Review of the new KTM 950 Adventure. Will new GS learn from it?

[David]

I get to ride a lot of bikes, mainly because I suck up to salesmen and just because I'm interested in bikes. And frankly I'm not surprised all that often. After you read a few magazine reviews, read spec sheets, and listen to what people say who have the model you are going to ride, it's not all that surprising.

 

Sunday I was surprised by the KTM 950 S. Toolman (Howard Gilliam), who lives just outside Atlanta, was kind enough to let me stop by. We then took a 2.5 hour ride, me on his brand new KTM following him on his wife's lowered 650.

 

 

Now, before any of you criticize me for talking about a non-BMW, please understand that we encourage that around here. Yeah, we are a board specifically devoted to BMW Sport Touring, but we don't live and die by brand loyalty, and newbies around here frequently comment at how they can receive unbiased advice, which is rare in the on-line motorcycling world. Buck's post yesterday about the Rune is a good example. So let me share a brief review of this really interesting bike.

 

First a few stats:

 

• Engine is the new LC8. Very compact and light. Water cooled. Carbureted, 4 valves per cylinder, 12,000 mile valve adjustment interval (after 600 mile check). The smallest, lightest, most powerful V-twin ever made (in production). It weighs 56 kilos (similar displacement bikes weight more: Ducati is 75; Aprilia is 68; Honda and Suzuki are 73; and 76 for the Boxer). In other words, the engine weighs 44 lbs less than the 1150 Adventure, and with the fuel real low, it's unbelievably controllable.
  
• Front and rear end both adjustable for preload, compression, and rebound.
  
• Has two tanks, one on each side. There are 7 gallons total (three in each side plus one gallon of reserve. Fuel is very low, and mostly below your knees.
  
• Tubed, spoked tires with Pirelli Scorpion rubber.
  
• Weighs 130 lbs less than a GS (both wet).
  
• Regular model is $12,000, and with a little dealing, that'll include the side cases.
  

 

Balance. Yep, balance. That's the word that kept surfacing in my mind. Perfect balance front to rear. Excellent peg geometry. Handle bars in exactly the right place, with the wrists perfectly bent, with just the right amount of handlebar width (more like a dirt bike than the mighty 11??GS). Lean is just the right amount. About like the RT without modification. The steering is more neutral than any bike I've ridden, bar none. No effort to turn, no body shifting required to fine tune the lean, just a superbly designed mount.

 

Fit/Finish/Gauges. Everything looked good. It was efficient, nice looking, and well built, from what I could tell. Not quite up to BMW standards (which I consider superb), but good nonetheless. Gauges are simple and utilitarian. Kind of like a functional Hummer. Large, easy to read tach. And then an LCD with strong contrast for the rest (tach, temp gauge with seven levels, etc.). There is no fuel gauge, but when you get to within one gallon of running out, a low fuel light illuminates and a countdown odometer starts automatically. You'll get 40-50 miles from that light, according to Howard. There are also several trip odometers, which is nice. You can reserve one for miles since filling up and the other for trip measurement. Switchgear is exactly like my ST4s. They must source it from the same place.

 

 

Power. As you saw above, this thing puts out 102 HP and 97 ft. lbs. of torque (at 6,000 RPM). The bike is so light, too, that you can operate very comfortably in the 3,000-5,000 RPM range (mirrors are rock solid; much better than the 11??GS; not as good as the RT). At those engine speeds there's no vibration at all in the bars, a little bit in the pegs, and a little more under the seat. Feels a little like an R-bike engine that needs a slight TB sync. After 2.5 hours, it didn't bother me at all. Cruising above that 5,000 RPM range, the vibes start to climb (75 degree V?), and it's uncomfortable. If you are under heavy acceleration, there's no noticeable vibration, mainly from the adrenaline rush, I suspect. It just pulls like a tractor on steroids. You can loft the front in first and second without touching the clutch, and that's saying something, since there's 10.5 inches of travel in the front end of the "S" model. I tried to pick times when Howard wasn't looking in his mirror.

