Group Riding "non-riding" etiquette?

[KMG_365]

I've had the idea for this post rolling around in my head and taking shape for a few months now and I'd like to get some more info from this great membership:

 

Though I have ridden for years since I was a kid, I am actually fairly new (<3 years) to Sport Touring and especially Sport Touring in a "group riding" setting. I've found some WONDERFUL threads on the actual mechanics of "riding" while group riding and how to make it go smoother, safer, more efficient, etc. Some of those threads are:

 

HERE.

 

HERE.

 

HERE.

 

HERE.

 

And of course, required reading for anyone who wants to Ride Well in a Group Ride Situation--whether or not they strictly adhere to every facet: The Pace!

 

But my purpose for this post is more about the "non-riding" portion of the group riding experience, specifically, some of the "conventions" of participating in a group ride or what might be considered proper "etiquette" or "how to be a good participant in a group ride and not pi$$ off your riding partners too much"!

 

I found that I really, really enjoy riding with some of the members here, but I learned some "etiquette" lessons the hard way (usually embarassingly), and since in my ignorance, I simply had no idea what was expected, I would have really appreciated a thread like this one to learn from.

 

For instance: Showing up for a ride gassed up. and the "riding" related one: When meeting up or travelling with bikes of different capacities--everybody gasses up together (so you're not the one who has to stop early next time). This also means that when you arrive somewhere the evening before taking off early in the morning (like at someone's house), gas up the bike before you arrive--you won't get around to it later--especially if you're having a drink or two and relaxing (DAMHIK! ). Yes, I learned this one the hard way and it even took me more than a few times. I apologise to, and thank those who waited for me to get this one down. It makes it so much easier for the group to get on down the road in an efficient manner and prevents hard feelings when the stifled anticipation of others to get going turns sour from having to wait.

 

I'm sure there are many others like this I am unaware of, and some relatively minor ones that I'm not sure of. For instance: I noticed when shaking hands with some riders and especially some of my LEO friends, they always make a point of removing their gloves. I noticed this in Europe as well (a hold over from the days of knights and chivalry, with a relationship to fencing, still), and wondered if anyone else has noticed this phenomenon? I guess most Americans might just look at this as some sort of quaint, antiquated old-world custom like bringing the lady of the house flowers when you come for a visit (a "Mitbringsel", in German).

 

Another is being able to go from stopped, off the bike and relaxing to, once the decision has been arrived at to move on, getting on the road in a fairly short period of time. I used to spend way too much time futzing with my gear, plugs, wiring, tankbag, gloves, shield, etc. and found that I was routinely the one everyone else was waiting for--but at least they had the decency to wait for me! I've had some really great rides with folks here (some Iron Butt, or very sporting rides), and some of whom I'd never ridden with before. What made the really good ones stand out was an easygoing lighthearted manner, an understanding of good group riding etiquette and techniques, and a patience for those who are still learning--like me!

 

I've found that GMRS/FRS makes the "mechanics" of getting down the road efficiently SO much easier, and it's really easy to get spoiled! It doesn't really qualify as an etiquette item, since it would not "offend" anyone's sensibilities, but it sure takes group riding to a whole different level!

 

What are your ideas?

 

[Edit: fixed long links. Geez. It's hard to find a good moderator these days. ]

[David]

I think you've pretty well covered some big ones. Another is being sensitive to how big a group it's going to be if you join it. Before inviting yourself, recognize what the organizer is looking for in the ride. Sporty? Stopping to take lots of pictures? Really small? All it takes is to go up to the person organizing the ride and ask the right question. If you say, "Can I ride with you guys?" it's hard to say no. But if you say, "How many riders were you looking for" or "What sort of ride are you planning?" it's easier for them to stay true to the mission without creating some real awkwardness. The more I ride, the less I enjoy groups beyond four or five. It's just too much work, and introduces too many variables that take a chunk of the fun (and safety) out of it.

 

Now I know you were concentrating on non-ride type suggestions, but in the Christmas spirit I feel compelled to mention the things that bother me the most on group rides.

 

First, following me too closely. I want lots of room to screw up, brake heavily before turn-in, and generally not be distracted. Want a feel for how close I think you should be? Look at how closely I'm following and multiply by 1.5-2.0.

 

Second, being completely, freakin' unaware of the person you are holding up and not waving them around. If there's someone who wants to go faster than you, by all means let them run at their pace, not yours.

 

The longer the ride that day, or the greater the number of days you'll be together on a trip, the more important it is for the group to be small and the riding partners to be compatible. This is not like moving into a new house where the more the merrier--it's a death defying sport. Choose those you'll go into battle with carefully.

 

(This is a great thread idea. I've head to learn these things the hard way, too. Before I got my RT in 2000, I'd never ridden with someone else in my life. Not even once, in years and years of riding.)

