My husband wants me to hang it up and I am not ready

[KCSheila]

I have posted before about making a switch from riding a Honda VT750 to a R1100R. Having trouble with the higher center of gravity, I guess. I am 5'7" and weigh 130 and have long legs (which I thought might help). I have ditched the BMW to the right three times in a parking lot or stop light situation. First time, full tank of gas, leaned a "bit" too much to the right to locate my shift lever (on the way home from the dealer the day I bought the bike). Over I went, slowly, but to the ground anyway.

 

Second time, backing out of a parking lot and turned my handlebars to pull forward when I saw a car backing toward me. Cranked them tight and when I let off the clutch, the bike crashed to the ground. No harm done to me on that one.

 

Third one last August, I was backing out of a parking spot on a slope and being very careful since the slope was somewhat steep and noticed my headlight was shining in a car window that was full of people. Instead of continuing to back slowly, I cranked the handlebar a bit too far to the right and as soon as I let out on the clutch, the bike SLAMMED down to the right and the brake and foot pegs hit the side of my foot and trapped it under the bike. I managed to lean back and get enough leverage with my free leg and push the bike up enough I could get my foot out from under the pegs. Bike was still running to I reached up and turned it off. Long story short, I broke my foot in several places and the lower part of my tibia. Not bad fractures, as a matter of fact, I walked on them a month before my foot got worse and I finally went to see a Dr. All the bones have healed, but I have significant nerve damage to my right foot. I am still seeing a Dr. and we are gaining some headway on that.

 

Problem is: Spring is coming and I have the itch to ride again. I can lower my seat enough to flat foot at a stop, but my husband feels that since I have dropped the bike three times, all the right side, that I should consider giving up riding before I do further damage. I love to ride and want to give it another go. He thinks that the bike is too topheavy for me and that I am not strong enough to hold it up. Keep in mind the only issues I have had are when I am at a stop.

 

He rides an 1150RT, but my legs are so long that riding on back cranks my knees too tight and the back seat is not deep enough for me to scoot back close to the backrest and it also swoops up at the back and that sends me even further forward. He likes his bike like it is and doesn't want to modify it in any way.

 

So my choice is to ride my own or not ride at all. Any tips from you pros as to why I keep making the same mistake over and over? By the way, if it makes any difference, I am right-handed.

 

I am unable to put a great deal of pressure on the ball of my foot because all that isn't quite "fixed" yet, but with the seat in the lowest position flat-footing should work for me.

 

If it were you.....................what would you do? Hang it up or give it another go?

 

Don't feel concerned about honest feedback, in our house we ultimately make our own decisions so it won't start a war here. I have not gotten to ride this bike enough to get to know it much because I just got it 2 months before the last accident that broke my foot.

[KCSheila]

Noticing that I am getting some "lookers" at my post, but so far no replies. I am starting to feel like his advice is best taken? Is a "no answer" a nice way to say I should hang it up?

[MadDuck]

Have you thought of talking with a physical therapist about strengthing exercises for knees and in particular ankles. Strong ankles help a lot. When an unexpected side load is encountered your ankle may be rolling leading to the falls. Proper shoes with a wide supportive sole help a lot too. Engineer boots are worn for a reason

 

I use balance boards and practice balancing on one foot, I think the exercise are called plyometrics and they will definitely help.

[StretchMark]

My wife went through the same thing. It's a heavy bike first, but also as you said top heavy which makes those situations you mentioned a little tougher. My wife ended up going for a lighter, shorter bike...the Yamaha FZ6 and is very happy with it. She misses her R1150RS somtimes on the long rides, however.

 

I think if you did a poll, you'd be surprised how many of us have done it. I'm 6'6" 230lbs and I let my RT get away from me once. Never understood how it happened to other people before that.

 

I wouldn't think hanging it up would be the solution.

[skinny_tom (aka boney)]

Hang it up? Because your bike is too big?

[Bob Palin]

The subject line says it all, you're not ready, don't quit. You can work on your leg strength to help in holding the bike up but a lot of it is making sure you don't get in those places.

[russell_bynum]

What Mark said.

 

Why not try a smaller/lighter bike?

[Ruddy]

It seems that each time you dropped the bike, you had cranked the bars. That would make the bike harder to control. I agree with those who suggest working on leg strength. A smaller, lighter bike would help, but if you love your present ride, you'll have to spend a lot of empty parking lot time to build up your skills with it. Hang in there!

[EffBee]

There are three issues here. The first is to analyze why you dropped the bike each time. Is there something you can learn from the analysis? Is there anything you can practice to help reduce the possibility of it happening again (for example, backing up the bike since that appears to have been the circumstances for two of the falls). And what does your doctor say about your eventual foot strength? Will it be sufficient?

 

The second issue is your husband's 1150RT. An aftermarket saddle (even if only for you) will give you the deeper, more rear-set seat pocket you want. An aftermarket passenger peg lowering kit (from Verholen will reduce your knee angle and make riding on the back of his bike a lot more comfortable.

 

And the third issue is an apparent disagreement and/or some definitive lines in the sand between a husband and wife. I want no part of that.

