Someone asked me why I might have mild issues with LEO

February 27, 2008

A fellow rider asked me why I can't stand LEO - actually, he said I sound like a 'cop-hating psycho' and wanted to know what kind of criminal enterprise I engage in to dislike police so much (i.e did I get beat while resisting arrest or something). Since many people assume that you must be a horrible criminal if you despise LEO, I was rather shocked to be asked, rather than the usual (and incorrect) assumptions being made privately by the rider.

So, if you ever hear me bad mouth LEO, it isn't over tickets, or some dumb-ass general hatred. Thou most LEO seem to find too much humor in causing massive financial damage to people with their tickets. But again, beside the point.

My hatred stems from my homeless period. When I was 17, I slept in the street (i.e. homeless). So one night, I found a lovely park with a jungle gym. The jungle gym has a cork-type material to walk on, rather than sand or just dirt. It was VERY comfortable to sleep on, so I parked my sleeping bag there.

I had my slumber disturbed with pepper spray at 3am (yes, they sprayed pepper spray in my face while I was sound asleep), and told to leave the park by 6 LEO. 4 cars worth. Since pepper spray tends to make the eyes water, snot come out of your nose, choke you, horribly burn in your eyes/nose/throat, puke, gag, and otherwise make life miserable, I was understandably slow in getting up and gathering my sleeping bag. This caused a baton to the back of my knees, knocking me down and causing another 5 minute delay in gathering stuff up and moving on. I didn't have the ability to curse at that moment, so I tend to curse now to make up for it.

This happened again 2 weeks later, whilst sleeping in a ditch near a freeway. There were only 3 LEO that time - I guess my lack of resistance the first time made them feel safer the 2nd time. As if the guns and batons are not enough already. There was no baton used the 2nd time. Instead, they took joy in driving past me every few minutes to make sure I was still moving along, and not stopping anywhere to try to wash my face or sit and gather myself.

While I admit the 2nd time was probably in response to my going to the sherrif station and complaining about the 1st time, I can't figure out the 1st time at all. Not that there is anything to figure out - illegal activity like this is what LEO does best, based on first-hand experience.

So my apologies to everyone if you ever hear my cursing LEO - I try not to and succeed 99.9% of the time. At least you know it isn't because I engage in a massive underground criminal enterprise.

And yes - I would not be surprised if some LEO who read this board take offense - if I were LEO, there would be the small possibility that I would be deeply offended that anyone would dare not like me over such trivial treatment while homeless. Homeless people are SCUM who should submit meekly to such treatment at any time. I should have been thankful they didn't treat me like a King.

February 27, 2008

Ahhh, for the good old days of vagrancy statutes.

Pilgrim

February 27, 2008

That is an amazing story. I am glad your fortunes have improved since then. I also hope you get over your "hatred" of LEOs.

I was one for many years,and I do not remotely resemble the officers in your chronicle...so make sure you don't lump me in! Especially since we are nearly neighbors!

Cheers,

Steve in So Cal

February 27, 2008

Ahhh, for the good old days of vagrancy statutes.

We used to have a delightful one. Doesn't this sound wonderfully Victorian? Doggone jugglers and night walkers:

All persons who are idle and dissolute, or who go about begging; all persons who use any shell game, sleight-of-hand or juggling trick, or other unlawful game to cheat, defraud, or unlawfully obtain money or other valuable thing; pilfers; confidence men; common drunkards; common night walkers; person lewd, wanton, or lascivious in speech or behavior; common brawlers; persons who are habitually neglectful of their employment or their calling, and do not lawfully provide for themselves or for the support of their families; and all persons who are idle or dissolute and who neglect all lawful business, and who habitually misspend their time by frequenting houses of ill-fame or gaming houses; all persons lodging in or found in the night-time in sheds, barns, or unoccupied buildings or lodging in the open air, and not giving a good account of themselves; and all persons who are known to be thieves, burglars, or pickpockets, either by their own confession or otherwise, or by having been convicted of larceny, burglary, or other crime against the laws of the state punishable by imprisonment in the state prison or in a house of correction of any city, and having no lawful means of support, are habitually found prowling around any steamboat landing, railroad depot, banking institution, broker's office, place of public amusement, auction room, store, shop, or crowded public way, public conveyance, or at any public gathering or assembly, or lounging about any court room, private dwelling houses, or are found in any house of ill-fame or gambling house, are hereby declared to be vagabonds, and shall be fined not to exceed $100.00 for each offense.

