Leadership Adjustment

[bartster]

David This is the BEST board I have ever visited. If I have a problem with my scoot, this is the first place I look. Keep up the great work. Ride Safe. Detroit

[1st Shirt]

O.K. You want feedback, so here are my suggestions for changes:

1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

And after those changes, if you still have time, you can work on these:

1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

 

Now, those should keep you and the moderators busy for some time to come. And if anyone ask you what your doing to improve the board, just refer them to this post.

 

David - perhaps I am misunderstanding your post, but it seems to me you sometimes ask yourself if you have the right to play in your own playground. It seems you are trying to work hard at making sure the playground is in perfect condition and worry that if you play you might mess it up. Well buddy - come on in and enjoy the sandbox. If anyone has the right to mess it up a little it's you. (I'll even loan you my toy shovel and the really neat toy front end loader I use for building make believe castles!!!) And if anyone complains about the playground, tell them to go find another. There are plenty to go around and just like the TV, they can change the channel.

 

Lastly, I know I'm not supposed to say it, but a huge Th k Y u! (There, I really didn't say it but you get the point)

[R-1150-RS]

Dang! I must have missed some really good stuff. What with multiple hurricanes, training classes, a threatened strike at work, I've only had time to read a few posts a day. Can some one post links to the really nasty stuff so I can catch up?

 

No big blowup. Just a few responses to people (on my part) where my frustration took over. I still see us running the place with a fairly definitive hand--just a bit kinder and more patient.

 

To the rest of you, thanks for the kind remarks and the many humorous lines in here. I've been smirking quite a bit! I do know this is a good place and it's taught me a lot about myself and people and the internet. I suspect it's given Cary Littell a bunch of headaches, too, assuuming my voodoo doll in his image has functioned properly when sticking needles in it!

 

David, I think you have done a great job of running the site, and showing you can separate yourself 'the owner' from yourself 'the member'!

 

One would hope that you should be able to tell a member he is a bonehead, when he is one, without someone getting their shorts in a knot about you pulling rank.

 

I think you have found a good balance between allowing some controversy, which there will always be when people feel passionately about anything, without allowing it to go too far. Controversy, when allowed as an opportunity to open an issue to differing perspectives, can more often be an oppeortunity to learn, than anything else.

 

You seem to be able to usually step in at the point where a discussion devolves from one where issues ar being constructively presented, and members are able to learn and appreciate more about the topic, and stop it at the point where members who cannot handle controversy start getting nasty.

 

Great site David!

 

Gary

[becmat]

David, You have to know your post triggered a nerve in most. In my case (a infrequent poster) it is more than that to get me to respond. Please don't overthink this thing. If being a leader means giving up your ability to tell it like it is then one needs to reconsider.

Just because someone mentioned their opinion of your response does notmake the response improper or invalid. Like many have said in previous posts ,this board does not want some PC weenie for a leader. Don't get self conscious on us because you did what needed to be done. What do you think has kept so many here for so long? Well ,somebody must be doing something right. I suspect that someone is you. I have liked it here for some time and all I ask is that you don't cave to some cry baby who wants things to be soft and cuddly . I suggest you send him a "Teddy Bear" and a note about having a nice life.

My vote is for status quo.

 

Regards,

 

Mat.

[Z-Man]

With 50-something replies already in this thread, nobody is likely to read this one but I'll express my thoughts anyhow. Plenty of people have already said it the way I wish I could, and I won't repeat all the accolades that David deserves. However, I marvel at how dedicated he is to maintaining this forum for thousands of us around the planet. My only hope is that he doesn't burn himself out too soon, at least not before I get tired of riding motorcycles. With the responsibilities and pressures of maintaining this playground for us, I would have expected burnout about 10,000 posts ago under David's name.

 

Now I'll go back to watching this second tropical storm in a week harass metro Atlanta and keep trying to convince my 83 year old mother that she doesn't really want me to take her back to her home in Pensacola tomorrow .

[Tasker]

I can do a better job of managing this place. Thank God there are good moderators who help provide a balancing perspective.

 

Strong leaders are not managers. In most cases, good managers will never be strong leaders.

 

David, based on reading your threads, and based on the few opportunities that I've had to get to know you in person, you have always struck me as a strong leader -- not only with this site, but in life in general.

