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Brake Rotors...and where did my other post go?


PilatusDriver

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My second set of rotors was installed today under warranty at 23,032 miles. The first set was replaced at 14,665 miles I noticed the problem at just under 12,000 miles in FL during a trip.

 

The tech told me the pads were re-designed since they replaced the first set. He said they have a smaller surface area to keep the rotors cooler to prevent warping. The inner and outer pads both have three slots that are offset from each other. The insides are “full contact” the pads on the outsides taper down at 20 degrees for the last 1/2 inch. Judging from the coverage of the rotors the pads don’t appear to be any narrower.

 

Unless footing might be bad I'm a left foot down right foot on brake pedal rider - don't want to revive that thread.

 

Food for thought:

“Another cause of warping is when the disc is overheated and the vehicle is stopped. When keeping the brakes applied, the area where the pads contact the disc will cause uneven cooling and lead to warping.”

Source: Wikipedia Search Term: “Disc Brake”

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Hi, there.

 

I'm seeking some reassurance regarding the brake problems being discussed on this forum. I'm new to BMWs, having recently purchased a very low milage(2700miles)R1200RT in excellent condition. My primary concern is that the problems appear to occur at around the 6000mile mark and I'm unlikely to acheive this before the 2 year Warranty expires. Do BMW have a healthy attitude towards retrospective warranty claims? I intend to write to BMW directly to clarify the situation, however is the brake rotor issue a recognised 'recall' problem?

 

''I never worry about action, only inaction'' - Winston Churchill.

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however is the brake rotor issue a recognised 'recall' problem?

 

According to the service manager it's a known problem acknowledged by BMW. To the best of my knowledge BMW has not sent out a recall letter. They replace the rotors as needed. You might want to buy the re-designed pads as preventative maintenance to avoid warping the rotors.

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Thanks, Warren-H,

 

Do you think BMW would want to provide the pads free of charge to avert a disk claim down the line? Do you have an opinion on my retrosprective claim proposal?

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I doubt a dealer would comp the pads. My guess is if the rotors don't go bad during what's left of your warranty BMW won't replace them.

 

FYI - When mine warped the stopping distance remained the same, I never felt the bike was unsafe. Your other option is to take two weeks off and ride, see if you can warp them. grin.gif

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What build date R12RT's are affected by brake rotor problems? Mine has just turned over 15000km with no brake problems.

Is mine a late bloomer or am I going to be lucky enough to never have the problem?

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I am starting to get a brake disc shudder at 1400 miles on my ST! It started today when I hit the brakes coming to a stop it shudders then it subsides as you are at the end of a stop. Maybe it was due to the extra weight riding two up that brought the problem out.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi,

 

Just wanting to add my bike to the list, 05 1200RT, dropped it in for it's 10,000k service and mentioned that I was getting a shudder when braking, just received a phone call that they need to order new Rotors as the originals are warped so they will need the bike for another day.

 

thanks

Kanga

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Hi,

 

Just wanting to add my bike to the list, 05 1200RT, dropped it in for it's 10,000k service and mentioned that I was getting a shudder when braking, just received a phone call that they need to order new Rotors as the originals are warped so they will need the bike for another day.

 

thanks

Kanga

 

Had my '05 1200RT in for a service at 10k and upon test ride the dealer noted a shudder when braking. The rotors are being replaced under warranty. Of course, that was a week and a half ago, I should probably call them and find out where they ordered the parts from....

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In the end they replaced the front wheel, rotors, tires and axle. They put my old stuff on the new one they robbed and the issue followed the parts suprisingly enough

I didn't see another post about this so flame away if you have to, but does anyone else find it rather disturbing that they'd rob parts from a NEW ride? eek.gif

 

Don't get me wrong, I think it's great that he's back in the saddle, that shows good customer service on their part. thumbsup.gif However, what does that do for the next guy walking in to buy the one that they robbed the parts from? confused.gif

 

Ok, pretend it's you and then think about it again..... blush.gif

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  • 7 months later...
St0nkingByte

I'm sort of reviving this thread, to keep it fresh for next time...

