Mistook headlight modulator

[TonyS]

I just got back from a ride in the finally-green local hills (it’s mid morning). Before returning home I wanted to gas up the bike. The station is on the corner of a fairly busy two-lane highway and a cross street that serves the local tribal casino. I was in the left turn lane and waiting to turn left into the gas station whose driveway is before the intersection. There are vehicles coming at me from a lot of directions. The turning cars have all passed and there is a break in the line of traffic coming at me. The lead vehicle was a motorcycle with motolights on the forks. I notice these lights right away and that makes me glad I run the same setup. I keep scanning for traffic from all the other directions and get ready to make my left turn as the rider is slowing down, is in the right side of the lane, and has the turn signal on. I’m starting to turn when I realize the bike is continuing straight. I stop and the traffic passes on by without incident. If I had been in a less patient state of mind I probably would have made the left based on my first assessment. What I read as a turn signal was actually a headlight modulator. The angle of the sun and the bike took away the blazing headlight impact and made me completely misinterpret the visual signal. I’ve ridden/driven enough to know never assume a drivers’ intent. I am still surprised how long it took me to realize the modulator was not a turn signal!

[E30TECH]

Thanks for sharing that.

[Bob Palin]

What I read as a turn signal

 

Why would you ever turn in front of an oncoming vehicle based on the evidence of a small flashing light?

[Mike]

What I read as a turn signal

 

Why would you ever turn in front of an oncoming vehicle based on the evidence of a small flashing light?

 

He didn't.

 

That's a strange bit of visual perception there--the federally-mandated rate of modulation is 240 ± 40 cycles per minute, far faster than any turn signal. Maybe it was just a visual misperception caused by the light, but it could have also been a homemade modulator that wasn't modulating at the prescribed rate.

 

There are some folks on the board who don't like them, believing that the either (a) annoy other motorists or (b) provide a false sense of security. I've used modulators for probably 25 years or more, and my experience has consistently been that motorists tend to give me a significantly wider berth. This is hardly scientific, but it seems evident that I'm either seen better or perceived as a potential danger (?) when I'm running the modulator.

[Bob Palin]

Why would you ever turn in front of an oncoming vehicle based on the evidence of a small flashing light?

He didn't.

The definite implication from his post is that he would/does turn based on an indicator flashing.

[TonyS]

The definite implication from his post is that he would/does turn based on an indicator flashing.

NO! The definite implication is that I would NOT turn in front of a flashing indicator! and this is another example of why not. My left turn was before the intersection; the bike had slowed and pulled to the right as if to turn right, and the modulator was one more indicator during my visual scan that he/she was turning right. Still, I did not pull in front as there was some doubt in my mind. I've been riding motorcycles since 1977 without an accident (even longer driving cars) and have stressed defensive driving when I taught my kids how to drive. My point is if I was one of the many kids I see driving fast around here in their hot pickups that bike might have been toast. The more I play the scenerio back in my mind the more I'm convinced either the high or low beam bulb was burned out on the bike so the modulator was now a flasher and the modulation rate was reduced by half.

[Bob Palin]

NO! The definite implication is that I would NOT turn in front of a flashing indicator!

That isn't obvious from what you wrote, my original purpose in posting was just to put the idea out there that trusting a turn signal is dangerous, I see people do it all the time. I'm not interested in arguing about what you wrote or what you meant, I wasn't intending to criticize you personally. I should have written "Why would anyone...".

[TonyS]

I didn't mean to be so testy in my response. The main purpose of the post was to express my surprise at my initial response to the modulator being a turn indicator, even after I had given the bike enough of an evaluation to recongnize the motolights. We all try so hard to be conspicuous and ride safely. It's interesting to swap rides and look at someone else riding your bike to see if we appear to others as we think we do. At the end of a night ride back from our BMW Riders meeting (about 30 miles) one of the friends I was riding with pointed out my low beam was out. I couldn't even tell as the motolights do all the work. That is probably the case here.

[JayW]

This is another reason why I will never use a modulator. I am in the camp that they annoy other drivers (especially in the rear view mirror), and they definitely make it harder for those in front to perceive a turn signal.