 

I would suggest that you are now the one with the main and guiding vision, and your/our moderators would be your very capable and competent managers, the ones who carry out your vision.

 

Another characteristic of a strong leader is the ability and willingness to be introspective, as you have been, and then make those course adjustments, if necessary.

 

Based on what I see around here, there isn't a lot to fix. Maybe tweak a bit, if you and the moderators think, but not fix.

 

The other thing that many may not know or understand is that this is only one of many things you have going on at any one time, meaning that you are a very busy guy, with many priorities. If you happen to get a little testy once in awhile, then so be it.

 

Kudos to you and the moderators for all you have accomplished around here.

 

TD

[steve.foote]

David,

 

I think this says it all:

 

 

If they don't like it, they can take it somewhere else.

[ghaverkamp]

If they don't like it, they can take it somewhere else.

 

I gather it's some of the "love it or leave it" remarks that David wants to combat. I've not seen many, but perhaps some vanish before I get a chance to see them. I gather they've spooked some of the mods, too.

 

I don't see a lot of problems with the attitude, frankly. I get the impression David doesn't do a lot of the banning, and I tend to think it helps the community having the mods being active members. I know there's been some suggestion of folks being intimidated by their little yellow flags (David's mentioned this in the "Ride Well" posts, I believe) but if so, I'm not sure what people are afraid of.

 

Maybe it's just that I like a little attitude mixed in with everything else...

 

Greg

[BeemerBT]

"Yes, I've clearly put my 'stamp' on this place ..."

 

And, it's a First Class stamp!

[Rider1200RT]

First of all I would like to say that I learned a lot about riding, maintainance and BMW's in general that I did not know or had forgotten about after my 20 year riding hiatus. I guess I could "blame" your website for getting me hooked again and enjoy riding.

If it wasn't for this site I never would have found out about the UNrally and met other riders in the process so I should "blame" you for that too

All people make mistakes and most don't admit to them, it is a strong leader who admits mistakes and learn from them. That is what makes a good leader/moderator etc.

No one person can state that they are without fault, those who do are fools.

I have noticed that a lot of people on this and other boards are quite opinionated, me included. That is what makes life interesting and lively. As long as we all can discuss issues in a civilized way, boards like this will do very well.

Please keep up the good work! , mistakes and all.

[Reopropf]

David,

 

If I could type with more than 1 finger I would love to help you. If I owned a BMW cycle I would ride with you. If I could learn how to use this new laptop effectively I would more often converse with you. But for the meantime KEEP UP WHAT YOU'RE DOING and I will visit with you daily, as I have since I signed on.

 

Tighten the hatches and damn the torpedos.

 

Peter F, current owner of 05 MV F4 AGO

[Reddog900]

David,

 

I, along with those that have expressed their thoughts here, conclude that you are doing something right. As I reflect upon the changes and insight this website has provided to me as a BMW rider I cannot express my gratitude enough for having the opportunity to participate. The recent Tech Daze held in San Jan Capistrano would never of materialized if it wasn't for this site.

 

I think that you are doing a Hellova Job!! Keep up the good work.

[CMWingfield]

I usually avoid these big hug sessions, but I after reading all the posts I was compelled to chime in:

 

This site has helped in making my RT moments not only fun, but informed.....I've been empowered by the discussion; and being able to watch a six thousand mile service at the Eureka Springs Unrally encouraged me to do my own wrenching, which has saved me alot of money. For those things I'm grateful.....I probably visit the site twenty or thirty times a day, and as a result I've become attached to many people even though I've never met them. People from distant lands, folks from close to home and all points in between....This spring and summer I spent most of my spare moments running the highways of America, and I missed alot of stuff on the SportTouring board, but I have one burning question: What the hell happened to Daniel? I hope he's doing well and nothing has happened to him. One day I realized that Daniel was gone, and frankly, I've missed his presence on the board. Daniel, if your out there, God Speed my Bro! Geez, oil and water do mix. Whattayaknow!

 

Good job David. Now, get back to work!

Mike

[JonathanE]

David,

 

I would recommend that you get more adversarial, not less. I haven't been around as much recently as in years past, but this is still the best place to visit on the web, bar none. If I owned zero BMWs, I'd still visit in order to hang with like minded moto tourers.