[SMM]

Hopefully this ain't too far off topic as it was about the non riding part. But one of the absolute top things is to

convey to everyone that they are responsible for "riding their own ride". Under no circumstances should it ever be

possible for a newcomer (or other) to be under the mistaken impression that the group is counting on them "keeping up". I cannot tell you how shocked, scared and blown away i was when a friend of mine, who just happened to be on a Harley , told me at the first stop in the twisties that "I was having a hard time keeping up with you". Imagine if he told me that from his hospital bed.

 

Have a place agreed where you will all stop to accomodate this.

Ride your own ride, that's # 1. # 2 is hand signal conventions #3 Dont be afraid to bruise an ego or two re: following too close The # of us who get hurt from following too close, or more likely, being followed too close is a totally unecessary one.

 

Anyway, given the topic, I am sure there will me many more comments along a similar vein....

[Jim VonBaden]

Good thread!

 

My little contribution is to make sure everyone knows all of the planned stops, and that the group will wait for stragglers at each planned stop. That ensures the opportunity for everyone to ride their own ride.

 

Jim

 

PS Is it just me, or are the links not working?

[ericfoerster]

I really like to ride with just two or three folks I really know well (or by myself). Folks that have a similar riding style and objectives for the day. I usually know if I "click" with other riders in just a few miles.

For the most part when groups get over three to four riders in them someone is going to "stress" the others.

 

Get a map, plan a route, go ride and have fun. After the ride then hang with the group. Thats why we have group meals and gatherings

 

The best thing about it, is that you can make your own rules and go and do what you want. No feelings are hurt at the end of the day and you usually make it home in one piece.

 

(just another point of view)

[Les is more]

Jim,

 

The links work. It's just you. Only you. You alone. Isolated. Bereft of all company. Abandoned. No one to talk to. How sad.

 

 

 

[Jim VonBaden]

Jim,

 

The links work. It's just you. Only you. You alone. Isolated. Bereft of all company. Abandoned. No one to talk to. How sad.

 

 

 

 

D@mn, still not a part of the clique!

 

Jim

 

PS Or maybe I am as they are suddenly working!

[flat_twin]

I really like to ride with just two or three folks I really know well (or by myself). Folks that have a similar riding style and objectives for the day. I usually know if I "click" with other riders in just a few miles.

For the most part when groups get over three to four riders in them someone is going to "stress" the others.

 

Get a map, plan a route, go ride and have fun. After the ride then hang with the group. Thats why we have group meals and gatherings

 

The best thing about it, is that you can make your own rules and go and do what you want. No feelings are hurt at the end of the day and you usually make it home in one piece.

 

(just another point of view)

 

I agree with every point you made Eric. Well said. Some people have a hard time riding their own ride, riding defensively, not make assumptions based on what the rider in front of them did when riding in large groups.

[KMG_365]

David,

 

Thnaks for "fixing" the long links, though they looked fine to me after I posted them. Must be an OS9 thing like the picture posting problems.

 

Also, thanks for being the first to hijack the thread into yet another "riding" in Group Rides thread like the five links you "fixed" for me!

 

 

 

Yes, the "pick your group" before your ride concept is another very good one! Not only pick the size of the group, but also the speed of the group. If you know you are a slow rider (or just think you are), it would be very polite to make sure the "fast" group you want to join does not mind or would not feel hampered by your presence. I've been there too. I rode my first-ever SportTouring group ride on my brand-new RT with Sean and a few others on a very misty day two-up with Leslie up Palomar mtn. Maynard was only a month or so old and I was slow as all get out (especially after the wet cattle guard in the corner incident! Hmmm, maybe that's why Leslie was so "inspired" to get her own handlebars! ). I was really struck by the courtesy shown us newbies by the other riders who rode their own ride, but someone always waited for us at the turns, though I'm sure they would've had more fun without the ballast. As a result, I'm always conscious of extending that same courtesy to newbies, and when they wish to come along, unless I really have a raging desire to "Hoon it up", I just settle into a different mind-set for the fun of the ride. And as long as we got the concept of "ride your own ride" pounded into everybody as well as the general outline of the ride, I've been very fortunate so far! Also, a lot of former newbies I've ridden with are now passing the torch!

 

The length of the ride, or extended trip, or intensity of the endurance required is also an important factor in picking your companions carefully. I find certain "markers" helpful in sizing up potential riding parners for touring trips, like the Iron Butt Assoc frame on the bike is very helpful for me. It tells me immediately that the other person knows about the kind of riding I've got in mind. GMRS/FRS is another. That is another thing that this DB is great for. Someone's posting history here gives me a great idea of what to expect on the ride.