 

I've recently had my rotors replaced for a second time. First was at 5,000 this time at 10,000 miles. The first time the manager of the dealership came out and told me they thought it was a bad batch of disks. This time the service manager just didn't know and actually replaced them on my word alone, they scheduled the service without even test riding it themselves! So now I'm good again but I noticed the bill was $454, I'd hate to pay that every 5,000 miles just to have brakes that work right.

 

If this happens again I'm going to insist on a fix that involves more than simply replacing the disks. I suspect I'll have a pretty good case for it by the third time. If present trends continue (they often don't) this will happen two more times before I'm out of the warranty period. I'll yell at BMWNA myself if I have to, I'm used to it, I yell at vendors about poor service all the time at work thumbsup.gif

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If I recall correctly, this issue was corrected by replacing the wheel as well as the discs. I could be wrong but you may want investigate further.

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If I recall correctly, this issue was corrected by replacing the wheel as well as the discs. I could be wrong but you may want investigate further.
I'm not sure what the mounting arrangement is like on a 1200 but if the rotors bolt directly to the wheel or carrier then unless the mounting surface is perfectly flat the rotors will warp over time (they get hot and then as they cool they try to conform to the non-flat mounting surface or carrier, causing them to warp.) In fact I've experienced this myself (wasn't a BMW though), a couple of sets of warped rotors replaced under warranty until the shop figured out what was going on and had the mounting surface on the wheel milled perfectly flat. No problems after that.

 

For some reason with every new model BMW seems to get further and further away from the full floating rotors present on the 1100 series and moved to various semi-floating arrangements, don't know why. Fully floating rotors won't warp (unless they are very poorly made or very heavily abused.)

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duckbubbles

I suppose I'm with you on this one. I am on my second set of stock discs. The originals got pretty bad before I had them replaced. The replacements got pretty bad too, so I tried some after market rotors. Galfer wave rotors, they looked real cool, but vibrated right from the start. I put up with that for a while and looked at the wheel.

Put the wheel on a surface plate to check the disc mounting perches and there was nothing to see. I tried a new tire, a different wheel and went back to the stock discs again.

That was acceptable for a while, but now the pulsing is back. I had the opportunity to coast downhill at a couple of mph with the engine off, just using residual braking (approaching a ferry ramp) and could feel the pulse every revolution.

I've started the process to do something about them again. Like you, I don't know what to do anymore, and then the warranty will be done. Didn't have luck with the after market so far, either.

So far I've tried stock pads, after market pads, stock discs, after market discs, two different wheels and three different tires. I can't think of anything else that could possibly do anything except the calipers, and I doubt that they would cause this problem.

Any suggestions? I definitely want to keep this bike!

 

Frank

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I'm not sure what the mounting arrangement is like on a 1200 but if the rotors bolt directly to the wheel
the rotors bolt directly to the wheel
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PhillyFlash

Has anyone with an '07 RT with the new non-servo brake system accumulated enough miles yet to see if this problem still occurs on the newer models?

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No, but after following this thread I decided to have a look at my rear rotor. When I turned the wheel it seemed to be sticking in one spot. Put a dial indicator on it and am getting about .010 runout, max according to manual is .004.

This is a 07 with 1100 miles. Dealer will be looking at it next week.

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No, but after following this thread I decided to have a look at my rear rotor. When I turned the wheel it seemed to be sticking in one spot. Put a dial indicator on it and am getting about .010 runout, max according to manual is .004.

This is a 07 with 1100 miles. Dealer will be looking at it next week.

My '07 ST with only 800 miles on it has a spot on the rear rotor that drags a little but not enough to actually stop the wheel.
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My '07 ST with only 800 miles on it has a spot on the rear rotor that drags a little but not enough to actually stop the wheel.