 

Thanks, and don't change a thing.

[Stan Walker]

One day I realized that Daniel was gone, and frankly, I've missed his presence on the board.

 

I suppose one could miss a pimple if you had been squeezing it long enough.......

 

Look on the bright side, we lost Daniel but gained Jim who posts even more then Daniel ever did. He's far more entertaining too.

 

Just my humble 2 cents.

 

Stan

[ghaverkamp]

Look on the bright side, we lost Daniel but gained Jim who posts even more then Daniel ever did. He's far more entertaining too.

 

And Jim doesn't try to bait folks in every post.

 

Greg

[ElliottA]

There are a lot of good or entertaining people that just disappeared. T.M. Roe, MJames, Daniel, Gleno, Daryll... Weird thing about discussion boards isn't it. You don't know if they changes jobs, changed gears, got sick or hurt, banned or just moved on.

 

What did happen to Daniel? Last seen here.

 

I suppose one could miss a pimple if you had been squeezing it long enough

One persons pimple is another's beauty mark

[Jim VonBaden]

Look on the bright side, we lost Daniel but gained Jim who posts even more then Daniel ever did. He's far more entertaining too.

 

And Jim doesn't try to bait folks in every post.

 

Greg

 

One day I realized that Daniel was gone, and frankly, I've missed his presence on the board.

 

I suppose one could miss a pimple if you had been squeezing it long enough.......

 

Look on the bright side, we lost Daniel but gained Jim who posts even more then Daniel ever did. He's far more entertaining too.

 

Just my humble 2 cents.

 

Stan

 

Not sure about being comparred to Daniel.

 

Jim

[Shawnee Bill]

I suppose one could miss a pimple if you had been squeezing it long enough.......

One persons pimple is another's beauty mark

Not sure about being compared to Daniel.

 

Jim

Depends on if you are being compared to the pimple or the beauty mark

[Jim VonBaden]

I suppose one could miss a pimple if you had been squeezing it long enough.......

One persons pimple is another's beauty mark

Not sure about being compared to Daniel.

 

Jim

Depends on if you are being compared to the pimple or the beauty mark

 

Isn't a beauty mark just a fany name for a mole? Not much of an improvement!

 

Jim

[Ken H.]

All the comments about David's (and the other moderator's also) great work and the status of the board are spot on in my book, but I would also like to add another thought:

 

Diversity is the grandfather of progress.

 

We need to never loose sight of the fact that it is the differences in people (here or anywhere else for that matter) that spawn the discussions, debates, and thought processes, from which new thoughts, contemplations, ideas, and solutions come. When we strive to make everyone be/think alike, we end up with disinterest, stagnation, lethargy, and decline.

 

So I for one salute the banter, differences of opinion, and variety of methods & madness that manifest themselves here. If we loose all the "Daniels", we loose.

 

So David, feel free to be impatient, adversarial, and too emotional on occasions. Without that, the board would be less that what it is!

[brinkjm]

Not sure about being comparred to Daniel.

 

Jim

 

Does somebody need a hug?

 

Come over here, ya' big balooka!

 

[Cheechoo]

Does somebody need a hug?

 

Come over here, ya' big balooka!

 

 

I think a financial contribution is more in order. Paypalling mine now to show my deep appreciation.

[K12Boyee]

David,

 

You hit the nail right on the head. I couldn't agree more with your ascertataion of your own behavior. It takes someone of uncompromising integrity to admit their personal shortcomings and leadership failures.

 

Thank you.

 

I look forward to the coming positive changes in the near future. You're one swell human being, Dave. Keep that chin high, ya hear!

[bmw_rider]

David,

To quote the home page: BMWSportTouring.com is a privately owned web site that exists to promote an on-line, on-road community specifically related to sport touring on BMW motorcycles.

 

It's your site, run it the way you want..... which IMHO is great! Once in a while when I have seen you have an opinion to state, you have done so in a forthright and honest manner. If every once in a while you have to tell a member to 'go their own way', so be it. It is after all your site.... but thanks for sharing it with us.

[Haynes]

David,

Keep on doing what you're doing.

[Jim VonBaden]

Not sure about being comparred to Daniel.

 

Jim

 

Does somebody need a hug?

 

Come over here, ya' big balooka!