 

Suspension. I'm just in awe. It soaks up the road so well that I didn't even realize how bumpy it was until I noticed the cables running to the front wheel, in front of the triple clamp. They were bouncing all over the place, but I wasn't. I suppose with that much shock travel you can afford to spread the compression damping out over a wide physical range. Very impressive, even in stock form. Better yet, adjustability is simple. Just grab one tool and do it. E.g., check out how the rear is adjusted. You don't even have to bend down. Fold preload out and turn. Or adjust inside or outside in the space to the left of the preload knob. Front is just as accessible. Russell, they are Works Performance--now I know why you are happy with yours on the RT.

 

 

Check out the shock travel on the front, as well as the clearance under the engine. There's more than 12 inches of clearance and 10.5 inches of front shock travel:

 

 

Storage. The optional side cases are spiffy. You can get aluminum or ABS plastic. I'd go for the ones that Howard did. They aren't going to start looking bad, and they are designed really well. There's a black tab to keep them open (center), and they go on and off very easily (and are locked onto the bike). Check out the cool feature at the bottom right. See that small rubber seal in the top of the lower portion of the case? The plastic is double-walled, and there's about 3 liters of space in each sidecase. Fill them with water, if you are going to the desert, or gas if you want an extra 75 miles of range. There's a drain at the bottom, which you can set over the tank and fill it up.

 

 

Here's a shot of them on and then off (the bracket kit is a separate purchase):

 

 

 

Howard also got the KTM bag. There's a hefty glove compartment underneath it, which isn't real useable if you have a tankbag on top of it:

 

 

Brakes. Perfect. Again, just great balance. I was instantly able to modulate both front and rear exactly as I wanted. No adjustment period needed. Strong stoppers.

 

Seating Position. Dang, this thing is tall! The set height us just under 37 inches! When on the center stand, I couldn't touch the ground with either tip toe. You just gotta power off it with faith. Once it's off the center stand, I had no problem controlling it (5'11"), though I was a little taken aback when I had to stop quickly at a stop sign, and I was parked uphill on a portion of the road that sloped to the right. That took a quick leg movement to catch. The standard version would have a seat height of about 36 inches. That would be perfect.

 

When we took off, I could not believe how high I was sitting. I felt like I was in an RV.

 

You know what? This sucker would be the perfect commuting bike. Gearing is good. Clutch is excellent. Engine is water cooled. It's narrow, tall, and powerful. Check out this front profile shot:

 

 

The seat itself is really nasty. Howard is sending his in to get some work done, which would be a must. It feels like you are sitting on a church hymnal, standing on edge.

 

Clutch. It's a wet hydraulically operated clutch. Feels very much like a trials bike. Very light pull. Broad, soft engagement zone. Very rideable. One finger is all you need.

 

Transmission. Very nice ratios. First is not as tall as the 1150 Adventure, which is not as tall as the regular 1150. Spacing is excellent. I did feel a little "light" to me. Not quite the definite engagement I like to feel, like the K1200RS. Cruising at 60 mph in top gear, you are turning 3,500 RPM. Actual is 56 mph at that indicated 60 mph.

 

Airflow. Not as smooth as it could be. I think it's because the windshield is small and too vertical. I'll be interested to see what the aftermarket comes out with.

 

Other Nice Touches. The tanks are isolated and can be closed off individually. This would be handy if you dropped it and busted the tank on one side. There's an automatic crossover feed.

 

There's a provision for running low grade fuel with a jumper under the seat.

 

The headlight is easily adjustable with a screwdriver. I'm told that the lighting is surprisingly good.

 

Why You Still Might want to Buy an 1150GS

 

Okay, even as impressive as this bike is, I can think of some reasons why someone might want to buy a GS.

 

First, it has ABS. That doesn't matter all that much to me, but I know it's a deal breaker for many fine folks.

 

Second, it has shaft drive. That doesn't matter to me, either, and until BMW gets their damn act together, I'd rather have chain drive. Easier to fix on the road, same maintenance, easier to change gearing, less sprung weight, no shaft effect, yada yada. But some of you really prefer shaft drive.

 

Third, proven engine. The R engine might not be the smoothest or most powerful, but it's a known entity that'll run forever. We don't know enough about the LC8 yet. It's been hyped as a fantastic engine design, and it's been run for nearly nine months now east of the big pond (never mind winning a couple Dakars) with no issues, but it's not been around for nearly 10 years like the R engine, which is also pretty easy to work on.

 

Fourth, if you are using it as a highway bike, the extra weight will give you a more "touring" oriented ride. Frankly, I found the KTM to be very comfortable in crosswinds, which I don't find on the GS.

