Looking for Suggestions for a 9 mm. Semi-Auto

[Mike]

I'd like something of good quality. Reliability is, of course, of paramount concern. What do you like . . . and why?

[Twisties]

I'd like something of good quality. Reliability is, of course, of paramount concern. What do you like . . . and why?

 

We use a 9 mm mesh screen on a shaker table to remove rocks from our soil samples. With the shaker table it's a semi-automatic process and dead reliable. We like it because it's cheap and efficient!

 

Jan

[Timmer]

I had a Smith & Wesson 659 for 12 years. It suited me because its size and weight worked for me. But, I don't believe they're made anymore. Glocks and Sigs seem to be the going thing these days.

 

Reliability? Autoloaders are ok - but for reliability buy something like a classic 6" Colt Python .357 magnum revolver. I've had mine for 29 years, it has never jammed, and it shoots better than the day I bought it.

[smiller]

While it won't win any aesthetic awards it's very hard to beat a Glock, especially in terms of out-of-the-box reliability, and the things are only slightly less durable than a rock. Easy to strip and clean too, makes frequent shooting less of a chore.

[Twisties]

This one is one of my other favorites:

 

 

Note the vanadium-chrome finish, stubby profile perfect for a motorcycle toolkit, and while it is shown configured as a 9mm, it can be configured at virtually any size you desire within moments. You should see this baby go!

[tobyzusa]

Do you have a carry permit for that baby?

[PRC]

I'd like something of good quality. Reliability is, of course, of paramount concern. What do you like . . . and why?

 

..if being used as a duty weapon, then a Sig 226 would work out just fine for ya...for personal protection in a concealed manner, a Sig P239 would do the trick. Both are extremely reliable and well tested. A quick question though, why are you set on a 9mm??

[Mike]

A quick question though, why are you set on a 9mm??

 

I'm not necessarily "set" on 9mm, but I've got a fair amount of experience with that round and it seems to me like it strikes a reasonable balance in terms of cost, capacity, and effectiveness.

[smiller]

Do you have a carry permit for that baby?

In Chicago?

 

and it seems to me like it strikes a reasonable balance in terms of cost, capacity, and effectiveness.

It is all of those, especially the cost factor. Also easy/fun to shoot.

[russell_bynum]

While it won't win any aesthetic awards it's very hard to beat a Glock, especially in terms of out-of-the-box reliability, and the things are only slightly less durable than a rock. Easy to strip and clean too, makes frequent shooting less of a chore.

 

+1

[Mike]

Do you have a carry permit for that baby?

In Chicago?

 

 

I think he was replying to Twisties. You can carry ratchet wrenches in Utah without a license.

[smiller]

You can carry ratchet wrenches in Utah without a license.

Which is ironic since I've seen mechanics who can do more damage with a ratchet wrench than a handgun.

[PRC]

A quick question though, why are you set on a 9mm??

 

I'm not necessarily "set" on 9mm, but I've got a fair amount of experience with that round and it seems to me like it strikes a reasonable balance in terms of cost, capacity, and effectiveness.

 

Works for me.....Just some food for thought though, collateral damage. You live in a densely populated area. 9mm is a a high velocity round that tends to keep going through whatever it hits or bounces off of. If you want a weapon for home protection as well as out in the streets that really packs a lot of inertia, go with a .45. I know it may cost a little more and weigh a little more, but its a sub-sonic round and packs a lot of knock down. It's a rare occurrence that a round would bounce off of a windshield or street or building as has been the case with the 9. Or if you want to look at something that's not too heavy, concealable and can crack an engine block, the Sig 357 round in a P239. BTW I have no affiliation with Sig, just happens to be my maker of choice. If you go with a compact .45, then I'd say the H&K .45USP Compact would be "sweet"(was issued to me by my agency)!

[PRC]

 

 

 

you can carry ratchet wrenches in Utah without a license

 

That was a ratchet wrench??? Looked like a crack pipe to me!

[SteveB]

Kimber now offers a 9mm in their smaller 1911 pro-carry line.

It's hard to beat the out of the box accuracy of a Kimber.

[Gregori]

[9mm is a a high velocity round that tends to keep going through whatever it hits or bounces off of. (...)

