Review of the new KTM 950 Adventure. Will new GS learn from it?

[smiller]

So how would the KTM compare with the F650GS? More power of course, but heavier, although it may not feel like it judging from your description. I'm thinking of going in this direction but I think the GS is a little too heavy for my tastes (and my abilities) for something that will see a fair amount of off-road work. Have been looking at some 650GS's, but might this be a better option? How much bigger does the KTM feel vs. the 650GS?

[David]

So how would the KTM compare with the F650GS? More power of course, but heavier, although it may not feel like it judging from your description. I'm thinking of going in this direction but I think the GS is a little too heavy for my tastes (and my abilities) for something that will see a fair amount of off-road work. Have been looking at some 650GS's, but might this be a better option? How much bigger does the KTM feel vs. the 650GS?

 

The KTM (950 Adventure with LC8 motor) is lots taller than an F650 GS. Much better suspension. Much more power. Not much more weight.

 

What would lead me to the F650 would be ABS, seat height, long-distance comfort, and proven reliability mechanically. The other advantages go to the KTM.

 

Of course you really want to be comparing the F650 Dakar to the KTM LC4, probably.

[smiller]

Yeah, I realize that I'm crossing class lines with that question, but looking for 'more' than the 650 in terms of power/suspension but 'less' than the 1200 in terms of weight and the 950 seemed to fit in there. Interesting comment on 'long-distance comfort'... what hurts the 950 with respect to the 650 in this area?

[David]

Interesting comment on 'long-distance comfort'... what hurts the 950 with respect to the 650 in this area?

 

The seat. They've fixed that to some degree by making the newer model seats softer and wider, but it's really a "tourified dirt bike seat." Of course there are aftermarket options, now.

 

Oh, tire choices are also a factor. But if you're talking real off-road type stuff, you'd probably be fine with the KTM tire choices. Back when they came out, I was pretty unimpressed with their pavement-worthiness for long distance (grip, for sure, and wear, I presumed), though you could get by, I suppose. I'm assuming that there are more options now, though I've not verified that.

[johnlt]

David, Question on handling in the twisties. All that suspension travel is great in the dirt, but is it "too much" for good handling in the curves, especially the front suspension. Having said that, the MotoGP bikes seem to have dirt suspensions also and look to do ok on the curves. Can you contrast the KTM with your GS on Deals Gap class of curves, how about high speed curves like the Cherohala?

[David]

David, Question on handling in the twisties. All that suspension travel is great in the dirt, but is it "too much" for good handling in the curves, especially the front suspension. Having said that, the MotoGP bikes seem to have dirt suspensions also and look to do ok on the curves. Can you contrast the KTM with your GS on Deals Gap class of curves, how about high speed curves like the Cherohala?

 

John, there are probably better informed riders who can step in, since I only had an afternoon on the bike, but I'll take a stab at it. The amount of suspension travel itself is not an issue so much as your ability to damp it (compression/rebound). If that's dialed in well it should not be a problem. There definitely IS a lot of front end dive under braking. In fact, even on acceleration you can see those sliders moving inches at a time between gear changes. All this to say that the suspension on the KTM has more dive, but it also has better shocks that are more adjustable.

 

Deal's Gap? With similar tires, the KTM would be a tad faster.

 

Cherohala? The nod would probably go to the GS.

[SDMike]

David, Question on handling in the twisties. All that suspension travel is great in the dirt, but is it "too much" for good handling in the curves, especially the front suspension. Having said that, the MotoGP bikes seem to have dirt suspensions also and look to do ok on the curves. Can you contrast the KTM with your GS on Deals Gap class of curves, how about high speed curves like the Cherohala?

 

This is the eternal question... "what handles better?" Well, funny you should ask that 'cause there's an entire section on ADVRider.com dedicated to the nine-fiddy.