 

Fifth, you get a longer warranty.

 

Sixth, you wouldn't be comfortable on that tall a bike.

 

Seventh, you don't like airflow. You aren't going to get an barn door Aeroflow on it. I like airflow.

 

Buuuuuuut, this is a killer bike. They've got the power right, and the weight down, and I'd take this places I'd definitely not take the GS. Sliding around in gravel after just riding it a few miles was not dramatic like a GS. I really like this bike. I gotta find a KTM Duke to ride on a track when they come out. Howard, you going to buy one?

 

Speaking of Howard, he's are a very generous soul, as are so many people from this board. We ran on dirt, gravel, twisties, and faster two-lane stuff. I very much appreciate your kindness in letting me ride it. I just might have found the bike I want to ride on a trip through Central America, though I'd love to know what the new GS has in store for us.

[Toolman]

Thanks for the kind words David. I really enjoyed meeting and riding with you Sunday. I have found that the people you meet from this board and from the DualSport community are some of the finest motorcyclist in our sport. If you do decide on a 950 I'll hook you up with the fine people at ProLine KTM. They have been great to Terry and I for many years, just like family!

 

Toolman

[Motonut]

Thanks David, for a beautiful writeup of a fine bike.

This is one to seriously consider for me.

And, you are right as to Howard's generosity...I stood at a filling station in Cashiers week before last oogling his bike and holding him up with my yak and numerous questions... a very nice man.

[ghaverkamp]

Great write-up, David. That's the most complete I can remember seeing anywhere. This has often seemed like a stealth bike, which is odd, since I know they've been out in Europe for a while.

 

That seat height seems pretty scary to me. It does look like a great commuter, and I'm trying to find a good commuter for my new commute, which entails a high-speed, very short run-up dive into freeway (bridge) traffic. But at 36" in the non-S, I'd still be looking at a bike that's 6 inches taller than my RS, which I can't even flat-foot. Maybe with the narrower seat and the suspension-squishing effect I seem to have on suspensions I'd be able to pull it off. Else, I'll have to continue to look.

 

If the current rumors are true, the next GS should be quite a close competitor, at least in weight and power. Won't have a wet clutch, which I also think would be handy for commuting here in the land of lane splitting.

 

Might have to locate one of those guys somewhere.

 

Greg

[David]

That seat height seems pretty scary to me.

 

The scariest part for me was getting it off the center stand, especially since it wasn't my bike. What make's a huge difference is that the seat is so narrow, which means that it's easy to slide to one side. Even on the S I could flat foot one side, or half flat foot both.

 

The piece of good news I forgot to mention is that KTM dealers are eager to give you a test ride, which isn't going to happen on some popular bikes like the ST1300 or FJR.

 

But you are right--it might be too tall. I wonder if they'll come out with a lowering kit? That would be a good idea.

[ghaverkamp]

But you are right--it might be too tall. I wonder if they'll come out with a lowering kit? That would be a good idea.

 

A factory one might be good, if it can not jeopardize the characteristics of the bike. There are, of course, other fine commute bikes I could choose. But, I keep saying I'd like to try this "adventure touring" thing. And this has seemed like a fine candidate.

 

Might have to make it over to the city to see if I can ride one.

 

Greg

[sgendler]

Greg, saet height is usually measured unweighted. With suspension travel that long, you should expect to compress a third of it just sitting on the bike, which brings 36" down closer to 32" when you are actually on the bike. David, correct me if I am wrong, but every dirt bike I've ever sat on was hard to climb on to but easy enough to control once compressed.

 

--sam

 

[David]

Greg, saet height is usually measured unweighted. With suspension travel that long, you should expect to compress a third of it just sitting on the bike, which brings 36" down closer to 32" when you are actually on the bike. David, correct me if I am wrong, but every dirt bike I've ever sat on was hard to climb on to but easy enough to control once compressed.

 

Sam's right. In fact, when I extended the center stand, it touches the ground while the bike is straight up. Get off the bike, and the bike leans far over to the left as the suspension unloads. Ride height measurements are always unladen, and as Sam notes, with that much travel, it's "soft."

 

Sam, have you ridden one? I'd love your feedback on it. I trust your impression of bikes, and it would be interesting to hear your perspective after riding mainly sport bikes. Boy, you'd have fun spanking sport bike heroes on this thing, especially on bumpy roads.