[sidetoside]

It seems there is a recurring theme to your incidents. You cranked the handlebars one direction or another and then let out the clutch. That seems like a recipe for disaster. I am embarrassed to admit that my first bike was a K1200RS. It was a big, beasty top heavy pig.....a beautiful, wonderful pig, but a pig nonetheless. When coming to a stop, the absolute last thing you'd want to do is have those handlebars anything other than straight. And, when taking off I'd generally want the same. When necessary to execute a turn from a stop, I wouldn't crank the bars all the way, but rather would have them turned a bit, give some throttle, let the clutch out more slowly and as it started to move forward, I'd feed in more steering input. Anyway, I think it is more a matter of realizing that the bike is big and heavy and that you can't move it around like a 250 cc dirt bike. Once you do that, I would think these sorts of incidents will be a thing of the past. I would encourage others to chime in here if I am wrong on this.

 

BTW, I had the K1200RS and then got a R1100S. Big difference. I felt more comfortable with the tighter, slower speed stuff. Then a couple of bikes later, I got the R1200GS. It is the best twin so far when it comes to slow speed, tight turning manueverability. I think it has something to do with being lighter than say an RT and also having those big wide bars.

 

As for hanging it up, you've got to be kidding.

[SteveB]

A lighter bike might help. My wife has the FZ-6 with a set of huge Givi bags and loves it. PJ had problems handling our HD, even though the seat was really low the thing was a heavy beast. As a rule women do not have the upper body strength to handle some of those situations. Perhaps your husband just wants you to quite before you decide you want one of these.

[dhb]

I think you have enough weight and height to handle the R1100R. As Mark said, most (if not all) of us have dropped a bike(s) in similar situations, so don't beat yourself up too much on that account. There are not many of us willing to risk back injury holding up a leaning bike--the smart ones let it go and get our legs away from the pegs. It does seem that you may have been trying too hard to save the drop and got your feet tangled in the pegs? Check your boot soles to be sure they will give you good traction (not too worn), but also to be sure they're not hanging up on the pegs either. Also, avoid cranking the bars too much when stopped--it does make the bike more tippy if you're not holding it with the front brake. Nothing you've described in your accidents would suggest to me that you should quit riding for safety reasons.

You could also consider a sidecar rig or trike otherwise if you still need to feel the wind in your hair.

Consider taking the MSF Basic course again. After a day on the 250s, you'll be ready to hop back on the bigger bike.

Best Wishes,

Dave

[ShovelStrokeEd]

I'll chime in with a little perspective and some advise. A little of this is gonna seem harsh but it is not intended that way.

 

Perspective:

I ride every day, it is that or walk as I don't own a cage. Last year, due to a new position within my company, was the lowest mileage I have put on my bikes in over 40 years and I still managed 27K miles, most years it was more like 40-50K. Pulling out of a parking space and going directly into a U-turn on a 2 lane street I accidentally hit the steering stops on my Blackbird too early in the turn with the bars cranked over. I had to foot 3 times to keep from dropping the darn thing. Now, I'm 5'10", right around 196 lbs and am pretty strong and it was all I could do to avoid a fall.

 

Advise:

You are making some bad decisions about when and where to apply steering lock combined with throttle/brakes. In addition, you need to spend a good deal of time in the parking lot until your low speed skills improve, including zero speed skills. You must put in this time and effort and it should be with an experienced coach who can spot the things you are doing wrong both with the bike and your body and provide advise on how to correct them.

 

I told you I was gonna be a little harsh. Sorry about that. It is meant in the spirit of helping though.

 

Some things to think about.

You came from a VT750, which was low, had pretty wide bars and a bunch of steering lock. Your R bike has none of these. Different technique required to handle the two bikes and therein lies a problem. For some reason, having to do with the dynamics of motorcycle steering, once you touch the stops in a turn, the bike wants to fall into the turn big time. I could get longer winded about this as to why but just knowing about it should suffice for now. It is something to be avoided.

 

I suspect you are carrying a bit of legacy car steering thought and action into your bike riding and that is the root of the problem. Turning the steering more works on a car and, as you have found out, doesn't necessarily work on a bike. Hence the experience you have gained. This is where that parking lot practice comes into play. You need to go back to the MSF basic curriculum and work on starting and stopping in a straight line and then starting off with immediate turns thrown in. A good deal of time spent doing slow speed circles, U-turns and figure 8's is in order as well.

 

As to the hanging it up thing, based on what you have told us, that doesn't really seem like a good option for you. You are more than tall enough to do this, and probably, once your foot heals, more than strong enough. You just need to bring your skilz up to where you can get this done.

 

I won't touch any husband/wife issues, time has proven I have zero skills in that area.

 

My final bit of advise. Keep at it. This is a sport, and a dangerous one at that. Instruction/practice are essential to moving up to the next level and it is difficult to do it alone. Skiing might make a good comparison, novice skiers don't survive long on double diamond slopes. You need instruction and time on the boards before you can handle the nuance of speed control and turns needed to get down difficult terrain. Bikes are no different.

 

Good luck and hang in there, you will "get it".

[Blake]

I have not gotten to ride this bike enough to get to know it much because I just got it 2 months before the last accident that broke my foot.

It seems to me, like someone else mentioned, that your title, as well as the statement above says it all.

 

If you want to ride, ride it and get to know it, and enjoy every bit of it that you can. $hit happens all the time, and to me (IMHO) falling at a stop is far better than falling at speed! Anyone with any kind of compassion would allow you to learn at your own pace and help you out - $hit and all!

 

Good luck..., whatever you decide.

[John Bentall]

The second and third falls sound like panic reactions to situations where you were in conflict with other road users. Letting the clutch out with the bars cranked over is courting disater.

