A Video and Analysis of Lee's Accident on the Cherohala

[oldtime]

Happy B'Day Lee and wishes for a speedy recovery

 

[Patallaire]

Wow! An impressive and freightening view of a real time accident. Judgement from all in the spirit of analysis helps us all work through the "What If's", for ourselves. Not to judge what the rider actually did or saw in his mind's eye. Only he knows that, we can only "Monday Morning Quarterback", hopefully we will remember our judgement if we are confronted with a similar situation.

From the film, it looked like a big decreasing radius turn with turn offs that could cause confusion, but having never riden past there it is just a judgement. I recall having a moment of confusion when I went under the bridge for the first time at a speed that was fast to me at Road Atlanta, saw Horizon and 2 different pit roads and the main track, my mind froze and as I was processing, I went toward the pit road on the left and had to make this awful/awkward correction. Mind freezes play dangerous tricks.

It is good that Lee is all right, lets all take something from his misfortune and not judge his mind freeze.

[David]

I recall having a moment of confusion when I went under the bridge for the first time at a speed that was fast to me at Road Atlanta, saw Horizon and 2 different pit roads and the main track, my mind froze and as I was processing, I went toward the pit road on the left and had to make this awful/awkward correction. Mind freezes play dangerous tricks.

 

Boy, that sure brought back memories! I've spent four days at Road Atlanta on a motorcycle over the last year, and I clenched just reading that!

 

Lee, I hope you are on the path to a speedy recovery. Our best wishes are with you. I want to apologize for how some of this has come across. As Steve said in a roundabout way, you don't get to be an instructor pilot without extreme understanding and control of your reactions and skill set. It sounds like some things just came together that had an unfortunate ending, and what I want to say is that all of us have been there and either been caught, like you were, or not caught yet, and perhaps are a little cocky about that.

 

I've videotaped other riders with my setup, and been videotaped myself. And even when knowing that I was being taped, I still made mistakes. So please don't take this personally. It's just a rare opportunity for us to learn.

 

You have some great friends and many people who are concerned for you. Heal well.

[steveknapp]

I talked with Lee last night and he still does not recall seeing, or waving to the oncoming bikers. The turn signal activation may have been inadvertent. Lee remembers thinking that he could not make the turn and made a concious effort to stand the bike up and hit the curb head on. That is all he recalls.

 

Does he remember being drowsy that day? Sounds an awful lot like how I get in the cage when I should be at the side of the road catching a few Zs. You still do what you need to, and you think you're in control, but you don't remember much afterwards.

 

Glad he is recovering!

[MikeB]

Great analysis. Just a quick story relayed to me some time ago, a group of riders were parked near a curve in the road in the mountains when a rider passed by. The passing rider waved to the group and then missed the corner and flew off and over a very high cliff. It happens...

[MikeRC]

There but by the grace of God go I.

 

I want to send best wishes on to Lee, and thanks to Uli for the video and David and others for the discussion. At first, I reacted like Tool and was dismayed by how many people wanted to comment on another rider's errors - both observed and by conjecture. But on thinking about it overnight, I see it as a benefit to me (and hopefully others) to have this clip and info available. I think it really just reinforces the need for me to always concentrate on setup for the corner, and always have a plan B and plan C in case of road or rider conditions forcing a change in cornering line.

 

If anyone can pass this on to Lee:

 

Ride often, ride safe, ride fast, ride again soon. I'm looking forward to meeting you, if our paths should ever cross. I owe you a beer for something you have taught me, even if you didn't mean to. And don't worry, there are a few hundred of us that just let out a sigh of relief and will be happy to tell you how close we know we have been to being in the same spot.

 

Mike Cassidy

[AdventurePoser]

Steve,

 

I won't second guess Lee's mishap. Please tell him happy birthday for me, and best wishes for a complete and speedy recovery.

 

Thanks,

Steve

[David]

Steve, four of us stopped by the accident site this weekend. I walked around and looked over it and whispered a little prayer of gratitude that he's going to be okay. It could have been so much worse.

[Erick]

Steve, four of us stopped by the accident site this weekend. I walked around and looked over it and whispered a little prayer of gratitude that he's going to be okay.

That might be useful. But...how is Lee doing right now? Any new information on his recovery?