 

I clearly remember talking to Steve Carr at the "In Search Of . . . Fish!" ride a while back about our planned BBG1500 and Norman Yang "cmcyy" coming up to us and asking if he could join us. I had only met Norman once at Sean Daly's Tech Daze, but never ridden with him and he hardly ever posts here. David's quote comes to mind: "Choose those you'll go into battle with carefully." I was instantly nervous and though I didn't know Norman that well, he was very nice and seemed very earnest. I told him one needed to have done a SS1000 first to qualify (thinking that would be an easy out so as not to hurt his feelings). "Oh, I know. I've done that" Hmmmm, "Okay, great. So what was your time ?" (thinking if he had just snuck it in in under the required 24 he might not be able to make the transition to the pace of the BBG) "I did mine in 14 hours (or was it 16, Norman?)" (Leslie and I had taken 18 hours to do ours! ) "Okay, welcome to the team!" He ended up kicking my butt and I was the total weak-link! That guy rides the snot out of that bike and he can't even get both tip-toes down at the same time! It was one of the most enjoyable "gambles" I've ever taken and we had a great time! Point is that Norman knew going in what he was capable of and that he was up to the Ride and that is a great example of good etiquette!

 

I had another similar experience with Pepo ("bikist") on the way to Cody for the Pre-run. I had only ridden with him on one other day ride and again, a really nice guy, but I was very limited on time and needed to blast up there, check it out and blast back. I had an ABSOLUTELY great trip out! (and I hope he did as well) He knew what the ride was going to look like and knew it would work before he piped up. (Thanks again, Pepo! )

 

As far as avoiding riding in larger groups and the tendancy for them to get unruly, I think that really depends on the riders involved. Though the probability of an incompatibility or a problem does increase with the size of the group, I do not think it is a given. I've been in some groups of 8-10 good riders that have been an absolute blast! For example, I think most of the folks who ride long distances to the gatherings are a fairly safe bet! The wild ride of six RT's chasing AZAl's K-RS pulling a trailer, from Torrey to the Un-III with a few folks I'd never ridden with was a another that will light me up for years to come!

 

Another one would be to make sure everyone is on the same page as far as the main facts of the ride beforehand--and if you don't know--ask! Everyone should have at least a rough idea of where we're going and by what route, where rest stops might be and places to re-group if we get separated. Leslie and I got hopelessly left behind on a group ride up on Angeles Crest (her first group ride, on her R1200-Cruiser, in LA) and we had no idea where we were or where the rest of the group had gone. If it weren't for a very patient Sagerider riding sweep, the FRS (which I had just brought on a whim) and Sagerider's steering the group from the rear with his mobile broadcasting station and GPS (as opposed to sweeping the group from the front! ), we would still be wandering around up there. We had no clue what was going on, but we didn't say anything for fear of looking stooopid. Okay, lesson learned there too!

[David]

Also, thanks for being the first to hijack the thread into yet another "riding" in Group Rides thread like the five links you "fixed" for me!

 

No problem. It took me so long to fix your post that I didn't have time to read them and then realize I was taking us over familiar ground!

 

Seriously, sorry about that. Back to non-riding etiquette issues.

[steve.foote]

What an excellent subject, Jamie.

 

Obviously, being prepared and working conciously to not hold up the group are excellent advice. I also like smaller groups of riders. Even if a lot of riders are gathered to go to the same destination, it's nice to break down into groups of 4-5 and leave at stagered intervals.

 

I would like to add to the discussion, riding formations. Many riders coming over from the crusier world are used to riding in tight stagger formations. When sport touring, it's best to spread out and use the whole lane. Same for long distance touring. Stagger formations are fine in town, but open it up once on the hiway.

 

Some of the best rides I've been on have had the riders 100+ yards apart. Still a group, but each rider riding his own ride. One memorable trip was returning from Enterprise Alabama after Beer, Beemers & Brats II last fall. Chris Kinney, Marty Hill and I departed north through back country. The pace was excellent and we put enough distance between us to enable each of us to slip into the "zone."

 

And finally, and I can't say enough about this, ride your own ride. If you are not as experienced as the rider in front of you, let him go! They will always wait for you at the next stop. Don't get hurt because of pride. Riding beyond your ability can not only put a damper on your day, but it also effects everyone who is riding with you.

 

Just trust me on that last one.

[Haynes]

This topic is a good one to revisit regularly. I often ride in a large group with my local club and I can predict the general beahviour of all the others. There are set protocols which are outlined to everyone before departure.

 

Riding with others really shows me how ell managed my own club's group rides are.

[steve.foote]

Oops, maybe I need to go back for some adult continuing education. Non-riding, Steve, non-riding etiquette.

 

Ok, here is one redeeming point. Always make sure whomever is putting together a ride doesn't get stiffed with the bill. If they order pizza or drinks, chip in. And, as has been mentioned in the techdaze posts of this nature, if you are staying at someones home, make sure the spouse understands your profound thanks for putting up with you.

[Couchrocket]

Not sure if this fits the etiquette category . . .

And, since I've not ridden with a "group" from our midst yet I feel "free-er" to comment....

 

One of the things that makes me uncomfortable when I meet up for a group ride (whether large or very small) is that there is always someone (sometimes lots of someone's) that I've not met. And I usually notice others looking at their boots, etc. too. I introduce myself to those that I can, but I've always wished the ride leader would introduce him/herself and have a very quick round-robin introductions. Not biographies, but at least enough to be able to call someone by their first name on breaks. If the group leader also comments on the intent of the ride, pace, etc., it makes it a whole lot easier to know what to expect, and sort of "where to put yourself" in the line up based on skills, etc.