The solutions were respectively; - use the horn and just complete your maneuver and forget the people in the car.

The obvious answer is more practice in the parking lot and riding on the open road, trying to steer clear of high-traffic situations, until your confidence is restored.

DON'T GIVE UP, no matter how much your husband loves you and wants to protect you.

[Jim Moore]

I vote for a smaller bike and more practice. An FZ-6, SV-650, 500 Ninja, 750 KnightHawk. There are tons of good bikes out there. Then mark off an area in a parking lot 70 ft by 24 ft. That's the size of the U-turn box in the MSF ERC course. You can mark it with cut-in-half tennis balls. Spend the day practicing figure 8s in the box. Practice a couple times a week for several months.

[Mike O]

You didn't say how comfortable you were riding the VT750 but the differences in weight in your previous bike (750 cruiser) and the R1150R is less than 25 lbs. However, you're spot on with respect to WHERE the weight is carried. With over a gallon more fuel, and the more sport oriented configuration (compared to the lower cruiser-style) the R bike will surely feel more top heavy at low (parking lot speed). If you feel you can manage a lighter bike, then by all means try a smaller lighter sport bike.

 

And as Fernando said, there are seat options, etc. that will improve the comfort for an R1150RT passenger.

 

I would also ask my doctor when he felt it was 'ok' to place 'bike managing' weight back on that foot.

 

Good luck.

 

Mike O

[DouglasR]

DON'T GIVE UP! Gawd, I'd hate to count the number of times I've dumped a bike in the 44 years I've been riding.... I have about a million hours of dirt riding, so am very comfortable with all aspects of riding under all kinds of conditions, and I've still dropped my RT and GS several times. It happens, sorry you got "pinned", but that's no reason to give up something you love. Just analyze what is happening, find a different way to deal with it that has a better outcome, and ride ride ride! As in all things, training and practice increase your skills and comfort level and it just takes time and more practice to get better. And wear good m/c boots along with your other safety gear!

 

I know some on this Board have mixed feelings about Ride Like a Pro Video Instruction , but I bought a copy of RLAP For the Ladies for my wife and copies of the guy version for a friend and my son. There are some really really good tips about low-speed handling in there. I believe the instruction is well worth the money.

 

These are big, heavy bikes for a reason - they are fantastically stable and manageable at speed. Lighter bikes get pushed around more on the open highway and I think that's much more dangerous than learning new tricks to manage the weight at low speeds.

 

My vote (since you asked ) is to ride MORE, not less, and learn new skills! I hope you'll try the videos, they seriously helped the folks I gave them to. And even with 44 years of experience, I learned some new tricks from them myself.

 

You GO, Girl!

 

Doug

[Jake]

Sheila -

 

Shovel Ed's post resonates most with my view. It's not so much the bike as it is the rider. You would likely have faced similar outcomes on most any bike given what you described.

 

I encourage you not to give up, and I also encourage you to read this . It's a faq written for shorter riders, and though you are not at all inseam challenged, there is some good advice in there. Once taken with a healthy dose of practice, you will get your confidence back. You might even win your husband's confidence too!

[Miriam]

Sheila,

 

I too agree with Ed, it’s not the bike. I’m 5.5 / 125 and ride a 12GS without major issues. I can’t flatfoot so I’m careful where and how I park, but I do put it up on the CS even if I have to take it off standing next to it. The other thing I do is practice, a lot. At no-speed it’s a high and heavy bike for me. I work out (upper body) I do (weekly) parking lot slow maneuver training, practice (emergency) braking and balance and take at least one advanced rider course a year.

 

In my experience the unfortunate thing with a lot of us girls is that we respond more profoundly emotional to any fall or mishap (where guys mostly just shrug their shoulders and forget about it). Then it’s ingrained in the limbic brain and fear is triggered easily when in similar situations making you do the very thing you’re most desperate not to do. The way out is to build confidence by building skill. This takes some (stubborn) perseverance but if you love it enough, you’ll do it and that’s how you’ll know whether or not you should quit!

 

[Laura]

There's more to handling a larger bike that just leg length, weight an strength.

 

There is experience, skill and confidence. My advice is to not give up however, I vote for a smaller bike until you build these levels.

 

If your husband wants you to give up riding on your own perhaps he can either modify the RT to make it more comfortable for you or buy another model bike that suits you both.

 

Chosing to ride your R1100R because it's that or nothing just doesn't make sense or seem safe.

 

What's your gut telling you?

[Knifemaker]

Practice and saddle time is what you need most when you are physically able.I do have a question though....Do you have ANY reluctance or fears when you are attempting low speed moves? Does your stomach tighten up or do you feel uncomfortable in parking lot situations? If you do... this is what you also need to face along with the practice...Face any possible fears you have because we all have had or have them riding a motorcycle...These fears can keep us from facing with confidence the practice we all must have to ride and control the motorcycle.Facing the fear will also allow us to make better judgements on how, when and what we should be riding in terms of a motorcycle. Just because you may love your motorcycle does not mean it is the best machine for you.

 

Relax and enjoy the experience but be smart in your experiences.

[KCSheila]

I can't thank you ALL enough for your great advice. I agree that my parking lot skills get me every time and I DO need to do more than "brush up" on them. I have a good place to practice not far from my house.