[SteveHebert]

Lee Waller update -

 

I saw Lee Friday evening at the Movie Gallery renting some fliks. He looks great and does not have the brace on any more for the neck injury. He is expected to make a full recovery in about 4 weeks. His knees are painful still and are bruised, but his spirits are high. He was interviewed over the phone for his new job, they really took care of him on that one.

 

As for his riding days - he can't wait to ride again and expects to in a few weeks! He has an 850R also and will be looking for a new bike.

 

David,

 

Thanks for the prayers, I will pass them along. He indeed is lucky and has really come to grips with that over the past few weeks of sitting and thinking. Lee is a quiet, gentle guy and does not like a lot of attention. He does appreciate all of the words that have been said here.

 

Take care,

 

Steve

[oldtime]

Steve, Thanks for the update ,Lee has been in our thoughts and prayers since El paseo. Glad to hear he his coming along and looking forward to riding again

[rdfrantz]

Of the things I've seen in the video, some have been mentioned and some not. I'd like to bring a Pertinence to both.

 

 

For those who really don't like reading the long posts I'm prone to, the synopsis of my opinion is:

The Rider failed to properly place his Attention on the REAL factors of the environment that would have led to a successful ride; He allowed his Attention to be diverted not just From The Right Things, but To The Destructive Things.

 

 

To me, the first key to getting a successful ride to come about is having a vision in place of what that successful ride is. I state this for myself, roughly, as, "Get to Point B from Point A, at least as well of as when I started." Without that as a Guide, any, and I mean any other thing can creep into a ride, and possibly divert one from that Objective. Looking it over, one could get diverted from reaching Point B and end up somewhere else; One could "lose" one or more qualities one had set for the ride, like to be refreshed; And even experience a loss of "quality" to a maximum extent and get diverted from "getting there better off" -- with wellbeing intact. So, conversely, to the extent that vision for the ride is put into place, and then maintained in place, one is likely to get what's in that vision to happen in the real world rather than something else.

 

Personally, I break a ride down into "segments", blocks of time and ground covered -- and how that's done -- that each one, one after another, all add up to the successful completion of my ride. "Segments" to me are pieces of roadway I cover that have a distinct Character: The traffic flow around a freeway interchange; The next two miles of low traffic freeway I can see before it crests a hill and leaves my view; The run down my driveway before I reach the street; The NEXT corner I need to get around, wellbeing intact, to complete my Ride.

 

Like the Ride overall, I see each one of those segments as having a Beginning, Middle, and End. End, always End, is the most important part -- If I want to "end up" somewhere, and somehow - Wellbeing intact. The Realization of the vision comes from putting it there (at the Beginning), and always having it there, whether its about the whole Ride, or any segment that makes up the ride.

 

From the Video, and Uli's description, I see that in this corner, that kind of thing got off the rails early, and I believe that's what led to a crash instead of something else -- success.

 

 

The factors I feel are Pertinent:

 

[1]Wave at first rider (not a response)

[2]The turn signal

[3]Early turn-in

[4]Bad - BAD - VERY BAD - Body Position

[5]Bike running wide 1/3 through the turn

[6]Bike vertical attitude on contact with first curb

 

 

Why I think they are Pertinent:

 

[1] The Wave

The wave at the first oncoming Rider was a nice thing to do -- at the very wrong time, the time when "the vision" for this corner should have been formed, put in place, and then kept in place. Lee's attention went onto the first oncoming rider. By the time he was finished paying attention there, the second rider masked Lee's last telling view of the corner -- when he finally began to assess the corner in detail. There was a huge cost to "being nice"... rather than Taking Care of Business.

 

My view is that Courtesy got in the way of doing the job of managing this next segment of roadway, the corner. If there in fact was a vision, an objective for the ride, whatever other qualities about it, getting there intact was "lost sight of". Without focus on this point, this END POINT, the Rider leaves the door open for anything in the universe to intervene and take control of the ride -- by taking control of HIS FOCUS.

 

As for this segment, this corner, Russell makes the point I attempt get every rider to see who I try to help ride through corners -- Keep your attention on the EXIT POINT. It looks like that point was never found, or even expected to exist, before the corner was entered.

 

Unless that point, and its Importance, is placed there -- in the FIRST place -- it cannot possibly remain there, and cannot be a "Hugely Important Point" that we must strive toward. And, it cannot be a beacon to remind us what to strive toward. The keys I try to point out about this are 1) PUT it there; 2) KEEP it there; 3) Attain it and then Acknowledge it (And, knowing how WELL one attained it - perhaps how closely - one gets to monitor how well they ARE SETTING Exit Points, and then ARE RIDING the bike to attain them.

