motorman587 Posted January 27, 2008 Author Share Posted January 27, 2008 So is this the biggest reason we have speed limits, just easier to control, then to train folks how to drive??? To reduce traffic deaths. Link to comment
ShovelStrokeEd Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 You said it, John, not I, but I would tend to agree with that statement. It is easy to examine some stats. Compare the number of speeding tickets written by your department with the number of careless added to the number of reckless driving tickets. It could easily be argued that either of the latter is more dangerous than just plain speeding but, which is written up more? Much harder to prove reckless when not also associated with speed. You have any number of enforcement tools available from visual estimation, radar and lidar, but, no video camera for documenting careless/reckless driving. Why? I wonder. Link to comment
motorman587 Posted January 27, 2008 Author Share Posted January 27, 2008 You are right Ed. It is easier to right a speeding ticket then anything else. In Florida you are guilty, if the officer testifies to tracking history, has laser/radar, log and license. You are done. Do not think I do not give breaks to person who has license, seatbelted (helmet, gloves, boot m/c license, etc......) insurance (not need on m/c) and registration. Link to comment
Bud Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 [slumping forward over the horse carcass] Link to comment
AdventurePoser Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 It's been said, "It's not the speed that kills, it's the sudden stop." You've almost got it. Specifically, it's the rapid deceleration of all your internal organs that kills! So, I'm with Michael...We've got to save our kinetic energy. If we squander it know, what will our grand children do? Steve in So Cal Link to comment
tallman Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 He ain't dead, 'ees merely resting. Link to comment
philbytx Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 That statement is a little "fuzzy" to say the least. Now, if they were so concerned about injury and death, then why not start at the beginning. Make driving a privilege and not a right. Train the drivers not just, basically, hand out licenses. Over 21 only for full "unconditional" licenses. Minimum yearly vision and medical tests for folks with impairments and for anyone, say, over 55. Regularly test cars for maintenance and safety etc. Then, if the statistics are still showing that speed kills....address the speed issue. Link to comment
deaks Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Do not think I do not give breaks to person who has license, seatbelted (helmet, gloves, boot m/c license, etc......) insurance (not need on m/c) and registration. Did I read that right? You don't need insurance to ride a motorcycle in the states? Link to comment
Bud Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 That statement is a little "fuzzy" to say the least. Now, if they were so concerned about injury and death, then why not start at the beginning. Make driving a privilege and not a right. Train the drivers not just, basically, hand out licenses. Over 21 only for full "unconditional" licenses. Minimum yearly vision and medical tests for folks with impairments and for anyone, say, over 55. Regularly test cars for maintenance and safety etc. Then, if the statistics are still showing that speed kills....address the speed issue. Driving is a privilege in Illinois, there is no legal "right" to drive. Don't know about TX. Link to comment
ShovelStrokeEd Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Not so, most states require you carry liability insurance when your bike is registered in that state. Florida doesn't happen to be one of them. Link to comment
velomoto Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Then, if the statistics are still showing that speed kills....address the speed issue. Honestly this whole discussion is just killin' me! linky Gee, if the car had been going the posted 40 mph instead of the speeding in the article do ya think the car and the occupants still would've been ripped to pieces and scattered around the intersection? BTW, there's a link on the above page to photo's of the accident scene... and the cleanup. Whether you want to say speed kills or not, the faster one drives the less margin of error one has to avoid an accident and the greater the forces which will be applied during the accident. If one gets a vehicle moving fast enough it becomes (in engineering speak) an unstable system and even a slight force (turning, cresting a hill, etc.) can send the vehicle out of control. Want an example? Try pulling a one ton trailer with a one ton vehicle. This will work at slow speeds on flat terrain, but now try this in the mountains at highway speeds. Sure that was an extreme example, but the same basic physics is at work with every vehicle on the road and is demonstrated daily as vehicles are asked to do more than what they are capable of. Sure one can build a cruiser with a big engine, but is the frame stiff enough to make the bike handle at high speed? How about that dirt bike with the short wheelbase which your buddy at work put onto the road by adding a brake light, horn and different sprockets for more speed? How fast can this bike go on the highway before a gust of wind causes it to oscillate and lose control? Sure, keep telling yourself that speed doesn't kill but the basic physics of speed, system stability, and kinetic energy doesn't change. Sorry, but I'm still betting on physics. Link to comment
philbytx Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 There is a pervasive attitude in the U.S. is that driving IS a right...that needs to be changed first Link to comment
philbytx Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 What speed kills? Life is simply all about timing (luck some call it!). Time and place. How many of you have been going faster than the limit and missed an 'incident'? Slower than the limit and been involved in one? Sure, you can lecture on the science of it and all that but it's basically all bollocks and down to "timing" ! Link to comment