 

My husband read my post today and corrected me a bit. He said that if I was riding my own bike, he had no plans to modify it, but IF I found out I was unable to ride my own for whatever reason, he WOULD be willing to modify his bike. Wanted to throw that in so he didn't sound like a villan.

\

As far as the condition of my foot, at this time, I don't have the "go ahead" from my Dr. to ride yet. I was wearing very sturdy BMW boots during the fall and we always gear up for safety when we ride. As a matter of fact, looking at the boots, you can barely tell I had to drag them from under the pegs (didn't get all the weight off my foot with my leverage trick).

 

How much weight I can bear, at this time is a huge question. I go in a week from today and am going to ask that question to the Dr.

 

WHEN I can ride again, I am going to remove my bags, since that right one has taken a beating so far. We have a replacement cover for it, but my husband would prefer to wait to put it on, for obvious reasons. We also had some cylinder head covers installed so I don't beat them to death.

 

I can not thank you enough for every post I have read here. It would break my heart to not be able to ride again, and everyone who rides and enjoys it can understand why. I will keep re-reading this information and welcome any new ideas that pop into someone's head.

 

Don't be concerned about sounding harsh or stern in any way, I appreciate your experience in whatever form it comes.

 

Thanks again, so much!!!!!!!

[Jake]

If I may, I'd like to suggest you leave the bags on when you are ready. Better to scratch a beat-up side case, rather than a beautiful bike!

[MrBee]

There are some physical things happening that your not used too. I have just purchased a R1200RT. I have been riding a Honda Pacific Coast for 18 years. I noticed the more vertical fork angle right away. With my Honda, slow moves with the steering turned all the way to lock position was stable. With the BMW the same is not at all stable. At the lock position the bike is not stable and I would call it tippy! When you start to let out the clutch, the front wheel is turned so much and unstable, the bike tends to lean to one side or the other very quickly. Thus, the low speed fall. I most noticed this when backing up the bike at low speeds. All the advice here is good. I suggest you try not to turn lock to lock and keep the front wheel a bit more straight. You will probally have to do multiple turns rather than one. But at least it will feel in control.

[Mike]

I'll jump on board with Jake and Ed. The correct response is not to give up something you love doing, but rather to correct the problem. And just to add to the chorus of those who have already admitted this, I have also flubbed low-speed turns on occasion. A couple of times, thankfully in the somewhat distant past, the bike has gone down. More recently, I've been able to catch it.

 

Your weight and size are a bit of a factor, in the sense that a big oaf like me might have a better chance of catching it if it hasn't gone too far. But the fact of the matter is that there are few people who can rescue the fall of a 400 - 500 lb. motorcycle once it starts tipping. So, while size is a factor, the ultimate problem is that you've been screwing up in low-speed situations.

 

Here's where some tough self-assessment comes into play. Do you have the right set of mental and emotional skills to handle a motorcycle? A lack of self-confidence can generally be overcome with time and experience, but if you're not willing to assert control over the motorcycle and assume responsibility for building your skills, your husband may be right. Also, if you're someone who's easily flustered, your husband may be right. I don't get this sense from your posts, but there are some people whose personalities are just not suited to motorcycling. It's something to think about; I'm sure that your husband is speaking out of genuine concern and he probably has a pretty good handle on your quirks and capabilities.

 

But let's assume you're a together chick with decent physical skills, who's not easily flustered. Given your description of the events leading up to your falls, it's clear that you haven't built the skills to handle the heavier motorcycle you're now riding. You could go back to a smaller machine--and that may be part of what is ultimately the correct answer for you--but you still need to work on your low-speed skills.

 

Ed's suggestion about finding a coach for these skills is a good one. Someone who's a motor cop or who teaches motor cops would be the ideal type of coach--they're the masters of low-speed riding.

 

I'll add something else: find yourself a big old empty parking lot where you can work on this stuff, and don't stop working on it after a few minutes or a couple of hours. Do it every week, maybe even every day, if you can find the time. You should work on slow-speed maneuvers. Your starts and stops, and riding in a straight line at the slowest speed you can remain upright are a good start. You might spend a day or two working on just these skills alone. After that, try making some turns in the lot, decreasing the radius as you develop comfidence. Then work your way up to figure eights, turns from a standstill, etc.

 

Remember while you're doing this the fundamental mistake that caused your crashes--heavy front brake application with the handlebars cranked. That's a scenario that will cause even the toughest muscle-bound horse of a man to crash. Don't do it. In the low-speed stuff, especially in low-speed turns, your rear brake is all you'll need.

 

I think, Sheila, that you can work past this. I wouldn't urge you to give up riding, but rather to work on your skills. If ultimately you feel better about riding a smaller motorcycle, make the trade. Just don't fool yourself into thinking that downsizing will in any way relieve you of the need to work on your own motorcyling abilities.

[eddd]

You MUST listen to your husband. Afterall, he is a man, and when was the last time a man was wrong???

 

Seriously, you've received some very good advice. Personally, I'd take a multi-step approach:

 

1. Get completed healed.

2. Get some advice on strenghtening exercises and do those.

3. Look for a bike that is easier for you to handle.

4. Put some nice large "engine guards" on that bike. These can go a long way to preventing the type of injury you sustained.

5. Practice, practice, practice the types of low speed manuevers that are giving you problems.

6. Enjoy riding NEXT to your husband, not BEHIND him.

[Mike]

Me again. I just read your post from last August, when you were looking for help with your transition to the BMW. You wrote:

 

I think I am being VERY hesitant about using that rear brake in the slow moving situations because I seem uncomfortable with it for some reason.