 

Overall, of this case/crash, I consider the rider found that Other Riders were more important than HIS OWN GOAL for the ride (Ride whose own Ride?); The Scenery (the turn-out) were more important than HIS OWN GOAL for this corner of the ride.

 

Each of the following factors points to me that lack of "focus on the Important" was present.

 

 

[2] The Turn Signal

The turn signal was either struck my misplacing the hand back on the grip -- or it was "on purpose". By the latter, I mean it is POSSIBLE Lee looked up, saw the turn-out, and then "said to all the universe", I'm NOT turning into "that".

 

In the first case, wave-and-then-hand-to-the-grip, without banging that out of the way BMW turn signal switch, is something virtually any rider can do -- unless they are rattled. What would rattle Lee? The "impending doom" of where he actually crashed -- I suggest that turn-out Loomed Large in Lee's consciousness -- supported by the occurrence of [3], [4], [5]. And Lee's "consciousness" didn't belong on the turn-out, but rather it belonged on successfully reaching Exit Point.

 

Should it be correct that Lee did semi-intentionally hit the turn signal, that is just a further indicator that turn-out was "looming large in his consciousness".

 

Again, all this is suggestion Lee did not "pre-read" the corner, did not ever get a "good read" on the corner, and thus had no goal for the corner, no Exit Point, and no striving to accomplish it. If there WAS some goal, all I SEE is that it was "don't crash"... which got degraded to "don't crash badly".

 

 

[3] Early Turn-in

I hope I don't hurt anyone's feelings, but that was a horrible line INTO the corner. I feel Uli has been far too generous in saying the line he saw was "not the best line but okay for the speed and the radius." That line SUCKED... And then, it got worse.

 

Given Lee's Riding experience, his Confidence in being able to wave at other riders and believe he could still control the bike as a bike, and still control the bike's motion in response to the (road) input, and the smoothness with which he did roll the bike into the corner, there is the very strong suggestion Lee could have handled that corner just as well as he had all the similar, GEOMETRICALLY SIMILAR, prior corners.

 

Given Lee's bike did not fail, and that Uli was actually catching him AFTER Lee entered the corner, we can confidently assume the overall speed Lee traveled was one at which Lee could have negotiated that corner -- with that actual Geometry. That Lee did not SET UP for that corner properly -- creating a "geometry" of arc to match the corner's arc -- is another indication HE DID NOT SEE THE ACTUAL CORNER.

 

 

[4]Bad - BAD - VERY BAD - Body Position

Lee is "counter-leaned" on entry. From the time he rolled the bike left into the corner, through later crossing the center of the lane, his torso is pointed, from butt to head, to the outside of the corner. While this can be the case when a rider "hangs-off", to the "corner side" of bike, Lee is not doing that.

 

It very much appears he has kept his torso and head UPRIGHT (longitudinally vertical), and laterally vertical (as much as possible), and "thrown the bike" down to the left. This is NOT COMMITTED to the corner. He committed the BIKE to the corner, but he, himself, is not committed to what it takes to successfully negotiate that corner.

 

I submit he NEVER committed -- because he had no concept of WHAT to commit to (in order to be a success). That turn-out appears to have grabbed his attention from the moment he raised his hand from that (silly way of) waving at the oncoming rider.

 

(That "low, cool, 'sophisticated' Harley Wave" is the absolute worst use of body, mind, and attention I can imagine. Look over for yourself what is involved in doing that versus "Raising the left hand upward from the bars in acknowledgment and then dropping it back into position again. It takes AT LEAST FOUR DISTINCT AND MEASURED MOVES OF THE BODY -- Possibly six or eight. Silly. I stop short of calling it foolish.)

 

 

[5] Bike running wide 1/3 through the turn

The bike very clearly is running wide before reaching even the 1/3 distance through the corner. The CRASH occurs BEFORE the middle of the corner!!!!

 

That body position is very likely to have... Elbows Locked. That would make it impossible for the bars to turn more in response to more lean. That would make it impossible to apply counter-steering to GET more lean, and thus turning power.

 

That body position makes it very difficult to... LEAN MORE.