February 27, 2008

Why even post this?

There are bad cops and there are bad homeless people.

February 27, 2008

He doesn't like Ventura BMW either.

February 27, 2008

Why even post this?

There are bad cops and there are bad homeless people.

Sounds like someone needs to be tased.

February 27, 2008

Could it be your use of LEO as some sort of entity? You had a bad experience with SIX officers and now you "despise" all LEOs? You lump them together--much as you accuse them of doing with homeless people.

I'm sorry that you went through a rough period in your life but I truly don't see the point of this post. In my opinion your all encompassing hatred will bring you nothing but grief and trouble.

February 27, 2008

I for one wasn't questioning your good judgment at all UNTIL you decided to post this here......

February 27, 2008

LEO I am grateful for the service they provide. Yes some are bad cops but I know cops that are great people and they have even paid he price for standing up for what is right in their own department. I want to say thank you for getting paid 40,000 to 50,000 to get shot at by the same guy week after week because we can not find a good reason to keep some people in jail. Yes, some cops are bad but most I am thankful for.

Blessings to you all.

February 27, 2008

Why even post this?

There are bad cops and there are bad homeless people.

It's true, what you say Eric. I don't know why he posted it, but I would point out that there are a lot of posts on this board by and about LEOs in heroic situations on the thin blue line. No one questions why those are posted. It seems only fair that we tolerate this with equal grace as well, for as you point out, both sides of LE are real.

Hope you did ok on that fire yesterday.

Thank you for your service.

Jan

February 27, 2008

Lighten up buddy, you can lane split legally in CA...

February 27, 2008

Sorry to hear about your awful experience, however, there are good and bad people in all walks of life. Deciding to hate an entire popultion over an encounter or two, especialy ones with guns and power, is a recipe for disaster.

I would figure out a way to get past this before more misery comes your way. Anger management is a great thing, and there is plenty of help available.

February 27, 2008

Do you even hate LEOs off duty???? Cause I sure hate to meet you a ride or something. I am suppose to go on a ride with some board members here in April, hope you are not going, if you are I think I need to cancel.

February 27, 2008

Wrong John, let him cancel. I'd much rather hang with you guys.

February 27, 2008

Don't feed the trolls....

February 27, 2008

You never know....maybe what you say these LEO's did to you helped spur you past what you used to be....

Hate is a very strong word and considering how you rose above what you used to be that word should not be in you vocabulary....

Not only that now that you are now a taxpayer you are now contributing to thier paychecks....AIN'T THAT A KICK IN THE BUTT

February 27, 2008

Stereotyping, of any group of people about any subject is always shortsighted, almost always damaging, and always incorrect. I can understand your harbored resentment, but please remember than no two (or four, or six) people of any type/group/profession/etc. represents the whole.

February 27, 2008

Stereotyping, of any group of people about any subject is always shortsighted, almost always damaging, and always incorrect. I can understand your harbored resentment, but please remember than no two (or four, or six) people of any type/group/profession/etc. represents the whole.

Does that apply to Hummer drivers too?

February 27, 2008

WOW! Horrible, truly horrible. I can only imagine what you went through. I'd also like the "Paul Harvey" on this too! I have also been mistreated by LEO's...and my life depends on them...but to have general hatred of all because of a few, that's silly.

February 27, 2008

OK, so those are your MILD issues.

Any serious problems?

February 27, 2008

I also had some truly horrible experiences with cops that were way over the line in my youth. Since then, I have found that most cops are ethical most of the time. Some go both ways, depending on mood/situation. And a few are not worthy of their presumably human skin. Just like everybody else.

So, I am always polite, ever wary, and have my replies rehearsed. When they are good, they are very good. When they are bad, you can really get hurt in a hurry.