[kld41]

Very nice write up and pics. I havent seen one but when WIld West gets one hes suppossed to call.

 

Man what great guys like Tool to let you "tool" around on his new Katoom.

 

No question that the next ride in my garage will either be a new GS, a KTM, or a Duc MultiStrada. The Duc would be of course a street thing maybe 99/1, the KTM more offroad focused 50/50, and the GS being the 80/20 between street/road. Im waiting to see the new GS's too. Decisions, decisions!

 

For those of you who prefer this type of bike but are concerned about the seat height - fear not. Yes they do compress under load - but there is a better way. You can have the suspension shortened (front and rear) to fit you - most of the time. Race Tech and others do great work on these. There are some other excellent suspension shops that do this type of work. Sometimes it results in a loss of initial plushness - but most times the suspension can be revalved for you weight and style and it will be much better. As I prefer suspension that "rides up" in the stroke this works good for me - although I have not yet had to shorten any for me. I did have one done though for a buddy on a Honda 650 - it worked out very nice. I had that particular bike on the trailer in a Texas Hill Country run and a Harley. Some sport bike riders were scoffing at both. In just a bit they were very embarrassed about having a Thumper one cylinder 650 go right by in just about any corner - and especailly the rougher the better. These type of bikes will turn and burn - just not so much on the straights.

 

I forgot to say that of course the springs can be shortened or replaced too.

[sgendler]

Sam, have you ridden one? I'd love your feedback on it. I trust your impression of bikes, and it would be interesting to hear your perspective after riding mainly sport bikes. Boy, you'd have fun spanking sport bike heroes on this thing, especially on bumpy roads.

 

I want to, badly. I haven't seen one in the Bay Area yet. I frequent two KTM dealers, and neither one has seen one yet. On the other hand, riding one might well be a VERY expensive experiment for me, and I have a wedding to pay for in May! I'll probably hold off for a while. I dislike my KRS enough that I know that if I ride one, it will cost me.

 

--sam

[kld41]

__________________________________________________________

 

. I dislike my KRS enough that I know that if I ride one, it will cost me.

 

--sam

 

__________________________________________________________

 

 

Whats up with this??

[russell_bynum]

Whats up with this??

 

Sammy has a rare medical condition where he can't keep a BMW for more than a few months. He usually trades them in for a Triumph Speed Triple, which he'll later trade on another BMW.

 

 

[russell_bynum]

Russell, they are Works Performance--now I know why you are happy with yours on the RT.

 

I got jipped...my Works shocks on the RT don't have anywhere near 10.5" of travel. I think I'll write and complain.

 

 

Awesome writeup, by the way! Makes me wonder if I need a KTM in addition to the ST4s (spent too much time looking/drooling at Tool's). Dang...when's that lottery deal gonna come through?

[sgendler]

Whats up with this??

 

You don't want to get me started, but the short summary is that I find the KRS long, heavy, sluggish, and generally not terribly fun for me to ride on my own. On the other hand, it came with 1.9% credit when I was unemployed and needing a bike that Tifanie could ride on the back of, and Cary had a pre-damaged one on which I could get a good deal, so I bought it. I regret it now, although I still don't know what I would have bought instead. FJR, if I'd been able to wait, I suppose. Given how much I don't like the KRS, I wonder if I wouldn't have been better off with an LT, which I wouldn't have liked much less, but which Tifanie would have liked a lot more. I thought I was buying a compromise that I would still be able to ride and enjoy by myself, but it doesn't even come close to emulating a real sporting ride, so I might as well not have bothered with the compromise.

 

Meanwhile, I got hit by a car on it, so it is even more damaged than it was when I bought it, and worth considerably less than I'd like, so I'm stuck with it. I used the insurance payoff to pay down the loan, rather than fix the bike, which may or may not have been a mistake. It would be easier to sell without the damage.

 

Maybe it will get stolen

 

--sam

 

[RichEdwards]

David,

An excellent and astute examination of an interesting motorcycle. Have you considered another side job writing bike reviews for the moto-press?

[David]

An excellent and astute examination of an interesting motorcycle. Have you considered another side job writing bike reviews for the moto-press?

 

No, I'm too unbiased. And writing is too much work. But thanks!