Paul Mihalka Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 Sorry, guys, you don't have a dead horse to kick. The buzzards already ate it! Link to comment
Bud Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 Sorry, guys, you don't have a dead horse to kick. The buzzards already ate it! Wish that were true Paul. Link to comment
MotorinLA Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 That statement is a little "fuzzy" to say the least. Now, if they were so concerned about injury and death, then why not start at the beginning. Make driving a privilege and not a right. Train the drivers not just, basically, hand out licenses. Over 21 only for full "unconditional" licenses. Minimum yearly vision and medical tests for folks with impairments and for anyone, say, over 55. Regularly test cars for maintenance and safety etc. Then, if the statistics are still showing that speed kills....address the speed issue. In California having a driver’s license is a privilege, but people still treat it as if it is their ‘right’. Unfortunately laws are not created and passed based on need and reasonableness; rather they are shaped by special interest groups and the squeaky wheel principle. California had a law that made people over a certain age retest for their license more frequently. This law was challenged under the Americans with Disabilities Act by Special Interest and was found to be unconstitutional based on the fact that it was discriminating against a certain group based on age. I guess it is more important that people like George Weller aren’t inconvenienced by additional testing to determine if they are still capable of driving, than protecting the lives of those people he ran into the ground in Santa Monica, CA. In northern Europe most countries require extensive training before issuing a person a driver’s license, including courses in driving on slippery surfaces, as well as night driving. It is also rather expensive, which means that many teenagers often do not immediately get a license upon reaching minimum age for driving (generally 18 years old, instead of 16 years of age as is common in the U.S.). You really should have to do more than answer 18 questions correctly and drive around the block to be issued a driver’s license. [/new rant] So, when you're out riding around, especially at higher speeds, consider that no matter how skilled a rider you may be, the guy driving next to you may have the driving skills of a an ass (the equine type) with a lobotomy. Be safe and keep the rubber side down. Link to comment
philbytx Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 Paul, I'm using it's bones for fertilizer Link to comment
velomoto Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 Life is simply all about timing (luck some call it!). Time and place. How many of you have been going faster than the limit and missed an 'incident'? Slower than the limit and been involved in one? Actually, no - I never out raced an accident. However here's another thot if you're in an accident you could always think, "If only I'd spent more time brushing my teeth this morning..." or for the days one did't crash one could always reflect, "Good thing I spent that extra minute with the dental floss - I would'a been killed without it!" Riding safely is about control, anticipation and the ability to react. The faster one goes, the less of each one has. Physics happens - whether you want to understand it or not. Link to comment
Twisties Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 Seems to me, that if speed kills, then speed must be outlawed completely! 55MPH is way too high! Even walking speed is too high! The only solution is to outlaw all motion. The slogan "Speed Kills" is just that, a great slogan. To be technically correct, one would say "excessive speed while driving a motor vehicle". The semantic difference doesn't matter much to me. I stayed out of this thread because it seemed to start off on this semantic non-issue and run amok with it. However, ran across this today and decided it wouldn't hurt to inject a few facts into the discussion, not that facts ever matter around here. Just want to re-emphasize, I'm no expert on the matter, or the origins of this article... but it seems to have it's ducks in a row. I did track it down and it is a product of the Turner-Fairbank Highway Research Center, a part of the U.S. DOT. Enjoy: THE ARTICLE Link to comment
drzep Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 Good paper Jan - thanks. Figure 5 is very telling. Link to comment
Twisties Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 Personally, I found Table 3 and Figure 8 to be compelling. Jan Link to comment
Pilgrim Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 If speed killed, all the astronauts would be dead. Pilgrim Link to comment
MotorinLA Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 If speed killed, all the astronauts would be dead. Pilgrim If there wasn't high speed, then there would be little friction upon re-entry and we would have seven more astronauts alive today... Link to comment
SageRider Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 If speed killed, all the astronauts would be dead. Pilgrim If there wasn't high speed, then there would be little friction upon re-entry and we would have seven more astronauts alive today... In other words, it was the stopping, not the going (speed) that killed... Link to comment
PRC Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 In other words, it was the stopping, not the going (speed) that killed... Gotta stop eventually, right??? Man I can't wait for warmer weather...you guys being cooped up is making me nutz! Link to comment
Woodie Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 In other words, it was the stopping, not the going (speed) that killed... Gotta stop eventually, right??? Man I can't wait for warmer weather...you guys being cooped up is making me nutz! It's the Delta V that kills, not the V. Link to comment
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