 

I'll just reiterate that I think this is a big part of your problem, and something you need to overcome. Once you unlearn your habit of hitting the front brakes when you've got the handlebars turned at low speed, you'll be 90% of the way there. Happy riding!

[mefly2]

I guess that I must part with the majority and suggest that you curb your desire to ride as the pilot until your foot heals almost completely. The very small fine motor control in the (hands and) feet which are required for safe operation of the bike have been compromised due to the accident. It is not just a safety issue for you, but also for those around you.

 

I am sure that you can recount the number of times that the bike started to lean just a little too much while at a complete stop and you needed just that small amount of extra push from the ball of the foot to stop the excessive lean and prevent the imminent "fall over" ... we have all been there! Flatfooting is stable at a stop, but you need the fine motor control (during dynamic maneuvering) which comes from the ball of the foot when taking off or turning from a stop.

 

After your MD and/or PT give you the green light that the healing and recuperation are complete ... then attempt the practice which helps us all. In the mean time, enjoy the view from the rear seat ... you really do NOT know what uncomfortable is until you have been strapped into a military cockpit for hours on end ... where stretching and stepping off are not an option. Enjoy the pillon time and your significant other ... just $02 ... but it was free!

[Ken H.]

All good advice. I'll thow one other thought in here that I don't think as been mentioned... Get more familuar with your clutch's friction zone.

 

'Poping' the clutch, or even easing it out with a lot of RPM, while at turning lock is a recipe for a dump over that many of us are familuar with. You'd be suprise with practice at how little clutch engagement, even at idle or just above, it takes to begin a roll as the handlbars straighten up. OTOH a sudden full engagement and over we go! BTDT.

[tallman]

I'd guess that the front brake was involoved too.

Time for practice.

Then more practice.

Reading, Proficient Motorcycling , David Hough.

Videos, already a good recommendation made.

Practice some more.

When the parking lot maneuvers are second nature, then venture out a bit.

Also, I'd try to avoid some of these uphill/downhill/sidehill situations to begin with.

Be more circumspect about where you park.

Anticipate exit routes in advance.

Stop instead of turning handlebars, if possible (which it should be in slow/low speed parking/stop situations.

Pratice, get comfortable.

Most folks have BTDT too.

Best wishes.

[bross]

Jodie was riding a BMW F650GS two years ago but wanted a bike with a little more protection. She demo'd and fell in love with the RT. She did fine on her demo ride and so we ordered a new RT for delivery in the spring. We rode for 9 hours her first day on the bike and she absolutely loved it. Then we rode in town a couple of times, and she dropped it, then she dropped it again, and finally a 3rd time which totally destroyed her confidence. The RT was the first bike she couldn't flat foot. She started on a Shadow Spirit same as you, then the F650. She didn't even want to ride anymore because she was scared to drop the bike again. She did some research and bought herself a Ninja 650R. It's got a nice comfortable upright riding position, but is very narrow in the seat and she can easily flat foot it, plus it's very light. Bottom line is she loves it, and she smiles every time she rides it, cause her confidence is back up.

 

Maybe it's a girl thing but she would get very upset when she dropped the bike and I would wonder why? It's just a bike, pick it up and let's go. :-) Maybe that's the years of falling over on dirt bikes that's conditioned me, but for me dropping a bike isn't a big deal but for her it was.

 

For Jodie, she knows she needs to be able to flat foot a bike. She couldn't the RT and if she just stopped a little off center and the bike started to go over, it was just too tall and heavy and had too much momentum for her to stop it.

 

Anyway, find a bike that you're comfortable on and can handle easily and ride! I think a few people mentioned as well about slow speed and braking. Just teach yourself to stay away from your front brake at parking lot speeds. No quicker way to dump a bike than to be doing a slow turn into or out of a parking lot etc., get startled by something and grab your front brake. You'll go down every time on any bike. Good luck and ride safe! :-)

[Survived-til-now]

Sheila

 

Just a thought - do you find the clutch lever is a little too far out for your hands - even on setting 1? So the last bit of disengage is a bit of an uncontrolled release?

 

I have taken the adjuster pin out of my clutch lever on both my previous 1150RT and current 1200RT and shaved just a little bit off the lowest setting with a file. I find the lever sits just that bit closer to mean that I can properly control the last bit of let-out - and it it more comfortable.....

 

I also subscribe to the advice that letting out the clutch on full lock is an easy way to drop the bike, better to straighten the bars and re-apply the lock once you are moving, using revs, the clutch and rear brake to control the bike

 

Whatever you decide - don't regret it later

 

Andy

[DouglasR]

Me again. I just read your post from last August, when you were looking for help with your transition to the BMW. You wrote:

 

I think I am being VERY hesitant about using that rear brake in the slow moving situations because I seem uncomfortable with it for some reason.

 

I'll just reiterate that I think this is a big part of your problem, and something you need to overcome. Once you unlearn your habit of hitting the front brakes when you've got the handlebars turned at low speed, you'll be 90% of the way there. Happy riding!

 

This is called "trail braking" and actually INCREASES stability of the bike at low speed! Slightly trailing the rear brake counteracts the propensity to fall into the lean when turning hard at low speed. It's an old dirt riding technique that translates very well to the street. Whoozit goes into it at length in the Ride Like a Pro videos. "Touch the front brake and you're goin' DOWN!"