 

Jamie, I know how you felt... I made all those same sort of mistakes early on too, so thanks for this thread! Wish I had read one just like this before I ever took my first group trip.

[KMG_365]

Scott,

 

Yes, the topic of "How to Lead a Successful Group Ride" almost warrants its own thread!

 

I also agree that a lot of us "Beemer Geeks" are probably on BMW's rather than HD's because we don't just follow the crowds. As a result, I believe I've found a higher number of sort of "socially shy" folks who show up at gatherings and hold back thinking a lot of us are "clique-ish". I think that is merely because the DB has grown hugely in the last few years, and some of us have known each other for a while or ridden together before. This can be exacerbated by the fact that many of us live in different states or parts of the country and only get to see each other a few times a year. It is for that reason that I try to make a concerted effort to introduce myself to any new faces I see at gatherings, and don't shy away from riding with, or even leading a group of newbies--especially on roads I'm familiar with--like Torrey for example. In so doing, I've gotten to know some very nice folks, some of whom have since become very good friends! And for that, I'll always remember--and credit--the generosity of those who did the same for me in the last few years. Leslie and I felt like complete newbie-outsiders at Gunnison (Leslie especially), as I didn't even have an RT yet and we trailered an R1200 Cruiser to an RT rally, but many folks were very kind to us and made us feel at home at a very low point in our lives, and for that I'll always be grateful!

 

So, another great "non-riding" Group Riding etiquette lesson: don't be shy to introduce yourself if you're a newbie (we really don't bite, and those of us who do have had all of our shots! ), and as a veteran make the newbies feel welcome, and you might make a friend for life!

 

Also, for those organizing rides or gatherings where many folks or a few newbies may show up--nametags are a KILLER idea! I know it really helped at all the larger gatherings we've been to since Gunnison--especially when we were relative newbies--to be able to put a face with an on-line persona--some of whom we've known for months or even years from reading the DB. It really helps to break the ice and give you some common ground from which to start a conversation. Particularly with "Handles" as well as names, it really helps to keep folks straight.

[Paul Mihalka]

May be one more simple thing: As often there are different bikes in a group, (like R11xxRT and K1200RS) the "leader" should find out which is the bike with the shortest gas range, what is it's COMFORTABLE range, and stop for gas accordingly. At that point EVERYBODY fills up.

[Voodoo]

The most important "non-riding" thing about group rides for me has always been determining what "kind" of ride it is before hand. Are we meandering? Are we stopping to take pictures? Do we have to be somewhere at a certain time? Are we riding hard? Are we riding real hard?

 

Knowing before you start that everyone is on the same page, really makes or breaks the ride. That doesn't mean that you can't change theme several times as long as the communication is there, but everyone needs to know the deal so there are no surprises.

 

The second most important thing is knowing who's turn it is to buy the beers at the end of the day.

[Jim Moore]

I rode my first-ever SportTouring group ride on my brand-new RT with Sean and a few others on a very misty day two-up with Leslie up Palomar mtn.

Hey Jamie-

 

Was that the day you slid a foot sideways on the cattle grate? I almost crapped my pants when I saw that!

[KMG_365]

I rode my first-ever SportTouring group ride on my brand-new RT with Sean and a few others on a very misty day two-up with Leslie up Palomar mtn.

Hey Jamie-

 

Was that the day you slid a foot sideways on the cattle grate? I almost crapped my pants when I saw that!

Was it only a foot? Leslie swears it was more!!

 

Yeah, I was hoping nobody who witnessed that brain-fart would chime in on this thread. Oh well, my cover and reputation are good and blown now, thanks a lot!!

 

Oh, and BTW, where are you now? Your sig still says Dry Town. Do I have to revoke your membership in favor of a "Conch Town Republic" one? Or maybe you can hook up with "No Socks" and make a real and proper "Crew"!

 

We miss riding with you already!

[leikam]

I'd not thought of it until you mentioned it, but I do remove my gloves before shaking hands and expect others to do so as well. It's not antiquated at all. It makes the handshake personal. I guess it falls into the same "good manners" category as thanking the leader or organizer of a ride for putting it together.

 

One thing that does bother me on group rides is when a gas stop turns into a social hour. If we're in the middle of a ride and need to stop for gas, I want to get back on the road as soon as practical rather than take it as an opportunity to visit. I'm sure this is a personal issue for me and a matter of setting appropriate expectations.

 

Another bit of non-riding bike etiquette is that I expect people to refrain from touching another person's bike without their express permission. It's expected that we'll stand around idly and talk bikes; looking is fine, but if someone touches my bike before asking, that's asking for hard feelings or worse.

 

Another I suppose would be how and where to park your bike: close to the others and ideally in a way that doesn't box anybody in.

 

I guess some of this blurs with just common sense.

[Rich_O]

Was that the day you slid a foot sideways on the cattle grate? I almost crapped my pants when I saw that!

