Brake Rotors...and where did my other post go?

[PilatusDriver]

My bike is still being held hostage by the dealer in regards to massive vibration under braking on my 1200RT. This is the second time in 12k it's been in for the same issue. The first time the warped front rotors were replaced and all was good for about 4k then the exact same problem shows up. The first bout they said they found some runout. This time they say there is none. The frustrating thing is BMW NA has delayed any real work by failing to authorize warranty status with the dealer. I phoned ahead 2.5 WEEKS ago to try and get the ball rolling. My steed has been in the shop now for a week. When I show up - still no action. Apparently the rep from BMW NA is at a conference and out of contact? There is only one guy who can sign off on this? NOT premium support (or brake rotors) from a premium mark.

 

BTW - where did my other thread go?

[David]

BTW - where did my other thread go?

 

http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=hex&Number=693759

[gadgetgaz]

You're not alone in this matter. My R12RT is booked in next week for its 4th set of front brake discs! It behaves exactly as you described.

My run-off is measurably over tolerance and they aren't arguing about it. Seeing as it is the 4th set they are also replacing the front wheel.

[BereIsland]

You've had no luck with those brakes , hope things turn out fine now.

 

Steve

[rocketbunny]

I'm getting some bad vibration using the front brake too. It appeared at around 11k. I'm bringing it in to the dealer for something else this week, so I think I'll ask them to look at it.

 

Let us know how it goes with getting it warrantied.

[duckbubbles]

Hi, Rocketbunny

 

My ST started doing that at just about the same mileage. It started only under heavy braking and has gotten to the point where moderate braking makes the front feel like it's got a lumpy tire. Scheduled in the the brake recall and rotors in two weeks.

 

Frank

[Warren_H]

Noticed the oscillation during moderate braking, above 50 mph, around 12,000 miles while on a trip. Dealer rerouted the ABS cable, changed the banjo bolt on master cylinders and replaced both front rotors and pads under warranty yesterday at 14,700 miles.

 

Although not a recall the Service Manager said it is a warranty item when the oscillation occurs.

[PilatusDriver]

They ended up having to bypass the normal channels just to get something done with this rascal. In the end they replaced the front wheel, rotors, tires and axle. They put my old stuff on the new one they robbed and the issue followed the parts suprisingly enough.

 

They also did the bulletins on the banjo bolt, resrictor and re-routing the sensor wire.

 

All in all I'm Back!

[PilatusDriver]

Let us know how it goes with getting it warrantied.

 

That is the issue, it progesses from annoying to dangerous in my opinion. They did warranty the work and parts but of course claim "this is the first one of these we've seen".

[steve539]

Mine is in right now as well. They are going to replace the rotors once BMW approves. It started at only 5K miles. The bike has been there almost a week and no definite answers on the cause or the fix.

[BobsST]

My ST w/ 4200 miles also has an extreme shudder when moderate to hard on the brakes. On other bikes when I've had a warped rotor it was most noticealbe just before I came to a complete stop which is not the case here so I'm wondering if this is really a rotor problem. I've got three dealers within a 100 miles so I'll start calling to see who gives the best reaction. So far the Vin #'s I've seen listed for recalls do not include mine. (ZM3XXXX)

[steve539]

Update: BMW has approved replacement of the two front rotors which is to happen this week.

[PilatusDriver]

I've got 100 miles on my 3rd set of rotors and second front wheel and the haven't warped yet!

[St0nkingByte]

A question for you guys who have had this problem, especially more than once...

 

Does it creep up on you with more vibration when braking over time or does it come on suddenly? The reason I ask is my braking isn't as smooth as it once was but its not exactly scary or feeling unsafe to me at this point. I'm just wondering if it will get worse over time.

 

I've got my one big trip for this year coming up in three weeks and you guys have me nervous.

[Warren_H]

Happen only once, I noticed it suddenly when braking hard on I10 in Florida. It was not light yet and I saw deer near the fence line. It makes sense that the rotors didn't warp all at once.

