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A Video and Analysis of Lee's Accident on the Cherohala


David

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Many of you have read about Lee Waller's accident on the Cherohala this last weekentk, over in this thread. As informative as it was to learn about how his gear held up, you are about to learn something about the crash itself.

 

Steve was leading, Lee was second, and Uli was in third place, rolling video when it happened. I believe Jerry was in fourth place. Uli has pulled out a segment and asked me to upload it to the server.

 

Warning: it's just over 10MB, so don't bother unless you have broadband.

 

Click here to see the .mpg movie.

 

I couldn't resist going through the movie frame by frame and doing my best to reconstruct the accident. I wasn't there, Lee doesn't remember anything, and I've not checked these impressions with Uli, who saw it. In other words, take these observations with a healthy dose of skepticism--the video didn't capture the entire sequence (he's out of the frame for just over 3 seconds), and what it did capture is quite grainy, as you would expect.

 

Here's what I see:

 

  • Conditions are dry, clean, and clear of fog. In other words, there's no problem with the surface or the conditions.
     
  • Their speed looks like less than 45 mph to me, based on lean angle and based on how quickly Uli is able to stop his bike, totally under control, in a turn, and in less than 60 feet or so (you'll see that at the end of the clip).
     
  • Two oncoming riders passed, and Lee returned a wave to the first rider.
     
  • After waving, he put his hand back on the left grip but didn't place it correctly, accidently triggering the left turn signal, just as he is beginning to initiate the lean. The turn signal stays on until the bike comes to rest, just over 7 seconds from when the turn signal was first turned on.
     
  • He didn't return a wave to the second oncoming rider.
     
  • His body position is poor in the turn, though not a factor in the accident itself. It might, however, indicate that he didn't set up as he normally would.
     
  • The line is bad in that he turns in early. That could be a natural reaction to seeing the obstacle on the outside, and attempting to not run wide.
     
  • There is no brake application entering the turn.
     
  • He probably fixated on the pullout and "went where he looked."
     
  • There might have been hard braking as went wide. No sure on this point. See the black mark in this photo:
     
    lee2.jpg
     
    My guess is that this mark is not related to the accident, but was already there. If Lee laid this mark down, it's because the front tucked in (low side), shortly after which the rear hooked up and caused him to flip clockwise (from the rear) to begin a highside. See how the rear is swinging around to the right as he hits the curb.
     
  • So he lost the front, maybe. The other possibility is that he just stayed upright until he hit the curb. Uli can tell us when he reads this.
     
  • At least the rear brake is being applied heavily as the front hits the curb.
     
  • Lee leaves the pegs when the bike is two feet off the ground, and he is starting to get thrown off from the impact of the rear wheel on the curb.
     
    lee1.jpg
     
  • The bike twists 2.5 times and lands upside down.
     
    lee3.jpg
     
  • To reaffirm the low speed (and Uli's vigilence), notice how there is no drama involved in him slowing down, in the turn, to an almost complete stop, fully under control.
     

 

What does all this mean?

 

First, it all started by waving at someone too near a curve.

 

Second, trust the bike. It'll generally lean a lot more.

 

Third, look where you want to go.

 

There was no need for the accident. The bike could have been ridden into the turnout, leaned further to make the curve, or even slowed to 20-25 mph before jumping the curb (still under control).

 

When you watch it in real time, it's amazing how quickly it happens, huh? It's a good reminder of many things.

 

As you watch the bike and Lee cartwheel, you can't help but think that this here is one lucky man.

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Nice analysis, Dave. You're right about the speed not being an issue, it really looks like he stopped turning, maybe didn't get his hand back on the left grip in time to make the turn. A lot of similarity to Peters accident at El Paseo I where he moved his hand off the grip to point at a rock in the road in a turn. A small distraction is all it takes.

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russell_bynum

David,

Thanks for posting this. It's a shame we don't have that missing 3 seconds, but this is really great anyway.

 

In general, I agree with your analysis, but I think it started by not focusing on the turn (more accurately...on the exit point). Waving at the other rider wouldn't have been a problem if it had been a secondary focus. But once you let other things take over...waving at the other rider, fussing with the turn signal, eyes drawn into the lookout...then you're behind the bike instead of in front of it.

 

If I remember the full story from the other thread, Lee was also pretty fatigued at the time. I know that I have hard time staying focused when I get tired, so that most definitely had a role.