 

I read in one of my magazines (I think it was the AMA mag) about the strategy of slightly swaying back and forth when approaching a car that could turn left in front of you. Just a slight pressure on one foot peg, then the other is all it takes. The effect is to "flash" the headlight across the driver's field of vision, which makes it more likely to get his/her attention. I have now integrated this practice into my own defensive driving routine.

 

Jay

[wsearl]

Sounds like a good reason to install Motolights or similiar rather than a modulator.

[Horse]

I read in one of my magazines (I think it was the AMA mag) about the strategy of slightly swaying back and forth when approaching a car that could turn left in front of you.

 

I teach what I call the 'Z' line:

 

The 'danger zone' starts when you're roughly three seconds away from the junction.

 

At about 4s away, move fairly brisklyf rom your position in the lane towards the side of the lane where the vehicle is waiting, then from 3s - 1s move on a diagonal line away from the vehicle (assumes no other hazards), so that at 1s away you're as far away from the other vehicle as you can be.

 

Two advantages:

1. Moving objects attract attention - by moving across the entire lane width you're moving through as much of the other driver's field of view as possible;

2. You give yourself the biggest gap so the driver has to go further to get you if they're going to try.

 

Just a slight pressure on one foot peg,

 

Why not wiggle the 'bars? Much easier.

[St_Louis_Don]

Tony, a big thanks for that insight!

 

I also run a modulator. My thinking is…if an experienced rider such as yourself could “misinterpret” it as a turn signal. I have no doubt many cagers could/would also.

 

It has been my perception that cagers seem to notice it and show respect. I’ll need to be aware of the possibility of their misinterpretation also.

[steve.foote]

I read in one of my magazines (I think it was the AMA mag) about the strategy of slightly swaying back and forth when approaching a car that could turn left in front of you.

 

Jay, that is a very effective strategy. However, I would change out the word 'slightly' for 'aggressively.' Give the bars a good tug each way to make sure your intentions are obvious. You want the oncoming driver to wonder what the hell you are doing.

[Mike]

One of the things that's interesting about the discussion of motorcycle conspicuity is that there's precious little data about what really works. Those of us who use modulators are convinced that they work and the federal government has even indulged that notion by adopting a Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS) that allows modulators to be used, but I've never seen a scientific study that confirms their efficacy. Likewise, some people here are big believers in the concept of a triangle of lights (like with Motolights), but I've never heard of any study to verify that this aids conspicuity. Ditto the approach of moving across lanes as one approaches another vehicle--lots of people advocate it, but it's pretty much based on a "gut feeling" that this is effective.

 

The only thing that's certain is this: regardless of what methods or technologies you rely on, you can't rely on cagers seeing you.

[Lawman]

Mike,

Couldn't agree with you more..For me it's a red bike, high viz cycleport riding jacket, light colored helmet, amber motolights, and headlight modulater and then assume I'm invisible..

[St_Louis_Don]

++1

That said, I use a modulator, PIAA’s on the cylinder heads for that triangle of light, make a habit of using the Z pattern, and wear one of those Highway Worker day-glow vests. Then I ride as if I were clad in black with no lights.

 

While I agree there is no real data to support these actions make me more visible. I tend to believe they do nothing to make me less visible to others.

[Beemeroil]

If a $100.00 investment in the modulator has even a slight chance of saving your bacon why not give it a try. My experience has been that it makes you more conspicuous and that people do notice you and react to avoid you. As has been mentioned here the boo birds should try it before issuing negative comments.

[E30TECH]

PIAA’s on the cylinder heads for that triangle of light

 

 

can you post a picture of that?

[St_Louis_Don]

I don't have any pics of it. But I used a bracket made by Hawks Products that fasten to the cyl guards of the 1150RT

 

http://www.hawksproducts.com/OwlInstallation.htm

[E30TECH]

I've never seen that before. I sold my 'talon' brackets shown in the one picture.

 

If the bike were to go down, would the light be somewhat protected by the cylinder head?

[St_Louis_Don]

I sort of suspect that the cyl guards will either save the cyl head and the light . OR the guards will fail and the bracket will slice into the cyl head cover and it and the light will be toast .