 

Ride, ride, ride!!!

 

Doug

 

P.S. Hi Miriam! Long time no chat!

[bross]

Whoozit goes into it at length in the Ride Like a Pro videos. "Touch the front brake and you're goin' DOWN!"

 

Ride, ride, ride!!!

 

Doug

 

P.S. Hi Miriam! Long time no chat!

I'll second the Ride like Pro videos, get one, watch it and practice, practice, practice. You'll be comfortable in no time.

[AviP]

All good advice. I'll thow one other thought in here that I don't think as been mentioned... Get more familuar with your clutch's friction zone.

 

'Poping' the clutch, or even easing it out with a lot of RPM, while at turning lock is a recipe for a dump over that many of us are familuar with. You'd be suprise with practice at how little clutch engagement, even at idle or just above, it takes to begin a roll as the handlbars straighten up. OTOH a sudden full engagement and over we go! BTDT.

2 of your falls seem to be because you released the clutch too fast. I'd take Ken's advice. I'm 5'9", 150 lbs with a 32" inseam and I have droppped my RT once while releasing the clutch too fast because I wanted to wave goodbye to someone. Silly things happen to anyone.

 

I'd take Ken's advice above. Get familiar with the clutch.

 

Also, why don't you check out a bike with a lower seat. Most people with a 30" inseam are at the limits on most Euro/Japanese bikes. Compare the seat heights of different bikes and match it to your inseam. Then go check it at a dealer. Maybe a BMW is not the right fit for you. Keep an open mind.

[Jake]

 

This is called "trail braking" and actually INCREASES stability of the bike at low speed! Slightly trailing the rear brake counteracts the propensity to fall into the lean when turning hard at low speed. It's an old dirt riding technique that translates very well to the street.

 

Actually, the classic definition of the term "trailbraking" refers to the use of brakes past the turn-in point, and is a technique employed by riders in the Freddie Spencer/Kenny Roberts days. Their bikes had fairly flexible front forks, and they would briefly and firmly apply their front brakes to shorten the wheelbase, thus assisting with a more rapid turn in than was otherwise attainable with a "settled" chassis.

 

Through misuse and misunderstanding, the term has evolved into much what you describe above - which is quite the opposite of the original technique!

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Let me jump back in here again.

You will not die if you apply the front brake in a low speed turn and you don't even have to fall over. You do need to be able to judge how much brake you are applying and learn, again through practice, just what its effects may be on the bike.

 

I will also state that it takes almost no leg or foot strength to maintain a bike upright at a stop or when starting out. What it does take is the ability to come to a stop, or start out, IN BALANCE. This is another skill and requires coaching and practice to learn. I often don't put my feet down at all at a stop light. I also, almost every time, pick up my feet and place them on the pegs before moving more than a foot or so. Is this dangerous? No, it is a skill I have developed. I can't do the stop thing every time but I can go as slowly as you can walk without having to put my feet down and when I do, it is no more than a tap of a toe. BTW, the secret to all this is not a sense of balance but has more to do with your eyes and where you are looking when you stop. You have all heard the expression "your bike will go where you look", right? Don't look at the ground.

[RideTN]

try a suzuki burgman 650 and leave him in the dust!!!

[Quinn]

Would it help you to go down to the Harley dealer and rent a 500cc Buell motorcycle to practice the figure 8's? Is the sitting position simular enough to carry over to the BMW? I'd rather drop their bike than mine. It might be a good intermediate step until you get your skill level back up.

 

By the way,getting out of my basement garage,I have to back down a gravel driveway and get turned around enough to be able to start off on the uphill last part. When I use the front brake while duck walking backwards, I pretty much have to keep the front wheel straight or it wants to dive. Going forward is even worse. It's almost like there is a go-no go turn angle on the handlebars.

[Laney]

We're about the same size, and I found the R bikes a little top heavy and easy to drop. But - if I would have given it up after the third drop, I'd have missed nearly 100,000 good miles!

 

I agree with everyone that suggested a smaller bike for a while - and I credit my time with my SV650 in the parking lot as pushing me past quite a few of my own personal hurdles. (And I'm not done with hurdles yet... ) I also found the levers on my RT difficult to deal with smaller hands - and nearly impossible with bulky gloves.

 

Later on if you want something bigger, your R experience will have taught you what feels uncomfortable, and you'll probably make a choice that really fits.

 

(And besides, that - guys hardly ever know what they're talking about!!! )

[gottago]

There are two kinds of motorcyclists. One that has dropped their bike and one that is going too. With that said I started on a GS and can touch flat footed when I scoot to the front of the seat. I've dropped mine a few times but chalked it up to learning process. I did put crash bars on it which protected it and me when I've had to lay it down because I couldn't hold it. I did about a zillion squats to increase my leg strength. I've practiced, practiced, practiced slow maneuvers and will always continue to do so. My advice if you love the bike keep at it (if Dr says okay). I doubt Ardys Kellerman can hold that big ole RT up once it passes a certain point. The key to her success is not to get in the situation in the first place. Good luck..hope you keep at it.

[DouglasR]

I doubt Ardys Kellerman can hold that big ole RT up once it passes a certain point.