Part of my solution to that issue was to get a .40. The rest I leave to the Glaser safety slug. It's a "lightweight" slug that separates on impact.

In theory it won't make it through both layers of drywall in a house, much less exterior walls.

 

I've got a few of these top loaded over conventional rounds in my Glock Model 22. (One chambered, three in the pre-ban 17 round magazine.)

I figure if I'm in a situation where I need to pull the trigger more than four times, I need heavier ammo. (And I should be fully awake by round 5, and less likely to miss.)

 

While the Glock has death-ray accuracy, the short barreled .38 revolver that's my backup isn't much more accurate than a garden hose, and is loaded exclusively with Glasers.

 

Yeah, they're expensive, but if I can help it I don't ever intend to fire them.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glaser_Safety_Slug

[KDeline]

Your on quite a roll, huh?

[ShovelStrokeEd]

I really, really like my Browning HiPower. Almost all my early training was with a Colt Woodsman .22 and, when I got old enough, a 1911. I think I started out plinking behind our house in the country when I was about 7 or 8, under parental supervision till my Pop was confident I was safe. Little .22 rifle back then, a Marlin as I recall. I graduated to hand guns a little later.

 

Reason for liking the HiPower is simple, it is exactly the same, control wise, as what I have practiced with all my life. Both guns, the 1911 and the HiPower were designed by the same guy. My other, house gun, is a Colt Delta Elite in 10 mm. Great gun but expensive to shoot. The muzzle blast from that 10 will take care of anything I miss with the bullet, man, that thing barks.

 

'Nother thing about the HiPower, it is purty. Something that can't be said about the modern shooting appliances. Biggest disadvantage is the need for "condition one" if you expect to have to deploy it in a hurry. I have no problems with that but, others may and I don't really disagree. As a matter of preference, I would go with a gun that allows first shot double action, remaining rounds single action as opposed to a double action only piece. Nothing like a crisp 4 lb trigger that breaks within a 1/16" as compared to a 6 pounder that needs 1/4" of takeup.

[Francois_Dumas]

I'd like something of good quality. Reliability is, of course, of paramount concern. What do you like . . . and why?

 

We use a 9 mm mesh screen on a shaker table to remove rocks from our soil samples. With the shaker table it's a semi-automatic process and dead reliable. We like it because it's cheap and efficient!

 

Jan

 

I like your ways........

[Marty Hill]

Mike,

 

I use a Glock 10 and like it more than the Glock 9 I used for awhile.

[hANNAbONE]

i oWNED a Taurus 9mm, had lusted after the Beretta 9....but then had heard of some nightmares after the slides were giving way (years ago)...I think the Glock would be the pick now.

 

I traded the Taurus for a Model 31 .45 cal Glock several years ago. Beautiful weapon.

[waylap]

Trust me on this one. The Glock 19 9mm is the last one you will buy. I had one 15 years ago and sold it for some odd reason or other and have always wanted one again and got one. The general size and shape is ideal for regular carry or concealed carry. It has a four inch barrel and 15 round magazine but is small, and alows your whole hand to grip it including the pinky which is important. 9mm is all you need, 40 too much kick and less rounds. 9mm rounds today have much greater balictics and performance , especially considering you get 15+1 of them. It's like a pez dispenser for protection. You can let it get rained on, shoot it and not clean it for a couple months, drop it in the sand etc.

 

The only thing to remember : Glocks don't have a "safety". As far as keeping a round chambered and ready to fire. It will go bang when the trigger is puled. Easy solution if it worry's you is to carry it chamber empty if you carry it in any way that may cause you to constantly worry that the trigger may get accidentally activated"unlikely" but the brain will worry about these things. Trust me, it's the best combination of reliabilty,capacity and size you'll ever find.

[Lets_Play_Two]

I have an H&K P7M10 that I really like because if I run out of ammo it can be a deadly projectile on its own.

[Fugu]

Works for me.....Just some food for thought though, collateral damage. You live in a densely populated area. 9mm is a a high velocity round that tends to keep going through whatever it hits or bounces off of.

You are repeating a commonly held misconception here.