[myshkin]

Sorry for continuing the hijack, but these cylinder head light brackets are very easy to make in a couple of hours and they won't cost you anywhere near $45 to make yourself.

[lexxol]

I use the modulators on both my bikes. This zig zag thing is just more busy work and most won't do it anyway. Humans don't always remember to do what they should, the modulator works all the time if I remember or not. Watches my back so to speak. We do the best we can. What works for someone else is fine with me.

[AdventurePoser]

I also use modulating deer whistles. They seem to work just fine...haven't hit a deer yet!

 

Steve in So Cal

[E30TECH]

I sort of suspect that the cyl guards will either save the cyl head and the light . OR the guards will fail and the bracket will slice into the cyl head cover and it and the light will be toast .

 

I really like the way those mount....I'll have to give some thought on them. How do you have the light switched -via the signal cancel button?

 

these cylinder head light brackets are very easy to make in a couple of hours and they won't cost you anywhere near $45 to make yourself.

 

I work in a machine shop

 

I also use modulating deer whistles. They seem to work just fine...haven't hit a deer yet!

LOFL

 

 

Sorry for the hijack, but atleast the hijack is about being conspicuous

[St_Louis_Don]

What about Bear Scare’rs? Anyone ever tried them?

[JayW]

If a $100.00 investment in the modulator has even a slight chance of saving your bacon why not give it a try.

 

Because they annoy others on the road, and a modulator makes your front turn signal less visible to those ahead of you. If annoying others out there doesn't matter, then why not tape your horn button down too - after all this would also draw attention to yourself.

 

Don't take the horn comment too seriously - but you get the idea.

 

Jay

[Beemeroil]

I shall count you as one of the boo birds. There is no evidence that use of the modulator masks the turn signal and even if it does, remember it can be turned off when turning or following riders with a sensitivity to the flashing. Again try it and then get back to me.

[leikam]

There is no evidence that use of the modulator masks the turn signal and even if it does, remember it can be turned off when turning or following riders with a sensitivity to the flashing.

 

My experience is that modulators tend to hide the whole front of the bike (including turn signals) as well as the rider. Maybe I'm extra sensitive to light, but I can't see a thing when they're flashing. That means I can't judge distance at all or whether the rider is trying to get my attention. It's as if he's dropped into a black hole. There's no communication possible. Have you considered that people reacting to you in a defensive way might not mean that they are actually seeing you any better? Moreover, I doubt there's any way for you to reliably know whom your lights are bothering so you being able to turn them off is cold comfort.

 

Because of my experience on the "business end" of these lights I have no intention of "trying" a headlight modulator on my bike. In my view they have more than a passing similarity to loud pipes. But, hey, they (might) save lives so that makes it all OK.

[AviP]

This is another reason why I will never use a modulator. I am in the camp that they annoy other drivers (especially in the rear view mirror), and they definitely make it harder for those in front to perceive a turn signal.

I'm not a headlight modulator fan either. As much as feasible, I ride as if I'm invisible. Having my roots in India helped me in that aspect because disobeying driving rules is the norm.

[Laura]

Thanks for sharing.

 

I've stopped using my foglights as they shake when moving and seem to modulate. I had a few instances where driver's thought I was blinking them to go. I now us my highbeam instead.

[Ken H.]

a modulator makes your front turn signal less visible to those ahead of you.

Why would you think a modulator mask turn signals more so than a constant on high beam? After all, the total averaged brightness of a modulated beam is less than that of a constant one. I don't get your logic.

 

I think there is a place for them and a place not for them, that's why I can turn mine on and off at will.

[Green RT]

I'm not a headlight modulator fan either. As much as feasible, I ride as if I'm invisible. Having my roots in India helped me in that aspect because disobeying driving rules is the norm.

 

I think assuming you won't be seen is far the safest course. No matter what you do to make yourself visible, it won't help if the drivers don't look, and that is often the case. At the risk of going a slightly off thread...