 

Also, his actual departure from the bike...caused by the pitching from the rear wheel hitting the curb...I've had more than one dirt bike getoff in that situation. More often than not, then bike gets even with you for jumping off by running over you...or worse yet...tumbling over you.

 

Lee's definitely lucky that this turned out the way it did.

 

I hate to see accidents, but it's nice having a video, and a witness so we can analyze what went wrong. I only wish someone had a camera on me when I went down a little over a year ago so I'd know for sure what happened there. frown.gif

 

I hope Lee has a speedy and full recovery.

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First of all I would like to wish Lee a speedy recovery - no one likes to see this sort of thing .

David , excellent comments and likely causes which made me stop and think about my own riding style and techinque .

I had a big off on a previous bike when diesel on my front tyre caused it to slip away from me when I was going round a left hand bend at 30 mph early one morning with nothing else on the road and excellent visibility .

I had just come back off holiday and took the bike to get some petrol - even though it was only down the road I put all my riding gear on and although the bike was a wreck I ended up with just a bruised shoulder and torn arm muscle .

I couldn't believe how much damage could be caused at such low speed - a sobering thought .

Safe riding everyone

 

Steve England

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Some comments to David analysis:

 

The skid marks are not from Lee's bike, he never used the brakes until the impact. My attempt to expain what happened:

After he waived at the oncomming rider he activated the left turn signal. Feeling this or seeing the flashing in his cockpit, he looked down the check it out. When he looked up again he got confused about the road - whats road, whats outlook. If you're not sure about where to go it's a normal reaction to level the bike. And that's what he did. After entering the turn he suddenly leveled the bike and went straigth for the divider.

 

Uli

 

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If you're not sure about where to go it's a normal reaction to level the bike. And that's what he did. After entering the turn he suddenly leveled the bike and went straigth for the divider.

 

Uli,

 

Did you actually see him suddenly level his bike : "...after entering the turn he suddenly leveled the bike and went straight for the divider..." or, is this your reconstruction/analysis of what happened?

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In general, I agree with your analysis, but I think it started by not focusing on the turn (more accurately...on the exit point). Waving at the other rider wouldn't have been a problem if it had been a secondary focus. But once you let other things take over...waving at the other rider, fussing with the turn signal, eyes drawn into the lookout...then you're behind the bike instead of in front of it.

 

If I remember the full story from the other thread, Lee was also pretty fatigued at the time.

 

You are right, of course--there's no single thing to blame it on. Accidents usually occur when multiple causes pile up, none of which on its own would have been enough to cause the accident. And we've all been there, done that, too.

 

In fact on Friday afternoon I was leading a ride on 267, glancing at the map on my tankbag to check on the next turn. When I raised my eyes again, I was going far too fast for the turn. Mark Davis was right behind me.

 

I braked v e r y hard--so hard that the rear fishtailed--scrubbed off enough speed, and then leaned it deeply into the corner. But I still strayed just over the yellow line in doing so. It was totally rider error, initiated by my choice of timing in reading the map. Duh.

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The skid marks are not from Lee's bike, he never used the brakes until the impact.

 

That was my instinct, Uli, that the skid mark was unrelated. It was at the wrong angle.

 

And looking back at the video this morning, it's obvious that there was no braking when he hit the curb. I suspect that the braking was inadvertent, caused by the bike pitching up against his foot and/or his body pitching forward. And it's reasonable to assume that he did no braking during the three-second lapse in the sequence, since the brakelight would have still be on when he hit the curb.

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You all have heard the term "press into the turn" meaning to counter-steer. Counter-steering can be done by both or either pushing the bar on the side your are turning or pulling the bar on the other side. Normally, folks "press" i.e. push the low side bar. In the ERC, they make you practice turning using only the "pull" on the high side. The reason this may apply here is that if his left hand was not in position to push because it was either waving or working the turn signal, he might not have had enough experience/practice to "react" quickly by pulling the high side. I personally think it is a good idea to practice both so it because natural to do it either way. I frequently use my right hand in a both push and pull mode if my left hand is doing something in my tank bag. Just a comment.....