 

The penetration of 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 rounds through typical barriers like house walls is VERY similar. They will all go through half a dozen or more sheets of drywall and through siding unless they hit something solid. I've personally seen .40 S&W go through a door jam (between door and jam) through 3 interior walls, and then destroy a 2x4 in a 4th wall. I've also seen a lowly .22 LR round go in one end of a trailer, and go out the other, passing through the bathroom walls on its way. This is not a criteria to use when selecting a defensive round. It is a good argument for hollow point defensive rounds designed to expand and stop in their target versus full metal jacket or "ball" ammunition.

 

Even hollowpoints can and do go through targets. It is important to shoot accurately and to be aware of the background.

 

If you want a weapon for home protection as well as out in the streets that really packs a lot of inertia, go with a .45. I know it may cost a little more and weigh a little more, but its a sub-sonic round and packs a lot of knock down.

This is another fallacy- "packing inertia". You are talking about a 230 grain bullet. That's 1/3 of ounce. You cannot make it move fast enough to knock down anything bigger than a beer bottle and if you could, it would go through the flesh of a human being (overpenetration as discussed above). Bullets fired by pistols and rifles work by making holes in things, not by imparting force via inertia.

 

If bullets worked by knock down power, you would be put on your back by the recoil because for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, right? Even the mighty .50 BMG rifle will not knock down the shooter.

 

 

It's a rare occurrence that a round would bounce off of a windshield or street or building as has been the case with the 9. Or if you want to look at something that's not too heavy, concealable and can crack an engine block, the Sig 357 round in a P239.

Off a street or building? Any round will bounce off the street, ditto a brick building, provided the angle is correct.

 

I like the .357 Sig. It's a 9mm on steroids, and the necked down case shape is a reliable loader, much like the gently tapered 9mm parabellum shape.

 

Now, if you don't like the 9mm, which in +P+ loadings can hit 1100-1200 fps, why is it you like the .357 Sig, shooting a bullet of the same size at 1300-1400 fps? It's almost the exact same thing. Both are roughly 125 grain bullets of .355 inches diameter. If you prefer a subsonic round, dig up some of the old 147grain 9mm.

 

Cracking engine blocks with pistols is the stuff of Dirty Harry movies. You might as well say "they'll have to strain the remains for the fingerprints". Deflection off windshields is primarily impacted by the angle of the bullet relative to the glass. To say 9mm bounces off implying that it can't penetrate windshields is disingenuous. I'd rather have a 10mm (or a rifle) if I had to shoot something through a windshield, but the 9mm isn't a BB gun exactly.

 

BTW I have no affiliation with Sig, just happens to be my maker of choice. If you go with a compact .45, then I'd say the H&K .45USP Compact would be "sweet"(was issued to me by my agency)!

 

H&K makes nice pistols. So does Sig. Just what agency are you referring to?

 

 

 

As to the original poster - if you are set on 9mm, there's a ton of choices depending on how large a pistol you want, what fits your hand, and what your shoot well.

 

From the pocket sized Kahr PM9, to gov't model 1911s in 9mm, to the Sig P226, 225, 228, 239, to Glock, to Springfield XD, H&K...

 

You need to find some of these to rent or borrow and see what works well for you- or give us a better idea of what works well for you now. As an example, I like Glocks just fine, I know they work, but I am more comfortable with the grip angle of Sig (and other) pistols. I actually have and practice with a Glock, but it's not my favorite.

 

Another thing to consider is that for any given form factor in 9mm, you can typically get a .40 or a .357Sig or even a .45.

 

Examples that are the same size or within tenths of an inch:

 

The Kahr PM9, PM40, and PM45

 

The Sig 239 in 9mm, 40, and .357Sig

 

The Sig 228 9mm vs 229 40, .357

 

The Sig 226 in 9mm, 40, or 357 and the 220 in .45 (220 has slimmer grip, single stack mag)

 

Glock 19 9mm vs G23 40 vs whatever number the middle sized Glock in 357 sig is

 

Glock 27 40, G26 9mm, G32 (I think) 357 sig

 

Glock 21 in 45 vs G20 in 10mm

 

 

 

Given that situation, unless you are particularly recoil sensitive, I'd go with the larger caliber in whatever pistol platform you choose. Keep in mind that many .40 pistols can be converted to .357 Sig with a simple barrel swap. The .40 is a fine defensive round despite being maligned as a compromise between the big slow 45 and the fast little 9mm.

