5 shot dead in Dekalb, Illinois - when is this crap gonna stop?

[Dances_With_Wiener_Dogs]

Shooting info

 

When is this stuff going to stop? It seems as if the other shootings embolden the gunmen. I just feel sick...for the victims...for their families/friends...but also for the shooter(s) and their families. What vindictiveness has gotten a hold on these young people that they feel they must take others with them? Then, on the other hand I'm pissed off that they are too weak to just kill themselves.

[russell_bynum]

What we need, is more "gun free" zones so that this sort of thing can't happen.

 

 

Oh...wait a minute....

 

 

[steveknapp]

The gunman, whose identity has not been revealed publicly, was not a student at the NIU campus in DeKalb, west of Chicago, but "may have been a student somewhere else."

 

Crazy

[Gary in Aus]

Steve ,

 

this is coming though on our news services now .

 

We had our Port Arthur Massacre and the perpertrator Martyn Bryant is now living the life of a laboratory rat as they try to understand why he would did what he did.

 

I don't know the answers or even what the questions should be .

 

As we re arrange our "modern lives" around operational change {work styles , technology , employment trends etc} do we suitably manage the cultural changes that arise. Lack of security in employment , lack of career paths , lack of influence in events that control their lives , are people more fearful in todays world .

 

Atrocities such as this have been occuring since time began . Does media coverage increase the impact on us by constantly bombarding us with images/information that they consider newsworthy.

 

Did you in the US receive much coverage about the Russian Chess board killer ? Horrific criminal with his prime motivation that it he wanted to take their souls!! We didn't get much via US media but most came from Euro/BBC services.

 

Very sad for those affected and those who will suffer for the rest of their lives.

 

I trust further responders to your post will avoid the cheap shots of gun versus anti gun posturing that often appear.

 

These are peoples loved ones and your fellow citizens , how do you care for them ?

[Bud]

Just last week in Kirkwood, MO a gunman shot up the city council meeting killing 5 including 2 LEO's.

 

Sad indeed.

[Lawman]

What we need, is more "gun free" zones so that this sort of thing can't happen.

 

 

Oh...wait a minute....

 

 

 

[Lets_Play_Two]

Shooting info

 

When is this stuff going to stop? It seems as if the other shootings embolden the gunmen. I just feel sick...for the victims...for their families/friends...but also for the shooter(s) and their families. What vindictiveness has gotten a hold on these young people that they feel they must take others with them? Then, on the other hand I'm pissed off that they are too weak to just kill themselves.

 

Doubly awful for me. DeKalb is my home town and NIU one of my alma maters!

[Les is more]

This is so horrible! My heart breaks for the kind of pain that results in this kind of thing and the searing pain created for those left behind.

[Beemr69]

What we need, is more "gun free" zones so that this sort of thing can't happen.

 

 

Oh...wait a minute....

 

 

 

 

Agreed also , where was it in the church in Colorado the armed woman averted a mass shooting , that shooter supposedly had 1K rounds , she no doubt hosed his plan .

[Les is more]

We've had a surfeit of gun discussions here lately, from every angle. Let's not go there this time, as I seriously doubt that it was the OPs intent.

[Mike]

We've had a surfeit of gun discussions here lately, from every angle. Let's not go there this time, as I seriously doubt that it was the OPs intent.

 

I agree. This is not the time for a gun debate.

[Husker Red]

Very sad indeed.

 

I wish law enforcement and the media would agree to not publicly release the shooters name or photo. The shooter in the Omaha mall incident said he would be FAMOUS now. I think some of these guys imagine "They will be sorry for how they treated me now" or "they will tremble when they see me or hear my name." Not if we never release their info. That is one thing we have the power to strip away from them. I feel that putting the shooters photo up on every news service and showing video from the event only emboldens others crazy folks to try it themselves.

 

My heart breaks for the families and friends of the victims, but I refuse to give the shooter another thought.

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

I think some of these guys imagine "They will be sorry for how they treated me now" or "they will tremble when they see me or hear my name."

 

That's part of their deluded rationale that drives them to perform these obscene deeds, but they're wrong: their names will forever inspire rage and sadness, maybe, but not fear.

[Husker Red]

That's part of their deluded rationale that drives them to perform these obscene deeds, but they're wrong: their names will forever inspire rage and sadness, maybe, but not fear.

