,with it's unit design,maybe down the road more BMW's will have a primary drive less prone to failure.Steve,thanks for pointing out the fact we only hear about the problem bikes.It's good to hear about the one's that didn't fail!

[PhillyFlash]

Rick,

Some good advice from both sides of the fence. The RT is a great bike, but not one without some problems. However, not all RT's have all the problems, and most have very few major problems. Most RT riders have gone well past 60,000 miles without a transmission failure. Some have had problems before 60k, and several have had problems with splines and transmission failures in the 60k to 75k range. However, the majority who have gone past 75k have done so without those problems. But they probably will occur at some point. Preventative service, as Sean describes and recommends, is one way to deal with it. With a bit of help from friends, and lots of good instruction, you could do it yourself, or pay a shop to do it. If you have an extended warranty as many of us have, you decide to wait longer before doing anything about it, as you know it will be covered. There is always the risk that you will be left high and dry on a trip, and only you can decide if you are willing to take that chance, as slight as it may or may not be. Other brands of bikes also can have problems that can leave you walking. If you can tolerate the risk without worrying all the time, keep it, fix it, and ride that hell out of it. If not, fix it correctly(since you now have publicly stated that it has problems), sell it for as much as you can, and get something else, even if it's another BMW. You can always keep them until the warranty expires then sell them and get something else (known as the Marty Hill system of motorcycle ownership).

 

Part of what you may be feeling is often referred to as Danielaphobia - an irrational, and debilitating, fear that your bike will experience widespread catastrophic failures, even though you've hardly ridden it, and few, if any, major problems have occurred. Danielaphobia results in a minimal amount of riding, and an excessive amount of worrying, complaining about nonexistent problems, publicly criticizing a motorcycle that you haven't even given a chance, and refusing the help of all individuals who are willing to help your bike to run in the best possible condition. Danielaphobia (not to be confused with Daniel phobia - a fear of Daniel) can be cured if treated early, but is incurable if left to fester. Don't allow yourself to become a victim.

 

I have 44,000 on my 2000 R1100RT, and have some concerns about what my go wrong, but I don't worry about it. I'll do whatever maintenance is required to keep it running well, and stay aware of any changes that may be warning of an impending problem. I plan on taking a 6000 mile trip this summer (I'll probably have about 48-50,000 miles on it when I start), but unless something feels wrong, I'm not going to worry about the bike at all. If it breaks down, I'll be royally pissed, and I'll probably bitch and moan about it, but that's how it goes. I'll deal with what I have to if and when the time comes. Until then, I plan on riding it like I did when it had 20,000 miles on it. A bike that you're afraid to leave town on is a bike that needs to be sold. Good luck.

[SnowDog]

Part of what you may be feeling is often referred to as Danielaphobia - an irrational, and debilitating, fear that your bike will experience widespread catastrophic failures, even though you've hardly ridden it, and few, if any, major problems have occurred. Danielaphobia results in a minimal amount of riding, and an excessive amount of worrying, complaining about nonexistent problems, publicly criticizing a motorcycle that you haven't even given a chance, and refusing the help of all individuals who are willing to help your bike to run in the best possible condition. Danielaphobia (not to be confused with Daniel phobia - a fear of Daniel) can be cured if treated early, but is incurable if left to fester. Don't allow yourself to become a victim.

 

[ShovelStrokeEd]

With the exception of HD and even they have gone to belts, name one motorcycle designed and built in the last 15 years or so with a chain primary drive.

 

Your profile doesn't show your engineering or riding experience backgrounds but I'm starting to wonder. Why would you suggest a move to such an archaic system and do you have any idea of the complexity involved in such a move on a bike with its engine and drive train arranged like a BMW's?

 

Input is always welcome but please, think before you post.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Danielaphobia

 

ROFLAMO. Great call!

[flatbutt]

Would I set out for a Mexico adventure with 57K on an 02 RT that exhibits no signs of problems whatsoever? Absolutely! But, if you have had any shifting difficluties, think long and hard now, then no way. I would spend 5 hours and make sure.

Steve, your comments are very much appreciated. So are jjohnson24's. I'll probably change my mind a few more times, but right now, this second, I'm thinking of observing the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" rule and waiting for at least one sticky shift.