 

With all rounds, shot placement is the key, repeated shots on target being paramount, but even inside that parameter, I would not recommend to anyone that they carry a defensive weapon chambered in a round smaller than 9mm. There's simply no reason to anymore since there are a ton of good, tiny 9mm pistols out there if you can't conceal a larger one.

[Fugu]

The rest I leave to the Glaser safety slug. It's a "lightweight" slug that separates on impact.

In theory it won't make it through both layers of drywall in a house, much less exterior walls.

 

Problem is it doesn't do much more to humans. Glasers have been shown in ballistics media testing to not live up to their hype. They won't go through more than a few sheets of drywall, but they do not penetrate sufficiently to stop an attacker, either. This makes perfect sense if you think about just how you'd go about making a bullet that knows whether it just hit sheetrock or a person.

 

If these sort of bullets worked, you'd just see home invaders wearing drywall vests, anyhow.

 

I figure if I'm in a situation where I need to pull the trigger more than four times, I need heavier ammo. (And I should be fully awake by round 5, and less likely to miss.)

 

What if the first round you fire is the only one you get to fire and it's ineffective?

 

Loading light over heavy is great for hunting pheasant, not so great for defending against human sized targets that intend on doing you harm.

 

While the Glock has death-ray accuracy, the short barreled .38 revolver that's my backup isn't much more accurate than a garden hose,

 

Not to be a jerk, but that's likely you, not the pistol. 2" barreled revolvers are adequately accurate mechanically out to typical defensive ranges, but they are not always easy to shoot due to a short sight radius and sometimes stiff triggers.

 

A good way to improve with that gun is to slap laser grips on it and then practice holding the dot on a target while dry firing the trigger. If the pistol design is not dry firing friendly, use snap caps. MAKE SURE THE PISTOL IS UNLOADED AND YOU HAVE A SAFE BACKDROP BEHIND THE TARGET. PUT THE LIVE AMMO IN ANOTHER ROOM. UNLOAD IT AGAIN.

 

This is a great training tool for all sorts of weapons, actually- and one of the best uses for a laser. I'm dubious about the accounts of criminals just surrendering when they see the red dot, but that can't hurt, either. As a training tool to learn to pull the trigger without moving the sights they are wonderful- instant feedback.

 

If your revolver is truly that inaccurate, retire it or take it to a competent gunsmith, something is wrong with it.

[ericfoerster]

Glock: 17, 19, 26

 

147 grain subsonic rounds

 

Time on the range

[Rich_O]

I'd like something of good quality. Reliability is, of course, of paramount concern. What do you like . . . and why?

 

The best gun for you is the one you can shoot the best.

Hand fit is one big issue.

 

The best thing you can do is go to a range that rents guns and shoot as many as you can. See what works well for you and what you like.

 

THEN factor in reliability, known issues, price, etc.

 

I like the rugged simplicity of Glocks, but other makers are catching on these days too.

[tallman]

Glock: 17, 19, 26

 

147 grain subsonic rounds

 

Time on the range

 

Florida Marine Patrol, now part of FWC, tested the Glock by burying it on the beach for a month.

Worked fine when they dug it up.

[smiller]

Fugu, while we don't always agree on everything I must complement you on your excellent understanding of the technical issues related to this topic.

 

One comment on caliber selection, while your comparison of relative gun size vs. caliber is apt it's also rather difficult for many people to maintain enough training to get around the recoil issue and shoot accurately with the larger calibers in smaller guns (yes, I know everyone should maintain adequate training but in the real world this often just doesn't happen.) For many individuals the relatively light recoil of the 9mm makes it much more controllable (especially in some of the very small packages avilable today) than a .40 or .45 or .357 Sig., and corresponding more accurate in that shooter's hands. Your comments on the importance of shot placement are well taken and I'm sure you would agree with the adage that 'a BB that hits its target is better than a cannonball that misses...' Just a thought.

[ericfoerster]

Tim, I've carried my Glock on duty for at least 12 years. I think it may be longer, but I can't remember back that far.

 

I have no doubt the Glock will survive anything the "normal" person could throw at it. I also carried a Sig and a Smith, but the Glock has been in the holster longer than all the others.

 

I wish they built a motorcycle It would be ugly, but it would last a long time.