True, but by inspiring rage or sadness they still have power over others. I want to remove that power from them. Let them be nothing.

[tallman]

That's part of their deluded rationale that drives them to perform these obscene deeds, but they're wrong: their names will forever inspire rage and sadness, maybe, but not fear.

True, but by inspiring rage or sadness they still have power over others. I want to remove that power from them. Let them be nothing.

 

Could work, if the media would cooperate.

Remember all those people who used to run onto the field during televised athletic events?

No camera time, they stopped.

Latest I read was 7 have died.

Too many times our promising leaders of tomorrow have had this happen to them.

[motorman587]

And I bet the cops that were going to this call were within the speed limit, with or without lights and siren.

[beemerman2k]

Very sad indeed.

 

I wish law enforcement and the media would agree to not publicly release the shooters name or photo. The shooter in the Omaha mall incident said he would be FAMOUS now. I think some of these guys imagine "They will be sorry for how they treated me now" or "they will tremble when they see me or hear my name." Not if we never release their info. That is one thing we have the power to strip away from them. I feel that putting the shooters photo up on every news service and showing video from the event only emboldens others crazy folks to try it themselves.

 

My heart breaks for the families and friends of the victims, but I refuse to give the shooter another thought.

 

I'm with Husker Red on this one, too.

 

What we need, is more "gun free" zones so that this sort of thing can't happen.

 

 

Oh...wait a minute....

 

I don't mean to start or to add to a gun debate, but I have disagreed with Russel Bynum and lawman on many occasions on this board. So given that they have taken a position that I whole-heartedly agree with, I just want to let them know I stand right there with them on this position of the public having the rights, the means, and the power to protect itself.

 

Oh, I forgot the most important point: May the God of peace be with the families so tragically affected by this terrible event. As a parent I cannot imagine the painful prayers going up to heaven this morning. Terrible indeed.

[Aluminum_Butt]

And I bet the cops that were going to this call were within the speed limit, with or without lights and siren.

 

Can't speak to that exactly, but thus far all of the local news reports indicate that the university and local LEO's did everything right. It would appear that they learned a lot (and put a lot in place) from the VA Tech incident. Mechanisms such as emergency broadcast texting worked. LEO's were reportedly on site within 5 minutes of the first 911 call, and had the school locked down within 20 minutes.

 

Thus far, the gunman's name is not being released. I like that...it's keeping the focus where it should be...off of him.

[Twisties]

The name is now released.

 

Personally, I find it quite instructive to learn something of the history and motivations behind such an event. How will we ever answer Steve's question if we can't share basic information about the event?

 

I don't really see how keeping the name private is even possible. Victims, their friends and relatives certainly must know, as well as the perpetrator's circle of associates. We can't just have disappearances you know. There will be civil suits to follow. Hundred's, if not thousands, will need to know that name. Keeping the name private seems completely impractical to me.

 

In any event, I don't know what motivates these people. I would tend to suppose it is more the angst of youth: a complex of insecurity, inability to put events in perspective, inability to see solutions to trivial problems. This angst, superimposed upon a world filled with injustice, unbridled greed and petty mean spiritedness, and overlain by a culture that glorifies violence, a culture that maintains a wild west attitude seems to me to lead to these events.

 

I think if we want to address these things we need to take a hard look at who we are. Not just who those in our immediate neighborhoods, but who all of us are. Then we're going to have to follow that up with some hard choices and tough actions.

 

So far however, I don't see the slightest hint of willingness to take on the issues that need to be resolved. In fact, we're not even willing to take baby steps to end our culture of violence. My perception is that we love it.

 

Jan

[motorman587]

And I bet the cops that were going to this call were within the speed limit, with or without lights and siren.

 

Can't speak to that exactly, but thus far all of the local news reports indicate that the university and local LEO's did everything right. It would appear that they learned a lot (and put a lot in place) from the VA Tech incident. Mechanisms such as emergency broadcast texting worked. LEO's were reportedly on site within 5 minutes of the first 911 call, and had the school locked down within 20 minutes.

 

Thus far, the gunman's name is not being released. I like that...it's keeping the focus where it should be...off of him.

 

 

I was beening sarcastic, I sure the LEOs were going balls to the wall into face of hell, as we always do. My commnet was to the other anti-leo, thread basing post.