 

Well how about some more obfuscation? My '99 S has been giving me sticky downshifts for two seasons. But its not progressing and so I'll wait and see. Then again I'm just a BMW squid

[Jim VonBaden]

I'm also of the opinion that if you don't trust it, sell it. There's no joy in riding with anxiety.

 

One option, that I don't know if you've considered, is to trade bikes. If you generally like the RT but are less than confident about your particular one, how about swapping for another?

 

Or there are lots of fine non-BMW alternatives that will take you where you want to go.

 

Good luck with the decision.

 

The problem with this is that you may end up with a bike in worse shape than the one you own.

 

I have 66K miles on my RS, and have had a couple issues, but I KNOW the bike, and would trust it more than an unknown bike with half the miles on it.

 

You certainly don't want to end up with Danielphobia! So do what makes YOU comfortable.

 

Jim

[rtrox]

My .02, when my '97 R1100RT stranded me for the 3rd time

last summer I decided to go backwards 4 years & give up the

high tech for the stone axe. I love my GS/PD & will ride it

to the ends of the earth. Life is too short to put up with

a bike that leaves you at the ice cream shop.

 

Black Hoof,

From the data I've seen, airheads have as many spline issues as the oilheads. As I've got a '96 RT, I'm a bit curious, if you don't mind me asking, about the nature of your '97 RT's failures.

 

Thanks

[Cali Kid]

Sean thanx for all the great feedback, I hear what your saying. I was browsing articles on ST1300s and thinking "they're cool, they're fast", but it's not the RT that I have come to enjoy. So I am inclined then to follow your advice and go ride. As far as relubing in 30-40K, I have an idea that I will need to test to increase that figure. The test will be conducted in service and I'lll have to ket you know how it comes out in 30K

 

Howard that Daniel stuff

Fotunately I ride more than worry, 20K in the first year with the RT After considering much input here I am leaning back over the fence. I am not one to make hasty decisions, if anything I over analyze before deciding, suffering from severe analysis-paralysis

So I get the bugs out (worms in this case) and I have a bike that inspires confidence because I've done the work and know it's been done right. Right?

 

I plan on riding it like I did when it had 20,000 miles on it. A bike that you're afraid to leave town on is a bike that needs to be sold.

AMEN!

 

A large part of my feeling is BMW's denial. German arogance I think. "Vat? Das bike ist goot!" (pardon my German). I hate dealing with the unknown on a machine. Unknown is exactly what I'd be geting if I ventured into another bike. Besides, considering the look of the new RT mine destined to become a classic!

 

fatbutt I agree,

I'd like to add for those of you that think sticky shifting is a good indicator for the spline problems My bike shifted flawlessly with bad splines! Sticky shifting is not a good indicator. You must take the bike apart to make the determination! .

[Frank Cloud]

As one of the recent winners in the spline damage category, I say this: Look at the bike from a different standpoit. We, meaning Rick, Kenny, Batsquatch, and I are the recent and publicly known spline related problem posters, while Ted, Steve Foote and Chris K (72K miles), are the recent splines OK posters.

 

I believe that the problem is not overly huge (unless it happens to you).

 

There are thousands of RTs with millions of miles on them that do not have problems. Would I set out for a Mexico adventure with 57K on an 02 RT that exhibits no signs of problems whatsoever? Absolutely! But, if you have had any shifting difficluties, think long and hard now, then no way. I would spend 5 hours and make sure. Break downs in foreign countries are much more catastrophic on the wallet and logistical planning I am sure.

 

What I will do is this: If BMW helps me, well that would be great. If not, I will replace my tranny with the used one I found and be on my happy way for whatever comes next.

 

I agree with Ken - break downs are part of the adventure - heck, look at all the help Adam had with his recent fiasco! The network on this board should give everyone here a piece of mind, knowing that there are "friends" everywhere who are willing to help. If you are an MOA member, or have access to the anonymous book, that is a wonderful resource as well.

 

I just put $700 into my daughter's car, front discs, calipers, break lines etc. I paid that on a car with only 48K and didn't complain much at all. That problem is well documented and should have been covered - again I am out of warranty. One of the costs of owing a vehicle.