[DonMcCall]

I've got a Walther 9mm ppk/s that I like; never jammed, pretty accurate for what I bought it for (target practice).

Not being in an occupation or area where 'stopping power' is a concern, it's just fine for me. Also it's kinda cute

Don

[Couchrocket]

What do you plan to do with it?

 

If you want small, accurate, easy to stow, you might want to consider 9mm Kurtz (aka 380) if it is for personal defense. Then, I could heartily recommend the Walther PPKS made by S&W under license, in stainless. The newer design, and S&W's expertise have eliminated the feed problems some earlier PPK's were said to have. Mine has had tons of ammo through it w/o a single glitch of any kind. It is smooth, and a delight to shoot, amazingly accurate right out of the box, and totally reliable.

 

I have a 23C Glock .40 cal S&W and it is very powerful and very accurate. The PPKS is every bit as accurate in spite of the smaller size and shorter barrel. It packs away nicely and with hollow points will serve just fine in the event you need to discourage a very bad person, or disptach some foaming at the mouth critter. Beautifully made. Being fully double action, it is also safe to carry in a ready to go mode when appropriate -- more so than the Glock (unless you have the little plastic gizmo in the trigger guard).

 

 

If small isn't a "first criteria" then the Glock recommendations above are certainly your best bet for a "real" 9mm semi-auto.

[Fugu]

Fugu, while we don't always agree on everything I must complement you on your excellent understanding of the technical issues related to this topic.

All credit goes to those who have had the misfortune of instructing me. You realize I'll never shut up now, too, right?

 

One comment on caliber selection, while your comparison of relative gun size vs. caliber is apt it's also rather difficult for many people to maintain enough training to get around the recoil issue

I agree almost wholeheartedly.

 

I've found that if you hand a new shooter a .40 and say "It's a real snappy little bugger" most will find that to be true and walk away shaking their hand like they just got stung. On the other hand if you don't tell them it's not a 9mm, some won't notice a big difference.

 

Now, that said, there is certainly a difference in recoil between 9mm, 40 and 45 in terms of force, but more important in my opinion is the speed with which that force is applied. The .40 S&W has less force than does a .45 ACP, but with their respective recoil impulses charted against time, the 40's curve is a spike, the 45's is a wave.

 

People often find the spike worse even though the shove from the .45 is transmitting more force to their hand. So, when comparing these rounds it's not always the bullet diameter or bullet weight that matters. In order of perceived recoil, least to most, my personal chart would be: 9mm, .45 ACP, .357 Sig, .40 S&W

 

We are in total agreement that hits on target is the key. 2 hits with a 9mm beats 4 misses with a hand cannon every time.

[Fugu]

My only concern with something like the Walther is the 9mm Kurz round which is a weaker round than the 9mm parabellum. You can get a Kahr PM9 that fires the 9mm para in a smaller and lighter package than the Walther. The Springfield XD9 subcompact is a little bigger but holds more rounds, ditto the Glock 26.

 

I think Kahr clearly had the Walther in their sights (I am so prone to bad puns in these gun threads) when they designed the PM guns. I also think Kahr hit the mark. I've been very happy with both of my PM guns. My wife appropriated my PM9 from me, so I got a PM40, they've both been flawless.

 

Now, I'd much rather look at a Walther - Kahrs are pretty like Glocks and A-10s and KLR 650s are pretty - they are simple, rugged, a bit homely - you admire them because they are marvels of rugged engineering. BUT, in choosing a tool for defense, I'll take the 9mm over the .380 (aka 9mm Kurz) anytime. I think the prices are similar. I've picked up both of my Kahrs for around $500 used.

 

Here's one of many articles on the ballistics of the .380 vs. 9mm para: http://hunting.about.com/od/guns/l/aast9mmv380a.htm

 

The .380's inability to penetrate deeply enough is the primary concern. Note that the chart of ballistics tests was developed using the same barrel length (in fact the same gun model except for caliber) - in other words a fair test. The best .380 round did not penetrate as deeply as the worst 9mm round, and half of the tested .380 rounds failed to penetrate much past 6 inches, wholly inadequate for self defense.