[rkd]

The optional side cases are spiffy. ... or gas if you want an extra 75 miles of range. There's a drain at the bottom, which you can set over the tank and fill it up.

 

Daniel - thanks for the review write-up but on the above statement ... you'r kidding, right? Does KTM say one could actually do this?

[David]

Daniel - thanks for the review write-up but on the above statement ... you'r kidding, right? Does KTM say one could actually do this?

 

No, I'm serious. And I'm "David"!

[321]

So does anybody have a very nice Duke II they want to part with at a very nice price? This would make a wonderful step up, and I could help you out with that older KTM disposal.......

[Sean]

I've been sportin' some major wood since KTM released the new Adventure 950. If I could put one in the garage today, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Very sweet bike indeed. I've read every moto rag review on the thing so far, and the lust just gets greater after finishing each article. Unfortunately, it looks like the'll be difficult to get ahold of in the US for a few years. From what I've heard, they're only importing about 2000 of them and they're all already sold before they even hit our shores. I think you're right though that BMW could learn a thing or two from KTM. But couldn't you say that after KTM spanked BMW the last few years in the Paris-Dakar?

 

The KTM 950 Adventure just oozes cool, in my book!

[k7qz]

David:

 

Thanks for the review! Nicer photos, writing and assesment than a lot of the motorcycle mags that I receive each month.

 

Only problems is, now I want one! Maybe I should sell my V-Strom......

 

-Mike

[David]

Unfortunately, it looks like the'll be difficult to get ahold of in the US for a few years. From what I've heard, they're only importing about 2000 of them and they're all already sold before they even hit our shores.

 

I don't know how many they are importing, but they are actually all over the place. I know of three in Atlanta and three in Memphis right now.

 

For a normal KTM dealer to carry them, they have to pay $10,000 or so for training, tools, display and such, and then they get four to start with. I've got people calling me regularly wanting to sell.

 

I'm just lookin' at this point. I don't want a third bike and I'm not ready to take that trip and I don't want to spend the mula, but I've been sorely tempted. Hopefully "absence makes the heart grow fonder," but so far it just makes me mean and resentful.

[Sean]

I don't know how many they are importing, but they are actually all over the place. I know of three in Atlanta and three in Memphis right now.

Oooh, that information is really not good for me to know. Hmm, now where did my wife hide those credit cards...

 

[David]

Oooh, that information is really not good for me to know. Hmm, now where did my wife hide those credit cards...

 

Sean, on that subject, let me ask you two questions. The engine configuration is a 75-degree twin.

 

a) What's the logic behind that? To fit into the frame well? You've got everything from 90-degree to 180-degree, and I'm curious about what the advantages of a 75-degree might be except compactness.

 

b) Would choosing a 75-degree twin contribute to the vibes at higher engine speeds?

[swmckinley]

Great write up David. I also like this bike and will wait another year to see how it all shakes out. I think KTM has a winner here. The tall thing doesn't worry me so much as I have gotten used to it with the GS ADV, it's no shorty, just gotta learn to slide yur butt to one side or the other to get a foot down. Thanks for your time to write this up.

[Sean]

Oooh, that information is really not good for me to know. Hmm, now where did my wife hide those credit cards...

 

Sean, on that subject, let me ask you two questions. The engine configuration is a 75-degree twin.

 

a) What's the logic behind that? To fit into the frame well? You've got everything from 90-degree to 180-degree, and I'm curious about what the advantages of a 75-degree might be except compactness.

 

b) Would choosing a 75-degree twin contribute to the vibes at higher engine speeds?

 

Maybe this answers your questions:

 

Claus Holweg, KTM's senior four-stroke engineer, pointed out: "A 90-degree V-twin and a 60-degree V-twin are both disadvantaged because one is naturally longer and the other needs a balancer shaft. The 75-degree V-twin arrangement is the perfect compromise."

[David]

Great write up David. I also like this bike and will wait another year to see how it all shakes out. I think KTM has a winner here. The tall thing doesn't worry me so much as I have gotten used to it with the GS ADV, it's no shorty, just gotta learn to slide yur butt to one side or the other to get a foot down. Thanks for your time to write this up.

 

You are welcome, Steve. And just for the record, you are not allowed to buy one. All I saw was a disappearing GS Adventure last time we rode together, and not being able to keep up with something so ugly is humiliating.