 

Enjoy your trip, it stopped fine all the way back to CA, no warning lights.

[skinny]

A question for you guys who have had this problem, especially more than once...

 

Does it creep up on you with more vibration when braking over time or does it come on suddenly? The reason I ask is my braking isn't as smooth as it once was but its not exactly scary or feeling unsafe to me at this point. I'm just wondering if it will get worse over time.

 

I've got my one big trip for this year coming up in three weeks and you guys have me nervous.

 

Mine showed up over a short time at about 8000 miles. It started as a barely noticeable vibration when braking from above 60 or 70 mph and within a few hundred miles became bad enough on downhill braking to make me think stop using the front brake. It only takes .005"-.010" runnout to cause the problem. The new front brake setup has a fixed caliper and a floating disc that apparently gets into a harmonic vibration if the disk isn't flat. There are enought posts here and on other DB's to confirm that it's not an isolated occurence.

[bud123]

my 12 gs also has brake problems. The dealer says the rotors are in spec. 4mm-5mm and does not recognize the problem. are your dealers acting stupid? or are they helpful and concerned?

[skinny]

my 12 gs also has brake problems. The dealer says the rotors are in spec. 4mm-5mm and does not recognize the problem. are your dealers acting stupid? or are they helpful and concerned?

 

 

4mm is 0.156". Maybe you meant 0.4mm (0.0156") which is 3 times the allowable runnout per BMW repair Cd. Anything over 0.005" is out of spec and will cause problems. The problem seems to be that some dealers either don't use a dial indicator to measure the runnout, or they don't believe that anything less than a visible wavyness will cause the vibration. One of my disks measured about .005" out and the other about 0.010"-0.012" and this was enough to cause a severe vibration when using the front brake. There are only 2 things that can cause this... a warped rotor or a wheel that has an un-even mounting surface (which will warp the rotor). The explanation as to why so many of the new brake setups are warping is open to debate, but from my experience, changing the discs cured the problem and so far with about 10k on the new disks, everything is OK....

[steve539]

Mine seemed to occur rather suddenly. By that I mean over the course of 1500 miles (this was during a 13 day trip of 3500 miles). Then at times it seemed worse than others.

[Warren_H]

are your dealers acting stupid? or are they helpful and concerned?

 

My Dealer BMW of Ventura County was helpful and concerned - fixed under warranty without hassle.

[Rob]

I comnented on my brakes last fall. My dealer mentioned recently that the rotors are in and I told him that I'll have them replaced at the 18k service.

 

I haven't noticed any differance in stopping distances. Just the studdering of the front rotors.

 

HTH,

[rocketbunny]

Update -

 

While the bike was in for the 12k service, a tech took it for a test ride to check on my "pulsing under high-speed braking" problem. They are replacing the front rotors under warrarnty. They had already ordered the rotors by the time I went to pick it up. They'll be installed in a week or two when I go in to finish up some insurance work.

 

I also had the ABS recall work done.

[steve539]

Just had rotors replace with banjo bolt, etc. at 6K. All covered under warranty. Good luck.

[BobsST]

Mines in now for the recalls and most likely rotors. Sooo nice to deal w/ BMW rather than Ducati. With the Duc this would have taken months to resolve......if ever.

[Wink]

Same thing for me. Got my '05 RT 4 months ago and now have 14K miles on it. Took it in for the 12K service and asked them to see why my brakes had a shudder. (I didn't stop to check this at a dealer before because I was on an 11K mile trip) The dealer ordered new front rotors for me. The shudder did seem like it came on rather quickly. I wonder what the problem really is? Wheel? ABS? Rotors? I will keep checking back here and post what I find out too.

Thanks.

[BobsST]

The runout on one of my rotors was twice what it should be so I'm assuming .010"+. BMW told the dealer to do rotors first, mount them on the wheel and then double check to make sure that the wheel is true. Rotors are supposed to be in tomorrow or Wednesday.