February 27, 2008

Stereotyping, of any group of people about any subject is always shortsighted, almost always damaging, and always incorrect. I can understand your harbored resentment, but please remember than no two (or four, or six) people of any type/group/profession/etc. represents the whole.

Speaking of stereotyping - did anybody see this news item:

The leader of a shark tour whose customer was mauled to death Saturday was warned that his practice of allowing people to swim close to hungry sharks could lead to tragedy, a colleague said.

Markus Groh -- an Austrian lawyer -- died after being gnawed during a dive led by Jim Abernethy's south Florida company.

So much for that old lawyer joke.

February 27, 2008

Stereotyping, of any group of people about any subject is always shortsighted, almost always damaging, and always incorrect. I can understand your harbored resentment, but please remember than no two (or four, or six) people of any type/group/profession/etc. represents the whole.

Does that apply to Hummer drivers too?

No, the 0.01% of people who have a Hummer and actually need it are exempt.

February 27, 2008

Stereotyping, of any group of people about any subject is always shortsighted, almost always damaging, and always incorrect. I can understand your harbored resentment, but please remember than no two (or four, or six) people of any type/group/profession/etc. represents the whole.

Does that apply to Hummer drivers too?

No, the 0.01% of people who have a Hummer and actually need it are exempt.

Who gets to make these rules?

Did a hummer spray pepper spray in your face or something?

February 27, 2008

I would be intrigued to hear a little more of your background. Not too many people move from being homeless to being a network engineer with a 2007 K1200GT, I would guess. How long were you homeless? Was this something that happened over a few days or a week or so when you hit a bump in the road, or were you homeless for a longer period of time?

Your story has an immediacy to it that made me, and others who have responded so far, feel like you still have a lot of resentment about it. I had a couple of tickets on highway 395 on the eastern border of California, far, far from anywhere where I would harm anyone other than myself by my speeding, and I guess if the occasion arises for me to tell anyone about them, I still feel a little resentment about it. But then I wasn't tazed or sprayed, because I acted like a good little boy. If I had been tazed or sprayed in spite of acting like a good little boy, I suppose my resentment might be a little closer to the surface.

Anyway, our society needs more people to move from being homeless to being network engineers with fancy motorcycles, so if you have anything to offer in that regard, I would like to hear it. Think of the alternatives: you could have ended up as a lawyer (or tax accountant)!

February 27, 2008

Stereotyping, of any group of people about any subject is always shortsighted, almost always damaging, and always incorrect. I can understand your harbored resentment, but please remember than no two (or four, or six) people of any type/group/profession/etc. represents the whole.

I just got a call from my friends at HOG, they were wondering if they could get the same consideration?

February 27, 2008

I didn't have the ability to curse at that moment, so I tend to curse now to make up for it.

Chris,

Sorry to hear about your misfortune. If it will make you feel better please feel free to curse me.. I promise not to spray you, tase you, or kick your ass.

February 27, 2008

I promise not to spray you, tase you, or kick your ass.

Note he left 'shoot you' off that list.

j/k

February 27, 2008

Why even post this?

There are bad cops and there are bad homeless people.

Sounds like someone needs to be tased.

Pick me! Pick me!

Steve in So Cal

February 27, 2008

Pick me! Pick me!

Steve in So Cal

We would, but you're never in one place long enough.

February 27, 2008

I just got a call from my friends at HOG, they were wondering if they could get the same consideration?

You're just mad because there's no stereotype of Ulysses owners and you don't know how you're supposed to dress when you ride the thing.

February 28, 2008

I was off that day dude. It wasn't me. You're safe in here though man. One day at the county fair a group of young people not of my color beat me and took the only gold chain I ever owned. I tried to tell the cop at the front gate as I was on my way out ( bleeding). He could have cared less. Never even got my name or description of the dirt bags that were still IN the fairgrounds looking for more targets. I chose to do something about that and two years later I started my career. Now 18 years later I have no prejudice of anyone based on anything BUT the bahavior and attitude they have. There are good people and bad people. Everything else is semantics. Sounds like you met some bad people that happen to wear the uniform but could never truly be an LEO at heart. I hate crap like that, it takes so much more effort for the rest of us to convince people that we are doing what we do for the right reasons and are willing to die at a moments notice to save someone we have never met.