 

Yeah, I was hoping nobody who witnessed that brain-fart would chime in on this thread. Oh well, my cover and reputation are good and blown now, thanks a lot!!

 

Awright! I have a good mental picture of this...a picture that will stay with me forever....the cattle grate, the pants crapping AND the brain fart. WHOOHOO..

[Erick]

Why are the best threads always started when the Old World is sleeping?

 

Anyway, Great advice from everyone.

Just one little thing I missed so far: what about breaking up when the ride is over? What if a couple of group riders want to veer off from the planned ride towards the final destination because that allows them to get home before darkness?

 

I haven't participated in may group rides yet. Just a few one day rides with Miriam, Erik and Francois. We always discussed where we were going a couple of days before the ride. Then we briefly discussed the ride itself before taking off. And during one of the coffee breaks, we discussed what the final stop would be in the afternoon (for more coffee and a snack) and how we would proceed from there. Usually something like this happens then:

 

"OK, here we are in <town-A>. It's a ninety minutes ride back to Amsterdam. We are going to ride straight into town from the slab. What about you?"

"In that case, I think I can stay with you until Exit-4 and take the secondary road home from there."

"Sounds great. We're not going to stop there anymore, are we?"

"Nope. Let's just wave and exchange an e-mail or two later tonight."

 

Now, this has always worked just fine. After drinking that last coffee and putting the gear back on, we shake hands (no gloves!) and then mount the bike for that final stretch.

 

I believe it's important to make sure that everybody knows how the ride is going to end. Do you expect all participants to stay and arrive at the final destination? Do you allow riders to veer off? Are you going to stop or is it just a wave?

[Erick]

Please, forgive my ignorance.

What is:

> GMRS/FRS

??

[kzz]

Please, forgive my ignorance.

What is:

> GMRS/FRS

??

 

Family Radio Service, I think. We call it PMR (Personal Mobile Radio) in Europe. I have no idea what GMRS stands for.

[kzz]

Great thread!

 

Very important ideas have been mentionned here. I'd just like to add few thoughts. If we ride in bigger (>10) groups we always lock the crossroads to keep the group together. The leader, the lockers and the group closing rider wear reflective vest to make them easier to recognize by the traffic and by the rest of the group. The lockers even use their warning flashers and high beams if neccessary. All of us have radio (PMR ) to keep in touch. We have successfully managed even quite big (>100 bikes!) groups in this manner. I've found we get the patience and the respect from the cars.

[Erick]

[...] If we ride in bigger (>10) groups we always lock the crossroads to keep the group together.

Is it legal in your country to 'lock' cross-roads that way? Do you need any kind of permit for that?

What if a car from such cross-road doesn't want to wait, takes off despite presence of the 'locker' and - according pending traffic laws - has right of way?

[David]

Another I suppose would be how and where to park your bike: close to the others and ideally in a way that doesn't box anybody in.

 

...and not so close that if it's parked incompetently and as a result comes to a noisy stop on its side, it won't take out my bike, too!

[Couchrocket]

So, another great "non-riding" Group Riding etiquette lesson: don't be shy to introduce yourself if you're a newbie (we really don't bite, and those of us who do have had all of our shots!

 

Roger that! The funny thing about my description in the post above is that "we're all sort of feeling that way" and when someone takes the initiative to break the ice, it melts very quickly!

 

Also, re what David said above... bike parking is almost an art. Close enough to "look like a group," far enough so that any "one" person can get on their bike a go if they need/want to... and FOR SURE not so close as to take my bike out in the event of a tip over somewhere along the line!

[KMG_365]

Wow,

 

Great stuff so far! I knew I'd learn even more about this subject from you folks.

 

Re: the touching the bike thing . . . man, that get's my goat! It seemed to me that you could always tell a non-rider by them just going up and jumping on my bike! Aaaaahhhh! What the he!! are you doing??!! I thought it was common sense as well, but a lot of what some might think of as "common sense" actually falls more in the field of etiquette, since the same assumptions are not always made across groups of people of what constitutes "proper" or at least "expected" behavior.

 

Yeah, parking . . . that's another bugaboo. It can really be a serious breach of etiquette to drop your bike into someone else's brand new ride (or old beloved ride) and with RT's especially that can add up to a lot of coin really fast. I've seen it happen numerous times (especially at Tech Dazes) but I'm amazed at the way everyone handled what could have been a much more traumatic situation. But being VERY careful when parking bikes in a limited space can not be emphasized enough. Very good point.

 

I don't think in CA we can "lock out" intersections without a permit, and then usually it is the LEO's who do it. That is usually for very large, parade-type groups and I have VERY little interest in those types of groups, since here that usually means I can't hear myself think with all the straight-pipe, noisy "life-saving" going on. Perhaps some of the LEO's could contribute their local regulations on that point.

 

Oh, and Erick, sorry about not waking you up when I started the thread. If you'd PM we your home phone number, I'll be sure to call you when I get another good idea. And don't worry, my good ideas only come around once every couple of years or so! Some would argue that I'm still waiting for my first one . . . .