 

I'm pretty strong too and I know for a fact I can't keep either my RT or the GS up after it tips beyond "the point of no return". Especially when loaded! I got both left and right drops taken care of in one maneuver with the RT - home from a long ride, very tired, thought I'd just put that baby on the centerstand without bothering with the intermediate step of the sidestand. Dump it to the right. Eeeek! Run ournd to that side, use the proper tecnique to pick it up and.... forgot to put the kickstand down, dumped it to the left. Right in my own driveway at a dead stop. Duh.

 

I guess I should have more correctly said, "trailing the rear brake" helps with low speed stability.... Thanks for the correction! I still enjoy watching the "old guys" like Roger DeCoster ride in old motocross footage, those guys did amazing things with some marginal bikes.

 

Whooozit from RLAP is also very very big on the "friction zone" of your clutch. Since BMWs have dry clutches (like in a car), you can't "ride" the clutch like you can in other bikes with "wet" clutches, but you certainly can use the friction zone without damaging the Beemer clutch.

 

The Lesson: build your skills; it's not the bike's fault! I'm 5'8" and 160 pounds and my GS feels like a pig when stopped, but rides like a bicycle when it's rolling! You can do it!

[KCSheila]

This is the greatest discussion board. I have gotten a world of great advice from here. I spoke with my instructor from my original rider's safety course today. As suggested many times on this board, I need to have Dr.'s approval that I am capable of even trying to ride. My instuctor suggested that IF I got that approval (not so sure I will, like I said, I have spring fever but the Dr. may have his own ideas), that I should get back out on their bikes because they weigh around 250 pounds and work my way back up. He even agreed to set up the range for me to practice the slow speed skills during their off hours if I call him in advance. Other advice is that I may need to ride in a special type of brace/boot that will make up for any deficiency that may stay with me for life. Heck, I am not giving up after a spill or two, but I DO need to make sure I am healed enough to get back out there. I am still reading and re-reading your posts and am finding them to be my most valuable input and I can not thank you all enough for your concern and excellent advice. Most of all, thanks for caring so much for someone you don't even know. I will keep you updated. I see the Dr. again on Wed. and he has been out on vacation. Pray that I don't have to miss another riding season for that one costly mistake.

 

I have never been one to roll over and die when things got tough and I am going to give it all I have to get back on "some bike". If I find out the R1100R is not going to work for me, I will make a switch. My husband met a man with an artificial leg and he still rides, I think about him these days and it does give me hope.

 

If you come up with more suggestions, please respond. My husband is somewhat tired of my endless "do I or do I not" because I have droned it to death. I would like to give him a break and have someone else to bounce ideas with.

[bross]

This is the greatest discussion board. I have gotten a world of great advice from here. I spoke with my instructor from my original rider's safety course today. As suggested many times on this board, I need to have Dr.'s approval that I am capable of even trying to ride. My instuctor suggested that IF I got that approval (not so sure I will, like I said, I have spring fever but the Dr. may have his own ideas), that I should get back out on their bikes because they weigh around 250 pounds and work my way back up. He even agreed to set up the range for me to practice the slow speed skills during their off hours if I call him in advance. Other advice is that I may need to ride in a special type of brace/boot that will make up for any deficiency that may stay with me for life. Heck, I am not giving up after a spill or two, but I DO need to make sure I am healed enough to get back out there. I am still reading and re-reading your posts and am finding them to be my most valuable input and I can not thank you all enough for your concern and excellent advice. Most of all, thanks for caring so much for someone you don't even know. I will keep you updated. I see the Dr. again on Wed. and he has been out on vacation. Pray that I don't have to miss another riding season for that one costly mistake.

 

I have never been one to roll over and die when things got tough and I am going to give it all I have to get back on "some bike". If I find out the R1100R is not going to work for me, I will make a switch. My husband met a man with an artificial leg and he still rides, I think about him these days and it does give me hope.

 

If you come up with more suggestions, please respond. My husband is somewhat tired of my endless "do I or do I not" because I have droned it to death. I would like to give him a break and have someone else to bounce ideas with.

Forgot to mention in my post, make sure you get a pair of good riding boots, not just leather but with some armor in the ankle area etc.

 

Something like this...

 

or this

 

Not this...

[Ken H.]

Shelia,

 

If you two want to get together with us two some time and talk through all of these ideas some time, give a shout! We'll meet you for dinner, or a beer or something somewhere.

[TyTass]

Not this...

 

Not this? These are the very boots I wear! They make my calves look really nice! Especially when wearing a skirt (btw: guys can too wear skirts!)

[KCSheila]

Ken-that sounds great to us. We are somewhat in the same neighborhood.

 

I had to laugh at those women's boots. No offense intended, but I have had some pretty creative names for those kinds of "motorcyle boots" more fit for a bar than riding.

 

I have been wearing BMW boots and I can't find a name on them. They do have the armour in the ankle section. Gosh, if not for that, I might have had more broken bones. That is the most important thing to us, gearing up properly. In the summer, we throw on the mesh tex and in the winter I have a Revit jacket I like and wear First Gear HT overpants. All our gear has armour.

 

That was good advise though. I have seen plenty of women riding in those cutsie boots and, though they are better than tennis shoes, they aren't enough. When we go riding, I don't really care which gender I resemble, safety first. I give those boots I was wearing a lot of credit for saving me more injury when those pegs slammed down on my foot. My husband and I just got them out to look at them and though I had to drag my foot out because it was still partially pinned, there is barely a mark on them. I totally agree with your advice and appreciate it.