 

This brings up another very important tangent- research the performance of the ammunition you will carry in a defensive firearm. There is a lot of snake oil being sold of late. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Frequently, the ammunition carried by the local PD is a good choice. Make sure the ammunition in question functions well in your particular firearm before trusting it.

[philbytx]

Ok...now you've done it asking for opinions on THIS board is akin to a cat running inside a dog pound

 

AFAIAC - Glock 19

Good size/weight for most folks and suitable for CCW.

11 and 16 rounds (10+1 and 15+1 - state dependent) with easy peasy maintenance and dependable as all hell.

Despite all the bollocks you will hear/read regarding ammunition, penetration in gelatin, pig bodies etc. etc. it all comes down to YOUR training.

 

Size doesn't matter in the situation/gunfight normally seen in PD situations and a well trained 9mm user (with appropriate JHP ammunition) could easily neutralize a .45 wielding gangstah.

 

Also, regarding a personal use firearm, the best thing for you to do is go to a good gun shop/range and simply "try them on" for size.

 

 

 

[LandonBlueRT]

 

I'm not necessarily "set" on 9mm, but I've got a fair amount of experience with that round and it seems to me like it strikes a reasonable balance in terms of cost, capacity, and effectiveness.

 

I have an HK (Heckler & Koch) in .40 caliber. The easiest handgun to disassemble that I have had. Shoots well and has never jamed on me. HK has an exc. reputation for quality and reliability.

[Dick_at_Lake_Tahoe_NV]

What do you plan to do with it?

 

If you want small, accurate, easy to stow, you might want to consider 9mm Kurtz (aka 380) if it is for personal defense. Then, I could heartily recommend the Walther PPKS made by S&W under license, in stainless. The newer design, and S&W's expertise have eliminated the feed problems some earlier PPK's were said to have. Mine has had tons of ammo through it w/o a single glitch of any kind. It is smooth, and a delight to shoot, amazingly accurate right out of the box, and totally reliable.

 

I have a 23C Glock .40 cal S&W and it is very powerful and very accurate. The PPKS is every bit as accurate in spite of the smaller size and shorter barrel. It packs away nicely and with hollow points will serve just fine in the event you need to discourage a very bad person, or disptach some foaming at the mouth critter. Beautifully made. Being fully double action, it is also safe to carry in a ready to go mode when appropriate -- more so than the Glock (unless you have the little plastic gizmo in the trigger guard).

 

 

If small isn't a "first criteria" then the Glock recommendations above are certainly your best bet for a "real" 9mm semi-auto.

 

The PPK/s is one of my favorites and it is 9mm Kurz (380ACP)--the shortest 9mm round. Crimson Trace has just introduced a Laser for the PPK/s, so I got one. If you want to carry concealed there is no 9mm smaller than the Kel-Tec P3-AT, weighs only 12oz, with a full 6-round magazine and one in the chamber--I use Corbon Hollow-points for good stopping power. The Kel-Tec fits nicely in your pocket in a De Santis "Nemisis" pocket holster. So many times you may not want to mess around with putting a concealed weapon inside your pants and covering it--but the Kel-Tec can easily be with you all the time--in your pocket.

[rob1100r]

I'd like something of good quality. Reliability is, of course, of paramount concern. What do you like . . . and why?

 

..if being used as a duty weapon, then a Sig 226 would work out just fine for ya...for personal protection in a concealed manner, a Sig P239 would do the trick. Both are extremely reliable and well tested.

 

No doubt, what he said! The P226 is also avail. in 40S&W and .357. I have a Sig P232(.380) and it is built incredibly well, like all Sig products. It never fails no matter how dirty it gets and is scary accurate.

[Skywagon]

Buy a Kimber 45 and you will never go back to a 9. Serious knock down and quite fun to shoot.

 

http://www.kimberamerica.com/pistols/cdp/

[MikeB60]

I've owned or own many of the pistols mentioned.

Can't go wrong with a Glock, I've got a 17, 23, and just sold a 26. Really don't think that a 26 is any easier to conceal than the 17 or a 19 and the weight is not much different either.

 

Carried a M9 Beretta for years while in the military, I've got small hands and don't care for how the thing feels in my hand. However, they work just fine. There were a few instances of slide cracking but that was addressed long ago.