I was running on Sunday, when I came across a car turning from a side street onto the street where I was about to cross his path. It was bright sunny day; I was wearing red shorts and a red polypro shirt with contrasting large white bars on the sleeves. I stopped about 6 feet from the driver, just out of his path. He was turning right and looking left. He never saw me until he was halfway through the turn, when he finally decided it was time to look where he was going. He only missed me by about six inches and it gave him a real shock, which was my intent. Maybe next time he will think about pedestrians, but I have no illusions that it will permanently improve his driving. No matter how visible you are, it won't help if they don't look, and they won't.

[Irish1]

I do that: sway back and forth a bit when I'm concerned someone in a cage isn't likely to see me. NOT sure it's the safest maneuver: hit a diesel spill mid-sway and crash? I started riding again 6 months ago after 30 years away and I'm terrified I'm going to get picked off on the highway or by a person pulling out. I've considered the modulator, but concerned about radically shortening bulb life and causing some vindictive yahoo to go postal on me when he/she realizes I'm not a Federale..

This is another reason why I will never use a modulator. I am in the camp that they annoy other drivers (especially in the rear view mirror), and they definitely make it harder for those in front to perceive a turn signal.

 

I read in one of my magazines (I think it was the AMA mag) about the strategy of slightly swaying back and forth when approaching a car that could turn left in front of you. Just a slight pressure on one foot peg, then the other is all it takes. The effect is to "flash" the headlight across the driver's field of vision, which makes it more likely to get his/her attention. I have now integrated this practice into my own defensive driving routine.

 

Jay

[lexxol]

Not directing this to anyone in particular.

This is the same logic as the which foot do you put down when you stop thread.

[JayW]

Why would you think a modulator mask turn signals more so than a constant on high beam? After all, the total averaged brightness of a modulated beam is less than that of a constant one. I don't get your logic.

 

The problem is that they are both flashing, and oncoming drivers might fail to see a turn signal because the headlight is brighter, thereby drawing attention away from the relatively dim signal bulb. I have definitely noticed it myself when looking at the modulating front end of a signaling motorcycle coming toward me - the flashing signal is competing for my attention vs a much brighter flashing headlight. The fact that they flash at different frequencies helps separate them a little, but it is not the same as one flashing in isolation.The problem is magnified further if the signal bulb is physically close to the headlight.

 

I would encourage you to look for an opportunity to observe this for yourself, then make up your own mind.

 

Jay

[Couchrocket]

I had a similar experience, in which I almost pulled out directly in front of a fire enigne going red lights and siren. I mistook the air horn for rap music, the red lights for stationary Christmas lights, and the siren for UFO's flying overhead.

[lexxol]

[JayW]

I do that: sway back and forth a bit when I'm concerned someone in a cage isn't likely to see me. NOT sure it's the safest maneuver: hit a diesel spill mid-sway and crash?

 

Yes, but think about how those flailing limbs and flying motorcycle parts would increase your visibility - and isn't that the whole point here?

[fnyrt]

a modulator makes your front turn signal less visible to those ahead of you.

Why would you think a modulator mask turn signals more so than a constant on high beam?

my experience (and/or vision) has been that when approaching a motorcycle with a modulator, i find it more difficult to determine the distance and rate of closure.

[Mike]

I've considered the modulator, but concerned about radically shortening bulb life and causing some vindictive yahoo to go postal on me when he/she realizes I'm not a Federale..

 

The modulator manufacturers claim that they don't reduce bulb life--a modulator designed to U.S. specs doesn't completely power off the bulb. Rather, it modulates between full and partial intensity (like around 30%). I haven't noted any problem with reduced bulb life. Can't help you with the vindictive yahoos, though.

[Deadboy]

I am in the modulators bad camp myself...I have ridden with them, (my headlight bulb did burn out in what I felt was a premature time frame) and also seen them coming towards me, and I find them not only distracting but also agree it is very difficult to determine what the hell the rider is doing, and what speed they are traveling at. My personal experience has lead me to run my integrated fog lights (R1150RT) and motolights all the time....I was amazed at the difference it made, especially when lane splitting....cars seems to see me coming a little sooner and give me that extra bit of room...oncoming vehicles have (so far) not been a problem....

[Rocket_Cowboy]

The modulator manufacturers claim that they don't reduce bulb life--a modulator designed to U.S. specs doesn't completely power off the bulb. Rather, it modulates between full and partial intensity (like around 30%). I haven't noted any problem with reduced bulb life. Can't help you with the vindictive yahoos, though.