[pmdave]

I may have missed it, but I don't recall you mentioning whether your R has power assisted brakes. The "standard" R1100R and R1150R had independent brakes. The high zoot models had either fully integrated or partially integrated power assisted brakes. Each of those types requires a different technique for braking and slow speed turns.

 

If your bike has independent front-rear brakes, or partially integrated power brakes, the technique for slow speed maneuvers is to dab on a little rear brake, and let the engine pull against it. If the bike starts to fall over in a tight turn, adding some throttle pulls it up again.

 

But if your bike has fully integrated power brakes, you don't dare use any brake, because the power assist (especially on the older models) tends to slam on both brakes, and when the bike suddenly stops it falls over. This is a shock for even veteran riders who are in the (otherwise correct) habit of dabbing on a little rear brake, say for a U-turn. Even after more than a million miles and 40 years of riding, I wouldn't own a bike with integrated power brakes.

 

The advice to do some practice on a smaller, lower bike is sound, but whatever bike you choose to ride you need to know how to control it skillfully.

 

Let's note that it isn't your feet that keep the bike upright when moving, but the steering. If the bike is falling over to the right, you need to steer even more to the right to correct the lean. You have to have enough confidence to use steering and engine power to pull the bike up, and resist the urge to squeeze the clutch and stick your foot out. While you're learning, bear in mind that a few broken bike parts are cheaper than a few broken foot parts. If the @#$%& thing wants to fall over, step off and get out of the way. If you don't quite get this "countersteering" business, I suggest you study the book Proficient Motorcycling.

 

While it might seem that dragging your feet on the ground would help balance, it does not. As soon as the bike begins to move, your boots should go to the pegs--and that helps stabilize balance. When stopping, your right foot should be on the rear brake and your left foot should support the bike. If the bike is rolling away it's hard to hold it up. Holding on the rear brake keeps it stationary, and leaned slightly toward the left. And it's a lot easier to get the bike balanced at a stop if you steer it into a slight left lean as you come to a stop.

 

As others have noted, confidence comes from skill, and skill comes from practice. If you find slow speed maneuvers difficult, THATs what you need to practice. I suggest when you're ready to ride again you set up both an expanding cone weave and a "figure-8" box, and practice until you can do tight turns with ease. The good news is that you can start with a large figure 8 box and then gradually pull in the cones. To start, try something about 30 x 70 feet. Then gradually work it down to 20 x 60 or maybe even 15 x 40.

 

Earlier models of the R oilhead motor had surging problems, and some do cough and die in the middle of a U turn, so it might not be you. If your engine tends to buck and surge at lower RPMs, that makes tight turns much harder. If yours tends to do this, one technique is to slip the clutch enough to keep engine revs up, say 1,500 to 2,000 RPM. You must ease out enough clutch to keep the engine pulling, and that's where dragging a little rear brake helps keep things in control. Yes, your clutch will complain and smell a bit if you keep doing this for a while.

 

If you don't think you can practice the Figure 8 on the oilhead, then buy or borrow a smaller, lighter bike and practice on that. The point is, the same skills of countersteering, braking, slipping the clutch, and controlling balance are pretty much the same for all sizes of two wheelers. Once you gain the skills, it's clear that it's NOT body strength that keeps the bike upright.

 

pmdave

[KCSheila]

EXCELLENT post! We don't think this bike does have power assisted brakes. We are thinking they didn't do that until after the 1999 models. We personally know my instructor from my first safety course and I spoke with him this week. He said when my doctor gives the ok, I can come up to the range I learned on originally and sort of start over on one of their lighter bikes. We aren't too sure how much pressure my foot can take at this point and I will see the doctor on Wed to check that out. Everything you said was true and I truly believe that I never developed those slow maneuvering skills well enough and have been lucky to get by because I was riding that shadow cruiser. Another thing, I was using the rear break more with that bike than I had been with my new one for some strange reason. My instructor told me that I can come during the week and hopefully have some one on one instruction and can use their course any time they aren't having classes. He said that after I master what I need to do on their smaller lighter bikes, we can try the ERC on my bike (if the foot is ok). This may take some time, but I will be sure to keep referring back to your post, for it is full of great advice. I have gotten so much help from posting on this forum, that I am overwhelmed with gratitude. I am working out to build up a bit more strength in my legs and arms.

 

I agree that if a bike starts going over my choice is to bail and I did get out of the way the first two times. This last one was on a pretty good incline and when I fell it was down that incline and it happened so fast, barely let out on the clutch, didn't even give it any throttle that I remember and I got slammed straight down. Did have the handlebars cranked all the way to make a tight turn, another mistake.

 

I have had several months to regret that one decision and lots of pain during that time to remind me never to repeat that mistake, believe me. I haven't ridden the bike enough to recall right now how much friction zone I have, how close it is, much about the clutch at all.

 

Weather permitting, I may, with my husband's assistance, do some starts and stops on our driveway. It is long and at slow speed, hopefully he can eyeball anything I am doing and we can work on that rear brake issue, as well. That will be a ways out but I would rather master those skills off road than before I am out there riding with the cages again.

 

You know, as riding goes, I have been told that I adapted to it very quickly and have always handled my bike very well, but maybe they weren't looking too closely at my slow speed moves. Anyway, thank you again, so much for, yet again, another great piece of advice. I am taking them all in, believe me and I am taking them all seriously.