 

Re: F650 vs. KTM. The best comparison would be the LC4 in whichever guise you get one. From the 625 SXC that's plated to the LC4 Enduro (or 6-Days), to the Adventure they're all LC4 engines with varying gas tanks and suspensions. The LC4 lump makes more power and more vibes than the F650's Rotax lump. Put dirt tires on it and you have a fairly good dirt bike. Put Saharas on it and it'll carve up roads with some of the best road bikes.

 

If you're not out on Mexico/Death Valley/etc. trips, riding 250-300mi between gas stops, the ADV may be too much. For more woods riding the 625 SCX or the Enduro are better choices.

 

The F650 loaner that Brattin has really underwhelmed me. No oomph, only OK handling, etc.

 

If any of y'all are close to Sandy Eggo, y'all are more than welcome to test my Adventure. You can't scratch it any worst than it already is!

 

M

[Dances_With_Wiener_Dogs]

(more like a dirt bike than the mighty 11??GS)....(mirrors are rock solid; much better than the 11??GS)....Very nice ratios. First is not as tall as the 1150 Adventure, which is not as tall as the regular 1150.... Why You Still Might want to Buy an 1150GS...

 

David, all of your references are to the 11xxGS and not to the 1200GS. How does the KTM compare to the 1200GS and why did you choose the 11xx comparison?

[David]

(more like a dirt bike than the mighty 11??GS)....(mirrors are rock solid; much better than the 11??GS)....Very nice ratios. First is not as tall as the 1150 Adventure, which is not as tall as the regular 1150.... Why You Still Might want to Buy an 1150GS...

 

David, all of your references are to the 11xxGS and not to the 1200GS. How does the KTM compare to the 1200GS and why did you choose the 11xx comparison?

 

Steve, this is kind of an old thread that got dragged to the fore, and when I was test riding the 950, the 12GS wasn't out yet. Thus the references to its predecessor.

 

I'd probably need to ride the 950 again to get a good comparison, since it's been quite awhile. The 950 intrigues me, but if something happened to my bike tomorrow, I'd get another 12GS. The engine is smoother, the seat is lower, and whole whole experience is more comfortable. It's also an issue of "familiarity" for me in that I know boxers to some extent.

 

Flogging the 12GS off pavement, though, brings many winces when I think a KTM would have been better in that environment. But since I use mine mainly as a road bike, I'm very happy.

[gcp]

Nice write up David, dug it up as had a test on the new Adventure 990 today, seriously considering one to replace my 02 RT.

 

Ticks all the boxes except for 4000 mile service intervals and weaker resale values (in UK).

[David]

Wow. Resurrecting a thread 2.5 years old! I got a chance to put a hundred miles on one in Mexico last month, and still think it's a great bike. I'm happy with my GS, but I could have been happy with one of those, too.

[gcp]

Now done a deal to part exchange my RT for a 950 with 496 miles at my local BMW dealer.

 

The guy who bought it didn't like it (too tall) and swapped it in after 3 months for a 1150R, guess he lost a substantial amount.

[Couchrocket]

David,

 

Nice write up!!!!! The 950 is on my "short list" for a dual-sport.

 

My friend Doug, (posts here from time to time as Hazmat) has an LT for LD touring, and several dedicated dirt bikes, as well as a KTM 950 set up for dual-sport touring. I've emailed him and sent the link to this thread. His bike was used by Cee Bailey to produce a screen for it... and he's running it on his 950 and might be able to comment on the difference between stock and CB. He's also had Rocky Myer re-do his seat, and can comment on that, too. My first tour with Doug (while he on his 950) was over to the Redwood coast of CA, the "Lost Coast Ride" etc. -- last year. Once when I was showing off by really launching my RT, he went by me on his back wheel.... I was humbled! LOL

 

Anyway, Dougie, you out there? Chime in on your feelings re your 950 and the mods you've done!

 

Good grief! Just realized that this thread is "OLD." But still a good topic since the 950 is really a contender in the dual-sport world......