 

Our training has changed for these type of incidents.

[Joel]

Very sad indeed.

 

I wish law enforcement and the media would agree to not publicly release the shooters name or photo. The shooter in the Omaha mall incident said he would be FAMOUS now. I think some of these guys imagine "They will be sorry for how they treated me now" or "they will tremble when they see me or hear my name." Not if we never release their info. That is one thing we have the power to strip away from them. I feel that putting the shooters photo up on every news service and showing video from the event only emboldens others crazy folks to try it themselves.

 

My heart breaks for the families and friends of the victims, but I refuse to give the shooter another thought.

 

I'm with Husker Red on this one, too.

 

+2. I wish the media would back off almost entirely. What these shooters do is the ultimate in selfishness and cowardice. They may never get what they deserve, but we certainly shouldn't give them the widespread attention they want.

 

I doubt that this phenomenon has anything to do with more people feeling alienated or disenfranchised than before. There has always been a segment of society that wallows in that mentality. Instead, I think the phenomenon has a lot to do with the mass media, and the sheep that flock to its product, having glorified a particular exit strategy, making it more appealing to some despondent souls. Sensationalized headlines, lots of public conjecture and hand wringing, documentaries from various points of view, conspiracy theories, etc. all continue to shine light on what boils down to an act of selfish cowardice. I wish we could put most of that energy into building stronger families and communities instead.

[smiller]

In fact, we're not even willing to take baby steps to end our culture of violence.

What would some of those be?

[keithb]

When I was in jr. high/high school this kind of shit was handled with fists, now it is handled with knives, guns, or baseball bats. I wish I had the answer.

[Twisties]

In fact, we're not even willing to take baby steps to end our culture of violence.

What would some of those be?

 

In view of Les' comments on this thread, I particularly did not go into that area.

 

I'd just be happy if we could all agree that we do in fact have a culture of violence, and that we would like to end it. It is my belief that we are one of the most violent cultures, maybe even the most violent, the world has ever known. Yet, we perceive ourselves as peaceful, generous and enlightened.

 

Consider:

 

We spend more on our military than the next 16 countries combined, and also consider the kind of reactions one gets to suggestions of ratcheting that down. That is the level of institutionalized violence. That level also includes our taser happy police force (with respect, I understand that as things stand today there is a time and place for a taser, but I'm referring to an attitude in law enforcement that dictates that violence be met with violence, that fails to strive hard enough for non-violent solutions. My goal would law enforcement that views violence as the exception, not the rule). This isn't a baby step, it's substantive, but simply put we have to move beyond seeing violence as a solution to our national and social problems. A baby step at this level would be ending the death penalty and ensuring prisons are humane places of rehabilitation rather places of punishment.

 

Then we have the violence in the media. We can't watch a beautiful couple make love. But want to shoot someone in cold blood or blow them to bits, have at it. What does that say? The media has portrayed violence as part of normal life. I defy you to find ANY movie at any rating level that is devoid of it. It's the reason I watch so few movies. Oh, and lets not even get into "sports".

 

Then there is the level of personal issues. That is the one I was trying to avoid out of respect for our host. I'll leave the most important baby step to your imagination. There are perhaps other aspects we can discuss. I look at the carnage (45,000 deaths, about a million injuries) on our highways, the 15,000 - 16,000 murders per year, the 1,000,000 rapes a year, the uncounted toll of domestic violence. These are not just numbers. Each and every one of these is a life destroyed through violence. But there is a story in these numbers: Their size is truly staggering. There are fewer that 300 million of us, yet we have two million violent crimes a year (and these don't count school yard bullies). One for every 150 of us. Violence truly is a hallmark of our culture.

 

Each of these tragedies is a reflection of a culture that sees violence as easier and more natural than civility and respect. To a large extent this is a reflection of the "me" phenomenon. Whether it is unsafe aggressive driving, shooting someone over a pair of sneakers or a beer, a spouse gone postal, or a youth in throws of desperation, the common thread is a psyche focussed on the self to the exclusion of all else.