 

Ok, now I'm a little concerned. Just for grins, I checked my rear disc immediately after completing about a 20 mile freeway ride. It was too hot to touch with my bare finger. Both front discs were fine. I'm assuming I have a problem. No?

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Does anyone know why BMW moved away from the floating disk? I thought that was a great design, especially for soft alloy wheels. I never had a warping / brake wear problem with the 850R.

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duckbubbles
Does anyone know why BMW moved away from the floating disk? I thought that was a great design, especially for soft alloy wheels. I never had a warping / brake wear problem with the 850R.

 

I think a good part of the reason is weight reduction, and possible brake efficiency. The similar reason for the ZTL brakes on Buell. This is a new style for Brembo and I've seen it on other makes, too.

 

Frank

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Does anyone know why BMW moved away from the floating disk? I thought that was a great design, especially for soft alloy wheels. I never had a warping / brake wear problem with the 850R.

 

 

RT1200's have floating disks...the calipers are rigid mounted...

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RT1200's have floating disks...the calipers are rigid mounted...

confused.gif Humm. The rotors on the RT seem fairly rigid to me. On the 850, I can move the rotors several mm.

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RT1200's have floating disks...the calipers are rigid mounted...

confused.gif Humm. The rotors on the RT seem fairly rigid to me. On the 850, I can move the rotors several mm.

 

The front disks on the RT have wave washers that allow the disk to float on shoulder screws...calipers are fixed.

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Quote:

 

Quote:

RT1200's have floating disks...the calipers are rigid mounted...

 

 

Humm. The rotors on the RT seem fairly rigid to me. On the 850, I can move the rotors several mm.

 

 

 

"The front disks on the RT have wave washers that allow the disk to float on shoulder screws...calipers are fixed."

 

Hmmm... I didn't think my discs where floating type.

According to the spec sheet the caliper is floating not the disc.

 

http://www.bmw-motorrad.ca/flash_content/index.html

 

Sorry, you'll have to go to the motorcycle section, find the RT then look at the spec pdf file.

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Not according to the way I read it. It's the rear that is floating -

 

Brake, front. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Twin disc, floating brake discs, ø 320 mm, four-piston fixed calipers

 

Brake, rear . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Single disc brake, ø 265 mm, double-piston floating caliper

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Opps! Right you are!! My mistake. I should have read it I guess! Doh!! Sorry.

 

I put full floating Ferodo cast iron discs on my GSXR years ago and they made a lot of noise. Jingle Gangle over bumps at low speed. I just thought I would have heard something from the the RT.

 

Makes me wonder how they warped on early RT's. For floating discs they sure don't move much. I'll have to grab a hold of one tonight just to see how much they move.

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PilatusDriver
In the end they replaced the front wheel, rotors, tires and axle. They put my old stuff on the new one they robbed and the issue followed the parts suprisingly enough

I didn't see another post about this so flame away if you have to, but does anyone else find it rather disturbing that they'd rob parts from a NEW ride? eek.gif

 

Don't get me wrong, I think it's great that he's back in the saddle, that shows good customer service on their part. thumbsup.gif However, what does that do for the next guy walking in to buy the one that they robbed the parts from? confused.gif

 

Ok, pretend it's you and then think about it again..... blush.gif

 

They swapped the old parts to the new bike to see if the parts they removed contained the issue. They did not leave those bad ones on the new bike. They sent me on my way with the new parts to get me up and running, ordered replacements for the new bike.

 

Pretty reasonable approach to help me out I thought!

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St0nkingByte

OK I know exactly how this problem happens.

 

As I posted previously just a few weeks ago I had by rotors replaced for a second time at 10,000 miles, first was at 5k.

 

Yesterday I was completing a four day trip to Oregon, the brakes had been absurdly good the entire trip. I mean really rock solid feel like the hand of God is stopping the bike. Man I love the servo brakes. Anyway...

 

On the way home we were on the roads that lead away from Mt. Rainer and it had stopped raining, the roads had dried out and we had one last little stretch of minor twisties before we hit the suburbs and made our way home. We pulled over and let all the cages go by then we railed through those twisties.