February 28, 2008

Stereotyping, of any group of people about any subject is always shortsighted, almost always damaging, and always incorrect. I can understand your harbored resentment, but please remember than no two (or four, or six) people of any type/group/profession/etc. represents the whole.

Does that apply to Hummer drivers too?

Sorry, but no way no how. Not only are Hummers conspicuously consumptive, they are too UGLY to be seen on public roads.

February 28, 2008

Wow, sorry for your bad experience! IMHO LEO's are truly the "thin blue line", they are all that separates our society from anarchy

February 28, 2008

You're just mad because there's no stereotype of Ulysses owners

Yes there is, but this is MRN.

February 28, 2008

I admit the worst thing I've ever done is mutter some angry words under my breath when I got a traffic ticket. On all too many other occassions my dealings with police have been beyond professional and helpful. I was taught at a young age to treat people the way you'd like to be treated. So far so good.

I too appreciate LEO's and all that they do (and sympathize with them for the scum they have to deal with on a daily basis)

But geez, blanketed hatred towards the guys you call when your wife's getting raped??? So let me guess, when you see some guy taking off with your RT, your're not calling the cops? yeah, right

Sounds like you've gotten your act together. Wouldn't it be fair to forget the past based on the fact you're not the same person you are now?

FWIW, I would love to hear their side of the story.

RPG

February 29, 2008

I was off that day dude. It wasn't me. You're safe in here though man. One day at the county fair a group of young people not of my color beat me and took the only gold chain I ever owned. I tried to tell the cop at the front gate as I was on my way out ( bleeding). He could have cared less. Never even got my name or description of the dirt bags that were still IN the fairgrounds looking for more targets. I chose to do something about that and two years later I started my career. Now 18 years later I have no prejudice of anyone based on anything BUT the bahavior and attitude they have. There are good people and bad people. Everything else is semantics. Sounds like you met some bad people that happen to wear the uniform but could never truly be an LEO at heart. I hate crap like that, it takes so much more effort for the rest of us to convince people that we are doing what we do for the right reasons and are willing to die at a moments notice to save someone we have never met.

That right there is some righteous stuff, and demonstrates that if you don't like the situation, you CAN do something about it by directing your focus in a positive way. Hope in your mind you've been able to square up the dis-service by both the bad guys and the supposed good guy at the fair that day.....sounds like you have. Good on ya, and glad to see someone like you wearing the uniform.

February 29, 2008

Assuming the OP is for real, he did say "mild issues." The guy went through some sh** that most of you living your sheltered lives can't even imagine, yet you slam him for being resentful. Should he hate all LEO? Obviously not, I think that has been established. Is it a normal human emotion to hate those who hurt you? Certainly. Have the rest of you made dumber mistakes at some point in your lives???.......

February 29, 2008

Have the rest of you made dumber mistakes at some point in your lives???.......

Many people here never make mistakes. That's why they can take such delight in pointing out the imperfections of others.

February 29, 2008

Assuming the OP is for real, he did say "mild issues." The guy went through some sh** that most of you living your sheltered lives can't even imagine, yet you slam him for being resentful. Should he hate all LEO? Obviously not, I think that has been established. Is it a normal human emotion to hate those who hurt you? Certainly. Have the rest of you made dumber mistakes at some point in your lives???.......

Not true.

amish shooting victims forgive gunman

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/04/national/main2059816.shtml

The world is full of examples contrary to that statement.

February 29, 2008

Is it a normal human emotion to hate those who hurt you? Certainly.

Not true.

amish shooting victims forgive gunman

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/04/national/main2059816.shtml

The world is full of examples contrary to that statement.

So which is normal, and which is counter to the norm?

February 29, 2008

Is it a normal human emotion to hate those who hurt you? Certainly.

Not true.

amish shooting victims forgive gunman

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/04/national/main2059816.shtml

The world is full of examples contrary to that statement.

So which is normal, and which is counter to the norm?