 

FRS is Family Radio Service (limited to 0.5Watts and a fixed antenna, no license required), GRMS is General Mobile Radio Service and can go up to 50Watts, can use aux antennas (to increase the range) and a USD$75.00 license is required (though most people don't even read the requirements that come with the packaging and they are now so cheap, there is waaaay too much "chatter" on them as well as FRS).

[rrrich]

Ok, gang...here's a group etiquette question...from the other side of group riding.

 

Say you and maybe a friend or two are "pacing" (great article btw, thanks) through the twisties and come up the backside of a gaggle of HD's out for a club cruise. They're SERIOUSLY underperforming but the roads is, delightfully, curvacious and you have short sightlines...not enough to pass the gaggle intact.

 

Laura's written about her experience with passing or biking bretheren, how do you handle that?

[Erick]

[...]HD's out for a club cruise. They're SERIOUSLY underperforming but the roads is, delightfully, curvacious and you have short sightlines...not enough to pass the gaggle intact.

Well, I just read, in this thread: "GRMS is General Mobile Radio Service and can go up to 50Watts, can use aux antennas (to increase the range) and a USD$75.00 license is required (though most people don't even read the requirements that come with the packaging and they are now so cheap, there is waaaay too much chatter on them as well as FRS)."

 

So, in your neck o' the woods, it's easy. Do what the ship captains on the river Rhine do: grab your communication device, talk to the guy(s) you want to overtake, ask if they're kind enough to let you through, and wish them a pleasant ride!

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Rrich,

Guess it depends on your definition of club. Just a bunch of guys on HD's? Wait a bit to see if they will let you through and if not, well, sometimes I'll pass, sometimes not.

 

I tend to hesitate around those who are flying some form of colors. These people can be unpredictable in the extreme and are easily "offended". Best to just take a smoke break.

 

In fact, that applies to all groups. Even at the level of riding exhibited by the members of this board, there are some folks who get a bit prickly about how and when they are passed. Most here will sense you wanting to get by and make an allowance or gesture to allow such.

 

YRMV

 

Ed

[santaferider]

since I like to connect the pleasure of riding with photography, and stopping for a picnic at a breathtaking view or under some copious trees by running water, I don't think I qualify to ride in groups. I also just like to put some toiletries and overnight clothing in my saddlebags and depart with a general direction like N or S or W.

 

But I love the apres-ride camaraderie, so I always try to lodge in hotels where I see other bikes.

 

This is the extent of my meager contribution to this interesting thread

[KMG_365]

Ok, gang...here's a group etiquette question...from the other side of group riding.

 

Say you and maybe a friend or two are "pacing" (great article btw, thanks) through the twisties and come up the backside of a gaggle of HD's out for a club cruise. They're SERIOUSLY underperforming but the roads is, delightfully, curvacious and you have short sightlines...not enough to pass the gaggle intact.

 

Laura's written about her experience with passing or biking bretheren, how do you handle that?

rrich,

 

How about starting another thread on this other topic and save this one for its intended purpose. It is too easy for the topic to get drug off-course (see how easily it happens?), and I'm learning a lot as are others. Your question is a very good one and deserves its own discussion.

 

 

Oh, and Erick: I assume you were being humorous?

 

(Packs of cruiser riders with FRS radios! LOL!!! )

[Erick]

Oh, and Erick: I assume you were being humorous?

(Packs of cruiser riders with FRS radios! LOL!!! )

I was trying to, yes. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

 

To be serious within this thread, then: I've got another thingy that hasn't been adressed, yet.

The day before the group ride, I'm washing (and sometimes polishing) my bike. I really don't want to be the only person in the group whose bike looks dirty or not taken care of. Also, I'm checking air pressure, the lights, the basic stuff.

I suppose you guys do the same, huh?

[KMG_365]

To be serious within this thread, then: I've got another thingy that hasn't been adressed, yet.

The day before the group ride, I'm washing (and sometimes polishing) my bike. I really don't want to be the only person in the group whose bike looks dirty or not taken care of. Also, I'm checking air pressure, the lights, the basic stuff.

I suppose you guys do the same, huh?

ROTFLMAO!!! Stop it, Erick! You're killing me! You've obviously never ridden with Russell! (Though I won't be casting any stones from my silicon villa . . . . )

[Rich_O]

(Packs of cruiser riders with FRS radios! LOL!!! )

 

Really...like...hullo....hullo....ok, don't all answer at once....hullo.

 

Ok, back to you, chief. Not experienced enough to know, but learning a lot here. I haven't been on a group ride long enough to need a gas break, let alone meals or hotel.

[Scarecrow]

...And finally, and I can't say enough about this, ride your own ride. If you are not as experienced as the rider in front of you, let him go! ...