 

Mike, is there a particular modulator manufacturer that you might tend to recommend for the R12RT? I've previously held off doing any kind of modulator installs on previous bikes, but I think it's time I give a modulator a try.

[subvet]

Loud pipes save lives.

 

[Lawman]

The modulator manufacturers claim that they don't reduce bulb life--a modulator designed to U.S. specs doesn't completely power off the bulb. Rather, it modulates between full and partial intensity (like around 30%). I haven't noted any problem with reduced bulb life. Can't help you with the vindictive yahoos, though.

 

Mike, is there a particular modulator manufacturer that you might tend to recommend for the R12RT? I've previously held off doing any kind of modulator installs on previous bikes, but I think it's time I give a modulator a try.

 

Kisan..

[moshe_levy]

A few interesting points made, both pro and con. I am pro, myself. Comments...

 

Bulb life is shortened : While this used to be true many years ago, most modern modulators (I use Kisan Technologies) use a soft-switching technique to regulate the current flow (usually from 15% “off” to 100% “on”) through the bulb filament during operation. This type of design eliminates the "thermal shock" filaments suffered through with older-design modulators, which operated by maintaining a constant small voltage and abruptly hammering current through the bulb to cause the flashing. Personally, after 6 years of modulation I’ve gone through one headlight bulb - and that was on my old Harley Sportster, where vibration was in abundance to put it kindly.

 

Modulators annoy other drivers Perhaps, but to be annoyed, you must notice something to be annoyed by. That's the point, I think. Modulators are legal, unlike loud pipes, so I don't see a connection there. And, even if you're right about that aspect of annoying other motorists, consider that you don't HAVE to modulate the bright high beam. You can modulate any beam you want, including the low beam, for a more subtle but still noticeable effect. That's what I did here http://www.mklsportster.com/r1150rtkisan.htm with excellent results.

 

Finally, I too lament that we haven't had a major motorcycle safety study since the 1981 Hurt report. Much has changed since then, both good and bad for us. It's time for some new research!

 

-MKL

[Mike]

The modulator manufacturers claim that they don't reduce bulb life--a modulator designed to U.S. specs doesn't completely power off the bulb. Rather, it modulates between full and partial intensity (like around 30%). I haven't noted any problem with reduced bulb life. Can't help you with the vindictive yahoos, though.

 

Mike, is there a particular modulator manufacturer that you might tend to recommend for the R12RT? I've previously held off doing any kind of modulator installs on previous bikes, but I think it's time I give a modulator a try.

 

 

 

Kisan. They'll have a plug and play solution for your RT. On my ST, it was just a matter of figuring out where to plug it in--once I deciphered that, it only took a few minutes to install, mostly to drill a hole in the upper fairing for the placement of the light sensor.

[leikam]

The similarity is that in both cases the rider is modifying his bike in way that annoys some percent of others nearby and justifies it by saying that he is more noticable and therefore safer. Whether one or the other is legal/illegal has nothing to do with the parallel being drawn.

 

The rest of this is a lot about me and others have different reactions to headlight modulators, but I do hope that those who see no downside will consider that I'm not the only one who thinks this way:

 

Simply being noticed is not enough for me while riding. I want my speed and direction to be seen accurately. I want people to notice my intentions, communicated via turn signals, hand signals, a turn of the head, other body language or the position of the bike. The point of me being seen is so that other people have the best chance at making a decision that is good for me. If I blind them, I deny them information about my intentions. If I annoy them, I risk their goodwill. If I'm going to deny them both, I might as well go into stealth mode.

 

Adopting the other position, if I'm driving and you're riding behind me with a modulator, I'm going to adjust my mirror so that I don't see you at all. I take action to remove you from my field of vision; you become less conspicuous.

[Mike]

So, we'll count that as a "for" vote, right?

[leikam]

Absolutely, but I really think that before too long, people will go back to getting attention by poking each other with pointy sticks. What could be more noticable?

 

(I'm working on a pointy-stick-mounting-bracket for BMWs that I hope to patent.)