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Great video to watch and learn. My question is this and why. Was there any steering input as he hit the curb? I could not tell on the video. I did see the back end swing around. The reason for this is a couple of years ago I was running radar/laser on road that I have done for years. It is a four lane road with a middle lane for turns. I went after a guy and was accelerating hard. The next think I knew, I went up over the handle bars and remember seeing the little yellow light on the front fender. (Harley Davidson FLH) For some reason I ended in the seat and I was still going. I did not know what I hit. I still was able to stop the guy however I was shaking so back I could not write the ticket. I even lost my ticket book. All the saddle bags popped open. So what did I hit? I had no idea. I went to look and also find my ticket book. Once I went back I realized that in that block there are two small island, that I did not see. I was so focus on the speeder I did not see it. I was too very lucky. I think what saved me was that I was in a straight line. I had no steering input. Also the curb was rounded and not square. So that was my question, if he had hit the curb straight could he have made it?

Glad that Lee is OK and again watching the tape makes you see how fast it can go to O-crap.

I remember that I tried to blame everything to a dirt windshield and finally realized that it was me. I was not paying attention to riding put rather on not losing the guy clocked for speeding. Lesson learned. To stay focused.

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After seeing the video, I remember meeting Lee at the BB&B event in Enterprise AL a couple months ago. Here is a pic of Lee's bike then.

 

lees-r1150rs.jpg

 

I looked through the mug shots and couldn't find a picture of him among them.

 

Good luck Lee. I hope this turns into something you will be able to laugh about in the future.

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RE:

So that was my question, if he had hit the curb straight could he have made it?
I doubt it. IMHO, even if he were going straight, the upward force caused by the rear wheel going over the curb would have tossed him off the bike.

 

That happened to me once. Hit a curb staight on, going about 40 mph (due to SERIOUS lack of attention!) Tossed me and the bike up into the air. I came down to the left... the bike came down to the right. I got a broken ankle. The bike got a broken right side valve cover,bent rear rim, bent rear axle, a cracked saddle bag, my clothes strewn all down the road. Brand new 1975 Honda Goldwing, one day old. 84 miles on the odometer. frown.gifconfused.giffrown.gifconfused.giffrown.gif

 

 

Don

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Uli, is there any more video after the the wreck showing the way people responded to the situation; helping and such. I think that might be a very valuable tool in its self.

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I have to say I find this wierd. The last frame before the accident shows the bike well leant over and leaning more than the frames before it; add to that the too early turn in and the last thing I would expect is for his bike to run wide and had it done so he would have run out of road further down, perhaps where Uli turned in. He may have panicked in mid turn and picked it up big time but again I would expect a shallower angle to the outside of the curve. I think the back tyre slid, he steered in to it, the tyre gripped, flicking the bike upright & over with righthand lock applied and he speard right hitting the curb - he was probably half way through a high-side. Somewhere there is an italian university web site which shows some of the physics involved with a m/c - they have an animation which shows somthing quite similar happening when a rear-end breakaway grips again suddenly. Given his low'ish speed this makes the most sense to me.

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Let it also be noted that it was a left-hander, which many with whom I have talked have said are "more difficult" than right-handers (in right-hand drive geography).

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Let it also be noted that it was a left-hander, which many with whom I have talked have said are "more difficult" than right-handers (in right-hand drive geography).

 

I think the opposite is true, actually. Everbody struggles with their own things, but it's actually right handers that most people struggle with, because:

 

a) their throttle hand is cramped into their body.

b) they are more nervous about a cramped brake peddle than a cramped gear shift lever.

c) right hand sight lines are always worse.

d) almost all u-turns are done counterclockwise, giving people a greater comfort level.

 

Having said that, if you video tape people or just ride behind them observantly, you'll notice that they tend to choose poorer lines on left handers because they are more afraid of going wide off the road than going wide over the center line.

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Amazing video Uli!

When we went back to walk the accident scene, I felt for sure it had do be speed related, but watching the video pretty much eliminated that theory. Now that I think about it, the marks from previous accidents on that initial curb were more at angles indicating they were still trying to make the turn. Lee's mark was more direct and the video confirms that. Scary to see that a minor distraction, a momentary loss of concentration, can result in something so horrific.

 

Note the red paint and what looks like old fluid just before Uli turns in. There were 4 distinct spots in that parking area from other accidents.

 

I find it strange that in an area where several accidents (including fatalities) have occurred, they wouldn't go ahead and paint yellow on that curb just to make it more obvious. What are others thoughts on that?

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Uli and David, thanks for making this video clip available. I'm sure we can all learn from it. I know that I have.