 

Unfortunately at the end of four days of seemingly non-stop riding I was kind of tired and my entry speeds were sucking greatly. I was also misjudging the distances to the next set to twisties a little bit and goosing it too much. This meant I was braking alot and a little hard. No sweat the RT can do it and the brakes were working wonderfully, smooth as anything. Then immediately after the twisties we stopped to let our slower companions catch up. While we were waiting it started pouring rain, like crazy hard rain and it was really cold. About 45F air temp but the rain was cold with a little hail mixed in. This pouring rain lasted for about five minutes and we were soaked. Once the rain slowed a little we took off, plowing through the standing water on the road for a couple minutes then just tooling along in the remaining drizzle. All well and good until a couple miles later I get to the next town and apply brake. The shudder is back. Yes, after just 2,000 miles its back, just as bad as it was before and it came back in the space of maybe 20 minutes. I'm positive it was due to the really cold rain dumping on the very hot disks combined with the irregular mounting surface that others have mentioned.

 

So I'll be contacting the dealer again tomorrow seeking a permanent fix.

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Slumgullion

I have been reading this post with great interest in that I am on my 4th set of front rotors and Yes they are also warped! I had a discussion with the service manager at my dealer and it is his opinion that it directly related to the servo assist system. The servo is creating excessive heat and thus warping the rotors. Case in point the front brake construction of the S is almost identical to the ST but the S does not have servo; no problems with warping with the R1200S bikes. I have my second set of after market rotors on with the same results! I wonder if I tried some racing rotors that were built to withstand extreme braking and thus much more heat if that might solve the problem? Any thoughts?

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Firefight911
I have been reading this post with great interest in that I am on my 4th set of front rotors and Yes they are also warped! I had a discussion with the service manager at my dealer and it is his opinion that it directly related to the servo assist system. The servo is creating excessive heat and thus warping the rotors. Case in point the front brake construction of the S is almost identical to the ST but the S does not have servo; no problems with warping with the R1200S bikes. I have my second set of after market rotors on with the same results! I wonder if I tried some racing rotors that were built to withstand extreme braking and thus much more heat if that might solve the problem? Any thoughts?

 

I doubt this. The reason being is that the only way I can see any excess heat generated would be from greater clamping force over greater time. This would manifest itself in more abrupt braking with shorter stopping distance, up to the limitation of traction.

 

All other things being equal, where one bike with and one bike without servo, equal braking distance, and equal load, there would be similar braking force and therefore, equal heat generation.

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duckbubbles

I have to agree with Phil on this. You are stopping the same or similar mass with identical calipers and discs. The same pressure is required at the caliper to stop equally. The servo brakes seemed to be abrupt until I adapted some and the banjo bolt mod was done.

Mine is scheduled in for the shop to do some measuring to try to figure out what is wrong now. I've checked all I can and I believe that the wheel is ok, although the shop manager says he suspects the wheel. I'll take a new wheel if they decide I need one. Anybody with RT's having this problem? I've heard of it with GS's and ST's.

 

Frank

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Well it seems my 4000 mile 06 1200RT is developing a problem with the front brakes. Braking coming down a mountain in Norway last week I noticed vibration on the brake lever. This was at around 60/70mph and moderate braking. Under normal light breaking it doesn’t seem to manifest itself.

 

I’ve had brake problems in the past with cast iron discs that pulsed cased by thick/thin corrosion of the disc material, but that pulsing was evident all the time and probably worse at slow speed due to the callipers grabbing the discs as they rotated to a thicker section. My brake vibration doesn’t fell anything like that.

 

As for runout, well it’s certainly not a good thing, but I’ve measured run out to a good few thou on older (BMW) bikes and it’s never been a problem. I guess I’ll have to go see the dealer soon and see what he has to say frown.gif

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I ran across a bulletin that points to a stacking of parts and assembly tolerances leading to unintended disc wear.