 

I learned that one the hard way. When I first started riding, I went on a ride with 2 other guys. They were both riding with passengers and even so, they both could still outride me to a ridiculous degree. I tried keeping up with them, not wanting to slow them down toooo much. Short story: they made the sudden left turn, I went straight. Straight turned out to be a dirt road with barbed wire just in front of where I finally stopped. After that I rode slow and told them I'd just meet them at the end of the day.

 

It's one of the reasons I still don't do much group riding. I know I'm slow; I don't want other people waiting for me or for me to feel pressured to riding faster than I can. the last time I rode with anyone was Cory (strongbird) and Stan Walker going to a TechDaze in Placerville. Slab riding up to Placerville, then a small road. On that small road, I looked up and Cory was out of sight by the second turn. That was OK, I just plodded along and Cory waited for me when he got to the last section of road.

[Couchrocket]

or not taken care of

This is a good point though... I think. Doing a thorough "pre-flight" on the bike regarding condition, tires, safety items, etc., seems like part of any group participant's responsibility to the overall fun, safety, and viability of the ride. Yes? I've been on at least one ride with a mixed group of riders / bikes, where a fellow had no business going anywhere on the bike he was on. There are enough things that can happen to anyone, once underway, w/o having someone start out with a bike that is likely to drag the group down, be a safety hazard, or some such.

 

This is probably a "moo point" ( cow's opinion, nobody cares! ) with this group for the most part, given the level of bike concern etc. normally expressed -- but it sure isn't necessarily the norm with other mixed groups, IMO.

[Paul Mihalka]

I usually start from home with a fairly clean bike. May be one week of commuter bugs. On the road, the windshield gets a cleaning if I can't see the road ahead of me. The rest of the dirt stays on the bike until home, even if it is a 8K mile trip. Tire wear, pressure, lights, etc. definitely! I remember too many cases when people arriving at a meeting place, may be two days from home, had threads showing through the rubber. You know who you are!

[rrrich]

Not related enough? No problem, Jamie. I'll post it seperately.

[RussL]

Just one little thing I missed so far: what about breaking up when the ride is over? What if a couple of group riders want to veer off from the planned ride towards the final destination because that allows them to get home before darkness?

 

Erick, this is an excellent point that is very appropriate for my group rides. Since people on our rides come from all corners of the Phoenix metro area, we tend to peel off at different points in the ride depending on the circuit. I often wonder, when is the "group ride" part of the ride over? As a riding group, we've never discussed it, but probably should.

 

By the way, excellent topic Jamie.

[PhillyFlash]

Lots of very good ideas. Here are a few more, although I hate to say that I don't always abide by them:

 

Cell phones - most of us have them and take them on rides, even if we rarely use them. It would be good to start out knowing several phone numbers of the riders in the group. If someone disappears, they can call you or you can call them. You may have to wait until you get to a cell zone, but the non-cell areas are shrinking. Having cell phone numbers is essential on a extended group ride (more than one day, far from home). This enables all of you to hook up again, even if it is a day later. If you show up at a town at different times, without any pre-arranged place to stay, the first ones to arrive can call and leave messages.

 

If you're in a large group and there is more than one gas station, use both (or all) of them. 10 bikes waiting for 2 pumps when there is another station a couple blocks away (or less) is just downright foolish, and makes the stops take much longer. Add to that rest room breaks with only one uni-sex bathroom, and a simple gas stop could last 30 minutes or more.

 

Communication, on the bike and off. Talk to each other about what you want to do (type of riding, distance to cover, meal stops, etc.), but also what you may not like about someone's riding. Don't be cruel about it, just honest. This is not about egos; it's about safety.

 

As has been said before, pick the riders in your group carefully, especially on a long trip. I've traveled with good friends who were a pain in the butt to ride with, and some who I've been in sync with from the start. If a few of you click well and want to break away from the group, mention it at a stop - don't just disappear and leave the rest of the group worrying about you. You can still plan to meet up at the same towns, or not. But do not leave the group if you're the one with all the route information and the others don't know how to go, or if you're leaving one or two riders alone who feel very uncomfortable traveling alone, especially if you invited them on the ride.

 

Communicate with each other. It bares repeating.

 

Be patient. If you are traveling with people you like and want to ride with, they are not always going to be on your schedule, you won't always be on theirs, and sometimes sh!t happens. Someone may not be feeling well for part of a trip, or might get tired and need to rest for 30 or 40 minutes. If you're in a large enough group, some riders can stay behind while others go on ahead. If it's a small group, just relax, do a little sightseeing, or take a break yourself. I was on a group ride in Arkansas last year when one of the riders got a flat tire. Our group stayed with him to help. Another group stopped to help, but more to socialize. Same with the next group that came along. It wasn't a big deal, and actually, we had a good time getting to know each other and making fun of the guy with the flat tire (don't worry, David, I won't mention your name). Same happened when I wrecked my bike. The bottom line is don't leave someone stranded. It could be you next.

[EffBee]

I ride sweep. I've been told I have a herding or mother-hen complex. So be it. I ride sweep.

 

My contribution to the group is to let everyone know that I'll be last, I'll be back there for whatever they need.