[sideways]

Planning on retiring in the next 24 months and hoping to do the whole

Alaska/Central-South America enchilada. Often go to sleep at night thinking about what bike to do it on. (Also I flew over Alaska yesterday on a clear day - you folks that have ridden there already - I'm soooooo jealous!)

 

Questions/observations:

 

1) You can get the GS with tubeless, spoked rims. That's always seemed cool to me because you get the strength of spokes, with the ease of tire repair of a tubeless tire. Being a newbie, I haven't changed the rear tire on my RT yet, but wouldn't that be easier with the shaft drive, too?

 

2) Went on a dual-sport tour with Uwe Diemer of Admo-tours (who knows a LOT about adventure touring - http://www.admo-tours.com/2003/images/story/page1.htm ). Told Uwe I was thinking about doing the long ride on a GS, and planning to take it into some of the less improved areas. He's admittedly biased toward dirt capable bikes, but he said, "No! You'll miss many great experiences riding into villages that would be terrrible riding on a GS!" The KTM 950, he said, could go 90% of the places the DRZ-400s we were riding could go, and would be easier to pick up if you dropped it on a hillside. However, he said if I really wanted to do some fun adventure touring in the southern hemisphere, and be able to go almost anywhere, I'd be better off to fit out an XR 650, both because of its off-road capabilities and because of the easy availability of Honda parts all over Central and South America. We also discussed the KLR option, but Uwe told me his personal experience with at least the later KLR models, had been that they had an excess of electrical and other problems, and had so many cheap parts that would need upgrading, that I'd be better off with a different bike for my proposed trip.

At least these are my recollections of what he told me, FWIW.

 

3) Next year (or this?) the 950 will become a 990 with fuel injection. I hope the FI on the KTM will be smooth and carburetor-ish, because a jerky on-off throttle transition would be a real drag in a tight off-road situation, maybe especially with shaft drive. I'm guessing the GS is somewhat smoother about this than my RT? Or perhaps more likely non-HP2 GSs don't really get in such situations where it would matter?

 

Happy adventuring to all, even to those of us who are so far just dreaming about it!

[SDMike]

Planning on retiring in the next 24 months

You surfing over to www.advrider.com too? ALL of your DS questions are probably already answered over there. (and some questions you ain't even thought of yet too!)

 

The BRP is a great base for about anything you can toss at it. Problems arise with heated clothing and other high drain equipment 'cause the DS kits that I've heard of are short in the extra wattage arena. The BRP seems to be about as reliable as an axe.

 

The only thing I can think of that is its achilles heel is the lack of an e-start. I've been told that starting its easy once you learn the jedi mind trick.

 

I've never ridden one, but have been researching the same things as you for a while now.

 

Good luck!

 

M

[sideways]

Si amigo, I surf and lurk at the adv board, but haven't researched the spoke/tubeless thing or scoured the KTM section to see if anyone has a FI 990 yet.

Good idea, though! Inquiring minds and all that.

 

By BRP I assume you mean the XR? Big Red something or other????

This should be good.

[David]

1) You can get the GS with tubeless, spoked rims. That's always seemed cool to me because you get the strength of spokes, with the ease of tire repair of a tubeless tire. Being a newbie, I haven't changed the rear tire on my RT yet, but wouldn't that be easier with the shaft drive, too?

 

Getting the wheel off is easier on a bike like the GS, but that's where the convenience stops. First, getting the tire off the rim is tougher. Second, finding a replacement tire will take you days in most settings.