 

The fact is, it's this way because that's how we want it. MADD showed us that cultural change is possible. In a mere 30 years drinking and driving has gone from socially acceptable to despised. MADD was successful because society was willing to make that change. There are plenty of groups working to end violence, but they get no traction. I can only conclude that we don't want to end it. We like our violence and we're proud of it. Nothing like having the Blue Angels fly over your 4th of July parade.

 

To answer Steve's question: This will end (or at least become very rare) when civility and maturity replace childishness and violence as the hallmarks of our society. The primary step to achieving this is for a concerted effort at all levels to move away from using violence as a solution.

[David]

Jan, I'm not disagreeing with you just for the fun of it--I don't mean to make light of your thoughts on this matter. But I'm not convinced that we're the most violent culture on earth, or however you phrased it. What we are is the most open cultural from a media standpoint, which tends to spread reports of this.

 

I can think of extremely violent cultures (Mayan indians, whom I lived with for years), Chinese, early America, Russia, early Europe, etc.

 

I'm just wondering if you'd need to examine that premise, first.

[Twisties]

Jan, I'm not disagreeing with you just for the fun of it--I don't mean to make light of your thoughts on this matter. But I'm not convinced that we're the most violent culture on earth, or however you phrased it. What we are is the most open cultural from a media standpoint, which tends to spread reports of this.

 

I can think of extremely violent cultures (Mayan indians, whom I lived with for years), Chinese, early America, Russia, early Europe, etc.

 

I'm just wondering if you'd need to examine that premise, first.

 

Hi David,

 

I thought the Mayans had ritualized violence, but that there is a great deal of controversy as to whether there was much, or any, actual bloodshed. As I understand it their inter-tribal conflicts were very limited by their lack of the wheel, and style of agriculture.

 

Are you saying modern day Maya are highly violent? Anyway, it was not my intent to include historical cultures, nor is it my claim that we are the most violent. My claim is that we are right up there at the top of the list in today's world. Number one, number two or number 5, doesn't matter much to me. My point is we need to be on the other end of the list.

 

But as to your point. I'll say it again: We spend more than the next 16 countries combined on our military, and yet this military is so over used that is is strained to it's breaking point, or near to that point. I find that evidence to be compelling.

 

Anyway, always happy to trade points of view with a civil person such as yourself.

 

Jan

[EffBee]

In fact, we're not even willing to take baby steps to end our culture of violence.

What would some of those be?

 

In view of Les' comments on this thread, I particularly did not go into that area.

 

I'd just be happy if we could all agree that we do in fact have a culture of violence, and that we would like to end it. It is my belief that we are one of the most violent cultures, maybe even the most violent, the world has ever known. Yet, we perceive ourselves as peaceful, generous and enlightened.

 

Consider:

 

We spend more on our military than the next 16 countries combined, and also consider the kind of reactions one gets to suggestions of ratcheting that down. That is the level of institutionalized violence. That level also includes our taser happy police force (with respect, I understand that as things stand today there is a time and place for a taser, but I'm referring to an attitude in law enforcement that dictates that violence be met with violence, that fails to strive hard enough for non-violent solutions. My goal would law enforcement that views violence as the exception, not the rule). This isn't a baby step, it's substantive, but simply put we have to move beyond seeing violence as a solution to our national and social problems. A baby step at this level would be ending the death penalty and ensuring prisons are humane places of rehabilitation rather places of punishment.

 

Then we have the violence in the media. We can't watch a beautiful couple make love. But want to shoot someone in cold blood or blow them to bits, have at it. What does that say? The media has portrayed violence as part of normal life. I defy you to find ANY movie at any rating level that is devoid of it. It's the reason I watch so few movies. Oh, and lets not even get into "sports".

 

Then there is the level of personal issues. That is the one I was trying to avoid out of respect for our host. I'll leave the most important baby step to your imagination. There are perhaps other aspects we can discuss. I look at the carnage (45,000 deaths, about a million injuries) on our highways, the 15,000 - 16,000 murders per year, the 1,000,000 rapes a year, the uncounted toll of domestic violence. These are not just numbers. Each and every one of these is a life destroyed through violence. But there is a story in these numbers: Their size is truly staggering. There are fewer that 300 million of us, yet we have two million violent crimes a year (and these don't count school yard bullies). One for every 150 of us. Violence truly is a hallmark of our culture.