 

 

Awwww, that's what my mommy used to call me!

 

I think I'll take that hug now!

 

Jim

[KenF]

I'm a frequent lurker, and an infrequent poster. When I first started considering the RT I looked at the BMWOA board and googling on the RT I found this one and I'm happy to say that this board feels like home. The discussions here played a large part in my decision to buy my RT (and I might add that I've been very very happy with it!). Keep up the good work!

[johncarves]

David,

Am I confused? I thought this was your board.

 

Rant, rave, do what ever.

 

If it gets bad I'll quit sending money and leave.

 

Roll on BIG DOG!

[RoadRider]

Having said that, I've been impatient, adversarial, and too emotional on several occasions. Telling someone to love it or leave is exactly how I feel, so expressing that is honest, but it's not all that helpful, and it's really poor leadership on my part.

 

I can do a better job of managing this place. Thank God there are good moderators who help provide a balancing perspective.

 

 

I think you may be contradicting your statement.

I am relatively new to this board, but come here often to read and learn. It is VERY good for that. I usually do not post but found this one interesting and disturbing.

 

I logged on and read all the posts. Then came back later to see that one of the posts had been edited by David.

He removed some pukeing icons by another member.

 

I do not see why this happened unless you cannot take criticism or a joke whichever applied in that case.

Then it looked like someone got really upset and re-edited the original post and explained that he was just looking for butt kissing. That also disappeared.

 

I think unless a post is really vulgar, it should remain for all to see and that everyone have a right to their opinion, and those with the power to change it should not do so just to save their own faces. Hey come on, we can all take some criticism can't we. Or are some of us prima donas and above it. JMHO

 

I hope this site is not like that, because I do enjoy reading all the info. Sometimes criticism can be helpful, other times I guess it just lets you see a different perspective of yourself that you don't really want to confront.

Either way, let's not see this become like "Big Brother" in 1984

 

Thanks for this BBS,

Steve

[David]

I logged on and read all the posts. Then came back later to see that one of the posts had been edited by David. He removed some pukeing icons by another member.

 

You have the facts wrong. The puking icons were left as is. The posters account was terminated, not by me, but by another moderator. I did, however, agree with the decision, based on not just this but a pattern.

 

I have no problem with people disagreeing with me--they do it here regularly. But it must be respectful, and that wasn't. I posted a sincere apology and I don't see the call for personal ridicule. That's always been that way here and it will always will be that way here. What I haven't done real well is kept objective about it, but instead reacted in kind. That's what I pledged to do better. I specifically said that this was a mea culpa and not a request for attaboys.

 

Later Buck, Candi's (Sweet650) boyfriend, changed the linked gifs to this one instead. I found it offensive and rude, but I'm going to post it anyway because I'm tired of this nonsense and you all can judge for yourselves if I should have edited it out or not. This is what I removed BECAUSE the puking GIFs had been changed to this image:

 

 

Yes, it was about me. But I would have removed it no matter who it was about.

 

As someone pointed out to me, here is a quote from another board where he expressed his opinion of me as a person:

 

I was banned from MRN about a year ago, but my girlfriend still has an active account there. Well, she had an account there, until last night.

 

It seems Mr. David H Baker (H stands for Hitler) had written a post explaining that he felt he had been short and agitated with people in several posts, and he wanted to get warm, fuzzy, and gay by letting people know that he doesn't want to behave like that and he was in touch with himself, or something like that. The real reason was he's such a [censored]ing egomaniac that he constructed the post to elicit reactionary posts such as "gee, David, you're not like that at all. You're the greatest. You just keep doing that which you do. By the way, can I gobble your cock, or would you like to stick it up my ass?"

 

Well we borrowed the nice little puke .gif from this website and posted it in response to this rididulous thread. No text, no hate mail, nothing but a couple of puking emoticons. The next time the account was logged into it said "your account has been banned or locked: Abusive behavior".

 

Abusive behavior? Emoticons? This guy is [censored]ing unbelieveable! He makes a post admitting he's been an asshole, someone makes a little harmless joke, and he responds by being an asshole!