 

"More Lean" is called for if the bike is to CONTINUE to follow the tight arc required from that [3] Early Turn-in -- tracking the corner close to the yellow line. I don't think Lee could have gotten that greater lean even if he had really "wanted" it.

 

But, perhaps more important, we all have "our personal maximum lean angle", the angle to which we take our bikes, the one we're comfortable reaching with the bike, and then "need to work" to lean beyond. In that poor body position, WHAT that "max personal lean angle" is goes out the window because one cannot sense what is actually going on, and is actually being accomplished.

 

A bike running wide that early in a corner wholly suggests the Ride is OUT OF CONTROL... already.

 

 

[6] Bike vertical attitude on contact with first curb

Uli tells us Lee stood the bike up -- he Accepted The Crash.

 

The video shows an ABRUPT righting of the bike as it crosses the middle of the lane. While it's true that a chopped throttle COULD have caused a rear wheel skid in that oily lane center, Uli didn't see such a slide, and did not himself commit such a slide despite his quick stop). So, it's more likely that Lee CONTINUED... very much Continued to "Fixate" on The Doom.

 

I must, in good conscious, continue to HARP on the fact that this corner WAS BAD FROM THE START. What was bad was the placement of the Rider's Attention. It was in the wrong places before approaching the corner, as the corner was approached, as the corner was entered, and then -- to top it off -- when the crash STILL could have been avoided, the attention was on the crash, not on what would have lead to a successful corner negotiation, and successful ride: Exit Point/End Point.

 

 

David pointed out earlier that a crash is a compendium of negative factors (being allowed to be) piling up until the crash is inevitable. It really appears that at any point up until the bike was stood up, this crash could have been avoided.

 

If I have a point to make it's that we can "avoid avoiding crashes"... If we do the Right Thing from the start; If we set a Right Course, and then follow it with right actions. Even half-right actions are likely to prevail -- if we set that Right Course from the start.

 

 

Best wishes.

[soboy]

Dick: Thank you for your excellent analysis and articulate response. I have been riding dirt bikes since 1973 and street bikes since 1975, and I recently joined this DB. I have found your messages on the Ride Well section of this DB to be among the best riding advice I have ever seen. My opinion about riding is that we all need to be continually learning, improving and practicing our skills, and your insightful and expert advice has helped me become a more proficient rider since I have joined this DB. Once again, many thanks - I truly have learned a lot from you in a very short period of time, and I look forward to learning a lot more.

[Ford R]

Riding or brain drain.

 

I would ask - If you did that corner at that speed alone the next 50 times would you make it?

 

Then analysis follows from the answer.

 

[couldn't suffer a download at 46 k]

 

[Erick]

Lee Waller's accident on the Cherohala

How is Lee doing now? Does anyone know?

Riding a bike again? Free from physical damage?

[Uli]

Hi

 

Lee is fine now. He flew again yesterday. His knees are still not perfect but the neck is ok. He's not riding yet but is talking about buying a new BMW.

 

Uli

 

[Erick]

Lee is fine now. He flew again yesterday. His knees are still not perfect but the neck is ok. He's not riding yet but is talking about buying a new BMW.

Thanks for the update, Uli. Glad to hear Lee's OK.

I haven't seen any comments from him in this thread (I think). Yet, I would be very interested in hearing what his views and perception are (if Lee is interested in sharing that with us).

 

Well, I could understand that Lee hesitates a bit, because that might escalate into "You dumb fellow rider! You should have....". What if we all promised not to go that route?

[itchybro]

That's GREAT! That's the best holiday news I've seen so far.

 

 

[catman]

I wish this video could be shown to everyone during a MSF course. It instantly captures your attention and respect for the art and experience required for safe riding. The video gave me flashbacks because I had a similar scare while negotiating the BRP a few years ago, but was lucky to have a little more room to correct my errors. My explanation/excuse (aside from probably committing all of the other well outlined "rider errors") was that I hit some gravel that caused me to overreact and straighten up the bike. Fortunately I had enough room to lean and counter steer to avoid the disaster, but I suspect that my fate would have been similar to Lee's if there were a curb, grass and retaining wall in close proximity. Could a road imperfection have contributed to Lee's crash? I think there is some gravel exiting from the turnout, but it seems a little far away from the point of disaster. Will these modified riding techniques provided in this thread allow me to survive the road imperfections or is it an unavoidable obstacle that should be anticipated (and adjusted for) in these curve/turn out conditions?

Larry