 

Watching this makes me mindful of how close I came to a similar situation during that ride in Arkansas. A second or less of inattention is all it takes.

 

Great idea on painting the curb, Mark. Perhaps it would have alleviated any confusion.

 

Dex

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Hi Michael

 

As you can see on the video I was right behind Lee. He entered the turn ok, not the best line but ok for the speed and the radius. And then, without any aparent reason, the leveled the bike and headed straigt for the divider. He hit the divider at an almost 90° angle without any braking.

The leveling was definitely not related to a sliding wheel or so.

The camera was on for some more minutes but didn't record anything interesting, just the wall.

 

Uli

 

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I have to say I find this weird.... The last frame before the accident shows the bike well leant over... . I think the back tyre slid... he was probably half way through a high-side (on first frame where he re-emerges.)

 

Andrew,

 

Excellent counter-theory. Things may make more sense when Uli gets back to us with what he actually saw (and at what point) verus what he surmised/analyzed happened. BTW did anyone catch the shadowy figure hunching in the grassy knoll right before the turn. wink.gif

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russell_bynum

The reason this may apply here is that if his left hand was not in position to push because it was either waving or working the turn signal,

 

Maybe, but I doubt it.

 

Lee entered the turn after he hit the turn signal. The bike was already heeled over and in the turn when (according to Uli), he stood it up.

 

But I do agree that it's good practice to roll into turns one-handed so that, if you ever need or want to it's not a big deal. It's also a good idea to practice rolling in no handed (In a deserted parking lot) to get a feel for how your weight can change things.

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I felt for sure it had do be speed related, but watching the video pretty much eliminated that theory.

 

I do not think you can discount speed. And while we can try and dissect the accident itself, a too fast corner entry speed is one of the leading cause of accidents.

 

It's apparent from the video that the pace was spirited.

 

Was it TOO fast? I guess the answer is to fast for who? And under what circumstances? I think a reasonable assumption could be that it was too fast for Uli at a certain point in time. Whether he was in a skid, too wide, distracted, fatigued, fixated, or some combination -- is hard to say -- but, whatever it may have been, the faster you enter a turn, the harder it is to deal with any situation.

 

I agree from looking at the tape that you can rule out those skid marks being from Uli's bike.

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russell_bynum

It IS apparent from the video that the pace was spirited.

 

I disagree. First...the lean angles were not very steep. Even going in with poor body position (as Lee did), the bike was on course to complete the turn and was not leaned over very far. Also, judging by the complete lack of drama in getting Uli's bike stopped, it looked like they were just cruising along. I'd guess it was about a 5/10th's pace

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I'd guess it was about a 5/10th's pace

 

5/10th's pace for who? And what about the fatigue factor?

 

Whatever happened -- and we only have theories -- Lee was unable to make the appropriate actions (or counter-reactions) in time. This usually is a function of how fast we are riding -- i.e. the faster we ride the less margin of error.

 

My guess from the way he negotiated the curve -- entry -- body position -- the way his head kept going from side to side -- he was at least 7 or 8/10ths and apparently that did not leave enough of a margin in this particular situation.

 

On a personal note, whenever I have my "brown" moments, it's usually because I entered the turn too fast(for me at the that time). Isn't that the way it usually is folks?

 

 

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With the entrance to the roadside parking area right there in the turn, a moment of directional confusion is possible. I believe that a sign with some left-pointing arrows placed on the edge of that curbed island that Lee hit would eliminate the confusion.

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I would agree that it was not speed-related. Seems like he judged the turnout as the road, and then middled it. Up on the Cherahola, as well as the Blue Ridge Parkway, the turnouts can sometimes appear to be where the road is going.

 

I passed one (but not this one) earlier that day thinking, "Gee, you could really misread this."

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I would agree that it was not speed-related.

 

Matt, I'm not sure we disagree even though I feel it is somewhat speed related. wink.gif My point here was that if he was going slower he would have had more reaction time to correct any problems, including mis-reading the turnout.

 

Regading the turnout -- if you back up the film to the frame just before Lee comes back into the picture, it is easy to see that the rock wall could be mistaken for the outside of the turn.

 

Combine this with the fact that Lee's head appears to turn in and away from the turn two or three times indicating that he may have not had his focus though the turn enough. However, I am still a bit puzzled (like Andrew) how he got so far over so fast.