I can't tell which is normal, but I can relate my own experience. I have, on a couple of occasions, found myself harboring simmering resentment toward others for doing some things that were beyond the pale. Once I decided to forgive them and move on, it made a huge difference in my life, freeing me of preoccupation with having been wronged. When I've done this--and it isn't easy--my own happiness increased unbelievably.

Hatred and resentment gnaws at the hater more than the hated (who is often totally unaffected or doesn't even realize that he is the object of resentment). And, in the case of hatred (or let's just leave it at "issues," the term used by the OP) directed toward an entire group, most of whom had nothing to do with the original affront, it doesn't even begin to make sense.

February 29, 2008

Perhaps David will weigh in.

But, in most Christian creeds there is a dichotomy between the Old/New and the eye for an eye versus the forgive those who trespass against us.

Which side you weigh in on may be influenced by individual circumstances.

I feel that any sentient being can examine the world we live in, see how we treat one another, and decide for themself.

Unfortunately, too many then want to impose that rationale on others, whether they agree with them or not.

And it is the or not group who suffer.

When the definition of "normal" is created by the State, particularly a Theocracy, "normal" can be based on hatred.

I choose another path.

To live in the past, to infect your present with hatred based on events from the past, may obscure the vision of the future and perpetuate rather than solve the problem.

Best wishes.

Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: Igor, would you mind telling me whose brain I did put in?

Igor: And you won't be angry?

Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: I will NOT be angry.

Igor: Abby someone.

Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: Abby someone. Abby who?

Igor: Abby Normal.

Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: Abby Normal?

Igor: I'm almost sure that was the name.

February 29, 2008

When the definition of "normal" is created by the State, particularly a Theocracy, "normal" can be based on hatred.

I wasn't wondering what any outside agency would advocate; I'm wondering what the average Joe, left to his own devices, would do when wronged. Would he forgive and forget, or would he remember and be embittered for the rest of his life? Examples can be found all over the world that fall on both sides of that fence; there are people who have made hatred and simmering resentment over centuries-old impersonal transgressions part of their cultural identity, and there are others - such as the aforementioned Amish - who have somehow demonstrated the ability to forgive a very personal, recent, wrong done unto them.

So are either of these things representative of the typical human bean?

Would Average Joe be able to forgive someone who had murdered his children?

Is long-lived cultural resentment more typical (e.g. Pakistan/India, parts of southern/eastern Europe), or is it more common to bury the hatchet and move forward together (e.g. former WW2 Allied countries and Axis countries)?

February 29, 2008

There is a special kind of hurt to injustice when it occurs under the color of the law. That injustice carries the weight of societal judgment and power. The feelings of rejection that accompany such a betrayal may run so deep as when in aboriginal societies a miscreant was declared an outcast, and was seen as dead, or not really there after that point. Such feelings had the real power to kill.

Here, on this board, people routinely post their joys and their heartaches, their sorrows and their triumphs, their doubts and their certainties. They do so for advice, encouragement, support, or whatever. They do it in despair and in celebration. They do it, at least in part, because they trust us and value our opinions.

Rarely do we question their veracity. Rarely do we ask, "why post this here". Rarely do we call them a troll. Rarely do we blame the victim for the crime. Rarely do we respond to a heartfelt outpouring with the utter disdain and hatefulness that Pilgrim displays in the first response on this thread. Rarely do we respond to such a story by blessing the criminal aggressors as texasaggie97 did.

Each of these responses perpetuates the original crime. Each of these response reopens the wound. Each of these disdainful responses deepens the hurt and reinforces the societal judgment originally passed by those 6 LEOs.

Perhaps the kingpinofdisks would be better off to forgive and move on as has been suggested, but if our responses are typical of society-at-large, I'd have to say that it doesn't seem as if society is prepared to allow him to do so. Rather it appears that, as in the old days, when the rape victim must have been to blame, that we are more inclined to continue the victimization.

Perhaps the kingpinofdisks posted here in attempt to move on, looking for healing. If so, we certainly failed him again.

Ours can be a very cruel and ugly society.

Jan

February 29, 2008

When the definition of "normal" is created by the State, particularly a Theocracy, "normal" can be based on hatred.