 

Browning hi-power's are just plain sexy and feel great in my hand. Don't like the sights but that’s a relatively easy fix. Almost bought another one this weekend.

 

I love the feel of a M1911 style pistol and my Kimber TLE II will drive tacks. My favorite pistol, hands down but it’s a .45. And as mentioned before some are uncomfortable carrying it "cocked and locked".

 

Most of the time I carry a P220 Sig, they are fine pistols and I’ve shot more than 5,000 rounds through mine in the past few years. Sig also has a great custom shop and I really like the work they did on my P220.

 

I also own a Kahr P40; they make the same pistol in 9mm. Easy to conceal but I had to shoot about two boxes of ammo before it stopped malfunctioning. This is common with Kahr, they have to be broken in, and now mine works just fine. Really simple pistols, double action only shoots just fine at defensive distances.

 

Walther PPK and PP are well made, accurate, and feel good in the hand. I've got a PP in .32 that I bought in Germany but I would not trust a .32 or 380 as a primary carry weapon.

 

Just shot a Springfield XD this weekend and I would highly recommend that you look at one. The pistol feels like a M1911 to me, has a grip safety and a trigger safety similar to a Glock. They are also reasonably priced, about $100 less than a comparable Glock. Really enjoyed shooting this one.

 

I’d recommend you find a local range that rents pistols and shoot a few different models. That’s the best way to get a feel for what fits your hand and makes you the most comfortable. There is a ton of data available on ammo as well, however in 9mm if you stick with something American made, nothing exotic, hollow point and between 115-125 grain bullet you most likely won’t go wrong. You also need to shoot your “service ammo” from time to time. There is a considerable difference (recoil, muzzle flash ect…)in a +P defense load and a relatively inexpensive Russian made plinking round. Although most modern pistols are very reliable, you still need to make sure your pistol likes the round you’ve selected

[glockster]

Mike, just buy yourself a Glock 19. I've put 14,519 rounds through mine with 6 malfunctions. One malfunction was due to lack of a powder charge in my re-loads. The primer had enough force to push the bullet about 1 inch into the barrel. 2 were failures to cycle because I didn't know how to hold a semi-auto when I bought it. The other 3 occured when I was drinkin and I don't remember what happened.

 

I have shot hand loads through it so hot, it melted the lead bullets. The barrel looked chrome plated when disassembled. I have loaded 9mm loads to +P+ and never had a problem. I have shot lead SWC's through it.

 

I have completely buried a loaded magazine along side the pistol in the sand at Dumont Dunes, unburied it, installed the mag and emptied it with no problems. My friends bought new Glocks following that demonstration. The guy with the Baretta would have nothing to do with burying his 92 in the sand..

 

Someday when we meet we'll talk about the other Glocks I have.

 

You cannot beat the price/value that the Glock offers. If you don't count the parts in the magazine the Glock has a total of 29 parts. It can be dissassembled to it's smallest most minute part in less than 10 minutes. Somethng I could show/teach in 20 minutes. A post a few above this one mentions how easy it is to dismantle a H&K USP pistol. As the owner of both a 9MM and .40 S&W H&K, I assure you there is no comparison between it and the Glock as far as dismantling is concerned.

 

All kidding aside it's a helluva handgun.

 

I'm not the glockster for nuttin'.

[bowcop]

Mike,

 

For all practical purposes, you cannot beat the Glock 23 in the .40 cal....but if you really have your heart set on a 9mm look into the Glock 19. Both the 19 and the 23 are perfect for carrying concealed and pack plenty of "punch" .

 

Just my .02 but for reliability you cannot beat a Glock!

[Eschelon1]

Glock Model 17 or 19. Simple, reliable, best gun for the money. If you live in a state that limits magazine capacity to 10 rounds, you might want to go with the Glock model 22/23 (.40 S&W) or the Glock .45 (Model 21) or the .45 GAP (Models 38,37).

 

Honorable mention: Kimber, Springfield XD

 

[MotorinLA]

Go with the

.

 

No need to hit the bad guy. The echo resounding from the inside of your barrel when he speaks, combined with the thundering bang, huge shockwaves and gigantic muzzle flash, will scare the crap out of any criminal inside your home. All this is a good thing as the ammo costs about $1.00 per bullet, so practicing frequently is cost prohibitive.