 

I have an '05 with 20K miles and haven't run into this problem--yet. Based on the bulletin, it appears that BMW is well aware of the problem and is making adjustments to prevent the defect.

 

Here is part of the bulletin:

 

Subject: Pulsating front brakes (brake judder)

Date: June 2007

Bulletin # 34 003 07 (034)

 

Service and Technical

A combination of unfavorable tolerances of brake discs, front wheel and ABS sensor ring and/or incorrect assembly can result in an increase in runout of the front brake discs. When the motorcycle has covered a considerable distance(empirical data indicates approximately 5,000 to 12,500 miles), very shallow recesses are worn into the brake discs. The effect is perceptible to the customer

as pulsating brakes, and is particularly noticeable under gentle braking.

 

Model: All Models with twin-disc brakes

The individual part tolerances have been minimized, along with checking of the front wheel assembly in regards to the brake discs.

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St0nkingByte
I ran across a bulletin that points to a stacking of parts and assembly tolerances leading to unintended disc wear.

 

I have an '05 with 20K miles and haven't run into this problem--yet. Based on the bulletin, it appears that BMW is well aware of the problem and is making adjustments to prevent the defect.

 

Here is part of the bulletin:

 

Subject: Pulsating front brakes (brake judder)

Date: June 2007

Bulletin # 34 003 07 (034)

 

Service and Technical

A combination of unfavorable tolerances of brake discs, front wheel and ABS sensor ring and/or incorrect assembly can result in an increase in runout of the front brake discs. When the motorcycle has covered a considerable distance(empirical data indicates approximately 5,000 to 12,500 miles), very shallow recesses are worn into the brake discs. The effect is perceptible to the customer

as pulsating brakes, and is particularly noticeable under gentle braking.

 

Model: All Models with twin-disc brakes

The individual part tolerances have been minimized, along with checking of the front wheel assembly in regards to the brake discs.

 

Ah that bulletin is new since I've had mine replaced. I've got mine shuddering after just 2,000 miles this time. Maybe this next time I'll get it fixed right? I still think rapid cooling by very cold rain has something to do with making it happen faster.

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I had the same problem with very bad vibes/shuddering from the front discs on my 2005 R1200RT. After the same problem developed with the replacement rotors (5,000kms) the BMW dealer received approval from BMW Australia to replace the front wheel, rotors and pads. The brakes now feel better than ever! I have issues with my ABS, but that's another story.

It appears that some front wheels were imperfect with mounting points for the rotors out by 1 to 2mm. What apparently happens over time, with the rotors heating up and cooling down (some times cooling down suddenly) the rotors eventually conform to the uneven mounting points on the wheel and that's when you get those bad, bad, bad, bad vibrations!

Suggest you get your front wheel replaced - under warranty! thumbsup.gifthumbsup.gifthumbsup.gif

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2006 17,880 miles - dealer replaced pads and rotors. I am worried that I will be out of warranty next time this issues happens...... I vote for new brakes, ROTORS, WHEELS, for the life of the bike since this braking system has been discontinued AND THEY HAVEN'T SOLVED THE PROBLEM...STILL THINK THIS IS THE BEST TOURING BIKE MADE....GAR

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For what it's worth: I am going in this morning for my 5th set of rotors (27K miles) and second front wheel on a 2005 GS. What I have learned through my own diagnostics is that it is always (on my bike) the right rotor (only) that is warped/whatever. I know this because I remove the right rotor, block the right caliper with a shop-built shim (securely locked in place with tie-wraps, then go for a ride. No pulsating! I am told by my dealer that the first replacement wheel was from the same bad batch as my original front wheel. We will see.

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Gadgetgaz,

 

Can you expand alittle on your brake problem. I am now experiencing the dreaded brake 'judder' and am seeking a solution. My bike is out of warranty, but has just done just 7500 miles, the problem appeared at 5500 miles whilst on a european holiday - must be those French aand spanish roads!.

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