 

Each of these tragedies is a reflection of a culture that sees violence as easier and more natural than civility and respect. To a large extent this is a reflection of the "me" phenomenon. Whether it is unsafe aggressive driving, shooting someone over a pair of sneakers or a beer, a spouse gone postal, or a youth in throws of desperation, the common thread is a psyche focussed on the self to the exclusion of all else.

 

The fact is, it's this way because that's how we want it. MADD showed us that cultural change is possible. In a mere 30 years drinking and driving has gone from socially acceptable to despised. MADD was successful because society was willing to make that change. There are plenty of groups working to end violence, but they get no traction. I can only conclude that we don't want to end it. We like our violence and we're proud of it. Nothing like having the Blue Angels fly over your 4th of July parade.

 

To answer Steve's question: This will end (or at least become very rare) when civility and maturity replace childishness and violence as the hallmarks of our society. The primary step to achieving this is for a concerted effort at all levels to move away from using violence as a solution.

 

If you truly want to respect Les's request by not turning this into a gun thread, try not turning it into any kind of political thread, either. Otherwise, your words ring hollow.

 

This thread is to express our sadness over the losses suffered in DeKalb and in other such events around the U.S. and the world. It is not a teeing-off point for anyone's personal political or sociological agenda, regardless of the perspective.

 

Good heavens, man. The bodies aren't even cold yet, and there are more than a dozen more wounded, some still struggling to live.

 

There's a bandaid atop a cotton ball in the crook of my left arm, where I gave blood this morning at the hospital.

[Mister Tee]

 

EDIT: I just read the above post regarding the purpose of the original post. My apologies if I'm off topic.

 

 

Admin Edit: Since you feel your words were contrary to the wishes of the proprietor, and since you were able to edit your post in order to add the comment above, perhaps that would have been a good time to simply delete the words and replace them with, "text deleted by author."

 

I've deleted them for you, but copied them and have sent them to you in a PM for you to use in a more appropriate thread. I didn't want you to lose what you'd taken the time to write, but please save it for later.

[Twisties]

As you wish.

 

Thank you for donating blood. That's a good idea.

 

See ya,

 

Jan

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

There's a bandaid atop a cotton ball in the crook of my left arm, where I gave blood this morning at the hospital.

 

Thanks for the reminder; I became eligible again earlier this week.

[BruceWA]

The shooter in the Omaha mall incident said he would be FAMOUS now

 

Perhaps some folks have lost the meaning and difference between "famous" and "infamous".

 

These tragedies are completely senseless. My prayers to those impacted by this.

[RFW]

When is this stuff going to stop?

Reminds me of an editorial cartoon I once saw. Uncle Sam is standing there holding a gun to his head. There is a big hole in his head, and he has a totally puzzled look on his face. We says "I wonder what causes THAT???"

[MikeRC]

Before anybody else steps in too quickly ..........

 

I am tired of Canadians, Americans, Europeans and whoever else who think they/we are somehow free of societies errors, crime and violence. How quickly some people forget the uniquely Canadian Ecole Polytechnique and Mayerthorpe tragedies.

 

My condolences to all and anyone involved. I also wish that we could find a solution to these tragedies, but until then all we can do is limp along and send a strong anti-violence message to everone we come into contact with.

 

Michael Cassidy

[Twisties]

The Shooter

[BabyCow]

On Wikipedia

USA - 45 school shootings listed

Canada - 7 school shootings

Rest of the world - 12 school shootings

[leikam]

That's what I'd heard on the news today as well: an otherwise well-adjusted young man who went off his meds and down a violent track. Contrary to what many seem to have assumed, it doesn't appear to be a case of this guy wanting attention or acting out, but of mental illness.

 

I wonder if schools are hardest hit simply because many young people spend a lot of time there and not because higher education as such draws out the wrath of the homicidal.

[velomoto]

On Wikipedia

USA - 45 school shootings listed

Canada - 7 school shootings

Rest of the world - 12 school shootings

On the news this morning they listed four (yes 4) school shooting this week. Seeing how I had only heard of Illinois shooting, I can only assume there is some threshold of deaths before a school shooting becomes "news".

[velomoto]

I wonder if schools are hardest hit simply because many young people spend a lot of time there and not because higher education as such draws out the wrath of the homicidal.

+1 If education created homicidal maniacs we would have seen this problem long ago.