 

At about $1450.00 a piece, the Desert Eagle .50cal is the best hand-cannon money can buy.

 

If on the other hand you're really looking for a good, reliable gun in a good caliber, I'd recommend the Glock 30. It is a compact .45, which comes standard with a 10+1 capacity. However, as the magazines from the Glock 21 (the full-size version) fit the Glock 30, you can easily upgrade to 13+1. It is small enough to carry concealed, but still has the feel of a full-size gun. It is also a very reliable gun. Furthermore, .45 is a fairly veratile caliber, as you can go to +P ammo if you want a little more zing and a flatter trajectory, while still maintaining a 185 grain slug (vs the typical 230 grain at a lower speed).

[ShovelStrokeEd]

.45 ACP and flat trajectory????

[bowcop]

Mike, just buy yourself a Glock 19. I've put 14,519 rounds through mine with 6 malfunctions. One malfunction was due to lack of a powder charge in my re-loads. The primer had enough force to push the bullet about 1 inch into the barrel. 2 were failures to cycle because I didn't know how to hold a semi-auto when I bought it. The other 3 occured when I was drinkin and I don't remember what happened.

 

I have shot hand loads through it so hot, it melted the lead bullets. The barrel looked chrome plated when disassembled. I have loaded 9mm loads to +P+ and never had a problem. I have shot lead SWC's through it.

 

I have completely buried a loaded magazine along side the pistol in the sand at Dumont Dunes, unburied it, installed the mag and emptied it with no problems. My friends bought new Glocks following that demonstration. The guy with the Baretta would have nothing to do with burying his 92 in the sand..

 

Someday when we meet we'll talk about the other Glocks I have.

 

You cannot beat the price/value that the Glock offers. If you don't count the parts in the magazine the Glock has a total of 29 parts. It can be dissassembled to it's smallest most minute part in less than 10 minutes. Somethng I could show/teach in 20 minutes. A post a few above this one mentions how easy it is to dismantle a H&K USP pistol. As the owner of both a 9MM and .40 S&W H&K, I assure you there is no comparison between it and the Glock as far as dismantling is concerned.

 

All kidding aside it's a helluva handgun.

 

I'm not the glockster for nuttin'.

 

Ditto to what Glockster said! Glock DOES the JOB!!! 57,000 Police Depts cannot all be wrong!

[SteveW]

Yea... you'll first think it's just a mouse mouse gun - but it sure is worth a look. And visit the discussion board (Seecamp Forum) - lots of way interesting discussions. They're more passionate about their guns than we are about our bikes. Good Luck.

 

www.seecamp.com

[1MPH]

Russian Makarov.

Bought one 12 years ago with two clips,a cleaning kit and a holster. Cost then $95 dollars. easy to work on and always worked. GREAT gun for price.

[HexHead]

I really, really like my Browning HiPower.

Reason for liking the HiPower is simple, it is exactly the same, control wise, as what I have practiced with all my life. Both guns, the 1911 and the HiPower were designed by the same guy.

'Nother thing about the HiPower, it is purty. Something that can't be said about the modern shooting appliances. Biggest disadvantage is the need for "condition one" if you expect to have to deploy it in a hurry. I have no problems with that but, others may and I don't really disagree.

 

As a matter of preference, I would go with a gun that allows first shot double action, remaining rounds single action as opposed to a double action only piece. Nothing like a crisp 4 lb trigger that breaks within a 1/16" as compared to a 6 pounder that needs 1/4" of takeup.

 

+1 on the Hi-Power. I'm a disciple of John Moses Browning and after a succession of Brownings, Berattas, S&W, 1911s, I came to the conclusion that if JMB didn't have a hand in it, I don't need it.

 

As much as I like my H-Power, my Kimber Stainless Pro Carry II .45 has become my default carry gun and I also have a Kimber Custom, well just because. The BHP sits in the night stand because it's easier for my wife to handle also and with the 13 round mag, I don't need to be fumbling around in the dark looking for another mag.

 

Besides....

 

 

 

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Oooooooo, I like that Springfield, got just about everything I would do to a 1911 to make it mine. So, apparently, does Springfield in that they seem somewhat reluctant to part with them. I'm sure there are better prices to be had and, of course, Kimbers ain't exactly cheap either.