[jfpoulos]

My problem with vibration in front brake was caused (possibly) by the chock hitting the rotor while trailering.

Check your rotor hitting you chock if you trailer your bike.

May be your cause of "warped disks".

[HandyAndy]

jfpoulos.

 

You trailered you BMW?

I think it's trying to teach you a lesson!!!

[BobsST]

AAAAARRRGGGHHH! No rotors in the U.S. Had to be back ordered from the motherland.

[STL RT Rider]

Yikes! I have the same warped front rotors on my GS with only 5,xxx miles on it. I haven't had it to the dealer yet. Hope I don't have any problems getting them replaced under warranty.

 

Problem is, my dealer is 120 miles away, so I'll probably wait until 6,000 mi. service to bring it in. In the mean time, that shuddering from the front at speed is a little un-nerving!

[BobsST]

Update - new front rotors and pads done under warranty at the 6k service. All is well again!

[motorbob]

Can someone explain why rotors are warped at such low mileage. Is it a bad batch of rotors or bad batch of riders ?

With strong engine braking (06 RT) brakes have it easy.

Brake overheating is unlikely. Any ideas ?

[BobsST]

The recall notice mentioned replacement with a slightly thicker rotor. Maybe it was a bad batch of rotors or a weight savings idea that just didn't pan out. Spec for run out is < .005". One of the rotors was >.010". I agree though, with a 12:1 compression ratio who needs brakes?

[bmwmick]

The recall notice mentioned replacement with a slightly thicker rotor. Maybe it was a bad batch of rotors or a weight savings idea that just didn't pan out. Spec for run out is < .005". One of the rotors was >.010". I agree though, with a 12:1 compression ratio who needs brakes?

 

Bob,

The ABS recall was to replace the banjo bolt on all the R1200RT, ST, GS and K1200S, R (within a certain VIN range) but only the K1200R got new rotors. The originals were 4.5mm and the new ones are 5.0mm.

They mentioned something about countering the 'increase in volume in the brake system' from very high temperatures. Again, this only applied to the Tokico brake system on the K1200R.

 

Mick

[Lemans]

Had my first opportunity to get my new (to me) 05 RT up in the foothills today, and push the pace a little. I'm sure I have warped rotors. Surprising at only 4K miles. Does anyone have experience with aftermarket rotors (e.g. Wave) for the RT? It might be worth some bucks to avoid the warranty and availability hassels with the dealer, and still have to deal with the issue after another few thousand miles.

[Fran]

I would have them replaced under warranty, you don't have to wait till 6K unless the dealer is a zillion miles away. Let BMW pay for the fix, why should you? Mine on my 05 were replaced at 6K, had to wait a day for the parts to arrive. According to the tech its been a fairly common issue and the folks in the Fatherland have been made aware of the situation.

Fran

[rjdick]

This sounds like the rearend bearing issue on the LT's. BMW would fix them when they went south, but never did come out and state, the a bad batch was a-foot and issue a recall. After reading these, I'm going to have to pay more attention to mine in the morning (05 with 9400mi).

RD

[sisu]

I also have a high speed brake shudder. It started to come on at about 10K, I now have 13K. The dealer checked out the discs and said they were within spec. It does not seem to be a problem at low speeds. This sounds like an "issue" with R12RTs.

[St0nkingByte]

I'm taking my RT in to have the front rotors replaced tomorrow. The service guy at my dealer said they've seen it on about a dozen 05 bikes that share these brake rotors. They called the condition 'thick-thin' and specifically said it wasn't 'warping'. They told me they think it was a bad batch or a bad production run of these disks and they haven't seen it happen again after replacement. They also were surprised that I had it so bad at just 5,500 miles, said I was the earliest incidence of it they had seen.