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I was afraid you'd say that we agree. wink.gif

 

The camera is pointed too low to get an appreciation of the potential confusion that these turnouts create. By the time Uli's camera picks it up, it's already obvious the road continues left -- not so in realtime.

 

I was warned twice about the Cherahola, about two things ... the turnouts and blind decreasing radius corners. Because of the 45mph limit here and on the BRP, corners are often not well marked with speed control. I agree that some warning arrows are certainly in order here, particularly given the number of recent accidents in this spot.

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I agree that for many (in right hand side driving countries) right turns are more difficult. One other reason is that for any given speed, your lean angle must be steaper because by definition, righthand turns have a shorter radius.

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I thought the opposite might be true in a right-hander, though, as the camber down from the crown is in your favor to the right, and not at all to the left.

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What gets me is that it wasn't even close. By this I mean that he didn't drift wide and clip the curb. He nailed it straight-on.

 

His speed didn't look excessive, based on the photographer being able to slow and pull easily into the turn-off.

 

It looked to me that the rider made a serious cognitive error, and chose to ride towards the turnoff, rather than follow the pavement around the curve. I didn't see any major braking or accelerating that would have contributed to a high-side type of accident, and I don't believe that is what happened.

 

There were good double-yellow and edge lines available to help in following the pavement around the curve.

 

I think the guy just chose the wrong path. There really isn't any excuse for what happened.

 

It could have turned out really badly, and I'm glad it wasn't any worse than it was.

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From your description Uli, it sounds to me like he became confused mid-turn about where the road went. Maybe it was something like the turn signal distracting him, maybe just fatigue or a momentary lapse. But to stand the bike up mid-turn after he was already set for what looked like it would be a successful passage, says to me that he saw something different than what he expected. After straightening up, it sounds plausible that target fixation/panic kicked in and he made right for the hazard he saw: the curb. The fact that he went straight and didn't brake at all says to me that he was likely panicked or asleep.

 

If he hadn't been thrown when he was, it looks like there was (wet?) grass, a drop to another road section, then another curb and the wall with unknown terrain beyond that. I think the question isn't whether he could have ridden it out, but at what point he would have lost it. Glad this time didn't go too terribly wrong.

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I know everyone means well here, and I do not mean to criticize, but I gotta say this:

 

I sincerely hope that NOTHING I EVER DO - good, bad or otherwise - will be dissected like this! shocked.gif

 

I repeat - I don't mean to offend or criticize. "Post-mortem" analysis is painful by nature, but not always extremely useful. Yes, we can hopefully learn something from Lee's misfortune. But since we don't have alot of facts, just the video, exactly WHAT we can learn is hard to say, except that he was lucky to avoid worse injuries, and that good gear helps, along with the great coincidence of having medically trained riders in his company.

 

I guess I'll add that if you have a get-off, don't do it in front of a camera!

 

What happened... happened. We know we have to ride the motorcycle 100% of the time, and even that gives no guarantee that we'll be safe.

 

Again, I hope to see Lee on the road sometime. Good luck on the recovery.

 

 

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David, Could you explain the poor body position? I'd like to learn from this but the image is blurry and I don't ride behind enough people to know what it should look like.

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ShovelStrokeEd

David

Looking at the video it looks to me like a classic "It didn't steer" reaction.

I don't know about Lee's riding experience, I hope he is getting better BTW.

 

It didn't steer comes from 2 things.

 

Target fixation - he looked at the curb and then went there.

 

Instinctive reactions - People who do not ride a lot compared to time spent driving a car wil, when faced with a panic situation, revert to car habits, in this case, turning the 'wheel' left to get around the turn, resulting in the opposite of the desired effect.

 

From descriptions of the crash and watching the video, my best guess is Lee suffered from one or both of these problems. A shame, really cause it does not look like he was over his head. A quick loss of focus can put us over our heads if it happens at the wrong time. I have had a woobly couple of turns as a result of returning waves. I don't wave anymore in turns unless my hand is already off the bar. I have, since my recent getoff, spent a good deal of time working on my visual focus since, with increasing age, it is hard for me to change focal distance quickly. I exercise my eyes frequently and have slowed up just a bit in my riding to compensate for the problem.

 

Hard to admit to oneself that you are slower than before and / or slower than the guy in front. Harder still to take the steps necessary to survive slowing reactions/abilities. I don't say this is where Lee went wrong, that is between God and Lee. Just another observation.