 

Source

 

By now you've got to be thinking to yourself "why would Bueller think anyone cares, because I sure in the [censored] don't". Spare me the flame job, I already know you don't care. I just wanted to bring to your attention the fact that Baldy & Co. continue to support democracy and free speech, while on the other side the communist block of East Germany is being ruled with an iron fist. Thanks, I appreciate the opportunity to be able to sit down here after a hard day's work and vent my day's stress by being an asshole. Time and time again. Like dad always said, if you find something you're good at, stick with it!

 

And again, apparently in reference to the GIF posted above:

 

As a side note the whole banning thing is quite comical. If you go re-read the post over there you'll see that there are still ways to post even when you are banned-I left him a little present, but I'm sure it will be deleted soon.

 

So he's proud of himself and thinks this is funny.

 

Listen, I'm no saint. But my goal is to have a board where this sort of inhumanness does not take place, whether it's about me or anybody else. Some of you may be terribly amused by personal attacks and disrespect on the internet, but I'm not.

 

Now back to your note:

 

I do not see why this happened unless you cannot take criticism or a joke whichever applied in that case. Then it looked like someone got really upset and re-edited the original post and explained that he was just looking for butt kissing. That also disappeared.

 

I've given you the sequence now.

 

I think unless a post is really vulgar, it should remain for all to see and that everyone have a right to their opinion, and those with the power to change it should not do so just to save their own faces. Hey come on, we can all take some criticism can't we. Or are some of us prima donas and above it. JMHO.

 

You have your wish. It's been restored. Not a single thing was edited except that image. And to put it in context, I've given you two other quotes. Normally we don't explain ourselves like this--it's not worth it. But you will find that there is usually more to the story.

 

Thanks for this BBS.

 

You are welcome, Steve, and I'm glad you've enjoyed it. Apparently it's boring and tame to a few folks, but that's not going to change.

[Jim VonBaden]

WOW! What a vulger jerk!

 

I have, myself, posted a puking gif or two, but it was a smiley doing it. Was this (edit it out if it is), the icon you found distastful?

 

If it is, I apologize but since I found it on a similarly mature DB R1100/1150RS I figured it was OK.

 

Jim

[ghaverkamp]

 

You have your wish. It's been restored. Not a single thing was edited except that image. And to put it in context, I've given you two other quotes. Normally we don't explain ourselves like this--it's not worth it. But you will find that there is usually more to the story.

 

Well, Adolf, that explanation's all well and good. However, I'm conflicted over whether I think it fits the old, insanely nasty and short-tempered leadership style, or if you think it better fits the kinder, gentler, Vulcanic leadership style you desire going forward...

 

Greg

[ghaverkamp]

Was this (edit it out if it is), the icon you found distastful?

 

That was it.

 

Greg

[David]

Let me clarify again! I have no problem with puking gifs per se! I did not edit out the puking gifs until the images were swapped with the image you see in my post! When the image I posted above was put in that post, I edited it out. In other words, the original gifs were links from another site. The original file was changed so that the post would be changed in that they linked to the image above. Does that make sense now?

 

The account was terminated for repeated disrespect.

 

The post was edited because it wasn't in keeping with what we allow on the site.

[ghaverkamp]

I have no problem with puking gifs per se!

 

Oh, come on. You can admit it. Sure you do. No more puking emoticons! Ban 'em now!

 

Greg

[David]

Well, Adolf, that explanation's all well and good. However, I'm conflicted over whether I think it fits the old, insanely nasty and short-tempered leadership style, or if you think it better fits the kinder, gentler, Vulcanic leadership style you desire going forward...

 

I don't intend any substantive difference in what is moderated, just in how it is done. There have been times when I've been unnecessarily adversarial and rude. My responses to The Bear, MattS, and Elliott are examples of poor leadership on my part.

 

I've largely made the right decisions but I have not communicated them in the right way.

[ghaverkamp]

I don't intend any substantive difference in what is moderated, just in how it is done. There have been times when I've been unnecessarily adversarial and rude. My responses to The Bear, MattS, and Elliott are examples of poor leadership on my part.

 

Well, I figured that episode was the catalyst. I didn't see a whole lot wrong with the responses. I was getting pretty annoyed with the big, screaming text imploring people to RTFM, so I can only imagine how annoyed y'all were getting actually having to deal with a bunch of people who were unwilling to read. Can't speak for The Bear, but I figured MattS and ElliottA were both able to take it, anyway.