[Joel]

That's what I'd heard on the news today as well: an otherwise well-adjusted young man who went off his meds and down a violent track. Contrary to what many seem to have assumed, it doesn't appear to be a case of this guy wanting attention or acting out, but of mental illness.

 

Mental illness and engaging in attention-getting behaviors or acts of selfish cowardice aren't necessarily mutually exclusive, nor would the former necessarily excuse the latter.

[smiller]

Mental illness and engaging in attention-getting behaviors or acts of selfish cowardice aren't necessarily mutually exclusive, nor would the former necessarily excuse the latter.

Both true, but we don't know if either apply in this case and from what information is so far available it would seem that they do not.

 

That kind of makes it all even more disturbing... there was no way to predict his behavior, and the primary weapon (a shotgun) is not prohibited, nor is there even any proposed legislation to do so. I don't bring that last point up to open a debate, just as a side note to the thought that there may have been no way to prevent the tragedy, and if the act was due purely to unpredictable mental illness perhaps no one to blame. We like to have clear causes and to assess blame, but sometimes these elements don't exist. In all about as tragic and senseless as anything can be.

[steveknapp]

Some weird stuff in that article about him.

 

there was no way to predict his behavior, and the primary weapon (a shotgun) is not prohibited, nor is there even any proposed legislation to do so. I don't bring that last point up to open a debate, just as a side note to the thought that there may have been no way to prevent the tragedy

 

Not clear on that point? Owning the shotgun was legal, he did all the right things in this state including the state police issued FOID needed to purchase both the guns and the ammo. In essence two background checks. Illinois is a pretty strict state in that regard.

 

And as an ex-prison guard going into criminal justice you could almost say he was "in the business" or could have easily made it look as such.

 

There are, as I understand it, laws that forbid shooting people, but also there are laws about loaded weapons on your person and the like. Illinois also has no citizen CCW permit options.

 

Not to sound too freaky, but I do wonder about all the chemicals we use to live these days. In our food, in our medicine.. The human body is pretty complex and the interactions not all unknown. How do you explain so many strange side effects drugs list? You can't.

 

I just had a nasty flu, and my doc offered up a drug to lessen the duration of the flu. Reading more about it, there were some bizarre mental health side effects like increased numbers of people jumping off buildings.

[smiller]

Not clear on that point? Owning the shotgun was legal, he did all the right things in this state including the state police issued FOID needed to purchase both the guns and the ammo. In essence two background checks. Illinois is a pretty strict state in that regard.

Yes, Illinois is a pretty strict state in that regard, yet that was no protection against this incident. Nor were there any predictors in his current mental state, and you can't imprison everyone with a history of mental health issues on the chance that they might become violent. Laws just don't provide any real barrier to these kinds of events.

 

My main point was that I'm really not sure what could be done to prevent another incident sometime in the future, if the circumstances are as unpredictable/unpreventable as this one. That's disturbing, but I don't know the solution.

[steveknapp]

Laws just don't provide any real barrier to these kinds of events.

 

I agree 100%. But that won't stop people from trying, will it?

[EffBee]

I wonder if schools are hardest hit simply because many young people spend a lot of time there and not because higher education as such draws out the wrath of the homicidal.

+1 If education created homicidal maniacs we would have seen this problem long ago.

 

Unfortunately, what I think education provides is a daily, target-rich environment, with few avenues of escape, and victims (students) who are sure to draw the attention of the media.

[4wheeldog]

I wonder if schools are hardest hit simply because many young people spend a lot of time there and not because higher education as such draws out the wrath of the homicidal.

+1 If education created homicidal maniacs we would have seen this problem long ago.

 

Unfortunately, what I think education provides is a daily, target-rich environment, with few avenues of escape, and victims (students) who are sure to draw the attention of the media.

 

Also, young adulthood is the time in life when mental illness comes to the fore. Most schizophrenics start exhibiting symptoms in late teens/early twenties. And this is also the time that one has the freedom to decide for themself whether they are going to take their meds or not.

This young man apparently was struggling along dampened by drugs. He was a washout for an unrevealed cause from the military. Drugs kept him under control......Until he made the decision not to take them.

[4wheeldog]

I just had a nasty flu, and my doc offered up a drug to lessen the duration of the flu. Reading more about it, there were some bizarre mental health side effects like increased numbers of people jumping off buildings.