 

Ed

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I repeat - I don't mean to offend or criticize. "Post-mortem" analysis is painful by nature, but not always extremely useful. Yes, we can hopefully learn something from Lee's misfortune. But since we don't have alot of facts, just the video, exactly WHAT we can learn is hard to say, except that he was lucky to avoid worse injuries, and that good gear helps, along with the great coincidence of having medically trained riders in his company.

 

Ouch! I learned to appreciate my gear including the Dainese back protector from watching the video. Lee I hope you recover fully from the accident and thanks for allowing us to watch and hopefully learn something from your misfortune.

 

I don’t buy the theory of confusion on the direction of the curve in the road. Lee had just waved to two riders coming around the turn that would have indicated the direction. Perhaps he saw something about the overlook that made him want to turn in and just misjudged the entrance to the overlook. It is amazing just how fast things can go wrong.

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I repeat - I don't mean to offend or criticize. "Post-mortem" analysis is painful by nature, but not always extremely useful. Yes, we can hopefully learn something from Lee's misfortune. But since we don't have alot of facts, just the video, exactly WHAT we can learn is hard to say, except that he was lucky to avoid worse injuries, and that good gear helps, along with the great coincidence of having medically trained riders in his company.

 

 

I don’t buy the theory of confusion on the direction of the curve in the road.

Having just ridden the Cherohala and the BRP, I can attest to there being some combination curves (esp. uphill R-L) with turnouts on the right side that can be deceptive when you are in them. The parking area turnout is exactly the same color and level as the road. It appears to be more of a "fork" with 2 lanes available than an entry to a parking area. Some marking of the curb (inc. reflective devices for night time) would make the visual discrimination easier.

When you pass the first entrance to the parking area you can feel like you "missed a turn" even though there is roadway ahead. You have to be there to experience it.

I felt this at one of the other turnouts. You "know" you are in the right place but the visual info sends a mixed message to the brain, sort of an Oh Sh**, did I just miss something? After that I was prepared for the visual misinformation. BTW, more than one other rider has recently experienced misfortune at that spot. Lee's gear did its job well. Best wishes for a complete and speedy recovery.

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First comment:

 

I sincerely hope that NOTHING I EVER DO - good, bad or otherwise - will be dissected like this!

 

I hope you never meet some of my old girlfriends shocked.gif

 

On to the vid:

 

My 1200CL pal Jim mentioned something I haven't seen here yet. Has anyone noticed how the white line disappears just before the curb. Perhaps he might've subconsciously been using that as his guide. Possible contributing factor to the target fixation angle?

 

Another thing I'm curious about is how is Lee doing now? Is he ambulatory or being confined to bed?

 

I hope he's comfortable whatever he's doing!

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FYI-I asked Uli about Lee's recovery just last night and he said that he and Steve H hoped to check on him today and report back on his progess.

Christine

 

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Mark Menard (Vita Rara)
Having just ridden the Cherohala and the BRP, I can attest to there being some combination curves (esp. uphill R-L) with turnouts on the right side that can be deceptive when you are in them. The parking area turnout is exactly the same color and level as the road. ... You "know" you are in the right place but the visual info sends a mixed message to the brain, sort of an Oh Sh**, did I just miss something?

 

Tim,

 

You are completely correct about this "Oh Sh**" message that gets sent to the brain. I've riden the Cherohala a number of times and the BRP twice and I still occasionally get that feeling on exactly the curves you speak of. It's a visual trick that the road plays on you. I always really exagerate the look where you're going when I see there is a pull out ahead. Keep an eye on the lines, watch where the real road is going.

 

Lee,

 

Here's to a speedy and complete recovery.

 

Mark

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Barry Cottrell

"Warning: it's just over 10MB, so don't bother unless you have broadband".

 

 

David,

Think you could archive the clip? I'm still on dial-up, and I'm sure others are too. I'll be making the jump to light speed in a few days, and I'd sure like to be able to see the video.

And get well soon Lee. We all want a first hand account.

 

Barry

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Having viewed the clip again, in the last two frames where Lee is leaning into the curve, it APPEARS to be POSSIBLE that his left knee hit the pavement. Unfortunately, it is at this point that he moves out of the frame until he hits the curb. Not having ridden in a number of years, I do not have an educated or experienced opinion on whether or not dragging one's knee would have upset him enough to cause him to straighten out.