 

Don't sweat the small stuff, just have a plan for the uh oh!

 

I bought this RT used, just like my first one. I am over the warranty period and really don't expect any help from BMW. If these problems keep surfacing, I am sure that BMW will do something about it.

 

As far as other bikes breaking more or less than BMWs, well all I can say is this: How many other brands x owners put the miles on the machines that we do? There are others, yes, but a small percentage.

 

Live life, be happy and enjoy the ride!

 

A proud BMW owner,

 

Steve

 

My only reservation would be this, there maybe thousands of RT's on the road, but look at the failures on this board alone. That tells me that the problem is fairly widespread.

[Frank Cloud]

Just curious if anyone knows how Vonnie Glaves 300k plus RS has faired in the tranny area? And, if spline lubes were done on a regular basis?

[James Clark]

With the exception of HD and even they have gone to belts, name one motorcycle designed and built in the last 15 years or so with a chain primary drive.

 

 

Kawasaki VN2000

[ShovelStrokeEd]

A V-twin cruiser with both its crankshaft and transmission shafts deposed laterally in the frame and a multiplate wet clutch. Not even close to the same sort of beast.

 

The point is that a shaft driven motorcycle with a longitudinal crank shaft such as ours is nearly forced to use this configuration for primary drive. In fact, from an engineering standpoint, there is nothing wrong with this system. Have a look at the number of automobiles on the road. That there is an execution problem, there can be no doubt. The number of failures is starting to become significant, even in a group as large as this. Add to this the number of severely worn splines that are showing up and it does point to a problem. Whether BMW will ever address it beyond the change in material on post '02 bikes remains to be seen.

[KDeline]

Just curious if anyone knows how Vonnie Glaves 300k plus RS has faired in the tranny area? And, if spline lubes were done on a regular basis?

 

She has a husband that can tear that bike apart blindfolded.

[SteveHebert]

[My only reservation would be this, there maybe thousands of RT's on the road, but look at the failures on this board alone. That tells me that the problem is fairly widespread.

 

Ken,

 

I understand your concern here. There are over 11000 members that have come and gone on this board and fewer than 30 have posted anything about splines. I am sure there are many more stories that have not been told, but that still is a very small percentage of the thousands of bikes produced. You are hearing about the problem so much, because it is the same people posting over and over again. Sorry that I am one of the guilty ones that had a mild case of Danielphobia. .

 

The point is this, every vehicle has a problem, some more than others. There is nothing that can be done about it.

 

Two IBRs ago, the fella on the Ural had to fix that bike repeatedly, building his own pushrods out of drill bits. He knew the bike was not perfect, but rode it anyway because he loved the machine. Learn to maintain the machine and ride it forever.

 

Rick,

 

Maybe you didn't experience shifting problems, because the splines were not "bad enough" yet. No one really knows what the limit is before the catastrophic failure occurs. Some say ignorance is bliss. Had we not looked until 70K, we would be much happier right now. You and I are in the same boat and I really think that I am going to follow Sean's advise. I had determined before that I will ride it for another 12K and tear it down at the next BB&B. The only thing that will change that is if BMW comes through.

 

The ST just doesn't do it for me either. It is nice, but it's not a BMW. When I am in the garage, looking at the lines of the RT, I am very happy. All is good!

 

My fairings are due back today and I will be riding it tomorrow. I will fix the splines "later".

 

Steve

[Marty Hill]

Fewer than thirty out of 11000. Thanks Steve for returning some sanity to the thread.

[James Clark]

A V-twin cruiser with both its crankshaft and transmission shafts deposed laterally in the frame and a multiplate wet clutch. Not even close to the same sort of beast.

 

The point is that a shaft driven motorcycle with a longitudinal crank shaft such as ours is nearly forced to use this configuration for primary drive. In fact, from an engineering standpoint, there is nothing wrong with this system. Have a look at the number of automobiles on the road. That there is an execution problem, there can be no doubt. The number of failures is starting to become significant, even in a group as large as this. Add to this the number of severely worn splines that are showing up and it does point to a problem. Whether BMW will ever address it beyond the change in material on post '02 bikes remains to be seen.