 

2) Went on a dual-sport tour with Uwe Diemer of Admo-tours (who knows a LOT about adventure touring - http://www.admo-tours.com/2003/images/story/page1.htm ). Told Uwe I was thinking about doing the long ride on a GS, and planning to take it into some of the less improved areas. He's admittedly biased toward dirt capable bikes, but he said, "No! You'll miss many great experiences riding into villages that would be terrrible riding on a GS!" The KTM 950, he said, could go 90% of the places the DRZ-400s we were riding could go, and would be easier to pick up if you dropped it on a hillside. However, he said if I really wanted to do some fun adventure touring in the southern hemisphere, and be able to go almost anywhere, I'd be better off to fit out an XR 650, both because of its off-road capabilities and because of the easy availability of Honda parts all over Central and South America. We also discussed the KLR option, but Uwe told me his personal experience with at least the later KLR models, had been that they had an excess of electrical and other problems, and had so many cheap parts that would need upgrading, that I'd be better off with a different bike for my proposed trip.

At least these are my recollections of what he told me, FWIW.

 

Well, he's mostly right. If you're good and a bit strong, the GS will take you to most places. The KTM 950 will not be measurably different in that regard. In other words, it won't go many places that the GS wouldn't go. Both are big-ass wannabe off-roaders full of compromises.

 

If I were doing to do the trip you describe, I wouldn't do it on a GS or KTM. I'd probably choose a KLR, which would go to even more places. And not reliable? I think that's nonsense. There are tons of them running around in all sorts of abused condition and nary a problem.

 

3) Next year (or this?) the 950 will become a 990 with fuel injection. I hope the FI on the KTM will be smooth and carburetor-ish, because a jerky on-off throttle transition would be a real drag in a tight off-road situation, maybe especially with shaft drive. I'm guessing the GS is somewhat smoother about this than my RT? Or perhaps more likely non-HP2 GSs don't really get in such situations where it would matter?

 

The GS suffers in rough conditions, but not because of throttle control possibilities. In that department it's fine. Where it struggles is with a first gear that's too tall and driveline lash as the rear bounces.

 

It's all a compromise, but that's what makes it an adventure.

[sideways]

Thanks very much, David!

 

You know, the issue of finding a tubeless replacement tire in remote locations had not occurred to me at all, nor the greater difficulty in getting a tubeless tire off the rim. Very good points!

 

As far as the KLR goes, my recollection of what Uwe told me may be faulty. I think he may have been referring more to stock bikes he'd seen out in the dirt with broken parts than to long-term reliability issues. I note also that in this month's Motorcycle Consumer News KLR review, they mention that Greg Frazier rode a KLR around the world.

 

"It's all a compromise, but that's what makes it an adventure."

You betcha! That would be a great signature line, since it's so true in every part of life!

[Shawnee Bill]

For a ride you are considering I see two biggies in the KLR's favor, tubed tires and carburetor instead of FI. I can see fixing a tube or carburetor in most parts of the world, EFI or tubeless tires give up and you've got problems that can be very difficult to address in remote areas. You can put a tube in the tire of course but an electronic problem and you're toast.

I consider working on tubeless tires easier than tubed tires though, that is once you've got the bead broken.

 

I do see one problem with a KLR after riding one for a while now, it's heavy and badly underpowered. However it is ridable and a couple of different size countershaft sprockets can compensate for the lack of power.

 

If I were planning a trip through remote parts I would seriously look at the smaller KTMs, 600s, 650s, whatever they are.

[SDMike]

For a ride you are considering I see two biggies in the KLR's favor, tubed tires and carburetor instead of FI. I can see fixing a tube or carburetor in most parts of the world, EFI or tubeless tires give up and you've got problems that can be very difficult to address in remote areas. You can put a tube in the tire of course but an electronic problem and you're toast.

I consider working on tubeless tires easier than tubed tires though, that is once you've got the bead broken.

 

I do see one problem with a KLR after riding one for a while now, it's heavy and badly underpowered. However it is ridable and a couple of different size countershaft sprockets can compensate for the lack of power.

 

If I were planning a trip through remote parts I would seriously look at the smaller KTMs, 600s, 650s, whatever they are.

950s are still carbed. 990s are EFI.

 

There's also the 640ADV... Had one. Liked it. Had to sell 'cause I ran out of $$ last summer.

 

M