 

Looking at hte turn, there appears to be enough information to ascertain that Lee did indeed know where the road was going. There is a guardrail to his right, there are picnic tables and a turnout map in the parking lot, none of which could be confused with a roadway. Once again, I have not ridden in many years, much less this stretch of roadway, so I do not have the perspective that Lee had that day. I do not know what he saw or what caused this accident.

 

All I can say is I hope he is recovering well! Best wishes from a fellow Alabamian! If there is anything I can assist with from here, please let me know. I would be glad to lend a helping hand in any way I can. PM me if you Alabama guys need anything. Maybe one day I can join in the rides. But until then, my thoughts are with Lee as are my prayers for a speedy recovery and return to riding. smile.gif

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Think you could archive the clip? I'm still on dial-up, and I'm sure others are too.
So am I. But couldn't you just start the download and get back to your PC 40 minutes later to find it sitting on your hard disk? It's what I did...
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Boy, I've enjoyed this one. It was great of Uli to cut-out the section where it all went wrong. I think my theorem on a high-side is bunkum, based on the fact that Uli saw him stand the bike up. I can't think he misread the road. Those double yellows would suck you all the way round and this guy (sorry to be critical) has poor road positioning and looks like a line hugger. He didn't run wide either, so......well I am convinced (almost)that he touches down in the last frame before leaving the shot. It's not his feet, but judging by the fact that his body position is poor (sorry to be critical again)he is really pushing that bike down, it may even be the cylinder head. I think it scared the crap out of him, he stood the bike up and hit the curb. Any other thoughts apart from falling asleep (in mid turn?)???

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... this guy (sorry to be critical) has poor road positioning and looks like a line hugger. He didn't run wide either,...
Initially, Lee did set up for the outside of the lane, just after greeting the oncoming bikes. He went towards the center lines a bit early, but wasn't really hugging them, in my perception.

 

I wonder why he operated the left turn signal light at all. Was that a coincidence, or did he already think that he was turning left at a junction? If so, then he misread the situation in an early stage. He possibly missed the brownish road sign indicating the parking lot.

 

The theory of a slipping rear wheel gripping one second later is most sound to me.

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A note for all of us "arm chair quarter backs". Uli saw the entire accident. He has the best perspective of all. As for the possibility of part of the bike or body touching down, I do see the hard lean angle in the last frame before he goes out of sight. I was leading on an RT and never came close to scraping anything all day. I believe that an RT would touchdown before an RS, so I think that conclusion is not sound. I will stick with confusion and possible panic. Lee is a Standardization Instructor Pilot here at Ft. Rucker. He is not a wild man and does not take unnecessary risk. He said that he was no where near pushing it previous to the accident.

 

I talked with Lee last night and he still does not recall seeing, or waving to the oncoming bikers. The turn signal activation may have been inadvertent. Lee remembers thinking that he could not make the turn and made a concious effort to stand the bike up and hit the curb head on. That is all he recalls.

 

Lee is recovering well, but is very drained of energy. He spent most of Wednesday at the hospital and is home recovering. He is driving himself around when needed and won't ask for help. He is a strong willed, independent man. Lee is happy to be alive and will celebtate his 40th B-day tomorrow, the 15th.

 

I will keep everyone posted on his recovery and have passed all of your wishes of a speedy recovery on to him.

 

Steve

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I hope Lee makes a speedy recovery. Having ridden the Cherohala last month, I know where he went down. IMHO, he could have made that curve at 45 m.p.h. had his line been correct and his concentration level at 100%. The Cherohala demands full attention, but it is not a difficult road. The curves are mostly long sweepers, many of them can be safely negotiated at speeds up to 60 m.p.h. There are a few decreasing radius surprises that can not be negotiated above 45 m.p.h., but I had no problems or pulse-raising moments at all on that beautiful road, and I was on a cruiser, maintaining consistent speeds through all curves between 45 and 60 mph. In addition, I have never scraped a peg on the Cherohala.

 

One critical point is the "wave" factor. While I enjoy waving at other cyclists, I only wave when conditions are safe. I never wave when I am setting up for a curve - riding proficiently demands my complete attention to the task at hand - getting through the curve correctly is my only goal at that point.

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Thanks for the update Steve.

 

Boy, I sure hope Lee is getting royalties per hit on this thread. Reading some of this analysis is likely going to be more painful than the pavement was. You guys are tough!

 

Speedy recovery to you, Lee.

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