[Chris1]

I just had my rotors replaced by BMW of Denver, they said that this was only the second set that they have seen, ( yeh right). I had about 7000 miles on my R1200RT when the pulsing started.

Braking feels like new now and it only took 1 hour to replace the rotors and 1 week to get the parts.

[BobsST]

I also have a high speed brake shudder. It started to come on at about 10K, I now have 13K. The dealer checked out the discs and said they were within spec. It does not seem to be a problem at low speeds. This sounds like an "issue" with R12RTs.

 

Hey sisu - the symptoms you describe are identical to my ST except that it started at 5,000 miles. Any run out > .005" is out of spec so you might consider having it checked again or having another dealer check it. When I went to the dealer I took a copy of this thread along to 'enlighten' the service department because mine was also the first case they had ever heard of.

[sisu]

Thanks for the input. My brake shudder started to happen toward the end of a 7,500 trip. No problem at the beginning, but progressively worse after 10K. Maybe I have one of the "problem" 2005 models.

[Richard_Spag]

Although not directly linked to warped rotors this may be interest/worry(delete as appropriate!)to some.

 

I have just been informed by my dealer that my 24,000 mile (1 year) old rear disc is at its lower service thickness and will need replacing. All my miles are motorway miles - so the mileage in no way reflects the amount of brake usage. This is a little annoying since it costs approx £180 plus labour to replace. Apparently it is not a warranty issue - but is a wear item! Presumably I should budget for a new disc each year. I will write to BMW and see what they have to say about it. If the advert claims of 50% improved disc life for the brakes on the 1150/1200 are true - does this mean that BMW would normally expect an 16,000 mile service life for discs on older models? Crazy .

 

Cheers

 

Richard

[Boffin]

Although not directly linked to warped rotors this may be interest/worry(delete as appropriate!)to some.

 

I have just been informed by my dealer that my 24,000 mile (1 year) old rear disc is at its lower service thickness and will need replacing. All my miles are motorway miles - so the mileage in no way reflects the amount of brake usage. This is a little annoying since it costs approx £180 plus labour to replace. Apparently it is not a warranty issue - but is a wear item! Presumably I should budget for a new disc each year. I will write to BMW and see what they have to say about it. If the advert claims of 50% improved disc life for the brakes on the 1150/1200 are true - does this mean that BMW would normally expect an 16,000 mile service life for discs on older models? Crazy .

 

Cheers

 

Richard

 

my 37K rear disc is well within service limits, though the fronts are getting close. When the time comes I shall be fitting aftermarket rotors which are much cheaper than the OEM ones.

 

Andy

[Richard_Spag]

Who produces after market discs for the R series?

[Roberto]

Galfer makes the rotors to fit. I just installed two sets, one on the rt and one on the gt. Same for both (06's)

[bmwdavid]

I wonder if this an issue with only 05 bikes. There doesn't seem to be any responses from anyone owning an 06. I have a 05 rt with only 2700 miles and will have to wait and see.

[Boffin]

Who produces after market discs for the R series?

 

As stated, Galfer do both solid and wave discs, EBC also do discs for the 1150. M and P sell them for £83 a side.

 

Andy

[russg]

Who produces after market discs for the R series?

 

As stated, Galfer do both solid and wave discs, EBC also do discs for the 1150. M and P sell them for £83 a side.

 

Andy

 

Has anyone tried the Wave discs on an R12RT? I hear great things about the wave disks and will seriously consider them if I still one the bike when it needs new ones.

[Boffin]

Has anyone tried the Wave discs on an R12RT? I hear great things about the wave disks and will seriously consider them if I still one the bike when it needs new ones.

 

I was discussing these with a local bike dealer on Friday. He pointed out that you are giving away about 50% of your braking area. They improve water clearance at the expense of less friction surface area. That said, on many modern bikes the brakes are so strong and often fierce, that the loss of area improves feel.

 

Personally, I would pass on wave brakes.

 

Andy