 

+1 on the odd drug effects.

A few years ago, my MD put me on one of the popular anti-cholesterol meds. After about 3 weeks, I found myself, in a very calm state of mind, planning a homicide on the clerk behind the counter at the local Radio Shack. He would never have known what hit him. He was an idiot and a jerk, but that isn't uncommon at Radio Shack. What stopped me was the thought that I had never done this before, I wonder what changed.

It was then that it occured to me that I was on new meds. I excused myself, drove home carefully, informed my wife of my mental state, called in to work that I was going to be off the rest of the week, (My boss was on my mental list.......Did I mention I had a list?), and made an appointment with my MD. Turns out that this particular side effect had been noted in the early testing, but was too rare to make the final warning list.

If Lovastatin can cause an even tempered, non violent 50 year old to become a homicidal maniac, what do real brain effecting drugs do?

[Shaman97]

Unfortunately, what I think education provides is a daily, target-rich environment, with few avenues of escape, and victims (students) who are sure to draw the attention of the media.

 

And that's just speaking about the teachers...

[Ken H.]

I wish law enforcement and the media would agree to not publicly release the shooters name or photo. The shooter in the Omaha mall incident said he would be FAMOUS now. I think some of these guys imagine "They will be sorry for how they treated me now" or "they will tremble when they see me or hear my name." Not if we never release their info. That is one thing we have the power to strip away from them. I feel that putting the shooters photo up on every news service and showing video from the event only emboldens others crazy folks to try it themselves.

I don't know if this article answers that question, but it does at least attempt to consider it - http://www.kansascity.com/637/story/492274.html

[Joel]

I wish law enforcement and the media would agree to not publicly release the shooters name or photo. The shooter in the Omaha mall incident said he would be FAMOUS now. I think some of these guys imagine "They will be sorry for how they treated me now" or "they will tremble when they see me or hear my name." Not if we never release their info. That is one thing we have the power to strip away from them. I feel that putting the shooters photo up on every news service and showing video from the event only emboldens others crazy folks to try it themselves.

I don't know if this article answers that question, but it does at least attempt to consider it - http://www.kansascity.com/637/story/492274.html

 

Interesting stuff there. To the point about the media coverage -- just because they can, doesn't mean they should.

 

Their shoot-’em-up endings become more likely when their mental crises overlap media coverage of some other lost soul’s carnage, Dietz said.

 

That’s why they seem to come in bunches, and he said news coverage makes things worse. Dietz argues that electronic media ought to limit their coverage to the region of the crime and to the facts of the crime. Newspapers and magazines, he said, make more killings more likely when they saturate their pages in the aftermath with emotional retelling of the deed.

 

<snip>

 

The inevitable coverage — more pronounced the more outrageous the killing — will also be seen by people susceptible to taking the worst lessons from an attack.

 

“There is a contagion effect,” said James Alan Fox, a criminologist at Northeastern University and the author of The Will to Kill. “They identify with the power of the perpetrator rather than the pain of the victim.”

[Twisties]

I wonder if schools are hardest hit simply because many young people spend a lot of time there and not because higher education as such draws out the wrath of the homicidal.

+1 If education created homicidal maniacs we would have seen this problem long ago.

 

Unfortunately, what I think education provides is a daily, target-rich environment, with few avenues of escape, and victims (students) who are sure to draw the attention of the media.

 

I don't know if it is even the case that most of these events occur in schools.

I was poking around trying to get some statistics like what Baby Cow presented, but broader, to include non-school settings. Seems to be a complicated issue. First, I suppose to be fair, we need to exclude terrorism and government sponsored events, so we are limited to individuals acting without these connections or intents. Then, there are definitional issues: Serial killers, spree killers, and simple mass murderers. Are we talking about shooting cases only, or any means (bomb)? What about Tim McViegh, in or out? In any event I didn't find a succinct list, but it's clear this sort of thing has been going on in more than schools. Here in Utah we just marked the anniversary of last year's Trolley Square Massacre. Trolley is a shopping mall. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned a civic function. There was a church case last year. If anyone can sort out the stats and tell us what percent of these things are school related I'd be interested to see that.

 

I also read that there is no profile for the shooter in these sorts of things, and no profile for their motivations.