 

They could put the gearbox under the engine like a CX500T. This would allow a shorter wheelbase or a longer swingarm.

 

To continue with the current layout would require that the engineers step back and look into the root causes of the problems. To just let the marketeers stonewall and claim things are better than they used to be doesn't seem to be making many people happy.

 

I know BMW employs engineers that can design a quality product. Look what they did with the V-Rod.

[Black_Hoof]

Jim,

 

My '97 strandings had nothing to do with the splines, & yes

I'm aware of the failings of the late R-bikes paralever drive shaft u-joint. A intermittant HES problem was the apparent problem on my '97. I'm just more comfortable dealing with the technology of the air heads. I enjoyed my

RT until a rampant case of Danielphobia overcame me. BTW,

has anyone seen Daniel??????????

[steve.foote]

Fewer than thirty out of 11000. Thanks Steve for returning some sanity to the thread.

 

Amen!

[PhillyFlash]

Fewer than thirty out of 11000. Thanks Steve for returning some sanity to the thread.

 

Let's get an idea of how many we are talking about on this board. Take the survey here.

[Cali Kid]

Rick,

 

Maybe you didn't experience shifting problems, because the splines were not "bad enough" yet. No one really knows what the limit is before the catastrophic failure occurs. Some say ignorance is bliss. Had we not looked until 70K, we would be much happier right now. You and I are in the same boat and I really think that I am going to follow Sean's advise.

 

Not bad enough? Hmmm, Maybe the pics I posted don't do the wear justice, but those clutch splines are 90% gone. I truly believe that complete failure was just around the corner. As far as shifting goes, maybe I'm just that good There is no way in BMW hell that it was going to make 70K. So you see, I am much happier that I found it before it stranded me.

 

next BB&B

What is that? Bed, Breakfast and beer

[SteveHebert]

I couldn't tell much from the clutch picture, but the input splines looked so-so. BB&B is Beer, Brats and Beemers, an annual event held at mi casa.

 

Steve

[Frank Cloud]

Thirty out of 11,000, means that on this board alone, one out of 366 bikes have had problems. That would assume there are 11,000 active members on the board, and that everyone who's had problems, posted them. Sorry, but one out of 366 isn't anything to brag about.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

I know BMW employs engineers that can design a quality product. Look what they did with the V-Rod

 

I hope you are kidding me. Can you say Porsche?

 

CX 500 lasted a couple of years and got dropped. Think a BMW is top heavy now? Move the crank up a foot or so and see what you get. Throttle bodies in the knees anyone? Let's just drop it, we're kinda off topic anyway.

[steve.foote]

Thirty out of 11,000, means that on this board alone, one out of 366 bikes have had problems. That would assume there are 11,000 active members on the board, and that everyone who's had problems, posted them. Sorry, but one out of 366 isn't anything to brag about.

 

Frank,

 

1 out of 366 is a failure rate of 0.27% or a quarter of one percent. I would be really suprised if the failure rate of anything manufactured is that low.

 

Looking at it another way, one could argue that 335 of 336 bikes had no problems. Wouldn't you agree that a 99.73% success rate is, well, successful.

[espresso]

99.73% success rate is pretty damn good! Any way you look at it, these newer "high technology" machines are bound to have a problem, here and there. But, Sh*t happens, and you deal with it. Replacing everything every so many miles is not my cup of tea. If it breaks, or appears to be ready to break, then replace it. Carry a spare "thingy" or two with you on long trips, but otherwise, just ride. Today, there are cell phones and credit cards to assist in roadside break downs. It's the world we live in today.

Otherwise............take the bus!

[SageRider]

There are over 11000 members that have come and gone on this board and fewer than 30 have posted anything about splines.

Do members automatically roll off after a certain period of inactivity???

Current stat shows 7655 members. Of that number, approximately one third have not posted even once. This takes the potential reporting pool down to about 5000. In reality, the reporting pool is much smaller as all the very low count posters / inactive members are not subtracted from the 5000 member pool.

This starts making the 30 spline failures ( and no, I'm not checking to be sure this figure is accurate!) a much more significant percentage!

 

While on the subject of defect percentages, the percentage of theoretically faulty Firestone tires involved in the Ford Explorer episode was well under 1%.