 

Speaking of looks, I don't know how I feel about the KTM. All kidding aside, I've grown to really like the utilitarian looks of the GS. For now, anyway, the orange is only available on the S model. The regulars I've seen are all silver.

[David]

A 90-degree V-twin and a 60-degree V-twin are both disadvantaged because one is naturally longer and the other needs a balancer shaft. The 75-degree V-twin arrangement is the perfect compromise."

 

Thanks! So now, to get into it deeper, what are the physics behind how a 75-degree twin doesn't need a balancer shaft?

[DavidEBSmith]

I know of three in Atlanta and three in Memphis right now.

 

There was one at Big Sky BMW/Kawa in Missoula when I was up there. I was really intrigued by all the features but I couldn't figure out how I would mount it. I felt like I was at eye level with the seat - kinda like facing at the pommel horse in junior high gym class.

 

Yeah, add a bigger windshield like the Aeroflow one for the GS, a better seat, a 4 gallon gravity-feed fuel cell, a GPS, XM radio, and figure out how to get the gasoline-filled saddlebags past tech inspection and you might have a heck of an adventure-touring and endurance-riding bike.

[** Chris **]

I know this is a BMW site, but I was wondering if anyone has had chance to ride the 950 back to back with the LC4? Does the bigger engine bike buy you much in road comfort? Dirt performance?

 

Sounds like I need one of these. Maybe trade my GS in on one of these and an Aprilia Tuono.

 

Wait a minute. What would I ride to Alaska next summer. Neither of those bikes...

 

Chris

 

[David]

I was really intrigued by all the features but I couldn't figure out how I would mount it. I felt like I was at eye level with the seat - kinda like facing at the pommel horse in junior high gym class.

 

 

I was shocked by how high I was as we took off down gravel roads. I kept looking for the elevator button so I could push "1" and sink back down.

 

Seriously, that's why I think it would be such a great commuter bike. While seated, my head was level with the bottom third of standard Stop signs, and standing up I was looking across the top of them.

 

Of course all this was magnified by the fact that I was following him on a shortened F650 with a thinner Corbin seat. I thought he was riding a skateboard.

[sgendler]

Sounds like I need one of these. Maybe trade my GS in on one of these and an Aprilia Tuono.

 

Wait a minute. What would I ride to Alaska next summer. Neither of those bikes...

 

Chris

 

Why wouldn't you ride a KTM Adventure 950 to Alaska if you owned one? I imagine that it would be, if anything, more suited to the task than the GS, although that is just conjecture on my part. Lighter generally equals more dirt worthy, and the KTM chassis engineering has never been in doubt in that regard, either. The luggage looks superb, the range of the thing looks excellent, including those very cool aux. tanks in the saddlebags. Knowing what I know of the Aprilia v60 engine, I, personally, would have little doubt about the reliability of the KTM motor. It seems like a perfect Alaska bike to me. That's why I want one. It's only defect, as far as I can tell, is something easily remedied by one of the Mayers, Sargent, Russell, et al.

 

Actually, to be honest, the Tuono is pretty amazingly dirt worthy, too. I've been offroad on mine twice now, and am constantly impressed how well it does, despite wearing sportbike rubber. I just wouldn't ride it to Alaska cause it would be hard on it cosmetically. The KTM is so damn ugly, who cares what happens to it cosmetically. Besides, big trailies look awesome covered in muck and scars.

 

--sam

[Sean]

Thanks! So now, to get into it deeper, what are the physics behind how a 75-degree twin doesn't need a balancer shaft?

 

Sounds fun. Okay, but there's many details specifically about KTM's LC8 that I don't know, so I can only speculate. First off, I'm not sure if the LC8's cylinders are sharing the same crank pin or not, but if they are, then that should essentially factor out the rocking couple, end-to-end (axial) vibration issues relative to the crank. Next, why 75 degrees? My guess is that the key word is "compromise." I think the design was implemented knowing full well that much vibration could not be damped, and this was probably considered acceptable.