 

Greg

[Jim VonBaden]

Well, Adolf, that explanation's all well and good. However, I'm conflicted over whether I think it fits the old, insanely nasty and short-tempered leadership style, or if you think it better fits the kinder, gentler, Vulcanic leadership style you desire going forward...

 

I don't intend any substantive difference in what is moderated, just in how it is done. There have been times when I've been unnecessarily adversarial and rude. My responses to The Bear, MattS, and Elliott are examples of poor leadership on my part.

 

I've largely made the right decisions but I have not communicated them in the right way.

 

Come on David, no one is perfect 100% of the time, and to expect to be so is unrealistic. I applaud your goal, but you must realize that everyone eventually encounters people who know how to push the right buttons to set them off. You interact with thousands of different personalities on this DB, there are bound to be a few who rub you the wrong way.

 

Jim

[brinkjm]

David,

 

This place rocks. Period.

 

Members come to this site after having a bad day and instead of taking it out on their S/O, dog or other small fuzzy creature, they light into someone here, tempers flare, blah, blah.

 

Someone has to reel them in, and that's your (thankless) job. At the same time, you too are a member and want to engage in discussions and heaven forbid, you disagree with someone else's opinion. When you do that, it puts you at risk for possible favortism or "leading with an iron fist" because you wear the moderator's badge (or pocket protector may be more appropriate)

 

To sum up my babbling (I promise) I think that we all realize that as adults, we have differing opinions and obviously, some of us have thicker skins that others do. I mean for goodness sake, if someone steps out of line, they get corrected (without insult). GET OVER IT and move on folks.

 

I come here to engage in fun stuff. If I want to throw down, fight, or create grudges, I have co-workers and family for that!

 

So to further sum up my feelings, how about we talk about some motorcycle stuff, huh?

[ESokoloff]

To sum up my babbling (I promise)

 

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzUHH!! Oh sorry, guess I kinda dozed off (AGAIN)

 

 

 

So to further sum up my feelings, how about we talk about some motorcycle stuff, huh?

 

HERE-HERE

That & bring back the welcome emoticon

[BMWGreenRT]

WOW,

I can't wait til we get back to normal again.

 

I've met some great people from this site, developed some Great friendships, made acquaintences, contacts, and gleaned alot of helpful advice and information.

 

I joined this site a long time ago, back when it was Cary's. Now it is David's. I personally don't care who owns or moderates the site, I am just glad that we have it. I imagine that it is a lot of work, and wouldn't want that responsibility. It's easy for us to come here, read what we want and add our opinions.

But the bottom line is "we use it". Let's not "lose" it.

 

I also don't see anyone jumping up and down offering to give of their time when they don't agree with what is done here, so when you have a gripe remember that these guys volunteer their time and are only human like the rest of us...so how about cutting them some slack.

There are nice ways to ask for things and sarcastic ways. I'm sure you know which one will get the wanted results.

 

It's a free country and no one twists anyone's arm to hang out here.

[JohnK]

But it must be respectful,

That's a good guidline to stand by

Now why don't we all just ******* **** *** ****** and go riding!

[Red Barchetta]

I can't say anything that hasn't been already said.

 

All I can say is thanks for doing a great job!

[ElliottA]

I figured MattS and ElliottA were both able to take it, anyway.

 

No scarring here. I don't agree with the classifieds policy but I've had my say and I could have been more diplomatic about it as well.

 

David had every right to remove that particular GIF once it had been modified as it had, no matter who it was about. The person who put it there even knew that when they did it.

 

So anyway...

Where's a spirited Mac vs PC thread when you need it. I'm still waiting for MJames to post his glowing iMac G5 review. THAT would make me happy.

[alexp]

David,

I am a pretty senior member of this board and I think you are doing a great job! I've never met you but I highly respect you for what you and others have done to this site. Keep up with the good job!

Mahalo

[Flipper]

Where's a spirited Mac vs PC thread when you need it. I'm still waiting for MJames to post his glowing iMac G5 review. THAT would make me happy.

Good luck waiting. It's going to have to come via carrier pigieon.

[David]

I can't wait til we get back to normal again.

 

Me neither! I keep thinking about the 100 or so riders having fun in Torrey right now, which is really what this site is about!

 

So we're gonna move on.