 

I won't leave until they're ready, and they need not feel rushed.

 

If they ride slow, I'll be slower.

 

I have the most powerful of the commonly used FRS/GMRS radios, so if someone has a problem, my radio's range can always reach the group leader with the info that we're pulling over.

 

I have my bike outfitted with the brightest PIAA Ion Crystal yellow fog lamps. At any time I'm in visual contact, anyone can check their rear-view mirrors. Even if they have no radio communication, if they can see my yellow lights, all is right with the world.

 

I have an excellent assortment of quality tools.

 

I carry spare spark plugs, throttle cables, alternator belts, oil sight glass, wire, solder, zip ties, tire plugs, air pump, oil, gear lube, etc.

 

And perhaps most important, I'm also the guy with the spare roll of toilet paper.

 

I ride sweep.

[PhillyFlash]

Yes, he rides sweep. And what a fine job he does of it. But every once in a while, even the guy who prefers sweep gets that irresistible urge to just rip past the leader and fly out in front to reach the twisties with a clear path. So one of the things to get clear during non-riding times is who will take over as sweep, and what does that role entail. With Fernando, he'll always return to sweep after a while. He may be 50 miles down the road when the group reaches him, but in the end, he rides sweep.

[EffBee]

Yes, he rides sweep. And what a fine job he does of it. But every once in a while, even the guy who prefers sweep gets that irresistible urge to just rip past the leader and fly out in front to reach the twisties with a clear path. So one of the things to get clear during non-riding times is who will take over as sweep, and what does that role entail. With Fernando, he'll always return to sweep after a while. He may be 50 miles down the road when the group reaches him, but in the end, he rides sweep.

 

Geez, pass a guy one time and he never forgets it. You'd think you would be used to it by now.

 

True, but it's one of those things that can be handled differently. Heck, if you get that irresistible urge on that irresistible road, you're gonna have to wait for someone sooner or later, so now I just wait first, go later. Now, I just hang back and let the group get some distance on me. Kinda like that thread about passing Harleys. The longer I wait, the faster I can go and the longer I can go fast. Then I just wick it up until I catch the group.

 

Actually, riding sweep is very relaxing for me. I only have to watch for riders in front of me, never behind me. If I want to slow down to a more sedate pace in order to take my eyes off the road to enjoy some scenery, I can do that without upsetting the group. And if I screw up a line going through a turn (which happens more often than I care to admit), no one sees it but me.

[David]

And if I screw up a line going through a turn (which happens more often than I care to admit), no one sees it but me.

 

That's not true. I saw you miss a line in Colorado once. I wrote it down in my journal.

[Erick]

Actually, riding sweep is very relaxing for me. I only have to watch for riders in front of me, never behind me. If I want to slow down to a more sedate pace in order to take my eyes off the road to enjoy some scenery, I can do that without upsetting the group. And if I screw up a line going through a turn (which happens more often than I care to admit), no one sees it but me.

Those are a couple of very good reasons to ride sweep.

Perhaps one more: it's just impressive to see a group of BMWs swing through a winding road. The leader will not be able to enjoy that sight.

[KMG_365]

Those are a couple of very good reasons to ride sweep.

Perhaps one more: it's just impressive to see a group of BMWs swing through a winding road. The leader will not be able to enjoy that sight.

Very true!

 

I enjoy riding sweep as well, though I think Leslie likes it more than I, so I'm usually stuck leading. Well, perhaps stuck is not the right word since I enjoy leading as much--and I have to justify that dang GPS! But when leading I also enjoy coming out of a series of fun twisties and looking back in my mirrors to see the rest of the group exiting the last corner (and looking for Leslie's amber Motolights). Despite the full-face helmets, I can still see them all smiling!

[Tool]

Let's see... NON-RIDING ETIQUETTE:

 

OPB's* (Other People's Bikes) - I agree: Look but don't touch. How would you like it?

 

Have some cash with you; forget about stressing over finding an ATM... it won't kill you to have a $20 bill in your pocket, but having some smaller bills comes in handy, too. And when eating in larger groups, be generous - put more down on the table than you think you owe, the waitress/waiter deserves a good tip since they generally split tabs into separate checks, and have to hop to keep everyone happy at the same time.

 

Make sure you are READY physically and mentally for every ride... got the right gear (weather could change) and you feel good. Not quite? Bow out gracefully; don't ruin the ride for others. When it's time to roll - be ready! Full gas tank & empty bladder!

 

It should also be each rider's responsibility to KNOW WHERE you're going! You didn't sign up for a catered cruise. Just in case you get separated, you can still get there. Have a map or GPS. Use it.

 

Another I suppose would be how and where to park your bike: close to the others and ideally in a way that doesn't box anybody in.

 

...and not so close that if it's parked incompetently and as a result comes to a noisy stop on its side, it won't take out my bike, too!

 

To add to that: Altho space can get precious when a bunch of bikes arrive someplace in a group, use some common sense. Don't park so close that I can't even get my saddlebags open!!