 

Some background: A 90 degree splay does not require a counterbalancer shaft. Rather, it uses a counterweight at the crank. Typically a counterweight at the crank can only be so heavy as to counter the rotational mass of the crank throws and partially counter the connecting rods, leaving the pistons essentially unbalanced. This is because the rotating counterweight can only balance rotating mass. If you tried to balance the mass of all rotational and linear mass, you would get shaking when the counterweight moves perpendicular to the piston because at that point the linear mass is at a tangent to the rotional mass of the counterweight and therefore cannot cancel out the counterweight. In a 90 degree splay though, the counterweight's weight can be increased to counter both the pistons and remaining connecting rod weight as well as the rotational mass, because the 2nd piston at 90 degrees will cancel it, resulting in naturally near-perfect balance without a counterbalancer shaft.

 

A 60 degree splay only works with counterbalancer shafts though because the 2nd cylinder is not in the correct position to counter a full-weight crankshaft counterbalancer.

 

My speculation on the 75 degree LC8: Either A) The difference of 15 degrees, in this particular application, ended up not creating a significant enough increase in vibration for KTM to feel that it needed to be addressed. Or, maybe like in a 60 degree V6, they used a split crank pin with maybe a 37.5 degree splay angle, I don't know, just a guess. Or, they've figured out some other clever full-weight crankshaft counterbalancer setup (i.e. a multi-lobed full-weight counterbalancer, or multiple, out-of-phase crank counterbalancers, but I'd think that would re-introduce rocking couple vibration then). If they went with the split pin approach, that would likely mean that the crank counterweights are only counter rotational inertia and not linear inertia, meaning they're lighter, and therefore would result in a more lively engine with better top end power I'd think.

 

Anyway, FWIW, there's my technical speculation on the LC8's 75 degree v-twin. If anyone else has further information on this motor's configuration, I'd be quite interested in hearing about it.

 

[ghaverkamp]

Why wouldn't you ride a KTM Adventure 950 to Alaska if you owned one?

 

No kidding. That's precisely why I do want one.

 

And the commuting thing wouldn't be bad, either.

 

Greg

[David]

Thanks, Sean. I kind of hate to quote Alan Catchart on anything, since I suspect he couldn't even predict what an existing bike will be like , but here's an interesting article that talks more about the engine layout:

 

http://www.ktm.at/newsletter/lc8/lc8_no21_2002/default_e.html

[Sean]

Thanks, Sean. I kind of hate to quote Alan Catchart on anything, since I suspect he couldn't even predict what an existing bike will be like , but here's an interesting article that talks more about the engine layout:

 

http://www.ktm.at/newsletter/lc8/lc8_no21_2002/default_e.html

 

Good article although I wish it had more detail. Looks from the pictures of the motor that the pistons are staggered, suggesting probably are using either a split crank pin or 2nd crank pin. Their multipurpose layshaft explains a lot though. The information I had on the LC8 to this point, seemed to indicate there was no counterbalancer shaft period, which I though was a real neat trick. But now it's clear--somehow they got away with 1 "multipurpose" counterbalancer as opposed to 2 of them. I still would think there'd be some end-to-end rocking couple vibration and would like to know how they addressed this. The use of this counterbalancer though allowed for a lighter weight crank which improves performance. Although this setup looks like maybe it added a bit of complexity to the valvetrain, putting the work on this multipurpose shaft and driving intermediate shafts to get their cam ratio. That multipurpose shaft sure is expected to do a lot.

 

Cool engine and very amitious design goals, expected to seve both dirt and road duties. I'll be interested to see how it stands up over time.

 

[rkd]

... and figure out how to get the gasoline-filled saddlebags past tech inspection and you might have a heck of an adventure-touring and endurance-riding bike.

 

I think one would be out of his/her FREAKING MIND to fill those saddlebags up with gasolene and the tech inspection guys would be out of their FREAKING MINDS to allow it on the course. Frankly, with due respect, I strongly suspect David's been misled WRT this information.

 

Also, imagine trying to use the bags to store anything else after pulling this stunt ...

[sgendler]

I think one would be out of his/her FREAKING MIND to fill those saddlebags up with gasolene and the tech inspection guys would be out of their FREAKING MINDS to allow it on the course. Frankly, with due respect, I strongly suspect David's been misled WRT this information.

 

Also, imagine trying to use the bags to store anything else after pulling this stunt ...