I wasn't wondering what any outside agency would advocate; I'm wondering what the average Joe, left to his own devices, would do when wronged. Would he forgive and forget, or would he remember and be embittered for the rest of his life? Examples can be found all over the world that fall on both sides of that fence; there are people who have made hatred and simmering resentment over centuries-old impersonal transgressions part of their cultural identity, and there are others - such as the aforementioned Amish - who have somehow demonstrated the ability to forgive a very personal, recent, wrong done unto them.

So are either of these things representative of the typical human bean?

Would Average Joe be able to forgive someone who had murdered his children?

Is long-lived cultural resentment more typical (e.g. Pakistan/India, parts of southern/eastern Europe), or is it more common to bury the hatchet and move forward together (e.g. former WW2 Allied countries and Axis countries)?

Well I think it's a very good question actually. "Normal" would have to be defined as the way the majority of people react to similar situations. BISFA do humans in general harbor resentment at being wronged, or 'forgive and forget' I wonder if there are any studies? My gut reaction would be that they, in the majority, 'forgive and forget.' If not in as much as almost everyone is harmed in some way or another from time to time, the whole human population would be one giant pot of resentments. And it (probably?) isn't. Then again...

February 29, 2008

kingpinofdisks,

I am sorry that you were treated so in my name. I wish you peace.

Jan

February 29, 2008

There is a special kind of hurt to injustice when it occurs under the color of the law. That injustice carries the weight of societal judgment and power. The feelings of rejection that accompany such a betrayal may run so deep as when in aboriginal societies a miscreant was declared an outcast, and was seen as dead, or not really there after that point. Such feelings had the real power to kill.

Here, on this board, people routinely post their joys and their heartaches, their sorrows and their triumphs, their doubts and their certainties. They do so for advice, encouragement, support, or whatever. They do it in despair and in celebration. They do it, at least in part, because they trust us and value our opinions.

Rarely do we question their veracity. Rarely do we ask, "why post this here". Rarely do we call them a troll. Rarely do we blame the victim for the crime. Rarely do we respond to a heartfelt outpouring with the utter disdain and hatefulness that Pilgrim displays in the first response on this thread. Rarely do we respond to such a story by blessing the criminal aggressors as texasaggie97 did.

Each of these responses perpetuates the original crime. Each of these response reopens the wound. Each of these disdainful responses deepens the hurt and reinforces the societal judgment originally passed by those 6 LEOs.

Perhaps the kingpinofdisks would be better off to forgive and move on as has been suggested, but if our responses are typical of society-at-large, I'd have to say that it doesn't seem as if society is prepared to allow him to do so. Rather it appears that, as in the old days, when the rape victim must have been to blame, that we are more inclined to continue the victimization.

Perhaps the kingpinofdisks posted here in attempt to move on, looking for healing. If so, we certainly failed him again.

Ours can be a very cruel and ugly society.

Jan

Possibly, or perhaps people are skeptical of the facts as told by the OP and view the post as a likely unfair attack on a group of people who for the most part have a very difficult job, provide a valuable service to the public,subject themselves to danger and criticism and generally are well respected by most law abiding citizens..

February 29, 2008

kingpinofdisks,

I am sorry that you were treated so in my name. I wish you peace.

Jan

Jan, I think you really hit on some great points in your previous post, but I'd express a different sentiment than you have. My take on it would be something more along the lines of "I'm going to take what you've said at face value and assume that this was your first encounter with the police, that you offered no physical or verbal resistance, and that there's no 'other side' to this story. That being the case, I'm sorry about what happened to you. No cop should ever do that sort of thing and, if they do, they should be punished. Now, it's time for you to get on with your life."

I say this, reflecting back on the OP's initial post, admitting his "hatred" of LEOs and describing the fact that his acquaintances view him as a "cop-hating psycho." Maybe he was engaging in hyperbole and maybe he's just trying to get a rise out of us, but if one's demonstration of hatred for all law enforcement officers rises to a level where acquaintances question his sanity, the problem no longer lies with those who committed the original act of violence.

When--as is reported to be the case here--an individual directs his hatred toward those who had nothing to do with the original affront, then he becomes the wrongdoer. The apologies should be flowing the other way.

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