 

you misunderstand. You don't fill the saddlebags with gasoline, you just use the space between the two layers of material that make up the outer edges of the saddlebag. Assuming they are constructed with that task in mind, they should be safe enough in an accident and it is no different than travelling with a fuel cell on the bike, except that the excess weight is kept low, it doesn't take up much room on the bike, and you have to manually pour the contents into one of the main gas tanks. Capacity is only a couple of litres (3, I think he said) on each side. Filling the saddlebag body would be terrible. All that weight sloshing around so far from the center plane of the bike. Yikes.

 

--sam

[David]

I think one would be out of his/her FREAKING MIND to fill those saddlebags up with gasolene and the tech inspection guys would be out of their FREAKING MINDS to allow it on the course. Frankly, with due respect, I strongly suspect David's been misled WRT this information.

 

Ray, they are made by Hepco and Becker, a well known German company. You can read about them at their web site:

 

http://www.hepco-becker.de

 

They are so new that I didn't find a specific reference to this bag, but there's a similar set of cases with a 3.5 liter liquid capacity per bag.

 

So yeah, it's not an illusion. ABS plastic is tough stuff. It's the same thing you haul around your fuel in for the mower, only this is thicker. Fuel tanks are made out of it, some even for motorcycles.

 

But obviously you're aren't going to use it for drinking water after you've used it for gasoline!

[rkd]

Ok, ok - thanks David (and Sam), I now see what you were talking about. I took this link and let google translate it for me.

 

My apologies to you, David .

[David]

No problem, Ray. It's generally safe to assume I'm full of poop.

[rkd]

I realize I really stuck my foot in "it" earlier in this thread, but may I ask what the differences are between the "regular" 950 Adventure and the "S" model, besides suspension travel and seat height?

[David]

May I ask what the differences are between the "regular" 950 Adventure and the "S" model, besides suspension travel and seat height?

 

I believe that's the only substantive difference. The minor difference is color choice. At the moment, traditional KTM orange is only available on the S model, though I understand it'll move down to the regular model. The regular is now available in silver and black (?). Not sure on that last point, though I know it's available in silver.

 

There are no mechanical differences, and the regular model (which is the one I'd get) is more than adequate for nearly everything. Howard (Toolman) actually sent Jimmy Lewis a question about that, and he agreed that only a few riders in the world could take advantage of the extra travel that the S provides.

 

Price difference is $500.

[Toolman]

David, just to clear up one error. The suspension is made by White Power which is owned by KTM. Works Performance is an American aftermarket shock company that makes a very good product. I have owned many of them on previous dirtbikes. I would not rank them on the same level as Ohlins or White Power though.

 

I concur with the majority of the members: You did a great job putting your thoughts and observations into words. Good photography too!For what it's worth this comes from an old Cycle News assistant editor: me!

 

Toolman

[David]

David, just to clear up one error. The suspension is made by White Power which is owned by KTM. Works Performance is an American aftermarket shock company that makes a very good product. I have owned many of them on previous dirtbikes. I would not rank them on the same level as Ohlins or White Power though.

 

Thanks for the correction, Howard. I misinterpreted the "WP" abbreviation. I'm so used to seeing it here to mean Works Performance. Oh well. And thanks for the compliment.

[FLIronButtRider]

David and Howard, if you want to get techinical about it, they're not called White Power anymore, now it's just WP. They changed their name about 1 1/2 years ago due to marketing problems in the US. Where as in Europe, white is used to denote goodness, it has a bit more of a racial undertone here in the US.

 

Thanks for the write up, David. I'd love to try one out someday as I'm sure it's a much better off road bike than my GS but I do question it's on road and touring abilities in comparison.

[mcoyote]

I'd hit that . If I could afford a second ride, that'd be it.

[Dances With Roads]

Great write up David!

 

Just got off the phone with my oldest riding buddy who got one yesterday. He was uncharacteristically gushy, as he gets a new bike every couple of months.

 

Gotta ride this bike!

[leikam]

I'm curious if anybody has anything to add to David's excellent review now that the new GS has been out for a while and a few more miles have been logged on the KTMs.

 

I've been thinking about the KTM lately and saw one just this past weekend, although I didn't get to talk with the rider, who was clearly a dirt devil.

 

Thanks in advance.

[David]

Michael, a riding buddy of mine (Will Hawkins, Bill's son) has a 950. He also rode his Dad's 1150GS a bunch. I'll shoot you his email address. He can provide a strong comparison.